/5eg/ D&D Fifth Edition General: Baby Monster Edition

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>>51860096
Your fat momma raised a Troll, can she offer any advice?

My players once raised a stirge and tricked a god with it.

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How broken does this sound? Assume no multiclassing shenanigans allowed.

>Rogue Church Agent archetype

>Level 3-
Arcane Trickster spellcasting, however using WIS instead of INT and uses Cleric spell list with a few changes below
Cantrips changed to
>At 1st level, You learn three cantrips of your choice from the Cleric spell list. You learn another Cleric cantrip of your choice at 10th level.
Removes the "you must choose from the enchantment and illusion spells" clause (Namely because there is 0 Cleric level 1 illusion spells)

Church Agent: Divine Sect
When you select this tradition at 3rd level, pick a divine domain from your chosen deity’s list of eligible domains. You gain your chosen domain’s 1st-level benefits. However, you do not gain any weapon or armor proficiencies from your domain.

Beginning when you select this tradition at 3rd level, whenever you gain a Rogue level, you can choose to replace one of the Cleric spells you know with a cleric domain spell for your chosen domain. The spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

>Level 9
Church Agent: Sect Agent
At 9th level, you gain your chosen domain’s 6th-level benefits.

>Level 13
Church Agent: Sect Priest
At 13th level, you gain your chosen domain’s 8th-level benefits.

>Level 17
Church Agent: Sect High Priest
At 17th level, you gain your chosen domain’s 17th level benefits.


More or less it's Theurge on something that's not a fucking Wizard.

Am I reading it right that 5e Tensirs floating disc can only move by moving away from it? Is it possible to slide it around by pushing it yourself?

>>51860157
>My players once raised a stirge and tricked a god with it.

HAHA LOL

I bet that is one amazing story where you got a nat20 on persuasion, and as a result you convinced a god who has hundreds of thousands of years of experience in life that a shitty giant mosquito was actually an elder dragon. How? Because you rolled a natural 20. That means you INSTANTLY SUCCEED at whatever the fuck you want to do, right? I fucking love that shit. Hey wait a minute, why not switch D&D to a d10 mechanic? Then you can do this kind of insane shit 10% of the time instead of 5%. But remember, if you roll a natural 20, that means you INSTANTLY succeed at whatever the fuck you want, because that's what happens on Critical Role, and everybody fucking loves that show, right? Masterpiece theater. Only an evil anti-fun grognard wouldn't love the fuck out of that. And if you don't do this, you're a bad DM. I mean come on, he rolled a NATURAL 20. SAY IT WITH ME. NATuRAL TWENTY.

That only happens once out of every TWENTY times so it is truly a special occasion. Convincing a fucking demon to give you a blowjob while handing over the MacGuffin is sure a hell of a lot funnier than fighting him. And that's the point of RPGs, right? Nothing else matters except having fun. Fun is the only part that matters. As long as you and your group are laughing and having a good time, that is the best D&D campaign ever. And you should totally post about it here so we can all read about the amazing feat you accomplished in D&D. Awesome.

>>51860177
How about:
Feat: Specialization - Choose one skill, you gain double proficiency bonus and +1 to that Attribute

then add that to a Cleric with Stealth.
And spare us yet another bad new Homebrew Archetype.

Or better yet, a Rogue with Magic Initiate: Cleric

>>51860245
That's not even close to the same thing.

>>51860243
Actually he rolled 6 Natural 20's in succession.
In his Nevarr-Hapin campaign setting.

>>51860243
>Fun is the only part that matters.
I mean... Yes?

>>51860264
Yes, yours is a bad Dan Brown movle character with phenomenal cleric powers.

How many religions are going to maintain a cadre of rogues? There's a domain for that for a reason, or maybe you can make up a "Thievery Domain" for Cleric instead.

this is just bad though.

>>51860282
You are 100% right, anon. The only purpose of playing D&D is to get together with your friends and have fun creating the most ridiculous natural 20 scenario possible. Kind of like when you and your mates get together after a hard week of taking care of your wife's son, so that you can put on some indie pop and drink some microbrews and play Cards Against Humanity. And D&D is kind of like that, right? The entire point is to fill your small apartment with autistic laughter. Hey, maybe you should start your own RPG stream and put it on YouTube with a Patreon! I bet people will send you random donations when they watch your super-epic latest nat20 instance where a guy gets a nat20 on his arrow roll and that means he instantly kills the main boss. Anything else would be anti-fun, right? I mean, those monsters have so much HP and combat is kind of boring, right? Who cares if you're completely raping any chance of creating a coherent story, as long as you're having fun, right?

>>51860352
You seem super butthurt about this type of story, what's your backstory?

>>51860352
You're really mad about this and it's funny.

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>>51860333
>How many religions are going to maintain a cadre of rogues?

Churches having sneaky fuckers is rather common in fiction, even moreso if said religion is also the government in a theocracy. Not every situation the church wants dealt with can be done so with Paladins yelling DEUS VULT memes.

>>51860370
Merely sick of the "argument" of pro-fun being used to excuse fucking up campaigns. And the absolute fetishization of the natural 20 that has become intolerable in recent years.

>>51860243
Actually no. They just used the stirge's ability to suck blood, pass without trace and greater invisibility to let it substitute some corpses blood for theirs in a blood magic ritual. No natural 20s were rolled, but pass without trace did let them exploit bounded accuracy on skill checks.

It took about 4 sessions of raising the stirge and half a session playing that specific course of actions out.

Any more conplaints autismo?

Strength - 11
Dexterity- 12
Constitution- 12
Intelligence- 15
Wisdom- 11
Charisma- 12

Are those good for a wizard? If I pick high elf my Int becomes 16 and it'll be 18 at level 4. If anyone else has suggestions on how to do this point buy thing with a wizard I'd be glad to hear them, I've never used it before.

>>51860333
Thematically can be argued either way, I'm talking mechanically. Is it stupidly OP to put the second most OP UA onto a non-wizard class?

>>51860352
But you're overlooking the fact that he rolled a reality-altering Natural 20.
That's like getting a reach around from Aladdin's genie while drinking from the Holy Grail.

That God never stood a chance!

>>51860385
The only person fetishizing anything in this thread is you.

>>51860385
If their playgroup doesn't mind it, why do you care so much?

>>51860403
It's already three times as good as Arcane Trickster, I think you already know the answer.

>>51860386
Nah, except that you spelled "complaints" wrong. You probably just hit the wrong key though.

> but pass without trace did let them exploit bounded accuracy on skill checks.

Then fuck bounded accuracy. It's a great concept but it's the worst part of this edition. People throw it around as a buzzword to make it seem like D&D actually has intelligent game mechanics now, but in reality the concept of bounded accuracy is very poorly-executed in 5e.

Good story though, I actually like that. It's clever.

>>51860430
>It's already three times as good as something not that great
uh ok.

In that case what about just leaving AT as is (Including Mage Hand) and just slapping on Cleric spells/cantrips/spellcasting mod instead of Wizard?

>>51860407
>you can only talk about what has already been mentioned in this particular 5e thread

Well, that's a mathematical way to prevent any conversation whatsoever. I am talking about the general D&D culture, numbnuts. Haven't noticed it? My words do not apply to you.

>>51860423
Well, hmm, say a bunch of parents start teaching their kids to bite. You're like, well hmm okay, that's their house not mine, none of my business. So you let it go. Then one day you have kids, and by then, biting is the norm, so they start biting you. And yeah you tell them no, fucking stop that shit you little fuck. But everyone else in their life system tells them it's okay to bite, so who are they going to listen to?

>>51860383
>Churches having sneaky fuckers is rather common in fiction, even moreso if said religion is also the government in a theocracy.

Yes, but unless said God is the God of Shadows or Trickery or whatever, these are stealthy agents, not caster-rogues.

In the former case, they are domain priests with access to divine magics that allow for roguelike activity, not thief acrobat-ninja spellcasters.

Hardly matters, the archetype is clearly wildly OP.

>>51860465
You are so fucking petty it's ridiculous.

It's like a damn homebrew ruleset. If a DM says "Nat 20 doesn't do anything out of combat" and a player throws a fit, that's not an issue with the Nat 20 idea, it's an issue with the player being a whiny little shit.

Would 5e's ruleset work in a video game ala the Infinity Engine DnDs?

>>51860449
>The Cleric Spell list
is not equivalent to
>Illusion and Enchantments, and the occasional whatever Wizard spell

>>51860496
No. 4es would though.

>>51860486
No, fagwit, it's an issue with the entire shift in gaming culture. And Wizards of the Coast, with its fervent greed-driven attempts to pander to a wider market, have slaughtered their loyal fanbase on the altar of quick cash. 5th Edition is the beginning of a new era in roleplaying games. I understand that the kind of person I am talking about might be you yourself so it will require a bit of self-awareness that you likely lack seeing as you didn't play any previous editions of D&D so you don't know what that culture was like. However I recently saw a poll showing that many 5e players started with 3.5, which admittedly contained much of the cancer that started to destroy D&D, so perhaps my rising hope that some people here understand, was for naught.

