/osrg/ OSR General - Monster Party Edition

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>>52307099
We have a party of kobolds going on at the moment.

The leader is a witch doctor that wears her master's skull as a hat, casts Command spells by means of voodoo dolls, and generally tries to make herself look stronger than she is.

There's a cleric that hates ranged weapons after her friend got killed by a crossbow, found a like mind in Tempus, and somehow he decided to start sending spells to her. She fights by beating the shit out of the enemy with a shovel.

There's a dim, kindly fighter that's so strong he keeps breaking shit by accident. He carries the paw of his beloved dead pet rabbit, Lennie, around his neck.

There are hirelings: a suicidal pretty boy, a senile old grandma, a highly enthusiastic girl, a heartbroken archer, and a scarred sapper.

And then there's the elven rogue that has the miserable lot in life in having to herd these assholes around.

>>52307223
Anyone haves the pdf for owl hoot trial?

Also is donjon OSR?

>>52307463
Pretty sure OSR is less system and more mindset.

>>52307558
What is the OSR mindset?

>>52307582
Go down to dungeons, be clever, avoid unnecessary fights, and loot everything that isn't nailed down.

>>52307582
nethack
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# @ #
# #
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>Post your monster PCs!

One of my players played a halfling-turned-duck-thing last session. Does that count?

>>52307463

Seconding this. Owl Hoot Trail is really neat-looking.

Is floor 2 of Tomb of the Serpent Kings getting posted soon?

So does anyone have a quick tutorial for CritKeeper?

I am a regular GM for my own OSR group but would also someday like to play in something but I'm too racked with anxiety to play over something like Roll20, so Critkeeper seemed the right kinda platform for me since it seems text focused. Do a lot of people run stuff on it?

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I made some custom renamed and tweaked starting spell list here, with an emphasis on showing players how they can fluff their spells and make their MU unique without relying on mechanical differences.

I think it's quite good myself.

>>52307582
Player skill, not player character skill.

>>52308117
What's CritKeeper?

>>52308518
Wouldn't this also count out interesting PC personalities and roleplay?

Spellslayer for B/X

HD, advancement and saving throws as a MU.
9INT and 9DEX required. Both are Prime R.

+can use leather armor, daggers, staff, short sword
+thief skills
-can't use MU-specific items
-can't prepare spells from a book, but instead you get:

1st level
+detect magic once/day
OR
+spell slay. on a successful hit, the target caster saves; on a fail they can't cast spells for 1 day per Spellslayer level

2nd level
+Shield once/day
OR
+Alter self once/day

3th level
+Blind once/day
OR
+Dispel once/day

etc etc.

Each level you also get to choose ONE from a previous level (so you can stack uses/day for your fav spells).

Y/N?

>>52307558

True, but OSR is also about compatibility. Being able to take things printed for one OSR system and import them to another is one of the best parts of the OSR. There's decades worth of stuff that you can use, all ready to go.

>>52308519
The chat based OSR game thing in the OP Pastebin.

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>>52308636
Does this need to be it's own class? Is there something stopping you from just using the kit?

I'm writing an urban dungeon crawl and could use some sewer encounters. Any ideas?

I've already got ghouls, trolls, all manner of rats (mentally connected to an insane rat king), slimes and jellies, ghosts, treasure hunters and trash looters, giant spiders in war with the rats, and special encounter: roll on the outer planes chart instead (the ancient temple down here was knee-deep in weird blasphemous shit).

>>52307582
bring a ten foot pole

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>>52308883

>>52308810
Three reasons: simplicity, B/X compatability, and balance (with B/X classes, and specially with the very-low-power MUs).

>>52308620
Only if you don't have any skill.

>>52309052

This. Being mechanically simple only prevents the character from being mechanically interesting, which is the least interesting way of being an interesting character.

>>52309026
Ah, >>52308636
• Take out pick locks (they get Knock)
• Take out climb walls (they get Fly)
• Add Silence 15' to their spell options
• -10% move silently to compensate
• -10% hide in shadows? (they get Blind, Scare, and Forget)
No need to slow thief skill growth though, since leveling at MU co rates already dies that.

>>52309153
I've argued this at my club for so many years but only now have I seen it articulated in such a concise way.

>>52309153
I mean I understand that, I'm just saying that player skill instead of character skill would mean you'd need to directly involve yourself in the game, instead of letting your character do it. Wouldn't this break what character they might have?

>>52309179
Nah, you'd end up replacing all skills for spells (hide>invisibility). I like it better when it's complementary.
I also like that you do thievy stuff constantly, but magic stuff occasionally - otherwise you'd end up only doing thievy stuff x times/day (and thief skills are already a one-time roll in B/X). Makes sense?

They get something like Silence in the pdf posted above, but I didn't found it in my spell list so I just shoved a Dispel in there.

>>52309179
Actually, scratch that:

Min. 9 INT, 9 DEX (both are Prime Req.)
HD as MU, xp as MU
Saves as Thief (v. Spells as MU)
+can use leather armor, sling, dart, staff, dagger, jambiya, knife, and short
sword
+permanent Detect Magic (MU spells only, no magic items, natural wonders, etc.)
+Knock once/day/level
+find/remove traps (as half Thief %, or full % v. magic traps)
+pick pockets (as Thief %, filches spell components if available)
+Silence 15' while moving silently (as Thief +10%)
+hide in shadows (as Thief %)
+gain 1 spell/day from this list
+pick 2 more each level up
• Alter Self
• Armor (min. level 3)
• Blind
• Burning Hands (min. level 3)
• Dispel Magic (min. level 2)
• Fly (min. level 5)
• Forget
• Shield
• Unseen Servant
+all spells can be cast in Silence 15'
-otherwise, they're loud as balls
-can't use any magic items

Alright, so I know Dragonlance is often hailed as the setting that ruined everything. But is it possible to run a LotR / Epic Fantasy inspired game while still being OSR approved?

>>52310013

Maybe, but I think it's a poor fit for the system. I think there are a lot of systems better suited to that sort of thing now - I hear Burning Wheel does an excellent job once you get over the steep learning curve.

>>52310013
>>52310066
Yeah, Burning Wheel's pretty great for it.

In general OSR is about having a lot of dungeon crawls, stealing a lot of gold, the most heroic of heroic fantasy. It won't do high fantasy so well.

>>52307249 here again.
The GM had to drop. Anyone here want to take over? Put a post on gamefinder:
>>52310181

what's the status on the trove?

does /osrg/ have an opinion on spelljammer?

>>52310338

TroveGuy's missing. Nobody seems to have imported it to their Mega. Nobody's stepped forward to rebuild it.
I'd do it but I already run too many archives

>>52310489
No, but I like it. It's a shame how no one ever explains the setting well.

>>52310491
if you have a copy, i'll host it. i can post my private email and you can direct email me the link and i'll mirror it

>>52310338
>>52310601


Take one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV-nOQzb6S8

Add a cup of Star Trek.
Add a drop of Fallen London.
Star Wars, Alien, Predator, and other sci-fi themes of your choice optional but strongly recommended.

Mix in a Sword & Sorcery bowl. Sprinkle lightly with D&Disms turned inside-out. Add a half-cup of D&D settings. For added flavor, add blackpowder guns.

>>52310601

That's because it's a bad setting.

>>52310489
i bought it for twenty bucks last year, but i've never read it because i've heard it represents the worst sins of 2e

>>52310816
I suppose being created to spite Lorraine Williams would do that.

>>52310735
>>52310816
>>52310832

The sins of the system are not the sins of the setting. It's a fun read. It's not high art or anything, but as long as you avoid the strident 2e bits and the excessive mechanical focus, you can draw some pretty fun stuff out of it. I'm fond of the Elven Armada specifically for being a big ol' slap in the face to the concept of Elven Superiority.

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>>52310719
Spelljammer is fantasy Age of Sail.
Not sci-fi. It's only ostensibly in space.

>>52310899
Most mainstream Sci-fi may as well be fantasy though.

>>52310642

Sadly I deleted it because the other archives I was running needed space. I kept meaning to make a second account and mirror the Trove, but there was always something else more important to be done.

>>52310938
You're not wrong, but that doesn't justify calling Spelljammer sci-fi.

>>52311050
I don't think anyone called Spelljammer sci-fi.

I've been working on a world lately that I'm going to be developing as the players move through it using a Hexgrid. But I want to figure out stuff like tone and rules of the world figured out first.

What makes a good OSR world and setting?

Should magic be inordinately rare or fairly common? I've been going for rare overt magic, common subtle magic for that one

How many humanoid races is too many? Should I stick with the basics or go all Mos Eisley Cantina to sell the strangeness of the world? I was looking through random tables from Judges Guild stuff and similar products and it all had a lot of variation in humans alone that were strange.

Other questions I haven't thought to ask yet!

>>52311083
You're about right with magic: I like to do it that way too, with few wizards and few magic items, but plenty of strange fey shit and unexplained phenomena.

With races, I'd suggest starting the game with every character and everyone around them as humans, then eventually as they arrive to some wretched hive, suddenly drop in all the weirdness: bring in the elves, the orcs, the Wilderlands blue people and hawkmen, just drown them to that shit!

That way it'll be strange and unusual for players -and- the characters.

where does the osr obsession with hexes come from? is there any situation where hexes outperform a grid?

>>52311193
Pretty much all of them. Grids are irregular and absolute shite with distances whenever you go even remotely disgonally.

