Old School Renaissance General - /osrg/

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>>52180091
>DCC: Yay or nay? Too modern or a solid twist on the old?
Ynay. I'm using it for my current group and every sessions makes me want to switch to B/X. At the same time, the sessions are fun and the players like the system well enough. I also don't want to subject them to system change after already switching from LotFP to this. I think the best things the system has taught me is that the basic D&D rules really don't need to be re-invented, and that my own imagination as a DM usually works better than rolling on a table (at least during the session).

>>52180091
>DCC
Has some cool ideas, but it's too crunchy, and having to regularly reference tables during play is complete bullshit.

>>52180091
I like it. Yay.

>>52180248
I don't like the funky die and all the charts. It has some neat ideas that I implement into my BFRPG games.

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>>52180248
I switched from LotFP to DCC as well. No reason other than wanting to try something new and to have a different aesthetic tone than LotFPs grimness. I think my players (being not normally tabletop RPG players) enjoy DCC more, to they liked LotFP too. So far, I'm loving it.

>>52180296
The Crawlers companion app is pretty sweet for streamlining most all of the table references. I can't say I really agree on crunchiness, since 99% of everything I need to reference is on my Judge's Screen, but I can see people being annoyed by looking up spell results.

MCC looks like it's gonna be rad.

>>52180091
>DCC: Yay or nay? Too modern or a solid twist on the old?
I can't even decide which retroclone to use or which version of D&D to use, or if I want to say hell with it and just use Searchers of the Unknown.

>>52180091
DCC is a neat system with cool ideas that I would never want to actually play. But it's good to mine for inspiration and ideas.

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Fuck, this spell list is long.

Why did I decide to do this anyway?

>>52180384
Basic Fantasy RPG.

Just making sure: All two hundred are being done as 2nd Level spells, right?

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>>52180511
TWO hundred?

I just wrote one hundred. Or are you including the really silly list we did first? I'm not writing the rules for all of those.

And I'm doing them in the format for my game. It's relatively easy to convert to a 2nd level spell. Just replace [dice] with 1 or 2 and [sum] with 6.

Examples:

9. Compartmentalize Mixture
R: touch T: object D: 1hr
Command a mixture of items (a soup, a pile of coins) that weigh no more than [dice]x100lbs to separate into [sum]+1 categories. The separation is slow, and hindered by even the slightest effort. The categories must be clearly defined and identifiable by inspection. For example, you could split a soup into "vegetables" "broth" and "poison", or a pile of coins into "minted during the last century" and "older". You could not, however, split a pile of coins into "handled by Xerphion the Tyrant" and "not handled by Xerphion the Tyrant", as there's no way to tell just by inspecting them. You could not separate "a locked chest" and "its contents", because the items could not flow freely into separate piles.

13. Heroic Leap
R: touch T: creature D: [dice] minutes
Target can leap up to [sum]x5' high and/or [sum]x5' forward in a straight line. They take no damage on landing, provided they land on or above the level they started from. For example, you could leap from the ground to top of a steeple, or you could leap over the steeple to land on the ground, but you couldn't leap from the top of a steeple to the ground. On landing, the target may Save vs Dex to change direction and repeat the leap. You cannot cast spells or attack while leaping.

>>52180497
And why should I choose BFRPG over the competition?

>>52180372
>The Crawlers companion app is pretty sweet for streamlining most all of the table references.
App? Streaming? Is this some sort of new-age witchery of which you speak? I know only of the old, true ways of paper and dice.

>>52180384
>I can't even decide which retroclone to use or which version of D&D to use
I'd say the default in Moldvay Basic. If there are things you want tweaked, you can radiate outwards from there.

>>52180597
It's simple, it's easy, it's modular, it has everything you need in an OSR game.

>>52180597
BFRPG has good shit like race & class separation, ascending AC, and a shit load of optional add-on's to crunch out the game if desired. It's a simple, nice modern take on B/X. It's also free.

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Homebrewing. What do you think of my class list? (Pic).

Im not sure about some of the M-U and Specialist roles.

Any glaring omissions?

Should I increase the count to 20-24 classes to cover more archetypes?

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>>52180734
Honestly? You could probably get away with 8 classes. Druids make better enemies than PCs, and Rangers tend dominate wilderness exploration and survival. The outdoors turns into a ranger-only minigame.

Magic User (or just call them Wizards) (stable but slow)
Occultist (power but also danger)

Rogue (sneaking and damage)
Tomb Robber (lore and perception)

Cleric (miracles)
Crusader (miracles and swords)

Barbarian (tons of HP and no pants)
Fighter (swords and pants)

But that's just my opinion.

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>>52180091
All I can say about DCC is that everyone I know who went into it with reservations or disdain for it's 3.0 roots (it's 90% AD&D, 10% 3.0) came out loving it.

» No skill lists. Your job and history either make you skilled (d20) or unskilled (d10) at attempts.
» No fighting style perks. Pick a Warrior or Dwarf and the Mighty Deed die takes care of all that stuff.
» No "once a day" spellcasting boredom.
» The negative consequences for Clerical or Wizard casting add a new spice to the game.

While I do think some of the crunchier bits could have been simplified a bit (two-handed fighting, spell-duels) and I sometimes hate fishing out the proper funky dice, all in all I really dig it.

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>>52180692
I'm not the person you're responding to, but I kind of like racial classes. Ascending vs descending AC never really seemed that important to me, and it's pretty easy to convert one to the other, so that doesn't sway things much (also I find it weird to use ascending AC in conjunction with standard, descending saving throws).

>>52180734
I worry that things might begin to blend together a bit, with rogue / tomb robber / specialist, in particular.* With that said, I find the setup of your pic to be interesting, at least with regards to the warrior and knave types, where it goes from specific to general as you go from left to right (I would've made them radiate out from the center though). Not sure if the magic-user / occultist / druid section follows this rule as I don't know the parameters of occultist, but it might. The crusader / inquisitor / cleric section seems to be more about the level and variety of magic, but I suppose that this, too, is essentially the same pattern.

*But a lot depends on your actual execution of things. Also, your presentation. Having a smaller number of "core" classes and then presenting others as additional or secondary classes (perhaps with the implication that they're also rarer and thus have a smaller part to play in the structuer of things in general) can make it easier to grasp things.

>>52180566
Sorry, two hundred and ten.
One hundred and ten if you're just doing the second list.
71-80 got doubled up by mistake (>>52167849, >>52167972).

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>>52180994
It was 2 different people. I decided to keep my own numbering for consistency.

Anyway... it's a lot of spells.

>>52180798
Clerics are already miracles and swords (...well, maces as post-OD&D)
And you've dropped the rather interesting "anti-magic archetype"

>>52181058
So which 71-80 are you doing, if not both?

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>>52181069
Yeah, but Crusaders are miracles and BIG swords and shields and all that.

The anti-magic archetype is tricky, from a game design point of view. If you've got an anti-mage PC, you need to design encounters around that. Just like the Ranger turns the wilderness into a Ranger-only minigame, the anti-mage turns fights into a wizard vs antiwizard battle.

It also tends to be statted as "The Inquisitor has abilities that are not spells but function just like spells, except they also cancel magic or do truth-based things."

Overall.. it works, but it's a bit like having an "anti-huge creature fighter". Sure, your games /might/ include a huge creature or two, and then the dragonslayer will be able to use all their abilities... but otherwise, they're a bit of an ugly duckling.

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>>52181202
>>52167972

Not saying it's better, just saying it's mine.

But I'm only up to 20, so those are a ways off.

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Any good Sword and Planet games out there?

>>52181240
You might as well says thieves are bad, for forcing the referee to add traps (or forcing the party to bring an thief to deal with traps).
You can deal with traps without a thief. You can deal with magic without an antiwixard.
Should we strip out Magic-Users because they easily bypass some challenges? What about scrolls.
>Just like the Ranger turns the wilderness into a Ranger-only minigame, the anti-mage turns fights into a wizard vs antiwizard battle.
Not a fair compassion. If the Ranger takes over during a hex-crawl, they do \everything\.
An antiwizard might be the MVP when fighting a wizard, but everyone else is fighting too.

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>alleged new meta-level of 4chan

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>>52181416
Anyone can deal with traps (unless your system has Disarm Trap as a thing /only/ a specific class can do).

And yes, of course you can deal with magic without an antiwixard.

But the Rogue doesn't /only/ deal with traps. It's a relatively minor thing they also do.

But the antimage is built almost entirely around... being an antimage.

They tend not to have much to fall back on, task-wise.

>An antiwizard might be the MVP when fighting a wizard, but everyone else is fighting too.

And when not fighting a wizard, everyone else is fighting too, and the antiwizard is picking their nose or being a Slightly Shitty Fighter. That's the problem.

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>>52181470
Understand? Yes.

Care. No.

>>52180641

Any reason why not BECMI?

Is there an OSR with a point buy system?

Do you guys ever let players find out what a monster's hit dice and hit points are? If yes, in what way? Do the players or PCs have to do something before attaining that knowledge?

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>>52181730

>spend 30+ minutes getting your scores and stuff juuuust right and double checking your math
>five minutes later
>die in a kobold ambush in the first room of the dungeon

OSR and point buy are not a good fit for each other. I'm not aware of any retroclones that use it.

>>52181703
Very few mechanical differences. The main distinction is that Mentzer wrote tutorial books instead of reference books, so it's harder to look things up in BECMI than in B/X.
Also, Immortal Rules were balls.

>>52181763
As with most rolls, I do up in front of the screen.
>If yes, in what way?
If they pay attention while I'm (quickly) rolling it.

So what the fuck exactly are adventurers supposed to spend all this money they're getting on?

>>52182150
Purple Lotus and Wenches.

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>>52182165
Castles. Followers. Investment banks. Orphanages. Better horses. Whores. Lots of whores. Silk. Floppy hats. Alimony

>>52182150
A nice house, servants, a small army to follow them around and support expeditions further and further afield, sumptuous balls, gilded carriages, obscure and expensive tomes, donations to the church, hooker, blow, hookers and blow, blow to snort off hookers, etc.

>>52182150
The answer is always fortress.

>>52182150

Merchant fleets. Outfitting pirates and privateers. Costs money to set that up.

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Gonna do two short 1d20 tables tonight.

Any requests? I'll honor the first 2 I get.

>>52182420
1d20 strange curses.
1d20 poorly cooked meals

>>52180968
I haven't decided y we t, but the way I'm leaning is that the classes on the outside are "generic", work mostly like the standard ones and are safe all-rounders. The two inner classes are considered something like specialties or kits that either do one aspect better or change how the class plays.

Re Clerics: I'm basically splitting up the cleric spell list. The Cleric does all the miracle type stuff; healing, protection, etc. The Inquisitor gets all the stuff that typically cancels out magic. Prot from evil/magic, suppressing magic, banishing, etc. The Crusader is basically a paladin. Fights, with a bit of help from the big guy.

The knave track is one im having trouble with. The specialist will get lots of skill ranks (a la Lotfp). The rogue is there just to fill the sneaky backstabby thug archetype. Grave Robber I'd like to be the Indiana Jones type guy who is good at dealing with typical dungeon/underworld hazards. But atm that is pretty much what the specialist can do, so ill have to think of a way to differentiate them.

For druid, i was thinking nature/fae magic. M-u's do the typical arcane type. Occultist i thiught would focus on demon summoning, or turning himself into a demon. Still not sure.

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>>52182420
1d20 magical diseases

>>52182455
I'll flip a coin and do one of these.

>>52182496
And this.

>>52182506
Do the Curses one please.

>>52182464
Differentiate them by having the Grave Robber get lots of skills to handle underground challenges. Disarming traps, picking locks, sneaking, climbing, etc. Then have the specialist be more of an espionage agent. They can forge documents, case a building for weaknesses, disguise themselves, and so on. So you'd want a grave robber for dungeon expeditions and a specialist for social infiltration and spy work.

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>>52182511
I've got 2 sets of d20 curses I can post, give me a second.

They're stolen from some blogs, but they're useful.

>>52182511
Curses are a dime a dozen.
Easier to make up on the spot, too.
I'd rather see the meals.

>>52180798
I agree with this but I think >>52180734 could go even further. How about this:

Fighter (swords, tons of HP, pants optional)
Magic User (spells, occultism, alchemy)
Cleric (miracles and fighting)
Thief (sneaking, damage, perception)

What do you think?

>>52181808
Far Away Lands but it isnt exactly OSR

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>>52182531
>>52182535
>>52182511
>>52182455
Curses:

Curse (Major or Minor)
R: 100’ T: creature D: permanent
You inflict a minor or major curse on the target. The creature must have wronged you in some way. This can be very petty ("being young and beautiful", "wearing offensive socks", and "shooting arrows at me"), but it must be a personal offense. You can't curse someone if you don't hate them just a little bit. For a minor curse, you must invest 2 [dice], and they are automatically exhausted. For a major curse, you must invest 4 [dice]. You cannot dispel your own curses.