But let me just tell you something: you fucking idiots have destroyed this game. I run games at an FLGS and have been for the past ten years. I get complimented on my DMing all the time, but I do it through gritted teeth. You fucking morons saw Cards Against Humanity and all these other fuck-ass party games, and decided that that atmosphere was the desirable end-result of all games, including D&D, which has been hijacked and turned into a shitshow of epic proportions. Yes, I can continue to play with the group I currently have, but you people have invaded, diluted, and all-but-irreverisbly fucked up the D&D community into some twisted parody of what it once was. Then you shout "grognard" without knowing what the word even means, with the non-argument that, so long as it's fun, it's good. Well you can have fun with an orgy, but if you all pull out your dicks and start wanking during a D&D session, you are being an asshole to that guy who expected to play D&D. Except you don't understand this because you have never known any way except the asperger-fueled hysterical laughter Crit-Role bullshit you think makes up D&D's entire history.

>>51860496
I can see it working.
>>51860509
Yet every single fucking video game that tried, failed, probably because they tried to do everything but going the SRPG route.


For real, it still baffles my mind that 3e got some pretty damn cool games based on it's system while they never even tried going the obvious route with 4e.

>>51860572
holy shit dude

chill

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>>51860572
It's like he's channeling the powerful spirits of the mighty autists of lore.
I don't know whether to clap or offer him a 1-800 help line.

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>>51860572

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>>51860383
>>51860478
>>51860177
Didn't inquisitors work undercover?
Also I wouldn't mind an arcane trickster variant which had cleric spells, but gaining domain features seems retarded.

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>>51860096

What would be a cool magical weapon to give to my party Barbarian now that she's all grown up (level 4)? She mentioned in her backstory that she's trying to become faster and more agile to overcome her nemesis.

>>51860572
Seen this bait before. Try something new please.

>>51860572
Could you get a trip so I could filter you?

>>51860648
>Didn't inquisitors work undercover?
Sure, but when you can actually use diety-powers and Zone of Truth people and whatnot, you aren't actually an Inquisitor.
And they typically didn't sneak in through people's windows in any case.

>>51860572
I'm kinda impressed how much anger you have for this subject. Carry on being angry I guess.

>>51860650
I don't think there's any WEAPON that can improve speed or dex, but there are Boots Of Speed that can double one's moving speed for up to ten minutes per day, and also impose disadvantage on opportunity attack rolls made against the wearer during that duration, so it'd be a good start.

>>51860650

Javelin of Lightning

>>51860650
+1 Throwing Anus.
http://oglaf.wikia.com/wiki/Throwing_Anus

>>51860243
>natural 20

Nothing says EPIC. FUCKING. WIN. like a nat 20 story

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>>51860650

>>51860676
The main reason I decided to copy Theurge is just so your agent could be more like your god of choice, however getting it's features in addition to spellcasting is too much I agree.

What about, in a different direction,
>You ONLY get your Divine Domain abilities and three Cantrips, if a Divine Domain would give you a spell you can only cast it once/long rest

That way you can still have a lot of choice in direction however won't also be slinging spells like a full Cleric.

>>51860440
Then go play an unchained game

So I only ask my players to roll when the task is possible, and nontrivial. When they get a natural 20, they succeed in an especially successful way.

Why is this bad?

>>51860735
Thor or Tempus or Aphrodite or Glaggerk isn't going to have Holy Rogues.

You don't need this broad archetype of Divine Roguesters. Just make a friggin' Cleric Domain.

>>51860440
I've been clamoring for the same jist as bounded accuracy (only calling it "absolute" rather than "relative" power scaling) for about 14 years, so you may dislike it because it allows mortals to occasionally outwit deities (you know, like in those shitty mythology and S&S tales) but I find it to be glorious.

>>51860745
they should succeed in an especially successful way when they beat the DC by 5 or 10 or whatever. Not on an magic 20 roll.

So overworld travel, what are your fundamentals? I need some ideas cause I feel like I'm taking out player agency with my current method of

>tell them where they want to go on the map
>they move
>if they reach 24 miles, I remind them they can rest or press on and take the risk
>I roll for random encounter for day travel and when they do long rest
>reach town/city/etc.

It just goes like that. My players like travel and want to feel the journey part of the game but I'm feeling like I'm not doing them any good if I keep to my formula that I've used for a while or is that all there is to it?

>>51860218
That's how it seems to be, but I personally allow for slow horizontal movement within its 20 foot range

>>51860745
In theory, it isn't.

In practice, it varies. If you play with retards or spergs, this sort of thing will condition them to believe that even in games where rolls are allowed despite success being numerically impossible, that success (particularly profound success) is guaranteed on a nat 20.

/tg/ is mostly comprised of retards, spergs, and retard/sperg-adjacent players.

>>51860790
I like degrees of success in other games, and wish dnd would adopt them.

>>51860745
I think the problem with nat 20s being instant success is that people see that then will do incredibly stupid stuff, then roll for it and expect any loss to be minor but a success major.

>>51860282
So I'll create a halfling and doing stupid stuff to spam roll.

5% chance to do ridiculous stuff and 1/400 of getting bad stuff? When I'm rolling like 50 times a session? The odd is in my favor.

Anons? Way back in AD&D 2e's day, I loved playing the Undead Master kit.

This was a Wizard Kit where, in exchange for only getting 1 weapon proficiency point and giving up access to Alteration, Divination and Illusion spells, you got all the benefits of being a Necromancer, plus the ability to cast Enchantment spells, plus the Control Undead class feature of an evil Cleric, plus the ability to Control Outsiders via that Control Undead feature.

Now, I know you can reasonably pull off a fascimile of this by just taking the Necromancer Tradition and using the right mix of Enchantment and Conjuration spells, but I was curious:

Do folks think there are more crunchy ways to update an Undead Master to 5e?

If yes, how? It's clearly not right for an Arcane Tradition, too top-heavy, but maybe as a prestige class, or a collection of feats...?

>>51860831
If your DM and playgroup is fine with that, sure.

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>>51860802
Unless you have specific plans to drop a neato-cool encounter on them like the Wight or 3 Hill trolls or whatever, travel just isn't what they came to experience. It's ok to just have ye olde "dotted lines across the map, now you are in Ancient Wherever, let's start looking for the Ark".

Next you'll want to zazz up provision gathering.
You have only so many hours in a session and everyone is looking forward to a Big Heroic Moment or two.

>>51860572
I kind of agree. So many of the people I used to play DnD with didn't take it seriously, making out of character jokes or doing shit for comedic purposes. The whole "Natural 20 is instawin" concept really bothers me, as when handled incorrectly it can lead to serious bullshit.

>>51860851
Why do you keep asking the question? The 5e necromancer is exactly what you're talking about.

>makes undead better than anyone else
>controls undead even though the cleric doesn't anymore (afaik)
>can use all schools
>can use planar binding to control fiends like the undead master

>>51860851
At least wait and ask on another day, not erry thread.

>>51860769
The issue with that is that then it's a Cleric that is also sneaky instead of a Sneaky that is a Cleric.

Think Eldritch Knight as to Wizard (Rogue first, Cleric second) to your suggested Bladesinger as to Fighter (Cleric first Rogue second).

I guess there's always just the ol' Trickery/Rogue or Paladin/Rogue options.

>>51860880
B-BUT IT'S NOT OPTIMAL!

So I missed when the new UA dropped.
How angry was this thread that it wasn't Mystics?

Has anyone else ever gotten a (You) from a response to a post that isn't their own? Any idea why that would happen?

>>51860891
>The issue with that is that then it's a Cleric that is also sneaky instead of a Sneaky that is a Cleric.

You are seriously hair-splitting at that point.
Like, you want a divine rogue for no other reason than there isn't currently one.

>>51860901
It IS optimal, unless for it to be optimal it has to be some sort of bizarre guy that snipes liches with str based feebleminds from a mile away.

>>51860903

Very.

>>51860922
..
....
maybe.

>>51860933
On a scale of 1 to 10, how more powerful than the *entire* rest of the party combined does your Undead Master class/archetype/whatever need to be to satisfy you?

>>51860906
Well that's either a server-side error on g00k's part, or someone is spoofing your IP and also posting in the same thread as you.

Probably the former.

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>>51860968
I'm not actually that guy, I'm mocking him hehe.

But speaking for him, I would say substantially.
Like a full specialist Wizard maybe, with a travelling army of enhanced Undead, and maybe divine favors from Orcus.

>>51860921
Look nigga I thought it was implied by Rogue as main class but evidently its not so I'll put it in the simplest terms I can.

Sneak.
Attack.
Is.
Not.
A.
Cleric.
Feature.

