/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

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FIRST FOR MAGE SUPREMACY

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>>51944370
SECOND FOR MAGE SUPREMACY

>>51944370
>>51944380

You guys need your own thread. That said, no need, as when new splats and books start to roll out, there will be more even representation.

>>51944350
>Romance
In my current game a dude's backstory involved him losing his girlfriend when he proposed, she ran off and he had no reason why.
I decided another mage had seen her and thought their relationship was a blight on her potential.
So he dragged her feeling for the other guy out of her Oneiros, and chained them to himself.

Now she's devoting herself to her work, and possibly going to Awaken shortly.

And the guy wants to join the Clavicularius, so he can learn how to excise these unhelpful feelings from his mind.
Or just summon them and beat them up.

>>51944336
Glamour seems like a natural product of emotions and Sekhem is like the raw substance of like history and life of something or some shit like that.

>>51944480
>Glamour seems like a natural product of emotions
Then why can only the alien Fae, and those they've fucked up touch it?

>>51944496
You could ask the same thing about essence or plasm.

>>51944483
Thanks Anon, I really appreciate it.

I'm not gonna lie to you: I'm drunk... again.
I diablerized some random methuselah (who cares anymore?).

And you know what's the worst?
I'm thinking about Zillah.
Even when I'm drunk as fuck, I think about her.

>>51944491
>Don't do it, man. You have so much to live for.

I don't know, man.
I've lived for too long, and seen too much.

My woman is gone, my family is long dead (I even killed one of them).
And let's not forget that I invented murder itself.

I just want to diablerize more idiots.... get drunk again and again.
I might be a hero before Gehenna.

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>>51944412
>Speaks out of ass
>Doesnt bring up how no one gives a flying fresh fuck about Beast and Geist

>>51944370
Is 20th the go to buy for Mage the Ascension?

Powers remain unnerfed and the casting rules aren't Patriot Act tier?

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Was something lost in NWoD mage by pairing up the spheres? I feel like you're going to favor one arcana over the other. Why try to lump these specific schools with another?

Pic related, qt Thyrsus find a death mage

>>51944865
I have heard nothing but negative comments about M20.
Popular opinion says go with revised.

>>51944895
What did popular opinion say about Revised's revisions? Are the casting rules more straight forward?

>>51944865
>>51944895
>>51944929

Better to lace Revised with a select few tidbits of M20.

>>51944929
Maybe. People are mostly just highly vocal about how shitty M20 is, and how revised was good.

I say this having never played any of them.

>>51944895
Go with revised and if you can score a free copy of M20, lace it with tidbits of that, particularly the focus rules (Paradigm/style/instruments) and other things that you find useful.

>>51944970
>>51944954
Gonna buy 1 book anons. This isn't a college book which is a duplicate of the previous edition with one new paragraph that I'm after.

>>51944962

Why is M20 so disliked? Let me guess, it in some way reigns in Mages powerwise? After all, it's going to be a shared setting going forwards, and there is only so much magewank they can allow.

>>51945061
>it in some way reigns in Mages powerwise?

lolno

It actually gives us far more leeway when discarding instruments.

>>51944886
I was always a fan of the 360' alternative path creation, from the Chroniclers guide I think.

Dual paths have the benefit of being thematically focused with in-setting connections

>>51944886
To help people get a grasp on the symbolic nature of the Magic in the setting, and provide some internal consistency to what would otherwise be an absolute clusterfuck of mystic preferences.

It gives people a concept to adhere, deviate, or attempt to reject, while still orientating themselves with regards to it.

Also you're not always going to favor one over the other.
2 of the most avid players in my current group are mostly just increasing their two Ruling Arcana, and seeking to focus on them equally.
The others? I have no clue what they're doing.

>>51945133
I just started the chronicle with 25 Mage Paths: one Subtle, one Gross and one Inferior. The first mage already had the Awakening in the Realm of Mind and Time, where he had to kill his own alternate evil self two times in three different parallel timelines to prevent his own death. Shit was neat.

>>51945338
I do enjoy a good alternate self battle. I indulged all the players in the during a campaign of Eclipse Phase, but each players method of resolution was designed to test their character
Killed other self - Conquered yourself
Co-existed - Became at peace with yourself
Merged - Became one with yourself

>>51945377
It wasn't battle as much as exploration of self. He looked into his own alternate life, and, by finding the point of divergence, understood how much the Mind is plaything of Time. Killing was just rejecting that other him. It was supposed to be lesson about illusion of self. It didn't went as good as I wanted it to be, but player liked it and said it was good beginning of a story.

>>51945444
sounds like a perfectly fine awakening

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>>51945163
>Who wouldn't blood bond their waifu? Slavish devotion is damn sexy

It wasn't real, Anon.
Also please remember that vampires don't have sex.
We just... were.

That's when the crippling depression began.
She was perfect, my children were perfect, Enoch was perfect...
But the murder of Abel still haunted me.

Being in a blood bonded relationship won't take away the fact that God punished me.
Me and my family literally knew God.
Can you understand that? Knowing God!
And knowing that he cursed you...
Even the possibility of Golconda was not enough.

Anyway: no, blood bond is not cool.
For my kind it is just pretense. Self-delusion.

Also she's fucking dead.
Whatever. I need another drink.

>>51945014
Buy revised.

Download M20 from the mega.

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>>51945061
>Why is M20 so disliked?
Here, have a sample.

>>51945507
Caine just kill yourself bro. Go find a nice mage and get them to end it for you.

>>51945507
Cain! My brother! All has been forgiven by our wondrous lord god he has forgiven you and so have i!

Not really he is still dead you still did it and life still sucks love you bb

Father's
Thrusting
Cock

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>>51945518
But what if God really do have a plan?
What if it's not that easy?

I already tried to be an hero twice.
One time I asked a mage to use all of his mighty (5+, I don't know) Spheres to blow me out of existence.

Unfortunately the spell backfired and he just disappeared in a big aetheric fireball.

Next time I tried to kill myself and the curse literally nullified the effects.
I think it just made the mark more powerful.

So: any ideas?
Would this
>I remove your curse using Entropy 4, Life 4, Matter 4, Prime 6
>I also take away your Vampirism, no more Disciplines for you, friend!

or this really work?
>Archmages can remove God-driven curses/blessings using Prime 6.

What if these spells would simply backfire, just like we tried first time?

>>51945540
GOD DAMN IT, ANON!
It's not funny!
Stop it!

>>51945578

Yes. It takes Prime 6 to remove Vampirism and curses / blessings derives from God.
There are other ways, but this is the most absolute.

>>51945617
But can it nullify the mark itself?
I mean God put it there to counter any kind of harm... or magic.

>>51945627

God put it there to ward off damage done to Caine, nothing more than that. Caine isn't supposed to die.

Targeting the curse / blessing is different from targeting Caine.

>>51945627
>But can it nullify the mark itself?

Not hard to do with Archmagick.

>>51945627
All level 10 powers of the disciplines, and presumably Caine has level 10 in ALL the disciplines, is basically a cop-out ability called Plot Device. http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Plot_Device

Caine ain't being saved. He's immune to Sphere magic.

>>51945668
10 dot Spheres are also plot-device
Archmages are immune to anything Caine can dish out.

9 dot Spheres also have better feats than plot-device 10 dot Disciplines.

Plot device + feats > Plot device + no feats

>>51944886
I think the game as it is is fine, but the fact that Mages don't get to choose where the bulk of their power lies bothers me. Even in the whole "make up whatever Path/Realm you want" thing, it's not something the character chooses. Also the Paths and Realms players make up tend to be... not good.

So I'm working on a way to play that lets characters choose whatever they want to specialize in. No Paths. All Arcana are common until you pick a Legacy. Greater emphasis on Legacies then, in fluff and crunch.

