/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

FIRST FOR MAGE SUPREMACY

Galatean Promethean, obviously.

Got a link to Conquering Heroes?

>>51744412
Acanthus Supremacy is best Supremacy

>>51744380
>M20 Entry on Cybernetics
>Despite the dated overuse of “cyber” as an adjective, cybernetics remains a bleeding-edge discipline. Rooted in Chinese, Greek, and Arab technologies, this discipline blossomed during the Industrial Revolution and hasn’t stopped blooming yet.

>Chinese, Greek, and Arab technologies
Uh, like what? Seriously, I would like to know what is being referenced here.

I get that "cyber" was originally a Greek word, but is there any contribution apart from that? What the fuck did the Chinese or Arabs ever add?

And in any case, with the far more obvious root of these technologies being American, British, and Japanese, why bother to mention such tenuous contributions?

>>51744611
As powerful as Acanthus are, I really just dislike their whole concept. Fate Magic cannot do anything that couldn't "naturally" happen, and Time is honestly just pretty straightforward in its application.

You can't use Fate to create complicated gravity funnels to trap furious Uratha in midair.
You can't liquify the ground beneath someone's feet then cause it to rise up and endvelop them before hardening again.
Or modify your own body into a gilled, webbed aquatic form to investigate underwater mysteries.

It's just not Magical enough for me.

>>51744744

I assume the book is talking about the entire history of cybernetics, in which case the technological advances of the Greeks, the Arabs, and the Chinese would play a part. I mean, that's still way too broad a history for something that most people associate with the 80s and 90s, and forgets the contributions of France and Chile, but I guess I could see where the author was going with it.

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>>51744412
>MAGE SUPREMACY
that's what every mage thinks until a werewolf tears their throat out

>>51744744
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics#Roots_of_cybernetic_theory

Basically cybernetics did not mean what you think it means.

I'm mad that Soviet cybernetics aren't mentioned in your post by the way.

>>51744813

How adorable, poodles with delusions of grandeur.

>>51744753
>Fate Magic cannot do anything that couldn't "naturally" happen

Fate can do a lot of weird shit that shouldn't be conceivably possible, Anon.

>>51744753
Fate 5 lets you do shit like rain of frogs.

>>51744856
I'll concede that Swarm of Locusts can cause near impossible and obviously supernatural events on a whim.

But that's merely supernatural in the timing. All of those things could still have possibly occured by themselves.

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>Hey, sorry about all the genocide and stuff.
>But it really was your fault too, y'know.

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>>51744753

>Fate not magical enough

I think you're just fucking retarded

>>51744753
>It's just not Magical enough for me.
Where as for me, it's the most Magical path. Just something about *knowing* and being able to just let things fall where they or, more likely you made them fall. Oaths and predictions, destiny and decisions simply appeals to me on a visceral level.

>>51744811
>>51744834
I see no mention of the Chinese or Arabs in the history there. Again, Greeks did create the term, but apart from the extremely tenuous contribution of a water clock, have done nothing to add to the field.

What I /do/ see are a shitload of British, American, and French contributors.

Sorry White Wolf/Onyx Path, it's glaringly obvious that white people did the vast majority of work here, and shirking them of credit is pretty fucking dumb.

>>51744813
>>51744903

THE WEREFAGS NEED TO FUCK RIGHT OFF

How are vampires initiated into the whole wyrm worship thing? I kind of want to bring back a PC from a previous masquerade as an antagonist in my werewolf game, but not really sure how any vampire would get from point a to b.

>>51744744
>>51744834

Despite the widely acknowledged acceptance of what "cybernetics" connotes in our modern lexicon, WW, particularly in the oWOD, always attempts to ensure history and characters and presented as necessarily and sufficiently "multicultural" and "diverse."

Minorities are all magical and inherently virtuous, and white people are villains.

If the cybernetics comments was a one-off it would be immaterial. However, political and social biases of WW authors are rarely subtle or restrained, and Brucato is notably one of the biggest self-righteous douches in the entire WW stable, past and present. This is particularly troubling considering the man need to beg on Patreon to pay his rent. "Successful" and "insightful" are certainly not the adjectives most people would use to describe Phil.

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>>51744969
*awoos seductively at u*

>>51744997
I thought it was tied to the Path of Evil Revelations or something.

>>51744904
>Fate not magical enough

I think the Anon is really complaining that Fate is often too subtle for him to consider it magical. I would assume he prefers the generally far more flashy abilities of Obrimos or Moros.

>>51744890
>frog rain

>laughing Obrimos<

>>51744848
you're the foolish one who thinks he could best a werewolf, you pathetic weakling

>>51745033
>*awoos seductively at u*
GIVE HIM THE KNOT

>>51745073
>you're the foolish one who thinks he could best a werewolf

Sorry that your werefag friend got stuck in Ban and couldn't escape cuz Spirit. His butt got probed that night by cackling Mystagouges.

>>51745073

Virtually any mage will readily best a comparably experienced werewolf, and a Thyrsus would just embarrass the mongrel.

>>51745073
Werewolves beating a prepared Thyrsus? You are just too fuckin' funny, Anon.

>>51745134
>His butt got probed that night by cackling Mystagouges.

There's nothing like the smell of vivisected lycanthropes in the morning.

>>51745154
>>51745138
>dead mages in waiting

>>51745134
>got the knot, now butthurt the werewolf didn't kill him to end his suffering

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>>51744813

>yfw no werewolf bf taking you to pound town while in Crinos

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>>51745170
>got the knot
no, they ran a knotted train on him

>>51745173
RIP, instead of riiiip

>>51745173

I might have laughed a bit too much at this

>>51744380
So I'm using a different system like Urban Shadows and transplanting the WoD/CoD fluff to play a monster mash. Which of the WoD/CoD factions make the most sense as pan-racial factions? (Faction is more important than race, btw)

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>>51745170
Delusional fucking werefag.