Some witches specialize in dispelling curses. Other witches tolerate curse-breakers as a necessary annoyance. High-level clerics can also break them.

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>>52182745
You missed "Elf" and "Dwarf" I think, hurr hurr hurr.

I do like having pairs of ideas on each axis (fight, magic, sneak, holy). 3 ideas per axis. just seemed to dilute it, at least as presented.

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>>52181315
Carcosa is sword & planet & mythos. I don't run it straight, but there's a lot of cool stuff there to loot.

DCC has a zine called Metal Gods of Ur Hadad, which has at minimum a cool urban 0 level street urchin funnel.

Planet Algol and Metal Earth are both older blogs with a shit ton of cool ideas and resources for sword and planet.

Empire Of The Peal Throne is probably worth checking out too. Its all kinds of strange indo-oriental fantastic planet.

Don't know about White Star, but its suppose to be that as well.

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>>52182745

>>52182863
>You missed "Elf" and "Dwarf" I think, hurr hurr hurr.
and the halfling, why does everyone forget about the halfling?

>>52182944
>In normal light, if a halfling finds some shadows or cover to hide in (remaining absolutely quiet and not moving), the attempt at hiding will succeed 1/3 of the time. To use this ability, tell your DM. The DM will roll ld6; a result of 1 or 2 indicates success at hiding, as long as the character does not move or make any noise.

>>52182944
Even Sauron forgot about the halfling.

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>>52182944
Because outside of Tolkien, they never really got traction in popular consciousness. Too much child-biology wiring in the brain. They fit into an uncomfortable space in the ol' lizard-mind.

>>52180597
it's free in PDF format, only 5 bucks for a physical copy off of Amazon(and there's a monster manual and several adventure books also on Amazon for similar prices), and it has a really healthy amount of support both officially and from the fans

>>52180091
>DCC: Yay or nay? Too modern or a solid twist on the old?
definitely a Yay, and honestly assuming the core D&D mechanics are present in some form or another there isn't much I'd consider "too modern" to potentially include in an OSR game, but then I'm an advocate of the following OSR definition;

A game or supplement is OSR if it's one or both of the following;

1.) an edition of D&D(or AD&D) published by TSR Inc(certain other games published by TSR are also counted)

2.) is broadly compatible with any TSR edition and/or anything else calling itself OSR


or to TLDR it;

>A game or supplement is OSR if interchangeable with OSR and TSR D&D.

>>52182455
>>52182535
It was food.

1. Mushroom and trout stew sans salt.
2. Pine bark bread.
3. Crab-apple curry over soggy rice.
4. Flank steak skewers cooked until v. well done
5. Cow brain in a brown sauce.
6. Overly seared hot peppers and herbs.
7. “Salsa,” diced tomato in water and vinegar.
8. Twice-cooked pork and bitter herb slaw.
9. Small game birds and goblin liver cutlets.
10. Onion and water soup.
11. Leg of mutton over open fire with warm milk and herb baste.
12. Hardtack and tainted water for softening.
13. Eggs over very hard with a side of boiled carrots and celery.
14. Mashed potatoes and suspicious milk.
15. Black pudding from an unknown animal.
16. Beans and potentially toxic manticore bacon.
17. Salmon suspended in cow-bone gelatin.
18. Pigs feet in myconid-stalk gravy.
19. Ogre haunch, burnt to eradicate disease.
20. Chicken hearts in a gritty walnut breading.

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>>52180734
I think we can go even further beyond

>>52181315
Fantastic Heroes & Witchery has a bunch of stuff keyed towards Sword & Planet and other Weird Fiction subgenres beyond the standard D&D Fantasy one, although really with a little tweaking almost any OSR system will do

>>52183222
But all that is just your average British cuisine. *Ba-Dum-Tiss*

>>52183335
My particular flavor of OSR games is Fantasy !NotFrance and !NotBritain so I couldn't help it.

IRL the worst food I've ever eaten was from Sierra Leone; soup that the locals said contained chicken. Bones were too small, I think it was probably rat.

>>52183233
I've considered cobbling together my own Sword and Planet style frankensystem.

>>52183233
I considered having the 4 standard classes as broad categories, then 3 "skill trees" representing different playstyles.

Eg. Fighter: soldier/berserker/hunter

At level up you'd pick one or two perks from any of those trees.

But that gets dangerously close to "builds".

>>52181838

What about Rules Cyclopedia? Same system.

Alright, so forgive me if I sound stupid, but after deciding I'd like to run a game of B/X, most likely with a retroclone, I'm having a hard time grasping exactly everything that B/X entails.

I've been reading about the split with AD&D and all that, but having trouble figuring out in a consise manner what the differences between Holmes, Moldvay, and Metzer d&d are, and which ones retroclones use/are based off, etc.

Could someone explain to a DM new to OSR exactly what it is I have to figure out before running a game, which modules are compatible with what, etc.?

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PICTURE IS DISEASE-RELATED, NSFL. And now for the Magical Diseases. Gotta do it in two posts.

1. Arcane sneezes. While afflicted, spawn one sentient snot golems every 1d4 hours.
2. Tenser’s Vertigo. Gravity is randomized every 2d4 hours.
3. Lvl 2 dysentery. In addition to usual symptoms, 1d4 fire damage every hour as gouts of elemental power erupt from various orifices.
4. Wild Growths. All hair falls out, jute fibre grows in its place until long enough to achieve sentience and pull free of host.
5. The Onyx Lung. Diseased host coughs obsidian fragments for 2d6 days until rocky growths spread to rest of body.
6. Jungle Eyes. Symptoms start with cloudy vision and frequent blinking. Eyes first liquify and then solidify into chalky mass, rest of body soon follows. Highly valued for plant fertilizer.
7. Truth-Eating Plague. Psionic insects burrow into back of throat, feed off truth. Host must make Saving Throw vs Magic whenever they speak. On fail, can speak only lies for next 1d4 hours.
8. The Shivers. Necrotic energy saps target from within. Extremities grow brittle, all fingers/toes break off if untreated after 1d4 hours.
9. Red Snake Disease. Evocation magic draws life energy from infected, manifests as small red garter snakes that burst free of flesh at rate of 1d4/minute.
10. Thousand Cuts From Within. Arcane energy mingles with blood which tears at flesh from inside-out and causes immense internal bleeding.

Fuck, still too long. I'll just post a jpg in a minute.

11. Arcane Storm Affliction. After harmless initial strike from arcane thunderstorm, energy builds up in afflicted until light pours from every orifice and sears flesh painfully.
12. The Emerald Light. Energy cast off from magical emeralds cause afflicted to sprout crystalline growths over body. They rupture flesh and eventually obscure so much of body that afflicted cannot receive nutrients and die of thirst.
13. Plague from the Southern Isles. Nerve endings grow hypersensitive and magical forces tug, causing afflicted to feel irresistable pull northwards. After 1d6 hours, nerves erupt from flesh and burrow into ground, rooting afflicted in place. Once dead, body mutates into humanoid plant.
14. Crown of Glory. Divination energy manifests and dream-liquid erupts from afflicted's ears. Clings to flesh, reflecting afflicted's memories and dreams. Afflicted goes braindead in 1d6 days.
15. Acute Summoning Sickness. Disease brought on by conjuring infected creatures. Conjurer erupts in painful boils that fill with arcane pus. Once ruptured, afflicted loses all magical abilities for 2d6 years.
16. Mind-Spikes. Latent magic manifests in infectious disease that feeds on strong wills. Bony growths break through skull, killing afflicted before bursting and spreading contagious virus.
17. Demonic Nosebleed. 1d4 days after summoning infected demonic entity, nosebleed begins. Lost blood is highly magical, draws powerful demonic and fae entities through the veil between worlds.
18. The Charmed Plague. Infectious charm spell transmits between individuals, causes mild disorientation and mental dampening. Stupor lasts for 1d4 days.
19. Spontaneous Elven Combustion. Disease only afflicts elves, spreads only when forest is too densely populated. Charred elf-corpses often become infected by burrowing beetles that feed off burnt magical flesh.

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Fuck it, here's the image.

What do I need to run 1e Greyhawk? I have both the World of Greyhawk box set and Greyhawk Adventures, but I'm trying to work out which one I can leave in storage and which one's going to be the workhorse.

>>52183718
Can't go wrong with RC, but I always though there was way too much unnecessary material even in Cyclopedia. I find that most campaigns' meat of the game is during levels 1 through 6, and a lot of RC is rendered moot by that fact.

My advice is run moldvay, and sprinkle in rules from RC when you decide they're necessary.

>>52183718
Rules Cyclopedia is BECM (no I) in one book.
It's easier the reference than BECMI, but it's a pretty thick book.

>>52183714
I'd say "builds" aren't inherently problematic, it's mostly a problem in 3.PF due to balance reasons and how it clogs up making characters, just need to have it set up so that all the options are reasonably balanced with each other and relatively simple in nature

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Quintessential modules are:
B1, B2, B4, DA2, G1, N2 don't run N2, S1, S2, S3, S4, X1

>>52183725
>which modules are compatible with what,
Everything is compatible with everything. That's the whole point of these generals.
>what it is I have to figure out before running a game,
If you don't know the relevant rule, make a ruling. Then look up the rule after the session.
If there is no rule, but it comes up a lot, add a house-rule.
There are some good tips for new referees in module B1.

>but having trouble figuring out in a consise manner what the differences between...

>OD&D Product Line
LBB (the Little Brown Books), the 3 original D&D booklets. It assumes you have a copy of CHAINMAIL.
OD&D (LBB + the supplements), basically AD&D.
Holmes (Holmes Basic), LBB+Greyhawk but only 'til level 3. Noticeably better written than the LBB.

>AD&D Product Line
AD&D (1st edition), near unplayable due to poor organization. Basically just better organized OD&D.
2e, mechanically this is OSR but ostensibly it's not.

>Basic Product Line
B/X (Moldvay/Cook Basic), branched from OD&D. Leans to "make rulings" over "have rules for everything."
BECMI (Mentzer Basic), slightly revised B/X. Aimed at new players, but has worse organization.
RC (Rules Cyclopedia), BECM in one book.

^ Forgot to mention: RC is a bit light on M.

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>>52183048
Honestly, despite the obvious Tolkien basis for halflings (I mean, they were originally called hobbits, after all), I think that halflings are, in play, significantly different from hobbits. At closest, they're a "what if Bilbo wasn't a reluctant adventurer, but instead was all about that shit", and given that even a reluctant Bilbo was scandalous in hobbit society, that's significantly different.

Personally, I associate a halfling more with a warrow / waerlinga from the Iron Tower trilogy than a Tolkien hobbit. Granted, the Iron Tower trilogy was the prequel to the unauthorized sequel to Lord of the Rings, which makes it essentially alt-LotR, but the notHobbit waerlinga were badass archers and better suited to adventure. I mean, look at that fucker with the bow in the pic. He's serious business. (Hell, at the end of the series, one of them becomes a fucking berserker.) So take this and maybe add a dab of Bilbo burglary, and that's what I imagine.

>>52183725
Holmes only goes through level 3 and is as much a starter set for OD&D (and a stepping stone to AD&D) as it a true edition of Basic.

Moldvay / Cook Basic (B/X) is the first true edition of Basic, and as such, the basis for later Basic editions. It's nice and concise, split between two 64-page books (covering levels 1-3 and 4-14, respectively). There was intended to be another set to cover higher levels, but they instead chose to start over with Mentzer Basic.

Mentzer Basic (BECMI) is almost identical to Moldvay Basic in terms of rules for the stuff that both of them cover. It obviously goes to higher levels though, with 3 out of 5 of its sets covering shit past 14th level. What is significantly different is the (shitty) layout. Mentzer's Basic set takes a "learn as you go" sort of approach which I find really fucking irritating (because it introduces you to a piece of an idea and then when you want to look into it more, you can't, because the full rules about it are hidden somewhere later on, and possibly in a different book). Additionally, all the sets (except for the expert set, for some reason) are split into two books, a player book and a DM book. I feel like this is unnecessary, and it makes shit harder to find (and leads to BECMI being comprised of a total of 9 fucking rulebooks). Other stuff like the way the sections are arranged bothers me as well. It goes clerics, cleric spells, then fighters, then magic-users, then magic-user spells, then thieves, then dwarves and so forth. That means that all the class information isn't together, but rather divided by a bunch of spell information. I really have a hard time ever finding anything in Mentzer Basic.

The Rules Cyclopedia is essentially Mentzer Basic, minus the immortal set, put into one reference book. It's a bit crunchier than Moldvay Basic because of the extra material from all those sets and such, but at its core, the rules are practically the same.

