Warhammer 40k General /40kg/

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First for Yvraine

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Second for the second best Primarch (after Dorn, of course)

Why does the link to the Gw faq link up to the Japanese side of Gw?

why doesn't the online builder have renegades and heretics as an army

also rate my list I hope it's not too cheesy

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dominatrix for 40k when

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>>51881739

How are GSC right now meta wise? What are some must have units for them if you were going to play against tau mech spam.

>>51881776
They can't kill flyers, otherwise they're pretty good.

>>51881786
I imagine putting them with guard could help that.

>>51881750
If Jaghatai turns out as tractor, he gonna approve.

>>51881802
You can also take a flyrant, obviously.

>>51881739
No forgeworld content.

>>51881776
Good if you roll well.

>>51881823
Speaking of which if all primarchs became chaosite, who would worship who?

>>51881866
All would worship Guilliman obviously.

>>51881838
True, also is it staff of subterranean uprising that lets the magus generate more dudes? I have been wanting to play them like they have taken over a PDF but am not familiar with guard. I know a lot of the people here play them so what would be a good thing to grab for anti air.

>>51881823
Scratch that.
>>51881866
Jaghatai would be slaanesh horse(thing)rider on cocaine painted red to GO FASTA!

>>51881870
wut? wait, why? how? explain this!

>>51881903
Well because he is the greatest obviously. Don't you know that as they boarded the Vengeful Spirit during the Battle for Terra, they found him cowering in the corner of his command bridge sobbing, having glued horseshoes onto his pauldrons and painted his armor blue, lamenting that he would never be an Ultramarine !

>>51881940
him being Horus obviously.

>>51881940
Anon.exe has stopped working.
P.S. I just was sitting on ultramarine symbol. Am i heretic?

How do we fix tau?
I would start by giving BS 4 to their units. And also overwatch on full BS.

>>51882006
One or two on nova reactor gives the riptide a wound back, instead of inflicting one. Thatd be a good fix

>>51881996
>Am i heretic?
Depends. Were you sitting on it because everything in your house is decorated with Ultra-Symbols, as it should be? Then you're fine.

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What army is the worst spot right now?

Not counting Orks.

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back when 40k was badass and not edgy

>>51882032
my army

your army is populated entirely by whiny bitches who deserve nothing

>>51882032
Dark Eldar. Because now every time I tell someone I play Dark Eldar they assume I mean I play Wraithguard in Raiders.

Go eat a dick GW. GSII was literally worse than nothing.

>>51882032
The worst army is Tyranids by all objective standards. They're worse than orks by far.

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>>51882032
>those hips

wtf real women dont look like that!

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Looking for feedback on my Thousand Sons fix.

>>51882053
>3 chaplains for half a company
Morale must be pretty high

>>51882088
The best ones do, you flat-arsed anorexic skank.

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1

>>51882079
Lol.

>>51882032
Orks>>>>>>>>>>Tyranids=Dark Eldar>>Chaos Space Marines

This is discounting the Ally-tier factions like Harlequins and Tempestus.

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2
y/n?

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>>51882145
>>51882154
If you get a chance to stab GW in the dick, do it

>>51882053
Wot this was the edgiest period.

>>51882176
It's FW. Also i have ton of recast.

>>51882053
>the nostalgia it hurts.

>>51881823
>tractor

>>51882150
>I don't play 40k: The post

>>51882247
>Flyrants

>>51882145
Sie sind das Essen und Wir sind die Jäger!

What kind of spot are Necrons in right now?

>>51882288
They have spot in my heart.

>>51882150
IG are in far dire straits than fucking Chaos
fuck off

With was worst editions?
1. Fluff changes
2. Rules
3. Worst written Codieces

>>51882344
The truth hurts, bitch. IG need personalization more than buffs. They're one of the factions that needs the top end of the power curve to come down and the core rules to unfuck themselves.

>>51882366
In terms of balance, this is probably the worst that it's ever been. Rules are probably at their worst as well.

In terms of fluff, we haven't really had a major paradigm shift (aside from the last couple months) since like 2e->3e.

>>51882264
One good unit out of a codex filled with total garbage doesn't make the army good.

Orks don't have any star players like flyrants, but they're less shitty overall.

>>51882288
While they are outmanoeuvred and outgunned by T1, they are a pain in the ass for all armies, they serve as hard ceiling for tier 2 armies.

>>51882367
No fuck off you shit-eating Chaos nigger
Renegades are better than guard, and you faggot just got Traitor Legion rules which fixed swathes of shit
meanwhile IG has had zero supplements, their formations are shit or overcosted, they lost several of their special rules making vehicles like the stock LR worthless, they lost half their characters, and the characters that remained got nerfed into the ground to the point of uselessness aside from Pask and Stracken
the only thing we really got out of the new dex were Wyverns and 3 point conscripts.
yes i'm fucking mad, Chaos vanilla dex is horrible but after TL you faggots have no rights to bitch compared to Orkz, Nids, Deldar and IG.

>>51882420
>Renegades are better than guard
Space Marines are better than CSM. Doesn't have any bearing on the discussion at hand.

Traitor Legions did fuck all for the majority of the legions. Sure, it's a great day to be Death Guard or Alpha Legion, but have fun with your Thousand Sons or Word Bearers or Black Legion. God forbid you play Crimson Laughter.

>>51882408
Good thing I didn't say the army was good, just less shitty than Orks.

>>51881744
Is there a difference between this and the Norn Queen? The latter just shits out new tyranids, right?

>>51882366
5th edition necron codex wins for worst fluff change of all time. If it wasn't for the fact that they're a pretty okay army it would be a strong contender for worst ever codex, up there with 3rd edition DE and 6th edition tyranids.

>>51882419

Yeah, Crons are like, the top end of mid-tier. The gatekeepers to high tier.

>>51882453
The army isn't less shitty though. There is a single unit that is not shitty. There's a bunch of ork units that are pretty good vs exactly one good tyranid unit.

>>51882461
I regularly table Necrons with my SoB. The fuck are you talking about?


Disclaimer: the local Necron players are mentally retarded they get table by Orks and Nids on the regular

>>51882420
>Emperor's fist lets you reroll damage table
>Ap1 now only has 1/9 chance of killing your tanks
>tank commanders co-tanks are finally bs4, and others can also be bs4 by sticking within 1 foot of him

Worthless! Nobody ever takes 5 tanks in a guard army!

>>51882485

Necrons played by someone who doesn't have the brain power of someone suffering a serious head injury table sisters with ease.

>>51882457
They're basically planetary norn-queens with psychic powers and titan weaponry that both serve as commanders and also produce units in the field.

>>51882420
>Astra militarum is bad!!!

:laughing: :okay_hand:

>>51882489
>if you don't use this formation then your tanks are shit compared to last edition
thanks for clarifying

>>51882515
they're 4th worst

>>51882499
If you bring 12 metal boxes full of discount MEQ to the table and get tabled by anything that isn't tailored, you probably suffered a serious head injury as a child.

>>51882535
what the fuck is this abomination

>>51882145
How good are those things?

I would love to add some to my SoB/Inquisition might use other things like dog models>>51882150

>>51882006

> Riptide
Remove Jet unit type. You can turn it into a Jet by using Nova, but remove the turboJet option.
Remove the Overcharged Ion shot. The only way to Blast it is by using the Nova charge.
Harnessing Nova suffers a penalty of -1 for every Wound lost.

