Age of Sigmar General /aosg/

How are Chaos Dwarves on the tabletop performance wise?

I have an idea for a theme army - "renegade dwarves", using regular Dorf models converted to be more run down and use Chaos Dwarf rules but I hate having models that just sit on a shelf and lose every game.

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Here

We

Go

4th for slaanesh

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Repostan because, holy shit, look at that warscroll.

>>52397596
No-one cares.

>>52397552
How do you lose games with Dwarves? Just use their cannons and table people. What are your oppenents?

>>52397596
I care, go on.

>>52397651
Oh look, another box of random shit. And nothing particularly new or rarely posted. How exciting. How interesting.

>>52397639
I don't know, haven't started yet. Doing research before spending money because I'm not a fucking tard.

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>>52397677
Your jealousy is like fuel to me

>>52397596
I care a little bit, do whatever.

>>52397596
>>52397651
>>52397707
>attentionwhoring
Is that you tried to promote your shitty channel in discord?

>>52397707
>jealousy
>wasting money on GeeDub's shitty terrain instead of pretty much anything on the market
lel

>>52397632
I wanna see what other crazy combinations the guy has bought, so fuck off.
So far it makes no sense, but I'm still weirdly intrigued.

>>52397754
This is just the more pathetic version of camwhoring where it's the whore that's wasting their money. Kill yourself, he's just wasting posts.

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>>52397752
>"wasting" money
Must suck to be a poorfag

>>52397618
whelp

Saving all my money from the upcoming paycheck. Really wish we could get the pricing already.

>>52397293
>black basecoat
>base ceramite white
>glaze guilliman blue
I did 2-3 layers to build strong color, especially in recesses
>light wash druchii violet
Target the recesses and blend it out at the edges. 2 light applications
>touch up with guilliman blue again
Leave purple in recesses, you should have a faint violet on the flatter areas that fades near the edge
>drybrush wrack white
>drybrush bahharoth blue
Definitely a favorite color of mine, hit all the edges and swirl the brush long the flat areas to create some depth. Super dry drybrush
>re-establish wrack white with a drybrush on the sharpest edges
OPTIONAL
>gloss varnish such as 'ardcoat
I haven't done that yet as I'm still debating on it

>>52397809
>$50 for cheap plastic boxes and barrels
>boasting about being a retard
lel

>>52397809
What are you planning with this combination of stuff? Or is a combination of AoS, 40K and scenery projects that you just bought all at once?

>>52397809
With som conversions you can make tanks out of those containers anon.

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Next up

>>52397707
buying stuff = not impressed
model and paint entire army post pics = impressed

>>52397945
>x95 tyranids
>Two start collecting skellies
(for what purpose?)
>All that other random shit
Wew that's like two years worth of stuff (or three if you go slow down he river like me), why did you do that? can you paint all of this at once?

>>52397618
I'm telling you every release pushes the power creep a little further. By the time they get to Aelves it'll be 10 attacks hitting and wounding on 2+, rend -3, damage 3, 2+ save, 10 wounds, teleport anywhere any time ability for the unit and a friend unit.

I feel bad for fyreslayers and other early releases because they cant compete with these new rules.

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>>52398051
>Two start collecting skellies
Three, actually

>all this shit all at once

have fun getting burnt out and never finishing any of it

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Speaking of three, here's a 3rd imperial sector

>>52398058
To be fair, it's a special character, not some generic scrub. I mean, look at Alarielle or Archaon...

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And thats the bottom of the box

>>52397535
Grotbag Scuttlers are mentioned in the last WD regarding the Kharadron. So, soon?

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Final photo with everything together

>>52397868
New edition of 40k coming next year. I wanted to get a Blood Angels army in preparation. Also building a 40k table to use.

Tyranids are for spider gobbo conversions, planning an entire force with goblins riding spidernids.

Finishing my Stormcast army and I wanted to get the Death special characters for an End Times display.

>>52398051
>why did you do that? can you paint all of this at once?
Starting a new job in a new city, I will have a lot of time to paint

>>52398464
I'd have waited for the new 40K Sector Mechanicum(?) kits to be released, they look like they're gonna be awesome and would look more interesting on table than 3 Sector Imperialis. Good luck with assembling and painting all that stuff though, sadly all of those boxes put together are not even a third of my backlog.

>>52398510
Im planning another order for those and the new dwarf zeppelins

>>52398554
Noice. Are you building the table out of Realm of Battle boards or are you going for the MDF route?

Oh, and if you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living? Are you that lawyer anon who bought the whole Extremis Chamber?

>>52398294
POWER CREEP! POWER CREEP! (even though stormcasts got-slightly-weaker overall)

>>52398058
Beginning to agree - my classic greenskins are looking more and more lackluster

>>52398616
Havent decided yet. Leaning toward the ROB sector imperialis boards but if you have any recommendations for alternatives I would certainly take a look

I dont want to give away too much personal information but I'll tell you I work in STEM

>Are you that lawyer anon who bought the whole Extremis Chamber?
No but I remember that guy. I was really jealous that he had that much disposable income, made me push for a new career path.

Extremis Lawyer-kun if you're out there... thank you

>>52398703
>but if you have any recommendations for alternatives I would certainly take a look

Eh, I tend to build all of my boards out of MDF and other building materials so I can't really recommend a product. The ROB SI isn't bad though, you pay for the convenience of having it all made and textured for you and they're pretty light and easy to store. I think I used around 15 kilos of filler (spackle for you yanks) on my last board and with MDF you're always worried it'll warp. I look forward to seeing your progress, post it in /WIP/ or something.

>>52398703
>tfw 23 and starting degree in Petroleum Engineering

Give me strength STEM bro, chemistry is hard but I know I can do it

>>52398775
Tips for success in STEM:

1. Dont live in Canada
2. Be female

>>52398794
>don't live in Canada

Well I got one thing down, I'm in Oklahoma

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>a group of skaven players block your path

>>52398834
What happens in Oklahoma?

>>52398703
Dont get a RoB board

It looks fine on the website, but its bad for rolling on, and it's extremely busy. You dont want the board itself to drown out your minis and buildings

I'd recommend either getting a mat, or building a board yourself

>>52397734
*Is that you who

No. I'm the discord guy. Speaking of! Discord for all things warhammer, for when the thread is dead or you want a faster conversation!

https://discord.gg/Zeh7nhC

>>52398888
It's quiet, and in its own bubble separated from the insanity of the rest of the nation. And then tornados

>>52398907
I've been looking at battle mats

First I need a decent size/height table to put it on

>>52398438
They are, apparently, "natural" enemies with the Kharadron, often fighting them. Some things always stay the same, it seems.

>>52398794
>Don't live in Canada
I-I'm not smart so I wouldn't do well anyway.

Are there any other warscrolls for the new Overlords?

>>52399368
>>52397618

>>52398644
>stormcasts got-slightly-weaker overall

>he actually thinks this


lmfao

>>52399932
What exactly is strong about Stormcast? They don't hit very hard save for some very expensive units and they can teleport within 9".

I play Fyreslayers, Honestly I hope people DO teleport close to me so I can catch them out.

>>52398464
here we go with another store manager shilling products in a general

>>52400000
fkn get

>>52400000
Not him, but you know there ARE people out there who have money and like GW products.

I myself have one of each of the realms of battle and a ton of GW terrain.

>>52399932
They did. The loss of Warrior Brotherhood hurts, and the Azyros is worthless garbage now. The new units are by and large nice, but hardly gamebreaking, and the relics and traits are mostly mediocre, with the standouts being Consummate Commander and Staunch Defender.

Are fyreslayers Even playable? I would feel unconfortable with that small Range of minatures atm

>>52400448
>small range of miniatures
>6 kits
>9 models
>small range of miniatures
To start with, fuck yourself. They're playable but shitty, mostly because everything they field is overpriced trash. GHBII is fixing this with roughly a 20 point discount across the faction.

Is there any specific Seraphon units that are particularly strong? Likewise, are there any that I should avoid fielding altogether?

>>52400000
go to /o/ or /k/ if u wanna see people with too much money.

>>52397596
>>52397651
>>52397707
>>52397809
>>52397945
>>52398129
>>52398233
>>52398417
>>52398464
>HEY HEY BLUE TABLE FANS

>>52400574
Carnosaurus, Knights and Warriors are very slightly sub-par. Otherwise you'll have to try really hard to build a shit list with Seraphon.