I can't get to the trove. is it dead again?

>>52184992
I still contend that we ended up with 'Kender' because somebody got the bright idea to make halflings that more resembled the way halflings got played at the table in the old days, but things went too far.

>>52185152
>Mentzer Basic (BECMI) is almost identical to Moldvay Basic in terms of rules for the stuff that both of them cover.

Don't forget that instead of giving Thieves new stuff for those higher levels, it took the old level 1-14 skill progression and streeeetched it out to 36 levels so you get better at an agonizingly slow pace, making it probably the weakest Thief in any D&D edition.

Where did the concept of elves only being capable of reincarnating come from?

>>52185233
It's down for me too.

>>52183714
It reminds me of 5e which is fine. I'd be glad as long as it doesn't eventually become build autism.

>>52185233

It's telling me that it was removed. So yeah, Trove's dead. I hope somebody has it backed up.

>>52181808
>spend 30+ minutes getting your scores and stuff juuuust right and double checking your math

That's the exact reason why the system I've been working on since 3.5 has essentially become an OSR. You roll, here's you stats, those're your abilities, and you'd better hope there's the necessary items needed to gain more skills in the dungeon if you want to multiclass.

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>>52181730
I made a point buy for attributes, but that's the closest I've gotten. It's probably overly-involved, but I wanted to avoid dump stats as much as possible, and since the relative importance of attributes varies according to play-style and campaign, I figured it would be nice to let DMs pick which scores were more or less important.

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>>52185718
Gotta be honest with you, that's indecipherable.

idk why the black hack gives me the Dungeon World vibes

>>52185780
Yeah. I probably skimped on the instructions. Basically how it works is this.

Step 1: Decide which attributes seem more or less important than normal in your campaign (maybe you think that dexterity is really powerful but wisdom is pretty gimpy). Just leave them all at normal if you're happy with valuing them the same.

Step 2: Determine how many points people will have to allocate.
--2a: Subtract the number of attributes you marked as "low importance" from the number of attributes you marked as "high importance".* (If you just left all the attributes as "normal", the number will, of course, be 0).
--2b: Cross reference the number you got (which will give you your column on the "number points to spend" table) with how generous a package you want to give people (which will give you your row on the table--note that each package gives you a roughly equivalent dice generation method as well as a very approximate point average) to get the number of points people will have to allocate.

Step 3: Buy your attributes! Go to the "cost of attributes" table, pick how high of a score you want for that attribute, then cross-reference that with how important that attribute is in order to get how many points it costs. If that particular attribute has a racial adjustment, then access the appropriate table for that (an elf, for instance, gets a +1 dexterity, so he would purchase dexterity on the "+1 racial adjustment" table.

It's really convoluted to explain, but once you know what you're doing, everything's pretty obvious.

*Because high-importance attributes are more expensive, so if you want a package that gives people an average attribute of somewhere around 12, they're going to need more points to spend the more high- vs. low-importance attributes they have.

>>52185951

I dunno, I got the same feel. They have that kinda quick jump-in-and-play dungeon crawl thing going, with a sort of indie storygame aesthetic happening.

TROVE DOWN

>>52185253
>Don't forget that instead of giving Thieves new stuff for those higher levels, it took the old level 1-14 skill progression and streeeetched it out to 36 levels
I find it interesting that that wasn't the case originally. The original print of the expert set had the thief skills hitting the ceiling, like they do in Moldvay Basic, but I guess once they got around to planning the Companion set, they couldn't figure out what to do with thieves after that, so they went back and revised the skills so that they went up more gradually than before.

>>52183992
>>52185292
how would you suggest avoiding it becoming those things?

to be honest, I'm currently leaning towards more classes with set upgrade paths. I think you have room to make each class evocative, which can be more inspiring to a player than "you can make whatever you want".

A list of say, 8-16 classes sounds a lot, but it is easier to make a choice between those than 4 classes with 20-50 individual skills/perks to choose from each level.

>>52181703
Because it was written for looooong campaigns where advancement is super slowwww and therefore: nerfed low levels.
Besides, Moldvay teaches you the game in levels 1-3, then in Expert you learn the full rules and get more stuff to do. Basic is the best intro to D&D imo.

As I see it, OSR is divided in:
- people who play old stuff (or simulacra), focus on creating new DM-content, and are happy
- people who play sub-derivates (or heavily homebrewed), focus on creating systems and player-content, and is always missing... something.

Yes/No?

>>52187720
Heavily homebrewed is often overlooking "important" rules, but it's more often than not it isn't missing some aspect of the gameplay.
Otherwise that's pretty spot on.

>>52187720
I don't see why people creating DM content and player content are different entities. Nothing stopping you doing both.

>>52187833
Me neither but that's what I've seen: people publish either mostly system-things or mostly adventure-things.

People who do both extensively are always cloners who focus on retro-compatible stuff, both on the system and content side.

Mega tells me the trove was removed. Does anyone know what's with it?

>>52188063
I feel like system-things require a larger commitment than adventure-things, since adventure things will always leave a portion of the adventure to be interpreted and rulings to be made by the dm

>>52188080
Systems require commitment because you have to test them - and nobody does that because they're already thinking about a different class system or removing hp for something else.
Adventure content also has to be tested, but it's usually easier to do so, since it's usually game-content, not game-tools.

You write an adventure or a spell to play it, out of a necessity; I've never seen a homebrew system-thing that really responds to a true play necessity (other than: my group dislikes this from this edition).

It's like vidja coders. Some like making games and make games, some like making level editors and 3d engines to later on make a game - curiously that never happens.

I'd like to see more people focusing on playable content, but all this is like, my opinion.
I know I'll def use at least a few overly specific spells from yesterday.

>>52188069
>Mega tells me the trove was removed. Does anyone know what's with it?

Literally gigs worth of copyright infringement and you're wondering what happened to it?

as a player of OSR games, do you find the simplicity of character classes freeing or slightly dull?

If you were to spice classes up a bit, what form would that take?

What do you think would strike the best balance between simplicity, fun and customisation - within the limits of the OSR playstyle?

>>52180091
Last thread or the one before, an anon posted his races after being asked about giant toad people. All the races had 'ling' at the end. If somebody saved that, or the dude could repost it, I'd be grateful. It had some cool shit on it like opossum people who could play dead. I'd love to steal some of those ideas for my players who like to mix it up.

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>>52189574

>>52182150
>>52182193
A hype-man, Tributes. One of my players built a Thunderdome for ritualized combat.

>>52189492
>What do you wanna play, anon?
>Like X but with Y and Z
>Cool, you're a <closest B/X class>, plus that.
Default to Fighter when in doubt.

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>>52189492
I like having less classes or even none at all, but a multitude of races to choose from. Especially with games that separate race and class.

>>52189719
Kind of like PDF related: the guy who created it could have chosen to make all-new classes but instead he figured out what archetype each class fit into and gave them a class and equipment based on that. Only a couple of them required homebrewing special abilities.

>>52189492
Simplicity. Roll some dice, make a dood, maybe think of positive and negative trait, go from there. I don't care that the mechanical differences between two fighters can be non-existent, they usually end up being quite different in practice.

is there an alternate trove link, or is it gone for now?

>>52189648
thanks my dude, I appreciate it.

Just a heads up, it looks like White Star and the White Star Companion are now PWYW on RPG Now. Seems kinda cool if you want something sword and planet, or even just to mine for ideas.

I recently got Heores and Other Worlds. Nifty game, there's a lot to like.
I'm considering using it as a base for a campaign, but I have one issue with it.
I have no idea how to convert monsters to it. Did the author ever release some guidelines for it?

What's a good name for a town built out of shipwrecks? I can't call it "The Wreck" because that name is reserved for a bar. My fallback name is "driftwood," but I don't like it because we've been using that word constantly at the table.

>>52191182
The Antelope Sloop.

>you-know-which system bastardized thief skills into a 3.shit nonsense
>has to keep certain skills because they are vital to the game it's cloning

Every player, ever:
>how do skills work?
>what if the DM doesn't call for a skill roll?
>why would you ever use X skill?
>what's the point of the Architecture skill?

And then, when you show then the original game:
>why can't I do <mundane version of thief skill>?
>why do thieves suck?
>why even thief?
>how do I roll to hide behind this barrel?

FML

>>52191207
Hah, that's clever. I'll consider it a contender

>>52191390
A slightly more cheeky option in the same vein is Famous Shipwrecks.
Not names of shipwrecks, literally "Famous Shipwrecks."

The locals overuse "famous" and play it up as a tourist attraction. Even though it's clearly not.

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>>52189492
I think a few of these are obviously jokes or just bad, but I love most of them. This is about what I want from alternative classes.

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>>52191182
>The Wrack
>Saltgrave
>The Boneyard
>Fathom

>>52191613
>Albatross
>The Crow's Rest
>Jetsam
>Half-Hitch

>>52189492
I dont know why, but if the game does not have a lot of classes, my players will say it is a shit system

>>52191182
Shipton
Boatland
The Navy
Wetdock
Captain O'Hannigan's Naval Funtime Land

>>52186836
What you have is options, which is not bad in and of itself. It only turns into 3.pf esque build wars when you have options within options within options where you can take new, abusable options every level. But just having a lot of classes based on a few archetypes? That's fine.

What are your opinion on psionics? Do grogs hate them?

>>52192894
Great concept, fits snuggly in "weird fantasy" settings the BEST fantasy settings, but never implemented well.
You can even see vestigial limbs of previous editions in every version.

>>52192894
Psionics are okay. If available as a player option, they open the setting up to things the DM or other players may not necessarily like very much.
>>52193029
For an example of psionics done well, I would point towards Stars Without Number.

>>52184992
>another human being who has even hear dof McKiernan
This is a weird moment for me.

>>52191182
Flotsam Fortress.

>>52192894
There are three knocks against psionics.

The first is genre conceptual. You can divide modern fantasy into two eras, not via Tolkien but Terry Brooks' Sword of Shannara. Pre-Shannara stuff is all over the place: aliens and even advanced tech bits, alternate dimensions, and of course, psionics. It's weird. This is 1977 and earlier. Shannara is the Tolkien knockoff that dominates fantasy, makes a bajillion dollars, and prompts all the publishers to sign and release knockoffs of it as fast as humanly possible. This, combined with D&D being increasingly influenced by this new fantasy landscape, means you more and more have a generic high fantasy genre, in both gaming and reading, where psionics feel like they don't belong. All the weirdness slowly goes away as the genre is codified into what fantasy "properly" is. In short, ask a 70s fantasy reader what fantasy is and a 90s or up reader and you'll get two radically different answers; psionics only fits in one of those reader bases.

The second is that the early rules for psionics were shit, the powers incredibly hard for a character to get, and the rules weren't really supported in the rest of the game, all of which meant they didn't become established in the player base.

Third, there's the base conceptual issue that people envision psionics as controlling people's minds or otherwise kicking the shit out of non-psionicists, which is obviously very bad for balance. Systems have often struggled with how to make mental powers feel threatening and useful without also lobotimizing non-psionicists AND without just making it feel like an alternate magic system.

>>52192894
Here's a rundown of each version:

>Eldritch Sorcery
• It's really three unrelated systems stapled together.
• Fighting-Man doing wuxia because they well read of yoga.
• Clerics bodily traveling to parallel universes to predict the outcome of planned events.
• Five sections of one book, that cross reference each other at random.
• Near a dozen near identical terms with wildly different meanings.
• Pages upon pages of combat matrices.
• Psionic combat against non-Psionic worked great as a "go mad from the revelation" thing for looking at Demons (etc).
• If you rolled poorly at char gen, your GUARANTEED to die in your first psionic combat.
• Prime Requisite penalties for psionic are harsh if your using Greyhawk.
• Despite otherwise being balanced, the Psionic Wandering Monster rules will tear you a new asshole.

>AD&D 1st Edition
• Despite only being in two sections, this has WORSE organization than Eldritch Sorcery.
• This might actually be the most poorly organized rule set Gygax ever published.
• The psionic combat matrix isn't just bullshit padding.
• The psionic combat matrix has strictly optimal choices.
• Monster write-ups were botched. Everything has way to few PSPs.
• Also the wrong attack/defense modes. Mindflayers don't even have Psionic Blast!

>2e (Complete Psionic Handbook)
• Actually pretty good.
• Does away with staring people to death 10 times before the start of each round.
• Has rules for telekinetic arm wrestling (a la. Yoda v. Palpatine ).
• Unfortunately it crimps NWPs (marries everything to ability scores).
• Lots of new powers.
• All the powers are boring or garbage.