>>52311193
I use them for traveling the countryside and other macro tasks. But other than that I usually have square gridded area maps, rough sketches, or none at all and narrative combat it.

>>52310899
>>52311050

I didn't call Spelljammer sci-fi. I said you add sci-fi elements and themes because it's a wild mix of common sci-fi themes and concepts (the Scro are straight Klingons, but as orcs) and Age of Sail.

Honestly just show somebody Treasure Planet and say "OK, but all the robots are golems and the ships run on magic and there are wizards."

That's pretty much all you need.

>>52311135
That seems like a good approach, mirrors the Hero's Journey too with the meeting of all the weird folk as a "Crossing of the Threshold" I really like it.

>>52310735
Shut your whore mouth.

>>52311274
Make sure to have the first thing they meet be two antagonizing monster watchmen.

>>52310735
But open your whore pussy.

>>52311300
They aren't the adventurers they'd be looking for.

>>52310489
Some ideas I really like, some I think are dumb, pants on heads retarded cosmology and world builder's disease trying to make everything fit together. Works better if you salvage the parts you like rather than trying to take it as anything cohesive.

>>52311520
So are you talking about Spelljammer, or AD&D?

>>52311544
AD&D as a whole has the best cosmology ever and I'll fight anyone that claims otherwise.

>>52311520

>consistency and internal logic is a disease

Okay, what? When did this stupid meme start? I mean Spelljammer isn't a shining beacon of consistency or internal logic, but where the fuck did "worldbuilder's disease" come from and why are stupid people trying to pretend like internal logic is a bad thing?

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>>52311624

Not him, but as far as I understand it, "worldbuilder's disease" isn't about logic and consistency, it's about fetishizing those things to the point that your world starts to feel less real and more like a theme park with all the natural corners meticulously rounded off.
See pic related for a satire.

How do PCs find treasure? (in B/X and family)

The so-called Unguarded Treasure. As I understand it, btb PCs are -always- poking at shit with the 10' pole -- if there's something and it's not Secret, they find it.

This is a bit arcadey, like pacman: move in maze, get shiny, avoid baddies. But I sort ot prefer it over asking for a roll constantly...

When I think about it, I feel the Avenger does a better job of being a "villain fighter" or black knight than an Antipaladin

Antipaladin is too blunt for my taste, like it's literally just the fucking opposite of the Paladin. Not that I'm saying everything has to be deep and complex, but I feel like Avenger makes a perfect evil knight character who has monsters do his bidding, like Kane from Shining Force or something. It's just like a classic evil warrior tempted by the forces of chaos without literally being "DEMONS AND UNDEAD AND DEMONS AND UNDEAD AND DEMONS"

How do you guys feel about antipaladins and avengers?

>>52312021
The majority of unguarded treasure is secret treasure.
Otherwise monsters would have nicked it ages ago.

>>52312021

I just leave it lying around. Depending on the treasure of course. Most of it would be in a chest tucked away in a corner, perhaps under a bit of rubble or hidden by an intelligent monster.

IMHO Half the fun of OSR is creating non-combat challenges around actually getting the treasure. It's in a heavy chest, how will you carry it out? It's NOT in a heavy chest, it's just a bunch of coins on the floor, do you have something to carry them in? The treasure is a single but fragile item, or several items that are only worth anything in a full set so you have to make sure not to lose them.

Speaking of which; would it be too asshole-DM tier if I made all the coins in my setting porcelain? Kind of random, but I wanted a rule where whenever you take blunt damage like from a hammer or a fall, the damage you take is multiplied by 10 and you lose that many coins.

>>52312079
>I made all the coins in my setting porcelain
That porcelain had better be fine enough to see through.
>would it be too asshole-DM tier if
No, but you're on the right track:
If enough breaks at once, the haunted bone ash collectively forms a wight.

>>52311624
Not that guy but after like 13 years of people trying to make their settings super complex with incredibly logic based magic systems and explanations for the origins of every monster, sometimes I just want shit to exist or happen for unexplained reasons to let my imagination go wild.

Like magic and fantasy have just stopped feeling magical and fantastical now that everybody is thinking up fucking novels to explain the most mundane shit in their setting.

>>52312035
Let your players come up with something creative instead of spoonfeeding them cookie-cutter options?

>>52312072
Nah, lots of treasure is simply concealed. Some is obvious, some not.

>>52312079
Cool idea, but let them have the XP anyway -- you get the XP (fun) but you don't have to think in what to spend all the extra cash (boring). 10/10.
Broken coins have use as coppers, to pay for ale, tip barmaidens and the likes.

>>52312179
Damn right.

>>52312219
>Let your players come up with something creative instead of spoonfeeding them cookie-cutter options?

Nah this wasn't for players, I was just looking at the Avenger from Rules Cyclopedia and thought "man that works better as a classic archetype than the blackguard ever did".

Thoughts on the EX modules? I own Dungeonland and I just picked up Land Beyond the Magic Mirror, but I've never had a chance to run or play either.

>>52312483
How did you get characters to level 9?

I never get to run the high-level modules because our games and player groups implode by 3rd level.

>>52312506

Like I said, I've never had a chance to run or play either one.

I've never gotten a party to level 9. I got them because I'm a bit of a collector and I dig Lewis Carroll.

I just wanted to hear general opinions on the modules.

>>52312179
>>52312219

>magic stopped being a plot device and started having rules

I mean, on the one hand, sure, I can get behind that. Mythology is cool and we like mythological magic. I am all for "Odin did a thing, it doesn't need fucking spell levels, you moron."

On the other hand, Jesus Christ does it make me angry when somebody uses magic as a shorthand for something "just because." Yeah, I don't need reams of paper to explain everything in the setting.

"lol it's magic who cares it's fantastical" is just as bad as "too much explanation." One is a lazy fucking crutch, the other is too much work into a relatively minor detail (unless the nature of magic literally drives the plot, in which case, okay).

>>52312645
Magic should be internally consistent and have its own rules, but if those rules are too strict and become "laws" then it's just a fancy word for fantastic science.

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Instead of spells scaling with caster level, or scaling if placed into a higher spell slot like 5e does it, I purpose spell research rules to allow players to actually find and/or make spells that are more powerful then normal.

Use Magic Missile as an example. Deals 1d4 damage and cannot miss. It doesn't matter what level you are when you cast it, it doesn't get bonus die to its attack. But you could research or find a more rare form of magic missile, which is Greater Magic Missile which deals 2d4 damage for instance.

This essentially gives the Wizard character the same sort of equipment-based drive as the Fighter, and you could also tie in other aspects. It's powerful, but you can lose it. Make rules that basically say you can't just copy spells from a spellbook easily, it's too dangerous or mystical for that. So instead the magic user may lose their good spells with their spellbook in case that happens.

What do you think? Interesting gameplay change?

>>52312733
Sounds like kind of a hassle with fairly little worthwhile in it.

I'd do the opposite, in fact, and make all spells a lot more powerful when cast by a higher-level wizard, like how DCC does it.

>>52312781

Except that removes the mechanics for Wizards to build up their grimoire. Level 20 Fighters should be good at fighting in general, but it's the magic items they find that make them really strong even if its something they could lose. In the same way, Wizards should have to venture to find rare and powerful spells that can be lost, but offer advanced magical powers.

Wizards are already supposed to delve to find magic spells but once they learn it they will always have a copy of it back at home base pretty much, so it becomes a permanent part of their character instead of a rare resource to be treasured.

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>>52307223
Xorn cleric
Xorn magic-user
Xorn thief
Male Human Fighter

Josh, you suck.

>>52313185
...wouldn't they eat all the treasure?

>>52313185
>the one dude not playing a meme character is somehow the one that sucks

>>52313185

Sounds like the intro to one of 'those' harem animes.

>>52313381
Every party needs a straight man.

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>>52307223
>Post your monster PCs!

Feels like I post these guys a lot, but here we go again.

They're fun. Tito just lost a leg and all his remaining dignity though.

>>52308126
Pretty neat. I'll post some notes in a bit.

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>>52313546

Did you add Fuzzy since last time? I don't remember him when I last saw this image.

Funny coincidence but I sort of wanted to make sheepmen a beast race in my setting.

>>52313546
Ayyyyyyy..... >>52307845?

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>>52306379
>Not sure if you want to use camp followers as the terminology. That generally implies prostitutes and possibly carters who want to sell extra supplies to an army.

That's pretty much exactly how I use it. You think the a party of 5, with 2 or 3 henchmen and 15 or so hirelings, is going to go into town for everything? To hell with that. Someone's going to turn up with meat pies, beer, and genitals for sale or rent.

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>>52313642
Sorry, missed your post. I'm working on it, but the party took a sort of weird route exploring it, so I may need to make a few adjustment. They've stopped checking my blog though, so I think I'm OK to post it soon.

I'm working on a "What does the Elemental Want" post at the moment, so it might not be ready until Friday.

>>52313635
Fuzzy has always been in there. It's the same image.

I tried not to include "conventional" species in the table to avoid the (inevitable) furry/Welsh/etc. jokes. So far it's worked because my group doesn't know what furries are. /tg/ has not been so kind.

>>52313684
>furry

Honestly I find it just embarrassing to everyone involved that this sort of an accusation is still brought up, like it wasn't created by the worst cesspool of the Internet more than ten years ago.

Whoever still uses the term, ironically or not, point at them and laugh.

And carry on with your awesome game.