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>>52397596
>tfw you miss dragon dildo unboxings

>>52397618
Sweet Jesus.
He better be 300 or 350 fucking points

>>52397651
Dude go start a blog somewhere else.

>>52397809
Please post some of your painted models anon.
I'll wait.

>>52397945
> shitting on attention whore anon
> see Blood Angels
> MAH nigga
You just went up a notch anon.
You are on notch one.

>>52398464
You need two more ball Predators to make Lucifer Armored Task Force formation anon.
Also most of our new formations are absolute garbage.
Go Arch angels instead of battle company (too much tax, so much shit)

>>52398916
Earthquakes too now

>>52400848
> /k/ommandos
> making too much money
Anon, stupid white trash in America don't make a lot of money. They waste the little money they do have on shit like guns, then whine and complain on how they need more money from the government while screaming how much they hate said government. And black people. A lot of racist shit there.

>>52401102
I haven't bought any of those units so I guess I'm fine so far. I was planning on having an Eternal and Shadowstrike Starhost and some other things in my army, and wasn't sure if I should get some warriors or not. I'll skip that and get some other things then.

>>52401298
Please stop projecting anon

Hey /aosg/, I got a box of ardboyz secondhand and it didn't come with instructions. Does the kit really expect me to snip the weapons off weapon hands to put on shields?

>>52399967
Hammerstrike Force lets you teleport directly into melee with 20+ paladins

Their entire army can deploy off the board, which counters alpha strike fast armies like Tomb Kings and double shooting armes

Strong defensive abilities coupled with powerful shooting, can make very powerful defensive lists

Strong heavy cavalry, can make very powerful charging lists

High mortal wound output. Heraldor is one of the best warscrolls in the game, hard counters defensive armies like highborne and seraphon

You can put your whole army in one battalion very easily, giving you only 1 drop and almost guaranteed that you can

>>52401760
>Heraldor is one of the best warscrolls in the game

It's ridicolous how I never see someone taking this despite that. And I play Sylvaneth regularly facing Stormcast! You'd guess somebody would take the model that shit mortal wounds against everything I have.

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>>52401197
Okay

1/3

>>52398673
Oh dude classic Greenskinz were fucked from the get go, even when the PDF's dropped they were shit

don't expect much either GW wants all Orcs to be savage or ironjaw

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>>52401197
2/3

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>>52401197
3/3

>>52401833
Those are pretty good anon. I love the ice blades

>>52401833
>>52401852
>>52401869
Not to keen on the orc skin, everything else is pretty nice

>>52401101
Don't remind me i used to watch that crap channel, they had decent fantasy battle reports

Wanted to punch that silver haired fuck every opening

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>>52401887
>>52401905
Thanks
I've gotten much better since then

I was painting 20+ orruks and tried doing layered skin on the test model (you can see him in the middle here) but it took too much time so I just drybrushed the rest.

It looks much better in person, the flash in the photos makes it look worse than it is

>>52399368
No, but they mentioned some abilities in White Dwarf.

The Ironclad literally acts like your flagship. You can use it to send flag signals to buff other units that see it. The example they gave added 3" to weapon range.
Ironclads can also have their own Artefacts. The one they had lets the Ironclad fire that artefact against any unit that comes within half an inch of the ship after a charge.
There are different types of bombs. One bomb forces the unit you hit to attack at the end of the combat phase, one just does damage, and there is one that hits flying enemies that get to close.
Both Ironclads and Frigates can carry any unit with the "Skyfarer" keyword. The Ironclad in the battlereport carries two units and 3 heroes.

On the topic of flying enemies, one of the pre-made battle traits you can have lets you rerloll 1s to hit and wound against flying targets, get auto 6s for their run roll and their ships ignore mortal wounds on a roll of 6.
White Dwarf says "Instead of getting a single trait like most other factions, you choose your armys interpretation of the Kharadron Code from a trio of lists, giving you an Artycle, an Amendment and a Footnote, which allow you to interpret the code to your own preferences".
There are pre-done ones themed around the major skyports as well.

>>52400229
>The loss of Warrior Brotherhood

yeah get back to me when you lose warrior brotherhood. Nothing was lost, SC only got more options, not less.

>>52401946
I wanna steal your basing, how did you do it?

>>52402102
Stirland Mud (or battlemire? Dont remember, either should be fine)
Drybrush it with Fenris Grey
Middenland tufts
Valhallan blizzard. Theres some cool techniques you can use that I learned from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErQHPau6KiE
Paint the lip fenris grey

results from Adepticon

First Place was 18 Skyfires, 2 lords of change

Second Place was 12 Necro Knights and Settra

Third Place was Kurnoth Hunters

Fourth Place was Stonehorn, 3 Thundertusks, Grots

copied from another site.

>>52400574
>>52401102
>>52401303

Knights are fucking shit. Only playable in like one formation.With buffs.
Warriors are your screens, your chaff. Pretty decent for use in a couple of formations, bloodclaw starhost bumps their damage output significantly.
Carnosaur is pretty decent, both the oldblood and scar-vet. I think the Oldblood might be a bit overcosted, but I still run one because hes a pretty fucking good monster-hunter.

Your core will be saurus guard. You'll want chameleon skinks for taking objectives and sniping heroes and war machine crew. Bastilodons are fucking amazing, but fucking expensive. Take the solar death laser. Stegadons are decent, salamanders are great against high-armour monsters. Troglodons are crap (shame desu, all they needed was some rend to be good).

>>52402175
1st and 2nd place tied, the tiebreaker was a soft score

also
>1000 points
lol who cares

>>52402222
>>1000 points lol who cares

do you really play small games a lot? In my area 2000 is typical with larger, sometimes 3000, being not uncommon.

>>52402254
Im saying 1000 is way too small to make any meaningful judgments about game balance

>>52398464
nice loot. Hope you enjoy death as much as I do. Have fun.

>>52402222
1000-1500 is the perfect pts for AoS,

2000+ faggots get fucked

>>52402280
it really depends on what army youre playing. some play better at low points and some better at high points.

you probably play an army that preforms better at lower points level games.

>>52402280
You're retarded if you think anything less than 2k is a decent game. Do you still believe AoS is a skirmish game too?

>>52402305
>Y-you don't understand, i have an unpainted Gordrakk/Glottkin and need to justify the purchase, p-please play me anon!

Get fucked

Low point master race represent

>>52402280
I like playing sub-2000 games, but 2000+ is my favourite way of playing

>>52402175
Were there no battleline requirements? That's hilarious.

>>52401869
Orruks are a little dry brush lazy.
Chieftain is meh, but great by this place standards.
Those blight kings though.... just right.
I tip my hat to you anon. I want to hate on you for your blog posting shit, but at least you throw down. Respect.

>>52401603
> tells it like it is
> REEEEEE PROJECTING ANON
I was just at a VA gun show this weekend. 99% of attendees completely confirm my statement.

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>>52402382
Thanks. I painted 15 as a commission. Here's another shot.

I enjoyed painting them so much that I wanted to get my own blight kings, and thankfully they come in the new Warhammer Quest box

>>52401720
Yes.
It's an old kit design anon.
But why aren't you taking double choppas anyway. The shields suck. In fact the double handed weapons suck too (buy l

>>52402416
(But I still made a unit of unit because the huge makes and axes are pretty cool)

>>52402415
Fuck yeah those are nice. You earned your money on those guys.
I suppose if your looking to get a bunch of random heros just to paint, Shadow over Whatever the fuck is a good deal... it just sucks it has none of the cool new models they put in Silver Tower.

>>52402371
>Were there no battleline requirements? That's hilarious.

I assume that >>52402175 only mentions the elements of the top lists that make them worth mentioning.

>>52398464
That's right, just keep pretending we care... if it's not all built and WIP I couldn't give less of a shit

>>52402416
I'm running 7 2handed weapons and 3 shields. The idea is that I allocate wounds to the shields, away from the standard bearer and drummer. The only reason I picked 2handed is because I'm running a bigger unit of 20 (eventually).

>>52402362

I have armies available for both point scales after having played Empire in WHFB, but now also having a smaller Stormcast force since I had a friend that wanted the Khorne models when AoS came out so we split the box, I have to agree that I like ~1,500 point games more for the most part. That isn't to say I don't have fun with both, but sometimes you want a faster game.