Sure I could use a Trickery cleric, sneak up on a fucker using my Stealth proficiency... and stab them for 1d4+dex.

>>51860802
I had a conversation about this with another anon a while back.
I treat travel as part of the dungeon itself.
If it's not important or they just want to spend extra time outdoors for some reason/they're dicking around then I will roll for random encounters like I would do if they were dicking about in a dungeon before clearing it.

So outside random encounters what that essentially means is:
-Maybe the dungeon is hard to reach, put in some sort of challenge they need to get past:
This could be a traveling band of orcs. They could plow through them, try diplomacy, go around, etc.
Maybe it's an environmental challenge. Perhaps they need to cross a massive gorge.
Maybe it's lava, who knows?
-Perhaps I want to give the players some sort of foreshadowing about what is to come in the current adventure, or set up something further down the road (figuratively, but could also literally).
For example I had players heading towards a dragon encounter, but they didn't know this. On the way they passed through a fey-infested forest where pixies were throwing illusions of scary dragons at them just for shits and giggles.
They didn't know right at the time, but the dragon they were making illusions of was the same one that had passed by not long ago.

Bottom line though:
If the traveling is boring, and nothing of interest is going to happen, skip it. Especially if your players don't like random encounters that have nothing to do with anything. If they do like them though, keep em in there.

>>51860861

I suppose. I have some ideas like adding a survival portion to it. So far, they're keeping track of food and make note to hunt and forage. They also went out to detail the way they're camping like how they keep themselves warm and shit. That's what my players really like is how detailed they get in the journey. It stemmed from their love of Fellowship of the Ring in the first half when the characters were traveling and camping out.

I've been thinking of throwing a bigger force out there that might lead to an adventure like they are camping by the river and found something akin to the One Ring. Maybe it's not the One Ring but it has strong malicious power under the guise of a mundane trinket.

Some shit like that.

I'll do the three trolls though I' think they'll appreciate that.

>>51861000
Nice.

For the record, I did indeed play an Undead Master once. Only got to level 6 and never ran into any undead worth, you know, mastering though.

Other the fact that almost nothing in there is for PCs, it would be really kickin' to get an Undead Master to the point that they can control all the undead and all the fiends. As far as I know there is legitimately no limit on evil cleric control abilities in 1e/2e, just how much you can do per encounter.

Is this a good idea?

>Players travel wilds on Hex grid map
>Make Survival checks when moving from one hex to another
>If fail, move to a random hex rather than the intended one

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>>51861009
Yes, I grasped several posts ago that you were trying to shoehorn the Sneak attack mechanic on a Cleric, and if it's a domain that grants bonus attack damage dice later on (and of course it will be) so much the better.

I'm not as stupid as you think, I realize what you are trying to justify mechanically.
I just think your weak premise is rather shit.
Sorry, that sounded harsh, but there it is.

You want to do a mechanical thing, with some good Domain trimmings and a better spell list.
I get that.
You are also willing to bullshit some contrived not-really-existent literary trope-thing to make it seem you aren't just trying to have multiclass munchkining without the hassle of multiclassing and losing high level abilities.
I get that too.

I was just trying to dissuade you nicely before.

>>51861081
A single (revised) ranger will circumvent that entire system, brahj.

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>>51861009
Just now joining the conversation.
What exactly are you looking for that you can't accomplish through multiclassing or RP?

Trickery cleric/rogue is a pretty common multiclass and fits a good them.
Although to be honest I think trickery cleric needs some work.

If you're cool with homebrew I saved this a while ago. I haven't really analyzed it though. Might spark some inspiration.

If I weren't going homebrew though I'd probably play a mastermind/trickery cleric with the charlatan background to accomplish this idea.

>>51861081
Are there going to be interesting things in those hexes or are you just wasting people's time?

>>51861128
BUT MUH BACKSTAB

He isn't trying to be something coherent, he's trying to be More Badass Caster Rogue.

>>51861160
Anything that requires a survival check is always a waste of time.

How can I play a strength unarmed character who isn't shit?

>>51861171
Oh, okay.
Well anyway. I really like the idea of a kind of inquisitor or huckster type of character. Would fit well with trickery.

Always pretending to be a holy man or actually being one but trying to subvert other faiths could be fun to RP.

But if I were really trying to fuck with clerics of other faiths I think I'd just be a sorcerer and use subtle spell counterspell whenever they try to cast spells and then be like "huh... I guess your god hates you... or they're not as powerful as you think?" But while I like that scenario in my head I can't think of anytime that would ever practically come up.

>>51861182
Unless you are in a hostile environment with set consequences for failing them
Or tracking would reveal some unexpected characteristic about he quarry who's lair you are heading to
Or it would let you discern that you are moving into an area of hostile plants/dangerous pixies/Bullettes/ect

>>51860817
He does have the "when possible" qualifier. If somebody can only get +4, and the difficulty of something is 25, it's not possible for them to succeed--at least not without the "success at a cost" (or whatever it's called) variant rule for coming very close to a DC but not actually hitting it.

>>51861223
Tavern brawler barbarian.
No you will not be as powerful as someone who slices into people with a greatsword, but you shouldn't be. That doesn't make any fucking sense.

BUT you will be able to apply your rage damage to all sorts of items you decide to smash over people's heads when you use them as improvised weapons and then bonus action grapple them.

>attack one: shove them on the ground
>attack two: hit them with a chair
>bonus action grapple

Fuck yeah.

>>51861223
Murderhobo-ing isn't Fight Club, it's a battle for survival.
Sure Weeb Kung Fu mysticism is super-effective, but who wants to be Aragorn's weeb pal?
You don't want to grappy Otyughs, they are covered in poo.

>>51861223
Grappler

Or look up the pugilist class on DMsGuild

>>51861231
>set consequences for failing them
This.
I don't understand how so many DMs don't understand this simple fucking principal.

>>51861259
I agree it doesn't make sense, yet unarmed monks can do it all the same. Why can a nimble unarmed man do as much damage as a buff dude with a sword?

>>51861276
>principal
thanks phone

>>51861287
Unarmed monks don't do as much raw DPR as barbs with swords, anon. Their damage is also much more inconsistent.

>>51861266
>>51861223
This is a great idea actually -- from now on, if some guy wants to make a pugilist/grappler, ie someone who willingly chooses to spend his free time not using weapons but rather trying to arm wrestle giants and dragons, I can use otyughs and toilet mimics as antagonists.

>>51861287
Ki is magic. Monks are magic.

>>51861276
"Failing survival in the Vipergrass fields will expose your incautious party to the sharp grassy blades that cause a burning rash. Everyone will make skill checks at disadvantage for 72 hours thereafter unless magic is used to cure this affliction."
That sort of thing. Or frostbite, that's bad news too.

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>>51861326
oh god
not this again

PAM or GWM first as pally?

>>51861331
Exactly, this kind of shit is great.
It also makes rangers not useless.

I am a foreverDM and have rarely gotten to play. I am offered a chance to play, using any of the released content for 5e.

But there are so many things I have wanted to make, too many to choose.

Help me /tg/ I want something interesting/different to play. Class/race is important but I want to use my role playing skills I've honed from playing NPCs, so an interesting persona works too What are your recommendations? The only criteria is that I must be the sort of character to attend a noble party.

>>51861231
>5e
>Set consequences for failing skill checks
I wish. You just need to make that shit up yourself because there's almost no rules for skills or tools.

>>51860096
> Discord server link
DELETE THIS

I don't actually care... I just want to thread to be alive

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>>51861326
This. And not just fantasy magic, bullshit super-weeb bad Kung Fu Magic.
So they can break 10 ton bells with their ballsacks, climb sheer cliffs with their lips, and walk on water while carrying an ox.

Meanwhile you are the stupid Dorf trying to pummel a Troll to death, and dying because you deserve to.

>>51861351
If Ki is not a magical force tell me what it is

What should my weapon choice for a Kensai be? I was thinking Greatsword, Longbow and Net because my DM's ruled we can use nets without disadvantage and I can damage with it.

>>51861081
>>51861115
Or anyone with keen mind.

>>51861376
No dude
I agree with you

I just remember this argument shitting up a thread and a half or somethin'

>>51861371
As I am not an autism-crippled 3.splatbook GM, I find I am capable of jotting down a simple and not autistically complex system for resolving this sort of thing, or simply wing it.

>>51860923
People aren't really angry. They just lost all hope, curl up into a ball and left the internet for awhile.

>>51860396
More CON. You need it for concentration spell. You don't need STR. More DEX so you don't die or waste as much spell on Shield.

WIS is a better stat than CHA because of perception, but that isn't really important

>>51861435
Would you accuse someone of being autistic for playing combat as-written because it has so many rules? Why have rules for one part of the game and not the other?

>>51860396
For High Elf
8 14(+2) 14 15(+1) 10 10

>>51861435
> Thinking that he's a capable game designer
Show us your system. So we can laugh at you.