>>52307558
eh going with mindset definitions instead of system ones never ends well(it's too subjective to be of any use), much prefer this definition;

A game or supplement is OSR if it's one or both of the following;

1.) an edition of D&D(or AD&D) published by TSR Inc(certain other games published by TSR are also counted)

2.) is broadly compatible with any TSR edition and/or anything else calling itself OSR


or to TLDR it;

>A game or supplement is OSR if interchangeable with OSR and TSR D&D.

>>52313735
t. furry

>>52313646
On a scale that small, I can't really see it.
1 or 2 hirelings selling shit on the side, maybe. But not people following just to sell.

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>>52313735
Thanks. I'm just pleased my blog is regularly getting tens of views. Tens!

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>>52313787

>>52313646
Fair enough. I imagine any prostitute or carter who's getting regular business won't mind following at a safe distance, assuming they're getting good deals, treated fairly, and there's little chance of them getting murdered in the night by monsters.

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>>52313787
A dungeon is like a gold rush town on a miniature scale. The PCs will have more money than they know what to do with. A whole secondary industry can spring up near a rich dungeon find. If you're a traveling pedlar, why not set up shop for a few days or weeks and earn ten times your usual pay? If you run a brothel in town, send one of your girls out with a guard or two and rake in the tips.

The economics are skewed because the PCs are pulling a month's wages out of the ground in an hour.

Plus, there will be people looking for alternative entrances, if the dungeon is known to have treasure in it.

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>>52313858
Also a good reason to set up a proper camp. Band together for safety. Pickaxe salesman, assayer, soothsayer, torchmaker, and prostitutes, all together in the same little camp.

If one were to combine the best elements of all the TSR editions of D&D into one quintessential OSR retroclone; what would those elements be?
List by edition.

Can you get a good war sequence going on in OSR? Since combat is dangerous as shit but doesn't give you a whole lot in exp...

>>52314290
>Basic
Race as class

>OD&D
Combat

>AD&D 2e
NWP and kits

>>52314291

That's why you let the victors raid the town/city of the losers and steal all their shit.

>>52314333
I'd take the class experience table from 2e as well. If you're counting exp instead of just giving the PCs level ups at appropriate times, you might as well go all the way with it.

>>52313185
>A Josh, playing anything but a dwarf

This isn't even about Joshua being a jewish name. Every Josh I have ever met has gone dwarf.

>>52313546
>Pretty neat. I'll post some notes in a bit.

What, notes about the spells? I'd really appreciate the feedback, thanks!

>>52314563

The Josh I play with is always some form of rape-an-orphanage-and-pee-on-the-pope cultist or holier-than-thou cleric. Those are the only two options for him.

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>>52308126
>>52313546
Comments:

The spell names are wordy and not terribly evocative, but that's just my view on it.

I like the "Sorcerer's Seal" as a concept, but the description could be condensed and de-Gygax'ed a bit.

Conveyance: what size and shape is it? Does it have AC? See the Automatic Marching Mule here: >>52297910

Seeking Projectile of the Magus: Just call it Magic Missile. I like the manifestation ideas though.

Inclement Manifestation: How much are creatures slowed? How much are they irritated? Are there penalties to attacks or movement?

>face into a scary gargoyle

Remember to keep your tone consistent. Don't switch between "Potent Foulness" and "scary". If you're being informal, be informal. If you're being formal, make sure you're formal everywhere.

I might move the examples into the main spell text, rather than having them follow in a new section.

You don't have ranges or durations for most of the spells.

I'm going to stop going through spell by spell. Is there anything this PDF adds to the basic spell list of "knock, lock, magic missile, grease, slow," etc. that isn't said in:

>Casters have signature spells. Your magic missile might appear as balls of flame or light, shards of glass, flower petals, ripples in the floor, or a ghostly whip. Magic users can identify the signatures of other magic users in their spells. You can conceal your spell signature by Saving with a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier. You can disguise your spell signature as that of another magic user's by Saving with a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier and a penalty equal to their Charisma modifier.

?

>>52315020
>I'm going to stop going through spell by spell. Is there anything this PDF adds to the basic spell list of "knock, lock, magic missile, grease, slow," etc. that isn't said in:

Well no, the point was to change all the basic spells to a universal format, without spell levels.

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>>52314662
You might not...

Sorry, but I just didn't think it was that useful. I don't think it's a significant improvement over the "originals". There are too many vague sections for it to be useable a written. The flavour is good, but it doesn't flow well.

Overall... keep going.

They say the first million words you write - that you put your best possible effort into - are going to be shit. This is part of that journey.

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>>52315059
>Well no, the point was to change all the basic spells to a universal format, without spell levels.

How do you envision people using it, then? Where does it fit into the game design/gameplay workflow?

>>52314333
NWPs were cancer. So were WPs, for that matter.

>>52315158
I mostly agree, but I do rather like the weapon mastery of Player's Option.

>>52314290
>OD&D
Basically nothing straight from this.
>Basic/BX/BECMI/RC
Race as class (though I would extend them out to full level limits) and their version of Weapon Proficiency
>1e
I really like the assassin and some of the things from Unearthed Arcana and the "Survival Guides" but nothing to really bring forward IMO
>2e
I actually like the kits and some of the optional rules, but I'd stick to just the kits personally.

>>52314333
>>52315376
>Race as class

I never saw any worth in this, yet so many retroclones and their players subscribe to it. Why? What's the reason for everyone of the same race to be so identical, when humans alone get to be fighters and mages and thieves?

>>52315471
I've never understood it either. Race-as-class could work if the race is far enough detached from humans (say, a centaur class or a beholder class or whatever) but I don't see any reason why most humanoid races couldn't be magic-users or clerics and whatnot.

>>52315526

I use Race-as-Class when I'm trying to introduce new/young players to the game, but once they're more familiar with it I "unlock" races and classes for them.

I've had to deal with players who were unable to do basic addition. Everything that removes complexity from the game is good to have as an option in some cases.

>>52315526
>I don't see any reason why most humanoid races couldn't be magic-users or clerics and whatnot.
http://buzzclaw.blogspot.co.nz/2016/12/why-elves-cant-be-clerics.html

>>52315471
>>52315526

I like the way ACKS does it, and there are two reasons for me to like race-as-class:

>Races feel more different, they have different cultures and biology, so their classes should be different;
>You only have to decide what class you wanna play instead of class + race, this reduces choice paralysis.

>>52315578
I don't see how one specific race-class combo from a specific setting invalidates the whole idea of race and class.

>>52315589
That's all very well, but there still should be more than one choice per race. So I guess ACKS gets it mostly right, even if its demihuman classes are basically built the same way human classes are, so they're not really all that alien in the end.

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I'm gonna start a LotFP hexcrawl campaign. Just start in a city via Vornheim and have players travel outwards and discover the world. Fore fantasy than the 16th century LotFP. Thing is, I want some awesome one-page-dungeons, encounters or modules that fit with the grimdark fantasy vibe.

What are some of the better things you can recommend me? Aside from actual LotFP modules.

>>52315648
>>52315625
>>52315526
>>52315471
Its more Class as Race when you think about it.
Dwarf-Dwarf
Elf-Elf
Halfling-Halfling
Figher-Man
Thief-Supernatural shadowdweller
Magic-User-Gandalf style not-human
Cleric-Chosen of the gods

>>52315648
>so they're not really all that alien in the end.

I really don't understand why /tg/ is terrified of making elves/dwarves/halflings seem even slightly alien or inhuman.

>>52316327
Makes them way harder to roleplay, get into their heads. They need to be relatable, i.e. human.

>>52316360
>Makes them way harder to roleplay
And?

>They need to be relatable
Do they really NEED to be relatable?

>>52316218
Not to start up the "Clerics were a mistake, Thieves were a mistake" thing, but your argument stopped making sense when Clerics were added.
Also, OD&D demi-humans could opt to be Thieves.

>>52316466
Relatable, as in, that you can understand how they think and where they come from.

But with that said, yeah, I'd like it if I could actually -like- my characters.

>>52316484
>you can understand how they think and where they come from.
It's possible to understand and roleplay warforged and thri-kreen. If people can roleplay PTSD robots and cannibal bully bugmen then they can handle slightly weird demihumans.

>I'd like it if I could actually -like- my characters
Your characters are murderhobos and tombrobbers who kill people then blow their money on liquor and whores. Is that likeable? Is that relatable?

>>52316327
... I'm sorry? If anything, /tg/ is too contrarian and wannabe avant-garde. The only thing that they're likely to complain about is that your fantasy races aren't strange ENOUGH.

>>52316468
>OD&D demi-humans could opt to be Thieves
I'm gonna be honest, as a BX player I just give the thief abilities to the dwarves and remove the class. I got the idea from heroquest having dwarf be better at lockpicking than a set of lockpicks. I still don't see clerics and magic-users as particularly human though and have never really been such in my games.

I always wondered, Why there isn't a cleric lite race.
Elves are Magic Users lite
Dwarves are Fighters Lite
Halflings are Thieves Lite
I feel there should be something like a Cleric.

>>52316881
>I feel there should be something like a Cleric.
Homebrew up some Aasimar or Draenei

>>52316924
Yeah, My players have been asking me if I could homebrew some other races into the game. I could try something like that.

>>52316881
We could take race-as-class to an even bigger extreme and make all adventuring humans into clerics. All adventuring must be ordained by the church, making them more like crusaders than anything.

>>52312307
>RC Avenger
How does that compare with the Domains of Dread Avenger?