>>52402627
I'll be honest anon, after their first charge hardboyz are rarely going to make a second (at least in my experience). They either take two to three turns killing something, either taking or defending an objective; or they slowly getting ground down and die (also takes 2 to 3 turns). After I make the charge, drummer is first guy to die.
Also, with only 1 inch reach, it's hard to get more than 10 orruks in a fight anyway... and for stupid reasons we get no bonus, at all, for larger units. I guess if you want a wierd nob caster bunker it's cool? Or just a big tarpit?>>52402627

I don't think I've ever played a game over 1000 points, am I the anomaly? Mostly because I'm new (bit over 1 year in the hobby) and just don't really have that huge of a force yet.

Are bigger point games really that much more fun? I might make an attempt at one if I can manage to get enough models.

>>52402886
my feeling on it is that around 2000 points + or - 500 is where the matched play scenarios (on appropriate sized boards with terrain rules) feel like they're working as intended.

don't play big games and just have the only goal to be to kill the other army, the game will be shit.

So much autism in these replies.

>>52397375

Plastic Slann, rules to make them rival Tzeentch greater Daemons.

Is there any reason to run Morghasts instead of Necropolis Knights?

Even at 240 points, it seems like NK are strictly better than Archai...

>>52402886
They can be... but I find 1000 is a nice size. Games are quick. Generally avoid the most cheesy of bullshit. If your having fun anon why change?

>>52402851
Hmm. Honestly I don't really know what kind of tactical use I'll have them for.

I play exclusively against Skaven. What use are the boyz versus rats?

>>52403056
Two handed choppas.
The rats don't have much in the way of armor. Mass attacks will take down a load of them. Just they need a war chanter to shine- 4+ to hit sucks...
Their bigger, nastier stuff you need to sic brutes on. I sent 10 brutes into a Verminlord and a 20 rat squad and mulched both in one turn.
Just watch out for their shooting. It's painful

>>52403056
ALSO- they are really good anvils. The 8 bravery they have in combat make them your bravest troops. They stick around better than brutes once they start taking damage. Having a skirmish line of hardboyz protecting brutes from charges, who then ironfist/destruction move around to counter charge, is pretty useful.

Skaven player here. Can't beat my Ironjawz friend. What do?

Did unboxing anon get all that from a GW or a 3rd party?

>>52403285
Skyre and laugh.

>>52403285
Pretty much>>52403406
Rat shooting will rip Ironjawz apart.
Ironjawz are really really weak to mortal wound spam and high rend shooting. What can skaven do? Oh yeah. Spam mortal wounds and high rend shooting. You should be deploying your rats in layers around the shooty pieces, and pray he doesn't get good destruction/ironfist moves, or a double turn, and crump your shit before you can shoot more than twice

What's the best way to learn about AoS armies, other than the GW website? I know the lore is controversial but I'm curious about lore and playstyles alike.

>>52402475
?
Shadows Over Hammerhal has Kairic Acolytes in it. Unless you mean the fact that it doesn't have any new models itself, in which case, yeah that fucking sucks.

>>52403749
Just use 1d4chan

>>52403749
1d4chan's list of factional info is adequate in some respects. No info on Tzeentch Arcanites though, weirdly enough.

Avoid the last couple of paragraphs of the Fyreslayer section, too. That "Zharrgrim are Chaos Dwarfs!" conspiracy theory is bullshit.

>>52403859
>>52403856

Thanks!

>>52403773
That's what I mean.
No cool new goblin sculpts.
No new awesome monster like the roid rage ogroid.
Just recycled stuff

>>52403889
*sighs wearily*
Some marauder/bloodreaver/kairic-level Nurglites would've been nice, ya know? Just bring them up to date with the rest.

At least there are rules for the other shit in current Warhammer Quest now, for what it's worth.

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mfw i just realized my handgunners hit and wound on a 2+ when a general is nearby

>>52404132
Shit, another Redcoat Freeguilder? Or if you're just using the meme, certainly fits the army. Yeah, Freeguild Gunlines are hilarious. Add in a pair of Cannons with a Master Engineer for added glory.

>>52404132
Unfortunately, since you are forced to sit still, and you are outranged by more or less all of the most dangerous shooting units, freeguild handgunners get less and less scary every time there is a new release.

>>52404366
Yeah, the creep is pretty fucking annoying. I'd fucking kill for a unit of totally-not-jezzails with Hochland Long Rifles and Pavises.

>>52404437
I get the feeling it is going to peak with the Dorf Navy. I really can't see how they could possibly make shooting more powerful than that.

>>52404518
While I hate to say it because this plays right into that one faggot's hand...
>elves

>>52404575

>This is exactly what I'm afraid of

>This is also EXACTLY what all the elf fags want.

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>>52398867

Let's be honest here, fellas, if there was a faction that would out shoot dwarves, it'd be an elf one.

All I want, however, is mount traits for everyone!

*gives mount traits for Slann's throne and Oldblood's Carnosaur*

I have some old vampire counts models and was considering getting into Age of sigmar. This is just based of what I have on the cupboard.


Deathrattle:
Wight king 120
30 skeletons 240
30 skeletons 240
10 skeletons 80
30 grave guard 480
20 black knights 480
Battlescroll thing 60

Necromancer 120
Necromancer 120
10 zombies 60

2000pts

Why in the sweet fuck would elves out-shoot dwarves?

>>52404798
>EXACTLY what all the elf fags want

find me the person who doesn't want their favorite army to be competitive with the top tier armies.

oh, you can't? That's not even shocking at all.

>>52404798
Yeah. It's kinda tiresome. Hell, I haven't even started collecting my Redcoat Renegades, and I'm seeing the cracks forming. At least Freeguild has gimmicks and tricks to manipulate an opponent with, but it certainly is a little unfortunate to see S+ ranged units continuing to come down the pipeline.

I'm sorta fine with my Line Infantry getting outmatched by dwarves, out-volleyed by Brets and Orruks, and the like. But what really grinds me gears is the fact that the cogfops appear to be getting Grade A ranged cavalry as well, and we could always fall back on Outriders even while Pistoliers are and will always be shit.

>>52404913
Because bows consistently outrange guns in AoS.

>>52404940
And to continue my thought, at this point my wish as a theoretical Freeguild player is
>price reduction on the Steam Tank -- yes, it isn't techinically ours, but it may as well be
>small expensive unit armed with long rifles, basically just the !Jezzails I talk about upthread. Could just be a copy-paste and I'd be happy.
>some way to unfuck pistoliers
And pistoliers are just in a bad place. You can't even really drop the cost of them, because then you're just making State Troop Detachment cheaper and risk cheesing it that way. I guess they make okay meat-torpedoes.

>>52405072
hate to be that guy but someone really needs to tell it to you strait: GW don't care about freeguild, they care about their empire replacement poster boy psudo space marines.

I don't like it. I wish it wasn't the case. I feel for your situation.

I could be wrong, lets hope I am wrong.

>>52404936

You misunderstand.

Elf fags don't want "competitive with top tier".

I will not argue that everyone wants their army to be viable and able to compete.

>Elf fags want the best of everything.

They want to BE the top tier. And given GW's past, they are likely to give it to them.

>>52405158
>Elf fags want the best of everything.

says who? you? based on what? some shitposters on 4chan? for Christ's sake man get a bigger sample size before you make such outrageous generalizations.

>>52405116
Oh trust me, I'm well aware. The only thing of the three above that I even think is a possibility is a points drop on the Steam Tank. We've already seen that they're at least vaguely aware of issues such as the Fyreslayers, so there's the chance that GHB2 will see the Steam Tank shave a few points off the cost.

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Who else is worried that the kharadron will have broken unfair rules making them the AoS equivalent of Tau?

>>52405225
How would you mix Fyreslayers with Overlords?

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Hey /death/, two quick questions.

>1. The Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist has the Abhorrant Ghoul King keyword. Does this mean the Attendants at Court Battalion allows him to activate his command ability twice, or is it limited to the Abhorrant Ghoul King on foot?
>2. Does the Start Collecting! Flesh Eater Courts box come with a full sprue for the Zombie Dragon/Terrorgheist? The webstore just says "comes with a Terrorgheist" - can you build a Dragon from it instead, or no?

Thanks ahead of time

>>52405225
>worried
Not worried. I expect it by now.