>>51861359
Here's a character concept I have wanted to play. I won't list everything, but it fits with a noble background.

AT3/wizard (transmutation)

You play as a human (gnome can also work but I'd change details to lab accident or something) that lost their arm/hand in some incident when they were young.
Unable to become a knight or proper tradesman like the rest of your friends you became a secluded child and turned to focusing on your studies.
You became good at avoiding conflict/running away and in addition, you had to become much more dexterous with your remaining hand to get tasks done. Eventually your studies became focused on the arcane when you learned of a relatively simple spell that could solve your one-handed problem. Mage hand.

After AT3, go full wizard and your signature spells will be reflective of your missing hand.
Shocking grasp, mage hand, maximillan's earthen grasp, bigby's hand, etc.

Your arcane focus? Some gems on a prosthetic attachment.

Some extra roleplay potential. When you learn polymorph perhaps you have a mental block and even creatures you transform into lack the same limb.

It's also got a somewhat of a fullmetal alchemist vibe. But not exactly.

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>>51861463
Because struggling against a Bugbear who's trying to skewer your liver is exciting.

Crossing the Shire and consulting the chart and determining how many shrooms you harvest and how many hours your arrive before dinner time base on your encumbrance percentage is incredibly fucking boring and only high-functioning autismos care.

>>51861505
Then why even use survival skill checks at all?

>>51861373
Why can't you channel WIS based Ki through Big Buff Baras, instead of spaghetti-arm weaboos?

>>51861532
You can, you'll just have bad AC without armor.

>>51861552
The solution to that is to wear armor.

>>51861527
The answer to that for most people is: you don't.
I disagree though. Use it for tracking enemies that have fled, or ones you're simply trying to hunt down. Use it for surviving in climates/conditions you're not used to. Use it for determining if you get lost in the woods for an extra hour which would spring a random encounter. Use it for determining if it's smart to set up camp in this particular environment.

>strength is strictly worse than dex as a stat
>shittier save
>shittier skills
>doesn't contribute to initiative
>we pretend like it breaks something if Monks are Str+Wis for AC instead of Dex+Wis

>>51861527
To either
Avoid a specific hazard known to be in the area (ie not walking into quicksand or super-poison oak or Pixie snares)
Or to gain some sort of advantageous information or resource along the way (Oh shit, this isn't a marauding Lion, these are Chimera tracks!/This moss can be used like a healing kit to bind wounds, with an extra bonus!)

Or hell, even crossing a snowfield without dropping into a hidden ravine full of Remorhaz.

>>51861561
What kind of heavy armour can I wear that is as masculine as exposed abs and pecs?

>>51861552
>>51861561
> Big buff bara monk
> not showing their manly hairy chest
That's a crime.

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>>51861592
>>51861598
You know you can just do a chest cut-out, right
Female Fighters have boob windows that don't lower their armor's AC, why not men?
Or wear transparent armor

>>51861372
Then why don't you post something constructive, or an image?

>>51861580
did you forget damage, which is the main way to keep a wizzad from nuking you? I mean, monks aren't ever going to kill an enemy in a timely enough fashion to save the party, since they are retards who actively choose to not use weaponry.

>>51861625
How does going Str-based and using Str as their damage mean they do less damage than going Dex-based and using Dex as their damage?

>>51861111
Not him, but I was working on a holy rogue earlier. I chucked the main mechanic (worse spellcasting on AT progression with non holy symbol based foci) specifically because it was both unwieldy and OP. Honestly, I wasn't going for a caster as much as a Belmont/Van Helsing thing. I think if I were to try and salvage it I'd keep the 3rd level features of proficiency in Religion, proficiency in one additional ranged or finesse weapon (so you can use whips), and can change sneak attack dice to radiant. Then I'd give them some utility features that make sense for a church agent/holy hunter like flashbangs or temporary holy water.

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>>51861527
And to answer your question, if you are crossing non-dangerous terrain that isn't full of hostiles, and someone has a map/there's a Ranger/the Fighter grew up here, you shouldn't be rolling to survive the journey.

>>51861580
I don't think anyone really pretends that.

Personally, I'm just in favor of having str and int become more important skills. Have some penalty for dumping them and give some additional benefit for pumping them.

But in order to not make str and int based classes too good this would have to be counterbalanced in some way.

I always liked the idea of having str give you extra movement speed (as it already lets you jump higher and farther). And just have heavy armor impose speed reductions to counter balance it.

That way if you want you can have a str monk that can jump across the map and run circles around everyone. Barbs too. Could also modify they're existing speed bonuses if it's too insane.

For int, I'd like to see extra int be used to give an extra language/tool proficiency. And having a minus means you lose it one. It makes sense to me that a dumb character might only speak common as opposed to someone of higher intelligence.

>>51861616
So just have large pauldrons and mail legs?

>>51861645
See but Churches don't need rogues.
They have God on their side.
And in a pinch, they have collection plates and Murderhobos always feel specially good about working for the Church. It feels super-legit and makes the Paladin's dick hard.

>>51861586
>Or hell, even crossing a snowfield without dropping into a hidden ravine full of Remorhaz.
Last session I pulled a remorhaz on my players.
They nearly wiped.

They were smart for running.
Ranger passively picked up on "something" not being right. But he didn't ask to make any sort of check to determine what it could be. Just kept walking.

>>51861667
>Int-based classes
You mean all ONE non-UA class which is already incredible?

>>51861625
Stunning is a pretty good way to keep a wizard from nuking you.
So is silencing them if you're a batman monk.

>>51861661
>india.jpg

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>>51861698
Won't do that twice.
Did he never watch Predator?

>>51861691
In your setting? Sure. In mine? Depends on the church.

>>51861714
Yes, actually. Wizards are very good. I'm not wanting to give wizards everything since they're one of the only ones to use int besides AT and EK (both of which can kind of ignore it if they want).

So I'd need to restrict it in someway. That's why I think tools/languages are okay though. Since crafting is almost non-existent in this game, and languages are only as useful as the DM makes them. But only being able to speak common might exclude you from some RP so you might think twice about losing a language.

Anons? Hopefully simple question: would a feat that allows you to, once per day, change into a Challenge Level 1 or weaker animal using the rules for Druid Wild Shape be overpowered?

I was just thinking of way to pull off the Bouda archetype for a gnoll warlock or to let a Yuan-ti Pureblood have the "serpentshifter" racial trait from Volo's Guide, and this is the best I've come up with so far.

>>51861735
The God of Thieves would support a THIEVES guild, and support them with Clerical goodness.

Seriously man, 99% of religions aren't that sneaky. Thugees are just assassins with faith, they don't actually cast anything on you.

>>51861698
>DM drops two remorhazes on us
>I'm the only one at the table who knows what they do
>also the main tank
>everyone else is nearly dead and they insist on fighting it
>character has no reason to know anything special abour remorhazes so I run up and melee it, screaming in my mind
>fire everywhere
>allies do not learn from this and run up to attack it anyway
>NO NO NO NO NO NO NO I DID THAT TO SHOW YOU IT WAS A BAD IDEA
>they incinerate themselves

>>51861726
Yeah I was pretty surprised to be honest.
It wasn't a baby either.

>>51861766
Right off, no "shape-healing" either way. That's a ground rule or there's no discussion possible.
Also your shit drops to the ground if you can't wear it.

>>51861771
Gotta love it.
In my case I was glad they ran would've been a lame ass TPK if they hadn't.
I didn't tell them what they were capable of, but I spent a good minute describing how monstrous this shit was.

>>51861616
But anon, being forced to wear armour for unarmed fighting just to be as effective as the weeb is pretty gay. Why can't large, muscular dudes also have high AC without multiclassing?

>>51861868
Because when you're naked and don't know how to dodge attacks, you're more likely to get hit than someone in a metal suit.

>>51861667
>But in order to not make str and int based classes too good this would have to be counterbalanced in some way.
Well strength classes will never be good because they offer no versatility.
>Have strength build
>Only advantage over dex is D10 or 2D6 two handed melee weapons
>Have to buy more expensive armour for same AC as dex builds
>Has no good ranged options

>>51861128
>no chuckster archetype
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTGVtEjqB_s

I had an encounter set up with a Huge Centipede that lived in an empty reservoir that had a stone roof but it had collapsed in a big earthquake many years ago. half of this big open pit was gravel (mostly from the old roof).

they made their way to the bottom to investigate the glint of silver, and noticed rocks that were balanced precariously, and would tumple down if lightly touched.

The Rogue charts them a careful path through them.

No one bothers to even attempt stealth, even the armored fighter.

>>51861901
scenarios that are obvious to the person making them are rarely obvious to the audience

>>51861890
I mean, you would have much better AC than a light armor class until they maxed dex, if they ever do. People tend to forget that.
Also PAM and GWM are two of the best feats in the game.
Also strength can get you grappling/shoving, which is something.

