40k General

First for the best legion
8th

File: Castellans(1).png (194KB, 878x918px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 878x918px

Still looking for advice on my 3000pt IG list.

Second for Emprah

File: 1486682023135.jpg (231KB, 1622x1024px) Image search: [Google]

231KB, 1622x1024px

>>51748262
For the God of the Dead and his Prohet

File: Castellans(2).png (127KB, 875x547px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 875x547px

>>51748306

File: IMG_3388.png (222KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

222KB, 480x480px

Hey anons, my Raptors came in the mail today!

Any tips for building and painting them? Anything I should leave off?

File: Castellans(3).png (149KB, 891x639px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 891x639px

>>51748323

>>51748262
How to competitively Black Legion, /tg/?

>tfw Guilliman has two models and your Primarch has none

File: Chaos Space Marines - 1850pts.jpg (155KB, 900x1044px) Image search: [Google]

155KB, 900x1044px

So how is this for an Iron Warriors style army at 1850?

File: chaplainEC.jpg (71KB, 290x599px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 290x599px

>>51748301
That's a funny looking 3.

>>51748349
Counts-as Death Guard.

Black Legion rules don't really do much, and their detachment is a trap (sure, "I can kinda pretend that I have drop pods" is a neat rule, but there's way too much non-deep strike tax involved and no ObSec hurts).

File: 1370566257683.png (143KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

143KB, 1000x1000px

>tfw your airbrush lets you basecoat all of your armies tanks in a single sitting
Even blackwash isn't cheating this much
Shit Im gonna start airbrushing blackwash.

>>51748338
I think you should ask /wip/

>>51748349
Speartip strike and Null Deploy. But you'll still lose so just play Space Marines and call them Black Legion.

>>51748338
What legion, anon?

>>51748375
:^(

File: when you see it you will shit bricks.jpg (507KB, 1056x797px) Image search: [Google]

507KB, 1056x797px

>>51748362
Legion 3 (Ultra Marines) is truly best.

File: KVbdDCr.jpg (1MB, 2500x1667px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2500x1667px

/tg/, why did you chose your army? Was it the lore, the rules, or maybe just the aesthetic?

>>51748338
Raptors have MkIV helmets and jump packs, and thats really cool.
I prefer Mk7/8 jump packs though.

>>51748379
Good point.

>>51748401
Khornate XVII.

>>51748405
what am I not seeing?

>>51748427
EC and UM switched numbers.

>>51748349
Raptor Talon.

>>51748401
Despite the shitty rules, Black Legion does have access to the Cyclopean Cabal which is really good. Put them all on bikes and run away with psyker spam.

Also, something I've been meaning to try out with my Night Lords colored Black Legion is a Sorcerer on disk with the Crucible of Lies. Gives him a 3++ re-rolling 1's and allows him to jump shoot jump with psychic powers.

>>51748379
Good point.

>>51748401
Khornate XVII.

>>51748405
>Ultramarines
>3rd legion
>World Eaters
>Same colors as the Dark Angels

File: Sword_Brethren_Termi.jpg (113KB, 488x763px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 488x763px

>>51748417
Black Templars and AdMech. Though I chose Black Templars back in like 4th or 5th when they still had their codex, because of fluff, aesthetic and playstyle, stopped playing/collecting for years and only came back last year to see them in the sorry state they're in right now.
Had to get into some other army, since I refused to run my Templars as another chapter just to have a chance at my local tournaments, so I picked up some AdMech stuff since I really like the way they look and play.

File: 7e4192a72d5ddd9b2ee3067f12b708c9.jpg (702KB, 2560x1440px) Image search: [Google]

702KB, 2560x1440px

>>51748405
>Night Lords
>Moody Blue

emotions had paints back in the day?

>>51748338
Spray them green, and don't add any more paint.
Instead, just start sticking tufts and shit all over them.
Voila, done.

Do the same with your biggest models. Especially Forge World models.

It'll look great. You'll be great.

File: TalosPainEngine.jpg (113KB, 371x583px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 371x583px

>>51748417
>first start learning about 40k
>interested in slaaneshi stuff - hey, sex and rock and roll? noise marines wield electric guitars?
>learn more
>everything is to stupid excess
>noise marines now just have sound cannons
>meh.

>also interested in ork stuff - hey, brilliantly stupid monsters? gestalt field letting them turn any piece of trash into killing weapons that shred even spess mahren armor?
>all their stuff is designed the same because genetic memory
>aesthetic isn't by default nearly that trashy
>meh

>find out about dark eldar
>edgelords who found out they doomed the universe, almost completely wiped out their race, and put a timer on their existence by their constant lives of fucking, drugs, and debauchery?
>then continued their lives of debauchery and started feeding on pain?
>and they live lives of pure edge, raping, pillaging, and injecting mass amounts of cocaine?
>fuck yes
>fluff-wise, they're covered in spikes, human skin
>fuck yes
>and crunch wise, they're glass cannons
And that's how I became a dark eldar player.

>>51748360
The prince is a waste without ML 3 and a spell familiar. Iron Warriors can take obliterators as troops, so there is no point in having cultists, laspreds are just a disapointment, same for defilers. Drop the extra armor on the defiler if you really want to take it, Daemonic Possession does the same job for free, also drop the lascannon, firing the battlecannon makes al other shots snap fire, and shooting the las first to get around that isn't allowed. On the helbrute, just keep the PF, the thunder hammer really doesn't add much. Switch the forgefiends for maulerfiends, they work much better and cost less, bs 3 with 3 small blasts misses the target way too much. Heldrake really should have the baleflamer, its vector strike is a better AA than the gun. Get some havoks, they are troops as well and autocannon havocs are pretty useful. Make sure you magnetize the defiler and fiends for transportation and to switch loadouts

>>51748417

I started Eldar - particularly Alatioc in early 3rd because I really enjoyed going to tournaments and playing competitively. I've stuck with the army over time even as my taste in the hobby has changed (moving more towards building and painting).

>>51748417
I had three armies at the time, wanted to play Black Templar, but wanted to try the new psychic phase, and was mildly curious about the Horus Heresy. But what really sold me on my current army was the silly looking bat wings on all their helmets.

>>51748500
What about pouches? The Contemptor has a lot of room for them.

File: d3615.jpg (82KB, 648x597px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 648x597px

>>51748506
who are you quoting

>>51748549
myself.

File: 1485833164930.png (296KB, 700x1000px) Image search: [Google]

296KB, 700x1000px

>>51748301

>>51748417
I liked the idea of harlequins and thought I could paint them up really cool.

File: IMG_3513.jpg (84KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 500x500px

>>51748498
No, but they had some pretty great bands.

>>51748417
Aesthetic

It was Eldar

File: goodfeelings.jpg (22KB, 370x250px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 370x250px

>>51748417
>What is the most evil faction in the game?

>>51748417
I'm brand-new to this, but I was instantly drawn to the Imperial Guard just because I admire/find amusing the sheer amount of balls necessary to be a normal human in this grimdark universe, with shit armour and shit guns, and fight anyway.

I just like the little guys.

Anybody got the Genestealer Cults pdf?

>>51748506
Welcome to it, Kabalite! Here's hoping we get a few new character models with this "2 year long campaign to move the story forward".

File: FUCKINGHERETICS.jpg (20KB, 326x183px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 326x183px

>>51748500
>>51748534
> Getting meme mentions when I'm not even on the thread yet.
> Especially when someone asks about chaos raptors
Stay salty /tg/.

Anyone have the craft world eldar codex epud? I can only find the PDF in the link op provided.

>>51748631
Never mind, found it.

>>51748644
you wish, all we're getting is more ynnari. Who cares if the Deldar have zero lords of war?

>>51748599
the dark eldar are the most evil faction though.

>>51748663
There is rumors of vect returning

>>51748500
Kek.

Saw a lot of Texanons last thread. Houston reporting in!

File: Vostroyan_Firstborn_Command.jpg (3MB, 2000x1068px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2000x1068px

>>51748417
Imperial guard
>the lore
can be kind of cool but has a nasty habit of being grimderp
>the rules
Not nearly diverse enough, they don't really make much of an attempt to match the lore.
>the A E S T H E T I C
pic related.

>>51748599
>>What is the most evil faction in the game?

But that's not the Dark Eldar. Dark Eldar are just as bad as Slaanesh, but unlike Slaaneshi worshipers they do what they do purely because they can, rather than as a form of worship.

>>51748691
Fort Worth, reporting in.
I'm gonna stop shitposting so I can finish this damn Venom tonight.

>>51748691

I'll probably end up living in Houston once I graduate from school so I'll be a Texanon soon.

>>51748355
If it's any consolation, the latest one's a steaming pile of "quantity over quality"-grade dogshit.

>>51748417
I chose Tau because I liked their look

Come at me

It was a tie between Tau, Orks, Necrons, and Admech

File: Sittin sidewayz, ridin bladez, gettin blazed, y'all.jpg (204KB, 1024x1024px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 1024x1024px

>>51748691
Space city niggas? On MY /tg/?

It's more likely than you think.

Pic related is literally Houston in two pictures. This is it. It encapsulates everything about Houston in all its glory.

>>51748692
I loved Death Korps before I ever even really knew what 40k was. Aesthetically, but moreso fluffwise--who nukes their own planet? Now I'm actually starting to learn to play, and find out they're FW only which makes me sad.