Pseudo-Ruling Arcana can be chosen by making Arcana tools (replacements for Path tools) that allow you to cast spells of the associated Arcana for no Mana when you use them, unless you Reach. Paradox can degrade and eventually break the tools. You also can't have more than two attuned to your aura at a time.

The logic here is to allow more player AND character freedom, if that makes sense. The character will be largely defined by their Legacy, which they choose.

>>51945668
>Caine ain't being saved

Yeah, because once you're targeted by an Archmage, you're fucking finished.

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>>51945650
>God put it there to ward off damage done to Caine, nothing more than that. Caine isn't supposed to die.
>Targeting the curse / blessing is different from targeting Caine.

Holy shit!
You must be right!

Ok, here's the thing: I'm a bit afraid that undoing the curse might upset God.
Should I do it or not? Any advice?

Also what if it would fuck up Gehenna itself?
I mean I have no idea what would happen anyway.
I didn't make up the prophecy (I heard about it by some Nosferatu when I visited Rome after the fall of Carthage).

So let's say I ask an archmage to "turn off" the curse.
Would that affect the coming of Gehenna?
I don't even care if I live or die, but... you know... God already fucked my life up once - I don't want to make things worse.

>>51945694
The Caine vs Archmage argument always comes down to this.

>Archmage vs Caine
>Archmage wins
>God is pisssst
>God vs Archmage
>Outcome undetermined

Unless the actual authors themselves step down, we have no way of knowing who'd win.

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>>51945515
>Why is M20 so disliked?

Don't forget the culinary demands in M20.

>>51945694
Do it man.

What have you got to lose?

Is God gonna DOUBLE curse you?

>>51945694
>Would that affect the coming of Gehenna?
The Antedeluvians stir whenever one of their children is killed (which is why killing thin-bloods en masse is a terrible idea). I think they might pay even more attention if their daddy dies. You might just kickstart everything.

Why not use your super vampire powers to go explore space, and find other planets and stuff?

You guys are making God seem really fucking tsundere.

>"I-It's not like I like Caine or anything, I just don't want that filthy wizard touching him!"

Jesus Christ you idiots have this debate every thread. The mods should start banning the mage v.s. vampire wank-off.

>>51945728
>Don't make me smite you, b-baka!

Thank fuck for filters, this faggot RPing as /r9Caine/ is fucking cringeworthy.

>>51945515

That doesn't hurt nearly so bad as that one side-panel about pronouns in oWoD. Does it get worse, or is that it? Because that i can just shrug and rest assured my group isn't made up of pussy ass bitches.

>>51944473
>Mana is alien, being Supernal in origin

Wut?

>>51945706
Dude, I have nothing against mages.
Seriously!

I knew this hot witch once - let's just say she was all over me.
She even taught me how to use Disciplines.

Unfortunately I found out she was the first wife of my dad - I mean, can you believe this shit?!
Me and my dad slept with the same woman!
I might be the first murderer but hey... I still have my dignity.

So yeah, long story short - mages are ok.

>>51945725
>Is God gonna DOUBLE curse you?

You do realize we're talking about the guy who punishes people for sins he already knows about, right?

>>51945726
>I think they might pay even more attention if their daddy dies. You might just kickstart everything.

I fucking hate my grandchildren.
I mean what the fuck is their problem?

>Why not use your super vampire powers to go explore space, and find other planets and stuff?

The so-called Umbra is a fucked up place.
I already got lost three times there - not that shit again.

>>51945728
I wish someone would like me...

>>51945763
>I knew this hot witch once

A good few players theorize that Lilith is a primordial Mage. Probably an ancient Verbena.

>>51945751
>/r9Caine/

If you don't like it, don't give it a new meme a true name then! That is amazing.

>>51945757
>Mana is the palpable, measurable bleed of the Supernal into the material.

2e, p.86

>>51945751
>/r9Caine/
That is brilliant.

I know what the next edition of the general should be called.

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So, all this magewanking has got me curious. I've never ahd a Mage player in my games before, and a friend has asked to be a newly awaken one (oWoD). I've given him the okay, as really, I don't mind if he is the powerhouse of the group, nor does anyone else.

How fast will he gain power though? I mean, Archmage is basically impossible to get to in a typical year-long game right? Assuming one session a week for a year, with average experience gain (I'm going to be running it a bit like the Supernatural formula; each big event of the metaplot, starting with Chicago by Night, will be split up with monster of the week events rolled up from the book we are on), roughly where might he end up power-wise?

I'm considering having an Earthbound be his nemesis, as theoretically it could keep up or even overpower him for a long time. Right?

>>51945804

The issue isn't that Mana is supernal in origin, it's that it's allegedly "alien," and thus requires Weaving to channel rather than Ruling as for essence.

>>51945822
Becoming an Archmage is a lifetime goal for most mages, and even then a lot of them fail at the last hurdle and are retconned from existence. And even then a lot of mages dont take the risk of becoming one because something is keeping them tied to earth.

Unless he's actively chasing it I dont think you need to worry.

>>51945822
>How fast will he gain power though?

This really depends, considering you're using oWoD. Lesser Mages are relatively weak while greater Mages are just simply monstrous.
It entirely depends on your Paradigm and Focus, what you use for Instruments/Foci, whatnot.

If you abuse Wonders, Wards and hung/held spells, you will win most white-room encounters if sufficiently prepared beforehand.

Don't use Archmages.

>>51945841

Yeah, i figured as much, but just wanted to make sure. I'd still appreciate some anecdotes of how peoples Mage characters managed to progress over relatively long games, from beginner to wherever they ended up. It will give me a sense of where I take the plot.

>I totally don't plan of one of the players gaining a relic weapon, long before any of them can examine it properly, that is actually the requiery of an lesser Earthbound. As the legend of the weapon grows, so does the power of the Earthbound, as it takes in that sweet sweet 'faith'.

>>51945775
>A good few players theorize that Lilith is a primordial Mage. Probably an ancient Verbena.

Well, it's entirely possible.
She had this thing for blood, that's for sure.

Also I'm sure there was at least another guy before me (after she left Adam, I mean).
I don't want to start a gossip, but she mentioned having sex with gods and angels, too.
Then, a few hundred years later, I heard some rumors about Lilith being an ex of both God AND Lucifer.

Was Lilith an archmage? Possible.
Was she a wench? 100% sure.

>>51945675
This is retared guys, you're arguing who is the more powerful of two people who literally has whatever power is required at any given time.

>>51945864
>abuse
>wonders, wards and hung/held spells

I highly suggest you don't allow these things. Granting Mages D&D wizard status will enable them to curbstomp everyone else in combat.

>>51945836
It's not "allegedly" alien. It is alien. Period.

You can't just say "the issue isn't that Mana is supernal in origin" and then turn around and say that actually is the issue. In the same sentence, no less.

Mana is from the Supernal. The Supernal is not a part of the Fallen world. Ergo, it's alien. Foreign. From across the street. However you want to say it. So it can't be as naturally compared as a native substance like Essence.

I realize I'm essentially houseruling here, but the logic is sound.

>>51945885
How the fuck you can disallow them if Time/Fate 2 allow you do it RAW, and Ward is literally Space spell?

>>51945903
They're talking about Ascension.

>>51945911
>They're talking about Ascension.

Does CofD have its own Caine, by the way?
I'm just curious, that's all.

>>51945754

You don't see the issue? If that shit is even included, the same shit will be infused in the writing, since it's the same mind.

>>51945902
The Supernal Realms isn't some place you can to go. It is not a place. It's the code representation of all things.

Mana is far more than just alien in that sense.

>>51945928
Yes and he's way better than you. God still loves him for example.

>>51945928
No, all the different clans have different origin myths.

I don't like them as much.