>>51861901
What is the moral of this story supposed to be?

Are you impressed with the party for NOT trying to "stealthily creep through rubble in an area where there's no indication some shit lives" or calling them faggots for that?

>>51861901
Oh and the Centipede with Tremorsense attacked them, they drove it off with some lucky crits, it climbed up the wall and hid on a ledge.

The Trickster tried to lure it out to attack with a minor illusion. Of a chair.

>>51861888
So? When you have less strength than someone, you should deal less damage with a rapier, but here we are.

>>51861939
Does stealth even work on tremorsense? are they simply supposed to know to walk in a non rhythmic fashion at all times?

>>51861931
>>51861925
It was made abundantly clear that the rocks had been intentionally balanced in a way that couldn't have occurred naturally.
They got that they shouldn't topple them, but didn't bother with a single other precaution.

>>51861952
Doing good damage with a rapier ain't about stabbing real hard, it's about aiming for their dick. At least there's some rational to it.

>>51861973
*rationale

>>51861973
This. Rapiers are well placed thrusts to vital spots, otherwise you'll clumsily take forever to kill someone.
Broadswords are about cutting some fucker nearly in half.
Watch the swordfight in Rob Roy.

>>51861970

Ok? No reason for them to think that sneaking up on some rocks was necessary, or even would work. And as it turns out... pretty sure you can't stealth through tremorsense.

>>51861973
There's no rationale to that at all, seeing as someone stronger would do more damage stabbing someone in the dick.

>>51861970
Clearly your players are better RPers than you for assuming their characters do NOT have the magical ability to determine whether rocks from a stone dome that collapsed in an earthquake are arranged properly or not.

What's needed is to make a STR based monk archetype that uses the Iron Body technique for a STR base damage soak. who tanks physical hits but isn't overwhelmed by them.

For any non-monk, the idea of fighing horrible monsters unarmed is just dumb. There's no Rocky vs Predator movie. And even when Ahnold convinced it to trade punches, it was a one-sided ass beating.

Non-Ki fisticuffs shouldn't be slaying monsters.

>>51861770
Then we're drawing our influences from different sources. I'm less interested in the Thugees than I am in an amalgam of Van Helsing, the Belmonts, and any garden variety hunter of the unholy. That doesn't really fit in the role of a thief (which is a style of character Rogues haven't been restricted to for over a decade) and fit better a religious sneaky-man. Also, my gods rarely have extensive clergy outside of major population centers, and may need people who don't sound like they're carrying more cookware than a hiking group. And I don't know where you're getting this God of Thieves thing from, I never said that's where this archetype fits in. I agree that a God of Thieves would either have Trickery Clerics or Thief Rogues, and not really need a hybrid. The deities I'm thinking of are ones that either A: Have outlawed worship and need agents or B: Might appeal to a rogue who hates undead/fiends/fey (which in my setting can be just as inimical to civilized society as the former two categories.)
I'm enjoying our conversation though.

>>51862021
They would be worse at dick-aiming because they ain't dexterous.

>>51862042
>For any non-monk, the idea of fighing horrible monsters unarmed
Barbs already do it unarmored, and a Tavern Brawler Barb in Rage is doing damage (3-7+Str) comparable >>on average<< to a longsword.

Don't see the problem.

>>51862024
No, I'm saying that the Rogue was given a roll, succeeded and he and the Ranger determined that there were a good number of rocks that had been carefully and precariously stacked so that any disturbance would send them toppling. This was rolled for and said, it wasn't "implied".

>>51862021
There's no rationale to D&D Dex/Str at all. How does Dex help you draw a 130 lb bow, but not help you swing a longsword?

Attempting to bring logic in at this level is pointless.

>>51862082
Yes, and that's as good as it gets, which is severely undermining the otherwise heavy damage of a Barbarian. Yes, a big Barbarian COULD throttle a couple of Orcs, or he could pick up a Maul or a big log and lay waste to a shitload of them.

>>51861929
>I mean, you would have much better AC than a light armor class until they maxed dex
Not really. Fighters would get about AC 14-16 starting with leather armour or 16 with chainmail, not a huge difference. Even then with feats like medium armor master dex fighters can have the exact same max AC as a strength fighter while not having disavantage on stealth checks. General comparisons.
>Better hit chance
Dex fighters win since archery fighting style gives them +2 to hit
>Higher ranged damage
Dex fighters win thanks to heavy crossbows and longer overall range with weapons
>Higher melee damage
Strength fighters win only if they decide not to use a shield
>Higher AC
At low levels strength fighters have a tiny edge but at higher levels it is a tie

Honestly strength needs some big buffs to be on the level of dex. I would honestly suggest focusing strength on raw damage, perhaps making a feat so characters with 18-20 strength can use large weapons and do an extra d8 of damage to represent their peak strength. Might be a bit weeb but really isn't any different than what many classical heroes did seeing how most of them could juggle houses.

>>51862117
I've never understood longbows

In all editions of DnD they use dex for accuracy, I think longbows moreso than most swords really should be using strength for accuracy, because more strength means a steadier aim with the string drawn back

>>51862125
If that's your only complaint then just refluff a maul to be your fists.

>>51862125
Clearly he needs to hold both hands together in a hammerblow and deal 2d4+Rage*2+Str.

>>51862141
This is honestly the best way to do it. Fluff some bludgeoning weapon as a pair of gauntlets or something.

>>51862130
Wouldn't it be easier to have Strength give +1 hit/+2 Damage to Dexterity's +1 hit/damage/AC ?

The little bit of extra damage isn't going to break a game.

>>51862140
In some you can add str mod

So what's this Barbarian Rogue build I've seen a little about? I like the idea of a big thug for my next character.

>>51862183
It's just specialization with grappling for Big Grapples.

>>51862183
Expertise in Athletics. Advantage in athletics while raging.
Be the grapplemaster. Stab people with a finesse weapon (on strength) for sneak attacks. Always have advantage, so always get sneak attack.

>>51862181
You can add strength mod to damage for some bows but still need dex for accuracy, or, for only on class, in only one edition, you can use strength instead of dex if you give up armor proficiency (archer warlords in 4e)

>>51862210
In AD&D I am pretty sure you use str and dex both to hit.

How balanced is the Puglist class from DMsGuild? One of my players messaged me a few minutes ago about using it in our next campaign. Nothing is popping out to me as too overpowered yet, but I'm a little worried about something small flying under my radar.

>>51862210
I allow that in my game with composite recurve bows, the ability to use strength for damage.

Holy fuck Loremaster sounds fun as hell!

>>51862130
Medium armor master is a terrible feat, and for comparison a str fighter could take something actually good like GWM or PAM. Although to be fair a dex fighter would be much better served by sharpshooter or something.

>>51862172
That could probably work. At 20 strength though a fighter can expect to do a nifty 33 damage in a single attack.

I feel like part of the problem with strength though is that it offers no flexibility due to no real ability to use bows. This combined with archery being one of if not the best fighting styles makes dex much stronger as an overall build. If a strength fighter can't reach his target he's pretty much fucked, if a dex fighter can't reach his target he can just pump a couple arrows in it each turn for the same or better damage than if he was in melee.

>>51862244
It's actually a really neat idea, but it is a little gamebreaking at higher levels. But then again, you'll never get there.

>>51861353
Pam
Then sentinel

>>51862244
I have never hated any UA archetype as much as I hate the Loremaster

>>51862194
>>51862203
What's the usual levels for each? I'd guess you only need a level or two from Barbarian but I'm not sure.

Also is this one of the few characters that will work well with scouts mobility?

>>51862307
Barb 5/Rogue X.
Extra attack lets you grapple/shove and attack in the same turn for extra sneaky sneak attacks.

>>51861353
>>51862265
Disgusting.

>>51862330
I might be wrong here but if I shove someone with my attack and I'm dual wielding can I make an attack with my bonus action? Just until I get extra attack.

>>51862249
Dex fighter can get medium armor master at level 6, archery fighting style can supplement a low dex. I mean its not a good feat but if you were obsessed with AC go for it I guess but I doubt +1 AC will mean much once you have 25 AC as an eldritch knight.
My point was that a strength fighter's AC bonus is negligible if not nonexistent since in order to reach plate armour you have to spend 1500 or 1700 gold (depending on if you get splint first or go straight for plate armour). At lower levels that's a fair bit of money that you no longer have access to because of your need for expensive armour.

>>51862332
Hmm?

>>51862354
I'm not fond of PAM. The extra attacks bothers me.

>>51862141
>>51862159
I'm about to play a "Devil Hand" warlock.

How do we fix two-weapon fighting?