File: WP_20170215_20_55_02_Rich(2).jpg (181KB, 324x576px) Image search: [Google]

181KB, 324x576px

Hey anons GGA here just got Escalation and have been painting up some Conscripts hopefully to get a game in Sunday what about you lads? Any games or batreps you can share with the thread? Any sexy models too anons? And I'm stuck on either a Baneblade or Shadowsword what do you think thread?

>>51748417
>GK as first army
Fluff and aesthetics, those models...and PALADINS IN SPACE.

>Tau
I loved everything, models, aesthetic, fluff, rules.

>Dark Eldar
The BEST models hands down. Insanely good fluff. Sure our rules are pretty dinky right now, but at least I'll look good dying.

File: curious.png (124KB, 1100x524px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 1100x524px

Random question:
I was looking to edit my 1850 list based on recommendations, and I noticed the corpsethief claw list isn't letting me give the taloses ichor injectors or heat lances.

Is this because it's a formation from a codex supplement, or is it just a list-builder error?

>>51748745
What does the store owner even do in this situation?

>"sorry pal, pick up some Guard or get out."

>>51748737
I don't know, I think you can fit some for traffic into that picture. What's worse is all the best lgs' are more than 40 min from where I live. I do have a GW "only" 30 min from me, and the black shirt is a pretty cool dude.

>>51748771
>I do have a GW "only" 30 min from me, and the black shirt is a pretty cool dude.

Is it the one in Cinco Ranch?

So many Dark Eldar players - nothing more fun than running 30 reavers and doing way better than people think you will.

>>51748764
List builder error

>>51748751
Shadowsword. Casemates are sexy.

>>51748764

Its an Army Builder error. That said I'd go Haywires on the tails.

>>51748417
Haven't actually bought into the army yet, but I settled on Slaaneshi Daemons because of aesthetics, Seekers and Fiends in particular. On the table I'd like a fast-moving, assaulty army so they sound like a good fit in that department as well.

File: GettyImages-114224447[1].jpg (17KB, 300x376px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 300x376px

>>51748745
>who nukes their own planet?
hmmm

>>51748765
I'm sure the store owner wouldn't care, but it's more the fact they're literally twice the price and to make a true infantry meatgrinder like I feel would do them justice, would add up in a hurry. Do Death Korps even have seperate rules btw? Like I said I literally bought my first box of minis within this last week. Bought an Astra Militarum codex and it mentions different regiments, but it looks like it's 100% aesthetics.

File: Khorne.jpg (113KB, 856x934px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 856x934px

>>51748417
I got into CSM/Khorne Daemonkin because
>love melee armies regardless of era
>love CSM aesthetic
>blood tithe points system in the new KDK book is actually a really cool idea
>daemons and marines working together in one unit as they should be instead of being split into separate codices

Plus, everything about Khorne is badass.

>>51748765
>What does the store owner even do in this situation?
>>"sorry pal, pick up some Guard or get out."

From my experience, it's not the store owner so much as the players who frequent the store so much they think they also run the store. THOSE guys are the dicks who try to bring their home rules into the rest of the store.

Also, if it's a FW-only army, I can't imagine any store who'd tell you to put it away purely because it's Death Korps rather than Cadians.

>>51748796
alright, in that case I'll keep using the chain-flails and haywire blasters in order to think out point costs.

>>51748802
any particular reason? it's not as strong as the heat lance, and if the talos isn't even far enough to melta the enemy, I'm probably going to Run them.

File: 1999.png (73KB, 676x1600px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 676x1600px

Relic game tomorrow.

Goal is to get the Tzaangor blobs Forewarning for a 3++

Random Khorne formation is because it looks fun, plus a few challenge fights and/or they all die means free Bloodthirster

>>51748417

Space Marines. Because Dawn of War was fucking awesome.

And because Tyranids looked like they needed too many models. Jokes on me I have like 200 marines now.

File: YES YOU.jpg (78KB, 365x718px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 365x718px

>>51748417
hoodies
and I'd like to point out I was a dark angels player before they were cool and still an edition behind

File: 1486504883419.jpg (204KB, 541x592px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 541x592px

Since there's Texanons here, are there also any Germanons?

If there are, where're you guys at? Bavaria reporting in.

File: 1487205597982.jpg (1MB, 1885x1060px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1885x1060px

What you guys working on?

>>51748825

From a pure AV stand point Haywire is infinitely better than the heat lance. I run them as Haywire because basically you scout, then you move 6" and you present a serious threat to any vehicle while you advance.

>>51748426
Give them flamers, and take 20 of them. Then drop them in the hounds of abaddon.

>>51748417
Bit of everything, really. I'm an aggressive, and proud person. I was raised by airmen, and love to really dive into strategy and tactics while keeping this stupid with sci-fi. So I chose Black Legion.

>>51748381
>>51748460
>>51748463

I can't tell which of these are memes and which of these are trolls. I'm really interested in the logic of the Talon though, and have also seen the Cabal troll the fuck out of people.

>>51748845
Making Guard into Squats for Killteam.

>>51748811
Death Korps have their own army list in Forge World's Siege of Vraks book, alongside the Lost and the Damned Traitor Guard.

>>51748814
>tfw would play KdK if it had VotLW and could make it a WB detachment
>tfw wrote up a KdK list and realized I had no Daemons other than DP and Maulerfiends

File: 1850.png (164KB, 790x832px) Image search: [Google]

164KB, 790x832px

alright, going off recommendations from the last thread, I edited my list.

thoughts?
the corpsethief taloses are all equipped with ichor injectors, and 3 have heat lances.

>>51748853
yeah, but isn't the real value of taloses getting them into assault range?

File: 1444349962297.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>51748811
These are some updates from whatever Imperial Armour book their in.

I've heard them described as Close Combat Guard.

File: Untitled.jpg (858KB, 1943x1114px) Image search: [Google]

858KB, 1943x1114px

>>51748845
I said I'd stop posting while I paint, but I just keep coming back...

Almost done with pic related. Just need to do some details and the guns.

Are the GW carry cases okay for transporting raiders?

File: rps20170215_012423.jpg (299KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

299KB, 1280x720px

>>51748845
All of this shit. Assembled and magnetized the first 3 Kataphrons I need today, gonna pick up the other 3 from my store tomorrow most likely. Need to get this all finished until the 4th and don't have an airbrush for the Crawler. Gonna be a bit of a challenge.

>>51748881

I like that list much better - feels more targeted and sharper. And yes the best use is of them in combat but with the Haywire blasters you present a credible threat for armies that want to run away from you. One of the primary strategies of dealing with a CTC is to avoid it so giving them Haywire blasters makes them a credible AT platform from turn one on.

>>51748917
so would you say it's worth cutting the klaivex to give the taloses all haywire blasters?

File: Wyches again - 1000pts.jpg (154KB, 900x699px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 900x699px

>>51748787

My list does exactly what you expect... Not even Ynnead can save me.

>>51748874
Yeah, the army is surprisingly daemon heavy. I'm just starting it out and I already know I'm gonna need at least two full packs of bloodletters, a prince and at least one bloodthirster, to say nothing of the larger daemons and daemon engines like fiends and the laser turkey. Right now I've just got a ten man squad of CSM, ten bloodletters and a juggerlord. On the one hand, you get to summon more and more daemons the more ass you kick. On the other hand, you need to have those extra daemons on hand to put on the table...

>>51748861
I use Raptors talons with two meltas and a combi-melta. Their shit at everything I put them to. The attached Chaos Lord at least gets to pick and choose his target.

>>51748745
>Who nukes their own planet
Us.
I think death korp manages is a good example of grimdark though, they're dark because they're filled with shame and self sacrifice and they're sent off to wars where they face unavoidably huge amounts of attrition because of their past, They're well equipped and have those artificial wombs too.
Most of the guard get their grimdarkness from the idea that "look, we're just retarded and have worthless commanders and morale officers.
A human life is somehow easier to produce than a lasgun"

>>51748845
Gonna work on some Dire Avengers later in the week. I'm excited

>>51748874
>>51748882
Thank you anons! Also, Close Combat Guard is hilarious and I would have a blast playing that even if I lose, I think.

File: 844777_md-Galaxy, Harlequins, Nebula, Starweaver.png (832KB, 640x960px) Image search: [Google]

832KB, 640x960px

>>51748845
I have to add to my harlequin army making it ynnarri. I think some wraith guard will look great in my color scheme

File: 1370681448925[1].png (133KB, 296x333px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 296x333px

>>51748872
Making them into what?

>>51748930

I'd def. look for the points - I think I'd drop the blasters in the raider squads since they're basically nice ObSec choices with re-rolling shots and the blaster doesn't take advantage of splinter racks. That gives you 30 points there.

>>51748810
Yeah, but two low-yield atomic bombs are nothing compared to Krieg taking their hands of the Dead Mans Switch and basically nuking the entire surface of the planet to uninhabitable ash.

>>51748417
I went with Blood Angels mostly because of their lore and aesthetics. I love the angelic motif and that, coupled with the rage and fury of the chapter had me sold. Never really cared for the slight vampire motif though and how they played on the tabletop didn't factor in much at all when I made my choice.