>>51945928

The origin of the Kindred in CofD is entirely unknown and always theorized. No Antediluvians are in the setting, and barely any Methuselahs show up at all.

I'm a magefag, but I still miss (and appreciate) the likes of Baba Yaga and Ur-Shulgi.

>>51945943
There is no Caine in Requiem.

>>51945931
Yeah, I preferred it when it was a place. It is still place in my games, but only because humans are used to 3D space and can't comprehend the information in any other way.

>>51945931
Yeah, I know.

But they're still separate from the Fallen world.

>>51945961
Shut up I'm bullying Caine.

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>>51945943
>Yes and he's way better than you. God still loves him for example.

I have these mixed feelings right now.

>>51945975
Oh, sorry.

Continue.

>>51945962
I spin it as the Supernal Realms being the symbolic representations of the code or whatever. Those symbolic representations take the form of places.

>>51945969
>they're still separate from the Fallen world

They always were separate, but they're far more connected than anything else.

>>51945931

You can totally go to the supernam in nWoD 1e.

>>51945977
Don't fall for it Caine.

He's just trying to bully you.

>>51945995
That works too. People aren't machines; we can understand code, but we don't see the world in code.

>>51945996
Not as connected as the Shadow.

Also they're super separate now, what with the Abyss and the Lie and all that.

The Fallen world being cut off from the Supernal is something that the fluff hammers home.

>>51946001
Not in 2e.

Things have changed, Anon.

>DaveB supremacy

>>51946015
>Not as connected as the Shadow

Debateable, considering the Supernal has far more influence over the Fallen. The Shadow permeates it more heavily, I can admit that much. Spirits are everywhere, but symbols define everything.

>>51946016

Why can't we just ignore 2e and talk about oWoD and 1e?

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>>51945975
>Shut up I'm bullying Caine.

Literally why?
God bullies me enough, I don't need more pain.

>>51946004
>Don't fall for it Caine.
>He's just trying to bully you.

Ok, sure.

Here's a question: let's say I want to make Gehenna happen, just for the shits and giggles (why not, right?).

How should things happen?
Which Antediluvians should get awakened and or / punished?

The Giovanni one seems to be pretty dangerous - he's collecting souls and it bothers me.
The Tremere one is slowly becoming a worm-like... thing. It's nasty.
Also he stole the blood, which is an unspeakable crime.
Nosferatu is a dick. He must be whacked.

Anyway - my proposition is, basically: let's plan the Gehenna, right here, right now!
Who should live, who should die?

>>51946045

I gladly enjoy talking about both, it's just oWoDfags and nWoDfags are constantly at each other's throats.

>>51946056

But there's three fags now, oWoD-fags, nWoD-fags and CofD-fags (I guess, does anyone really like the newer stuff?).

>>51946094
There'll be four soon with the one world of darkness stuff coming up.

...I'm starting to appreciate shadowrun a lot more.

>>51945931
The core said imperial mysteries still transfers over. So defacto you can in fact go to the supernal realms.

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>>51946056

Lets be honest, after the new interactive stories, it's looking like both sides lost unless something really amazing happens.

CofD got renamed to 'not really World of Darkness', the harshest thing they could do short of scrapping it it, considering it was to be the successor. It's doomed to be the (if only slightly) less popular younger brother.

(One) World of Darkness, however, looks like it's cynical and social-issue focused approach to storytelling will certainly please all that millions of SJWs and snowflakes, with such wonderful character concepts as 'trans pornstar who kill conservatives' and 'tatood spic thug who slaughters cops with no reppercussions'. Masquerade? What fucking Masquerade, you fucking out of date fossil! Get with the times, shitlord.

...excuse me, I think I'll just go play through Bloodlines and then fall asleep weeping into my copy of (Revised) Vampire.

>>51946035
The Shadow is explicitly defined as part of the Fallen world. The Supernal is not. The Supernal is also kept apart from the Fallen world, with the Lie and the Abyss. Forming a connection with the Supernal despite that is literally the whole point of the Watchtowers and modern Awakenings.

Yeah, symbols are important, and traces of the Supernal can be found in the Fallen world, but that's not the same thing as being literally connected to it as a natural part.

Okay, guys, how can one dedicated Spirit/Space master ruin up life of entire consilium from her mountain fortress?

>>51946173
Manipulate the Spirits with sympathetic magic.

>>51946056
I do depending on the line because I like masquerade and it's plot and find it hard to like requiem but I hate ascension and love awakening. Which is the problem, most people like one or the other.

>>51946149
I'm not holding out any hope. Some oWoDfags are talking about Dracula like he's the second coming, but honestly nothing I have read about his upcoming work bodes well.

Is it just me or do half the references to ascension in nwod refer to the threshold seeking and not to the final ascension beyond archmastery?

>>51946173
>how can one dedicated Spirit/Space master ruin up life of entire consilium from her mountain fortress?

So, you're running a chronicle of the Mages from Skull Mountain?

Please tell me it's not basically a superhero campaign.

>>51945687

The character does choose their path. Subconsciously.

>>51946142
You need to pass the Threshold and form a Lustrum to enter the Supernal Realms as a mortal.
There is no other way.

>>51946152
That's not what I'm debating here. I'm mentioning the fact that the Supernal has far more sway over the Fallen compared to the Shadow.
An example; If an obsessive Seeker were to use and seal 5 dot Omen to eradicate the symbol of "Love", then the very concept of the emotion is gone forever. Spirits of Love would cease to exist, even when the Shadow is involved.

>>51946205
>So, you're running a chronicle of the Mages from Skull Mountain
Don't know that you are talking about.

>Please tell me it's not basically a superhero campaign.
Define superhero campaign?

>>51946195
The Threshold Seeking is like a second Awakening.
Your rite of passage for Archmastery.

Ascension is what comes after.
Not that you need to be an Archmaster to ascend.

>>51944350

Now that's a topic I can discuss. Has anyone actually had a pc with Path of Night? How did that go? Did he ever have high levels in it? From what I'm seeing, it's not possible to be in a party and have Path of Night higher than 5 because of the "I will not ask for help from others" sin

>>51946234
>Define superhero campaign?

If you're requesting a definition, the answer is almost certainly, "yes." you're running a superhero campaign.

>>51946094

I leave for a few months and now all the 2e dicksucking is over and everyone hates 2e? What happened? Everyone was saying that 2e was the best thing to happen in WoD right around the time when Mage came out.

>>51945687
The Watchtowers apparently have a particular bias towards certain individuals based on corresponding personalities.

I don't think a Mage is going to displeased with his/her Path, as it will more than likely be the one that relates to you the most.

You're thinking about this from an OOC perspective.

>>51946241

I know, but I mean, in the older stuff, pre-IM, it feels like the word ascension is thrown around a lot, sometimes it feels like its referring to non-archmasters.

>Not that you need to be an Archmaster to ascend.

How?

>>51946211
That doesn't really change anything.

>>51946271
>How?

Various ways. I am particular to the Legacy route.

>>51946256
The core people play as (vampire, werewolf, mage) became better than what they were. While lines people liked but never played (changeling, prometheans) got mangled.

>>51946274

How so? Even if they don't know they chose their path, they still did. It's not completely random and the characters aren't necessarily being manipulated by the Oracles.

>>51946279

I thought the implication was that archmasters can max out their legacy rather than try their luck at omens, not just regular mages. Same with the old god ascension stuff.

>>51946219
>That's not what I'm debating here
Then why did you say that the Shadow being more connected was debatable?

I don't care about the influence or sway. The whole point of this was to justify the relative ease of channeling Essence compared to Mana.

>>51946256
Awakening 2e was the best thing to ever happen.

>DaveB supremacy

>>51946250
Whatever you say, buddy.

>>51946302
>vampire
>better than human

>>51946312
It's debatable due to the fact that the Supernal is the literal code for all-creation, or at least most of it.