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>level 5 party
>playing Barbarian
>come across river of magical water
>take tankard out of backpack, scoop up some water and drink it
>"Roll a d4"
>1
>"Roll a constitution save"
>17+6
>"Okay you're fine"
>tell the rest of the party that the water is safe
>scoop up more water and hand tankard to dwarf fighter
>he drinks it
>DM rolls a d4
>"Roll a wisdom save"
>dwarf fails
>dwarf gets polymorphed into a chicken for 2 minutes
>monk and rogue dive into the river because there was something interesting at the bottom
>monk fails save and polymorphed into a muskrat briefly
>rogue fails many saves and is polymorphed into a baboon for half an hour
>magic water ends up getting splashed on dwarf again, causing him to polymorph into a chicken for another 2 minutes
>MFW watching rest of party taking polymorph bullet that I dodged

>>51862401
So did your character actually think the water was safe or were you just messing with them? If you had to make a con save you'd think he would realize something was up.

>>51862430
I mean, he was the barbarian, I don't think he'd realize it IC.

>>51862430
Character thought it was safe, and the GM told me it tasted like Sprite, so I was thinking "nah, there's no way this water is harmful". Imagine my surprise when the dwarf polymorphed into a chicken....

>>51862362
Either ban the ubiquitous feats, and create replacements, or add new feats that can compete.

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>>51862452
You idiot, he meant it tasted like *sprites*.

>>51862401
>not wanting to be polymorphed
You've never had a cockfight between an Orc Chicken, a Goblin Chicken, and a Human Chicken over a loaf of bread before?

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>>51862232
Anyone? I've uploaded it so you don't have to search for it, I just want to make sure he won't be doing some kind of ridiculous murderbuild.

>>51862476
>>51862401
>not wanting to be polymorphed
It's like you're not into TF

>>51862474
No, he said it was bubbly and mildly sweet before referencing "Sprite".

>>51862496
Sprites are often bubbly and sweet.

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>>51862494
Thanks for making me google that, my senpai.

>>51862505
They're usually not liquid though.

>>51862232
It's shit.

>>51862512
it's one of my biggest kinks

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>>51862517

>>51862561
Anon, this is starting to get a little disturbing. I posted my story for laughs, not this.

Can someone sell me on Wizard vs. Sorcerer and why Wizard is supposed to be better? I'm not really seeing why or how Wizard is better. Wizard just seems like Sorcerer but you have to have spells prepared before you can use them, so why not forgo that and just be a Sorcerer? I really wanted to be a Wizard and someone here said it was better than Sorcerer, but I'm not seeing why.

>>51862601
Arcane Recovery
Larger spell list
NO LIMIT ON SPELLS KNOWN (ie. you have as many spells known at a time as the sorcerer but can change them every day)
also the archetypes are nice

>>51862601
The list a wizard can prepare is also larger than the entire list of spells a sorcerer knows.

>>51862601
Sorcerer: 1 + 1 spell/lvl (until 12th)
Wizard: 4 + 2 spell/lvl + DM Fiat

If you focus as a Sorcerer you can find a niche, and either Twincast buff, or Quicken Eldritch Blasts. Wizards have a lot of versatility, and can always be relevant.

>>51860352
>The only purpose of playing D&D is to get together with your friends and have fun
Regardless of how a table treats a roll of 20, this is absolutely true. If you don't understand that the point of a game is to have fun, I feel incredibly sorry for you.

>>51862232
Too many class features attempting to be ribbons
Simplify and put shit where in order it makes sense.
Drop Street Smart-Just ask your DM to allow sparring and SCIENCE as a light activity for everyone
Drop Rabble Rouser-No other class gets that shit just by existing
Drop second half of Peak Physical condition and roll herculean into it.
Move Dig Deep to 13 to cover the empty space
Move Bloodied but Unbowed to 4 so the fight club feels more unique
Move Moxie Fueled Fists to 7
Roll Shake It Off into School of Hard Knocks
Fancy Footwork to 10
School of Hard Knocks to 15
Pugilist

>>51862601
At any given point, Wizards can prepare more spells than a sorcerer knows. By level 20 a wizard can memorize 25 spell, while a sorcerer only knows 15. Arcane Recovery is a bullshit ability since it was given to the intellectual class instead of the one literally suffused with magic. At the very least both should have it.

Not only that, but compare for example the Careful Spell metamagic with the evoker's Sculpt Spell. Compare Heightened Spell with Portent. And also consider that sorcerers have such a limited number of metamagic picks that most will just go with Twinned and Quickened. All in all, sorcerer is still decent, but it could use some love.

>>51862649
What's DM Fiat?

>>51862647
I don't know what you mean by this, as it stands now at level 1, I can only have 4 spells prepared at a time.

>>51862695
By DM fiat I'm referring to the passing out of spell scrolls.

>>51862695
At level 1, a sorcerer only knows 2 spells.
At level 1, a wizard knows 6 spells and can prepare a list of 4.

>>51860978
>or someone is spoofing your IP and also posting in the same thread as you
Nah, (You)s are a bit more complicated than that. If you switch from http://boards.4chan.org/ to https://boards.4chan.org/, (You)s won't show up on replies to your posts.

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>>51862601
Wizard:
>Has a bigger spell list to choose from, which includes all sorcerer spells barring fewer than 5
>Can cast more spells each day, thanks to Arcane Recovery, at most levels this allots more than a Sorcerer who totally ignores their Metamagic and spends all SP on slots
>The ability to ritual cast spells, including those they haven't prepared
>More spells prepared each day than the Sorcerer's entire spells known list, meaning the wizard not only has a MUCH more massive pool to choose from each day, but more options at any given time
>Archetype features that are on par with Sorcerers' in strength
>High level class features that outshine anything comparable in Sorcerer by a massive margin (Signature Spell and Spell Mastery)
The only significant thing Sorcerers can offer over wizards mechanically is the ability to twin cast certain single target buff or debuff spells like Haste. Despite "flexible magic" being their schtick, Wizard is more flexible thanks to being able to cast a much wider array of spells, as well as more in a day. Sorcerers can also offer much more interesting fluff, since Wizards describe a job more than a character with their abilities.

>>51862601
>>51862686
Oh and let's not forget that sorcerer is literally THE ONLY SPELLCASTING CLASS in the whole game that has no exclusive spells whatsoever. Even Bard has 4 exclusives. Wizards have 34.

Sorcerers have 164 spells to choose from. Wizards have 256 to choose from.

>>51862739
>Archetype features that are on par with Sorcerers' in strength
Only when limited to core, and even then Illusion and Divination are arguably stronger.
Theurge and Lore Wizard are both objectively stronger than sorcerer options.

>>51862761
Theurge and Lore are broken as shit anyways, and aughtn't be considered core since they haven't been released, and they've clearly shown their willingness to pull back on OP UA objects or even throw them out before release.
Shadow Sorcerer was also a bit wacked, though not nearly as those are.

>>51862760
Meteor Swarm

>>51862781
What about it?

>>51862760
Insect Plague, Fire Storm, Dominate Beast, Daylight, Water Walk, Warding Wind, Enhance Ability

At least according to 5etools, those are the ones i found.

>>51862781
Meteor Swarm is on the Wizard list, according to 5etools.

>>51862825
Sorry, i meant to quote
>Has a bigger spell list to choose from, which includes all sorcerer spells barring fewer than 5
and not
>>51862760

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>>51862800
I thought it was unique, since ctrl f-ing for it only went to Sorcerer, but I can see it's on Wizard as well.

You guys convince me to create ky first Wizard.

Which cantrip should I get?
Ray of frost, light and prestidigitation sound good?

>>51863008
>ky first Wizard.
>ky
Don't forget to take Grease.

>>51863008
My next character is going to be a Wizard, and I'm taking Fire Bolt, Ray of Frost, and Blade Ward, with Message at level 4 (you get an extra cantrip at level 4)

>>51863008
For a moment i thought you were going to make a Ki based wizard archetype.

>>51862346
I have a feeling the dual-wielding requirements state that you must make an attack with a weapon held in your hand, or something to that effect.
Either way, RAI I'd say no.

>>51863008
>ky first Wizard
>kill your first wizard
Advice for every DM. I normally rip up their character sheet the moment they say they're playing Wizard, but this is one step better.

School of Illusion or Transmutation for a wizard?

>>51863128
Loremaster

Why is Sorcerous Restoration a level 20 feature?

>>51863128
Illusion if you want to be awesome and transmutation if you want to turn motherfuckers into a T-Rex.

Lads, I need help.

I'm trying to move my game from Pathfinder to 5e, and I'm trying to keep their characters intact as much as possible.

Sorcerer is easy.
Druid is easy but he's not liking the idea of losing all his crafting stuff.
The Magus I could do with a homebrew class that I found online.
The Kineticist is the same as the Magus.

The real problem is the Zweihander Sentinel Warder. Anyone that's familiar with Pathfinder and Path of War able to help me out? He uses the Primal Fury and Scarlet Throne disciplines and I need to figure out how to best recreate his character.

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>>51863228
Moving games is never going to be satisfying, finish that one and start fresh in 5

>>51863228
Starting off with homebrew to force a transition isn't usually a good plan.