File: 16712036_10155138420411992_1012859981319479705_n.jpg (35KB, 540x960px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 540x960px

>>51748845
making my first entry for the inner circle

File: 1486426533022.jpg (268KB, 893x1204px) Image search: [Google]

268KB, 893x1204px

>>51748675
This is relevant to my interests. Maximum edge.

>>51748777
Royal Oaks actually.

>>51749019
>That Raider tail conversion
I fucking like that. I like that a lot.

If you're bulge-archon anon, your painting's gotten a lot better.

File: Cultist Champion of Slaanesh.jpg (201KB, 864x1536px) Image search: [Google]

201KB, 864x1536px

>>51748845
I'm currently working on converting some Kabalites, Wyches, and Daemonettes into Slaaneshi Cultists for my CSM.

Pic related is one of the the Champions with a Shotgun.

>>51748931

Looks fun to play with at least? I've made a concerted effort to play Dark Eldar well here over the past few months so far I've had good results. I'm going to a 60 person event in March so I'll get a larger sample test in then. So far I've taken top spot in 6 smaller (10-20 person) events.

File: Hexbringers - 1850pts.jpg (393KB, 900x1463px) Image search: [Google]

393KB, 900x1463px

>>51748417
Word Bearers: Because Chaos Space Marines are the underdog, and if you're going to play the bad guys, you might as well go all the way. While playing Autospam with Death Guard, MSU assault with World Eaters, Chosen or Cultist spam with Alpha Legion or Tower Defense (or Havoc/Oblit/Vindicator spam) with Iron Warriors are obvious, Word Bearers are about attrition and the objective game, and this list has worked for me due to its surprising speed (Crusader helps a lot), Objective Secured, and "enough" psychic utility (being able to effectively guarantee 2 summons per turn adds up fast).

>>51749042
I am bulge-archon anon. One of my inner circle entries I plan to remake the archon.

Every time I make something I feel like I get better, so thanks for the compliment!

File: WP_20170215_22_28_54_Rich.jpg (421KB, 1024x576px) Image search: [Google]

421KB, 1024x576px

>>51748845
>>51748751
Here's what I've been working on. Kind of a shit photo but what the hell. And my store manager gave me these Ratlings for free are they any good fellow Guard anons?

>>51748861
Black Legions Raptor Talon has a decent chance to get turn 1 charges off. You've also got decent tools to make a killy Chaos Lord to join the Raptors. Mark of Slaanesh and the Icon on the Raptor/Warp Talon squad and Spineshiver/shard Blade on the Lord.

I still think DG does it better with Relentless plasma Raptors but it's not awful.

>>51749046
Where are those legs from?

File: 1850.png (160KB, 786x836px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 786x836px

alright, last post of mine for now.

note that the list is 1850 - the taloses all have haywire blasters(10 points each) and ichor injectors(10 points each)

Is this about right?

>>51749121
Daemonette legs, as is the head.

The arms are from the Wracks box, and the chest is a cut-up Kabalite torso.

File: guardsmen.jpg (359KB, 900x1200px) Image search: [Google]

359KB, 900x1200px

>tfw senpai breaks your light gaming boards when they dig out snow equipment

feels black man

>>51748663
Dark Eldar shiver at night telling eachother scary stories about she who thirsts, everything they do they do to distract her from eating their souls. Slaaneshi Chaos is the most evil faction.

>>51748697
Uhhh, no, Slaanesh worshippers do it because they can, because they feel like it. Dark Eldar do it to distract Slaanesh from eating their souls.

>>51749046
Great conversion but that looks nothing like a shotgun.

>>51749142

I like it a lot. I think it will do you well, should be a reasonably solid list that performs well against most targets.

>>51749172
>he doesn't use auto-shotguns

File: Squats-6th-Ed-rule.jpg (132KB, 438x651px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 438x651px

>>51748981
er...abhuman auxilia?

Also I will cling to pic related as my justification until the day I get BLAM'ed.

>>51749163
Dark eldar feed on pain to stop slaanesh eating their souls.

Everything else, all the excess, is all them.
There is nothing more terrifying than being captured alive by a dark eldar. In an entire universe of grey, Dark Eldar are the only purely evil faction in the game.

>>51749182
alright, I'mma have to buy 2 more sets of reavers and a few more taloses, but thanks!

>>51749163
Actually. Dark Eldar's souls are slowly being drained away. They regain this vitality/life force by absorbing the feelings of pain/despair of others. Imagine a water bottle under a faucet with a tiny hole in it. At the start they don't need too much debauchery to keep it full, but as they get older and older the hole gets larger and larger and the faucet needs to be turned higher/more frequently to refill the bottle until they can no longer keep up with the rate of draining and experience true death.

In the Path of the DE books, there's a scene where Archon Kralliach is described as looking refreshed and young during the early parts of the day and by the end of the day he looks like a drained husk or something like that.

>>51749057

The problem is that Wyches are just lacking. It's good that you're doing well with your Deldar, though.

>>51748262
>oh look, it's another 'OP forgot to include GSC in the OP pic again' episode.

File: roboute sword.jpg (68KB, 595x403px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 595x403px

WORD BEARERS GET OUT

>>51749172
>but that looks nothing like a shotgun.

But it's clearly identifiable as being a long barreled weapon on a model that is obviously a Champion model, so it's largely a moot point. It's a pretty clear counts-as weapon that this particular unit will always have if it's run on the table, so I'm really not all that worried about it.

I wanted to use the Hexrifle from the Wracks box, and it seemed like a fitting use for it.

>>51748262
What is stopping the Thousand Sons from recruiting normally? Did the rubric affect their geneseed and cause anyone who receives it to crumble into dust if they don't have psychic potential?

>>51749118

I love how every legion plays Night lords better than Night Lords.

>>51749247
I think they DO. Use Sorceror geneseed.

>>51749248
Sadly, the Night Lords work better as the Sons of Anarchy Legion rather than the Raptor Legion, but this is mostly the result of Bikes being that much better and benefitting more from the Murder Talon and Stealth.

At least Stormbolt Plate is really nice on a Prince.

>>51749190
The only reason that being captured by Dark Eldar is scarier is because

1. It's more likely, since Dark Eldar guns are specifically designed to paralyze and not kill.
2. Superior Dark Eldar tech means they're going to keep you alive for multiple times as long as you would have lived in the Imperium/whatever other faction

So whilst your stay with the Emperors Children is going to be a lot shorter than your stay in Cammoragh, the Dark Eldar have a method, reasoning, and justification for what they do. Slaaneshi forces spit on moral justifications for what they do and, "Because I want to." is the only reason they have for their actions, Slaaneshi forces have in theory absolutely no morality, and therefor even though the fate of a Dark Eldar prisoner will be much more agonizing and eloganted- nothing will ever match the multitude of unspeakable, unimaginable horrors and tortures you'd experience within an Emperors Children warband.

I will concede that Slaanesh has many positive aspects, such as Art and Passion, whereas there is absolutely no positive angle for Dark Eldar.

>>51749248
Are Night Lords the Black Templars of CSM?
Their tactics and playstyle is also done better by just about every single other Space Marine variation with any generic or melee buffs there is.

>>51749163
>Dark Eldar do it to distract Slaanesh from eating their souls.

And servants of Slaanesh do it to worship Slaanesh and because Slaanesh demands it of them, whereas Dark Eldar do everything of their own accord through personal choice.

You forget that, at least in theory, a Dark Eldar can walk away from that lifestyle at any point in time and become a Craftworlder, Exodite, or Corsair. As such, all of their acts of cruelty are born of personal choice, as they routinely chose the lifestyle they live when other alternatives are presented to them that do not require such evil acts. The fact that they believe it to be beneath them is irrelevant, because again, believing you're too good for something is a personal choice.

Servants of Chaos are physically unable to walk away from that life. Once you've fallen (and it's entirely possible to fall due to events completely outside of your control, with no choice in the matter whatsoever) you cannot be redeemed, so you've become permanently bound to whatever god has turned its eye to you. No matter what you do, you must keep it happy, or you will be consumed eternally. In theory, Eldar fall under that same net, but again they have alternatives that grant them a way out such as soulstones.

Servants of Chaos, once they have actually fallen, serve Chaos because it is fundamentally and irreversibly a part of their nature. Dark Eldar live the lives they live because they routinely choose to do so, and can back out at any point in time if they want to.

THAT is why Dark Eldar are more evil.

>>51749234

Yeah they're painful to own a bunch of and not be able to use.

Right now I'm running

Real Space Raiders
>Archon - Blaster, Venom w/Dual Cannons
>5x Warriors - Blaster, Sybarite w/Haywire Grenades, Venom w/Dual Cannons
>5x Warriors - Blaster, Sybarite w/Haywire Grenades, Venom w/Dual Cannons
>6x Reavers - 2x Caltrops, 2x Blasters
>6x Reavers - 2x Caltrops, 2x Blasters
>6x Reavers - 2x Caltrops, 2x Blasters
>6x Reavers - 2x Caltrops, 2x Blasters
>6x Reavers - 2x Caltrops, 2x Blasters

Corpse Thief Claw
>5x Talos - 5x Haywire Blasters, 5x Ichor Injectors

Rumours of III Legion being around again (One of the new books had excerpts).
The most upright primarch returns.

What are our chances of Robot facing down Lucius, and kills him, with a sense of regret and sadness over what the Emp's Children were causing him to take no pride or satisfaction in doing so?