>>52405225
nothing we have seen so far is "broken" really in the sense that it can be dealt with in the context of matched play games. What will earn the title "broken" is if the points costs are unfairly low relative to the other things meant to do similar things. It really boils down to the points costs they tack onto these new fancy balloon enthusiast dwarves.

>>52405329
Im pretty sure you can make a dragon from it. You can just check the sprues online if it has dragon parts its a yes.
I'm interested to because im wondering if they will do a SC with a dragon and no ghouls.

>>52397809

>Implying you're a richfag while simultaneously implying it's not possible to waste money

Middle class pleb detected. You will never be wealthy. I just want to remind you of that, poorfag.

2 bosses, 2 chanters, 2 mobs of 20 ard boys, 4 mobs of 5 brutes in two ironfists. That's a proppa 2k ironjawz list

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>>52405324
I wouldn't. They can keep their baby carrier dragon saddles.
>>52405401
We don't know how the transport rules work yet do we? If they are anything like 40k flyer rules or if they have fireports I can see this ending poorly.

>>52405329
>1. Yes. Bolded words indicate Keywords and the Abhorrant Ghoul King on a Terrorgheist indeed has that specific Keyword.
>2. Yes, you can build either option. Start Collecting! sets (as far as I know) contain the whole sprues.

>>52405451
How do we know this guy didn't just loot a whole lot of stock.
Would explain the mixed choices.

>>52405486
>We don't know how the transport rules work yet do we? If they are anything like 40k flyer rules or if they have fireports I can see this ending poorly.

you could be right. like I said, nothing we have seen "so far" has rules so powerful that they are unfair at any points cost.

>>52405530

Thank you very much, anon!

>>52405435

Unfortunately the website doesn't show the sprues for the SC! kit, but if they generally do include the whole sprue I'll probably pick one up. I actually want a Terrorgheist anyway but I was thinking I'd just buy two. Instead I'll buy one, make sure it has the whole sprue, then buy a second... SC! FEC is $3 less than just buying the Dragon kit on its own in my country.

>>52405486
>>52405571
>transport rules
Well, we know you can stuff the bastards with units and heroes up to a point, and then you can stuff in more but it slows down. Somewhere upthread someone mentioned an Ironclad carrying two units and 3 heroes.

And given the plethora of ranged units, it seems like the Overlords will be able to cheese their way out of melee. While yes, you will be able to measure to the base of the Ironclad itself, whether the units inside of the Ironclad are kept off of the table or placed onto the ship itself, their bases are certainly not going to be on the ground. So get ready to have to punch your way through a sky boat in order to get at the dwarves inside, all the while eating what will likely be some of the game's most powerful shooting plus bombs.

Measuring base-to-base only allows you to melee flying units whose bases are on the ground. Those that are eight inches up on an Ironclad are going to be out of reach unless you're a Behemoth.

>>52405451
I never said it was impossible to waste money.

It's a subjective statement. Everything is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it - what may not be worthwhile to you may be worthwhile to others.

>>52405571
I hope I'm wrong to be honest. I just want to be a balloon enthusiast dwarf and not be called a cheesy bastard

>>52405608
Just check out the dragon kit or terrorgheist kit

>>52405571
I mean, we have seen a Dwarf Lord whose melee profile alone is more powerful than the Warhammer that Warhammer is named after. And that's in addition to being a super fast, flying buff-monster.

>>52405694

Oh, right. Yeah it's all one sprue (two, but the parts are split between them) and comes with both riders too. Awesome, since the other army I was interested in is Soulblight. Also I typo'd, I meant to say $30 less, not $3 lol. Still not a bad deal at all.

>>52405664
>>52405684
>>52405703

I think it all boils down to the points costs they tack onto these monstrosities. At the right points cost I think they can be "fair".

However, GW doesn't exactly have a great track record for appropriately points costing their new releases.

>>52402304
As if some genius game designer planned it that way. Surprise! They didn't.

>>52397754
I bet hes opening a game store

AoS thread is noticably less shit than 40k.

>>52398464
This isn't /toy/. Only the finished and fully assembled model counts. Is it too much to ask that it be painted as well?

>>52405816
>not liking unopen GW boxes
Its addictive

>>52405809
Because all the grognards migrated there to prep for the nu-40k shitstorm

>>52402402
>I was just at a VA gun show this weekend.

>Confirming he was indeed projecting
Wut did he mean by this ?

>>52405744
>both riders
Wut? The FEC comes with a rando Vampire Lord? Fucking kek. It's nice enough for conversions sake since the FEC think they're all Bretonnians, but it'd be even nicer if the other FEC units came with some knightly-bits to allow you some mix-and-match on your boys.

>>52405751
I mean, how would you personally cost a... Let's see. Ironclad's are same footprint as a Baneblade but with more meat on them. So definitely 10-15 wounds if not more, probably with a 4+ save. Just looking at the bastard it's loaded to the gills with guns. And bombs. And acts as a fast shooting platform for Overlord units. Oh, and it also acts as an ablative Wound shield to forbid you from getting into melee with the units onboard and provides them Cover from shooting attacks.

How would you cost that?

>>52405859
Dunno, but it really got the old skull potato firing.

>>52405865
>How would you cost that?
Maybe... 180 points. Gotta ensure that Games Workshop can sell plenty $150 kits.

>Power creep is already taking over

how long until they have to reboot the game AGAIN

>>52405865

Unless they made a different sprue specifically for FEC, yes, it does. Which is honestly pretty lulzy. That said, as far as I'm aware most ghouls don't wear armor because in their delusion they think they already have it on, but that doesn't mean there's no room to create Your Dudes.

>>52405865
>How would you cost that?

from what I understand GW relies on experts who use play testing as their primary method of balancing.

Information was released that indicated it took a team of 5 guys one weekend to do the complete analysis and rebalance of all units for GHB2.0 so I assume they know what they're doing.

definitely I wouldn't use any kind of math, and absolutely no spreadsheets.

>>52405939
I think this was the plan all along. AoS as a system is meant to be "rebootable" in and of itself. The demand for points which led to the GH was kind of an ad-hoc hiccup.

>>52405158
>They want to BE the top tier. And given GW's past, they are likely to give it to them.
Not likely. GW will make sure Stormcast are the top tier.

>>52405945
It'd be less on the model because they were wearing them as much as doing an army that's caught half-way between their own twisted delusions and the horrifying reality.

>>52405978
Stormcasts aren't even the Top tier now, immediately after a new battletome, what the fuck are you on about?

>>52405972
>from what I understand GW relies on experts who use play testing as their primary method of balancing.

To Be Exact: A very limited number of in-house only playtesters, and nothing (nothing) like next-edition D&D, or video game beta testers. Let that sink in for a minute. How do you know it's not all just for show anon?

>Information was released that indicated it took a team of 5 guys one weekend to do the complete analysis and rebalance of all units for GHB2.0 so I assume they know what they're doing.

I saw that too. With all due respect anon, have you ever been to a tournament? You could not fit that many games into just one weekend. "All units" would definitely not mean, "all units in all the armies." It can only mean the armies they want to promote, and only those combinations with one another exclusively.

>definitely I wouldn't use any kind of math, and absolutely no spreadsheets.

Why not? It's the most reliable way to confirm game balance.

>>52406135
His post was dripping with sarcasm, dude.

Anyone have OCD and collect warhammer. How do you deal with it?

>>52406135
I should have made my distain and lack of confidence more clear in this post >>52405972 maybe a /sarcasm or something to that effect.

>Why not? It's the most reliable way to confirm game balance.

while I agree with you, and its refreshing someone agrees with me, the application of math to the problem of balance in AOS is an irrationally hated and mocked pursuit.

>>52406159
Deal with what? Buying more than you can complete or being able to call a model finished?

>>52405816
>Only the finished and fully assembled model counts.
What? No, fuck off retard

>>52406148
>His post was dripping with sarcasm, dude.

Thanks for the help, but this is AoS, so it's really hard to tell what's 'dripping with sarcasm' and what isn't." For example, this actually happened: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/09/generals-handbook-ii-behind-the-scenes/

>>52405809
Its been this way for almost 2 years now

Even our shitposters like blood elffag are better than the average 40k poster

>>52406205
>What? No, fuck off retard

If you talk it over with your TO, he might let you play the unit while still on the sprues. But you should ask first.

>>52406217
>blood elffag
>>52379345

>>52406091
>Stormcasts aren't even the Top tier now
Have you seen a Stardrake with 4 castellants?