>>51882531
How the fuck are you bringing 12 metal box with SoB? Unless for some reason you are running those squads naked.

>>51882517
Id rather be allowed to fire all my guns at full bs while moving than use the large blast variants with sponsons anyways.

>>51882548
they should just make Riptides a walker
there is no reason why Tau should have an MC, the only factions that should are Daemons, CSM and Tyranids

>>51882485
Sisters and guard are among the Mid tier armies than can challenge crons the most as they can easily reduce reanimation rolls by massed S8

>>51882565
What about Great Knarloc from the kroot? Or the Penitent Engine of the SoB? (The bloody thing ignores everything but weapon destroy and immbolize, make it a MC already)

>>51882565
And Orks.

Squiggoths and maybe particularly fuckhuge warbosses.

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>>51882032
>that hip to waist ratio
Dammit dick, every time

>>51882554
12 units of HF sisters, melta dominions, and HF retributors fits neatly in 1800 points, although you have to cut something to fit the HQ.

For most armies this would be tard tier but sisters in boxes is basically the only good thing in the army other than exorcists.

>>51882565
The fucking stormsurge needs to be a walker right the fuck now tau having a gargantuan creature in their codex when chaos, orks and tyranids don't is nuts.

>>51882595
It's obvious from the context, but I forgot to mention that everybody gets to ride into a TLMMolator, which is a respectable unit itself. Also, Celestine.

>>51882511
thanks

also, FUGG

>>51881866
Sanguinias would be Khornate as originally intended, were it not for the sacrifice of the apothecary who interupted the deal.

>>51882535
you know what does it for me? Not the fact that it is rhino glued together. Not the fact that is' all red.
Look at that fucking tape which glues something to the "rhino". What the fuck is this?

What I don't get is how a daemon prince is monstrous but a bloodthirster isn't gargantuan

>>51882589
ah yes orkz, forgot about the Squiggoth

>>51882595
Holy fuck I never thought of that.
Single CAD can fit 6x BSS HF+F in an Immolator with dozer blades. 3x Melta Dominions in Immolator and 3x Exorcist. Also random Priest
For 1780. The fuck?

>>51882617
why the fuck is it a GC anyway, is there a massive fucking Tau inside of that suit? Who's the faggot with a Tau boner at GW

>>51882617
Yeah, i'd say if daemons don't have MC that big, races that conforms to physical laws sure as fuck won't.

>>51882583
>Great Knarloc
Yeah.
>Penitent Engine
Nah.

In my opinion, MCs should only be organic/daemonic in nature. For example, a Maulerfiend should be an MC.

>>51882511
If you put them in modern 40k terms they'd be a gargantuan creature with a single bio-cannon like the Hierodule has, the invulnerable save of a zoanthrope and be at least ML2, probably ML3 psykers with some crazy extended range torrent flamer version of warp lance representing their psychic death-ray.

>>51882664
Well PE is the only walker that makes sense at least fluff wise to be a MC.

The entire point of the thing is to die in combat.

I'd be mostly happy if the thing had fleet.

>>51882641
Many small units is the one thing that Sisters are good at.

And blowing up vehicles, I guess.

Is an enginseer and servitor crew loitering behind a tank commander worth 80 points?

>>51882475
>bunch of ork units that are pretty good
[Citation Needed]

Is the Imperium the only faction that can't build and replace many of their best vehicles and ships and have to rely on relics? All the other xenos are guaranteed to win in the long run at this rate.

>>51882697
NOBS

>>51882683
Sadly my I only own 10 Melta Dominions (superior with combi melta) 20 BSS with HF+F (Superio with combi flamer)
4 Immolator and 2 Repressors.
Squad of 10 Retribution with heavy Bolters
2 Exorcist and 6 PE, oh and a squad of Seraphim with 2 hand flamers.

My Repentias are the worst Melee unit in the game so they never come out to play

>>51882682
How does wanting to die make it a MC?

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I'm thinking about reading "Master of Mankind" or "The first heretic"

Wich one would you recommend?

>>51882699
IN

>>51882366
>1. Fluff changes
HorusHeresy
>2. Rules
7th with its formation spam but 3rd prior to the update was kinda blergh too
>3. Worst written Codieces
4th ed CSM

>>51882715
A

>>51882706
I would own Sisters myself if I didn't feel like I'd have to pay out the ass even for an allied detachment. Mostly I tell myself I'm waiting on that plastic.

Someday...

>>51882707
Ah in the sense that thing ignores everything. Even now they ignore everything but weapon destroy and immobilise.

Rules and mechanic wise makes little sense for them to be a walker and not a MC, mind you on the weak side of MC.

>>51882716
4th edition Chaos without 3.5 to compare it to isn't that bad. I'd say that the last two Tyranid codexes or Ork codexes are worse. We at least had a bunch of SC's left and out models weren't as old.

>>51882682
That doesn't make sense at all. It's mostly mechanical with the exception of the pilot.

>>51882731
Not really.

>>51882728
I don't give a fuck and use alternative models. But knowing GW they would pull a Carnifex with SoB at least regarding their metal boxes

>>51882708
The first Heretic, after that Betrayer.

MoM was enjoyable but giving chaos fanboy to write book about Emperor was a mistake.

>>51882731
>Rules and mechanic wise makes little sense for them to be a walker and not a MC, mind you on the weak side of MC.
MCs are everything that moves its limbs biologically
Walkers and Vehicles are everything that moves mechanically

>>51882631
Why do keeper of secrets lure Sanguinius to be khornate?
Sanguinius woud be warmaster, and that why horus want angel death instead of turned traitor.

>>51882731
Nah. Penitent Engines are just machines that will not stop. Maulerfiends are daemonically posessed and mutated machines in the form of giant beasts, whom even have flesh growing under and over their mechanical plating.

>>51882746
Well a giant suit of armour are MC or GMC.

>>51882686
In most cases...maybe. In the emp's fist formation, take two.

By default, they make grav spammers cry and are immensely frustrating for most others because you nullify the typical stun-lock strategy for leman russes. But they're worthless if the enemy tries to hit you with melta and rolls even on 5 on the vehicle damage table. I would take 1 techpriest squad if you have three or more Russes, and the 80 points should pay itself off. Plus, 5 guys hiding behind your tanks means an emergency meat shield against deep strikes.

With the emp's fist, your techpriests have an aura of anti-ap1 that makes your tanks infinitely more survivable. Take two techpriest squads, split the tank formation in half, and enjoy walloping your enemy from two sides of the board, never stop firing with awaken the machine, and heal up to 3 new tanks worth of hull points in a single game

>>51882739
>4th edition Chaos without 3.5 to compare it to isn't that bad.
wut?
squads that loose their allegiance to their god when bannerman gets killed, inluding benefits like +1T
includes dreadnaughts that shot at your own army
includes spawn which crawl somehow over the table
only real way to play was lash+oblits

>>51882763
Explain the Tau Armours and wraightknights. Moder 40k threw that separation out of the window.

>>51882771
Shoot, I must've misremembered. I was thinking about Kha'Banda and my mind went straight to Khorne.

Though, it does kind of make sense. Red Thirst+Black Rage is definitely something that wouldn't be out of the ordinary for Khornates.

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>>51882628
Just for you I have taken a picture of the description in Hive War with my phone, since I don't think a PDF exists.