>>51749307
Anyone else read the Night Lord books and put them down going, "Wow, fuck these pretentious emo faggots, they're the most melodramatic bitchy warband ever."?

I thought night lords were so much cooler before those books made me imagine all of them with eyeliner and straightened hair.

>>51749307
Nah, you're thinking of the Word Bearers. Both rely a lot on Crusader and large numbers of melee nutters to get into the fray.

The difference is the Word Bearers rely heavily on Psykers.

File: anglo pepe.jpg (529KB, 1107x900px) Image search: [Google]

529KB, 1107x900px

>>51749321
>>51749321
Shut up and buy my guns you Ynnari fairy.
I don't tell you how to live your life

>>51749327
>What are our chances of Robot facing down Lucius, and kills him, with a sense of regret and sadness over what the Emp's Children were causing him to take no pride or satisfaction in doing so?

Slim to none.

RG has long since lost any feelings of regret or remorse for what happened to the corrupted Legions. They are now beneath his contempt, and serve as a living reminder of his own failures.

File: lorgar.png (2MB, 1041x924px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1041x924px

>>51749330

>implying blessed conduits of the Pantheon's power are ''''psykers''''

>>51749330
I didn't mean on a tactics perspective but more a "have rules so fucked and garbage that any generic goodstuff rules or any of the other rules in their spectrum of interest are better than their own" perspective.

File: i seriously hope you guys don't do end times.jpg (422KB, 681x902px) Image search: [Google]

422KB, 681x902px

>>51749241
FULGRIM I AM COMING FOR YA

>>51749364
>>implying blessed conduits of the Pantheon's power are ''''psykers''''

They know what Psykers are, and believe them to be gifted by the Gods...so long as they use their powers in service to the Pantheon as a whole, of course.

File: Lucius_the_Eternal_6th_Ed.jpg (133KB, 768x1024px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 768x1024px

>>51749327
Lucius will sodomize Guilliman. Screencap this.

>>51749364

why does lorgar have such luscious lips

>>51749396
Rowboat would bitchslap him with no emotions, Lucius would resurrect in his old body.

File: Better than ghazghkull.jpg (888KB, 785x1187px) Image search: [Google]

888KB, 785x1187px

>>51748845
Working on another Grukk Face-Rippa

>>51749405
All the better to turn you to chaos with.

File: IMG_1801.jpg (155KB, 1252x1252px) Image search: [Google]

155KB, 1252x1252px

>>51749330
>tfw Khornate Word Bearers

>>51749366
>tfw Khornate Word Bearers

So, Arkhan Land is considered one of the greatest scientists to ever serve the Imperium and singlehandedly moved their technology forward by several millenia of research, right?
And he was one of the Martian Magi, right?
Then why the hell are the AdMech not also using the Land Raiders and Land Speeders he designed to honor and revere his genius even more? They treat his walking cane as a holy relic but don't use some of his greatest inventions for their army?
I know that one of their 30k tanks is based on the Land Raider chassis, but even that one is not officially a Land Raider.

File: Visarch-Sword-of-Ynnead.jpg (50KB, 599x498px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 599x498px

Being Yvraine's mentor I was expecting him at least having higher or equal WS/I to her, ffs at least give him higher S/T. Meh.

>>51749366
You could the same for Word Bearers to be honest, as there's no reason to run them in a CAD. Consider their Legion bonuses:
No special bonus for models with Veterans of the Long War. Want universal hatred, Siege Specialists, Stealth, etc? Fuck you.
Possessed as Troops. Problem is Possessed are the worst option in the Chaos codex.
Zealot bubbles for Dark Apostles. Only problem is the only time you ever take a Dark Apostle is as a tax for Lost and the Damned, where he gets the same bonus.

Word Bearers are all about their Warlord trait, more efficient summoning, the Grand Host granting Crusader, and mix&match Marks without sacrificing Obsec like Black Legion.

>>51749433
Same reason Space Wolves no longer use Leman Russes

>>51749321
Well, lets refute the fact that Dark Eldar can just leave. Whilst many do leave and become craftworlders/corsairs when given the opportunity, the vast majority of them are slaves or less and have absolutely no agency over their fates.

I dunno about that iredeemable chaos thing, we have Primarchs switching sides in the fluff atm and you can see a devotee of one god get turned to the path of another. It's also irrelevant because spawned or blammed you're getting eaten by demons. Also the vast majority if not all followers of Slaanesh turn to her because they were seduced, which is partially their own fault and partially their will. I really reject your, "Once gone to chaos damned to slavery forever" argument. The Imperiums zero tolerance policy for traitors, apostates, and heretics, is the main reason Chaos forces dont turn back.

Servants of Chaos do what they do to earn favors of the gods and gain power, and espeically when it comes to Slaaneshi warbands they accept the taint of the ruinious powers willingly, eagerly.

Dark Eldar do what they do because they were born into it and its their way of life, and it keeps the boogeyman/woman/it from eating their souls. Dark Eldar have reasons, Slaaneshi forces do not, and thus are more immoral and conclusively more evil.

>>51748417
I haven't bought in just yet but I've been looking into Necrons or the Tyranid.

>lore
Is neat flavor wise. Trazyn is cool
>look
Kind of samey at times but easy to paint for first timer from what ive heard.
>gameplay
I like hard hitters.

Tyranids:
>Lore
???
>Looks:
Pretty unique. Might be a pain to paint though.
>Gameplay
I also like rushers

I would've looked more into orks because I really like their flavor but their codex doesn't look so good.

>>51749433
Originally they did.

Post-Heresy, however, things like Land Raiders became contractually only available to the forces of the Space Marines, and Space Marines became reliant upon Mechanicus Forge Worlds to make them (rather than have their own pet Forge Worlds like they did during the Great Crusade).

They still use them from time to time in fluff, but also they generally have better vehicles that are purely their own to use.

>>51749461
Necrons are far better off gameplay wise than tyranids are.

Has there ever been an attempt by GW to make a spin-off/sub game kind of like a "Warhammer Duels" where you only fight each other with 1-3 figurines for a quick skirmish?

I think it'd be better for luring in people that don't want to buy and paint an entire army/have the time to dedicate to doing that, but would still get them buying Warhammer figs. You'd also be able to play way faster.

If not, what would be the best way to achieve this? Just lowering the number of points wouldn't work because you'd be missing out on all the cool abilities of high point models, and someone would still cheese it with dirt cheap costed models.

Restricting your option to a Warlord?

File: 60010799003_Gorechosen05.jpg (83KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 600x620px

>>51749489

>>51749227
I have the first Path of the DE books, I should give it a read. I read all the Craftworld path books and they were pretty good (Admittedly they got a bit worse with each one). I love to read about my food.

>>51749291

ObSec stealth Havoks are nice at least.

>>51749515
Motley are awesome.

>>51749005
Do you have any idea how close we got to that a number of times during the Cold War?

Let alone all the ones we dropped just to go "Yep. Turns out that one blows up too!"

>>51749461
>easy to paint for first timer from what ive heard.
Until you get to painting ghost arks.

>>51749509
>Age of Sigmar Khornate Pit Fighting

Gay as fuck though. I'd definitely be interested if it was 40K themed.

>>51749533
>tfw no Motley model
>tfw no Bellathonis and Xagor models
>tfw no Archon Mallixian model

File: 92358602963729605962903650965206298253659302865.png (262KB, 682x477px) Image search: [Google]

262KB, 682x477px

Greetings from /m/! What giant mecha would be most fitting to team up with various original chapters? Other Imperial factions?

>>51749489
You'd really want a custom ruleset for it as the game really isn't balanced around 1v1 hero duels.

>>51748417

Started Sisters back in 4th edition because an army of flamer wielding Joan of Arc army sounded cool as shit. Considering how rare they are to see now, I regret nothing.

>>51749366
No, that's Word Bearers. Unarguably the worst legion rules since they grant no benefits unless you're fighting Ultramarines, using a CAD and taking Posessed as troops because you're retarded, or summoning Daemons. Then you get Hatred+1 and/or harness on a 3+. I personally have a hatred of Malefic Daemonology. Need I say more about the Posessed?

Then I find out that the Crimson Slaughter do Posessed FAR better than the Word Bearers. Heck, they even get a relic that turns their HQ into a Daemon with more than a few special rules. Why don't we get something like that? The legion that had Posessed since day 1?

>>51749005
We've used thousand of nukes on earth.

>>51749538
Don't build it in one go, paint seperate parts, then assemble it.

File: going gold.png (551KB, 1022x1094px) Image search: [Google]

551KB, 1022x1094px

>>51749549
Emps has to have Aquarion Logos, he can directly fuck with the Warp with it.

>>51749449
His sword gives him +2s which makes it higher. But you are right.

>>51749545
Wouldn't it be about the same thing in 40k? Just a bunch of khornate initiates hoping to become space marines and competing in an arena?

>>51748884

Nice and clean, love it

>>51749489
It would definitely need to allow for custom model creation and a separate wound system, since having stuff with only 2 or 3 wounds die in 2 dice rolls would be too short even for that.

It should give 3 or so "bases" to build your character on for every faction with different specialisations, like higher BS or WS or a Psyker for example, and then give you a giant roster of Wargear and other upgrades. Give the system like 10 customization points to dpend on your gear and special rules and you might have a neat turbo gamemode that would give you an even bigger "Your dudes" spectrum than even HoR Kill Team and finally lets you use those cool custom models for your special snowflake guys you made in the way they are meant to perform and not just as a counts-as.