I've got a little over a week to set up a Hex Crawl using DCC as the base rules, 7 Voyages of Zylarthen for it's rules for constructing a map and some of it's encounter table stuff, and taking inspiration from the implied setting of both with a dash of the tables of weird shit at the end of every issue of Swords Without Master.

I feel like it'd be a good idea to dot some modules in places that would make sense. So far I know I want to use an altered version of Little Keep on The Borderlands, and Slumbering Ursine Dunes.

However, I'd like some recommendations for other modules that are really good for a sandbox approach. I'm looking to net about a dozen because I already have a few "main quest" things figured out but I would like to have alot of modules as side quests.

>>52192894 (cont.)
>2e (Player's Option: Skills and Powers)
• The other 2e system, but everything scales to level instead of ability scores.
• LOTS of transcription errors.
• Brings back staring people to death, god knows why.
• Never play tested.
• Ever.
• The weakest attack mode against the weakest defense mode hurts the attacker and defender near equally.
• Every other attack hurts the attacker MORE than the defender.
• Never play tested.
• Ever.


If I were you, I would use the Complete Psionic Handbook version.
But give everything a static target number (keeping the "trade powers known slots for +1 to a single power's target number).
If also make powers automatically successful with "succesful" rolls costing fewer PSPa and "failed" rolls losing to successful rolls in opposed checks.

Actually, that was a lie.
If I were you I'd nick a 3rd party psionic system.

>>52193481
Worlds Without Master is the magazine Swords is the hippy dippy indie game it came with. Which was great as far as hippy dippy games go.

I'm thinking of turning some of the more mundane spells in ACKS into racial traits for a few races I'm creating. Like Infravision, Resist Fire, Resist Cold, etc. Is that in good taste or nah?

>>52192894
I like Psionics as a concept, but I'd treat it as a fluff thing only and just use the existing Magic systems for it, much less of a headache than trying to use pretty much any of the OSR Psionics systems that exist

>>52193052
>For an example of psionics done well, I would point towards Stars Without Number.
I heavily disagree, like almost everything on the Players' side of things in that game, SWN's Psionics system is way too weak and low powered to be of any use

>>52193636
I can dig it

>>52193500

What 3rd party system do you like best?

Is there any good system that uses HP cost for spellcasting?

>>52193654
At third level Biopsionics you can master a power to let heal 1d8+Prime attribute HP without spending anymore Psi Points. Letting you toss HP around like candy, only limited by the amount of Strain the target can handle.

>>52192894
Some of the earliest fantasy I ever read were the Lone Wolf gamebooks, so psionics feel quite natural in a fantasy setting to me.

>>52193930
Should have plugged the series here https://www.projectaon.org/ since it's free and you can see what the psionic system was like.

As an aside I just recalled that Joe Dever won an AD&D tournament back in those days. Magnamund, the setting of his gamebooks was based on his AD&D campaign. I always thought that was interesting.

>>52193391
>Shannara is the Tolkien knockoff that dominates fantasy, makes a bajillion dollars, and prompts all the publishers to sign and release knockoffs of it as fast as humanly possible.

Yep, if you ever wanted to know why modern fantasy is all boring samey rehashes of the same shit over and over, blame old Terry "It's not inspired by Tolkien, I'm doing Faulkner!" Brooks.

I was gonna run Castle Ravenloft with DCC, Then I found the Curse of Stradh in 5e, Should I use it as is or unbloat the HP, I think it is too much.
For example, A vampire in Adnd Haves around 10 HD, in 5e a Vampire haves 17HD+68 points.
Almost all the HPs of all creatures seem gigantic, compared to their ADnD counterparts.

>>52194404
Yeah, 5e has way too many Hit Points, There is a monster conversion guide somewhere for DCC that will give you a rough idea of how much HP creatures should have in it's system. I'd try and convert them that way and try to keep most monsters in a 1 to 12 HD spectrum.

>>52194404
Are you gonna use CoS with 5e? If so, leave it. It's balanced for 5e. If not, rewrite entire blocks, not just HP. DCC and 5e are very different games.

>>52194622
I am going to use CoS with DCC, there are a few blocks that are acceptable, the Stradh Zombie in CoS and the Stradh Zombie in I6 are not that different but are better written in 5e, everything else can be rewritten.
I was making a sheet of all the things I changed in the statblocks, Mostly I use Adnd monster manual if I can't find it in the DCC Book.

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>>52194404
>in 5e a Vampire haves 17HD+68 points.
But why? How many rounds are you supposed to fight it?

>>52194885

5e is very high powered compared to TSR D&D. High levels characters can easily be putting out 40+ damage a round and applying all sorts of crazy tricks and effects to him.

>>52194885
A fighter can make 4 attacks with a greatsword (2d6 + str) by level 5

>>52180091
trove definitely is down

>>52195367
We are doomed.
All hope is lost.
The Dark Times have come once more.

>>52195367
>>52195385
I was just thinking a few nights ago about downloading all the files onto my external drive to archive the knowledge for future generations. Yet now all is lost.

>>52193768
OSR? not that I know of.
But if you want to go with non-TSR oldschool, then Advanced Fighting Fantasy did it.

>>52195468

What you should have done is make a mega account and just import the whole thing, and download at your leisure.
That's also what I should have done, and didn't.

We need a new TroveGuy, ours has been MIA for months.

>>52192894
I like the concept.
I'm too stupid to understand the AD&D psion rules though.

>>52195570
I have the trove backed up to 10.1, I'll have to see if I can get it shared without it getting taken down.

Sell me B1 In Search of the Unknown. I need it.
So far I've read:

>1 room with interesting pools!
>1 room with a random magic item!
>1 unsafe way to climb down fo the basement!
>An undescriptable, unmappable, illogic map
>~40 empty rooms
>Lots of verbose descriptions about mundane stuff
>Lots of verbose descriptions about why and how you can't take the few and worthless treasure that's there, and what problems you'll have if you do actually try to sell it
>A gotcha deathtrap with basically no solution other than finding X mundane item and rolling lots of times with a very low chance - with wandering monster checks every turn.
>Lots of prep work going room by room filling them with meat and shinies
>...?

How do you guys like your Barbarains? Rage dudes or beefy mc forest man.

>>52194932
>High levels characters can easily be putting out 40+ damage a round and applying all sorts of crazy tricks and effects to him.
16 HD Mystics (a la. Master Rules) have AC -6, can take 72 damage (avg.), deal 4 attack of 19.5 damage each (avg.) per round, can go invisible at will, take half damage from all spells, and have an 100% chance to death touch Lolth.

>>52195836
I like mine as fighty thieves.

As we all know Conan was a B/X Thief with high CON.

>>52195836
>Rage dudes or beefy mc forest man.
What's the difference?

>>52195836
>Rage dudes or beefy mc forest man.
Beefy mc forest man, Rage dudes are Berserkers.

>>52195928

I wasn't saying BECMI isn't crazy. I'm a B/X guy specifically because it's less over the top.

>>52195597
They aren't hard, they're tedious.
You aren't stupid, you're lazy.

>>52195663 >>52195385
Any idea who had it taken down?

>>52195946
>>52195948
>>52195951
How would you go about making a Barbarian Class/Subclass to BFRPG ?

I have thought about:
*May use CON instead of DEX for bonus armor class.
*Some thing that gives them extra HP, either higher hit die or some thing like double th bonus from modifier.

>>52195826
>1 unsafe way to climb down fo the basement!
Was it a pit trap? I never ran or read B1, but I played in it, and there was an interesting pit trap that threw us to the lower floor.

>>52196014
>Any idea who had it taken down?

Only TroveGuy would know, since he'd get the message about who filed a complaint.

>>52196067
There's the pit trap, plus a hole in the room next to the smithy, which has an unreliable iron ring anchored to the wall -- but can be used to safely go up and down if you use your own anchorage.

How was the experience? How many sessions did it take?

>>52196299
The DM in question used it as a one-off, so we only played it that one evening. The whole "run in there, see what you can do in an evening, and try not to die horribly"
It was absolutely fantastic, but I'm not sure how much of that can be attributed to the module itself, and how much to him being an absolute master at running games.

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How's this for a fighter ability? I wanted to give a fighter a resource that can bolster them a bit, both in and out of combat. Apparently DCC does something similar, but I haven't looked at it yet.

http://pastebin.com/QHWMjwPq

I was considering adding abilities akin to an accurate strike for ranged attacks and a rallying cry that buffs allies. Any thoughts?

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>>52193272
>another human being who has even hear dof McKiernan
Yeah, some of my friends have read the Iron Tower trilogy, but only because I introduced them to it (I think I originally picked the books up because of their covers, which are great). I quite prefer his more immersive, more down-to-earth approach (in almost every circumstance where he changes a significant detail, I approve of it), but it's a bit tricky pushing a LotR retelling on other people. The Silver Call and Dragondoom were alright, but were lacking the epicness of the Iron Tower.

>>52196043
Maybe some sort of bonus against magic? Conan beat up a lot of deities and shit just by powering through their soul-deadening effects.

Anyone got the version of Mutant Future with the actual art? Can't check the Trove now that it's dead.

>>52196766
Ignoring game balance, it seems like chopping off a limb should really do more damage. I know you say "sunder or otherwise disable", but most of the text reads like you're hacking the thing off ("a monster with its arm sundered", " a monster with a dismembered leg"). Maybe you should change the text to "crippled" or "disabled"? Otherwise, I'm picturing an armless monster bleeding out in short order.

One thing to consider about this ability is that a fighter's ability to hit his target outstrips the AC progression of the monsters he's fighting. This means that the higher the level of the fighter, the greater chance he has of hacking off the limb of a monster of the same level/HD, which seems a bit weird. I worry that a 10th level fighter's better-than-half chance to amputate a limb from a 13th level monster might be a bit broken (either that, or 5th level fighter's significantly reduced chance is underpowered, especially as it's significantly quicker to hack a 5 HD monster to death so it may not even be worth dismembering them).

Maybe it shouldn't be directly based on to-hit, or if it is, the monster should get some kind of bonus (+1 for every 3 levels). Basing it on saving throws instead would turn things around (making it harder to dismember creatures of the same level as you at high levels), though the trend might be a little strong (too easy to sunder at low levels and too hard at high levels). Though given how many hacks a high level creature is away from death, maybe this isn't a problem (particularly if fighters get multiple strikes and you allowed them to be used in conjuction with sunder).

Of course, you could just make it flat roll too: roll a 10 or over to sunder, or some such thing. Whether you do this or you stick with the to-hit model, it makes sense to me to adjust things by the creature's relative level, so that you'd get a -3 penalty to sunder a creature 3 levels higher than you (and maybe up to a +3 for lower level creatures?)

>>52197180
I was using sunder/disable interchangeably simply because hacking off a leg wouldn't make sense for a fighter with a hammer, mechanically it would be the same but narratively different of course.
You're right about the AC thing, I'll probably make it a save. I was planning on recategorizing the saves, and fighters/monsters would have the best saves as usual.

>>52196766
>I was considering adding abilities akin to an accurate strike for ranged attacks and a rallying cry that buffs allies. Any thoughts?
Warrior-types get something called "valor" in my game, which amounts to pretty much the same thing as hero points. Depending on the type of warrior, they can use this to inflict double damage (in the same way you do it), or to gain an additional attack. Barbarians and dwarves do the former, fighters and rangers do the latter. Generally speaking, an additional attack is better, because you can split it up, but I use armor as DR, which does help balance things out a bit (since it only gets applied once to the double damage blow, but once each to the two attacks).

But if getting two attacks is a bit nicer than doing double damage in regular D&D, getting the better of two attack rolls is markedly inferior. Maybe you could make it the better of two to-hit rolls and the better of two damage rolls if you hit? That makes it a bit more competitive with double damage (the double damage still has the edge in terms of damage per round, but the added certainty of the better of 2 rolls for to-hit and damage may balance that out). Just making the bonus to hit big enough is a bit tricky because it has to be so large that you'll end up basically autohitting in most circumstances. If you normally have a 50% chance to hit, for instance, you'd need to increase that to 100% in order to dish out the same damage per round as you would doing double damage.

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>>52197397
>Maybe you could make it the better of two to-hit rolls and the better of two damage rolls if you hit?
I like this. The mechanics make a real flavorful image with an archer aiming for the perfect shot or a fencer aiming right in the joints in a suit of armor.
I'm not too keen on adding anymore attacks since I'm giving fighters plenty with being able to cleave a number of times per initial attack per level, and extra attack starting at level 7 and every 5 levels after.

>>52196766
>a rallying cry that buffs allies.
In my game, all warrior types of a certain level can "rally" any time after the crux of the battle has been reached (an arbitrarily-determined mid point). It can only be done once per team in the battle, and it restores a spent point of talent for all allies (including the warrior doing the rallying). You can spend a point of talent to do shit like get the better of two attack rolls (so it's basically a half-value point of valor / hero point).