>>51882786
>Explain the Tau Armours and wraightknights
power creep

>>51882731
>they ignore everything except for two of the biggest damage results
It makes zero sense for them to be MCs. All of the defensive and offensive and mobile bits are mechanical.

>>51882794
of course it's upside down, thanks phone

>>51882794
Australians, not even once.

>>51882763
Nope, that's a bad definition of MC

Because why are Wraith constructs MC? They're made of wraithbone aka psychic plastic.

Why are Daemons MC?
They're not real. Just the immaterium made manifest

>>51882804
In any case I would just be happy to run and charge. Maybe and extra HP.

The things die faster than Ork transports

>>51882818
>Because why are Wraith constructs MC? They're made of wraithbone aka psychic plastic.
power creep

>They're not real. Just the immaterium made manifest
warp flesh is still flesh

>>51882831
Wraithlords have been MC's for ages.

>>51882763

> MC's are everything that the designers play
> Walkers are everything that is ass

I've never understood why I can destroy anything from a Storm Bolter to a Demolisher Cannon when it's tank-mounted, but a bio-weapon is fully functional until death.

Personally I'd just throw out the whole AV system and make everything in the game dependant on T, W and Sv.
Just introduce Mechanical as a unit type that swaps vulnerability to Fleshbane for Haywire, Instant Death for Armourbane, and immunity to Poison.

>>51882818
>Eldar
Phil Kelly is like the opposite of Cruddace.
>Eldar are winning tourneys? Have a gift!
>Eldar aren't winning tourneys? Buff them!

>Daemons
Nigga they still have flesh and blood when they manifest in the materium.

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>>51882810
>>51882813
>>51882794
Here we go.

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can i use marneus calgar in a 1500 pt army?

>>51882857
That is some what reasonable.

>>51882850
>Wraithlords have been MC's for ages.
And Eldar have been fucking OP for ages. Notice something?

>>51882857
>Personally I'd just throw out the whole AV system and make everything in the game dependant on T, W and Sv.
Or actually use the possibilities the AV system could provide and make stuff like Land Raiders AV 15 or even 16.

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Why is relic advertising DoW3 so heavily already? They don't even have a release date set, but I keep seeing ads for it all over the place. Seems a bit premature when people don't even know when it's gonna be coming out. Does this mean it's coming out kinda soon?

>>51882887
My main problem with vehicles is that they get worst if someone looks at them. While MC do not give a fuck till they die

>>51882831
A wraithlord doesn't have a biological pilot.

>>51882887
>5th ed Eldar
>OP

>>51882831

>power creep
Except they've been MC since what? 3e?

>warp flesh is still flesh
If warpflesh is still flesh then they'd have some biomass. Except they don't.

Fall of Shadowbrink
>Up until this point the Hive Mind had utterly ignored the Daemonic forces due to their lack of consumable biomass.

>>51882731
I can explain every vehicle damage result for an mc:
Shaken: the mc's targeting systems are thrown off by the shells hitting it, or the squshy driver inside is disoriented by the knock back. Perhaps a large explosion causes the machine to stumble?

Stunned: the machine or creature is knocked flat on its ass by a supersonic shell to the face, and is struggling to get back up. A power cable is severed and the computer is forced to reroute the power through less capable conduits, or the pilot is forced to divert his attention to getting his mech back in operation.
Immobilized: I took a rocket to the knee, now I have no knee. Ow.
Weapon destroyed: I took a rocket to the arm, now I have no arm. Shit.
Explodes: oh god the react-BOOM! Alternatively, the pilot cockpit is penetrated, liquefying him. Boom, headshot. Etc.

>>51882892
The power of Hype.
Just look at No Game Sky.

>>51882905
Unlike MC? Wraith are more mechanical than anything and are MC. What is a walker, MC, Vehicle, GMC or Super Heavy is a mess and make little sense right now

>>51882908
Daemons only have flesh and blood because those they fight imagine/believe they do. The Warp acts like that. That, and when they die they are banished back to the Warp.

>>51882899
And that they can instantly blow up. And that there are way more weapons that get boni vs vehicles (Haywire, Grav) than stuff to take down MCs.

>>51882908
>Except they've been MC since what? 3e?
And Eldar have been broken since about 3e.

>>51882906
Your Greentext does not change reality

>If warpflesh is still flesh then they'd have some biomass. Except they don't.
Stop being obnoxious, warp formed flesh, while not traditional material flesh, still behaves like flesh and so makes them MCs.

>>51882918
Yes, honestly a damage chart for MCs would actually go a long way to fix things.

>>51882887
>>Wraithlords have been MC's for ages.
>And Eldar have been fucking OP for ages. Notice something?
Wraithlords being MCs have nothing to do with eldar's power level. They aren't even considered good this edition.

Wraithlords are MCs because there is no pilot. Its a organic, unliving body inhabited by the soul of a dead eldar. They control it like you or I control our own bodies.
And yes, wraithbone is organic. Its grown and shaped, not manufactured.

Wraithknights are a bit tricky, because they operate on the same concept, but also have a living pilot. I havn't read the fluff in detail, but my headcannon at least is that the living twin serves to help focus the attention of the soul operating the knight, instead of piloting it directly, which is why you can justifty it as a MC rather than a walker.

The titans are too large even for multiple souls to operate, so the pilot does the operating, aided by the souls, instead of the other way around for the knights.

>>51882918
The thing is MC are way better than Walker

I don't even recall an edition where vehicles were better than MC

>>51882984
wasn't 4th or 5th the edition of vehicle spam?
Back when the scariest MC was a greater daemon, so 3 lascannons actually meant something, and monsters died pretty quick

>>51883003
Nop, even Spammed Landraider Crusaders that could ignore meltas die like flies.
They never remove the mechanic of destroying a vehicle with glance, only made it easier or harder.

>>51883023
there was at least one edition where glances couldn't kill vehicles, im positive.

>>51882892
as opposed to keeping us in the dark about it?

Now, we can all agree that Orks and Tyranids are in terrible shape right now. But is there one rule or wargear one of those have that would be absurdly broken on another army?

>>51883080
Lukky stikk obviously.

Don't have the FAQ at hand, Luminagen doesn't stack from multiple hits, right?

>>51883080

>Lukky
>Fuckin
>Stikk

That on a storm shield terminator would make Smashfucker look like a Dark Eldar.

>>51882543
It's walking basilisk pie plate for 30 points. Charge someone and explode at I 10 with no survivors.

>>51883080
lucky stikk is fucking retarded IN the orks army

imagine it with like space wolves.

>>51883003
5th was vehicle spam all MSU all the time. 4th was footsloggers since transports were such a hindrance. They would legit kill your whole squad and you could practically do nothing. Usually one Lascannon would do it too in 4th. That's why everyone was on foot for the most part. Eldar vehicles were ok, same for Tau.

>>51883109
>>51883094
>>51883085
what does the Lukky Stikk do?

>>51883100
I need it! Where are the rules and what is the easiest way to add one as an ally for my SoB?

So how do we fix Adamantium Will?

>grants Stubborn
>allows you reroll failed leadership test(once per game?)
>something else?

>>51883138

Give Deny the witch only to units within 12" of the psyker.

>>51883138
re-roll DTW

>>51883121
you get to re-roll saves, attacks or wounds.

if you fail three re-rolls you die. that should never happen so its just free re-rolls.

>>51883121

> Reroll failed dice
> On a 2+ Mega Armour

>>51883121
+1 WS for bearer and unit, they can re-roll any failed To Hit, To Wound or Saves. If you fail 3 or more in a turn, the model dies.