>>51749575
Nah, I don't want it to have some stupid plot-forced hook like Gorkamorka or anything. That's what kills these games.

It should just be a format that you can play with models that are already intended for use in 40K.

It's basically a gateway drug to 40K.

>Do you want to play 40K?
>Don't have a million years to paint and assemble a whole army?
>Don't have a pile of money to burn?
>Why not play 40K Duels?
>Buy a Warlord (and maybe two smaller models)
>Fight against some other asshole who also has a Warlord

>>51749366
Army wide Stealth is a decent benefit, even if the other things like Fear and bonuses to it are Meh. A team of Nightlord Havocs can hide in a ruin all game and get 2+ cover. Raptors as troops also means they get a decently fast mobile scoring unit.

Word Bearers are worse off, because two of their biggest benefits require having specific HQ units. You get Sorcerers that summon better, and Apostles with a bubble of zealot.

>>51749460
>the vast majority of them are slaves or less and have absolutely no agency over their fates.

Dark Eldar are not slaves in Dark Eldar society. That is the job of the lesser races. Dark Eldar are the "noble class" of their society, where even the lowest Dark Eldar is greater than any other being that could possibly exist purely because he is Dark Eldar. He has complete agency over his life, and it is only because he has complete agency over his life that he even manages to survive Commoragh in the first place. Dark Eldar change masters and stations all the time as their own stars rise and fall, or they die. Slaves don't survive in their society at all, so any Dark Eldar that exists, by default, cannot be a slave.

>we have Primarchs switching sides in the fluff atm

Literally which Chaos-corrupted Primarchs are switching sides and getting redeemed. Once you become a Daemon Prince (which all surviving Chaos Primarchs barring Alpharius/Omegon are, as has been re-confirmed in Traitor Legions) there literally is no going back, because you have become an immaterial being at that point.

>Also the vast majority if not all followers of Slaanesh turn to her because they were seduced, which is partially their own fault and partially their will

You do know that Chaos can corrupt an individual, even an unwilling or even uncomprehending individual, through sheer exposure to raw Warp-stuff and daemonic sorcery? This is the case for literally any Chaos God, not just Slaanesh. Sure, some join willingly, but many more don't - they're just in the wrong place at the wrong time and get caught up in a cult uprising and suddenly Daemons and Warp-magic starts appearing out of nowhere. That is not something they are equipped to handle.


>is the main reason Chaos forces dont turn back.

There is a big difference between, "Renegade" and "Corrupted." Renegades are not literally warped/bound by Chaos, and can (and have) come back into Imperial arms.

TL;DR You wrong.

>>51749557

Night Lords and Word Bearers are definitely on the bottom, but at least Night Lords halve the Stormbolt plate. Hell, you can take a Tzeentch AND Nurgle DP and both will have 2+ saves. The Tzeentch one is more vulnerable to grav because of the plate but is otherwise far more durable, while the Nurgle one can take other relics like Shred or +d6 attacks with a better lore.

Night Lords don't feel like Night Lords...

Both are probably better off using 30k rules.

>>51749617
Ok, my Warlord is Smashfucker.

You lose.

>>51749561
Not nukes developed solely for the purpose of destroying the planet, and used in large enough numbers simultaneously to permanently and irreversibly render the climate uninhabitable.

>>51749668
Why would I lose? I run a Necron Overlord.

Fuckin' memeposters.

So, recent years have had stuff like Celestial Lions being brought back from the brink by their Black Templar bros, the whole focus on big damn heroes in the lore with the new Gathering Storm stuff, and the Time of Ending doom and gloom being semi-reversed by things like the DEldar agreeing to help fix the Golden Throne. Are we seeing the gradual nobledarking of 40K at work here?

>>51749687
Because you literally can't kill Smashfucker outside of retarded shit that outright removes models.

And I'd argue that a model with that kind of special rule defeats the purpose of a skirmish battle and therefore shouldn't be allowed to be used.

>>51749668
>Necrons
>Magnus
>Skarbrand
>Ghazkull
>Lysander

etc

File: IMG_3514.jpg (106KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 600x620px

>>51749617
>>Buy a Warlord (and maybe two smaller models)
?

>>51749489
I mean, Kill Team is kinda like that and that's what got me into this. 200 points is small enough I can try something out for relatively cheap without feeling like I have to invest loads of time/money into a game I don't even actually know if I'm going to like yet.

>>51749706
There's plenty of ways to deal with a shitty homebrewed meme that isn't even an official character or model with proper rulings.

>>51749545
Probably not as long as gun and shit are still involved.

You could based up the Gorechosen rule and made your own arena duel with Wyches, Harlequin, and some w/e unit that get captured by the DE. Although if you want to drag in MC like Hive Tyrant in the game, it could become a clusterfuck with balancing and rules.

>>51749549
>Ultramarines
Shin Getter Robo
>Blood Angels
Strike Freedom Gundam
>Imperial Fists
Mazinkaiser
>Salamanders
Daitarn 3
>Space Wolves
Braiger
>White Scars
Gunbuster
>Raven Guard
Dancouga Nova Max God
>Iron Fists
Daimos
>Dark Angels
The Evangelions
>Fallen Angels
MP Evangelions
>Gray Knights
Demonbane, Draigo can have Tengen Toppa Guren Lagann
>Sisters of Battle
Vilkiss
>Assassinorium
Shinkiro
>Imperial Guards
Scopedogs
>Imperial Navy
Variable Fighters, thunderbolts being the best
>Custodes
Daltanious
>Black Legion
Einhart. Seriously, Infinite Ryvius was beyond cancerous.
>Word Bearers
Barbatos Gundam (filthy traitor with constant talk)
>World Eaters
Ideon
>Death Guard
Evangelions because lets be honest they're all just different heads and colors
>Thousand Sons
Ginguiser
>Emperor's Children
Valvraves
>Iron Warriors
God Mars
>Night Lords
Arbalest
>Alpha Legion
Big O
>Sons of Malice
No idea, but I like Gravion so it.

>>51749734

He does have proper rulings? He was just built out of IH stuff - he never had homebrew rules or anything.

>>51749557

Because ultrasmurfs are GW's poster boys. That is why the Word Bearers can't have nice things.

>>51749734
It's a real thing mate.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Chapter_Master_Smashfucker

>>51749740
>Gunbuster
Maneuver Blades fro Viper's Creed would have been more fitting
>The Evangelions
You listed these twice

>>51749776
Having a 1d4chan article doesn't make something "real". It's not going to be in any 40K source books - it's not a character like Ghazghkull.

>HURR HURR SMASHFUCKER

Cringey as fuck

>>51749781
>You listed these twice
Hmm, you're right, Death Guard can have Zearth than

>>51749617
You'd have to ban a bunch of stuff to get it to work.

>>51749790
It's not an officially recognised special character like Ghazzy, sure, but it's still built 100% from official rules.

File: 1464816944892.png (44KB, 625x626px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 625x626px

>>51749790
BRUH. Smashfucker is just a character build you can make in the actual codex, with ACTUAL supplements that are actually made by games workshop. There is nothing about him that's homebrew.

What, are you somehow banning GENERIC CHARACTERS from games at your store? Are people not allowed to take a captain and customize him to the extent they desire, using the actual ingame rules for making their own characters?

>>51749790
It is literally completely within the rules of the game you retarded crybaby. If you're trying to say it's not an actual named character then you are correct, but saying that it's just bullshit homebrew is completely and idiotically false.

>>51749800
I.. know. That's literally why I'm asking you guys, the 40K general.

>If not, what would be the best way to achieve this? Just lowering the number of points wouldn't work because you'd be missing out on all the cool abilities of high point models, and someone would still cheese it with dirt cheap costed models.
>Restricting your option to a Warlord?

Looking for some actual suggestions to make this a viable endeavor.

>>51749790
Its a chapter master, thats a character.

Lurk more friend.

>>51749790

Did you even click on the link? He's a fully legal character because he's built out of fully legal supplement rules.

>>51749714
>Smashfucker runs <250pts
>Only 3 of those are near his cost

>>51749734
He's a fucking Chapter Master with a 45pt Relic and a TH/Claw on a Bike.

>>51749714

He actually stands up very well to almost all of those selections.

>>51749822
You'd have to go through every codex to narrow down what is and isn't acceptable. Anything with a bike or wings would be out for starters, and you'd have a hell of a time trying to get balance between shooting and melee characters. Guard would also be pretty much useless.

>>51749790
That's like saying "There's no Dakkafex in the rules! They don't exist!" because nowhere in the Codex does it refer to a certain build as a Dakkafex.

>>51749811
>>51749814
>>51749817

A few points.

1) Smashfucker is not immortal, invincible or an "I win the game" build, by any stretch of the imagination. His build isn't topping the tournament armylist charts and making players quake with fear when it hits the table.

2) There are a variety of ways to kill him, not just in army level play, but in 1 on 1 model level play.

3) It's still cringey as fuck and retarded.

>>51749863
Orks would be useless too with no inv or ew.

>>51749868
> There's a variety of ways to kill him
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Chapter_Master_Smashfucker#SMASHFUCKER_PRIME_VERSUS_THE_PRIMARCHS

It's straight up impossible unless you're a D-Thirster swinging with a Strength D weapon. Smashfucker can kill all of the PRIMARCHS, who are easily double his points cost.