>>52405996

I agree that it's a cool concept, anon, I was just pointing out the "canon reason" why they don't include or encourage that stuff (I assume the real reason is GW being cheap or something).

>>52406235
Thank god theres more to this hobby than just playing the game, otherwise the community would be full of daft arses like you

>>52406185
>the application of math to the problem of balance in AOS is an irrationally hated and mocked pursuit.

Would love to see more threads about this. Azyr Comp as a joke and GH wasn't much better. I would really like to contribute to a community that is willing to pursue this as a collective goal.

>>52406263
>Thank god theres more to this hobby than just playing the game, otherwise the community would be full of daft arses like you

^ See? Sarcasm doesn't work at all here.

>>52406267
>Would love to see

see guys he asked so no being mean.

I made a video about how to do it. Its a little long but it gives the details about how to create an actual balanced system of points.
https://youtu.be/EQPfJahmt1A

to apply this method to the entire matrix of units for the AOS game system would take a few hundred hours of data entry/number crunching, something I can't do alone.

Maybe GW will pick up the idea and take the credit for themselves, I just want a better game, not notoriety.

>>52406332
>1h16m

Nope.

Your autism aside, you can't balance a game like AOS purely with math because there are too many situational unit synergies and combinations to consider. It needs to come from testing and empirical evidence, not purely theoretical

>>52406332
Many thanks anon. My assumptions have been misleading me for nearly a year now. Please spread the word.

>>52405939
Yearly generals handbook and consistent errata and warscroll changes mean that powercreep shouldn't get out of control if they keep a hand on it.

>>52406445
>implying this much

>>52406426
>you can't balance a game like AOS purely with math because there are too many situational unit synergies and combinations to consider.

Yeah, like an RTS. So it can be done, you simply can't make the mental leap between platforms. That's the level some of us were hoping the devs were on. Unfortunately, they're not, and neither are you.

>>52406091
Explain LVO

>>52406469
Game devs can't balance rts games with more than two factions.

>>52406469
RTS arent balanced by math, are you fucking retarded??

Theyre always balanced by trial and error.

as someone who just got back into buying gw stuff since before age of sigmar came out i have a question about the game is it fun?

>>52406426
>you can't balance a game like AOS purely with math because there are too many situational unit synergies and combinations to consider.

and some people refused to believe men could fly until they saw airplanes with their own eyes.

lucky for us, balancing a table top wargame is not actually that complicated.

>>52406473
The top 4 had a khorne bloodbound list (lol) a tomb king list with zero necropolis knights (wtf) and a stormcast list that used a realmgate (why was this allowed??) and the soft scores (painting, sportsmanship) were more than just tiebreakers.

It was a casual tournament run by casuals and played by casuals, not at all indicative of competitive AOS

>>52406509
Are you seriously comparing the invention of human flight to balancing a childrens tabletop game?

Are you SERIOUSLY making this comparison??

You refuse to listen to reason and spout pretentious nonsense whenever somebody offers valid arguments. This is why people always hate on your autistic nonsense. You're so retarded that you don't understand why people call you retarded.

>>52406544
>whenever somebody offers valid arguments
from the guy who wouldn't even watch the video to understand what it is he is criticizing. >>52406426


we did this a couple weeks ago. I know you don't believe it is possible, that's fine. Believe whatever you want.

also I said

>lucky for us, balancing a table top wargame is not actually that complicated.

because its not with the proper grasp on statistics and data analytical methods.

Humans are the best all other races can suck it

>>52406495
>RTS arent balanced by math, are you fucking retarded??

The standard 6x4 tabletop is a limited space where the base footprint for any given mini can only cover it's own space at one time. Thus, it can be mathematically modeled, just like any RTS game, or turn-based strategy game.

>Theyre always balanced by trial and error.

Maybe IRL, but we're not really interested in mere appeal to tradition.

>>52406576
But theres more to balancing a game than just pure math and analysis.

I don't need to spend over an hour of my life watching a video to know you're wrong because you are beginning from a blatantly wrong position, which invalidates any kind of proposition.
It's like somebody trying to convince you that the earth is flat. You know they're wrong. Why waste time watching them sperg out on youtube for an hour?

>>52406601
Player choice has a massive influence on the value of a unit/ability. Unit positioning matters. Objectives matter. Unit combinations and formations change the value of specific abilities.

You CANNOT balance AOS only with math because there are too many situational variables to consider.

It's the fucking scythe vs sword argument all over again. Scythes are better for reasons that can't be solved from an equation, and it is plain as day as soon as you play an actual game, but I'm sure you autistic fuckheads are going to start telling me otherwise because "m-muh math"

>Maybe IRL, but we're not really interested in mere appeal to tradition.

What the fuck are you talking about
How does somebody balance a video game "IRL"? How is this an issue of "tradition"? I'm surprised you can't smell how bad your shit stinks with how far your head is up your ass.

Why are bows better than guns

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>>52406729

>>52406729
Technically, they aren't. They have more range, but they also have Rend.

>>52406684
>you are beginning from a blatantly wrong position

but if you had watched the video you would understand my solution to that problem and how to appropriately and uniformly apply a set of subjective parameters to the analysis.

But since you didn't understand the method, you jumped to the wrong conclusion about the position I was starting from.

I tried to tell you that last week but you were too busy screaming about how I was stupid to hear it.

>>52406496
Yes, I find it fun to play and to come up with stuff for my dudes

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Alright, which army lets me make an all Skeleton army and is it possible for it to be good? Am new, but saw Skeletons.

Do not want flesh of any kind, for flesh is of the weak.

>>52406684
>But theres more to balancing a game than just pure math and analysis.

Making vague allusions to "more" isn't the same as specifically delineating "more."

>I don't need to spend over an hour of my life watching a video to know you're wrong because you are beginning from a blatantly wrong position, which invalidates any kind of proposition.

tl;dr "OMG you're wrong because you're just wrong!"

BTW, player choice is limited to the 6x4 tabletop. It's like a grid. You're so confused that you think player choice in a tabletop wargame is somehow unlimited.

>It's like somebody trying to convince you that the earth is flat. You know they're wrong. Why waste time watching them sperg out on youtube for an hour?

Because there's specific evidence that the earth is not flat. You're just too lazy to defend yourself.


>It's the fucking scythe vs sword argument all over again. Scythes are better for reasons that can't be solved from an equation, and it is plain as day as soon as you play an actual game, but I'm sure you autistic fuckheads are going to start telling me otherwise because "m-muh math"

Everything is reducible to math. That's why we have video games. If the minis were simulated on a virtual 4x6 playing field, the computer could predictably calculate every variation that you're claiming cannot be done.

>>52406246
And tell me how 900 points wrapped up in 5 models is going to do against 900 points of almost literally anything else. Destruction - throw grots at it with inspiring presence watch as they never give a fuck. Death - throw Zombies at it.
Chaos throw marauders at it. Drown it in bodies. Or do what anyone would do, not give a fuck about about the stardrake and take objectives. Remember, this is a 900 pt combo that can't hold objectives well. Most tourneys base things off of closeness to objectives, which will mean its a deadpoint as every other army just bubblewraps around and stops the stormcast from capturing, or goes and kills the castellants. Orruks can chase down the buffers or snipe them off with warmarchines or kunnin rukk (either a 5+d6 for general destruction or a 15" move first turn with hand of gork and ironfirst for ironjawz.) Unless the fight is to the death and most points killed, then I can see it, but stormcast are crap at holding objectives as they are an elite army and this stardrake with 4 heroes just conflates the issue.

>>52406853
There is no possible solution you can offer that can balance a game purely with statistics accounting for all the variables that exist. Many abilities have variables with no quantifiable aspect, or a situational skill that only gets any kind of value under certain circumstances.

>>52406931
I never said player choice is unlimited, of course it is finite, but the number of combinations of unit choices, unit synergies, and strategies that are possible - especially when many variables CANNOT BE QUANTIFIED - makes it impossible to balance the game purely with math.

>Everything is reducible to math
No. This statement is patently and self-evidently false.

>If the minis were simulated on a virtual 4x6 playing field, the computer could predictably calculate every variation that you're claiming cannot be done.

Of course a computer can "solve" a game of AOS once the game is set up. But there are choices that happen BEFORE a game begins that effect the game itself. We are not talking about how a computer can beat a player, we are talking about balancing the game.