Bow before your rightful overlords!

>>51745230
I'm sorry, I don't bow before someone whose head I can squash like a grape without a second thought

>>51745170

You need to read The Pack, and the section detailing how werewolves who interfere with mages tend to suffer fates worse than death.

Considering this acknowledgment was actually in a Forsaken book, it amply demonstrates the stark reality of #magesupremacy.

However, don't feel bad little doggy, at least you're probably tougher than those blood-sucking undead parasites and wimpy fairies.

>>51745258
>Implying the werewolf could even reach the mage in time

>>51745262
The flesh/spirit thing and constant shapeshifting at least mean's that they're not likely to get lawnchaired.

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>>51745262

>playing cofd

>>51745262
That book also flat-out stated that apprentice Spirit Mages are better than Uratha Elders at what they do.

>Mage Supremacy

>>51745283
You think you can out clash a Mage's will?

Have fun being a lawn chair for an indefinite amount of time.

>>51745286

Ah, lovely Sweet Shalquoir.

>>51744998
White skin is probably the mark of caine according to some rabbi text I vaguely remember.

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>>51745305
Sure thing Mr Third-Degree Adept.

>>51745287

Are they mechanically? What xp values determine an apprentice and elder?

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>>51745345
>Wine Rack

Even better!

>>51745345
Wouldn't staying conscious despite being lawnchaired require Mind as well?

>>51745287
they're also a lot better at getting eviscerated
>mage supremacy indeed

>>51745274
>Implying they'd even see a werewolf coming
maybe cumming when they run a train on you, hope you like the knot

>>51745305
>at this moment, he botched

>>51745345

>this is my fetish

Magefags need a containment thread on /d/

>>51745386

You are beyond salvation if you think dirty dogs are anything more than wine racks.

Ever think that the magefags are yanderes in denial and secretly dream about knots?

>>51745520

Yes, the lads doth protest too much.

>>51745262
The same book has a lodge that mutilates Mages souls and sticks them in an extra dimensional prison then use them as troops.

>>51745569

I can't imagine just how many werewolves died trying to contain a single mage.

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>>51744969
no

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What is he in WoD/CofD?

>>51745638
Purified.

>>51744380
how do you think the flint michigan water disaster went down in WoD? This being WoD, I'm thinking they drank the lead water until they all died of lead poisoning, because it was all a Pentex plot they advertised on their facebook page. "Drink lead water! It's 100% inorganic and 100% toxic! Buy today!"

That's Invader Zim levels of stupidity but it's pretty much the only way Pentex is able to get away with successfully killing the entire population of Flint, Michigan.

How the hell is humanity not dead of toxic waste poisoning?

>>51745605
None - lodges can have no-sell abilities against their prey. One of the sample lodges doesn't even specifically focus on beasts but can entirely negate half of the beast power set. A Mage hunter lodge is probably untouchable with magic.

Could you use Time to 'hang' an action like you hang a spell?

The idea is to cast the spell on myself with the conditional duration to activate when I attack somebody.

Then I'll do Potency # of attacks on a training dummy, Next time I get into a fight I can punch a dude and he'll get hit by a second attack.

>>51745386
>>51745605
Didn't Dave state beforehand that a single Thyrsus is the worst possible enemy for a pack to face?

>>51745723
>A Mage hunter lodge is probably untouchable with magic
That's funny. Because Mages specialize in no-selling other splat powers. Your lodge is going to be useless when they can't do anything due to the Spirit Arcanum,

I'm also fairly certain that you're over-exaggerating.

>>51745723
>evident fanfiction

I spotted the biased werefag.

>>51745723

Yeah, that's not how it works.

>>51745738
That's not how Time works.
You can create a Temporal Pocket, and Hang that spell so when you punch someone it freezes time for a few seconds, enough to hit them again.

>>51745723
I think you're overestimating how Lodges work, Anon.

>>51744380
I wanted to continue the line of discussion about making the Weaver and Wyrm morally ambiguous. What camps are already written about who do this and how can we write them bigger roles?

>>51746067

There is nothing ambigious about the Wyrm and its a hard sell to make it otherwise.

>>51746187
>>51746067
>Wyrm
The only real ambiguity of the Wyrm is that technically it's not its fault because Weaver drove it insane. One thing you could do is make it so that a small shred of the old Balance Wyrm actually did escape from the Weaver's web, although Garou don't realize that it isn't batshit insane. Werespiders actually get some Balance Wyrm powers, IIRC.

>Weaver
Everything the Weaver has done with humanity in modern times is basically in retaliation for the Impergium. Humans are her pets and the Garou treated them badly, now she really dislikes them. Also, you could say that the Weaver still hates the Wyrm because of stuff like pollution slowing down expansion, etc.

Magefags really hammering down the Werefags

Not sure which side to take.

>>51746308

Iirc one Apocalypse ending was the Perfect Metis becoming the avatar for the Balance Wyrm and getting untainted powers and Gifts from it??

>>51746308

The Weaver is also insane though and warped her own cosmic function. Plus you have Queen Ananasa acting like a plot device for this, or a mary sue depending on who you ask.

And you might be right on the werespider Gifts but I can't recall off the top of my head. Try checking their breed book??

>>51746340

It doesn't matter, we will keep circlibg the same shitposts until something new comes out to ridicule.

>>51746340
The side of the real secret master of reality, the God-Machine.

>>51746187
>>51746308
I understand that it would require rewriting the setting. I don't like the canon antagonists or protagonists for reasons that others have explored at length.

For example, maybe Kupala could be retconned as a Wyld spirit. An evil Wyld spirit who taints the land, causes madness and mutations, and patronizes the Tzimisce, but a Wyld spirit nonetheless.