That being said his best 'counter' is to just tarpit him with cultists+priest, or stand on the complete opposite side of the table from him.

>>51749878
Ghazzy is always good in a 1 v 1 scenario.

>>51749868
None of these completely valid points are what the retarded anon is trying to make however. He's trying to say that Smashfucker is just a fucking homebrew.

>>51749645
>tfw Cammoraghans mad that they just be bitches immitating the real evil guys.

There is a distinct heirarchy in Dark Eldar society between natural born and vat born eldar, then below them are mutant eldar, and so on, and the majority of them are vat born or mutants who have no rights or are too downtrodden to escape cammoragh. Also like I guess you don't now your own fluff because Deldar keep slaves alive for as long as they can, which is a fucking long time.

Daemon Princes make up .0000000001% if even of Chaos forces, most chaos followers are mortals.

To put it in Batman terms:
Dark Eldar are like the criminals infesting the city, from petty rapists to the mafia families; Slaaneshi forces are the Joker.


Also dude I've studied moral philosophy for the majority of my life, and you've yet to refute my points or clauses. You're wrong, and angry too. Sorry that Deldar are scared little girls compared to Slaaneshi Chaos.

Bottom line is I read the fluff and concluded that Slaaneshi chaos were the msot evil faction, people are allowed to disagree in adult society, you know.

what are good chaos undivided colors for a soul grinder if you want to use different patron gods for different matches?

>>51749886
It's not straight up impossible at all.
>While he won't win against everyone - notably, he'll (mathematically) lose against Be'lakor, Skarbrand, Abaddon, and a Waaagh-buffed Ghazghkull - he's still dead 'ard and dead killy.

>>51749740
>Alpha Legion
>Big O

Best Legion confirmed

>>51749868

A few counter points

1) You're a dense fuck who is back pedaling after calling his rule homebrew.

2) Man up and admit you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about.

3) Learn to do actual mathhammer - he is impossible to kill in single combat without a D weapon.

4) The reason he isn't doing work on top tables is because the list that supports him is not very good by comparison to other top table lists, not because he isn't good.

>>51749887
Not really, anything that cuts through 2+ and is faster than him eats him, he also tends to lose attrition based fights against anything with an inv and ew.

>>51749908
He gets a couple rounds of 2++, which is enough against most things.

File: images.jpg (4KB, 160x160px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 160x160px

>>51749899
> Reading from the 5th Edition version of SMASHFUCKER
> Not reading the "SMASHFUCKER PRIME" version of him from 7th edition that got buffed so far into fucking space that he can take on Primarchs
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Chapter_Master_Smashfucker#SMASHFUCKER_PRIME

>>51749925
His waagh only lasts a turn.

>>51749929
>Cataphractii Armour is explicitly stated to be Cataphractii Terminator Armour, some people (namely your opponents, all of them, as well as every tourney organizer) would argue that is just enough RAW for the bike to be illegal (since Bikes say they cannot be bought by anyone wearing Terminator Armour). If you're dead set on fielding this guy, be sure to put on your Phoenix Wright hair and go in prepared for a rules lawyering battle that will leave the wargame you're supposed to be playing in the dust.

>>51749925

If you're playing the game correctly and not paying for AP but instead volume it doesn't matter at all.

File: 1483102187421.jpg (40KB, 594x807px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 594x807px

>>51748417
>CSM
Started out just painting whatever models I thought looked cool and most of the models I have are Chaos because I love their lore and aesthetics. Recently however a store opened up near me so I decided to start playing. Still not familiar with their rules but I like them so far

even though I lose all the time

>>51749899
> SMASHFUCKER PRIME Vs. Perturabo
Smashfucker wins by a huge margin.
> SMASHFUCKER PRIME Vs. Angron
Smashfucker Prime wins.
> SMASHFUCKER PRIME Vs. Horus Lupercal
Smashfucker wins in 14 turns, long before Talon of Horus ever comes into effect, let's assume Horus is too stupid to use worldbreaker to ignore the feel no pain.
> SMASHFUCKER PRIME Vs. Rawbutt Girlyman
Smashfucker wins again.
> SMASHFUCKER PRIME Vs. Corvus Corax
Corax gets his shit kicked in so hard, he actually dies in 7 turns. Making him the only primarch that dies to Smashfucker in a standard length game.
> SMASHFUCKER PRIME Vs. HIS OWN PRIMARCH
Smashfucker wins against his own primarch, proving that he (and his entire command squad and several librarians) is superior to his own father.
> SMASHFUCKER PRIME Vs. The God Emperor of Mankind
The God Emperor has a slight wounding advantage but both will remain tied until Smashfucker's Psyker buddies end up getting perils of the warp. DRAW

>>51749905
I don't know about you, but letting someone take a bike and Cataphractii Terminator armor is illegal, so letting them do it is definitely homebrew tier faggotry.

>>51749952
All of that is irrelevant to the actual Smashfucker Prime and just icing on the cake if you want to be a cheeky bastard and break him even more.

File: iron warrior.png (2MB, 1522x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1522x1080px

Are there any CSM players who could post a picture of a new Raptor alongside an old Raptor? I like both models and I'm curious as to how they'd look in the same army. I'm not too worried about the different aesthetics since Raptors can vary quite a bit (the warp will do that to you) but I am worried it might look dumb for some other reason like model size/detail.

Pic not related but it's the best I can do right now

>>51749949
You get two rounds of combat though. Yours and your opponents.

>>51749966
We're talking 1v1 here, not a regular game.

>>51749983
Leaves him with only a power sword anyway, so a terrible choice even if you could do it.

>>51749983
>rerolling 1s on invul saves is irrelevant

File: baitreplies.png (18KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 500x500px

>>51749952
The whole point that makes SMASHFUCKER PRIME invincible isn't having toughness 5, it's having a Rerollable 2++ followed by a 2+ FNP.

>>51749991
Smashfucker's weapon of choice is either a Chainfist or a Thunder Hammer. Not a Power Sword.

>>51749990
Is there any actual space marine left in that armor?

>>51750015
iron within, iron without etc

>>51750006
I'm saying if cataphractii doesn't count as terminator armor, he couldn't take terminator weapons.

>>51749991
>You get two rounds of combat though. Yours and your opponents.

The rule that gives him a 2++ doesnt last the Waaagh duration alas.

To everyone sperging out about Smashfucker; I doubt any 1v1 Warhammer game would let you custom build a Warlord from a handful of splatbooks. It defeats the entire purpose behind playing a 1 on 1 game with existing characters from the lore.

>>51749977

Nice cherry picking you faggot. If you read the entirety of the article you'll realize that part is a joke. Again just admit you don't actually know anything about what's being discussed and move on. I bet you're the same anon who suggested Taudar wasn't a serious element of competitive play, allies weren't used in competitive play, and that R&H weren't a competitive army.

>>51750004
>extract about biked Cataphractii
>relevant to invuln re-rolls

>>51749991
In case your brain can't make the connection yourself, that build there is the stuff you need to use. You can still equip him with whatever weapons you want.

File: IMG_3515.jpg (61KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 600x620px

>>51749990
I don't have any old raptors, but here's the pic of the new Raptors from the GW site.

>>51750025
To quote, This invulnerable save lasts until the start of his next turn.

>>51750031
That's not a joke. You need it to take terminator weapons.

(R&H isn't a competitive army though)

>there are no orange space marines
literally the only unused color

File: ss+(2016-04-21+at+08.35.44).jpg (173KB, 794x669px) Image search: [Google]

173KB, 794x669px

>>51750027

>>51750041
R&H won LVO.

>>51749905
Actually, I beg to differ. Taking a Fist of Medusa force with bikes... Is pretty fucking terrifying.

>Razorbacks with POTMS and IWND
>3+/4+++ Marines everywhere
>Dreads with IWND everywhere
>Librarians beefing up your squads give bonuses

It has staggering board presence.

>>51750041

What? The joke is putting him on a bike you moron, not putting him in terminator armor.

And if R&H aren't a competitive army how'd they win LVO?

>>51750034
I'm talking about the bike exploit. If he can take a bike he can't take terminator weapons.

File: Tyranids - 1000pts.jpg (137KB, 900x754px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 900x754px

r8 my shitty starter nid list.

>>51750048
>LVO
>Relevant

Does Murderwings still work on a bike instead of a jetpack? I have an idea for his use.

>>51750044
There are, but I don't feel like spoonfeeding you right now. Too tired.

So he's a slow deathstar marine guy. Who cares? Slow and purposeful.

>>51749247
They do recruit normally, however they appear to only implant geneseed in psykers.

Read The Masters, Bidding short story for a story about this if you want to know more.

>>51750056

It is inferior in nearly every way to a Lion's Blade BattleCo with an accompanying deathstar.

>>51750066
Ahh I see you can be safely ignored - LVO isn't the largest 40k tournament in the world who's rules backer has input in the GW FAQ or anything.

>>51749895
looks like I'll just ask tomorrow when this smashfucker business is over

>>51750067
Yes, MURDERWINGS still works on a Bike, in fact it's probably a better option for him anyway, since getting Toughness 5 will make him less vulnerable to getting ID'd off the board than he already is, and makes him a little less of a glass cannon.