Abyss or not, it still determines a whole lot with its symbolic connections.

>>51946049
Saulot needs to die. Like, really, really needs to die.

Look, we both know about Golconda: maybe it's real, maybe it's not, but Saulot never achieved it: he's just playing the long-con and pretending to be a cool dude, when in reality he planned for his childer to get eaten by the Tremere, and he's also responsible for the Baali fuckwits. The guy needs to die; he's talkin' the talk, but not walkin' the walk.

Ennoia can live: like the rest of the non-crazy Gangrel, she's just chillin' in the background and not acting like a total dick.

Tzimisce is... look, just go tell him/her/it that it's okay to be whatever... the fuck it wants to be. It's the 21st century, people are slowly stopping when it comes to assuming gender. Just let him/her/it live out his/her/its dream of being the world's best plastic surgeon.

The Ravnos Antedeluvian is a dick. Deserves death, and good riddance.

Malkav is insane. But the GOOD kind of insane. He can live, so long as he keeps the fishies far, FAR away.

Haqim... well, who cares about Haqim?

Set has to go. I mean it, Caine: this fucknugget has to go. He has to go NOW. He has to go YESTERDAY.

>>51946327
2e vampires are way stronger than humans or 1e ones fucking nightmare and majesty are bullshit. They also have easy agg.

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>>51946334

I have a secret crush on the Tzimisce Antediluvian.

>>51946302

I completely disagree. The new stuff is bad across the board, and I'll be sticking with oWoD and 1e.

>>51946343

I don't think we're talking about power level here. God Machine Mortals are actually really fun. Demon is good too.

If people are upset about Promethean, well, it doesn't matter because they've never even played 1e once. Changeling doesn't look that bad from what I've seen.

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first for qt virgin Thyrsus who recently became an Archmaster. She married a High Rank Spirit

>>51946366
It's not and 1e's mechanics were shit. I don't give a shit about sjws don't use that shit but nlood and smoke was a fucking level above requiem too bad secret of the covenants had shit writing. That doesn't change what a fucking disaster the previous line and masquerade are. I love masquerade it's fucking godawful to play though.

>>51946310
>How so?
Because it's not an active choice, which is what I really want. Also, it still doesn't deal with the other issue I have that I should have brought up, which are the Arcana pairings. I like them, they're thematic and they make sense.

But what if you want Matter without Death? What if you want Forces without Prime? Worse, what if you want Death and Spirit, but don't want to be a Thyrsus and don't want to feel like you should invest in Life for the free spells, even though it doesn't really fit your character? You could make up your own Realm and Path, as the book suggests, but like I already said, I don't like doing that.

>>51946431
You can take a legacy that gives you a third ruling though.

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>>51946376
>Archmaster
>married a High Rank Spirit
Do you marry your dogs?

>>51946444
They do in Canada.

>>51946431
There is some option in Chronicler's Guide, for example "Warlock of Arcadia", which allow you to do exactly that.

>>51945507
>>51945555
>>51945578
What is this new level of faggotry

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>>51946444
Spirit 9 can reliably enslave Luna, a rank 8 spirit.

The perfect waifu, if you ask me.

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>>51946457

Father's thrusting cock

>>51946343
They're stronger, sure. But they lead a way more fucked existence.

If given a choice, I would never become a WoD or even a CofD vampire. Doomed to an eternal night, outliving all your friends and family, eventually losing yourself, not being able to drink good drinks or eat food, struggling to form even halfway decent relationships, having sex knocked down a few pegs, etc.

I mean it has its perks, yeah. Drinking blood is a supreme enjoyment, and the power is cool. Never aging has its appeals as well.

Still, there's a reason why vampirism is referred to as a fucking curse.

>>51946461
Yeah, and after that Helios is going to tear you a new one. Not even talking about Exarchs and Siddhas, who are going to tear your Seeker ass to shreds.

Vampires stronger than humans?

*cough* mages *cough* *cough* lawn chairs *cough*

>>51946461

She fucks dogs dude.

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what splay can I get away with wearing this?

>>51946439
You'd still be tied to an Arcanum you don't want. Whether it's Life or Matter is irrelevant.

>>51946454
I don't exactly remember that one, but I do remember reading it and not liking it.

What is it, again?

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>>51946483
>Implying the Archmaster hasn't already turned Helios into his personal gimp bitch boy

>Implying the Exarchs don't join in occasionally

>>51946487
Mage aren't humans, you filthy pleb.

>>51946332
You can't just handwave the Abyss like it isn't there. The fact remains that the Shadow is right next door and easily accessible, while the Supernal is not. The Supernal might have a lot of influence, but that isn't the same thing as being connected.

>>51946428

There is zero issues with the rules of nWoD 1e, what's the problem?

>>51946532

I bet you think that your opinion matters.

>>51946511
It's not a big deal. Some people like their rulings others look to different ones. I'm fine with it because minmaxing rulings just dumb. I'm not a fan of that shit.

Why is it that Archmages call the Fallen world, the Phenomenal World?

>>51946508

Mage and Changeling.

>>51946461
So does that makes you the stepdad of all werewolves? Christmas is going to be a mess

>>51946548
They're just lame half the time werewolves and changelings were narely better than humans some times. Unless you gimmicked into a broken ass build. It just didn't feel that interesting or useful. I'm not talking about wanting them to be mages but most of the powers just blew or weren't written well. Then we has several mechanics that just sucked and an xp system that over encouraged being unnecessarily optimized because if you wanted something pregen then fill what you lack was a better plan.

>>51946569

Because they know that the world is not truly fallen and that all other dimensions exist to shape it.

Is it me or are the developers of Mage 2e guilty of one truism in playing and interpreting it.

>>51946553
It isn't a big deal. I don't have any problem playing the game as it is. I just want to explore a different alternative that allows for more character concepts without coloring outside the lines, so to speak.

>mage supremacy

>>51946602
I think you can have a lot of different character concepts. Paths aren't meant to pigeonhole you it's just a frame of reference. And legacies help expand on character concept.

Just when does a character get a Legacy? It seems like a pain to make up a Legacy in Character Creation

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I'm new to this general, so could someone please tell me who you're referring to when you say Dracula? I assume that's someone who's part of White Wolf?

>>51946669
Martin Elricsson.

The man who will ruin everything.

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>>51946334
>Saulot needs to die. Like, really, really needs to die.

Tremere diablerized him.

>Ennoia can live: like the rest of the non-crazy Gangrel, she's just chillin' in the background and not acting like a total dick.

She fused with the earth.
I think she's kinda crazy... y'know.
She's like an underground NEET.

>Tzimisce is... look, just go tell him/her/it that it's okay to be whatever... the fuck it wants to be

Problem is: he wants to devour all life, to become the ultimate lifeforme.
I think he's too dangerous.

>The Ravnos Antedeluvian is a dick. Deserves death, and good riddance.

He's already dead.

>Malkav is insane. But the GOOD kind of insane. He can live, so long as he keeps the fishies far, FAR away.

I hate him.
He asked stupid questions, especially about Abel.
Now he's gone. I have no idea where he is.
Some says he possessed a group of little girls...
Others say he's a cab driver somewhere in the US, pretending to be... well, me!

Who knows, who cares.
He must die.

>Haqim... well, who cares about Haqim?

Haqim is a nerd, but a smart one.
He'll be my judge.

>Set has to go. I mean it, Caine: this fucknugget has to go. He has to go NOW. He has to go YESTERDAY.

Funny thing is: I never met this Set guy.
I think he doesn't even exist... never did.
Setites might be a bloodline, pretending to be edgy and unique.

How about the True Black Hand?
Shall I tell them everything?

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>>51946686

>one Google search later

Did they really just take a photo of him and photoshop the background in for the Tzimisce/Dracula in-game?