>>52313546
>>52313546
>Pedantic wizards often point out that this spell is technically not a ray.
Pedantic viewers point out that it's weird for a spell to deafen AND stifle sound.

>>52315648
>there still should be more than one choice per race.

Only if those races are supposed to be numerous and players are expected to play a lot of them. If they're weird outsiders, then they don't need a lot of different classes.
And in general only one kind of elf or dwarf is going to leave their people and their home and their family and go run around with a bunch of human murderhobos and rob graves: juvenile delinquents! Rootless kids who have no proper palce in elven or dwarven society, who reject their gods and customs and go hang out with the humans, smoking cigarretes behind the Tomb of Horrors.

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>"...in the game itself, there’s precious little to suggest feudalism, Europe, chivalry, a post-imperial dark age, or even the existence of a monarchy at all. Apart from the technology suggested by the weapon list, it could just as well be a simulation of the professional meritocracy of Byzantium, or the city-state sovereignty of Barsoomian Mars. (There’s more explicit textual support in OD&D for Mars than there is for fantasy medieval Europe.)"

http://blogofholding.com/?p=7182

So D&D, as originally designed, is not very medieval. I've been thinking about ways to make it a little less... modern-feeling.

Monotheism is a good start.

What monotheistic religions dominate your games, /tg/? What spreading, centralized, churches are out there in the gamingverse?

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>>52317314
It's a fair point. I think I rephrased it better later with the Circle of Noise spell.

>>52316784
I've always liked the idea of dwarves having the mechanical skills of thieves--opening locks and dealing with traps.

>>52316881
>I feel there should be something like a Cleric.
Paladins can be clerics-lite. Though honestly, clerics are already pretty good at fighting, and don't require much XP, so fitting them in between clerics and fighters can be a bit tricky unless you depower cleric fighting ablities by a bit (restricting them to chain mail at the very least). Otherwise, paladins are in danger of becoming fighters + cleric spells. Then again, I think that elves are a bit too nice as well (though there's plenty of room between magic-users and fighters in terms of fighting prowess). Really the only big downside to elves in terms of fighting abilities is really shitty hit points.

>>52317462
Well, In my setting, God is one single entity, thing is after everything went south, People started to worship aspects of the same god, So everyone is having wars for a different interpretation of the same god.
Then there are powerful beings that try to lie to less cultured individuals telling them that he is a god, but its just a powerful Ghost, or an Earth spirit or even a Demon that gives power in exchange of servitude.

>>52317594
I was talking about Races, I mean a Paladin is a Human/Elf/Dwarf or whatever with fighter abilities and a banner of a god which lets them cast spells.
You aren't born a Paladin.

>>52317606
I feel like you were just describing Abrahamic sects.

>>52317744
Eh, its more of a Cargo Cult, but yeah.
Because God is not actually a god either, just a tool that people forgot was just a tool.

>>52317013
>You can be forgiven for thinking that OD&D is a medieval European fantasy game. After all, Gary Gygax himself says so. He describes the original D&D books as “Rules for Fantastic Medieval War Games” (on the cover) and “rules [for] designing your own fantastic-medieval campaign” (in the introduction).

DUDE DEATH OF THE AUTHOR LMAO

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>>52317606
The god is less important than the church and the ties of faith surround it, I suppose. The whole "aspects of the same god" thing isn't really the medieval framing I was hoping for.

The Church was everywhere. You couldn't be born, die, or do anything important without a priest involved. You could travel from Rome to Ireland and meet men who spoke the same language and were tied together by a vast transcontinental network.

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>>52317913
Yeah, it'd be really neat if the blog's author elaborated, point by point, on why they thought that was the case. Then we could read it and judge for ourselves whether or not that statement was true.

Maybe in some sort of essay-like format.

With notes.

Yeah. That'd be neat.

>>52318088
He's using the same logic that lead people to totally misunderstand OD&D's thief skills. It's especially silly considering that OD&D is notorious for omitting information because Gygax thought everyone would understand his idiosyncrasies. I guess M-Us don't need to memorize spells either, right? After all, it's not in the OD&D rules.

It really feels like a nerd trying to validate his love of D&D
>n-no you don't understand, ohdeeandee isn't medieval, it's fantastic americana!

>>52315088

the idea was originally to use these spells to change the game into my unlimited spell casts per day with small amount of spell slot system. If the MU takes time to prepare spells between combat they'd basically have a full arsenal, so it's important to limit really strong spells like sleep. So instead I used the Sorcery of Extreme Weakness to have the same effect, but only 1 HD a turn, which actually turned out really cool in my opinion because now you could either disable one smaller creature or weaken a big boss. Especially in games with AC and to-hit and damage bonuses scaling with monster HD.

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>>52318321
Let's break down what you're doing.

>Author is using logic that leads to [misunderstanding]
>[misunderstanding] is bad
>[other misunderstanding] is laughable.

Therefore, the author's point is bad and laughable, right? Clearly, they don't understand this game at all.

But here's the thing. I think the author is completely right. They aren't the only person saying it.

D&D is:
Not feudal.
Not lacks a monarchy and a gentry and any kind of vassal system.
Lacks a unified church.
Is based around currency and progression and social progress through wealth and prowess.

D&D does not do a very good job of actually feeling medieval. That's fine. It does a good job of being D&D. It's not a criticism (except in the fact that the title says X and the contents say Y), but it is an observation.

>>52318482

Depends
on
the
setting

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>>52318545
This
Specific
Setting
And
Rules
Kit

Come on, anon. Did you even read the article?

>>52318482
>Lacks a unified church.

>If you read OD&D carefully, you soon notice that a lot of the paraphernalia associated with clerics has Christian origins. The equipment list, for example, includes wooden and silver crosses, not the "holy symbols" of AD&D and later editions (Interestingly, there are no crucifixes, which I think is significant). The cleric's level titles include a number of specifically Christian terms (vicar, curate, and bishop). The illustrations of clerics in OD&D -- and even early AD&D -- always show them dressed in obviously Christian priestly garb. And of course many of the cleric's spells draw on Christian (and Jewish) religious writings and folklore. Indeed, the cleric's focus on defense and protection spells is, I think, more evidence of the Christian origins of the class.

http://grognardia.blogspot.co.nz/2008/12/implicit-christianity-of-early-gaming.html

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>>52318609
I guess it's always felt more like a small c church than a big C Church, but that's a fair point.

We just don't see a lot of the infrastructure. We get blacksmiths but not monks. We get jousts but not papal legates and excommunication. We don't even get feast days, fast days, penance, or sin.

Good god I am tired of players whining when they try shit and cant because of things they did.

"I light my torch!"
You just got out of water. They are soaked.

"I loot their body"
....As you're being hunted by 5 angry tribesmen. Ok. *roll* One spears you for 9 HP as you stop. Oh, you're dead."

Do I blame Skyrim?

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>>52318872
I'd blame the youths and their damn video games and their rock and roll music.

Did you discuss game expectations first?

Do you run strict timekeeping?

Do you clarify actions if they seem obviously suicidal, or like the players are acting on incomplete information that their characters would know? "You jump? Ok, but you do know it's a sixty foot drop. You're probably going to die. I did say you were in a tower, right?"

>>52318913
Yes.

Mostly.

Every time.

>>52318872
honestly it sounds like you're trying too hard to fulfill the role of the stereotypical Old School DM, might want to let up a little or you'll soon have no players at all

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>>52307223
>Post your monster PCs!
speaking of that
How would you balance a race that has flight? Say, harpies.
Feather fall at will from level 1, jump x/day at level 3, and fly x/day at level 5 is an option, but what if they were granted the ability to fly from level 1? How would you balance it?

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>>52318972
Well, then your players have failed to grasp the core concepts of the game.

You can kill their characters over and over, but eventually, it stops being fun. It's like watching an idiot play Dark Souls.

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>>52318999
Flight falls into the category of:

Darkvision
Teleportation
Passing Through Solid Objects
Water Breathing

In terms of "makes dungeons easier".

So you can do it, but one PC will get to ignore entire types of traps. You have to design around that. It's not fun or easy... unless everyone plays flying characters. Batlings, magpie men, drakelings, etc.

>>52318977
That's the thing tho! I let them get away with sooo much. I'm all about rule-of-cool, carrying the adventure on, letting shit slide etc. But it seems like any time something comes up that they cannot do because of something they did earlier, they get all huffy. Like, I know it would be bitchin' if you hadn't set off that trap just now, but the 3 clues with myriad adjectives I gave you should have made you think more.

>>52318872
>>52318977

>might want to let up a little
>player was looting an enemy's body while in combat with other enemies

Anyone who does this deserves to have their character die. There's a difference between being a 'killer DM' and a retarded player. And that player is retarded.

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>>52319036
OSR games might not be for this group then. Maybe consider realigning and building a game with different core structures? Maybe something more narrative/heroic/story-based.

>>52319068
My players aren't really gamers to be honest, except one. We've been using LotFP as a ruleset (sometimes DCC) because it's so damned simple for anyone to just pickup and the little skill system clarifies a lot of choices for them. They have fun, but I can sense the butthurt in waves when they don't feel like they're kicking ass.

I've been considering 5e, but I kind of fear even THAT might be a little too rules-invested for them to grok. Should I give it a go?

>>52318872
I mean, Even my Skyrim playing players comprehend that looting the body while getting hunted by a vampire is a bad idea.

>>52319135

5e is probably the best D&D ruleset outside of OSR stuff. Give it a try.