>>51745154
>Werewolves beating a prepared Thyrsus? You are just too fuckin' funny, Anon.
It's pretty easy considering there's nothing it can really do against five monsters slaughtering them.

Thyrsus could defend against a totem but not a pack.

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>>51746353
>>51746308
From the wiki:

Wyrmspawn, the Perfect Metis, Possessed Black Spiral Dancer
Breed: Metis
Auspice: Ahroun
Tribe: Black Spiral Dancers
Rank: 6
Physical: Strength 8 (10/12/11/9), Dexterity 6 (6/7/8/8), Stamina 8 (10/11/11/10)
Social: Charisma 5, Manipulation 4 (3/1/1/1), Appearance 5 (4/0/5/5)
Mental: Perception 5, Intelligence 4, Wits 5
Talents: Alertness 5, Athletics 5, Brawl 5, Dodge 5, Intimidation 5
Skills: Leadership 5, Melee 5
Knowledges: Enigmas 5, Occult 5, Rituals 5
Backgrounds: Allies 5, Consecrated 5, Fetish 5, Rites 5, Symbiosis 5
Rage: 10
Gnosis: 10
Willpower: 10
Gifts: (1) Bane Protector, Inspiration, Sense Wyrm; (2) Horns of the Impaler, Spirit of the Fray, Wyrm Hide; (3) Combat Healing, Dagger of the Mind; (4) Open Wounds, Stoking Fury's Furnace; (5) Avatar of the Wyrm.
Powers: Enhanced Attributes (+3 Strength, +1 Dexterity, +3 Stamina), Horror (supernatural version), Sense Gaia, Thick Skin x 5, Triatis Sense, Voice of the Wyrm
Merits and Flaws: Huge Size, Iron Will
Taints: None

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>>51745638
In WoD he's a Verbena with Natural Channel who awakened and spent his time training in the Umbra and now fights Nephandi using Spirit and Prime to summon/create martial icons out European fury.

In CoD he's probably an Obrimos or Thyrsus with similar tendencies only directed against the Seers of the Throne. His Order is probably Adamantine Arrow. Oh and it goes without saying his favorite yantra is High Speech.

>>51744903

>I'll accept your apology if you let me taste the knot.

>>51745619

>tfw will never play a campaign as a trenchcoat-concealed metis cub that was taken on by a group of Hunters as their mascot.

>>51746401

Your stated objective is to make people feel bad for killing the things and people that produce shit put of Freak Legion. Irs just going to leave a bitter taste when you WoW Orcs a bunch of malevolent cosmic entities.

The setting and the fate of the Weaver and Wyrm is already tragic, but thems the breaks.

>>51746420

So you're applying a whole group of werewolves against a single mage? That just boosts my ego even more. How else could you take one down?

>Mage Supremacy

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>>51745262
>You need to read The Pack, and the section detailing how werewolves who interfere with mages tend to suffer fates worse than death.
It doesn't say anything like that.

>The Kitsune were first introduced in the Appendix of Caerns: Places of Power, where they are portrayed differently. Here, they are servants of the Wyrm of Balance that fight against both Weaver and Wyld, unaffiliated with any larger shapeshifter community.

Huh?

>>51746478
Even Dave said one werewolf could tear a mage to shreds.

>>51746500
The rules disagree.

>>51746484
>"Apprentice mages can work spirit magic even elder werewolves can't"

>"interfering with a mage is a great way to find out which fates are worse than death"

Did a Mage writer infiltrate Werewolf? Fucking disgusting, Never have I seen such blatant mage wank.

>>51746401
If you want an evil/morally ambiguous Wyld, Warhammer's ruinous powers have you covered. Raising the dead in defiance of the natural order is one of Nurgle's many past times.

God, I would love a campaign where the heroic Chaos Werewolves fight those crazy Black Spirals and those filthy hypocrite Garou who profane the Wyld.

>>51746473
Tragic is boring. Blood for the blood god! Skulls for the skull throne! Corn for the cornflakes!

>>51746500
Yeah, he said a dumbass mage trying to nuke a werewolf would die. Something about a wizard's spleen flying across the room.

The problem is, that's not how you 1v1 a werewolf. You lock them down without any room for escape. Then you proceed to dissect them. He also mentioned that a single Thyrsus would be the worst possible enemy for a whole pack, but that's just his opinion.

>>51746514
>Did a Mage writer infiltrate Werewolf? Fucking disgusting, Never have I seen such blatant mage wank.
You've been wanking over mage the whole thread.

>>51746544
Yes, I do love to jerk it over their corpses.

>>51746473
Then we rewrite that or make a separate faction. Do you garoufags not understand how to rewrite stuff to be morally ambiguous?

>>51746537
>The problem is, that's not how you 1v1 a werewolf. You lock them down without any room for escape.
Which can't be done, since only changelins are better escape artists.
>Then you proceed to dissect them.
Also laughable
>He also mentioned that a single Thyrsus would be the worst possible enemy for a whole pack, but that's just his opinion.
It would fuck up their totem, which is important to them. Like you don't want a vampire dating your sister.

>>51746537
>You lock them down without any room for escape
Can all werewolves instinctively hop into the Shadow or do you need to find a specific weak are of the Gauntlet? If so, Ban becomes the ultimate time out until death rage runs out (or air, whatever).

>>51746572
Most werewolves, there's also a gift and fetishes that allow them to escape magic bonds. Or they could just grow.

>>51745154
If the mage has time to prepare, and a chance to see it coming, the werewolves dun goofed. The pack is the best tool they have that includes the humans. The humans who are numerous, can walk right up to a mage, and slip GHB or any other number of drugs right into Magic Man's coffee, tea, or me. After the mage is drugged without realizing what happened, out cold, and helpless. It's a simple matter for the wolves to move in for the kill and splat. One dead mage.

>>51746572
>>51746589
>using Gifts
It's a hopeful idea, until you realize the Mage also has Spirit.