Lacking that, maybe you could give folks a bonus to hit or something (all allies attacking that round get the better of two attack and/or damage rolls, or some such thing). That and/or maybe they regain a limited number of hit points through raised spirits.

>>52197397
>>52197504
Alternately, they get the better of two attack rolls, but the hero point isn't spent unless they hit. This seems about right mechanically; it's just a question of whether the "feel" of it sits well with you.

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>>52189574
>>52189648
Aww, people that aren't me are posting my stuff.

>>52193391
>Shannara is the Tolkien knockoff that dominates fantasy, makes a bajillion dollars, and prompts all the publishers to sign and release knockoffs of it as fast as humanly possible.
Weirdly though, the Shannara series itself spirals more and more into odd fucked up post-apocalyptic biorobotech weird fantasy the longer the series goes on. Even the first book has not!Ungoliant be a cyborg spider in the ruins of some skyscrapers, and it just goes apeshit from there. By Scions the protagonists' nation is already being threatened by an evil federation using giant crab zombies as siege beasts and similar crazy shit; then later, it's airships to salvage the remnants of pre-apoc humanity's technology... frankly, what it reads like is play reports from a really creative guy who started out with a really simple by-the-numbers medieval D&D setting, but then started thinking *hard* about backstory, technological progress, and a bunch of other crap.

What's the simplest possible character progression you can think of?

>Fighter
Gets +1 to hit per level. Best HD and equipment.

>Thief
Gets +1 to sneak rolls/sneak attacks every even level, +1 to Thief skill (used with any thieving action) ever odd level. Stats at 8.

>Clerc/Wizards
Spell slots and progression.

Is this it? Or is it too boring?

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Ok, "100 Orthodox Wizard Spell" guy here.
>>52180566
>>52166583

I've got the first 50 written up. They're all in the format used in the game I'm running, so it might be handy to know some more about it if you want to convert the spells to other systems.

Wizards get Magic Dice (abbreviated [dice] ). You get one [die] at Level 1, two at Level 2, three at Level 3, four at Level 4 and then you're done. That's the most you can ever get. Maaaaaybe a legendary staff or a rare potion will give you an extra one.

You also gain one spell slot per level, again, until you reach Level 4. You can cast spells directly from your spellbook, but it's nearly impossible to do if you have to move. Each morning, you can spend 1hr to load your spell slots with spells from your spellbook (they vanish from the pages).

Spells have effects based on the [dice] you use to cast the spell and the [sum] of those dice. You can choose how many dice to invest in a given spell. If a die rolls a 1-3, it returns to your casting pool and can be reused. Otherwise, it's gone for the day. You get all your [dice] and your spells back if you sleep for 6hrs.

Most PCs have about 8 HP at level 1. Hit Dice are d8s. Peasants have 1, Zombies have 2, Owlbears have 5, Dragons have 12 or more.

There are a bunch of Wizard Schools. Orthodox Wizards are the "classic" D&D Magic Users in a lot of ways. They proclaim that they are the only all-male School, and that women make inferior and unreliable wizards. In smaller cities, headmasters and scholars are fooled by the old "fake beard and a pair of socks down the robes" trick that wouldn't fool a nearsighted goblin. The trick works provided the tuition money keeps flowing.

>>52193272
>>52196789

Count me as a third. My high school sweetheart introduced me to them. She was (and I assume still is) a big fantasy reader.

Something I always liked was the Gargan, the Fear Caster.

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>>52198419

Orthodox Wizards get a few cantrips, but they aren't anything special compared to other Schools.

Cantrips:
1. Change the colour or texture of an object for 10 minutes
2. Create a tiny light as bright as a match on your fingertip.
3. Move a light object within 30' with a wave of your finger. You could cause a coin to roll along the ground or turn the pages of a book, but you couldn`t open a door or lift a stone.

Wizards generate spells each level from their School Spell List. You roll 2 d6 and get those 2 spells at Level 1. You roll a d10 at Level 2 and a d12 at Level 2. At Level 4, you can pick 6 spells off your list or invent an entirely new spell. Emblem Spells are your school's "Oh, right, you're that kind of Wizard" spells. You can only get them (without stealing them) at Level 4.

Before I post the 50 spells I invented, I'm going to post the rules for these spells to give you an idea of scale and power level.

Spell List
1. Lock (General)
2. Knock (General)
3. Grease (General)
4. Force Field (General)
5. Levitate (General)
6. Magic Missile (General)
7. Feather Fall (General)
8. Sleep (General)
9. Light (General)
10. Wizard Vision (General)
Emblem Spells
11. Prismatic Ray (General)
12. Fireball (General)


Lock
R: 50' T: [dice] objects D: 10 minutes
Non-living object closes and becomes locked. If the object is a door, chest, or similar object, it will slam shut, dealing [sum] damage to any creature passing through it and then trapping them. This spell works on things that aren't technically portals (for example, a sword could be locked in its scabbard). Requires Str 10 + [dice]x4 to open. Alternatively, this spell can be cast on a creature's orifice. The creature gets a Save to resist, and another Save at the end of each of its turns.

>>52198419

Not trying to interrupt your magic system text-wall here, but is this based off of or the same as Goblin Punch's magic rules? Seems similar.

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>>52198520
Knock R: 50' T: [dice] objects D: 0
Object is opened. Doors are flung wide, locks are broken, shackles are bent open, belts come undone. Treat this as a Strength check made with Str 10 + [dice]x4. If target is an armoured creature, they must Save or the armour falls off. If target is an unarmoured creature, they must Save or vomit for 1d4 rounds.

Grease
R: 50' T: object, surface D: [dice]x2 rounds
Can be cast directly on a creature or a 10' x 10' surface. Save vs Dex or drop held objects, or, if moving, drop prone.

Force Field
R: 10' T: plane or sphere D: concentration
Creates a shimmering force field, [dice]x10' square, centered up to 10' away. Alternatively, create a sphere centered on the caster [dice]x5' in diameter (large enough for the caster and +[dice] people). Force field has [sum] HP. All attacks against it hit.

Levitate
R: 50' T: object D: concentration
You will an object to raise, lower, or hover. You cannot move the object horizontally, and you cannot move it more than 10' per turn. Maximum weight is [dice]x500 lbs. Lasts as long as you concentrate, but you take 1d6 psychic damage per round after [dice]x3 rounds.

Magic Missile
R: 200' T: creature D: 0
Target takes [sum] + [dice] damage, no save.

Feather Fall
R: touch T: [dice] creatures or objects D: 0
Negate all fall damage. If you would take fall damage, you can cast this spell as a reaction to negate it.

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>>52198548
It's pretty much identical. I might have tweaked the wording here and there. I'm running a game using Arnold K.'s heartbreaker system.

Wall of Text has a duration of "concentration".

>>52198614
Sleep
R: 50' T: creature D: 10 min
Target falls into a magical slumber, and can't be awoken by anything less vigorous than a slap (a standard action). Non-alert, unaware targets are not allowed a Save. Can affect any number of creatures, up to [sum] HD. If [sum] is at least 4 times the creature's HD, the duration becomes permanent (until slapped) and the creature no longer needs to eat or drink while sleeping. If you also invested 3 [dice] or more into this spell, and you target only a single creature, the duration becomes permanent, and you can set the only condition that will cause the creature to awake (the sunrise before the apocalypse, true love’s kiss, etc.)

Light
R: touch T: object D: [dice]x2 hours
Object illuminates as a torch, with a radius of 20’+[dice]x10’ With a successful attack roll, you can touch a creature's face, blinding them for [sum] rounds. If you invest at least 4 dice, this light has all the qualities of natural sunlight.

Wizard Vision
R: touch T: sighted creature D: 10 min
If you invest one [die]: You can see invisible things. You can see through illusions. Non-magical disguises are not penetrated.
If you invest two or more [dice], you get permanent Wizard Vision: http://goblinpunch.blogspot.ca/2014/05/optional-rule-wizard-vision.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l67RK_tvaM

I'm not going to bother posting Prismatic Ray, but Fireball is just:

Fireball
R: 200' T: 20' diameter D: 0
Does [sum] fire damage to anything in the spell's area.

>>52198226
Something like Fire Emblem. Frequent level-ups, lots of little levels.
Each combat statistic (damage, defense, etc.) has a chance (based on class/aptitude) to (slightly) increase each level.
A few abilities are gained (based on class) at certain levels (1, 10, etc.)

Maybe tie grow chance to attributes, and make which abilities are gained semi-random (for variety)?

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>>52198715
Orthodox Wizards have a major advantage over other, more esoteric schools. The spell list given in their class template is fairly basic, but Orthodox Wizards invent/breed new spells with alarming regularity. Ancient Orthodox Wizards sometimes give up spellcasting entirely and devote their time to manufacturing true-breeding copies of useful spells. Archmage Karl Gustovaphanopolos III claimed he could scribe one magic missile spell every hour, on the hour, without tiring or suffering a fatal brain hemorrhage.

When you create an Orthodox Wizard, you may replace any spells on your School Spell list from 1 to 9 with a random spell from the list below. For example, you could roll to replace 2. knock and 5. levitate. You can only replace these spells at character creation.

These spells are not carefully balanced, but since you don't get to choose your spells, I don't think it's a big deal.

THE LIST BEGINS IN THE NEXT POST

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1. Bartholomew's Pit
R: 50' T: creature D: 0
Target creature has the illusion of falling into bottomless pit filled with accusatory voices for one round. Save negates. If they fail, the creature is stricken with a deep depression (if sentient) or lethargy (if mindless), and takes [sum] Charisma damage. If they are of [dice] HD or less, the effect lasts [sum] days, and if [sum] is greater than 12, the effect is permanent. If the target has more than [dice] HD, the effect lasts [sum] rounds.

2. The Razor Spiral
R: Self T: [dice]x10' radius D: concentration
Blades of invisible force fly around the caster. All creatures in area take 1d4 damage each round the spell is maintained. Roll damage for each creature individually, starting with those closest to the caster. The spell ends automatically when [sum]+3 damage has been dealt. The blades will also cut or damage fragile objects in the area.

3. Oxhold's Lament
R: 120' T: creature D: 0
Target creature of [dice] HD or less must Save vs Fear or take a Morale check, or believe that someone close to them has suddenly and tragically died. They will not associate the caster with this death, but intelligent creatures may believe the caster is only informing them to cause them grief.

4. Negasonic Ray
R: [dice]x20‘ cone T: area D: concentration
Rippling rings of purple light pour from the caster's forehead. All sounds are cancelled within the area of this spell. Creatures are deafened until the spell ends or they leave the spell's area.

5. Summon Candles
R: touch T: object D: 5 minutes / 3hrs
[sum] dribbly candles appear on objects you touch. You can walk around placing candles as required, for up to 5 minutes. The candles burn for 3 hours. They can be detached, but will fade from existence within 5 minutes. If any spells are cast within an area illuminated by a summoned candle, the candle's flame will turn blue and point to the caster.

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>>52198783
6. Perilous Bridge
R: [dice]x100' T: object D: 1hr
A shimmering bridge of force appears from an object the caster touches, and extends, perfectly level, in a single direction. Both ends of the bridge must touch solid objects. The bridge is 1' wide and thin as a sheet of paper. Slowly walking across it does not require a Save vs Dexterity, but running or a slight breeze will require one. The bridge shatters if it is dealt any damage.

7. Wending Bolt
R: 200' T: creature D: 0
Target takes [sum] damage. You do not need to see the target, but you do need to know their approximate location (within 10'), and there must be a clear path a bolt could trace to reach them. The path can be as convoluted as required. The bolt can pass through gaps as small as a fist.

8. Thunderclap
R: 200' T: creature D: 0
Target takes 1d6 damage. All creatures within [dice]x10' of the target are deafened for [sum] rounds. If [sum] is greater than 12, the effect is permanent.

9. Compartmentalize Mixture
R: touch T: object D: 1hr
Command a mixture of items (a soup, a pile of coins) that weigh no more than [dice]x100lbs to separate into [sum]+1 categories. The separation is slow, and hindered by even the slightest effort. The categories must be clearly defined and identifiable by inspection. For example, you could split a soup into "vegetables" "broth" and "poison", or a pile of coins into "minted during the last century" and "older". You could not, however, split a pile of coins into "handled by Xerphion the Tyrant" and "not handled by Xerphion the Tyrant", as there's no way to tell just by inspecting them. You could not separate "a locked chest" and "its contents", because the items could not flow freely into separate piles.