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>>52319135
Sit down and have a talk with them. Find out what kinds of video games they like, or what kinds of movies. Discuss genres, not game systems. Ask what their favorite moments were from your game and then choose a system and story that help enable those kind of moments.

And then go out and pick a system. This may mean learning one from scratch. That's fine. You may need to go way outside your comfort zone.

>>52318872
I'm gonna be real with you guys, because I have a similar problem.

I'm not sure where the disconnect is, either. I run a 5e game and a B/X game. My 5e party is perfectly fine despite being far more inexperienced and new to tabletop in general. My B/X party can be.. Well, they do some real dumb shit on occasion.

I can't blame Skyrim either because my 5e players grew up in that stuff. It's gotta be the players as a whole.

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>>52319676
See:
>>52319204

Only one way to figure this out.

>>52319135
5e has two HUGE selling points for new players to the tabletop scene.

First: Brand Recognition. Don't underestimate this as a selling point. Bonus points because you can point to Critical Role, The Adventure Zone and any other popular D&D media you want to give them examples.

Second: Higher power level than OSR games. It sounds like your party might enjoy getting to be badasses. 5e rules aren't that hard to learn, and the characters they make are going to be stronk compared to LotFP characters.

I'd say go with it. 5e is a good ruleset on its own.

>>52319706
I think that's gonna be my gameplan then. As much as I gravitate to OSR for its simplicity and difficulty...I think they wanna be superheroes.

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>>52319738
You can go even further, if the rules are a problem, and try out Fate Core or something. Cut out the mechanics and the leveling and all that entirely.

But FFS /talk to them first/. Get this info:
>>52319204

Or no matter what you pick, you're doing it with incomplete information. You're just guessing at what will work.

>>52319738
>...I think they wanna be superheroes.

Ask 'em before you decide to pull the rug out and rebuild the ground floor.

>>52319036
>>52319135
>>52319738
>bitch about consequences for their character's actions
>butthurt waves when they don't feel like they're kicking ass
>they wanna be superheroes

Holy shit, drop them now. Wait until they get some fucking taste before they play.

So I'm planning ahead for my LotFP group and assuming they're gonna make it out of the God That Crawls dungeon alive(with at least 1 of them alive, that is; they're already pretty close to the exit, it's just a matter of whether or not they go the right way)

Would Deep Carbon Observatory be a good next adventure? I haven't read it, but I've heard it praised a couple of times.
My other options, without doing some work to re-write existing adventures to fit in the area the players are already in, are Grinding Gear, Death Love Doom, Scenic Dunnsmouth, or making up my own dungeon to toss them into.

>>52314563
Fuck you, I actually play human fighters unironically. Stunties >>>out

>>52318872
>"I light my torch!"
> You just got out of water. They are soaked.
Pretty sure the Greeks used chemical-treated torches that wouldn't go out if you quenched them in water.

>>52319969
Yeah, DCO is a great module.

Read through it like, TWICE before playing. It's a bit chaotic and messy, but super fun.

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Any good classless rules for B/X?

>>52317462
I have a straight up Talos/Tiber Septim expy from Elder Scrolls, except he killed a dragon and ate it's heart, formed an empire, and canonized heathen gods into saints. His religion was not formed until after his death, where he is said to have ascended to divinity. While the empire did not last and is now a series of petty kingdoms, the religion still largely prevails

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>>52307223
New Trove link in the pastebin.
http://pastebin.com/QWyBuJxd

For new content and PDFs to add to the Trove reply to this post, or the OP. Include the word Trove somewhere in your post.

Anyone who wishes to create backups go for it.

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>>52320624

Yaaay!

What brave soul might be able to share the White Box Compendium or White Box Gothic?

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>>52320624
Thank you.

What do you think the highest HD should be for human non-magic enemies?

How do you stop a thief player from treating hide in shadows as a damn on/off button?

>>52322777
What do you mean? Doesn't he roll to check if he succeeds?

>>52322792
I mean I'm supposed to roll it for him and then not tell him if he succeeds or not, but yeah.

There's just something about his attitude. He never asks about any cover, or what the level of lighting is, or what the floor is made out of, or even whether any enemies are seeing it. It's always just "I'mma hide".

And then, regardless of how battle is going, "I'mma go behind him and backstab".

Like yeah it's not going to work just about ever, it just goes against all my sensibilities.

>>52319738
Easy. Start at level 2 or 3.
B/X has a nice power curve, you can tone it up and down just by starting with a couple of levels. You can't do the opposite with 5e, tho.

If you want to play B/X from 1st level (the most enjoyable imo, the level that teaches you to the game) you can simply reduce the monsters HD to a d6. Or use AD&D HD sizes for the PCs (fighter+dwarf d10, MU d6, others d8 -- i think).

IMO the main difference between 5e and B/X when it comes to gameplay *feel* is that 5e makes everything look tough when it's easy; in B/X everything is hard, and a lot more swingy; it requires that PCs engage carefully, even with the weakest enemies. 5e is about fighting, B/X is about treasure hunting.

>>52316570
>Your characters are murderhobos and tombrobbers who kill people then blow their money on liquor and whores. Is that likeable? Is that relatable?

I mean, usually those people are some monsters, or at the very least foreigners.

Indiana Jones was plenty likeable despite doing just about all of those things.

>>52322821
"anon, in this game all monsters have infravision and can see you even if you hide in shadows..."

>>52323041
But I keep hearing the thief's ability is near supernatural. The fuck is the point of hiding at all if every enemy can see you anyway?

>>52323113
Me too but:
-Infravision detects heat (in B/X at least)
-A candle is all it takes to stop infravision, and it creates lots of shadow
-Hide in shadows only works if you stay still (i think in black box you can move too, but not attack)
-Thieves aren't monster-enemies, they are human-enemies
-You making urban dungeons too, right?

>>52323208
>-You making urban dungeons too, right?

Are there any good urban dungeon crawl adventure modules out there?

AD&D 2e has bard multiclasses.

Is a half-elven cleric/bard, an elvish star worshipping a god of music, the most retarded character concept ever made?

>>52322821
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.co.nz/2015/04/just-in-time-compilation.html
I recommend trying this method out, it makes rolling for that skill relevant only during the moment it's supposed to be tested.

>>52323951
This is pretty good apart from the knowledge roll bit. Both me and my players like to know things right away, not just for the advantage they give, but also for the deep lore.

>>52323994
Yeah, I personally don't do the knowledge rolls but the other aspects work really well for games.

Roll for treasure, or place with intent? Do you differentiate between randomized treasure types; like rolling for coins but hand placing magic items?

>>52324041
I place with intent only if the characters are looking for some specific item.

Fighter wants to find a gauntlets of power? If he looks up some legends, asks bards and sages, and leads the party into a dungeon where the gauntlets are supposedly hidden, then he'll find them there.

>>52322821
Do you ask him what he hides behind?
Do you ask which shadow he steps into?
Do you ask how he moves behind the person he wants to backstab?
I'm guessing that he's played a lot of WoW or similar. You should explain to him that that kind of stealth system is an abstraction since actual hiding can't be simulated well in an MMO environment.

>>52324041
I place with intent but also use a "loot the body" table. I also have another table in case I think there should be a bit more loot in an area once the players get there.

>>52320624
>ASE2-3
https://0x0.st/VAD.pdf

>ACKS-Lairs-and-Encounters
>ACKS-Sinister-Stone-of-Sakkara
>Fall-of-Magic
>Follow-Early-Access-Edition-
>LARA-Core-Rules
>LARA-Warehouse
>Setting-Works-Near-Future-Detective
>Stars-Without-Numbers-The-Machine-Symbiont
>White-Star-Brimling
>White-Star-Combat-Medic
>White-Star-Companion
>White-Star-Old-School-Scifi-the-Hacker-Class
>White-Star-Rock-Star
gofile<dot>io/?c=qG4JmG

>My mega with somethings I didn't see/find on the Trove
https://mega.nz/#F!4loGGaIS!wFxTnIKcm5W5PBRrqKi4nQ

>>52320624
Dope thank you.

>>52323951
This is how I always played, and I learned to DM by myself (since I started playing, the 'dm rolls in secret' wasn't my thing)

> Basically, you delay settling the fiction until it actually matters. Up until that point, it exists in a quantum state, where both results are true until something forces that result to be observed, upon which it settles into one state or another.
What a bloatload of wankery just to explain something that's plain obvious.

>>52324610
If it were obvious we would've all played like this from the beginning, yet we don't.

>>52324665
Playing like that in not obvious, what he is trying to explain is.

>Don't roll when the player declares intent; instead assume the PC is successful and roll when and only when there's an inminent chance of failure.
Better, I think? No need to mention quantum states, no ambiguity, no wankery.

I do something simpler, since most actions are immediate:
>When you declare intent, you also declare intent for your next action, before rolling.
So it's "I'll hide in there AND then sneak around the guard" -- "Ok, so you blend with the shadows and move *roll*, but..."

Reading B/X can hint at that way of playing, since Climb says that you fall from halfway up -- that is, you try, and then in mid-action make the roll for it.

>>52323951
I like this, but I don't get his last example with the knowledge roll. Feels a bit unfair.
>What do I know about this?
>You know such-and-such
>Okay, I do this then
>But were you right? *rolls dice* You were wrong! You die!

That whole part is really confusing.

>>52325017
In general, misinforming your players is a dick move.
Fake rumors are one thing, telling them directly (GM-player, not NPC-PC) to how to fuck themselves in a crucial moment without a chance to confirm that info is another.