>>51746603
So you're using back-handed alternatives now? We're discussing white-room scenarios. You're only flaunting mage wank even more.

>>51746603

All that to defeat a single Mage?

>Mage Supremacy

Can mages cure vampirism?

>>51746684
oWoD - Yes, of course
nWoD - No, not without Archmastery

>>51746559
Again, the antiheroes are Chaos Space Wolves, Technocracy, and Forsaken. The villains are the Garou Nation, Pentex and Skynet. They all hate each other.

>>51746684
No. They can alleviate the symptoms somewhat but the root cause is untouchable to them. That goes for all major splats.

>>51746645
If it's a fair fight, you already did something wrong. Fair fights are for martial arts tournaments. If your in one, you already lost. Mages are sneaky bastards who will use their sneaky magic to their advantage. The best chance to win is to render them unconscious then kill them. Best way to do that is to use a plant who won't ping on mage sight to drug them. Then carry them out and put them down. Going toe to toe risks a fair fight.

>>51746589
>that allow them to escape magic bonds. Or they could just grow.

That's the beauty of ban, it isn't bond or restraint. You can't over power it or get bigger than it since space is folded around you. The only way out is reality jumping of your own, which several splats can do but if you aren't very good at it you'll probably be stuck.

I only read the clan fluffs and background in WtF so I could keep up with a friend in my group's discussing it so I don't know mechanically how going into the Shadow works but my gut says it might be one of the ways out. The question is how easy is it to do?

>>51746729
So far, one of my favorites is simply reversing gravity while out in the open.

>>51746727
Define "fair fight" for me, will you? Each gameline has their own definition of white-room combat.

>>51746569
DaveB on werewolves and mages

http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/46168782/#46186848

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/changeling-the-lost/1009776-how-do-changelings-and-mages-feel-about-each-other/page2

>>51746785
One on one combat, both combatants fully capable of fighting to the best of their ability.

>>51746727
Doesn't work nearly so well on Acanthus or anyone that's on friendly terms with one. Mastigos might also be a problem. Likely suicidal when tried on a competent Thyrsus.

>>51746795
Dave is wise, and settles arguments before they even begin.

He also loathes white-room combat, and would no-doubt be shaking his head right now.

ITT: whiteboxing general

>>51746805
Where is the fight taking place? White-rooms aren't literally white rooms.

One of the most terrifying abilities of mage, even those without any creativity at all, is the near unique ability to inflict a minimum of 4+ levels of direct aggravated damage at range, often without any Defense allowed against the attack, at 4 dots in any Arcana.

All mages also have multiples means of a quick and easy escape when presented with a powerful opponent. If the mage escapes, and then has both time and knowledge, that opponent best update his will and say goodbye to friends and family.

The only real way to prevail against a mage is to totally surprise him while he's alone and kill him in one round. This is much easier said than done as mages are notoriously paranoid. If you don't manage to get the quick kill, congratulations, you've probably just committed suicide by mage.

Do getting successes on an attack roll for chrod give you something? Besides damage

>>51746900

Dont mages need arcanum 4 to deal aggravated?

Just wanted to note than many mages can actually banish their adversaries to featureless white room or their equivalent (or worse).

I also think given werewolves usually fight in packs, and mages maintain cabals for mutual protection, the more "realistic" combat scenario is pack versus cabal. I believe werewolves would fare far worse under such conditions.

>>51746978

Cabals don't even need to leave the safety of their sanctums to ruin a Pack utterly and entirely.

>>51746779
That also is doable with space, I was just thinking of a time out box but yeah.

>>51746967
>Dont mages need arcanum 4 to deal aggravated?

Yes, I noted that in my post.

At 4 dots, a mage can not only deal aggravated damage, but they can do so at great distances (sometimes not even needing to be physically present), and the attack often does not allow any Defense.

At mastery, with the save or die spells, and the ability to ignore Withstand with an Exceptional Success (and minimum 10+ dice pool), mages can rarely be challenged at all.

If Mages are so great why can none of you find games to play them in?

>>51747071
>implying I'm not running Ascension weekly

>>51747093

My condolences, you poor stupid bastard.

>>51747071

I'm playing as a mage in two crossover chronicles, though they aren't very strong because I'm bad at optimizing and new to the system (especially compared to the ananasi who can get 11 actions).

>>51746997
>Cabals don't even need to leave the safety of their sanctums to ruin a Pack utterly and entirely.

I simply don't understand the need for mages to bully werewolves. It's little more than animal cruelty, and unbecoming of superior beings.

Mages have far more important things to deal with, and with a bit of flattery and some initiate-level parlor tricks, werewolves could be made into excellent minions and servants.

>tfw oWoD's fictional RPGs actually sound kinda fun

These would be much better April Fools jokes than what WW/OPP usually does.

>>51746869
Any terrain or feature that would give no advantage to one party over the other. So we have to eliminate populated cities as that would weaken the mage, or forests which would be of benefit to the Werewolf. The Werewolf gains the most advantage from terrain so assuming suburban environment.

Theoretically, if the wyrm wins and destroys everything, will it attempt to destroy itself? I know the different aspects of itself fight against one another but what if only one part of the wyrm exists. Will it then attempt to kill itself as its the only thing left to destroy?

>>51747107

>owod crossover
>allowing werespiders AND mages

Sounds like a clusterfuck desu

>>51747071
Slept with the wrong girl so now everyone in my age group across town hates me, and since I live in the boonies that's the only age group interested in ttrpgs.

My 20's are off to a rough start.

>>51747148

We don't know. The BSDs think he might be reborn into a proper and whole state, the Hengeyokai believe the world will keep on keeping on as the next age is ushered in.

Its notably the Garou who are certain its the End Of All Things.

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>>51747173

>>51747173
Sorry to hear all of that, Anon.