The whole reason he normally runs with a jet pack is purely because of him being Raven Guard, it's for fluffy reasons.

>>51750023
You don't need to be in Terminator armor to take a Thunder Hammer or a Lightning Claw.

>>51750074

Because we're talking about him in a 1v1 HQ game that someone proposed.

>>51750083
>300 people show up
>biggest in the world

kek

I've seen more people playing at BAO or NOVA.

>>51750094
Got it. I'm running Raptors, but it sounds like we can take Raven Guard relics- day 5 of waiting for a response from Forge World, but it's what I've seen from others and it makes sense. Bikes would work better for me than a jump pack anyway.

Thanks.

>>51750097
A terminator captain does.

>>51749895
Word Bearers, probably.

>>51750059
The point is that the fucking bike is not necessary and, as I said, just icing on the cake and involves a shitload of rules bending. Also, the whole exploit is built around Cataphractii armor having access to Terminator weaponry but not technically having Terminator in its name, meaning its "totally not terminator armor".

>>51750102
>someone asks how to make a 1v1 game viable
>everyone just talks instead about how a deathstar marine ruins the game

That doesn't make the format viable at all.

I guess what everyone is saying then is "Ban Deathstar Marine Builds" to make the format viable.

>>51750104

It was 450+ this year and no you haven't. I attend the BAO and NOVA every year and they usually sit right around 200. Try another lie.

>>51748417
Started Eldar/Sisters/Guard in 4th. Eldar because I fell in love with the idea of an army of Dreadnoughts, fighting on for the survival of their beloved children, dying again for those they cherish. Iyanden's issues always made me empathise, blue and yellow, beset by foreign insects, violated utterly. As a child I lived on the Norwegian side of the swedish border, we used to go there often to buy things cheap, I had a lot of swedish friends. Seeing their culture die disheartened me, so what started as Saimhann quickly turned into Iyanden. The filthy shitskin at the FLGS I play regularly still doesn't know in my head I'm playing swedish ghosts lead by living norwegian aelves, to cull the shitskin animal tides. He plays nids. it's only fitting.

Sisters and Guard because baroque leman russ and Valkyries are cool.

>>51748692
I always wanted to start a Vostroyan army. If I ever got back into the game I might build them.

>>51750108
No, since you are not using Raven Guard chapter tactics you may not take things that are Raven Guard only, just as the Black Templars may not use Imperial Fist only things due to having different Chapter Tactics.

>>51750123
You'd have to ban a bunch of other stuff as well. FMC's would definitely have to go.

>>51750113
Actually the exploit stems from the problem that Cataphractii Armour had a very explicit definition of what it was, where games workshop went to the trouble of defining a shitload of Use-cases, but they neglected a use case of how it interacts with Special Issue Wargear. Since Cataphractii Armour =/= Terminator Armour, and geedubs wasn't smart enough to just say "Cataphractii armour counts as terminator armour for all purposes", you end up with the Cataphractii Bikes exploit

>>51748417

>why did you chose your army? Was it the lore, the rules, or maybe just the aesthetic?

All three. Necrons are so god damned cool. Literally souls trapped in machines with a Egyptian flavor and really fun characters. Theres nothing quite like em, although im still pretty bad at playing them. Some of the models are intimidating to assemble or outright frustrating(Fuck you command barge) and I really need to get my hands on some Tomb Blades to try the decurion.

File: How many multimeltas_ - 1850pts.jpg (396KB, 900x1536px) Image search: [Google]

396KB, 900x1536px

>Smashfucker

Have you tried using 60 multimeltas?

>>51750123
I would honeslty just follow what >>51749601 suggested. Giving players a barebones character for every archetype and asigning equipment costs and slots for everything would solve a lot of problems.

>>51748599
Chaos. At least the Dark Eldar can make the argument of "If I stop slaanesh will siphon my soul completely." and before you say "but they canchange to craftworld when they want!" Sure. But doesn't change the fact the craftworlders don't have enough spirit stones for them. This means they have to continue torturing anyway.

>>51750158
This of course takes effort and playtesting so I'll doubt we'll see anything from the OP again.

>>51749894

>There is a distinct heirarchy in Dark Eldar society between natural born and vat born eldar,

And even the lowest Eldar is a world above the lesser slave races that populate the Dark City. Dark Eldar are incredibly political and untrusting characters - as such, they scheme and make deals and change positions and alliances on a near daily basis. Every part of their society runs on fear of retribution and respect, and your subordinates follow you only if they both fear and respect you. That is not slave behavior.

>Also like I guess you don't now your own fluff because Deldar keep slaves alive for as long as they can, which is a fucking long time.

If you yourself had read the fluff, you'd know that is extremely dependent upon the slave in question, and that most slaves have everything useful extracted from them relatively quickly before they die. The only slaves kept alive for incredibly long periods of time are high-ranking enemies who have been humbled or those who willingly enter into a pact with the Haemonculi, which is, again, voluntarily entered.

>Daemon Princes make up .0000000001% if even of Chaos forces

Which is irrelevant, because you were saying that Chaos-corrupted Primarchs were being redeemed, which you have yet to prove is somehow possibly given that all of them barring the one nobody even knows about (and who quite possibly isn't even corrupted to begin with) are all Daemon Princes. Don't deflect.

You still fundamentally do not understand how Chaos operates as an entity. Chaos corruption isn't just saying, "Lol fuk the Emperor," it's a PHYSICAL THING that will not only warp your mind but your very flesh as well, and cannot be cleansed at the spiritual level without destroying the individual in all but the most extremely rare of cases. Those who have been actually CORRUPTED (Not just rebelling or being hedonistic degenerates) have been permanently and physically altered by the Warp and their patron god and cannot be removed.

>>51750162
>I'd love to stop torturing you you but you know, something something spirit stones whatever.
>Shame really, guess I'll have to keep torturing you even though I really don't want to. SOrry pal, that's just how it is. Not my fault.

>>51750104

390 players for the LVO 40k Championship

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/3g2lr77k

145 for NOVA (highest attendance recorded, for the record was 228).

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2016/09/12/tits-tournaments-nova-open-2016-top-16-lists/

184 at last year's Adepticon.

http://www.adepticon.org/?page_id=10505

Blow it out your ass you know it all shit.

>>51750158
It's not bad, but it defeats the purposes of trying to indoctrinate new players into the Warhams.

You can't bilk money out of a normal gamer by throwing a pile of rules at him and saying "Suck my dick, customize your own shit".

If you can say "Look, this is Ghazghkull, he's cool and has a power claw, buy him and play now", then it's easier.

Shit like DOTA2 and LoL are successful because people willingly go out of their way to "identify" with a hero/champ and say "This is me, this is my champ".

People do the same thing in 40K with armies "I'm an Eldar player" etc, so they need to scale it down even more for 1 on 1 games.

>>51750083
LVO Winner's List:

Demons CAD

Fateweaver 300
The Masque 75
Brims 30
Brims 30
7 Screamers 175

Heralds Anarchic Formation

Lv. 3 Herald, Paradox, Disc 145
Lv. 1 Herald, Exalted, Disc 100
Lv. 1 Herald, 45

Renegades CAD

Command Squad, Nurgle, Ordnance Tyrant 85
3x Earthshakers 165
2x Wyverns 110
Wyvern 55
17 Plague Zombies 51
17 Plague Zombies 51
Quad Mortar 30
Quad Mortar 30
Quad Mortar 30
Quad Mortar 30
3x Rapier Laser Destroyer, additional crew, training 79
3x Rapier Laser Destroyer, additional crew, training 79
3x Rapier Laser Destroyer, additional crew, training 79
Skyshield Landing Pad 75

What are the stats on a Rapier, anyway? I've only found something from I think '13 that says it's 36" TL S9 AP2 Ordnance Heavy 1

>>51750139
Couple places (Faeit 212, Frontline, BaC, and BScribe's own data files) have made mention of emails from Forge World allowing it. It's not my primary list so it's not really an immediate concern, we'll see what/if Forge World answers with.

>>51748417
I started orks back at the start of 4th, around the time Dawn of War came out. Why orks? they were so different than the usual sci-fi races. They're space barbarians, mean and green and ded 'ard. Too bad our codexes have sucked since forever, barring a few strong AF lists like nob bikers were.

>>51750208
>bloodofkittens

Nice source, fag.

>>51750219

Here ya go you faggot.

http://www.novaopen.com/about-us

They cap the 40k tournament at 256.

>>51750211
The only people who play Eldar and say "I'm an Eldar player" are the ones probably get beat up and mugged by school bullies. Tau players, too.

>>51750144
I loved my oldcrons. I liked a lot of the new stuff but I always felt it was a bit off with the fluff and some of the new models (and the newer flayed ones they made were god awful)

>>51750211
It's a bit different with 40k as you have to built and paint your dudes, which lends it more towards a 'your dudes' mindset.

>>51750044
There are. I'm yet to see turquoise Marines though, although the new Thousand Sons scheme comes sort of close. Still a bit too blue though.

File: 1481141688098.gif (2MB, 236x224px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 236x224px

>>51749460
>we have Primarchs switching sides in the fluff atm

>>51749644
To be fair, it's any Psyker for Dark Channeling (handy if you get Latent Psyker), and Psykers are nice to have no matter what. It helps to have mix-match Marks too.