>>52325017
Yeah, I think it's confusing and shitty as well. I just ignore it because it's the "Your PCs aren't supposed to know a classical monster's weakness" argument all over again.
To heck with that, everyone knows trolls are weak to fire so it's assumed common adventuring knowledge in my games. It's up there with the riddle of the sphinx and garlic repelling vampires.

>>52320539
sauce on that webm

>>52322642
9 HD. 16 if you don't consider Mystics magical.

>>52323208
>Thieves aren't monster-enemies, they are human-enemies
No distinction exists. Any human you meet in the dungeon is a monster, at least as far as rules are concerned.

>>52323027
>Indiana Jones
>college professor
>who took treasure and then gave it to museums for a pittance
>who has short-term monogamous relationships
>who just gave up a priceless artifact because muh patriotism
>who never kills except in self-defense
>a "murderhobo"

Is that B/X compilation done yet?

I remember we threw a missy fit about AC,
but if that's been fixed it should go in the Trove.

>>52325694
>B/X compilation
What's that?

>>52057061

>>52325883
Thanks anon.

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>>52325694
>>52325818
>>52325883
Last version. I fixed a lot of stuff with feedback from anons, but I don't think it's 100% complete.
Let me know if you find typos/mistakes/whatever, will fix when depression, poverty and time allows.

By the way, please DO NOT upload this to the trove yet - not until it's completed and *proofed*.
It should be safe to use this at the table at this point, just watch out for funny numbers.

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>>52319969
Have you read Grinding Gear? It's written to be a kind of cruel Tomb of Horrors type of module, except it's a clusterfuck aimed at only bringing about a TPK. If anyone from the party survives, the end loot is disappointing. At least Tomb of Horrors is fun. Seriously, only put the players through this adventure if you hate them and/or you're a total troll.

In my opinion, The Cursed Chateau would be more enjoyable, check that one first if it fits your world's area. Unless you get a hard-on from schadenfreude, then go with Grinding Gear.

>>52326074
I considered Cursed Chateau, but my game is currently in England, and CC is supposed to be in France, so it'd require me to either bullshit a reason for the party go to to France(which wouldn't be too hard, I guess, since one of the PCs is a disgraced French noblewoman) or move the whole thing to England.

>>52326074

dem titties doe

>>52326248
>disgraced French noblewoman
Sounds interesting. Care to tell more about the party, and the classes they're playing?

>>52326357
I storytimed it in the last thread, a bit
>>52298766
>Dwarf with a 'dwarven greataxe'
Hasn't actually been there past 5 minutes in the first session
>Fighter with an axe and shield
Irish warrior-woman
>Fighter with a bardiche
Disgraced French noble who claimed to have met an elf once
>Specialist with a bow and skills based around stealthy shit
The group's cartographer
>Cleric with a crossbow
A monk who ran from his order after he realized he could call down straight-up miracles, because his superior wanted to keep him in the temple and use him
>MU with no weapon
Hasn't made a session yet, but I'm being more patient with her because she's at least had an excuse both times

Everyone except the fighters are English afaik(I guess the Dwarf is probably Scottish, stereotypically-speaking)

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>>52326532
Decent party. Hopefully they find some of the loot in that module. There's a lot of really creative stuff in GtC.

>>52326733
So far they've found 3 potions and ~100 silver, in treasure caches.
Considering the God is right on their ass(they're at the bottom of the green VII staircase, the god is 20 feet behind them), I'm hoping to steer them away from the entrance right next to them, but considering they're following the map from 1:07, that shouldn't be too hard.

I was wondering if anyone has Huge Ruined Pile's Dwarf Land pdf?

>>52324597
PDFs published by New Big Dragon Games Unlimited should probably be avoided. These files are often the source of the take downs.

This includes CC1: Creature Compendium, PX1: Basic Psionics Handbook, AX2: d30 Sandbox Companion, and others.

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>>52323722

I'd say it's a fine character, good for a lighthearted or gonzo game. If your group wants to do super grim Darkest Dungeon stuff maybe talk it over with them, because he might clash there.
But no, it's not even remotely the "most retarded character concept ever made".

>>52327162
> If your group wants to do super grim Darkest Dungeon stuff

I actually rolled exactly that character once. The DM immediately threw us into Ravenloft. So, yeah.

Still, a question arises: then what WOULD be the most retarded character concept ever made?

>>52326074
>the end loot is disappointing.

Let's see:

>Ghostcutter: Longsword +0, +2 versus undead. Can also be used to hit non-undead creatures which may only
>be hit by +1 or greater weapons. The downside is that anyone carrying this weapon can never hide from
>undead - they will sense the sword automatically if they are within 30’.
>A large crystal tiger worth 5000gp
>Wand of Paralyzation (12 charges)
>Staff of Healing (6 charges)
>Potions: ESP, Fire Resistance, Gaseous Form, Growth, Levitation
>Scroll of Protection from Undead
>Magic-User Scroll: Mirror Image, Wizard Lock
>Magic-User: Shield, Knock, Protection from Normal Missiles
>Cleric Scroll: Neutralize Poison
>Cleric Scroll: Bless

I dunno, it seems pretty a decent haul to me, but maybe I'm used to lower end treasure

How gonzo would it be to run a campaign set in our universe circa 1640 and shit hits the fan whe. magic appears; demons and crazier roam the wilds; dwarves, elves, and halflings wander in from the wilds; Africa gets terraformed by an ancient alien race who rule from a floating city over the Congo; Atlantis, Mu and Lemuria appear; Centaur horde ravages the Stans; Dragons of very types and levels of intelligence appear; Hindu warriors learn how to wield lightning and discover a few Vimanas; the Chinese, Japanese and Thai emperors/kings/whatever become warped and barely sane creatures that can use magic; the Aboriginal peoples figure out their didgeridoos can have healing and buffing powers; North America splits into three smaller continents, South America sees the rise of native empires that drive out the Europeans.

Thinking of having a number of other crazy ass things occur, so ideas?

>>52323722
No

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>>52326020
It seems like your margins are awfully large, leading to cramped text. As far as I can tell, your pages are about 1000 pixels wide, with about 800 of that occupied by text. It's been a long time since I fucked around with configuring images for printer output, but assuming you're aiming to make this printable to standard 8 1/2" x 11" paper, it seems like you've got some elbow room. Printed at 150 dpi, you can fit 1200 pixels across if you're working with quarter-inch margins, or 1125 pixels if you're working with half-inch margins.

Half-inch margins seem kind of big to me, but lets go with them for the sake of playing conservative with how much text we can fit. That means that you can fill up 88% of the width of your pages with text, and as far as I can tell (unless the pdf adds extra space), you're only using 80% (and printing at something like 117 dpi). So even if you think the font would be too small if you printed at 150 dpi, you still have 80 pixels to play around with if you go with 117 dpi. That's increasing your printable width by 10%, and realistically a bit more since you're using a two-column format, and have to leave a space between your columns.

Anyway, look at my pic comparing your pdf at 50% size to my pdf of Cook Expert at 50% size to see the sort of thing I'm talking about. It seems like having that extra 10% of space would really help you out when it came to things like tables.

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>>52327634
Yes, the Cook Expert page is a bit bigger (and not just the print area), but the print still covers a bigger portion of the page, and the margins could honestly be trimmed a tad there too (maybe reducing it halfway from where it is towards the width of your page).

Here are some table in yours and its, and you can really appreciate the extra space. (The full-length of the pages aren't shown, only the full-width).

>>52327809
Also, I think the spells-per-day tables would be a lot easier to read if there were a lot less space between the columns. Spread out like that, it's not only a bit hard to reference, but it also makes the page look "off-balance" since the text is so sparse there compared to elsewhere.

Oh, and "Title" looks odd being centered when the actual titles aren't.

>>52327634
You a web designer? You talk like one.

I'm going for A4, but I haven't looked into specific measurements of margin/bleed (each printer requires different measures).

>>52327809
Lots of old TSR stuff has horrible layout and overcrowded tables, but that doesn't mean I have to do the same, right?
First, because your version is from a scanned book, which was cropped at the printer. Second because white space = legibility; classic book layout is 50% text area, 50% white paper area. Third because I'm about to hit the 60-character-per-line-recommended-limit, and while it's not THAT important and I still have elbow room - why push it?

The tables that are truly fucked were truly fucked in the original (mercenaries...) so I won't even bother with those.

>>52327904
Thanks, I'll give all those tables (and saving throws, etc) a review after proofing.

Dungeon in Castle of Greyhawk has a room with a crystal ball that illuminates the area. If players remove it, can they sell it? I have seen that prices on crystall balls are like 40k gp and this is just first level of dungeon. Is this crystall ball not the scrying crystal ball? Im at a loss, send help.

>>52327468
What system?

>>52327468
I've had a similar idea for a campaign world, but I gave up with it out of fear of being called racist by one of my very politically correct friends. Your world already has more ideas than mine though, so I don't think that I can contribute much. Seems like it would be a fun world to adventure in.

>>52327468
>Thinking of having a number of other crazy ass things occur, so ideas?
Do it in a vaguely Merlin or King Solomon way:
There are a few powerful sorcerers (one per major fuck-up?) throwing around magic as wantonly as a successful adventurer throws around gold.
When a sorcerer goes away, so does all their magic.

>>52327468
>>52328423
>DUDE AFRICA WIPED OUT LMAO
This is honestly the least exciting bit, followed closely by the Native empires driving out Europeans from SA.