>>51946622
I know. I made the same argument you're making to a guy who genuinely hated the Paths. This is more of just an alternative experience homebrew thing that puts more of an emphasis on choices and Legacies.

>>51946710
Sure as fuck looks like it.

>>51946710
They did.

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>>51944380
>>51944370
keep telling yourselves that, cupcakes

>>51946925

>chihuahua will delusions of grandeur

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>>51946950
lust for the knot among mages is SO powerful that you can't even SPELL. and I'm supposed to be the delusional one here?

>>51947032
You're delusional if you think that's a good piece of art you just posted.

World of Darkness: The Documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UMf8SgSH5A

Is this already known?

>>51947032
>you can't even SPELL

>stupid auto-correct serves the Lie

>>51946691
>Tremere diablerized him.

Yeah, and Saulot took over control of Tremere's body. Diablerie isn't always successful, boi.

In fact, the bigger the generational gap between the diablerist and the victim, the higher the chance of something going horribly, horribly wrong.

Saulot's soul now inhabits Tremere's body, while Tremere's soul fled to the body of his childe, Goratrix.

In other words, Saulot still lives. You need to rectify that, because the Tremere are the biggest fuck-ups when it comes to wiping out Saulot and the Salubri.

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>>51947254

Yeah, someone posted it in the last general, but not a lot of people give a shit about things like these.

>>51945578

>removing vampirism
changeling magic, prime 6, life 6 or 8+ mytherceria is the way to go. (I think the easiest way is 5 dots in naming magic)

> vampiric disciplines
Lilith had disciplines, (and still has them, if you trust verbenas) while being human.

>>51947295
So Tremere is now the head of the hated antitribu? Good, the bastard deserves it.

>>51947295
I see.

But if Tremere is still alive, he needs punishment.

Also I heard rumors about Saulot NOT being the sire of the Baali.
Who was it, then? Hm?
Cappadocius, maybe?

>>51947572
>changeling magic, prime 6, life 6 or 8+ mytherceria is the way to go. (I think the easiest way is 5 dots in naming magic)

I changed my mind, but thanks for the info anyway!

>Lilith had disciplines, (and still has them, if you trust verbenas) while being human.

Fun fact: Lilith also had bad temper, and crazy ideas about fidelity, monogamy and raising children.
Let's just say I still have to pay child support.

>>51947800
>Let's just say I still have to pay child support.
So... you were cucked by the God AND Lilith? Man you got it hard.

>>51947947
Why do you think I'm browsing /r9k/ and being a follower of MGTOW in the 21st century?

AWALT = All Witches Are Like That.

>mageposting
>fedoraposting
>yiffposting
>caineposting

Clearly it's time for these generals to die.

>>51948145
>fedoraposting
Where?

>>51946508
>Ishtar
>Big thing about going to the Underworld
Geist, obviously

>>51948145
I want thinbloods to leave!

>>51948300
ugh could you NOT be such a generationist

Wasn't there supposed to be a pdf of the Dark Eras companion?

Did I miss the full release of that?

>>51944865
Paradox has been nerfed into the fucking floor, so if you play M20 expect your players to be nuking city blocks unless you use the Revised rules.
>Only 1 point of Paradox on any successful Vulgar Effect.
>Can literally shit buildings down all of the day

How Foci work is poorly explained, as usual, and M20 has pretty much no example rotes in it (But they did release a book that was just solid examples at least).

>>51947277
http://vocaroo.com/i/s08e9os2pFL6

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>>51946444
>She wouldn't marry her baka inu

>>51948518
>ugh could you NOT be such a generationist
>generation

I don't even have one, childe.

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>>51946457

>>51949412
What is this from?

>>51949455
Mage 20.

>>51949460
Amazing

>>51949412
is the character a girl?

>>51946476
>why vampirism is referred to as a fucking curse.
Because it cures all chronic disease for the low low cost of the downsides? I'll take it.

>>51949963
Vampirism as a curse has just become less and less meaningful as the game progressed.
At this point the only downside is "Occasionally I have to drink blood instead of eat food".

>>51949993
>"Occasionally I have to drink blood instead of eat food".
I already hate eating food. It really seems like a sweet deal till you wake up in a pile of your dead eaten friends.

>>51950070
Eat better food, anon. Eating should be a joy, not a struggle. Move away from cheap and quick and you will not regret it.

Which book has the more information about the Nephandi ? The old book of madness ?

>>51950438
>Eating should be a joy, not a struggle.
Are you American by any chance? Food is a body-fuel. Sure, you should choose a quality fuel, but by a measure of efficiency, not for the joy of it.

>>51949993
>At this point the only downside is "Occasionally I have to drink blood instead of eat food".
Is that right? No struggling against the Beast? You can walk in the daytime? You don't have to worry about Hunters? You don't have to worry about other vampires? You can maintain relationships easily? You don't have to worry about losing your sense of self? You don't wind up trapped in political machinations as a pawn?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, you're probably a really boring vampire player.

>>51950438
Its the diabetes that ruins it. You try enjoying food when you have to stab your self with a needle every time.
>TFW you really wish the Technocracy would hurry up with the public stem cell release.

>>51950492
>You don't have to worry about losing your sense of self?
Is this not a problem for normal people?

>>51950488
>Enjoying food is an America quality
>Food should just be fuel
Are you a robot, by any chance?

>>51950552
Not as pronounced. Sure some people might wonder who they really are as opposed to how they see themselves, but for immortal beings with monsters inside them I imagine it's a bigger problem.

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>>51950492
>You don't have to worry about losing your sense of self?
Wait, this sounds familiar

>>51947254

It'd be a pretty neat idea and documentary to watch if it wasn't absolutely going to be White Wolf fellating itself. I'd love the tabletop equivalent of Ken Burns doing a documentary adaptation of Designers and Dragons, but this certainly won't be it.

>>51951861
If it doesn't at least mention how faggy LARPers can be I'll be disappoint.

>>51945754
It's horribly laid out, needed info that was included in all previous editions (Such as common sphere effects) has been left out, there's sexual assault in the intro story like a page in, Paradox has been nerfed into the ground and that's like nerfing humanity in Vampire, there will be rules that suddenly stop in favor of 20 pages of author tract in a 700 page book, EVERYBODY DOES YOGA...

Get Revised. You'll have better rules with less bloat.

>>51945061
HAHAHA! No. It completely stripped and genericised the game while deranging one of the key mechanical aspects of the game.

>>51947800
So Caine straight up, DO you ever wonder about your genetic family? Like Come on we know you had a second bro Seth. He's got to have some family still hanging around. I'm an Uncle and I love it, Got me through some shitty times in my life. The love lost still hurts, but it's not soul crushing anymore

>>51947254
NEEEEEEEEEEERRRDDDSSSSSS

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>51946149
>...excuse me, I think I'll just go play through Bloodlines and then fall asleep weeping into my copy of (Revised) Vampire
We are all gathered here today to mourn. It's a sadness to lose someone, and even greater due to illness. We all saw the SJW cancer, but did not speak. and his binge dieting of gonzo only made it worse. But I will choose to remember the healthy and happy times. The words that come to me in these times 'A beast I am least a beast I become.'

>>51952452
You could also just use awakening mechanics and alter it to your needs. Most of it can honestly just be retooled for a more streamlined admittedly weaker ascension game.

>>51952862
No. Too gamey.

>>51946691
>I hate him.
>He asked stupid questions, especially about Abel.
Did he really ask stupid question or just questions you weren't comfortable answering? You mentioned your brother again. are you sure that wasn't clouding your judgement at the time?

>>51946454
it was the circle of degrees (i.e. 360 options)

>mage supremacy

Summoners makes a big deal out of Goetia and how dangerous they are to a summoner, how their very nature as being of thought can even go so far as to pollute your own mind with foreign thoughts and perspeectives, effectively starting to danage who you are.