>>51883121
re-roll to-hit to-wound armor save. If you fail three times, berarer dies
don't forget about WS+1 for entire unit.

How do we fix Terminators?
T5?
better wargear?

>>51883173
two wounds.

thats it.

>>51883124
http://dls.firone-land.com/imperial%20armour/Imperial%20Armour%201%20-%202nd%20Edition%20-%20Imperial%20Guard.pdf
216 page. I think no one will care if you take it as part of castellans.

>>51883173
Just make them cheaper so 5 models dont end up costing 200+ points.

>>51883178
>2 wounds
>toughness 4

>>51883181
Cool thanks.
Castellan made Old Witch Hunter codex more easy to replicate

>>51883198
with 2+/5++ saves.

how many s8 ap 2 blast weapons are there?

>>51881823
I really, really, really want a plastic Jaghatai Khan on Storm Tractor kit now.

>>51883173
I suppose you could buff the invuln save. Giving them 2 wounds without a toughness increase won't help much. My battle cannons, lascannons, and melta guns don't really care how many wounds a t4 has.

>>51883216
On top of my head
>Riptide

Less Common
>Demolisher Cannon
>Deathstrike Missile

But it's less the S8 AP2 than the S-D AP2 of the D-scythes

>>51883173
Massively increase the cost of almost all AP 3 and better weapons in the game and let them fire their weapons twice in the shooting phase.

>>51883173

They need to be tougher, and there's a whole lot of points to consider.
Where should the ID cutoff be?
Plasma has been a classic Termie killer; should this be retained?
Do they need to be tougher against small arms, big guns, or both?
What should the balance between a Biker and Termie Chapter Master be?

I'd personally suggest:
> Increased resilience to small arms
> A Lascannon should still core them
> A Plasma Gun should need to double-tap them

Enemy attacks suffer -1S against them, confer +1 Wound and a 2+ Save. Enables Deep Strike.

>>51883250
Honestly anything AP 3 or better big template should not be had below 250 points.

>>51883073
No, but generally game companies don't do a big advertising campaign until the run up to the games release. It's strange to see them do it before there's even a release date set

>>51883250
well the riptide is retarded is should be meganerfed .

the other twos only reason to exist is to provide high strength and low ap blasts.

terminators shouldnt be invincible you know?

>>51883277
well they've been showing gameplay and such but I see where you are coming from

>>51883271
>looted wagon with killkannon
>250pts

u best be joking

>>51883268
>Plasma has been a classic Termie killer; should this be retained?
The fact that plasma guns are the counter to terminator armour always seemed weird what with terminator armour being built to literally function in plasma reactors.

>>51883285
>terminators shouldnt be invincible you know?
Terminators should be the unit that simply is not cost effective to kill, like Land Raiders should be a tank that simply is not cost effective to kill.

>>51883297
Yes, fight me. Spammable High Str Low AP weapons are what killed foot slogging, melee and Nids in speciic. Nerf its gun or raise its price.

>>51883216
Kustom mega kannons
Dark scythes
melta cannons

Dont forget weapons like regular weapons that can be spammed or weapons with multiple shots.

>>51883316
>>51883343
a squad of 5 terminators is like 175pts. why are you expecting it to be impervious to damage?

If Nids become at least half decent in the next edition I'll pull the trigger and start collecting.
Otherwise I'll just probably start building a Norse blood bowl team with a black captain. I've been browsing too much /tg/ and got my interest back again

>Is there a way I can get cheaper product if I happen to live in Nottingham?

>>51883361
Because it also shouldn't cost as much as 20 Guardsmen and a Chimera, just because GW wants to sell more models.

>>51883361
Because Terminator armour in the lore is pretty hyped up, a fan favorite with Space Hulk and the likes existing and in the game it feels like wearing a paper carton gundam suit.

Increase their points cost, and reduce the amount of High Str Low AP Ordnance and the game in general will become more healthy and less about spamming the newest toy.soldier model GW put out. FFS foot slogging is completely not-viable, and that's literally 90% of the art.

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Joining a competitive 1850 league locally, where should I drop 60 points?
I could always go CAD with the sisters, and not take coteaz, but hammerhand would be good on the deathstar if I can get it rolling, and the respawn from castellans would be good too.

(The rhinos are repressors, I gave add ons so they'd be 75 each)

>>51883325
Its still shit.
>shoot someone with demolisher
>hit 4 models, 3 wounds, 2 dead
Wooooow, so op.

>>51883397
if you remove high str low AP shit how are armies like IG supposed to compete? I would say drown their enemies in lasfire but they wound on fucking 5s against T4

>>51883285
I had no problem with Demolishers or Deathstrikes. Just answering the
>how many s8 ap 2 blast weapons are there?

Personally both the Demolisher Cannon and Deathstrike have good checks imo
>short range
>delayed firing

>>51882857
If we're going to eliminate the duel system, we should go full AV and call IT toughness. It's easier for new players to understand and even for experianced players "str +d6=>T is a lot faster to calculate in your head than d6+[Str-T]=>4

>>51883417
In response of course 3+ armies should have icnreased points cost. I'm just generally disgusted that in the average game of Marines vs Guard the Marines field more Infantry than the guard.

>>51883404
330 points... I have 3 old bikes from I played BT... you just gave me an idea to be a cunt.

We need 1+ save. It's basically 2+ but you can use it against ap 2

>>51883055
In 5th ed glances could kill vehicles, but they had to be immobilized and all weapons shot off.

>>51883325

>Spammable High Str Low AP weapons are what killed foot slogging

Nope. Footslogging will always be terrible under 40k as it is now, because only being able to move 6"+d6 per turn means you're just unbearably slow, unless you're REALLY resilient. Also you have to abandon the concept of close combat if you're footslogging, because you'll never get there.

>>51883456
But then what happens to all the armies outwithout ap1 weapons?

>>51883466
BT back in 3rd/4th move when they took causality.

I miss the mechanic even when they could kite me around.

>>51883466
>unless you're REALLY resilient
Huh, I wonder what Terminators or Big Blobs are supposed to be but aren't because ranged weapons are on average 50% undercosted.

>>51883325
might as well remove shooting too guy. The night before last I saw a dark eldar player wipe out a nid player by turn 3 and all he was running were 5 man squads and their boat things.


Also as a guard player I say from the bottom of my heart "go shove a carnifex up your ass", my army is shit without ordnance.

>>51883471
What armies don't have AP1? At least armies that matter

>>51883471
Drill.
Raise price of termies so you can't spam them.

>>51883417
You say that like, point for point, lasgun spam isn't a pretty effective anti-infantry tactic. Throw a 30 man blob at those terminators, and they'll drop ~2 a turn with FRSF.

Nobody takes Guard complaints seriously because the majority of the playerbase thinks their ultra cheap infantry should be model for model competing with marines and shit. This is the same problem with Orks and chronic complaints that Shootas need buffed.

>>51883456
or just, you know, not have so many AP2 wepons

>>51883515
i'm not complaining at all, the only thing i'm really complaining about is the lack of a melta and plasma gun in the guard box
I'm very aware diddly can dakka termies to death, i'm just fucking annoyed we have to buy shit we don't want to get plasma and melta guns

>>51883493
You say that like MSU Venom-spam isn't one of the most "competitive" ways to run Dark Eldar.