Why not play online instead, hmm?

>>51747150

The spider player is autistic and only likes vampires/ananasi so I would rather he play that rather than a shitty vampire (my previous vampire died because we are fighting bullshit strong enemies and aggravated damage + hard to get blood + no time to heal is painful for vampires)

>>51747240
>The spider player is autistic

How autistic are we talking here?

>>51747255

He wants to play an antiribu lasombra that was in torpor for a hundred years for the game I'm going to run, I fucking hate this guy.

>>51747230
I'm wary of bad online groups.

>>51747319
Idk, I'd take a few trash games in order to find a decent one over no game whatsoever any day, but that may just be me.

Are the magefags gone?

>>51747462
No, but an Avatar Storm cut them off from their Archshitposters.

>>51747474

>not giving all of your mages the stormwarden merit

>>51747474

Duuuude, risky comment. Don't fan the embers.

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>>51747485
Storm Wardens?

>>51747490
Too late

>>51747474
Caine sucks Archmage dong, get over it. Nothing more than a lawn chair warmed by the ass of an Oracle.

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>>51747506

Yes

>>51747546

Is that Iron Man?

Is there any alternative setting for Werewolf The Apocalypse (or any game for that matter) than the fans don't scorn as heresy and badwrongfun? Every single time someone brings up the idea of changing any game setting everyone shitposts. Why?

>>51747572
The Invincible Iron-Mage

>>51747593
A suit of Perfected Materials would actually be really fucking cool.

>>51747609
You need high Matter and Forces and a lot of time to make the suit, but then you could fly around in your badass armor and shoot 'repulsors' at people with Forces. And maybe some other gross arcanum for more blatant magic showing off.

>>51747275
Thanks dad

>For the Kuei-jin, the concept of a "Clan" in which you are Embraced is alien. Like most Cainites do not differ between the various dharmas of the Cathayans, so do most Kuei-jin believe that the Kin-jin are all the same. Recent contact, however, challenged that claim. Bone Flowers have taken up study of the various "dharmas" that the western vampires seem to adhere. These dharmas are seen as even less than the heretical dharmas, given that no Cainite has ever progressed beyond the state of hin and their general ignorance of the spirit world, obvious marks of failure in the eyes of the Kuei-jin. To date, they have classified seven.
>The Hundred-Mask Clowns, referring to Clan Ravnos
>The Shameful Path of the Ghost Bully, referring to Clan Giovanni
>The Silent Tiger Brotherhood, likely referring to Clan Assamite
>The Rut of the Pretentious Geisha, likely referring to Clan Toreador
>The Way of the Insufferable Flesh Gardners, likely referring to Clan Tzimisce
>The Inauspicious Order of Blood Devils, likely referring to Clan Tremere
>The Thousand Charming Company Men, likely referring to the Clan Ventrue

>During the Victorian Era, the Bone Flowers also studied the Paths of Enlightenment under the umbrella term Dharmas of the Unexamined Horizon, before declaring them hoaxes.

lol(?)

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>>51746340

Go Hunter Anon. Kick the ass of the loudest one.... Yes, the Mages.

>>51747577
WTA can work as a D&D-esque setting because the Triat map to three-point alignment.

I wouldn't mind running cyberpunk WoD either.

>>51747797
>I wouldn't mind running cyberpunk WoD either.
There's World of Future Darkness, which lays a pretty great framework.
It would be better if all my players weren't complete garbage

>>51747849

Not my fault you're a bad ST.

>>51747792
>lolhunters

Get out of here!

>>51747908
There's a reason why, even with all that magical potential. Mages can still be hunted.

>>51747965

By hunters? Not likely. Just use hedge witches instead.

>>51747980

Oh, i dunno. Plenty of stories of Smug, cocky, sorcerers , mages etc. Getting bested by some commoner/ Farmer, non-magical human. That just wanted to protect his family, village or city.

Much to the mages disbelief, thinking such an inferior human bested him. " Impossible!.... How could he?!... I am " Insert Mage Name."

>>51748111
If the mage is stupid, he's definitely capable of being killed by normal people, but it's on him to fuck up.

Yeah Mage supremacists are bad but don't you think werefags and vampfags are just as bad? In fact I think they're even worse they should fuck off our general or at least admit they're inferior in every single way

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>>51748111
Hah, stereotypical Sword & Sorcery.

Mage isn't Sword & Sorcery.

>>51748302

If it was it might actually be good!

>>51748157

Which is a common thing among mages. "Hubris"

>>51748111
And that's because the author, the story, the narrative, the in-universe Powers-That-Be, destiny, fate, the audience, et-fucking-cetera were all on the side of our young plucky farmer-turned-hero.

And this is what it always comes down to. Whether here or in the wizard supremacy threads of DnD3.pf and others, the mages win by simply showing up and being mages. The opponents need to win by stacking everything and the kitchen sink in their favor on top of making the mage a drooling retard, and maybe, just maybe then they stand a small chance of prevailing. If the stars align, the heavens part, the mountains sing, the tides recede, the oceans boil and the winds howl in laughter, if all the omens are just right and the 7th child of a 14th son and a 12th daughter wails on a full moon, this normal guy can take on a mage and win easily. So, take that mage supremacists. Not so powerful now? It's always just so fucking pathetic.

>>51748525
>mage boner

>>51748525

I'm just saying when your on top for too long or at least think you are, your gonna get lazy. Your gonna over-look or under -estimate some things that you shouldn't. This is also a problem for Vamps.

Wisdom is something mages struggle to hold on to and why Paradox is a thing.

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mages are humans. they have human weaknesses.

>>51748819
Like cyanide! Unless they're a Life mage, or Matter expecting to be poisoned I guess.

>>51748862

or if they have friends who are life or matter mages, which every mage does pretty much lol

>>51748928
are you implying mages are always surrounded by other mages 100% of the time?