How does this translate into game terms?
Use of Influences?
Certain Numina like Implant Mission and Aggressive Meme?

>>51944519
Hey Caine, I'm kinda late to the party, but I'll help you out man. I like to chill, barbeque, have a few brews. Or you could go run around with Beckett, he's pretty chill.

>>51946669
Martin Ericsson, one of the head honchos of nuWW. We call him Dracula because he was the physical model for Dracula in V20.

>>51946710
Yeah. All of the V20 art was physreps (I know at least four of them from LARPing), and then art photoshopped in.

>>51953692
Man, Tim Bradstreet has really gotten lazy.

>>51947334
Oh look, Martin/Dracula!

>>51947254
>Another project with no real release date
Why is everything WoD this way lately.

>>51953703
I don't get the 'Bradstreet' angle. That was a huge draw for the deluxe new Mind's Eye Theatre, was the 'Bradstreet art' that people waited months and months for while he was on fucking suicide watch, and it's more people on backgrounds.

>>51946548
Fifty social skills with unclear/no functionality, life before Sanctity of Merits, scaling XP costs on fucking everything because +1 to Athletics is totally 15xp, "I took a multiattack merit," failing to live a good Christian life drives you literally insane...

2E did a lot of really awesome things, like the investigation system and Blood & Smoke, but don't overlook the basic system fixes. There was some stuff that was definitely frustrating even before I knew it could be better. They didn't fix everything - Animal Ken and Computers are still distinct skills, Politics and Streetwise still aren't the same fucking thing, the God-Machine went from a delightfully weird little easter egg to a distressingly full-featured yet somehow still undefined line-centering entity, and for some reason the social influence system includes a "fuck it we'll do it live" option that is generally always easier and more effective than actually using it, but for the most part it's just better at everything. It feels good to play.

>>51947051
Something something Jay Naylor?

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Anybody ever run an oWoD Sabbat game?

Having read the Guide to the Sabbat, I find I like them better than the Anarchs or Camarilla, especially given the greater clan variety and the Paths of Enlightenment.

I'm planning on having the players be newly Embraced Shovelheads, thrown against a Camarilla Elder to distract him in the last stages of a Crusade, lots of backup, and they make multiple characters beforehand for when some inevitably die. They play one of the survivors, who are initiated as True Sabbat.

Also haven't run (but know a good bit about) oWoD, so any general suggestions would also be helpful.

>>51945877
Dislike it all you want.
High-Arete Archmages shit on Caine entirely.

The Prime 6 Rote is just icing on the cake.

>>51953514
It really doesn't, but that's as good a way to model it as any. Maybe have them create some kind of tidal influence in the oneiros that results in pseudo-Paradox, bending magic towards the spirits' goals. Go wild. Not too wild, and remember your carrots: people summon these things and risk whatever, the risk should be balanced out. Neither should be too extreme because you don't want to make it into a cripple-or-god kind of thing.

>>51953801
>fifty social skills

I count nine, bub. With pretty obvious uses and explanations.

A Spirit tries to Claim a Mage and fuse with their Awakened Soul.

What happens?
Can Supernaturals even be Claimed?

>>51953915
>Paths of Enlightenment

You mean Path of Whatever I Was Going To Do Anyway.

>>51953915
>Anybody ever run an oWoD Sabbat game?

Plenty of times, yes.

>>51953915
>Having read the Guide to the Sabbat, I find I like them better than the Anarchs or Camarilla, especially given the greater clan variety and the Paths of Enlightenment.

I get what you mean by "Paths of Enlightenment", since they *do* have vastly more differing moralities than most Camarilla vampires... but clan variety isn't really any different in the great scope of things.

Aside from a few exceptions like the Blood Brothers, Camarilla and Sabbat has members of all clans and bloodlines in their ranks, even if some only stay in either sect for a short time before moving on.

How the fuck do Technocractic seekings work?

>>51953801
>failing to live a good Christian life drives you literally insane...
An exaggeration. You don't start going insane until you start scraping the bottom of the Wisdom barrel. Normal people tend to be around mid to mid-high Wisdom, since paragons of virtue are few and far between.

>>51954137
Stealing can literally give you mental derangements. Its an odd mechanic.

Archmages really piss me the fuck off after reading these apparent wank fests, which /CofD/ & /wodg/ has devolved into. Our beloved threads now belong to fucking munchkin neckbeardos.

They should have never been developed, archmages are stupid. I fail to see why OPP feels the need to not uphold balance and equality in their games. Why should a witch necessarily be better than a vampire or werewolf?

>>51954247
>witch
Its no mere witch that bests ur favorite splats there buddy.

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>>51954247
Take your shitty bait and leave

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>>51954247
ok

>>51954247
>Why should a witch necessarily be better than a vampire or werewolf?
It's a thematic issue. Mage is big on hybris, and that means that the more rope the players have, the more elaborate the noose will be. Mage, as a game, asks "What will you do with unlimited power?" This is not a question that Vampire or Werwolf poses, so they don't "need" as much power to make their point.

>>51954075
I am indeed going to try and avoid this by talking to my players carefully. I doubt I'll let them start with a Path either, but rather guide them to one as their Humanity lowers.

>>51954082
i get you, but the Sabbat has more of every group, and they tend to stay for longer.

2e is for fags

>>51954330

A shame the mechanics never punish mages in any meaningful way.

>>51954247

When it comes to fiction, composite spellcasters have always been far more potent than composite vampires. I'm not trying to start shit here. It just seems entirely logical that magicians would be stronger than most. Mortals becoming the equals of gods via sorcery is a very old trope.

>>51954809

Usually at great cost, and never equalling gods, but rather bargaining with and making sacrifces to them or other nefarious beings. A lot of historically fictional popular ones were also demigods, half-demons (Merlin) or otherwise superhuman before being being inducted unto their arts (Cu Chulainn).

This idea of mages having power over everything gsined through their own self-enlightenment us not vety old, and in fact is very recent in human history, and born out of poor simulationist attitudes from old nerds. All you are doing is perpetuating the memetics of crusty grognards who were bullied in highschool.

>>51955130
>and never equalling gods
You clearly haven't read enough fiction.

>rather bargaining with and making sacrifices to them or other nefarious beings
Not all fictional magicians are the same.

>A lot of historically fictional popular ones were also demigods, half-demons (Merlin) or otherwise superhuman before being inducted unto their arts
The original Merlin was not half-demon. He was derived from two separate historical figures

>This idea of mages having power over everything gained through their own self-enlightenment us not vety old, and in fact very recent in human history, and born out of poor simulationist attitudes from old nerds.
Not really. You're literally just spewing hate at this point.

>All you are doing is perpetuating the memetics of crusty grognards who were bullied in highschool
Sorry you don't like the reality of things. Wizards have always been at the top of the totem pole is plenty of fictional works.

>>51955130

>never equalling gods

*cough* Marvel *cough *cough* DC *cough* *cough* D&D *cough* WoD *cough* *cough* Warhammer *cough* *cough*

>>51954796
I'm not all that up to date on Mage rules, but you could argue that that's the point. Nothing stops a dedicated Mage, and that is precisely why they're so terrifying. The Seer pylon really can (and maybe does) control all your non-Awakened friends and family, and they're not punished for it. The Mysterium endangers Sleeper lives, because they are less worthy, and the world continues turning. There is no force of justice slapping evildoers beyond what the players or other Mages do, and really, who has the time, power and moral integrity to police what amounts to more than one world?

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>>51955130

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>>51955271
*cough* *cough* Umineko *cough*

>>51954809
The strongest fictional wizards beat the strongest fictional vampires.

This isn't rocket science, dumbass.

I can actually agree on the god part, considering the bullshit comics can dish out.