>>51883531
You said:
>>51883417
>I would say drown their enemies in lasfire but they wound on fucking 5s against T4
If that isn't a complaint or an implication that mass lasfire isn't a good tactic, I'm not sure what it is.

I'm not really sure how you're poor access to weapon bits is at all relevant to the discussion or why you're bringing it up. Other than trying to deflect from your retardation.

>>51883487

So fuck actually being able to shoot at threats, because terminators must be good.

There's no single change to balance both terminators and the ability to stop terminators.

>>51883538
I have beaten him in a few objective games with my guard. If only by the use of autocannons and battlecannons. My infantry just get mowed down by him like the nids do.

>>51883493
>The night before last I saw a dark eldar player wipe out a nid player by turn 3 and all he was running were 5 man squads and their boat things.
I'm not saying that this alone will instantly make Nids viable, but it'll go a long way.

>Also as a guard player I say from the bottom of my heart "go shove a carnifex up your ass", my army is shit without ordnance.
Go fuck yourself, your vehicles are too fucking cheap, leafblower-wannabes and parking lots are boring as shit to play against. ield some Infantry like a man you cunt.

>>51883538
Not to mention that MSU Venom Spam is basically a hard counter for nids

>>51883565
>I can't just delete any unit I want from the table, that means shooting is underpowered
Found the Tau player.

>>51883566
What exactly is your point? Everyone that isn't a delusional Guardfag is aware that IG are more powerful than DEldar.

Shooting does, in general, need toned down, but you picked a pair of really stupid examples here.

>>51883577

Where did I say shooting is underpowered you dumb cunt? I said that there has to be the ability to shoot terminators to remove them, and so we can't just jerk off over terminators and make them invincible.

I think termies should have better BS and WS, they are best warriors in chapter after all and only difference between them and some random tatical is +1A.
2+ 5++ is ok, most weapons can be taken on 2+ and anti tank weapons that deals with armour you can still take on 5+.

>>51883559
>>I'm not really sure how you're poor access to weapon bits is at all relevant to the discussion or why you're bringing it up.
I will speak for him and say we guard have 2 options.

buy shitty 5 man command squads boxes for meltas and plasmaguns

or constantly search bits boxes at FLGS hopping for the scraps of whatever marine players toss out.

Or we buy tanks.

>>51883594
>I said that there has to be the ability to shoot terminators to remove them
>Boohoo I want to point and kill any unit I want

>>51883559
it's an implication that lasguns are unreliable, i know damn well that massed fire will down shit, but I've been on the receiving end of it and the giving end, and I've had times where I quite literally rolled off 30+ saves and only lost 1 or 2 MEQ in the process, personally I don't mind it too much since I play blob guard, but losing access to cheap AP2 in the form of plasma or melta would hurt that much more


>I'm not really sure how you're poor access to weapon bits is at all relevant to the discussion or why you're bringing it up.
ever play at a place that forces WYSIWYG?
That's why. I have to find a new store.

>>51883602
Same could be said for Honor Guard Marines. They're the best melee fighters in the entire chapter and the personal guard of the fucking Chapter Master, yet they aren't better in melee combat than a fucking Scout.

>>51883614
Sure, it sucks. Tons of armies have that problem (have fun with those combi-weapon, Chaos Terminator-fags).

It's completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. He's just trying to cover his ass since he fucked up big by pretended mass lasfire wasn't effective.

>>51882878

yea but it's probably not a great idea. Marneus used to be KINDA worth his points because he buffed your army so much but now he's just a beatstick. If you want a bunch of st 8 ap 2 attacks just buy a squad of hammernators for 50 pts less.

>>51883325
Footslogging was never good.

Tyranids got fucked by running and rolling for assaults. When you had to have fleet to get your 6+D6 move and leaping gave you a 12" assault tyranids were fairly mobile compared to other footlogging armies. Now everyone moves 6+D6 and can assault up to 12", leaping doesn't get you an extra assault range at.

So spamming hormagaunts to quickly tie shit up in assault doesn't exist, leaping CC warriors don't exist, gaunts aren't faster than normal troops for the first time ever and also all the other things that hurt assault apply.

Coupled with garbage tier guns that are short range, low strength, low AP, have no special rules and are almost all shot at BS3 and bad armor saves, no invulnerable saves and every unit being at least 30% overcosted and tyranids got the short end of every type of stick.

>>51883602
Terminator armour could just be +1 wound and 2+/4++.

And they really need to be more liberal with higher ws and bs in the space marine codex.

>>51883623
Personally all Vets should be WS5/BS5
Including (I'm sure I'm missing some):
>Chosen
>Deathwing
>Deathwatch
>Grey Knight Terminators & Paladins

>>51883641
>Footslogging was never good.
2nd Ed

>>51883650
>veterans still only have BS or WS 4
>only have 1 point extra leadership and 1 more attack
I know sternguard are pretty great but how could they make Vanguard more viable?

>>51883616
Yes, sometimes dice are hot, sometimes they're cold. Doesn't make mass lasfire any less effective.

You might miss all of your shots with a BS4 plasma gun. Doesn't make that Plasma Gun any less effective at dealing with MEQ's or TEQ's.

>>51883615

Alright, fine, terminators can't be killed ever because ever suggesting something might be able to shoot at terminators and actually kill them is just expecting too much.

Marine players, ladies and gentlemen. Where "I want to be objectively better" is listened to.

>>51883569
>>leafblower-wannabes and parking lots are boring as shit to play against.

I have never once had my tanks stay stationary for a game. Everyone moves forward, and I agree parking lots are shit.

I however spam sentinels and plasma vet chimeras with tanks as my heavy anti-armor. My leman russes are the only thing I use regularly that can even hope to scratch land-raiders and other fucking unkillable marine shit.

>>51882722
...downward spiral of depression, plagued by bittersweet memories of the biker lists that were. They sit on many an ork player's shelf, dusty and unloved. Once the awe-inspiring centrepiece of a meticulously converted army, now a liability, deemed unworthy of a place on the tabletop. Their dead, plastic eyes fixated jealously on the mek gunz that took their place, filled with a longing to hear the rattle of dice, feel the warmth of their maker's hand pushing them into base contact with the enemy, a desire to waaagh again.
And yet the waaagh never comes. Not now, not ever.

>>51883495
Tyranids.

Daemons have only 1 ap1 weapon, even their D weapons are "only" ap2.
Orks only have 1 ranged ap1 weapon and then it's just the naut klaw.
Grey knights dont have ap1 outside techmarine meltas.

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Rate my ork list! I tried to keep it as fluffy as possible.

>>51883661
Unfuck the core rules. Vanguard are already one of the most viable assault MEQ units thanks to their weapon pricing and formation support.

>>51883641
Don't forget close combat monstrous creatures with WS3 and 3 attacks that will lose a fist fight to a tactical squad.

>>51883661
>make Vanguard more viable?
Making melee weapons cheaper (across the board.)
5pt Power Weapons
7pt Lighnting Claws
10-15pt Power Fists

And then give Vanguards the special rule:
>A Fine Addition to My Collection
Models with this special rule purchase Melee Weapons at half price (Round up)

>>51883672
See, guys, he isn't the leafblower-wannabe fags that ruined the IG playerbase. He moves his Vetmeras forward 6" a turn.

>>51883670
>unit is described at taking an in-proportionate amount of firepower to kill
>"Why shouldn't there just a be a built in counter unit, Duh?"
Tau players, Ladies and Gentlemen. Because why shoot it if it doesn't die in one turn?