>>51748950

mages hunt in packs

>>51748958
they do not. mages are not always surrounded by their allies

>>51748819
>mages have human weaknesses

Which is why they're the best splat.

>>51748993

mages are not only supported by their colleagues, they also have spirit allies and those from other splats that they have attracted with their incredible power and sex appeal

>>51749027

I believe that upon Awakening, the Wise fart rainbows and shit skittles as a template ability.

>>51747980
You just need a Mage to not expect the sniper rifle.

>>51748928
Honestly a fast acting poison slipped to a non-Life skilled mage might really be the easiest way to kill one. You just need to do it through an intermediary who doesn't know, in case they're able to use Mind to read thoughts.

No magic needed, just cunning.

>>51749392
An Acanthus can still, maybe, see it coming. And the Acanthus need not be the mage in question. It could just be a friend of the mage or someone who owes them one. One phone call and the cunning plan is foiled.

>>51748819
Unless they don't, because of easy access to reality altering magic.

>>51749140
>>51749392
>Anons resorting to petty backstabbing

Just admit it. Mages are monstrous to confront 1v1. Nothing wrong with losing to Gandalf.

>>51749416
>maybe see it coming

No. An Acanthus WILL see it coming. You don't even need to be an Acanthus.

>>51749505
Dude.
We were talking Hunters.
If Hunters fight fair they risk losing to literally a random guy off the street.

>>51748157
>Literally what is Hubris, Wisdom, and all the other fucking mechanics of Mage.

Being dumb because of overconfidence, naivety, pride, arrogance or just plain stupidity is literally an intrinsic part of being a mage.

>>51749586
Except that Mages fight far dirtier than any Hunter.

>>51749605
You seem to be laboring under the delusion that all Mages are asinine baboons. You're not even close to being correct.

>>51749505
It always leads back to this >>51748525

The simple fact that those going up against mages need perfect information, flawless planning, masterful execution, convenient timing, numerous contingencies, every advantages stacked in their favor while facing a retarded mage that happens to be blind, death, short-sighted with no friends or allies and no access to magical or mundane trinkets. This is almost always the set-up and I find it just proves the point that mages are terrifyingly more powerful and never easy prey. Those targeting them, seeing as they need all those advantages to even stand a chance, are simply fish in a barrel if and when mages come looking for them.

>>51749648
>Except that Mages fight far dirtier than any Hunter.

Doesn't matter if the Mage doesn't know there's a fight, which is the whole point.
Muggles tend to slip below mage notice, and that's how you get the drop on one.

It's like a mouse with a crossbow.

>You seem to be laboring under the delusion that all Mages are asinine baboons. You're not even close to being correct.

Anon, pride and arrogance affecting your world view to a point where it changes your behaviour is literally a game mechanic.
That is literally how big a part of mage behaviour it is.

>>51749676
but in magefag posts the mages are all extremely well adjusted individuals, with complete knowledge of the situation at hand, omni-talented, with a circle of other equally brilliant mages that are happy to share and help other mages at the drop of the hat with nothing needed from them

>>51749725
Don't forget that they have also always set up multiple contingencies for the specific plan that their opponent has in mind, and that they are never confronted on more than one front.

>>51749710
Holy hell. I have never seen someone biased enough to actually consider the thought of Hunters being anything more than disgusting cockroaches.

>>51749748
You are playing the part too well anon, it took me a second to realize you were being facetious.

>>51746694
>oWoD
No. Vampirism is a curse from God. Can you roll more successes than god?

>>51749710
>Doesn't matter if the Mage doesn't know there's a fight
If there's a fight involved the Hunter is going to die against the Mage. You can't argue this. Either he somehow manages to kill the wizard in on-go or just doesn't, and that's far easier said than done. Only an idiot sorcerer is going to leave his home unprotected.

>pride and arrogance being a game mechanic
I fail to see how that makes every Mage a moronic pansy?

>>51749784
No matter how insufferable a Mage gets, all it takes is on Kindred sweet talking them when the Mage had a stressful night and it's done

>>51749780
There are Rotes for removing Vampirism, Anon.
One of which (Archmage Rote - Prime 6) can remove any curse of God, not exclusive to Vampirism.

>>51749819

Curse of God removal requires Entropy 4, Life 4, Matter 4, Prime 6

>>51749784
Anon, you seem to be the under the twin delusions that A: The plan was to give the mage a chance to strike back and B: That not planning for literally everything makes one a moronic pansy.

Not giving notice to mundane threats because you're concerned with more "important" stuff is fairly typical mage stuff, and that's exploitable.

Also hunters, like vampires, have tools that the mage just straight up cannot resist.

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DaveB and his opinion on the matter

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/644997-hunters-vs-mages

>>51747275
But that doesn't sound off lore wise at at all, A lasombra coming out of prolonged torpor from before the Anarch revolt would be a fairly good candidate for an anti Lasombra. And even then Its not like Anti Lasombra are unheard of or even stated to not exist, Its not like he wants to be an Anti Tzmiz or Anti Salubri who's not part of the Sabbat

>>51749915
>"In short, only use the Awakened as adversaries in Tier 3 games, and even then be prepared to die very quickly unless it's a particularly low-powered or softhearted mage (in which case why are you Hunting them?)"

>"Some of the Hunter 1e powers flat-out wouldn't work on rules-as-Mage Awakened"

>"Just use Witches."

lolhunters

>>51749917

I was just joking, me and him are friends and we rib on each other sometimes. It's going to be a fucking crossover game too, so it's not like I can say much about wacky stuff.

>>51749416
Thats like saying a werewolf will never be able to kill a fledgling vampire because some one from his clan will be able to save him.

Mage fags are under the assumption that literally every mage has every ability that the splat can learn at all times regardless of the difficulty on nonsensability it entails and despite lore proving them wrong.