>>51955271
>>51955327
>using capeshit, D&D, and weebshit to support your argument

Is this regular autism or ironic autism?
I guess vamps > mages because of Mandrakk the multiversal vampire

>>51955391
>comics
Don't forget how dumb anime is!

>>51955391
>The strongest fictional wizards beat the strongest fictional vampires
Butthurt mage hating vampfags will disagree with you on that, as evidently wrong as they are.

>>51955424
>Mandrakk

Sorry, Featherine writes the story for the omniverse and beyond. Sarda the Sage from 8bit theatre breaks the fourth and fifth walls. The magic users from DC (from which Mandrakk hails from) & Marvel have already trumped his ass.

HoM Wanda Maxmioff "No more Mandrakk" and he's fucking erased forever.

>imho this entire thread is a changeling plot to harvest glamor
Someone call the Spring Court, this Summerfag Changeling is waaaaay too good at his job.

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>>51955424

lol

Mr Mxyzptlk > Mandrakk

Magic users > Vampire gods

>>51944857
I think what amuses me more is that no body gives a fuck about Promethean

Which amuses me because it only makes me feel validated about my opinions on what I'd call a game with a shitty premise

>>51955487
>HoM
>using a story written by Brian Michael Bendis as an argument

Oh, so it's actuall autism, I'm sorry for picking on a neurodiverse minority

>>51955424
>weebshit

Featherine Augustus Aurora is quite literally one of the most powerful fictional characters ever produced.

>>51955575
Imps are mages, they're closer to fae.

Fae > Magic users

>>51955271

Nerd shit written by nerds. If you want to pull from myths and folklore, or even pulp fiction 30-40 years prior to those TTRPGs, it wasn't full of that fedora shit.

>>51955619
How does being a mary sue stop her from being weebshit?

>>51955622
>Imps are mages
what

>>51955622
That's a mighty big assumption there, buddy. Considering there's nothing to even suggest that.
If you go by the sum total of fiction, Imps are actually closer to Demons. Far closer.

Mr. Mxy has always been labeled as a "Fifth Dimensional wizard".

Your point is moot. And are fae suddenly not users of magic? hurhur deedur.

>>51955226

>I only read modern fantasy novels and capeshit, watch anime, and my first TTRPG experience was with D&D

Maybe it is you who should read up on this nebulous' fiction' you espouse.

>>51955622
How are fairies not users of magic?

How are you somehow labeling what an imp is, when it entirely depends on the author?

How is Mr. Mxy not a fucking mage when he was already declared as such?

>>51955226

>Merlin's traditional biography casts him as a cambion: born of a mortal woman, sired by an incubus, the non-human from whom he inherits his supernatural powers and abilities.

Nah bruh, he was always a half-demon.

>>51955702
Geoffrey of Monmouth conceived of Merlin between two figures, one Ambrosius and Myrddin Emrys.

He is an amalgam of two separate figures. Sorry, his origin was entirely human before Robert's re-interpretation of Geoffrey's work.

>>51955693
>How is Mr. Mxy not a fucking mage when he was already declared as such?

Myx isn't WoD character therefore he isn't a mage, just as he isn't a D&D character so he isn't Chaotic Neutral. Don't be autistic, not everything has to be translated into your game system.

>>51955803
>Myx isn't WoD character therefore he isn't a mage
>Don't be autistic, not everything has to be translated into your game system

Ummmm. Where did you get these assumptions from? Do you think that WoD coined the term "Mage" ?

I was referring to the fact that Mxy has been declared a fifth-dimensional wizard since his get-go.

>>51955424

Mandrakk is powerful, but so fucking overrated.

>>51955918
>a fifth-dimensional wizard
doesn't mean the same thing as WoD/CofD mage, just as a D&D wizard isn't a WoD/CofD mage and a Smite mage isn't a WoD/CofD mage.

So does anyone actually discuss game stuff, or is this thread nonstop autistic screeching as you compare the WoD to your favorite politics/weebshit/comicshit/fetishes?

Have any of you ever actually been in a WoD game? Because I'm sure as shit not seeing any stories or discussion here.

>>51956019
Discussion does happen but most people offer about as much to talk about as your post does. Not that this post is any better.

>>51956013
We're having two entirely different discussions here. Either you're retarded or fail to see the topic at hand.

I'm not talking about WoD at the moment.

This whole thread is fucking retarded. Not because it's entirely off-topic, but because you don't compare the strongest of fictional sorcerers to the strongest of fictional vampires.

Fictional vampires get stomped, even with Mandrakk on their side.


>ON-TOPIC QUESTION;

One World of Darkness wants to make a television franchise on Netflix. How would this go down? The original Masquerade show didn't do so well with Buffy stealing the light.

>>51956225
>One World of Darkness wants to make a television franchise on Netflix. How would this go down? The original Masquerade show didn't do so well with Buffy stealing the light.
They would likely sex it up, honestly most modern CW shows have about the right tone for world of Darkness, from Arrow to Riverdale. Then the obvious 'sexing it up' all those shows have fits in nicely with the 'edginess' if its on Netflix they can probably go more risque than previous works. Sex scenes and politics seems to be whats in vogue now anyway.

>>51956225
Depends what game they go with
>Vampire
See: The Vampire Diaries, basically
>Mage
See: The Magicians, except with more variety to the casting methods
>Werewolf
See: ???

Werewolf is probably their best bet, because there aren't any other eco-terrorist werewolf things out there.

Question; how strong is a newly embraced childe in oWoD? Do they have all their disciplines?

>>51956225
Honestly, IF they can pull it off, it'll be one of their more brand-ensuring things. They can do a level of mature stuff on Netflix that WW would want to do (softcore sex scenes, etc.). As far as how it would go down, they'll focus on Vampire the Masquerade first.

Despite KtE being different, it was being bought by Showtime before Mark Frankel died in a motorcycle accident, so obviously a big network saw potential in it. The big concern is the coverage of vampire media out and about, but Masquerade is different enough from True Blood, Vampire Diaries or The Originals to find its own niche.

I doubt they'll do anything other than vampire though. Everything else is TOO unique and different from the normal expectations of those things. Eco-terrorist anti-corporation werewolves will NOT do well, and Mage wouldn't either; the concept of 'regular magic vs. magic technology', unless they go the full Matrix route that some of us are expecting with the couple of MtAsc teasers, won't pull an audience.

Of all of them, Dreaming (assuming they don't fucking include Childlings) would do well as a Netflix series, the conflict and setting lends itself well for a small group TV show.

>>51956319
Is the Vampire Diaries any good from a WoD perspective? I could use a good show.

Also, does it deal in themes of power and inhumanity, or just angst and romance? Hopefully minimum romance, nectophilia is gross.

>>51953801
As someone with a great interest in the lore, but no experience in actually playing the system, I'm curious as to why Animal Ken and Computers shouldn't be distinct skills.

Should they just fall under Knowledge (Specialisation) or something?

>>51956466
The Originals is a better WoD-esque feel, IMO. It has more aspects of 'here are what elder vampires who don't care about Humanity or are on simple Paths' are like, and it does a better job at presenting a vampire-specific setting, since it has more vampire characters to focus on.

TVD has some good moments in the later seasons. The things it does regarding inhumanity mostly come from vampires being able to 'turn off' their emotions and go full feral killer, which they do with some regularity.

>>51944350
>Has there ever been any romance in your games and if so, how was it handled?

I played the Tremere blood slave of an abusive Tzimisce psychopath once. She wanted a spellslinging fuccboi to do her bidding, I guess.
That's pretty romantic, right?