>>51883672
>land-raiders
>unkillable marine shit
AHAHAHA
that's why all competitive Marine lists run 3 LRs, right? A fucking invisible Eldar Deathstar is more unkillable than anything in the Marine Codex, go fuck yourself.

>>51883678
>Grey knights dont have ap1 outside techmarine meltas.
Or Dreadnoughts, or Land Raiders, or Storm Ravens

NOT that those are viable choices for AP1 for GKs (or Space Marines, because remember GKs Dreadnoughts are 25pts more and can't take a Drop Pod)

Or Vortex of Doom, but 1/6 chance yo

>>51883697
>135 points for 15 Power Fist attacks on the charge on Jump Packs
Whew, this sounds spicy.

>>51883719
40k is such shit.

>>51883678
Discipline of Change has Prismatic Gaze which is AP1.

Tyranids really suffer here. The way that tyranids get through 2+ armor is assault. Take away that ability and you have Carnifex getting locked in against bigs, which should never happen.

>>51882617
I think it should be a walker, along with the Ta'Unar purely from the standing that they're no longer single-pilot suits, and they don't have the skull jack for control. Its written right in the Stormsurge's entry that it isn't piloted by Shas'ui and doesn't accrue the same honour for its pilots as they don't don the Hero's Mantle.

>>51883719

Yeah, everyone who actually wants game balance and not just marinewank are tau players.

SPOILER: I play Dark Angels, senpai.

If we're going to balance the entire game by fluff, grey knights win everything forever the end go away.

>>51883719
Not disagreeing that calling Land Raiders unkillable is retarded, but Marines can make some incredibly mean deathstars. Smash-fucker and his ilk for example.

>>51881661
I wish Forgeworld would release exactly this as his model. It's just perfect.

>>51883735
I also forgot: Exalted flamers have an AP1 shot.

>>51883641
>having low ap guns is now bad
>nidplayers
:^)

>>51883641
Thanks robin "I don't understand tyranids" cruddace.

>>51883589
what I am getting at is nerfing my ordnance kills any hope I have at killing terminators, landraider, grotesques, riptides, knights, psyker invuln spam and bikes.

My Bs 3 lasguns are in no way sufficient to handle these things and neither can I rely on the rest of my forces to either.

If you want to remove my ordnance I need something in return like twin-linked vanquishers and hotshot lasguns for vets, if I ever want to not have my shit kicked in.

>>51883662
what i'm saying is that I want to retain my melta and plasma in my guard ranks so I can have something much more reliable when I find myself on the other end of bolters, I don't expect guard squads to 1v1 muhreens ever. But I don't want the only reliable way to remove TEQ to be massed lasfire, I would gladly pay more for high STR low AP if they unfucked the system in general, but that doesn't seem it's going to happen anytime soon.

>>51883672
>even paying Land Raiders attention
>>unkillable

A single Immobilize result makes the entire Land Raider a complete waste of points. Even being hit by a Crew Stunned makes them all but useless. I've never had any of my Land Raiders kill more than 150 points worth of models and I don't remember the last time anything charged out of one because they always either explode or can't move for 3 turns.

>>51883762
Why are you concerned about killing terminators. No one plays terminators. They're awful.

>>51883776
TEQs not just terminators, alongside MCs

>>51883759
>kills any hope I have at killing terminators
Stop taking ten-man vet squads and complaining their lasfire doesn't kill anything. Equal points of guardsmen will kill equal points in terminators as long as the guardsmen get FRFSRF or Rapid-Fire range.
>2017
>pretending that Land Raiders are good or difficult to kill
This is an elaborate troll, right? There's no way you're actually this delusional.

>>51883730
>T4 3+ Unit that can't take a transport
still balanced.

>>51883745
>marinewank
>actually performing according to fluff and not fielding half a fucking company in a 1250 points game

>>51883747
> Marines can make some incredibly mean deathstars
>Names 1 (ONE) example that is 200 points of gear stacked onto a single IC

>>51883762
>reliable way to remove TEQ
THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT
IT'S A FUCKING TERMIANTOR
THERE. SHOULD. NOT. BE. A FUCKING REALIABLE WAY THAT IS WORTH THE POINTS.
THEY'RE THE THING THAT HAS LOW OFFENSE BUT HIGH DEFENSE AND YOUR TACTICAL CONSIDERATION IS IGNORING THEM AND LETTING THEM ACHIEVE THEIR OBJECTIVE OR WASTING FIREPOWER ON THEM JESUS
THIS IS NOT ROCK PAPER SCISSORS AND NOT EVERY UNIT NEEDS A COUNTER

>>51883730
>I1, so even Orks hit them first
>T4, 3+ AS

Hope you're charging a vehicle.

But makes them a valid choice

Right now they're 22ppm.
For +3pts you get Honor Guard. Who have a 2+, and Power Weapons.

>>51883753
>I also forgot: Exalted flamers have an AP1 shot.
?

They have a s5 ap3 torrent flamer and a d3 shot lascannon, no ap1.

>>51883679
Why have you done this.

>>51883316
They were built to withstand the heat given off by the plasma reactors. The plasma itself would melt the termi suits no problem though.

Do many people field flyers in a typical 500pt game? what should I be on the look out for as a new player?

>>51883772
why can you get +1 or +2 on the vehicle damage table but you can't get -1 or -2 on it?

i think that would be a simple fix.

>>51883804
I named Smashfucker because he's an example. You can literally plug a Librarian Conclave into pretty much any other unit and immediately gain an unkillable psychic deathstar.

>>51883679
What are you even planning to do with the nob squads?
NEVER mix special weapons, go all rokkits or all skorchas.
The second squad can't even charge out of the drop pod so they're just stuck on their own looking stupid.

>>51883814
Oh shit would you look at that. I'm wrong, my bad! I swore it was S9AP1.

>>51883804
>[autistic screeching]

Terminators are going to be shit until GW fixes this trash in general, as long as shit like Riptides, 2+ re-rolling and Wraithknights exist, the only options are to spam high STR and AP units.

>>51883835
don't play people who use flyers in a 500 point game, unless it's a for fun game of nothing but flyers

I'm starting a blood angels force I'm planning on getting the start collecting box and the death company strike force and an assault squad and a furioso

Are there any other must have blood angel units?

>>51883434
That's the guard players fault for spamming vets and chimeras, instead of glorious conscripts.

>>51883835
>Do many people field flyers in a typical 500pt game?
No. In my experience, Flyers are pretty rare even at higher point values.

>what should I be on the look out for as a new player?
For 500 points? Single models that take up more than 150 points. Biker spam. High armor value vehicles.

>>51883637
while you could argue that I picked the wrong army, I still don't want to be forced to field 20 times the number of models my opponent has to have a chance to kill him.

I already have 70 guardsmen and while they can be effective at times I still can't kill some things with lasgun fire, that then necessitates my having plasma/melta guns and even then I still have to get unreasonably close to use them.

For instance how am I supposed to counter tau cheese shit if he hides his pathfinders and his stupid fucking suits can wipe my guardsmen and chimeras before I can even get in range?

For shit like that I need ordnance to wipe out sources of marker lights and to insta death his jump suits before they jump away from my lasguns.

>>51883835
Almost every army has the capability to field one or more flyers at 500 points, so it can happen.