>>51749956
He's referring to abilities that target magic, but doesn't work with the rules of magic presented in Hunter.

Basically the two games interact poorly.

Hunters have plenty of tools that DO work on mages as written, often in ways that were in no way intended because the games were written by different people with a huge gap in between which allows Hunters to steamroll basically anything they get the drop on if there's just one and it isn't too big a critter. (Guaranteed and unresistable damage is something that happens more than once in Hunter, which works just great when you're fighting NPCs, less so if you're fighting a player where it's just bullshit nofun)

Anyway, no one was saying there was a power equivalence.

>>51750016
>Mage fags are under the assumption that literally every mage has every ability the splat can learn
Not really. No, not really.

>That's like saying a werewolf will never be able to kill a fledgling vampire because some one from his clan will be able to save him
Yeah, vampires are pretty weak.

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So the Eleventh Question legacy members get pretty much stereotyped as Sherlock-lite, but surely they dont all turn into obsessive compulsive opium addicts and theres room for other ripoffs right? I mean shit there must be a Gene Hunt out there.

>“Now. Yesterday’s vaporizing. The vampires are all so scared we’re more likely to get Helen Keller to talk. The Furry in a coma’s about as lively as Liberace’s dick when he’s looking at a naked woman… all in all this investigation’s going at the speed of a spastic in a magnet factory.”

>>51750068
Aren't 2E Vampires generally able to beat 2E Werewolves 1v1, but Werewolves usually have the pack/numbers to avoid a straight forward 1v1 situation?

>>51750316

2E Werewolves beat the living dead out of 2E Vampires

>>51750307
>They're Sherlock-plus

And just because they have all of Sherlock's deductive abilities and more, doesn't mean they have to act like him.

Why are WoDfgs more concerned about fucking vs matches rather than telling a story. Seems so juvenile.

>>51749140
Since you can't even count on that with a far number of the arcana Mage Supremacy still stands.

>>51750476
How is telling a story in a proprietary setting anything more than fanfics with dice?

>>51747767
degenerate gweilos who don't have our supreme wisdom

>>51750549

You know there is actually other mages that would disagree with you ya know. You sound like a mastigos mage.

>>51749780
Maimonides, a jewish archmage, could canonically remove the curse of Caine, but include immortality

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>>51750476

Wait, there's another way to play the game?

>>51750704
>A Jew interfering with the work of G-d

Pretty sure thats not kosher.

>>51750704
>archmage

Did you even need to type anything other than that?

>>51750742
Nope, it's the holiest thing you could do
>One day Rabbi Joshua and Rabbi Eliezer were having a halachic argument over the purity of a specialized oven. Rabbi Eliezer brought them all the evidence he possibly could to legitimize his argument but Rabbi Joshua Rejected him. Upon being rejected, Rabbi Eliezer said to Rabbi Joshua, "if the halacha is with me, then let the carob tree prove it!" to which the carob tree uprooted itself and moved 100 cubits. Some say 400 cubits. Rabbi Joshua responded by saying that one cannot prove anything from a carob tree.
>Rabbi Eliezer then said to him, "then if the halacha is with me, let the stream prove it!" to which the water responded by flowing in the opposite direction. Rabbi Joshua responded by saying that one cannot prove anything with a stream.
>Rabbi Eliezer then said," then if the halacha is with me, let these walls prove it!" to which the walls of the room began to cave in. Rabi Joshua then rebuked the walls by saying that the walls had no authority in a a halachic debate. The walls then stood at angles in respect to both of the rabbis.
>Finally, Rabbi Eliezer said," if the halacha is with me, then may it be proven by heaven!" In response to this, a voice came down from heaven and said to Rabbi Joshua, "why do you argue with Rabbie Eliezer? The Halacha is in accordance with him in every way".
>Rabbi Joshua said to the heavenly voice," The Torah is not in heaven so we take no notice of heavenly voices since you have already written in the Torah to follow the majority."
>The heavenly voice then exclaimed with delight, " my sons have defeated me, my sons have defeated me!". After this, Rabbi Eliezer was excommunicated from the group.

>>51748525
Mages aren't real

>>51750858
Cultor I appreciate your enthusiasm but the Veil won't be maintained through such crude denials

>>51750800
>God calls you out for being a cunt
>slap him down with your giant circumcised dick

Rabbi Joshua is a badass.

>>51750316
>Aren't 2E Vampires generally able to beat 2E Werewolves 1v1
lol no

>>51750898
>vampires being able to stand up against other supernaturals
kek

>>51750898

Mage > Werewolf > Vampire >>>>> Hunter

>>51750914
more like
Mage > Demon > Werewolf > Vampire >> Hunter

>>51750919

I'm not going to both with a whole list. I was just comparing the big three.

>>51750942
>big three
>including Hunter
???

>>51750948

Purely a gesture of spite

because who likes Hunters?

>>51750971
Beasts creepily obsess over the Lucifuge, does that count?

>>51751000
Beasts creepily obsess over everything, that is their schtick

>>51750742
>Removing Curse of Caine
>A Jew interfering with the work of G-d
>Pretty sure that's not kosher.

Vampirism is not kosher.

In fact, imbibing blood is about as non-kosher as you can get.

A religious Jewish vampire would be well and truly screwed.

Obligatory thread request list:

-Tales of the Dark Eras
-Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes
-Beast Ready Made Characters
-Cursed Necropolis: Rio

>>51751105
>A religious Jewish vampire would be well and truly screwed.
On the other hand kosher slaughterhouses are like a goldmine of cheap animal blood in bulk. I was quite shocked noone took hold of it in my game, despite Jewish ghetto being the Tremere domen.

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>>51751114
>tfw you can never to back in time and crowdfund Mummy

It haunts me and always will.