>>52406986
lol go play an actual game instead of theorycrafting

pro tip: there is a way for the stardrake to retreat + charge, maybe you can figure it out

>>52406906

Deathrattle, but you're better off including a Necromancer (or possibly Vampire) than going 100% bone zone.

Basically you run mostly skeletons, with grave guard to fill the heavy-ish infantry role and black knights for acceptable cavalry, then add Wight Kings (on horse for fast support guy or with axe for slow fuck you insta-killing-heroes guy).

But Skeletons are a generic battleline, so you can combine with other death factions. Vampire Lords and Necromancers both have abilities that really help buff your guys, although Vampire Lords much less so unless you're going for a mixed army anyway. Just model your Necromancers as spooky skellingtons and say they're liches. You could also add spooky ghost skellingtons if you're into that sort of thing (Mordant Engines etc).

Shitty example list (I play Death, but not BONE ZONE), 960 points:
>Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade on Skeletal Steed, 120 points
>Necromancer on Nightmare, 120 points
>10 Black Nights, 240 points
>20 Skeletons, spears and shields, 240 points
>20 Skeletons, spears and shields, 240 points

This gives you mobile spell casters and cavalry (could split the Knights into two units I guess), and two solid blocks of skeletons with which to stab shit. You're a bit restricted since you basically only have 3-4 units but that's not the biggest deal. Your Wight Lord, being your general, lets your one unit attack twice with each weapon. Your Necromancer does basically the same thing. The Lord also saves dead Skeletons on a roll of 6 if they're within 9", and the Necromancer can stay alive by having Skeletons die in his place. Also Skeletons get better if they're close to a death hero, and if they have a standard you get D6 of the dead ones back each turn.

TL;DR play deathrattle+deathmage, stick necromancer and wight king in giant skeleton block, murder dudes

>>52407110
>>52406906

I also forgot to mention that the Necromancer can also cast Mystic Shield instead of the extra-stabby spell if you need to hold an objective, and further that Skeletons are actually really good so long as you buff them appropriately. They start out really shit, and then they get really good.

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>>52407110
I really like the ethereal units like these ghost dudes too, the paint job is the best part about this pic right here.

>>52407145

They're pretty good too, can definitely run an ethereal army. I don't do that either and don't even have any of those models so I can't give much advice but I know they can be decent. Also you can combine any of the Death shit since there are no allegiance bonuses anyway except for the Flesh Eater Courts. So basically as long as you have some skeletons do whatever you want on top.

>>52407040
>I never said player choice is unlimited, of course it is finite, but the number of combinations of unit choices, unit synergies, and strategies that are possible - especially when many variables CANNOT BE QUANTIFIED - makes it impossible to balance the game purely with math.

Well now you're just contradicting yourself, because if it is finite, then it is quantifiable.

>No. This statement is patently and self-evidently false.

^ Your ad lapidem responses are patently and redundantly tiresome.

>Of course a computer can "solve" a game of AOS once the game is set up. But there are choices that happen BEFORE a game begins that effect the game itself. We are not talking about how a computer can beat a player, we are talking about balancing the game.

Those choices constitute the preprogrammed variables that go into the computer. Furthermore, the computer can play the game so quickly, that we can observe and correct balancing issues right away.

>>52407145
The thing I hate the most about Nighthaunt is the fact that the faction barely works on its on. Firstly, the SC! features the Mortis Engine which is out of Allegiance. And then you get the Black Coach which powers up with friendly Wizards... in a faction that has no wizards.

If you want to play Nighthaunt, though, it's definitely a faction that you are only holding yourself back by not getting Forgeworld. The fucking Mourngul. Just jesus fucking christ. That thing is terrifying.

Is the lore good yet?

>>52407170
Wait, ethereals are their own army? Huh.

>>52407212
>mourngul
>check rules
Whoah. Only thing I don't like is the model, tbqh. But it still looks cool.

So I wanna make that Ironjawz grots idea someone was mentioning...what would be the best way to do that, do you think? Buy grots, greenstuff armour on them?

>>52407290

Sigmar has a retarded system of sub-factions that basically only exists to fuck up the old pre-update armies (or "to encourage thematic armies" if you believe GW). Luckily Death is neglected enough that you barely lose anything by going out of Allegiance, other than having to take generic battleline units. Not really a problem when you probably wanted ghouls, zombies or skeletons in the first place as a Death player.

>>52407290
If you really want to see if you can bait your opponent into stabbing you to death, build a Nighthaunt army, standard shit though obviously reaching into Deathmages. Include a Mourngul. Then include a 400 point summoning pool. And summon another.

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Needs more Nurgle

>>52397375

hey guys I'm looking at returning to Fantasy/AoS with an entirely fresh start, but I have a few questions about the setting.

Old fantasy had pretty clear lines int he sand about who is buddies with who, maps and borders to represent where different armies were found any why.

I'm a pretty theme driven hobbyist and AoS seems super vague, do I just pic one of the 4 factions and a realm of maghic and build around that?

Aside from reading the AoS novels(I tried, just don't dig it) how do I find out more about the lore and the setting to build my army theme around?

It mostly seems like everything is temporary dimensions or once off battles that dont have any long standing grudges like the old dwarves and goblins for example.

TLDR; liek themed armies but dont liek AoS novels, how do i make themed armies?

>>52407297
Are you talking about the comically-armored grots?

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>>52407529

also posted about coming back a while ago, used to play tomb kings that were set on the border of the desert and jungle, themed around a jungle reclaimed temple.

pics of my skellies all made from tomb guard in NMM for the few guys who were asking

>>52407529
>>52407564
Here, how a look at how I have made my dudes, maybe that will help.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DleJ7guokNXxnsKZX7hu-vjRa0Hw4edANjkYRwm0PDY

Did Vampires like blood dragons survive into the new world?

>>52407145
Are you me?

I'm also starting a skellies and ghost army with no fleshy bits.

>>52407835
Yes, vampires are a subfaction under Death. The curse is also intermittently referred to as 'the Soulblight', but other than being copyright-friendly it's fairly interchangeable with 'vampire'.

Neferata and Mannfred are still kicking around, and the chicks crewing a Coven Throne are still referred to in warscrolls and fluff as 'seductive handmaidens of Neferata', so we can more or less assume Lahmians are still canon. One of the Mannfred or Nagash books describes a bunch of Blood Knights as having been trained by a figure heavily implied to be Abhorash, so I assume the Blood Dragons are still around too, although again, maybe not under that name.

>>52407057
LOLF. Go and play the game dude, he's explained what usually happens on the boards and then you go NUUH! on him. Mediocre.

Does anyone think that the Vampires from the Coven throne would look alright as Necromancers? I want to get more bang for my buck out of the Start collecting kit and I'll be making a Mortis Engine.

>>52403881
Please do exercise some caution when you browser 1d4chan. A lot of shit on there is patently untrue or incredibly skewed. Most of the lore information is misrepresented for memes and the tacticas are often written by people who don't play those armies.

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>>52408208
Just looking on the website, and someone's already done the same. Or at least, they used the vampires as solo models. And to answer your question, not really. Don't look particularly like spooky wizards to me.

>>52408275
Those are the Banshees from the Mortis Engine anon, not the Coven Throne Vampires.

Everyone says Gore-Gruntas suck, but Gorefist seems kinda strong.

>>52408275
Hmm. How about using the reclining vampire for the Mortis Engine and then having the Mortis Necromancer was a single model?

>>52408381
Alright so, the Coven Throne Vampires are posed to be seated on the Coven Throne. If you want them as single figures you'll need to put something on the base they can sit on, or use legs from another miniature and then attach the rest of the CTV torsos/arms/heads.

Something worth pointing out is that they're very small in scale when compared to the rest of GW's 'heroic scale' minis, so you'll need to find very slim legs if you want to go down that route. They're very nice models, I think they'll end up looking more like Vampire Lords on foot rather than Necromancers though. The Mortis Necromancer again has a cloak designed to flow down the stairs of the Mortis Engine, so you'll either need to base him appropriately or hack off the end of his cloak.

>>52406931
The 6x4 field is continuous which leads to an Infinite possibility of positions for even a single Model. You are clearly not good enough at math to be that autistic about it.

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>>52397375
General's Handbook 2.0 when?

>>52406931
Oh god its the math fag again. Weren't you BTFO'd earlier?

>>52408312
Gore-fist makes them playable but they aren't really great even then.