>>51883877
>you could argue that I picked the wrong army

You picked the wrong army

>>51883835
Fliers are roughly 100-200p and they can come in on turn 2 onwards.
That's 20-40% of their points on a unit that misses at least one turn and probably have to either compromise on shooting less optimal targets or flying out of the battlefield at least once in the game, so it will miss another turn. Also fliers can't capture objectives. Play towards the mission objectives and try to ignore any fliers.

tl;dr don't worry too much about them and definetily don't try to focus them down.

>>51883887
This. This strat is how you beat most fliers. Minimizing the impact of a strong model is nearly as good as killing it and you still get to gun down the rest.

>>51883866
>tfw it's not legal to take nothing but conscripts yet
god fucking dammit why

>>51883877
this, it almost forces a mono-build, which isn't fun for anyone

>>51883877
>you could argue that I picked the wrong army
You picked the wrong army.

>I still don't want to be forced to field 20 times the number of models my opponent has to have a chance to kill him.
Massive exaggeration. Pick a different army.

>I already have 70 guardsmen
Is that supposed to be a noteworthy amount? That seems like a good base number for two platoons (minus any SWS or HWS).

> I still can't kill some things with lasgun fire
Those things aren't terminators or marines, which is the only point that I've been disagreeing with you on. I don't disagree that nerfing all high-strength low-ap weapons is stupid, I just disagree with you lying about the efficacy of lasfire.

>Tau cheese
Don't play him, ask him to tone it down, or offer houserules to fix the issue.

>>51883877

>while you could argue that I picked the wrong army

>I don't like fielding 20 times the number of models my opponent has
>picks IG

senpai i would do more than argue that you picked the wrong army

>>51883947
he doesn't understand the joy of conscript spam yet
we must teach him

>>51883700
>>See, guys, he isn't the leafblower-wannabe fags that ruined the IG playerbase. He moves his Vetmeras forward 6" a turn.
They normally move 12 until I get to an objective or I'm immobilized because apparently dozer blades are mandatory for not rolling a one.

I mean am I the only guy that has never rolled a 1 on dangerous terrain with dozer blades but always roll 1 when I forget to buy dozer blades?

>>51883969
>I mean am I the only guy that has never rolled a 1 on dangerous terrain with dozer blades but always roll 1 when I forget to buy dozer blades?
right here

>tfw want to play grey knights
>tfw only play 1k games

why must life be suffering

>>51883969
>I mean am I the only guy that has never rolled a 1 on dangerous terrain with dozer blades but always roll 1 when I forget to buy dozer blades?
No, because that's a retarded idea and you should feel bad for even thinking that it might not be a retarded idea.

>>51883977
Don't be a wuss, guy at my store plays them and 850 is the standard here.

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Why the fuck do deffkoptas have 2 wounds?

Fluff wise, what are tactical objectives and what does it mean to capture them?

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I think I'm mostly sorted with this list, but I'm wondering about a couple things. Firstly, should I change the Knight into a single-gun variant to be able to take a third Dragoon, and maybe a Serpenta for them to mark their target? I'm also a bit concerned about the Hoplites being blown apart before they reach their target. Would it just be playing smart to keep them out of trouble? I assume any tank commander would have a fit seeing a wall of Haywire walking towards them.

>>51883977
What's the issue there? That's pretty much the sweet spot for Grey Knights. Enough points to bring some your toys, but not enough to get completely dog-piled by everybody else's toys.

>>51883719
>>that's why all competitive Marine lists run 3 LRs, right? A fucking invisible Eldar Deathstar is more unkillable than anything in the Marine Codex, go fuck yourself.

That is why I mention psyker bullshit too. That and the number of time I have run into fucking chapter master smashfuck and his unkillable deathstar ilk is just sad.

Maybe I wouldn't need to rely on tanks for templates if I didn't need 50 conscripts, a priest and a commissar to deal with every fucking deathstar in the damn game.

At least make GW go back to selling guardsmen in 20 man packs for $26 if you are going to fuck my armies ordnance.

>>51881632
So what changes do you want to see in 8ed?

I want

1. Several vehicle damage tables. Why is a Land Raider and a Rhino rolling on the same table?
2. Nerf Grav weapons.
3. Jink is 5+ for bikes, skimmers and 4+ for Jetbikes.
4. A formation vault where GW stores all formations for anyone to download for free.
5. Stormbolter 3 shots.
6. You choose what spells you want in the psychic phase. But you pay for them.

I think that's it. 7ed is good, its just a bit unbalanced and bloated.

>>51884029
>20 guardsmen for 30$
never again, just double the prices and half the amount of models
first guardsmen then stormtroopers

>>51884004
because its a nob riding it.

>>51884040
halve*

>>51884003
>>51884027

Everything good in GKs is 200+ points. It's hard enough to make something LEGAL, let alone good.

>>51884030
remove D from anything but apoc
make 2+ saves unmodifiable
make riptides, stormsurges, wraithknights etc, walkers
choose psychic spells
drastically reduce the amount of spells in the game
reduce formations
allow assault from deep strike
make charge distance a choice between 6 inches by default or 2d6 random

i dunno, some form of this would be a nice start

>>51884051
A nob with S3 and I2?
I thought about modelling them with 2 riders like an attack bike, but they have A2 like a single ork.

>>51882698
Eldar titans rely on twins. Considering their birthrate is practically 0 for single children, let alone twins each loss is catastrophic

>>51883772
>>51883802
The main reason I hate land raiders is because of assault phase. I have had those bastards roll up and drop assault troops on my guardsmen who then spend maybe a turn of melee wiping out my infantry and if I lose combat because I can't afford every squad to have a priest and commissar boom they catch and kill my entire 20 man squad.

>>51884098
>unmodifiable
No saves are modifiable.

>>51884137
you know what I mean, no re-rolls or the such
I don't know man i'm fucking sick of 2+ re-rolling

>>51884137
which is a mistake

>>51884030
A couple of things off the top of my head, some rules and some subjective to me

-Make MCs more vulnerable, give them a damage chart or a weakening system. MAKE SURE TO LET A NORMAL HUMAN HANDLE THE TYRANID CODEX
-Stop making so many similar special rules. Bladestorm for example is practically Rend, so why is it its own rule. If you must insist on differentiating them, don't bury variants in codices, put it in the BRB (Rend, Rending(+vehicles) etc.)
-Either make all armies point efficient or none of them; this disparity is the simplest path to cheese. GW need to settle on what bloody scale they want to play at
-Ease off on formations, or at least their special rules. I don't mind alternate FoCs since they can help tailor the style of play you want
-This is a personal thing, but I want more customisation for units in general. More ways to make an army yours in crunch terms. I've mentioned build-your-own-heroes here previously.
-Do something with assault. Melee units can't compete with dedicated shooting, and even transports are practically a bandaid for that now.

Feel free to pick at any of this, I'm jus' spitballing.

>>51884115
Only wraithknights needs twins, titans can be piloted by random eldar.

>>51884056
Lib (PM3), Liber, Stormbolter
>165

Terminators
>165

That's 330 and tax is done.

Dummy list I threw together was that as Core
(Nemesis Dreadknight, Hammer, Psycannon, PT)×2
Kaldor Dragio

You still have 25pts left for upgrades.

Can obviously sub out the NDK or Dragio for other toys

>>51883802
>>Stop taking ten-man vet squads and complaining their lasfire doesn't kill anything.