>>52328423
Fuck that, just call it like you see it. If your group calls you out on it, just sprinkle in a few token NPCs or ask if any of them would like to play a human that is not caucasian or east asian.
>>52328513
I was thinking of doing something like that, just wasn't sure what to do to approach it (though I did state something similar in the post with China, Japan and Thailand
>>52328538
Africa isn't wiped out, it just has a larger number of decent ass rivers, lakes and more readily arable land. As for South America, I'm not too caught up on what all the cultures are like down there so I though making the Inca revive along with a number of other tribes becoming resurgent would be interesting. North America is fucked in the short term though due to the who "continent cracked in three" thing.

Also, running it using LotFP.

>>52328538
>>52327468
>followed closely by the Native empires driving out Europeans from SA.
It would be far more interesting if Hernán Cortés actually *was* Quetzalcoatl.
Bonus points if you read up on that whole affair and properly play Moctezuma as a false-humility type trying to assert dominance.

>>52327468
>Africa gets terraformed by an ancient alien race who rule from a floating city over the Congo

Sounds only marginally different from what actually happened in the congo, which was 10 million+ people being worked to death through forced labour to gather rubber, severed hands literally becoming a quasi-currency among colonists, and then later economic exploitation and political manipulation/destabilization by companies like De Beers for cheap exploration and labour regarding diamond mines in the rift valley.

>>52328618
>Africa isn't wiped out, it just has a larger number of decent ass rivers, lakes and more readily arable land.
That sounds almost as boring as turning Africa into wasteland.

>I'm not too caught up on what all the cultures are like down there
Then you shouldn't be using a "real world but magic" setting.

>the Inca revive
Hard to do when the entire royal family is exiled.

Honestly, I would just go with
>real world circa 1640
>dragons have appeared all over the world
>magic exists now
>NA has split into three continents
>some people have changed into demihumans, seemingly at random

Hey /osrg/, I want to run a hexcrawl, but in the style of mordheim. I want to center it around a ruined city which used to be a centre of magical research and teaching. Players would be scavenging the ruins for magical items, research notes, and the like. Sometimes it would be random (I wonder what's in this mysterious cellar?) and sometimes at the request of a patron (My student stole my notes, stab his bitch ass and get them back). My issue is how to handle the hex map. Obviously I'd need to scale down the hexes, but how small should they be? My gut says to make one hex "one city block" and not worry overmuch about exacting detail measurements. Then I can have each block have a "terrain type" like private mansion, merchant district, slum, etc. Any thoughts on this? I know I need to check Vornheim, I'm trying to find it now.

I wanna separate race and class in LotFP. What's the best things to offer humans to make them a viable choice among demihumans who get perks? 2 free skillpoints and saving throw bonuses maybe? XP% boost?

>>52328618
>I'm not too caught up on what all the cultures are like down there so I though making the Inca revive along with a number of other tribes becoming resurgent would be interesting.

If you're set on this, read up on the various Tupac Amarus throughout history, and also Wiphalas.

>>52328854
That sounds fine. But include at least one proper "dungeon" in every district.
And don't put other scavengers on Wandering Monster charts, keep track of who and where they are.

>>52328911
>And don't put other scavengers on Wandering Monster charts, keep track of who and where they are.

Why not? Aren't wandering monsters a pretty important part of OSR?

>>52328838
>Hard to do when the entire royal family is exiled.

A number of native/mestizo rebellions happen in Peru against the Spanish, although most of them happened in the 1700s.

>>52328911
I was thinking that any fetch quest would get a proper, preplanned dungeon, while random encounters would get a quickly drawn sketch. Also, I kinda like the idea of other persistant scavenger bands, but how would you handle tracking them? Roll a d6 each turn for their movement? That seems like it would get messy really fast.

>>52328059
>Second because white space = legibility; classic book layout is 50% text area, 50% white paper area.
Say what? I no longer have a physical copy of Moldvay Basic (which would be a bit tricky to judge from anyway due to the punch holes to put it in a binder), but I've got my 1e PHB handy, and it has letter-size pages with 1/2 inch margins on the sides, so it's at 88% text area vs. 12% white area. I don't think I've ever seen a book with 50% blank space. The paperback novel I have at hand is approximately 4 1/16 inches in width, with approximately margins of approximately 3/8 inches, so even there you have upwards of 80% text.

>Lots of old TSR stuff has horrible layout and overcrowded tables, but that doesn't mean I have to do the same, right?
>The tables that are truly fucked were truly fucked in the original (mercenaries...) so I won't even bother with those.
The mercenary table is a mess, but it's the only one I can think of that is. Granted, it bothers me when some of the class tables have to take multiple lines at some levels due to long title names, but other than that, I think they're actually nice and tidy.

>Third because I'm about to hit the 60-character-per-line-recommended-limit, and while it's not THAT important and I still have elbow room
I didn't know there was such a thing, but I think you're right at it now. It's difficult to figure out the character length in B/X because the text is justified, but I think it's somewhere in the area of 77 characters.

>- why push it?
Being able to fit more shit on a line is nice. It would really help with some of the monsters, for instance, and could enable you to keep the spells per day appended to the class tables. Also, there are some places where the text just *looks* crowded to me.

At a certain point it just comes down to aesthetic preferences, and obviously you're gonna go with what you think looks good over what I think looks good, but that's my take on the subject.

>>52329053
>>52328618
Also while on the subject, here's a video you might find interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-dQdASWkDU

>>52329053
>A number of native/mestizo rebellions happen in Peru
And how many of those were led by an actual Inca and not just a Quechua with little to no proof of his ancestry?

>>52329294
Oh, yeah like literally none.

>>52326020
Weapons & Equipment, Weapons table: left-align the "item" column title... I think. It looks weird the way it is, even if it's centered like the weapon categories. For that matter, I'm not so sure the weapon categories wouldn't look better if they were left-aligned as well. (Also, "Bows" need to be bold-faced and is out of alignment with the other weapon categories). Lastly, I think it might look better if "Variable Damage" and possibly "Cost in gp" were on more than one line. They kind of run into each other now.

The other tables in Weapons and Equipment: I think the "item" column titles would look better left-aligned. As it is, they don't match the alignment of the items that fall under them in their column.

Under Land Transport and Water Transport, maybe boldface the category groups that have colons. So where it says Galley: and then Large, Small, and War, maybe boldface Galley. Actually, then there's no indicator of when the category ends. Maybe it'd be better if you just slightly indented the different types of galleys, like they did in B/X. You could use the same scheme for the weapons on the weapon table.

Character Movement table: maybe put a blank line between the entries? Everything kind of runs together as it is.

Item weight table: left-align the "item" column title.

So I've been thinking about how like, after you reach Name level, you can build yourself a keep or whatever it is your class gives you. I thought it might be cool if, over the course of the adventures, the PCs slowly built up a small group of specialist NPCs - maybe like a blacksmith or a merchant or something - and eventually when they had enough to build themselves a keep, all those NPCs could go and hang out there as a base of operations. That way, they'd have a familiar face to talk to regarding services at their base, instead of the faceless NPCs theyve been interacting with till that point.

Thoughts? Is it realistic with regards to the party turnover rate in OSR?

>>52329558
Well, the specialist NPCs have much less of a turnover rate since they don't go down to the dungeons to get killed. It could work.

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>>52326020
Your spell descriptions look a bit too spaced out to me. Honestly, I kind of like where they put the range and duration in B/X (though I'm less fond of their use of boldface in the spell description--italics would've been okay, but the boldface is distracting). Anyway, I think just removing the line of space between range and duration in your version makes things look a decent bit more cohesive, and less like the spell title is floating off into space.

How do you decide which PC the monsters attack first, assuming that none of the PCs have been especially provocative?

>>52329140
>classic book layout
I don't mean Classic D&D, you dummy. I mean classic books, in general.
http://theworldsgreatestbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/waves_page_layout1.gif
It's less common to see 50/50, but it works a lot better and reads nicely. Maybe more suited for poetry than a game manual, but hey.

>Being able to fit more shit on a line is nice
It's not, and causes fatigue (therefore the 60 characters/line limit). I agree the text looks crowded already, but the original layout is SO inconsistent... lots of titles cramped directly onto the 1st paragraph, lots of caps lock everywhere... I don't think I can do anything about it without doin a major revision of all the text.

Yep, the spell tables will probably go appended to the caster's class tables.

Thanks for the feedback, btw.

>>52329345
The equipment tables are retarded atm, I plan to copy the original layout.

>"Bows" need to be bold-faced
Nice catch, ty.

>other tables
thanks, will look into it asap.

>>52329734
The one that looks like the biggest threat I suppose.

By which I mean the big guy with the big sword.

>>52329734
If they're smart, they'll go for the wizards first.

If they're not, they'll go for the biggest, strongest target.

If I want a 1 to be more interesting than a miss, but less involved than a fumble, what do I do?

>>52329751
>I don't mean Classic D&D, you dummy. I mean classic books, in general.
Like 19th century books or something? Because I don't think there's a book in my house that looks like that.

>and causes fatigue (therefore the 60 characters/line limit).
I think it's a bit different when you're dealing with a rule book rather than, say, a novel you're reading cover to cover. I mean, 60 characters is plenty for regular text. It's when you throw in tables and weird formatting (words capitalized in the middle of paragraphs, pluses and minuses, long numerical values, etc.) that shit can get a bit crowded. But like I said, at some point everything comes down to personal aesthetics.