>>52408477
No, he just gave up because you're obviously some pig-headed moron that failed high school algebra.

>>52408465
>finite space
>finite model base area
>infinite possibilities

lol no

You might want to find out what "infinite" means.

>>52408512
You realize that Chess is played on a 8x8 tile field with the same 6 figures and is not even close to being mathematically solved, right? Or take go, a game on a discrete tile field with only ONE piece that computers were so bad in they still lost against humans like a year ago. But surely we can easily and correctly Balance AoS.

>>52408517
0-1 is a finite space between two numbers yet there are infinite numbers in between, you can also find infinite 0.1 intervalls between 0 and 1 as well

>>52408517
A plane 6x4 field in R^2 is bounded but not finite you idiot

>>52408512
And yet I have not devoted my life to solving a pulpy miniature game with calculus and bragging about it on a Malaysian Acupuncture image board.

>>52397375
Ever since AoS came out I instantly quit WHF and never looked back. I realize now I was already kinda bored with WHF and never gave it a chance so I figured I'd come ask here, how does this game play? From what I remember it had no set rules or something?

>>52408404
Thank you, that's very helpful!

I think I'll separate the necromancer and make him his own set of stairs, he'll look nice and tall and imposing then. I wonder if the two sitting vampires would look alright on horseback, riding like ladies used to when wearing dresses.

>>52408643
They certainly will, in fact I used one of the sitting bodies to do exactly that. Good luck, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

>>52408614
It's quick and easy to pickup with 4 pages of rules but it still has a decent amount of strategic depth. It used to not have points and army lists but they solved that with the General's Handbook. Seems to be fairly balanced as a lot of tournaments show all 4 grand alliances in the top 4 and GW regularly updates points and balances armies based on tournament results.

>>52407283
It's getting there. Needs more books and time.

>>52408664
Oh so they added points again, cool. Might make the drive to play again.

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>>52408658
Thanks! I'm not picking up the start collecting for a few weeks, but I'll post WiP when I do.

Have my WiP Tomb Banshee though.

>>52407283
Unfortunately... not really.
Or maybe, more accurately, the BL books aren't very good. I bought into the hype over City of Secrets, and that shit was written by a 8year old. But some of the fluff in the battle tomes is pretty good. Flesheater courts was particularly good. But there is still no stellar AoS author or series.

>>52408312
Gore fist makes you pay out the ass for a turn one charge. Can it be useful? Yes. Is it if your opponent deploys well? No.

>>52407201
>Your ad lapidem responses are patantly and redundantly tiresome.

1. "Hey look ma, I repeated his words back at him! I'm so CLEVER!!!!1!"

2. Alright fuckface, if everything is reducible to math, reduce the human condition to math.

What's that? You can't? Fancy that.

>>52408851
Go easy on him, he's 12 and probably has discovered hard science for the first time. He will soon evolve into a fedora tipping atheist.

>>52408971
Damn. I probably would've gone easier on him if I'd thought of that. Mockery and derision is what causes people to ignore an argument and draw into themselves, thus ignoring others. So yeah, I may have sped up his evolution instead of halting it.

Plus, for the second point, I probably should've gone with a less holistic philosophical quandary to tell him to solve, as that one would just get him to dismiss me and my argument instead of actually putting some thought into it.

Live and learn, I guess.

Any of you guys who plays Hinterlands? If so tell me about your warband.

>>52408851
Max kek
Fuck that going easy on him shit. Some people just need a good ass whooping anyway

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>>52409363
Knight-Questor Ascus Summergale and his merry band of Hunters.
From left to right:
- Morus Cloudcutter, a very aggressive and vengeful former Outrider for the Freeguilds in the wilds of the Ghurlands
- Ara Mistveil, who spent her life harrying a Bloodbound warband that had ravaged her Aqshian city before succumbing to age and injuries
- Falmorus Welkintread, artillery observer that died delaying a pack of fleshhounds threatening to overrun a key defensive position at Phoenicium
- Ascus Summergale, for whom very little has changed since being reforged, as he was a knight traveling the realms righting wrongs and protecting the innocent even before that
The group was sent to find seven chalices scattered across the realms as part of an attempt to remake a mystical weapon that had been broken down into said chalices. Due to Ascus' kind nature they find themselves often helping out those that cannot help themselves.

>>52409548
Nice paintjob dude, but holy shit I cannot stop laughing, their legs looks so tiny comparing with fat bodies

>>52409548
>knights falling off rocks

>>52405072
What shoots better than crossbows 20" 2 shots at 2+/3+ for 10 points each with general+state troops.
Tank does seem high compared to a Treelord or weak compared to Thundertusk.

>>52409363
I don't have a picture of them, but I am playing with a Nurgle Daemon warband called the Band of Bile, lead by the herald Bilemaw. In the warband itself we have 6 Plaguebearers and a swarm of Nurglings.

They are travelling the lands in search of new ways to spread plague and ruin. To the mortal realms

>>52397618
This is why i hate GW and their fucking love for space marines and dorfs...

>>52408312
10 Brutes are just better than 6 boars and you get more stuff as well. A fully supported 10 man brute unit deals like 35 wounds before saves per turn even without adding the megaboss.

>>52402034
Warrior brotherhood was lost in the last Battletome and phased out. You can't take it anymore.

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>>52407529
Horde bloodbound orcs

>>52407040
>There is no possible solution you can offer that can balance a game purely with statistics accounting for all the variables that exist. Many abilities have variables with no quantifiable aspect, or a situational skill that only gets any kind of value under certain circumstances.

If you had watched the video you would know how it is possible. But since you're more interested in defending this >>52405972 method of doing things and unwilling to open your mind to the evidence in front of you I guess you'll never know.

>>52409948
>Warrior brotherhood was lost in the last Battletome and phased out. You can't take it anymore.

the warscroll for the formation still exists and still has points in the GHB and the FAQ states you can use any version of any warscroll. You can still take it.

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>>52397375
PRAISE KEK

>>52410267
With the death of Azyros it's mostly pointless anyway.

>>52410267
The widely trashed and ridiculed video you mean?

>>52410297
>With the death of Azyros it's mostly pointless anyway.

if you can get your hands on the old warscroll, shouldn't be hard, then according to the official FAQ "you can use any version of any warscroll". so Azyros is not dead.

>>52410315
like I said here
>>52406185
>the application of math to the problem of balance in AOS is an irrationally hated and mocked pursuit

I know that its hated but that doesn't make it untrue.

>>52410329
Sure, RAW that's how it goes, but I feel like it's blatant assfaggotry to do that.

>>52397618
ALELEVESVES BTFO.

HAHAHA

>>52405703
Which dwarf lord are we talking about?

If it's the named character at the top of the thread, it really isn't all that more powerful then the SCE Ghal Maraz but slightly more power full then the Karl Franz version.

Brok Grungson's Aethermatic Saw is 1"/ 4 / 3+ / 2+ / -2 / 3 damage assuming his 3+ abillity goes off.

Celestant Prime's Ghal Maraz is 2" / 2 / 3+ / 2+ / -3 / 3 damage if you deploy him 1st round. This Ghal Maraz becomes superior after the first round, gaining 2 attacks each turn.

Karl Franz's Ghal Maraz is 1" / 3 / 4+ / 3+ / -2 /3 damage.

Why wont gws release more shit.

>>52410617
Yeah new dwarf are garbage tier if this guy is more than 150 points desu.

>>52407057
Please tell me how this star drake is retreating and charging again in the same turn. Remember if he retreats he cannot charge. Also this list can get alpha'd if they don't get first turn. Wanderers can alpha it with their good friend the hurricanum. A few cannons can take take it down a few pegs before it even moves.
Kunnin rukk can get remove it with 120 shots and if they go pure bonesplittaz then all the magic they get to buff up the boyz with +1 to hit and reroll and exploding shots. And if general destruction then you got spear chuckas and bellowing tyrant for a kunnin rukk. Death won't be able to alpha you but until ghb 2 they will just tarpit it with necro knights that will never die. Chaos can just bring hell cannons though they are expensive they can do the work of killing off his buffers or just focus on the Drake since they only deal in mortal wounds.

>>52410713
Trying to hard, mate.