Normally I have a 25 man platoon for every 10 man vet squad I use but that still won't like me win in assault phases and against dedicated assault troops with transports I can rely on my infantry to kill it before it makes a charge like tau can. I need to be able to blast apart transports before they can drop troops on my head.

And on that note god do drop pods with salamander flamer spam fuck my infantry up.

How much would you spend on second hand 200 tyranid gribbly models?

>>51884150
>you know what I mean
No, /tg/ begin shit at expressing itself and knowing rules it could as easily mean Ignore AP, AoS Style Rend or what you said.

>>51884199
AOS style rend?

>>51884150
That's why everyone in my area plays ITC rules.

>>51884122
The absolute cheapest you can do that for is 310 points for a Land Raider Redeemer with a 5-man Assault Squad and a 5-man Assault Squad is not gonna kill anything. The "optimal" thing to use them for is to deliver Hammernators, which then cranks that up to 445 points. The amount of firepower you can get for that is more than enough to take down the Land Raider before it even reaches anywhere near your guys and even if it does you'll have enough shooting to kill the Terminators once they unloaded since they'll most likely kill any small unit immediately, leaving them out in the open.

Hell, I've had a Hammernator squad killed after making back only around 90 points by the same Guardsmen they killed against my DKoK friend just because of the sheer amount of shots and only needing to fail a single 2+ save in order to take out one of them.

If you face a Land Raider with assault guys in it, literally walk away. He can't chase both ends of the table with it, unless he unloads, which means the Assault unit dies to shooting and the Land Raider is a brick that maybe kills a handful of infantry units.

>>51884201
Rend in AOS is a reduction in Save

So if you have a 3+ Save and was Wounded with an attack with Rend -1
You save on a 4+

>>51884227
Interesting, how is it in practice? If you know.

>>51884030
Formations need to have actual rational restrictions placed on them so you can't take random formations of whatever as your primary detachment, call a riptide or flyer your warlord and still have a legal army.

Grav weapons get way, way too many shots, they need to go ahead and make them 1/2 and 2/3 for guns and cannons respectively.

Make tau and eldar monstrous/gargantuan creatures which are canonically vehicles into vehicles, instead of monstrous creatures, because they are neither monstrous or creatures.

Remove random psychic power tables, they're dumb, you should just point buy the powers you want.

>>51884241
No idea. I never really played AOS. Just read the rules when it came out

>>51883947
>>51883884


Don't get my wrong I would love to run more infantry but at this point I find that I can either spend $26*6 to get a platoon of 50 concripts, a command squad and a commissar or I can spend $50 on a leman russ and achieve the same effect.

Make GW sell guardsmen at 30 for $20 and watch as I amass enough infantry to cover my deployment zone.

>>51884175

>7 terminators and a NDK
>1k points

Literally one turn for a solid 80% of armies to completely table that.

>>51884241
It was interesting in fantasy, having it as a set value rather than S based makes it easier.

>>51884030
BE ABLE TO PICK A WARLORD TRAIT
FUCK

>>51883941
>>Those things aren't terminators or marines, which is the only point that I've been disagreeing with you on. I don't disagree that nerfing all high-strength low-ap weapons is stupid, I just disagree with you lying about the efficacy of lasfire.

typical tacticals sure and base terminators, sure they can be killed but then there is also normally a librarian or a some artifact/formation that gives FNP and now my flashlights might as well be thrown at the enemy for all the good it will do me.

3rd edition is best edition. Everyone had up to date codex.

By no ways perfect but at least there was some variation.

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>>51884284
>outflanking hellhounds

>>51883952
See this >>51884040,>>51884267

I can't afford conscript spam

>>51884256
wraithlords are not vehicles.

wraithbone is like flesh.

>>51884284
Rolling on tables for crap for what your units do should stop. It's not fun, or interesting, it's just annoying. You can't design lists for synergy with certain psychic powers or warlord traits if you have to randomly determine what your rules are going to be at the start of the game and 75% of the time the traits you get are worthless.

I don't understand why GW thought eliminating player choice in favor of randomly determining things was somehow fun. Maybe they thought it would distract attention away from the fact that certain traits and powers are objectively better than others.

>>51882053
Old school ultramarine poster, you are quickly becoming gayer than nightlord music poster.

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>>51883531
>Tfw monster mash pattern plasma guns

>>51884333
Did I say wraithlords are vehicles? I said "eldar monstrous creatures which are canonically vehicles" is the wraithlord one of those?

>>51884328
>outflanking Baneblades

reminds me, fuck GW for getting rid of Creeds special rule
fuck them for the 6ed IG dex in general

>>51884328
Biker troops, enhanced reserves, extra badass fighter ect.

Makes perfect sense to make it a trait to build a list around.

Also putts various armies more into line, instead of say marines getting bikers by a captain on a bike while orks have to buy a pre-made forgeworld character.

>>51884318
This is a fact.

>>51884276
>7 Terminators and TWO NDKs

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62KB, 570x494px

Honest question, why do people get so mad about riptides?

They're very survivable, but every game I've ever seen featuring them they just sort of buzz around and consistently fail to put down any actual threat outside of direct hit overcharged Ion Accelerator blasts, which come like twice a game.

>>51884333
>wraithbone is like flesh
Wave Serpents are made of wraithbone

MC Wave Serpents when?

>>51884309
>every marine unit comes with a buffing psyker

>>51884328
>guaranteed preferred enemy on your plasma-cutioner

>>51884354
>The Compensator pattern plasma gun

>>51884030
- Allow charging from ANY transport that's not a Drop Pod
- set charge distance
- major rebalancing across the board (MCs/Gargantuan Creatures, Grav, Jink, fixing stuff like all of the Orks and Tyranids, useless units like Land Raiders etc.)
- disallow Super Heavies and other Knight-equivalents from "normal" games
- less AP 2/1 weapons
- reworked ally system
- make Psychic less of a random, convoluted mess
- make assaults more fluid and less tarpit (Elite units designed to accompany HQs into melee shouldn't only hit Gretchin and Gaunts on a 3+)
- remove and rework a number of Formations
- give sub-factions variety of FoCs, like Angels of Death and Traitor Legions but for every army where it's possible; make Formations primarily sub-faction specific to be used as core or auxiliary choices for their FoC instead of the generic option
- add a better wound save system to properly represent near-unbreakable things like Terminators and equally heavily armored units
- make standard CCWs for assault units actually do something (Chainswords and similar things literally hurting as much as punching someone with the butt of their Boltgun)
- give an actual benefit to using 2 non-Specialist CCWs instead of CCW+Pistol

>>51884446
>- reworked ally system
how so?

>>51884473
Burn it.

Fuck ally system its cancer.

>>51884473
Tau + Eldar and the likes working together so easily is dumb.

>>51884446
As a shorty player I'd love a set charge distance. Then I could always move my units to be juuuust out of charge range next turn.

>>51884446
>Open Topped vehicles now even more useless
>Good
>Good
>Good
>Good
>Good
>No (Yeah I have invis every fight)
>Needs to be carefully adjusted
>Yes
>Yes
>Ehhhhh, now we're back into OP Garg territory again that you wanted adjusted on point 3
>Agree but only if armour is properly available for units as well
>No.

>>51884519
Shooty players have a more predictable way of kiting.
Assault players don't fail 3" charges anymore.

Everyone is happy.

>>51884519
Set = 6+D6.

>>51884425
But WS have pilot.

>>51884473
>>51884490
Most people I know ignore it anyways, because the only time it would matter is in team games.