Page 14, level progression beyond 14th: sometimes there's a space between the "+" and the number that follows it, and other times there's not.

page 18: the saving throws are hard to digest all spread out like that.

page 26, monster reactions: left-align "reaction" column title.

page 37, spell lists: I think it'd probably be significantly easier to read down the list of spells if they were left-aligned.

>>52329759
>>52329781
Thanks for answering. What do you think of this list of priorities:

Dumb enemies: Fighter then dwarf then elf then cleric then magic user magic user then halfling

Smart enemies: Magic user then elf then cleric then fighter then dwarf then thief then halfling

>>52330047
They miss, leaving themselves wide open for a counter attack?

>>52330047
Don't make the warrior drop their weapon or hurt themselves: trained fighters don't fuck themselves over with every twentieth swing.

Instead have something comedic or embarrassing happen. Have them break something expensive. Get their helmet's plume cut off. Something like that.

>>52330145
>Get their helmet's plume cut off.

I read this one in the OSR primer and, I don't know why, but it speaks to me on another level

>>52330047
>If I want a 1 to be more interesting than a miss, but less involved than a fumble, what do I do?
Maybe you're off balance / out of position / exposed? Enemies maybe get a +1 or +2 to hit you (or maybe just the enemy you were striking at). Alternately, you could have a -1 or -2 to any d20 roll you made next turn as you scramble to recover / guard yourself.

Or maybe your initiative drops by 1d4 ranks (flipping around to the beginning of the next round if it goes below 0).

Or maybe you provoke an attack from whoever you were striking at. He takes the worse of 2 attack rolls and the worse of 2 damage rolls.

>>52330125
Not those Anon's, but I'd say "they pick opputertune targets."
Or rather: unless someone absolutely and clearly needs to be dealt with, they go for whoever dies quickest.
Non-combatants last though, unless they (the monster OR the non-combatant) plan on retreating.

>>52330047
I often have crits and fumbles mess with enemy attacks. A fumble can turn an enemy miss into a hit, or an enemy hit into a crit. Conversely, if you roll a natural 20, you can turn an enemy hit into a miss, or their crit into a regular hit.

>>52330140
>>52330145
>>52330187
>>52330231
All very good suggestions. Thank you very much, anons.

Do you guys do party initiative or individual initiatives?

How do you deal with having to keep track of initiatives with like 4d6 goblins showing up?

>>52330409
Individual initiatives for the players, but party initiative for the goblins.

I tend to mentally cut the battle into smaller parts - whether Bob gets to go before those two goblins gunning for him, whether June gets her spell through before the arrow's fired at her, etc. - to make it easier.

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>>52330409
I'll usually do individual initiative unless the monsters get too numerous. In that situation I'd do what >>52330473 did.

>>52330409
I cut monster parties into smaller ones, and roll their initiatives. So group A goes first, then Bob, then B and so on.

>>52330409
Group initiative. On the first round, roll 1d6 for each member on the team that goes first. On a 1-3, they don't get to act that round. This puts the teams on roughly even footing (since all members of the team that goes second get to act, but only after half of the team that went first).

Team initiative is nice because not only does it simplify things, but it allows the players to act in whatever order they want, and you don't end up with some plans of action not being viable merely because the characters are going in the wrong order.

>>52330409
I use the static initiative from BtW

>>52330644
I rather like individual initiative, because battlefield is generally speaking a place of chaos and disorder, where all plans go to shit.

But if one side of the battle has had the opportunity to plan ahead and prepare for this, instead of it just being some random encounter, I let that side only use group initiative. It's all the simulation you need on them having prepped: now they can act in any order they like to put their previously totally planned thing in motion.

I remember some old blog post about how heros in film don't wear helmets. Does anyone have a link for this?

>>52330734
What's BtW?

>>52331226
Beyond the Wall, it's on the Trove

Serious question: with all the retroclones of B/X going on around, each of them fixing something of the original, why stick with the original? Why not pick the one retroclone that fixes what you don't like, or does the best job at modernizing it?

>>52331912
>retroclones
>fixing

lol

>>52331926
Isn't that the job of the retroclones?

>>52329294
>And how many of those were led by an actual Inca

Manco Inca led a rebelion after the fall of the inca empire, he even created a neo-inca state.

And Tupac Amaru II definelly had noble inca blood, though, we aren't certainly sure if he was a direct descendant of Tupac Amaru. In the beginning of the Viceroyalty, most of the cuzco noble families (panacas) were allowed to maintain most of their lands, hence why Tupac Amaru II was a landowner, and since the Inca Emperors usually had a shitton of children (Tupac Yupanqui had more than 500), it's certainly possible that he had royal blood, but I doubt that it was from Tupac Amaru.

>>52330518
>I cut monster parties into smaller ones
Said every murderhobo ever.

>>52329140
>>Third because I'm about to hit the 60-character-per-line-recommended-limit, and while it's not THAT important and I still have elbow room
>I didn't know there was such a thing, but I think you're right at it now. It's difficult to figure out the character length in B/X because the text is justified, but I think it's somewhere in the area of 77 characters.

Median of 74, high of 86 at:
>and yellow scales set in a spiral pattern. Its first attack is a bite. If the

>>52328967
Not the guy you are responding to but, reading comprehension bro.

Dude is saying other parties of scavengers should be tracked and maintained as opposed to random. You can random wandering monster chart up all you want but, make the scavenger parties something special with their own mission.

>>52331979
No, the job of the retroclones is to let people play and make content for games that are dead and OOP. The varied amount of them is because there was a market and because no one could agree on changes everyone made.

Is there any benefit to basing xp off of sp instead of gp?

>>52329053
>against the Spanish

Against the viceroyalty, actually. Most of those rebellions tried to keep good relationships with the spanish monarch (never with the viceroy) either from the start or at least when captured. Not like that's strange, it was really common in the ancient regime to rebel against the local authorities while praising the monarchy.

Also natives in general were traditional supporters of the monarch in spanish colonies and often on the loyalist side in the independence wars. "Europeans" born in the colonies were the actual rivals of the spaniards, and traditional enemies of the natives.

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>>52332263
>and yellow scales set in a spiral pattern. Its first attack is a bite. If the
???

>>52332495
It's all arbirtrary. Same with treasure distrubition, advancement xp, item prices, and coin weight.
Scale them however you would like.

>>52332084
Something something tupac alive in Andes something something Peruvian rap magic.

>>52332563
Gold seems more "iconic", I'll stick with that then.

>>52332263
>high of 86 at:
>and yellow scales set in a spiral pattern. Its first attack is a bite. If the
That's 77 characters.

>>52331912
>Serious question: with all the retroclones of B/X going on around, each of them fixing something of the original, why stick with the original?
I have yet to find another game I like better as a foundation. The art and layout of B/X make things pretty easy to find, in general. And it's easy enough to import one element or another into the game. Plus, there are some things I find unforgivable, like listing all the spell descriptions in alphabetical order instead of arranging them by level.

>>52325496
Doctor Who? I got it from the filename thread.
>>52303976, >>52308200, >>52307032

>>52332563
What is there to parse? They are discussing characters per line and used that line as an example of a longer than average line.

>>52333909
Missed the : on the previous line.
Figured it out when I saw >>52332747.
That dude is right, by the way.

>>52328858
BFRPG gives them a 10% bonus to experience, which seems like a pittance to some. Possibly that plus the free skill points?

Does Dungeon Crawl Classics count as OSR? Because I'm rather fond of it.

>>52334193
I think most people count it, even if only in philosophy.

>>52332747
Crap, I had a filename stuck on my input lines..
So it's median 65, high 77.

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>>52320624
Nice!

>>52326020
Nice!

>>52329730
Also nice. Damn, /tg/ is doing well today.

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I wrote a post about Elementals, how to interact with them, and what they can do for you.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-what-does-elemental-want.html

It's probably one of my favorite posts yet, even if it does include pretentious bullshit like:

>[Ice elementals] loathe fire elementals with all the bitterness of an atheist invited to a maudlin heaven.

Still, it does explain storms, acid, and glaciers in what I hope is a unique and interesting way.

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>>52334467
>all the bitterness of an atheist invited to a maudlin heaven.

That's a funny mental image, anon.

I see a lot of questions about what people would do differently from B/X in such and such circumstance, or what they prefer and thus implement in their retroclone. I'd like to take a different tack: what do people think were B/X's bad ideas?

Not "I'd do that different because I prefer X style of play" or whatever, but "this produces outright bad results and I think everyone should change it no matter what style of play they're going for".

>>52334722
I might get a bit of negativity towards saying this, but...

Race as class

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>>52334559
>That's a funny mental image, anon.

Thanks. Ice spirits are real jerks.

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>>52334753

You were right, anon. Here, have a bit of negativity!

>>52334467
Our DM does the best fire elementals.

They're intensely empathetic: when drawn to material plane they will usually try to hug all those poor cold creatures moving around, to make them warm.

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>>52334882
>Our DM

Hate to tell you this, anon...

>>52334919
Similar but not exactly the same.

>>52333638
>Doctor Who?
I don't think that's Doctor Who.

>>52307032
>Doctor Who, The Curse of Fenric.
I was right.

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>>52334963
Eh, not enough info to judge.

Anyway, the elementals I'm writing about aren't from some other plane. You know how the river could also be a river spirit? Well, same goes for fire, stones, rain, ice, and acid. Every stone you see is an elemental. Every torch you light is an elemental.

And lightning.

Lightning is very slutty