>>52405486
>We don't know how the transport rules work yet do we? If they are anything like 40k flyer rules or if they have fireports I can see this ending poorly.
We know that more than one unit can be carried at once (I am guessing it works of model count), that embarked models can't do anything until they get off and if the ship is destroyed, embarked units can take damage.
We also know that the biggest ship can hold at least 18 models. I am going to guess it can hold a maximum of 20, since that is a nice round number.

Other than that, we don't know specifics.

>>52410267
You sadly didn't respond to any of my points, I will try again:
-Neither chess nor go are solved mathematically (not even in the "a bishop is worth x pawns" way), and they are much simpler than AoS.
-There are infinite possibilities of position on a 6x4 plane for a circle, so you will never "solve" even the most simple boardstates of AoS (unless you have a very specific loss function that is).

There is a reason every asymmetrical competitve game has balance updates, and the reason is not that you are much smarter than everybody else.

>>52407201
>because if it is finite, then it is quantifiable.
False
How do you even get to this conclusion, its remarkably stupid

>>52410798
>Please tell me how this star drake is retreating and charging again in the same turn.
Knight Heraldor (aka the meta crusher)

>Also this list can get alpha'd if they don't get first turn
The stardrake list can't be killed by alpha strikes because the list is only 1 deployment while every viable alpha strike list is multiple drops.

>Kunnin rukk can get remove it with 120 shots
LOL you clearly dont understand what the Stardrake + 4 Castellant list is doing

Mirrorshield gives enemies -2 to hit in the shooting phase. Without buffs your orruks literally can't hit the stardrake.

With 4 +1 save buffs the Stardrake will have a 2+ rerollable save no matter how much Rend you have (there isn't enough Rend in the game to reduce that save)
Then every time the Stardrake rolls a 3+ to save it heals a wound. So the stardrake ignores 35 out of every 36 shots you throw at it, and heals a wound for ~23 of those 35 shots.

The stardrake takes the command trait that ignores mortal wounds on a 5+. Good luck doing 16 mortal wounds when he ignores 1 in 3.

The stardrake has a 12" fly move and can run + charge (thank you Heraldor) so his threat range is massive, so he can easily avoid most sources of mortal wound shooting like Stormfiends or Tzeentch spells then engage when he wants.

>Death won't be able to alpha you but until ghb 2 they will just tarpit it with necro knights that will never die.
Cant tarpit a flying unit that can retreat + charge.

> Chaos can just bring hell cannons
Mirrorshield means your hellcannons are hitting on 5+ (6+ if you move) and then he ignores 1/3 of the damage they do.
You can kill his support heroes but Hellcannons don't fit into any battalions so you'll never go first with that list. Stormcast have multiple ways to snipe the hellcannon crew on the first turn.

>>52410840
I am hoping that the transport ability isn't class exclusive so that I can get some extra mobility out of my regular dispossessed units but I am guessing that it will only work with the steamers.

>>52411128
Okay so we're up to 6 heroes. So half a list is 1000 points. 300 in cheapest Battleline. Leaving 700 points left for other units. How does this list hold any objectives? It seems to be putting a lot of eggs in one basket. I forgot that chaos has access to the flying mortal wound bomb that is Sayl with 6 storm fiends. 18" move + 8-9" with their flamers.

I still overall think it's just okay. It's a trick and taking advantage of stormcast getting several prayer like and spell like abilities they can cast for free with no downsides. Would care to see how it would do in a big tourney with everyone bringing competitive lists.

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>>52408275
>those models

>>52411315
You don't need to immediately grab objectives to win a game. Tomb Kings just kill the enemy army in 2 turns.

Sayl + Stormfiends is still a fixed threat range of 26". Stardrake can play around it.

>>52411128
You kill the knight heraldor. BLAM! Metacrusher got crushed.

>>52411366
And the opposing player can play around the stardrake. You're literally sacrificing 1/2 of the list with your one-trick pony. Fuck the drake, kill the lords and the knight. Then Problem solved.

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Wait

These guys are battleline?

>>52411396
Only if you stick to Deathlords.

So those varients, the Mortarchs and Nagash.

>>52411391
One trick pony isnt inherently bad

Tomb Kings use 12 Necro Knights and throw every buff in the game on that unit, and it's objectively the best list in the game

>>52410855
>You sadly didn't respond to any of my points,

you're arguing with a strawman because none of your "points" are relevant and or unaddressed with the method I outlined here >>52406332


I am happy you are so passionate about the subject but its hard to take you seriously when you don't even understand my method.

>>52411367
Damn its so simple why didnt I think of that........

>>52411621
If you just give points value to average damage, average save and other stuff that is explicitly on the warscroll, you will not achieve any kind of balance - honestly I think you just don't understand the game well enough, this is why my points look like a straw man to you. If you cannot predict how games play out, you cannot balance a game. This is why games are balanced by playtestig (because correctly obtaining "real" values of stuff is intractable) and this is the best way to approximate it.

>>52411679
Because you thought it was a viable strategy without thinking. Screw the drake, kill the rest. Literally half the list are six models.

>>52410855

I will humor you with a little of the spoon feeding you seem to need so badly since you so stubbornly refuse to watch the hour long explanation it took to do the subject justice. It isn't simple, but it isn't hard either, but it is complicated.

>Neither chess nor go are solved mathematically (not even in the "a bishop is worth x pawns" way), and they are much simpler than AoS.

AOS has quantifiable unit characteristics that chess pieces don't. You know that. You also know that those quantifiable AOS unit characteristics can go a long ways towards painting a solid mathematical picture of the units properties. I said a long ways because there is no purely objective math based solution, you have to use some subjective judgment. The bridge between what is possible with a pure objective math solution and a viable points scheme for the AOS platform is the thoughtful, uniform application of subjective variables. It is complicated but the video is loaded with examples of how to do it in a way that can be applied fairly and uniformly across the entire range of units in AOS. I really recommend you actually watch the video to get the whole explanation. a couple sentences typed out in a tiny 4chan box is a shitty way to communicate any complicated idea.

>There are infinite possibilities of position on a 6x4 plane for a circle, so you will never "solve" even the most simple boardstates of AoS (unless you have a very specific loss function that is).

trying to brute force a solution like that is a terrible approach that won't work without super computer level resources to run the simulations. I don't propose that, and it isn't necessary.

>>52411755
>why my points look like a straw man to you

they look like straw man because they are the definition of straw man.

You aren't addressing the substance of the method I put forward. You are making arguments against ideas that aren't even relevant to the method I proposed.

I really want to take you seriously but its hard because you don't even understand what it is you're arguing against.

new thread time

>>52411865
>>52411865
>>52411865

>>52411835
I watched about 10 minutes of your video in excel, skipping through most of it. If you can't condense your idea on one page, it probably is bad or you didn't understand it well enough (see how publications on literally any subject have a one paragraph abstract that at least conveys the basic idea of the approach). If you can't convince me there is merit in your idea without me watching 90 minutes of you doing basic excel, this is your fault, not mine.

>>52411907
>one paragraph abstract that at least conveys the basic idea of the approach

this is my abstract:

>You also know that those quantifiable AOS unit characteristics can go a long ways towards painting a solid mathematical picture of the units properties. I said a long ways because there is no purely objective math based solution, you have to use some subjective judgment. The bridge between what is possible with a pure objective math solution and a viable points scheme for the AOS platform is the thoughtful, uniform application of subjective variables. It is complicated but the video is loaded with examples of how to do it in a way that can be applied fairly and uniformly across the entire range of units in AOS.

What's the point of playing death when the subfactions are so small and when GW is only care about Chaos and Order, anyway.

>>52412116
you dont play subfactions and have one of the strongest armies in the game

>>52412015
>uniform application of subjective variables
But this is impossible

Subjective and quantifiable are mutually exclusive concepts

>>52410267
>FAQ states you can use any version of any warscroll

Yes or no, this line ain't written for GHB nor matched play, what you claimed is questionable.

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>>52408643
Hey anon, if it helps, I just got into things a few months ago. I bought some skeletons off of a friend to begin with, and he threw in an Empire battle wizards box - he used one for silver tower, and wanted me to have them. So, using it, I created a custom necromancer (I call him Karr Grimskull) - and I freaking love him. The flame head is a bit from the kit as well, literally everything about him was in the kit, and I honestly think he looks badass as hell. Hope it helps with some ideas of yours, would love to see the final results, have fun!

>>52412349
>strongest armies in the game
summoning is too overpowered, how can anyone call it fun and balanced?

>>52411396
Holy shit those models are terrible..