Either do as >>51863244
recommends, OR, start of their mechanics entirely fresh, but keep flavor and concepts intact. Don't try and keep characters intact in terms of abilities, but find what made those characters CHARACTERS and not stat sheets, and build fresh from there.

>>51863265
>but find what made those characters CHARACTERS and not stat sheets
Yeah that's where the problem lies, 2 of the 5 basically just play the class, not the character.

>>51863244
This will probably have to be what I do. The game was intended to run for a full year, but we're in March (started in September) and I already feel like it has run its course, but they all want to keep going.

>>51863217
Both sound interesting, fuck I can't decide.

>>51863228
>Sorcerer
>Druid
>EK Fighter, Bladelock if Black Blade
>Don't care enough to look up what this snowflake class is, but I'd guess Mystic Playtest

>>51863228
Oh, and I missed one in >>51863315
>Battlemaster Fighter

>>51863298
I'd lean towards Illusion but I'm biased because my first character in 2e was a Gnome Illusionist.

Transmutation has some interesting spells to solve problems and polymorph is just just plain cool.

What race are you gonna play? Go with which ever's least common for them.

>>51863315
Yeah, he's Black Blade, Bladelock could work well for him.

And Kineticist is a blaster that uses elemental energy and can take CON damage to empower their blasts (the blasts are like low tier spells that get stronger the more CON damage the user puts into them)

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>>51863295
>Yeah that's where the problem lies, 2 of the 5 basically just play the class, not the character.

kick them and get better players

it's your choice to play with shitty players, faggot

>>51863334
Sun Soul, or some flavor of warlock maybe?
Other than Wizard/Sorcerer you don't really get
>i throw elements
unless you want wot4e, which is one of the two essentially non-functional archetypes, the other being PHB beastmaster.

>>51863334
>Blaster based around cantrip
Sounds like a regular warlock would probably be pretty fitting, then. Or the fixed version of the Four Elements monk.

>>51863295
Holy shit, your players are cancer. This is a fantastic example of why I generally hate Pathfinder players. I even understand the mindset and it's all that can convince me to play the game when the situation requires it, but you have to be able to change from playing "How do I minmax the most effective or just plain goofy build" and just play a character.

>>51863350
Yeah, getting him over will probably be the hardest. I'll probably have to put the transition off since he just re-rolled into this character two sessions ago.

>>51863341
Sometimes our closest friends are bad players, anon.

>>51863368
You know what, fuck it, let him play
>Way of the Elemental Asshole
and let him spend a bonus action to change his Ki Blast element among fire/cold/lightning/thunder.
Sure he can get ahead of some weaknesses, but Radiant is already a better damage type anyway.

>>51860243

Fuck dude who pissed in your oatmeal?

>>51863030
> Taking 3 combat spells
> 2 of those are range attack spell (one of it is the most common resist / immune)
> Bladeward is a useless spell

Why?

>>51860385

>Actually being this austistic

I am ANGERY about BADWRONGFUN

>>51863333
Nice get.

I'm playing human so I doubt that either school is more common than the other. I was thinking of having a charlatan background for my character which is why I found both schools to be fitting. Illusion does sound a bit more versatile and I am leaning a bit more towards it I admit.

>>51863407
Go for it. It's not like you can't say in character you focus on both and from a minmax point of view Illusion's features are pretty nice.

>>51863407
illusion is probably more common. Flexible illusion is a really good ability and reward creative player.

>>51863112
>I normally rip up their character sheet the moment they say they're playing Wizard

How beta are your guys to allow you to rip their character sheet up?

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>>51863334
>>51863381

>>51863489
May I be the first to say refluffing the Sun Soul is honestly a good substitute for a lot of ideas?

>>51860572
Seek some psychiatric help before you go on a spree.

>>51863515
It's generic, but feels special, it can let monks do non-melee things in any flavor, and it already does a great damage type, so changing to anything except Force works out just fine.

>>51860572
>with its fervent greed-driven attempts to pander to a wider market,
Is capitalism really that hard to understand?

>>51863489
This works, actually.

I'll see if they'll all agree to switch. If not we'll just switch when the campaign ends.

Do Stone Sorcerer's need a good Charisma? I'm using the spellpoint rule and combining it with sorcery points and as far as I can see I'll just be using buffs, smite spells, defence and quickened greenflame blade.

Not much that requires more then a 14 really.

>>51863613
You can make spell choices to negate it, but it's still your offensive spell DC/attack roll stat, so your limiting your choices a bit in terms of spell viability.

>>51863613
Apparently Int 8 wizards are viable functional builds, so yeah, sure.

>>51860177
How about a cleric that gets sneak attack progression and proficiency in finesse weapons instead?

>>51863640
By which I mean, you don't need high of anything.

>>51863641
Something like being able to make a weaker sneak attack WIS times per short rest could work. Like how a War Cleric works.

Maybe a Channel Divinity Assassinate?

>>51860891
Just fucking multiclass

So I might be playing in Princes of the Apocalypse this weekend. Could someone give me a short introductory summary to what it's about? Also any particularly good classes/characters for it?

>>51863694
Fight elementals!

Bring a character who is good in combat and doesn't rely too heavily on a classical element.

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>>51860891
Eh, while I like the idea of using the Domain, I honestly feel like it just weakens the archetype by directly stealing from another class. Plus, not every Domain is really going to have Church Agents.

Instead, I'd look for some core gimmick based around a cantrip. For Arcane Trickster, it's Mage Hand. For the attached Jester, it's Vicious Mockery. That said, you're kinda assfucked in that regard given that the only real Cleric cantrip is Sacred Flame. Perhaps base yourself around illuminating a heretic in radiant light in order to strike them down / make an example to their peers. Something along the lines of a very flashy executioner muttering DEUS VULT instead of shouting it.

>>51863745
How about Bonus Action guidance, and it gets a feature that lets Guidance apply to an attack roll?

>>51863757
I would -strongly- suggest against that. That's way, way shittier than what the other two are getting.

Mage Hand is pretty much pure out-of-combat interaction, but it opens a lot of doors -- sometimes quite literally -- and can do things that you otherwise couldn't. Blending it into Mage Hand Legerdemain and then telekinetic feints to set up advantage works not only thematically, but it helps to boost the utility of the cantrip that your archetype is based around. Combined with the spells that are gained, you have a very solid package for being a magical thief with illusions and the like to avoid trouble and avoid damage when trouble comes anyway.

The Jester's Vicious Mockery is generally going to be coming out as a Bonus Action for no damage, but instead the ability to give yourself some very good survivability by tossing out Disadvantage on a target's attacks against you and eventually giving yourself Advantage on your attacks against an unsettled target. And this is addition to a wealth of Short Rest spells that are primarily focused around utility and movement which combines to make a highly mobile, surprisingly durable front lime meme warrior.

Guidance is just 1d4. Even letting them add it to an attack roll, that's weak as shit and not particularly interesting either. Like I said in the other post, the Cleric cantrips don't really have anything that pops as far as "I wanna make a rogue archetype based around this" like the bard and the wizard do. As I also suggested in the other post, using something like Sacred Flame to illuminate a heretical foe might work, but I don't have the time to brew up anything tonight.

>>51863832
>1d4
>shitty
Bless is one of the best cleric spells in the game.

>>51863694
Play a DEX Barbarian who uses a bow.

>>51863842
>I wanna play a Rogue with some cleric abilities~! Temple Assassin, go!
>Oh, so I get to blandly waste my Cunning Action to give myself +1d4 to hit for a turn
>No, I don't get anything to help me proc Sneak Attack
>I'm basically just a regular Rogue with a mild bonus to an attack
Bless is good because it effects 3 targets and can be used every single turn of the minute duration. Guidance ends the moment you use it. And again, you're not having any interaction with Advantage to hit to actually trigger your class's primary combat mechanic.

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>>51860177
>>51863641
Actually had an idea for this for a while. First thing I've made so tell me how unbalanced it is.

What would you do to improve Sorcerer? Besides more spells known, which I completely agree with.

I'm lucky to have a DM that has let me get away with homebrewing some things to the Sorcerer I play. I'll put down what I've got but it can vary due what dragon ancestor you're from (Character's a Draconic Sorcerer if that wasn't obvious.).

Starting at 3rd level, once per day you regain level/3 sorcery points, rounded up, during a short rest. They may never exceed their maximum sorcery points.

At 3rd level, you gain the ability to twist your spells to suit your needs. You gain two of the following Metamagic options of your choice. You gain another one at level 7th, 10th, 13th, and 17th levels.

Capstone: The Power Within: At 20th level, sorcerers receive one additional 5th level spell slot. They also receive two additional spells from any spell level in the sorcerers spell list.