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>>52198796
10. Master Ludwig's Guiding Lights
R: [dice]x1 miles T: self D: [sum] hours
Small glowing lights flow from your fingertips. They are as bright as a match, but you can always see them, even in bright sunlight or pitch darkness, at any distance up to 1 mile. The lights guide the caster to an object, person, or location that they believe will result in the emotional state named when the spell is cast. If the caster names "love", they will lead to the nearest sexually compatible person of similar age. If the caster names "joy" they might lead to a well of nitrous oxide, or to a pile of treasure, or to a crude goblin joke scrawled on a wall. The lights are not malicious, but they are not very clever.

11. Roaring Flames
R: 30' cone T: area D: 0
A wide cone of crackling fire races across the ground. Creatures in the area take [sum] damage, Save vs Dex for half. The flames are particularly damaging to inanimate objects, which take [sum]x2 damage. Creatures and objects are not set on fire by this spell.

12. The Astrologer's Helper
R: 10' T: self D: [sum] minutes
Outlines of the planets, major stars, sun, and moon appear around you. You can use them to determine the time of day, true north, and your approximate position on the globe. You can also spend 5 minutes to read the horoscope of [dice] sentient creatures per casting. Roll 1d10. 1-8. No effect aside from the usual platitudes. 9. Doom. Creature must reroll their next Save and take the worse result. 10. Triumph. Creature automatically passes their next Save.

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>>52198838
13. Heroic Leap
R: touch T: creature D: [dice] minutes
Target can leap up to [sum]x5' high and/or [sum]x5' forward in a straight line. They take no damage on landing, provided they land on or above the level they started from. For example, you could leap from the ground to top of a steeple, or you could leap over the steeple to land on the ground, but you couldn't leap from the top of a steeple to the ground. On landing, the target may Save vs Dex to change direction and repeat the leap. You cannot cast spells or attack while leaping.

14. The Magnificent Sponge
R: touch T: self D: [dice] hours
You summon a yellow sponge the size of your head. The sponge can instantly absorb up to [sum]x100L of liquid without growing heavier. You can squeeze the liquid free, but only at the rate of a normal sponge (10L/minute). The sponge can be reused if it is wrung out completely. If you cast this spell with 4 [dice], the sponge lasts for a year and a day, but the spell does not return to your spellbook until the sponge duration expires or the sponge is dispelled. The sponge is impervious to harm caused by the liquids it absorbs.

15. Ice-Bridge Step
R: touch T: [dice] creatures D: [sum] minutes
You can run over water as if it were land. Ice forms beneath your feet with each step. If you slow down, you'll sink. Very wavy seas may require you to Save vs Dex.

16. Embroider Deed
R. Touch T: object (cloth) D: permanent
By dictating descriptions of your heroic deeds, you can cause a tapestry to sew itself into cloth you provide. The cloth can be as small as a handkerchief or as large as a vast hall's wall. The deeds must focus on you and your actions, but other characters can be added in, as required by the story. The tapestry is worth [sum]x10gp. It takes [dice] hours of work to dictate the tale, and if you are interrupted, you must Save or the spell fails.

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>>52198850
17. Multielemental Spray
R. 15' cone T: area D: varies
If [sum] is equal to or greater a creature in the area's HD, they take 1d4 fire damage. If [sum] is twice the creature's HD or more, they also take 1d4 cold damage. If [sum] is three times the creature's HD or more, they take 1d4 lightning damage. If [sum] is four times the creature's HD or more, they also take 1d4 acid damage and are knocked prone.

18. Miniature Sandstorm
R: 30’ radius T: self D: [dice] hours
You cough up a swirling tornado of sand. Everything up to 30' away from you is obscured. The sand deals no damage, but creatures move at half speed within the sandstorm's effect.

19. Embed Memory
R. touch T: creature D: varies
You pull a single memory out of your head and transfer it to another creature. Unwilling creatures may Save to negate. The memory must be short, and it must be distinct. The memory is perfectly vivid for [sum] days but begins to fade after that. If [sum] is greater than 12, the memory will never fade, even if the target loses all other memories.

20. Moon Lust
R: 50' T: creature D: varies
Target creature loves the moon. They want to stare at it, jump up and hold it, or write poems about it. If [sum] is equal to or greater than the target's HD, they are stunned for 1d6 rounds. If [sum] is greater than 12, the target is stunned for 2d6 rounds and becomes permanently obsessed with the moon.

21. Orbiting Spikes
R: 30' T: self D: [sum] rounds
You summon [dice] daggers of force that orbit your head like a very angry halo. With a thought, even if you are doing something else, you can throw a spike at a target. Treat this as a thrown dagger, but with a maximum range of 30'. You can throw one spike per round.
It's no magic missile, but it does leave the caster free to do other things.

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>>52198885
23. Flip Person
R: 50' T: [dice] creatures D: 0
Target creatures with total HD of [sum] or less are flipped head-over-heels, to land on their feet unharmed and in the same position. Loose items, coins, etc. may be shaken free. Targets must Save or be stunned for one round.

24. Sword of Infamy
R: touch T: sword D: [sum] rounds
Creatures killed by this sword reveal their souls briefly before death. For most creatures, the soul appears as a small, vaporous homunculus which vanishes after a few moments. This effect may cause a Save vs Fear or a Morale check.

25. Hammon's Arrow-Directing Lens
R: 200' T: creature D: [sum] rounds
A lens of force appears 5' over the target. Any arrows that pass within [dice]x10' of the lens are directed to the target. Make a new attack roll if the arrows would have ordinarily missed the target. This only affects arrows, not stones, spears, or crossbow bolts.

26. Pergaman's Synesthesia
R: touch T: creature of [dice]x2 HD or less D: [sum] rounds
The target's senses are confused and mixed. Colours also evoke sounds. Tastes evoke flashes of light. Different textures cause different flavours. The target is befuddled for the spell's duration. If [sum] is greater than 12 the effect is permanent, but the target will become used to their new senses and no longer befuddled in 20-Int days.

27. Lengthen Limbs
R: touch T: willing creature D: [sum] minutes
Up to [dice]x2 of the target's limbs double in length. If all a creature's walking limbs are affected, the creature's move speed is also doubled for the duration of the spell. Weapons wielded in a lengthened limb can reach further than normal. This effect does not change the structure or form of the limbs. It merely affects one of the many dimensions surrounding them, which also causes the limbs to appear further away than usual. If you invest 3 or more [dice] the spell's duration becomes [sum] hours.

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How about this for classes. See pic.

You get your basic 3 or 4 classes. But you also pick a sub-class that has a list of spacial perks and unique mechanics that you can pick from each level.

You could make up as many of these sub classes as you like. Make as many list entries as you can think of. Pic is an example of what I came up with off the top of my head.

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28. Alter Local Gravity
R: 50' T: [sum]x5' squares D: [sum] rounds
You must cast this spell indoors, in an area with a solid roof no more than 50' high. An areas that you specify has its gravity altered a) an angle that you specify (90 degrees left, 180 degrees up), or b) to a lower strength that you specify (50%, 0%) for the duration of the spell. The spell's effect takes place gradually, giving creatures a chance to Save vs Dex to hang on to something. Creatures take fall damage as normal. In lower gravity, you can jump proportionately higher and farther, but virtually any action requires a Save vs Dex. If you invest 3 or more [dice] the spell's duration becomes a year and a day.

29. Thicken Air
R: 50' T: [sum]x5' squares, 50' high D: [sum] rounds
Air in an area you select becomes as dense as water. You can still breathe it, but you can also swim in it. Projectiles passing through the area count as moving twice as far for range penalties. Flying creatures entering the area must Save or be stunned for one round. If you invest 3 or more [dice] the spell's duration becomes a year and a day.

30. Scything Disc of Nog
R: 200' T: creature D: 0
You fire a whirling disc of force and light from your fingertip. The disc screeches like a sawblade. It deals [sum] damage to its target. If it deals more than 6 damage, it bounces towards a random creature within 20', dealing [sum]-2 damage. If it deals more than 6 damage, it bounces towards another random creature within 20', dealing [sum]-4 damage. This continues, losing 2 damage with each bounce, until there are no valid targets or the spell deals 6 or less damage to a creature.

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>>52198972
31. Delayed Noxious Odour Sphere
R: 50' T: point D: [sum] rounds/0
A marble-sized bead of grey-green ooze lands at a point you select. At any time within [sum] rounds, you can cause the sphere to detonate. Any creatures within a 20' of the sphere's detonation must Save vs Constitution or flee the area, as a failed Morale check, to wash. The area is filled with a thick green mist that lasts for [dice] hours. The spell does not affect creatures with no sense of smell, mindless creatures, or creatures who habitually live in filth (goblins, shambling mounds, etc.)

32. Scuttle
R: touch T: [dice] creatures D: [sum] minutes
Your clothes and hair animate to carry you. You can move at full speed in any orientation, and you can freely rotate as you move. For instance, you could run while standing on your head, holding a torch, and turning counterclockwise. You can lie on your side and, while flipping end over end, move backwards. This effect does not allow you to climb up walls, but you can climb ladders or rope at twice your usual speed.

33. Gelatinous Form
R: touch T: self D: [sum] rounds
Your flesh becomes gelatinous. You can squeeze through gaps as small as keyhole with a great deal of effort. You take no damage from bludgeoning weapons for the duration of the spell. Any acid damage you take heals HP instead. Your clothes and items are not affected by this spell.

34. Transfer Exhaustion
R: 20' T: self, creature D: 0
This spell can only be cast if you are exhausted. At a bare minimum, you need one sleepless or restless night. You bundle your exhaustion into a ball and toss it at a creature. The creature must Save or be stunned for [dice] rounds. You immediately heal [dice]x2 HP. The creature may take on some aspects of your personality. This spell has no effect if you have less than 0 HP.

>>52198614
>>52198715
Interesting. I've been considering going through the Basic spells and reorganizing them a bit -- maybe re-leveling or tweaking some of them, tossing a few out, importing a few from AD&D, and generally standardizing them with regards to range and so forth. It seems like you're standardizing ranges a bit (unless shit just happened to fall into those categories): short (10'), medium (50') and long (200'). I think I may go for a default range and only mention range on spells that differ from that. Why 50' and 200' rather than ranges corresponding to movement (in increments of 30')? Or do you do movement differently?

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>>52198987
35. William's Fingerbreaker
R: 100' T: creature of [dice]x2 HD or less D: 0
The target of this spell must have fingers. You snap your fingers and your target's fingers crack, break, and bend. They take [sum] damage and must immediately Save or drop whatever they are holding. You can choose to have the target take no damage, but they get +2 to their Save.

36. Geld Animal
R: 20' T: creature of [dice]x2 HD or less D: [sum] days
The target must Save or take 1 damage, and lose 1d4+[dice] Strength for the duration of this spell. The target is also rendered sterile for the duration. There are no visible physical effects from this spell. If [sum] is greater than 12, the target is rendered sterile permanently, but they will recover their lost Strength after [sum] days. This spell only works on living creatures capable of reproducing.

37. Draw Heat
R: [dice]x100' T: 2 objects or creatures D: concentration
You must have at least two working eyes to cast this spell. You stare at one object with one eye, and another object with another. You can transfer heat from one target to the other. For example, if you stared at a torch, you could transfer the fire's heat (1d6 damage)/round) to a creature. You can do nothing else while casting this spell. You cannot amplify the heat, so a candle's flame cannot melt an iron bar, but you could transfer the icy cold of a glacier to a campfire and extinguish it.

38. Thurmond's Prolonged Bombardment
R: 200' T: creature or object D: [sum] rounds
Each round, a fist-size sphere of force appears and slams into the target, dealing 1d6+[dice] damage. Save each round to negate. If the target is human-sized or smaller and takes 7 damage, it is also knocked prone.

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>>52199020
39. Visualize Madness
R: 20' T: creature D: [sum] minutes
Target must be insane. The spell create an illusory scene above the target's head that conveys their insanity. If a king believes himself to be an owl, the illusion might show a forest of trees and a grey owl crowned with gold flitting among them. If the target is paranoid, shadowy figures with long knives might surround their head, plotting and muttering. The target cannot see the illusion. Orthodox Wizards think this spell is much more useful than it actually is. Very cruel Wizards might keep a menagerie of madmen to entertain their friends, or visit asylums to gaze at the delusions of the inmates.

40. Cuspit's Swarm of Irritating Vermin
R: 50' T: [dice] creatures or objects D: [sum] rounds
A cloud of tiny magical insects attack your target. They do 1 damage per round to living creatures and no damage to nonliving creatures. Each round, a non-mindless creature must Save or take a -2 penalty to their next Attack. If the target is an object, the vermin will do minor cosmetic damage, such as chewing holes in paper, gnawing wood, chipping paint, and scratching glass.

41. Cone of Dense Foam
R: [dice]x10' cone T: area D: 0
A huge cone of white foam sprays from your hand. It's as dense as porridge, but tastes like seawater. Creatures inside must Save vs Con or begin to drown unless they struggle free. Any creatures covered in foam have -2 to Attack until they can wash.