I do wish they got Crusader as their VOTLW bonus rather than requiring a Grand Host (maybe the Grand Host's bonus should have been +3 move for Daemons), but ah well.

>>51750044
Before the Lost and the Damned were the Lost and the Damned, they were (most signs point to) the Fire Drakes chapter (IIRC).

Go look them up, shitlord.

>>51750219
>>51750233

Here's another source just so you can wallow in your own shit.

http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/NOVA-Open-2016/1/leaderboard

>>51750240

I made my own custom flayed ones using extra warriors I got from ebay. They are not amazing but considering I wont have to buy those over priced models im happy with em.

>>51750215
The problem with FW emails is that the answer quite literally changes every time and are not actually official, and sometimes even proven wrong, such as when the 30k IW players got excited at the fact that a FW email stated that Iron Tyrants could be taken as both Elites and Heavy Support rather than just Heavy Support. Alan Bligh, the man who is in charge of HH, himself said he intended them as Heavy Support.

>>51750211
This is definitely the secret to getting 'tards to throw money at something.

Just grab 4 named warlords per faction.

>>51750264
>torrentoffire

You love unofficial sources. Explains your love of homebrew rule bending.

>>51750277
Great.

Well, looks like I'm gonna try and figure out how to fit Issodon's jacked-up role on the tabletop into my army instead of a bike squad.

>>51750215
I think the big problem with stuff like the problem of "Raptors and Raven Guard" equipment stems from Forgeworld and Games Workshop having two completely different design philosophies. Geedubs rules writers try to define every possible rules case(and often fail, as evidenced in exploits such as the cataphractii bikes), and establish a very firm RAW. They want everything to be very explicitly defined, and as a result everything gets so clunky that you need a law degree to play the game at the highest level. Then because they sit down and define every possible Use-case, their RAI gets muddied up and lost, so things ironically get even more confusing BECAUSE they defined too many things.

While forgeworld designers tend to operate on a "Make the RAI clear and the rules will be clear" philosophy. They actually answer questions and reveal their "Intentions" quite often, such as them issuing the emails that the Badab War Characters should be usable in the base formations("Just assume anything that's a Captain is a Captain, and so on and so forth"), and the ones where all of their dreadnoughts understandably just count as dreadnoughts.

>>51750109
"A Captain may replace his weapons from the Melee Weapons List"

>Thunder Hammer 30pts

My god you're fucking autistic. Relic Armor gives him 2+, 3++ from Gorgon's Chain, T5 from a bike. 2+++ FNP cause character, tactics, gorgon, detachment bonuses. 5++++ IWND because character.

>>51750162
Thats why I posted a mark of Slaanesh, since Slaanesh is the most depraved and malicious. This other anon is getting buttmad over it tho.

Also in the Path of the Warrior the Cammoraghan Striking Scorpion had to keep his past completely secret and had to elevate to the rank of Incubi as a Deldar before he got the chance to switch sides. The craftworlds are not accepting outsiders with open arms by any means.

>>51750204
Now you're just debating the semantics of slave, the majority of Dark Eldar have no power over their fates and their lives lie in the hands of overlords and other forms of master.

Telling me I dont get how Chaos works when you believe that all of chaos are unwillingly slaves to the dark gods is laughable. People fall to Chaos willingly, Horus did, the Primarchs did, plenty of mortals do. There are many untainted followers of the ruinous powers. If you were right, why would followers of chaos consider boons of chaos to be blessings?

Yes, Chaos forces can switch patron gods (unless they're an affiliated demon prince), that's just flat out wrong.

>>51750162
>But doesn't change the fact the craftworlders don't have enough spirit stones for them.

And yet they have a way out of their lifestyle. Maybe the spots on the boat are limited, but at least you can get on the boat in the first place.

Chaos corruption is also a physical thing that literally twists the very fabric of your DNA if you're exposed to it, and permanently binds your soul to the patron god in a variety of ways. The only only way that bond will be released is with the overpowering (and certain replacing of) of that corruption by another patron god. The only way you're going to stop being corrupted by Slaanesh is if you somehow fall into the service of Tzeentch, Khorne, or Nurgle (and good luck getting them to take you and get Slaanesh to let you go) or the Emperor somehow decides to cast your soul into his cleansing light and heal you, which has pretty much yet to ever be done.

So no, Dark Eldar are the most evil because they do all of the terrible shit that Chaos does, but without being permanently and fundamentally altered by inter-dimensional space hell and being forced to commit those actions on pain of complete and utter annihlation by an angry god you're supposed to be serving. Once you've been touched (even unwillingly) there is no going back except in the most rare and extreme of circumstances.

Dark Eldar have other alternatives. They may be harder to accomplish, but then again it's always easier to do the wrong thing than the right one.

>>51750294
Regular captains can't take cataphractii armor, which is what the convo was about.

>>51750214
AP 1 Ordnance actually. So it's basically a sawed-off Railgun for most intents and purposes. You're basically getting 3 for about the cost of a single Broadside and they're T7 vs shooting because Artillery.

Don't forget the Earthshakers and Quad Mortars can shoot into melee.

>>51750290

Explains your total inability to refute the fact that the LVO is the largest 40k tournament in the world.

Space Marines were a mistake.

>>51750211
Well nothing stops GW from then just porting unique characters over to that new game.

Sell it as starter packs with 2 faction characters, similar to the board games, that allow for customization or to alternatively build some unique character. Like for example an Ultramarines vs Black Legion starter pack that lets you build Sicarius and, for lack of characters even if it obviously wouldn't work balance wise, Abbaddon or alternatively has a bunch of extra bits for each side that lets you put together your own hero. Throw in a small arena table thing and a rulebook, which contains how to play it, how to build your hero and rules for all weapons and you have a bundle. Then make like 4 of them, maybe like Eldar vs Dark Eldar and Tau vs Necrons or something to have some variety and sell an expansion rule book that just contains the rules for all unique characters not included in the starter packs.
Sell the starter packs for 30-40$ and the expansion book for 15$ and you could start an easy secondary game while appeasing normal players since it'd include a bunch of new bits and poses for their normal armies.

>>51750204
>You still fundamentally do not understand how Chaos operates as an entity. Chaos corruption isn't just saying, "Lol fuk the Emperor," it's a PHYSICAL THING that will not only warp your mind but your very flesh as well, and cannot be cleansed at the spiritual level without destroying the individual in all but the most extremely rare of cases. Those who have been actually CORRUPTED (Not just rebelling or being hedonistic degenerates) have been permanently and physically altered by the Warp and their patron god and cannot be removed.

Not him but Abaddon and the Black Legion were separated from Chaos by the Daemons. The possessed died as the daemons comprising half of their bodies poofed away but Abaddon and the other CSM kept on going. It's even said, IIRC, Abaddon was strong with or without the Chaos Gods backing him. There is the famous moment where the Emperor banished the taint of Chaos from Horus and restored his sanity.

There are Xeno examples also. In legends, Arha reject the corruption of Chaos and died pure. Kais got tainted by Khornate rage in the final fight but centered himself and attained inner peace and then banished the Chaos taint from his mind and soul.

>>51750207
>I'd love to not eat you, mister cow, but something something non vegan diets are cheaper
>Shame really, guess I'll just keep eating meat.

>>51750321
>in the world

kek

>>51750352

You still haven't refuted or posted a larger event. Please post (with a source) a 40k tournament with more than 390 participants.

>>51750341
Exactly, see how much of a faggot you sound like? You eat meat because you want to, not because you're forced to. Thanks for proving my point.

>>51750330
>put together your own hero

Noooooo.

This defeats the entire purpose.

File: term_facepalm.png (30KB, 170x149px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 170x149px

>>51750294
Page 54, Angels of Death

Cataphractii Terminator Captain - 120pts
>May take items from the Terminator Weapons lists

File: Illic Nightspear.jpg (55KB, 600x436px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 600x436px

>>51750302
>So no, Dark Eldar are the most evil

Illic is a thousands of years old Eldar. He has been around and he says that the evil of the Dark Eldar and Chaos pales before the soulless evil of the Necrons. The Necrons are evil incarnate. Dark Eldar can feel empathy and love, they can be redeemed. Chaos can possess some noble traits buried beneath the madness. Necrons on the other hand are utterly and irredeemable evil.

>>51750355
My pub had one just the other day with 391.

>>51749248
>>51749291
Night Lords aren't the Raptor legion. They just have the most Raptors.

They're edgy generalists that murder/rape easy targets.

>>51750374

Post some proof there.

>>51750243
It's kind of not.

That's why named/pre-built characters have gotten dramatically more popular and accepted as time's gone on.

>>51750318
What's the source book for these stats? I wanna see what shenanigans I can pull off with some cheap-o conscript blobs trying to tie up HVTs so I can call in arty danger close.

>>51750302
>All the terrible shit
>Aren't followers and agents of the chaos gods
>Have no choice, are mass cloned into this lifestyle, if they stop they will die and suffer for literal eternity, unlike humans who generally wiff out of existence in the warp.
>Can't escape without amassing enough wealth and influence to get a spirit stone, requiring unfathomable brutality

>Destroy a secular nation that was humanities best hope of survival because MUH...MUH..Uh...uhm. Hm.
>Literally agents of gods that thirst for suffering trying to cause as much of it as possible.
>chose this
>less evil than the slaves of fate, despite being objectively worse on a far greater scale
???? What did he mean by this ????