Each draconic bloodline receives a free cantrip of its damage type:

Fire Dragons (Brass, Gold, Red) Extra Cantrip: Fire Bolt

All dragon types get the following Extra Spells at the sorcerer level listed below:

1st (Cantrips) Gust
1st (1st level spells) Chromatic Orb
3rd (2nd level spells) See Invisibility
5th (3rd level spells) Fly, Fear
7th (4th level spells) Polymorph
9th (5th level spells) Control Winds

>>51863922
I'd personally like to see Guided Attack by a d8 if only because of dice identities. Keeping the d6 to the rogue and giving the d8 to the cleric is later reaffirmed by their Divine Strike feature.

That said, that will require a helluvah lot of clean-up and retweaking. There's some real jank in there outside of simply formatting it better.

>>51863963
Yeah it was a 5 minute thing to get the basic idea out. Lotta rewriting stuff if I ever can be bothered.

I also wanted to make it a d8 because lets be honest, they're gonna be using a rapier or a longbow and rolling all d8's is nicer.

>>51860177
You have to give it a Channel Divinity, moran

>>51860177
>giving a rogue a 7th, 8th and 9th level wizard spell

What's the best option for Dragonborn resistance and breath weapon?

>>51864162
The ones that are less resisted.
This rules out Fire, Acid, Poison and Cold.

Gotta go blue.

>>51864162
>>51864249
too bad dragonborn is the worst race in the PHB with their only benefit being resistance to a damage type

Are the Weapon Feats from the UA overpowered? I was thinking of taking Fell Handed it seems pretty powerful.

>>51864268
>>51864162
For resistance poison and fire resistance is the best.
For the breath weapon lightning is the best.

Since breath weapon is mostly useless anyway just stick to the better resistances.


>Blue Dragon sorcerrer has to suffer cause they have no ranged cantrip that deals lightning damage.

>>51864299
Yes and no.

>>51864299
My DM wants to kill himself because he let the barbarian take fell handed, so everything that counts as creature is getting knocked over, allowing the rest of the party to walk over and kick it in the dick super easy
I'm not sure if I would call it overpowered but it's pretty great.
The rest of the weapon mastery feats aren't as good if I remember right, the spear one is neato but it ain't the best

>>51864331
Yeah the +1 Attack combined with that feature was what I thought was overpowered. It's for a stone sorcerer but I might just take Warcaster instead.

>>51864299
Eh I use Shield master, so making the enemy prone when I can already do so seems pointless.

>>51864363
What is a good feat to go with Shield Mastery?

>>51860396
8
14
13
15
12
10
Up INT to 20 then pick resilient CON

How is 5e combat wise?

>>51864513
Usually quite boring.
Can be very fun with engaged DMs and players

Borderline ERP /5eg/ games when?

>>51864530
Damn, really? That's lame. Yeah, I've noticed spellcasters and even rogues get to do cool shit, but with the martials it's standing there playing whackamole.

>>51864344
>stone sorcerer
well the hard part about using fell handed to be "op" is getting advantage all the time because wolf barb in party/you are the barb, otherwise it's just a +1 with surprise pronings
Warcaster is a decent feat, but the opportunity attacks can be cantrips don't really work with the stone sorcerer's ability to teleport up to people who attacked the aegis holder

>>51864535
You want pfg.

Is the Dueling fighting style just for sword and board? Or is there some single-hand combat style I'm unaware of?

>>51864488
How do I make my INT 20 at level 1 using points buy? I thought that was impossible...

>>51864565
Pretty much
Which seems misleading to me. When I think of "Dueling" I think of a dude with one sword, like a rapier or something.

>>51864622
What the fuck my nigga
I'm telling up INT to 20 with your ASIs at 4 and 8, then take the resilient feat at 12

>>51864647
I took variant human and increased INT to 16, then to 17 with the Keen Mind feat, I was going to have it at 20 by level 8 anyway.

Can I do 8, 14, 13, 15,12, 10 with the 27 points? I'd have to redo my whole sheet now...

>>51864319
How does this sound for a ranged lightning damage cantrip?

Static Electricity

Evocation Cantrip - V, S

Casting Time: 1 Action

Range: 60 ft.

Duration: Instantaneous

Effect: you summon forth a quick jolt of electricity from the air around your target. The target must make a DEX save or suffer 1d8 Lightning damage. The spell's damage increases to 2d8 at 5th level, 3d8 at 11th level, and 4d8 at 17th level.

>>51863931
All of that sounds pretty good. First thing I'd suggest is make the Sorcery Recovery thing just refill all SP back to max. Even then, it's almost just as good as Arcane Recovery (5th level wizard regains 3 levels of slots, 5th level sorcerer regains 5 SP which guess what, are worth pretty much 3 levels of slots).

Another good suggestion is to use the Spell Point system variant from the DMG. That way sorcerers can be really flexible with their spell levels, instead of being locked to the usual numbers (4 1st level, 3 2nd level etc). There is a homebrew around that does that, but I'm on mobile.

>>51864712
very weak

it should have another effect tied to it like other cantrips that deal 1d8 otherwise its too weak, especially considering its a saving throw and not an attack.

>>51864670
Yeah, 15-14-13-12-10-8 is the Standard Array.
Generally it isn't very useful trying to have all the attributes above the average, you'd just make yourself the super peasant. Focus on the important stuff and dump the rest.
On a rollplay perspective, of course. If you don't want your wizard to be weak and closed off, those stats are fine.

>>51864712
Up the damage to 1d10 or add a secondary effect.
See Fire Bolt and Ray of Frost.

Should I let my Aetherborn character use his natural attack with Booming Blade and Greenfire Blade, as long as he's only gaining life from one die?

I also made him a construct and let him start with drain life to balance the drawbacks from that.

Why does the alternative character sheet in the mega trove only have one page? Where's the pag for spells and the one for appearance and junk?

>>51864712
>>51864744
Since we're talking of lightning, could just use the same stats for Acid Splash.

>>51862140
>because more strength means a steadier aim with the string drawn back
you dont aim with the string drawn back, you aim then draw and shoot. pedantics aside though, yeah you do need to be fairly strong to draw a longbow, speaking from personal experience.

>>51864712
How about this instead.

Flowing lightning

Evocation Cantrip - V, S

Casting time - 1 Action

Range - 30ft

Duration - Instataneous

You send a hidden strand of lightning energy through a surface connected to your target.
The target must make a Wis saving throw or take 1d6 lightning damage. On a sucessfull save the target only takes half damage.
As you level up you may create multiple strands of lightning that deal 1d6 lightning damage each.
You may use them against the same target or against multiple targets withing range.
You create another strand every 4 levels (2 at lvl 4, 3 at lvl 8, 4 at lvl 12, 5 at lvl 16 and 6 at lvl 20).

What's the best crossbow build?

Goal : Do as much damage with the crossbow as frequently as possible.

Bonus points for not relying on dual wielding hand crossbows or having ten of them strapped to my body.

>>51864809
Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter
Hand Crossbow
Fighter

>>51864803
>cantrip does half damage
>attacks multiple targets
>different scaling than other cantrips
>shitty damage that turns to okay tier damage

Can someone explain why everyone's ga-ga for Grappler to me? As far as I can tell, it only stops enemies from moving, it doesn't even prevent them attacking, and even if you use an extra move from the feat to restrain them, it's almost a waste.

>>51864819
Why is it always the hand crossbow?

>>51864712
Literally just sacred flame except lightning instead

>>51864744
>Very weak
Then how come it already exists except with radiant damage?

>>51864748
Alright I guess I'll use that then. Not bad for level one.

Here's another question though. Should I bother taking the variant traits and getting Keen Mind to make my INT 17? Or should I just take standard and increase all my scores, making my INT 16? The modifier will stay the same regardless, so I'm wondering how efficient it'd be. So if I go human, my scores would be

9
15
14
16
13
11

if I use the variant and put both points in INT and DEX, then get keen mind for another point in INT it'll be

8
15
13
17
12
10

What do you think?

>>51864843
Well not everything needs to be the same old pattern.
It's just a slightly worse EB but lets it be distinguishable from the other cantrips.

Kind of a new DM here. A game I'm running is about to have players raid a drug cartel I've had operating on a pirate ship that recently docked. Since we've been at this for a while, I want to experiment with lair actions for a caravel but I don't know if the concept is any good.

The current ideas I have for lair actions atop a full-on boat brawl are:
-A mast unfurls, decking people in a line for a set amount of damage. Not sure what save I should use for this.
-A tradewind catches a sail, causing the boat to rock abruptly and making the players go prone unless the make a DEX save
-Another tradewind catches a sail, and while it doesn't affect balance it shifts the cover and dynamic of the arena

Rolled 4, 3, 5, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 4, 3, 4 = 34 (12d6)

Rolland for 6+2d6 stats.
The best rolling method.

>>51864858
sacred flame ignores cover and is also a cleric spell. we are discussing the creation of a spell intended for sorcerer/wizard so it will be compared to sorcerer/wizard spells retard.

1d8 save is trash