42. Weighty Sphere
R: touch T: point D: [sum] hours
You summon a stone sphere with a radius up to [dice]x2'. The sphere is immensely heavy. 2' radius: 2.5 tons. 4' radius: 22.5 tons. 6' radius: 78 tons. 8' radius: 182 tons. It is perfectly smooth and very difficult to lift. You must summon the stone onto a stable surface. For example, you can't summon it by touching water or sand, but you could summon it on top of a flimsy wooden railing. If you invest 3 or more [dice], you may make the spell's duration permanent.

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>>52199038
43. Duelist's Wings
R: touch T: [dice] creatures D: [sum] rounds
Tiny white wings sprout from your ankles and wrists. In combat, you may make a free Combat Maneuver to reposition yourself each turn. Your move speed increases by 5' and you reduce all fall damage by 2.

44. Screaming Teeth
I haven’t finished writing this one yet. Too many options. Terrible, terrible options.

45. Beatific Scrying
R: 1 mile T: creature D: [sum] rounds
You gain a misty vision of the nearest sentient creature, aside from creatures you can see, who is performing a genuinely kind or selfless act. You might see a mother tucking her squabbling children into bed or a gardener freeing a wounded fox from a trap. If no targets are available, the spell fails.
Developed by a wizard tired of scrying on cruel and miserable people all the time, this spell has been used to justify burning villages or sacking cities. After all, if repeated castings fail...

46. Glamour of Servitude
R: touch T: sentient humanoid creature D: [sum] varies, see below
Target's clothes transform into livery. Other minor cosmetic effects, such as a change in hair colour, may also occur. The target appears to be a minor servant or hireling. This effect is so convincing that even people close to the target will believe the target has been demoted or promoted, and must Save to believe otherwise. The target may Save at the end of each duration interval to negate the effects. 1 [dice]: minutes, 2 [dice]: hours, 3 [dice]: months, 4 [dice] years. Despite the name, this is not an illusion, but a true transformation.

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>>52199074
47. Ulric's Beam of Blindness
R: 100' T: creature of [dice]x2 HD or less D: varies
A brilliant white ray shoots from your forehead. Target must Save or go blind for: 1 [dice]: minutes, 2 [dice]: hours, 3 [dice]: months, 4 [dice] years. You may chose any number of the target's eyes to blind. This spell can be reflected by mirrors

48. Saw and Plane Tree
R: touch T: 1 tree D: 0
A tree no larger than 60' tall and 25' in diameter topples over, as if neatly cut. The result depends on the dice you invest. 1 [dice]: cut and broadly de-limbed, 2 [dice]: cut, de-limbed, debarked, 3 [dice]: cut, de-limbed, debarked, cut into planks as per your specifications, stacked, 4 [dice] cut, planed, de-limbed, debarked, cut into planks, stacked, sanded, and finished. Small limbs and offcuts will be piled for kindling. Alternatively, you can reduce the tree to sawdust or wood chips in 24-[sum] minutes

49. Glorious Starburst
R: 100' T: area D: [sum] rounds
You fire a flare 100' upwards. It hovers there, providing light as bright as moonlight for 300' around you, for [sum] rounds. You can command the starburst to move horizontally, change colour, rise an additional 100' per round, or explode into sparkles. If it strikes a creature or object, it deals 1d6 fire damage and then explodes into sparkles.

Question for people who play DCC or just use it's Mighty Deed mechanic: do your players ever utilize it? My players straight up never feel like it's a good idea to use it, even when I've explained it to them several times and suggest using it rather than doing a normal attack. Player who use classes without it are doing more interesting things during battle. It just doesn't seem to be effective.

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>>52199087
50. Identify Owner
R: touch T: object D: 1 minute
Letters appear over the object you touch, spelling out the name of the object's owner or owners. If the object has no owners. If you invest 2 [dice] the spell will also show if the ownership is disputed. Dead people cannot dispute ownership. If you invest 3 [dice], arrows will appear pointing in the approximate direction of the owner (or a skull will appear if they are deceased). The name revealed will be name the owner used when they purchased or acquired the object. For example, if Tabitha Winklewort was using her alias "Jane Crow" when she bought her boots, the name listed would be Jane Crow. If you targeted a ring she stole and invested 2 [dice] or more, the names listed would be Jane Crow and Baron Summerland. If you invest 4 [dice], true names will be listed alongside aliases, provided the owners are mortal. This spell also works on slaves and domesticated animals.

+++++

So, thoughts? Major typos?

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>>52199004
I'm just slapping ranges on at random. I usually go with "Missile-like spells should be 200'. Other spells that deal damage are 100'. 50'-20' is for weird things or damage effects that seem 'heavy'. Uh. Touch. Hrm."

That's about it.

And in the game I'm running, movement is generally a lot shorter per round (10'-15 in combat, 30' running).

It's more for flavour anyway. I mean, how many times have you actually used the maximum range of a spell?

>>52195570
>We need a new TroveGuy, ours has been MIA for months
He talks in Discord chat daily, I don't know what you're on about.

What are some good actual play videos/podcasts?

>>52199104
>So, thoughts? Major typos?
This is great! I really like what you're doing here. I don't have time to go over everything right now (life has somehow piled up on me recently, and I'm scrambling to get out from beneath the avalanche of crap I need to do), but I'm very interested in your project. A lot of these are very flavorful and evocative too, and not just a Flaming Fire Flame spell which inflicts 2d6 fire damage on one target. Please keep up the good work.

>>52199182

Really? I'm on about him not showing up in the actual OSRG thread, and there having been a ton of things posted for the Trove over the past five or six months that never got added. I should know because I posted a lot
If he's in that discord thing, great, somebody tell him the Trove's down, and find out who sent the takedown.

>>52199151
That was one of the major reasons I wanted to standardize spells. Why have extraneous information you seldom use? Just go with a standard spell range for most everything, and a short and long one (in addition to touch/self) as needed. A very few spells might have unique ranges, but most everything falls into a broad group, which makes things easy to remember.

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>>52199284
That'd help, sure. I just threw ranges on there out of habit, but I could very easily go with Long, Medium, Short, Touch.

On the other hand, since most characters are likely to have no more than 16 spells /ever/...

>>52199241
Thanks! The goal is to make spells that have that OSR feel. Spells that feel like tools you could use to solve challenges like http://goblinpunch.blogspot.ca/2016/03/1d135-osr-style-challenges.html

Spells that reward you for using them creatively. And some "do damage" spells too, of course, but with interesting twists.

>Get all pumped up to run a B/X spelljammer campaign!
>Sit down and fail to worldbuild for three hours.

I'm right fucked.

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>>52199651
It's easy enough to do on the fly. Just have a list of city names, a list of people names, and a blank sheet of paper. Make up details during game, as needed. You don't need much to start.

Are there some non OSR games that follow the simple PC basis?

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>>52198939
I like everything but the "pick stuff twice" cap.

Why not make it work this way?

You get up to 4 Templates. You can go Bounty Hunter A, B, C, D, or Bounty Hunter A, B Barbarian A, B , or Fighter A, Barbarian A, Wizard A, Rogue A

That way, you can have any classes you want. There might be nice bonuses for stacking classes (like getting 3 templates of Fighter gives you Improved Fighting or something), but maybe some templates synchronize. Maybe if you go Barbarian A,B you get a bonus to spell damage while raging, so you might also go Sorcerer A to get a bit of spellcasting.

Some templates give you bonus HP for each one you get, or bonus stealth, or bonus whatever.

>>52199670
Good advice, but where is that picture from, that is wonderful.

>>52199104
>If the object has no owners.
...?

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>>52199831
Ah, right. If the object has no owners the spell fails.

>>52199846
Ought to name the caster.

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>>52199867
It will, the moment they pick it up. But that might be tricky for, say, a cliff. Or a basilisk. You actually need to own the item.

>>52199781
Too complicated, imo.
Also leads towards builds. As someone said earlier, if you allow for all these different combinations, it invites people trying to find some overpowered build.

Plus you, the creator have to think up synergies and build it in and think about how shit interacts across all other classes. The more classes you add, the more unmanageable it becomes.

Infinite combinations tend to be uninspiring. Choice paralyzation.

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>>52199908
It's a fair point, but it should be manageable for about 8 or 10 template stacks. Since monoclassing is generally more favourable (those D templates are good), it's only the obsessives or the eccentrics that spread themselves about.

>>52199682
I find Mini Six lends itself to simplicity despite having skill lists, hero point metacurrency, and point buy character creation. Most PCs just have their stats, a handful of skills, and maybe a perk. Characters can be generated in less than five minutes.

>>52195826
Get the B1 fan sourcebook here; includes a more sensible 1st level map and several stocking options.

https://sites.google.com/site/zenopusarchives/home/modules-and-scenarios/b1-in-search-of-the-unknown

There's still not nearly enough treasure to get a party to second level, consider adding two or three big gem & jewelry stashes.

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>>52199784
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracaena_cinnabari

>The dragon blood tree

Oh, this article is going to be good. Are you sure this isn't from an OSR blog somewhere?

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Are duels common in your setting? If so, what are the rules?

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>>52200847

Magic Duels are.

>Wizards face off in magical duels
>Instead of combat though, magic duels are performed in the real world
>Not allowed to interfere directly; instead they must use magic to try as subtly as possible influence fate, the targets, and the events regarding it.
>Example scenarios involve getting a religious king to cheat on his wife, or a young farmer boy to become rich and famous.
>Each Wizard picks a side and does whatever they deem necessary to influence events to get their sides outcome
>If any of the involved parties realize they are in a Wizard's duel, the one who ended up revealing this information loses. Occasionally, a Wizard may secretly collude with a subject of the duel, and as long as the other wizard doesn't find out this counts as a valid strategy.
>At any point the Wizards may meet in a neutral place and extend the duration of the duel
>Typically, duels can be fought over weeks and years, but often they are extended into centuries or even longer
>Many scholars believe our reality is a Wizard's duel between two even greater forces, such as Law and Chaos or Nature vs Man. It is unsure as to what is the point where one of the greater forces will 'win' this battle however.

>>52200960

So a Wizard's Duel is seeing who can be the biggest asshole???

>>52193429
You're neglecting to mention the new powers in Dragon Kings and THE WILL AND THE WAY—none of which are boring nor garbage.

The system is tight. Disintegrate is a good power, deal with it. Summon planar creature is good, deal with it. Banishment is good, deal with it.

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>>52201001

>Wizard's Duel
>Implying 'asshole' isn't right there in the name

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>>52201001
No, being a Wizard is about seeing who can be the biggest asshole.

A Wizard's Duel is just a way of codifying it.

This is why Wizards get sent to wizard colleges. They get a healthy dose of patriotism and die on the battlefield, or they work to pay off their Wizard Student Loans, or they explode, or they get too involved in petty academic feuds and are too busy ruining their own lives to bother ruining anyone else's.

>>52201057
Also The Will and the Way provides necessary errata and explanation for PHBR5. It's tight. Really rounds out the system. Retarded that it came out at the same time as Lorraine Williams and her pet spawn Skip Williams destroying the psionics system and replacing it with the REVISED AND IMPROVED system wherein every single aspect was made nonfunctional.

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How do people ITT feel about spell research rules?

What about random chance spell learning to determine power of spell? Or rather whenever you go to research a spell you basically roll dice to see how well you know it, and if you fuck it up you can't learn it again.

Or for example you'd roll 2d6 and if you roll'd 6-8 you'd be required to use a material component to cast X spell. If you rolled 9-10 you would not need a component. If you rolled 11-12 you'd be able to cast that spell at one spell slot lower then normal. Rolling 5-6 requires you to cast the spell directly from the spell book, and anything less and you just don't learn the spell.

I've seen one or two versions of this but I'd like more ideas and good practices for balance if anyone has them. I think it's a really interesting way to differentiate magic users without relying on multiple similar classes or forcing them to specialize in spell schools.

>>52199369
Are you going to put there into pdf? If you're not do you mind if I do later? Have to sleep but there are dope.

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>>52201203
They'll all be up on my blog, and you can download the post as a PDF, so yes, they'll be PDF-ified eventually.

>>52201091
0/10 sword design

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>>52201249
It's designed to be inserted up the bottom of unfortunate sinners, as well as being useful as a hockey stick for slapping heads.

>>52201226
ohhhh you're coins&scrolls. Thanks. I liked the weird currency forms you posted a while ago and used a few of them for my sword&planet game.

>>52200960
Fuck, that's funny. I'm stealing this idea for my own stuff.

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>>52199369
People need to post up the Liasons Dangereuses magazines from #70 through #80 so that we can get the E. Gary Gygax and Len Lakofka OFFICIAL additions to the OD&D system, including all the REAL OD&D / "OSR" spells included. Such as here.