>>51955576
Hey before i was a hardcore magefag I was a centimani trying to accomplish my lovecraft

>>51956501
Honestly, Animal Ken needs to remain its own skill. Just having knowledge of animal training isn't enough; you also have to have the ability to actually do it through body language, physical technique, recognizing animal behaviors, handling animals in various states of distress, ability to tell their moods, dealing with their personalities and effectively managing the animal's overall being. It's a huge thing.

>source: someone who grew up training horses for show, it's not just 'I know the technique behind training the horse'

>>51956225

>vampires get stomped

Was it ever any different?

>>51954330

The problem is that while unlimited power as a theme is nice for story, thay DaveB reads and furiously masturbate every night, is not that good for a game.

The harmless paradox means as dm i have to up the stakes as high as possible everytime as if this was dragon ball z or getting 5 stars in GTA.

The fact that mages are that pwerful means the game turn into "let see who get sympathetic casting first" and evolves into "lets see who reaches his sanctum first and snipes the other".

It transforms the game into a game of people jerking off in their sanctum and killing them from there.

And the whole argument of "it it balance because other mage can do it too" is not good enough because it requires the dm to play the npcs as idiot or they otherwise will kill the pcs before they can even react because magic is such "one hit fuck you"

Mage should have always been a game of throwing fireballs in dark alleys not this pretensious bullshit of symbols and privelege.

>>51956225
Motherfucker, Mandrakk transcended fictional existence. Presumably he could perceive the reader like the STR could, since they were in the level. Gay wizard shit needs to leave.

>>51956319
You could have the Technocratic Union as protagonists.

>>51956981
You're expecting a lot to think people will cheer for The Agents from the Matrix.

>>51956888
TLDR: Ascension is best

>>51957011
You can make it happen if you make a group of Reality Deviant hunters that use super science to save the day from rouge ghosts, vampires, werewolves, and other spooks. Its all about framing.

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>>51956980
Sorry. Featherine can already so much more than that.

Mandrakk isn't even strong enough to take on the Living Tribunal, who in-turn can't challenge Featherine due to how her powers work. She IS the author. The omniverse and beyond equate to fanfiction when she's involved.

She will write him out of existence. It's also a direct counter to how Mandrakk's powers work. The Bleed is nothing to her.

>>51957028

Yes basically that, rules can be messy and owod system shits itself on the bed sometimes but yes ascension is best.

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>>51957074

Featherine doesn't need to involve herself.
Bernkasel & Lambdadelta would destroy Mandrakk on their own.

Umineko witches, like you said, are a direct counter to Mandrakk.

Sorry for the weeb pic.

>>51957074
>>51957155
Now again for plebs.

>>51957155
God stop with the Umineko.

>>51957044
It could happen, sure. The framing of anything is always the most difficult. Which is why I can't see framing eco-terrorist werewolves working as well as 'newly embraced neonate' angle.

Though taking a page out of Fringe for the technocratic angle would work, I think.

Why do wizards always win these vs battles/debates...?

I guess it's because it's common fucking sense?

I really wish you narks would just ditch the biased attitudes and use your brains for once.

>"I love potatoes more than dragons, so surely potatoes are stronger than dragons."

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>>51956888
>It's the mages dont need to leave their sanctum fag
>he isn't mentioning needed space or correspondence again
>he wants mage to be 8bit DnD
>he probably freaks out when arch mages posts start flexin'


Mmm mmm really got my corpus collosum in Folsom

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>>51956225
SciFi already had a series like this and it sucked wolf nuts.

The closest thing was True Blood.

>>51956888
Sorry that your views don't align with jack shit

>pretentious bullshit of symbols and privilege
You sound like a fat fucking feminist

>>51957515
I wish both of you would shut the fuck up.

On a more on topic note, my experience in WoD is almost entirely with nMortal, but I'm in a nChangeling game now. I'm hype as fuck for it. We've got a Snowskin Elemental who was kidnapped immediately after giving birth and is hungry to kick Fae ass, a wizened/elemental kith (walking brewery basically) bartender kidnapped into being a Fae's drink mixer, and myself, a struggling artist lured into service thinking I was getting mortal patronage. Then I was dragged off to a little house based on one of my paintings and forced to be a darkling boogeyman to a little girl, feeding on her fear. We've each just escaped to the Hedge.

Same guy nabbed each of us in contract to our respective keepers- and the son of a bitch stole my suit and hat after knabbing me.

>>51957649

and yet i dont see a counter argument.

>>51957715
>counter argument

Don't use mages?
I bet you have fucking Down syndrome if you couldn't figure this out.

>>51957598
>>he isn't mentioning needed space or correspondence again
Read again, i said getting the sympathetic casting attaiment.

>>he wants mage to be 8bit DnD
If that would make mage more fun to play, sure.

>>he probably freaks out when arch mages posts start flexin'
Archmages are pure wankery.

>51944350
Get along lil doggies HYAAA
>>51957776

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THIS THREAD IS BECOMING ONE BIG CANCEROUS TUMOR

>>51957762
>Don't use mages?
>I bet you have fucking Down syndrome if you couldn't figure this out.

My argument is not splat vs splat, what i said is that mage as game with its autistic focus on privelege that gives mages that insane amount of power is not really functional/fun.

Is just a game of one hit kill the other on the comfort of your house.

How did mankind not go extinct with monsters lurking about? A single vampire within a population kills about 52 people per year

>>51957772
Not all mages want to wear a pointy hat and cast fireballs at rats, famalam.

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>>51957802
>he's ommitting needing space and correspondence again

Mmmlem got my synapsing prolapsing

>>51953915
The treatment of the Paths in the Lore has always bugged me - There's just no way the Camarilla could function in any capacity at all with the canon status of "Everyone is Path of Humanity." Hardestadt is Humanity 2 for fucks sake, he's barely capable of reason. Meanwhile, Eric Baring-Gould has Humanity 7 but beats his servants for funzies, and Anne Bowesley is a mad Diabolist that somehow gets away with Humanity 6.

For my games, I run with a few select Paths of Enlightenment existing within the Camarilla - particularly Path of Power and the Inner Voice (which makes no fucking sense for the Sabbat anyway), and a few of the Dark Ages roads.

>>51954088
Episodes of Synesthesia, and dreams of genius new ideas.

>>51956888
Reminds me of an Ascension concept one of my players built, Lazy stoner Mage

He as an Ecstatic focused on Time and Correspondence, with just enough Matter and Forces thrown in to connect them. On the few occasions he'd leave his couch, it'd be to do things like set up a bomb at a political rally a few weeks before it happened then punt it into the future.

>>51956281
>CW World of Darkness

please jesus fuck no
holy shit i didn't need these nightmares

Also,

>sex scenes
>CW

I too identify intimacy and sexuality with a brief, respectful makeout followed by the inevitable (why) wakeup scene where one or both characters are either clothed or Toga themselves with the sheets just like normal human beings have done since time immemorial, immediately putting underwear and sometimes shirt and fucking pants back on before they fall asleep post-coitus.

I can't wait for them to PG-13 all your favorite gamelines.

Besides they already did an of Darkness Netflix original, it's called Hemlock Grove and it collapsed in the second season after they told the story they really wanted to tell and no one knew what the fuck to do with the rest of it.

>>51956501
>>51956648

Animal Ken is used often in the context of powers and never outside of them; it is an "every social skill, but for animals" ability that will basically come up as many times per chronicle as the ST remembers to toss in a guard dog. It could be bundled into Survival, which also sees low use outside powers, to make that skill more broadly useful at dealing with the natural world outside the expected urban setting. If everything under Academics and Science can be one skill, I don't give a shit about horse training.

Computers isn't even used for powers. There's technically rules for hacking but you have to shoehorn it in there so your players have things to hack with regularity. It's just too niche.

>>51957935
>Not all mages want to wear a pointy hat and cast fireballs

Not that there's anything wrong that...

#NotAllObrimos

>>51957802
Except it's not. Not unless you let it be.