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>>52201287
It is I, Leclerc!

Glad I could help!

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>>52201310
Honestly, these spells are OK, but they aren't really anything special. This might be heresy, but old doesn't nessesarily mean good.

>Burn Wood
>Range 6"
>This spell will cause normal wood to burst into flames. Enchanted wood will only flame 10% of the time. Thus spears, axes, bows, arrows, etc. will be useless. Unless thrown aside at once clothing also immolates. If held when the spell takes effect there is 1-6 points of damage.

Not exactly gripping stuff.

>>52201373
What about in the other 10 issues? People need to post them up. I know #75 has extremely relevant OD&D rules by Gygax himself. In 2005 it was hoarded for cleanup, then mysteriously erased when Lakofka threw a tantrum (I assume). So they're out there.

>>52182193
"Of COURSE I get called in when I have a hangover"

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>>52202129
"Oh, you think you're having a bad day?"

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Do you think if I reworked this game to lack the character building options (ie; no feats, skill, or magic specialization, just linear progression) it would be a better game?

What method do you use for generating ability scores, /osr/?

I feel like there's a certain thrill to ironman, but unless you have a like-minded group, 4d6 drop low and assign is usually going to get the best response while still preserving enough randomness to keep things interesting.

>>52202431

3d6
down the line
final destination

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>>52202344
I've read this thing before...

Modifiers: might want to have them go from 1 to 22, just because stat increases (and, more likely, drain) are a thing.

You don't list your stats or define them.

I like the "frivolous and pure luxury" bonus XP rule. You don't define how XP relates to currency/value though. How much is 1 gp worth?

You don't define AC. You /may/ want to be heretical and just rename AC to Defense.

Combat Move might be more clear as "Combat Maneuver" or "Combat Tactic" as "moving" is a separate thing. Just an idea.

"Each point of AC from armor gets you -1 to
combat saving throws." I assume that's the saving throws you get against Combat Moves, not just Saves in general, in combat?

Your HD table needs better headers. It's not clear what the numbers under the classes actually are. Is that 1HD - 1HD, 1HD -1, or 1-1HD? It also seems a little complex. Why not just give Fighters bonus HP per level and Rogues bonus HP every 2nd level or something?

The Fighter
Saves:

So by level 5, let's say, you have a Save of 7 and a Combat Move Save of 9, right?

Do you still reroll your "first" HD each time you level (keeping the result if higher)? Seems like that's likely to result in a weird bit of curve flattening for Fighters at low levels.

Feats. Are OK. You'd only ever take "Special Attack" once.

Fighting styles are good, but they kind of encourage overspecialization rather than generalization, but that might be OK.

In general, I'd advise trying to avoid Feats and Skills that do something any character could do, in theory. If you make it so that Rogues have a skill called "Disarm Trap" it means that a) nobody can disarm traps using common sense, which is the best and most fun method and b) the Rogue is always going to be the one called up to disarm traps. Imagine if you had a fighter feat called "Shove". Nobody else would be able to shove, right?

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>>52202344
>>52202518
The Rogue
What's a hazard save?

Presumably, the Hunch roll is a one-use thing. Otherwise, if I roll a 20, I'm critting /all damn day/.


"impersonate another character" should just be "impersonate someone" or "disguise yourself"

Also, is Level 1 an "ODD level" by your system?

Magic-User

Obviously not done yet, but it seems the wizard could go "Fireball - reprep for 10 minutes - Fireball - reprep for 10 minutes" which makes them... really deadly.

Honestly, check out http://goblinpunch.blogspot.ca/2016/05/the-glog.html
And for fighters and rogues
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxVHEMMjLlZ4Q1llSnJfWlB6bU0
And for wizards
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxVHEMMjLlZ4UWYzX3o1UnEtd0U

For idea thievery. They work, as homebrew hacks go. The Fighter mechanics kind of do what you want to do with the feats and things.

>>52202518
>>52202592

Hey appreciate the feedback, though I was specifically asking if removing those feat features would make the game better...

Also a lot of shilling for GP there. I like some of his homebrew and stolen some of them too, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for.

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>>52202649
I just really like his fighter feat system.

But yeah, I don't think removing the feats makes the game better, as written. I think maybe editing them slightly to make them less "only the Fighter can do X", but more "The Fighter can do X really well" would be helpful. 30 feats is way too many, but you've got... like 5? It's not a big deal.

Assume for a moment that I am insane and only like to use physical books instead of pdfs.

Assume also that I own the 1e PHB, DMG, MM.

What are the best supplements to pick up outside of that? Not adventure modules; I have plenty of those, and most of the essentials at that. I'm looking for crucial rules supplement books, to expand either my options as a DM or my players' options in ways that aren't fucking stupid.

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>>52202649
Also, not trying to be negative about your system. It's pretty decent. I'm a technical writer by trade so I'm naturally nit-picky about all sorts of nonsense.

>>52202747
>>52202877

And I wasn't trying to be overly defensive either I appreciate the feedback, and will work on the language issues at the very least.

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>>52202897
You're doing better than the engineers I work with.

Newfie engineers, if you can imagine such a thing.

They speak /a/ language, but I'll be damned if I know what it is.

>>52202787
Deities and Demigods is nice to have, but I'm a big mythology fan so I'm biased. Try to get the printing with Chthulu.
Unearthed Arcana has more character options but it's of questionable quality. Only get it if you feel starved for classes.
Be sure to get Fiend Folio, it's got some classic monsters. FF is the better book, but if you need more there's always MM2.

>>52203001

I actually do have Unearthed Arcana, I just don't like it, which is why I didn't mention it.

If it's recommended, I'll give it another look to see if I can find something worthwhile, but for the most part it seemed kind of shit.

>>52203033
Like I said, I wouldn't recommend it.
1E didn't have much character option books outside of UA and maybe Dragon Magazine articles. It wasn't until 2E when you got kits and things.
I think Oriental Adventures might have some character options but I'm unfamiliar with it.

>>52203001
Is there any real reason to get Outdoor/Dungeoneer's Survival Guides? I assume that Manual of the Planes and Legends & Lore are super unnecessary.

>>52203046

Speaking of 2e:

I'm a bit of a collector, but I find myself needing to shed some stuff. I have the entire collection of PHBR and all the DMGR books except Creative Campaigning and Of Ships & the Sea. I haven't looked through them nearly as much as I should have. Which PHBR books are worth keeping and which should I look at selling? My instinct is to say that I should at least keep Complete Fighter, Complete Thief, Complete Priest, Complete Wizard, and Complete Psionics, as well as the Campaign Sourcebook, the Castle Guide, and the Arms and Equipment Guide, but beyond that, I don't really know one way or another.

I'm PRETTY sure I should probably sell my Player's Option and DM Option books, because honestly those are dumb and I'm not going to use them. Considering selling my blackbooks too, because I have the prior editions of the PHB and DMG -- some of the last printings too, so they do have the errata.

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>>52202518
>Combat Move Save of 9
>5 base + 3 for levels 1, 3, and 5
>This makes 9

>>52203049
>Is there any real reason to get Outdoor/Dungeoneer's Survival Guides?
Most of the rules are unnecessarily crunchy bullshit, but I find the Underdark fluff from The Dungeoneer's Survival Guide to be pretty interesting.

hey guys. In my infinite autism. I have made a character sheet spreadsheet for Lotfp.

its not complete, but it calculates inventory and encumberance. Aswell as a tab for random-genning stats and starting gold. and spawns your saving rolls based on level and class.

Who here would like it, and be willing to critique it for any changes I should make or big gags in it?

>>52203275
I would

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>>52203196
There's a very good reason for that. You see, 5 plus three plus...

Oh hey, would you look at the time. Gotta go.

>>52203247
Ah. The only reason why I'm getting Out of the Abyss for 5e is for Underdark stuff, so I might look into it. PHB, DMG, MM, UA, MM2, FF, Demis, Lore, Planes, Outdoor, and Dungeoneer are basically all the official non-module books for 1e, right?

>>52203275
>>52203290
http://www.mediafire.com/file/onarp0twk197hv9/LotFP_Automated_Character_Sheet_and_Stat_generator.xlsx

here it is. Its set up to detect text in each line of the inventory. and it also counts the amount of coins being carried.

Its lacking in Skills. I am not sure how to show them. Spells aren't shown, but that cant be automated, so it will just be a blank list somewhere.

Does anyone else like 5e's method to the quadradic Wizards/linear fighters problem?

Spells don't automatically get stronger as you level, you instead simply have to prepare the spells in higher spell slots for it to count.

How does that make you feel?

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>>52203425
Just speaking generally, I like the idea of set spells. It just makes things simpler. So a fireball always does 6d6 (or whatever) instead of [level]d6. Of course, this can be a big problematic given the ramping hit points in D&D, leading to lower level spells becoming comparatively useless, but then I also support slowing the progression of hit points (going for something like the pic here), so that evens things out.

>>52203425

I think it's an answer that does help limit the power of wizards. I think the part where 5e doesn't grant bonus spells per day based on INT is a MUCH bigger part of what limits the power of wizards, because holy fucking shit 3.5 why.

As versions of d20 go, I think 5e is probably the best.

But it's still d20.

>>52203397
This great, but there are no options under "armor?'

I think thief skill should be just like spells: the person writes them himself

>>52203598
Just realized the armor problem. I cleaned up a messy portion of it and deleted the list by accident that would generate the drop down list. Will fix. it would have allowed youd to pick with "none/other, leather, chain, plate"

>>52198614

I like the way you do your spells but I feel like knock is a shitty spell no matter what because how it overtakes the thieves purpose in the party.

Or does Knock maybe open things really loud and sets off traps/alarms so maybe it's still useful to have a sneaky rogue after all?

>>52202344
>Do you think if I reworked this game to lack the character building options (ie; no feats, skill, or magic specialization, just linear progression) it would be a better game?
Character Building isn't inherently bad, in spite of what people in these threads say, you just have to design it in a way that's also compatible with other aspects of OSR philosophy

>>52203164
Book of Humanoids is actually pretty decent if you ignore all the class & level restrictions(and the poorly thought out Witch Doctor/Shaman system)

>>52199093
Bumping my own question.

>>52202344
What is the point, even theoretically, of making an alleged OSR game that has more character building elements than, say, 5e?

>>52203425
Its not clear that its a problem in OSR stuff.

>>52203164
DM Option is actually pretty good. I particularly like the high level stuff for the different classes, I find them very clever and like how they made it in, to some degree, to later editions.

Bravery and Hardiness, and their cleric analogs, are in particular really brilliant abilities, the way a fighter can potentially grunt, strain, and flex his way through delaying a poison, paralysis, or energy drain effect for a few rounds, and then gets the chance to either accept the delayed effect or immediately collapse to sleep it off. Still keeps death touch monsters scary as fuck, but beatable.

>>52204916
In my (albeit, limited) experience, the players who had it made it a point to use it every attack. They would automatically roll their deed die with the attack die and if a deed came up, they'd make some shit up to justify it.

However, the novelty did wear off after a while so they tended to come up with some standard deeds that they would repeat, which eventually turned into "if I get a deed then assume I do this thing".

The whole of DCC became a bit like that, desu. After the novelty of all the kerrrazy crits and wacky spells and zany corruption wore off, everything became a chore.

>>52204946
In B/X they are not. B/X is actually very balanced (at the cost of player options) without being really 'tame'.

If you play a game that lets you capture spellbooks (like most OSR, even B/X clones), the risk of god-wizards is higher.

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>>52205244
>The whole of DCC became a bit like that, desu. After the novelty of all the kerrrazy crits and wacky spells and zany corruption wore off, everything became a chore.
Yeah, that's basically what I'm feeling right now. I guess DCC is better suited for tournament-style games rather than long-term campaigns.

>>52204918

Giving players more freedom?

Allowing 3 classes to take the place of 6 or more?

Because nobody else has done it before?

>>52205658
I can't tell if you two are agreeing or not.

Are you saying more classes = more freedom?

>>52205658
>freedom
More classes = more options. That's not even 'good' by itself. It will slow down chargen and may cause analysis paralysis, too.
For me, having a few, solid, generic classes that players can customize/refluff IS player freedom.

>nobody else has done it before
Even if that was a valid reason for doing anything, you're probably wrong there.

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>>52203921
>Character Building isn't inherently bad

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>>52208045

So you're saying classes are bad then, space ghost?

>>52208067
Good character building
>Choose one of these classes and thats it

Bad character building
>Choose race, class, subclass, talents, feats, powers...

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>>52208067

Hey, if you want some of this, just ask, buddy!

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>tfw no group

>>52208325
>tfw no one wants to play OSR in my group

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>>52208067

You know what, I'm just gonna zap you anyway on general principle.