>>51751315
I hope they do the Book with the Judges nonetheless someday

>>51751322

In my wildest dreams, Book of Going Westward is a grand finale to Mummy 1e and then I get hired to write for Mummy 2e.

>>51751315
>It haunts me and always will.

Congratulations, you have truly experienced the personal horror of the CofD.

so what does it mean to Haunt a place with a spell? Death 4

*cricket noises*

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>>51751678
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L28CnhmeAD4

*a tumbleweed blows by*

http://store.steampowered.com/app/565410/

Apparently this happened. Is it any good...?

>>51751919

Go suck a knot and piss off

>>51751928
wait is it a CYOA? Anyways just from the example writing it looks edgy as fuck
>>51751935
wow rude

>>51747121
>I simply don't understand the need for mages to bully werewolves
>It's little more than animal cruelty, and unbecoming of superior beings

Oh, I do love this comment. I wish the werefags would learn their place.

>>51751928
>Mage opens with volunteering to help Syrian refugees, then telling off a nerd at a bookstore that asked for Asimov

Brace for /pol/ shitposting

>>51751997
>learn their place
Hmm? I'm fully aware that Werewolves are a mid tier splat in terms of power level. I just don't care

>>51751928
>an interactive narrative

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand dropped. The only VN's I play involve raping 2d asian girls of questionable age.

>>51752027
>I just don't care

wtf? why not? its pretty fucking important.

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>>51751928
>Singleplayer session simulator
>VtM
Thanks for this link, anon. It means a lot to me, a guy who can only approach WoD trought these threads and reading info online. Have no friends willing to play PnP and the scene in my country is too dead or underground for me to know about it.
Also I'll finally be able to learn something about Mage.

>>51752134
I don't play these games to wank over power levels. I do it to pretend that i'm a vampire / demon / werewolf

So if I would want to lift the whole Cofd and drop it into a different set of rules what tabletop rpg would be my best pick?

>>51752175
FATAL

>>51752185
I was thinking Racial Holy War at first or this game by Varg Vikernes

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>>51747767
Are Kuei-jin evil or just xenophobic? I only got to know them because of VtM:B.

>>51752313
They are horribly racist toward western vampires

>>51752217
MYFAROG is a very focused fantasy game, and RHW doesn't actually work.

>>51744744

It means the writers are leftist.

>>51752348
Well it does have a table for swimming with different modifiers for light and gentle breeze.

Exarchs know I need this is my games

What changes if you make it so Sleepers roll for Dissonance when they first witness magic instead of at the end of the scene?

>>51752407
Mages can no longer fight sleepers with magic

So what's the consensus on oWoD vs nWoD(1e, not Chronicles)? I'm itching to run a WoD-game with my friends, but I cant decide between old and new. Old seems to have more interesting fluff, but I really like that crossovers are easier in nWoD... what do /tg/?

>>51752437
I think the general consensus is use nwod rules and get the conversion guide is you like owod fluff

>>51752443

But that seems like a hassle

what of 1 of 2 conjoined twins awaken?

>>51752331
At least their Elders are. Bamboo Princes get along quite well with kindred

>>51752149

You, i like you.

>>51752147
Finding group on social networks and playing online using some dice-rolling site (there's planty of those) is still an option. Sure, you'd gonna run into magical realm or just bad players quite often, but live roleplaying isn't immune from it either. WoD is actually benefits a bit from it, as players can have isolated chats/voicecoms with GM for betraying each other rather than turning entire session into a "pass a note" game

>>51752407
- Sleepers all functionally gain huge magic resistance
- Dissonance becomes a major exploitable force, for instance you can set traps for sleepers that are just dumpsters levitated, gravity negated, or held up by a magically summoned floor, which immediately dissipates as soon as the sleeper sees it, dropping several tons of metal and crap onto them.

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>>51752149
Underrated

Re the 'mage-hunter' Lodge mentioned somewhere above - the anon isn't exactly right, but they're not completely wrong either.

I'm assuming this is a reference to the Lodge of the Cage I referenced in The Pack. Obviously, the Cage aren’t fully written up at this time, but I can provide some commentary on how I envisage them working, if people want.

>>51752707

That would be absolutely splendid. Please do.

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If they were ever to make a Vampire the Requiem video game, what would it even be about?

>>51752819
Love and the power of friendship, of course!

>>51746589
>Most werewolves
Most werewolves are 5 cunning renown Irraka or Harmony <= 3? Interesting.

>>51747121
>bit of flattery and some initiate-level parlor tricks, werewolves could be made into excellent minions and servants
>excellent minions and servants
For that you would need high Mind arcanum, weres don't make good servants. You have to train them to not piss inside, they take away one shoe and eat the other one, really not worth the bother. Better change them into lawnchairs.

>>51752707
Yes, please. We are always suckers for more content.

>>51752875
>weres don't make good servants

But, they're so ADORABLE

>>51752819
Probably something like Shadowrun: Dragonfall

>>51752024
why? You can aid a poor, confused girl to swallow the redpill

>>51752932

AIs, dragons and eldritch horrors from beyond?

>>51751928
>Vampire: The Masquerade: We Eat Blood And All Our Friends Are Dead is a chilling story written and illustrated by award- winning authors Zak Smith and Sarah Horrocks.
>award winning
It seems that pretty much everyone is "award-winning author" nowadays.
>Zak Smith
porn actor
>Sarah Horrocks
noname comic artist
Yeah, I bet this is gonna be good.

>>51752939
This wouldn't be too far off but what I meant is that you play a guy with some spare time trying to carve out a place of his in a city that is also hounded by overarching plot from time to time

>>51752819

A rag-tag gang of minorities overthrowing the patriarchy.

>>51752957
>http://store.steampowered.com/app/565410/

Set in Sweden, by Swedes. As a Swede, I warn you: The SJW-levels and leftist magical thinking is going to be off the charts.

>>51752962
>A rag-tag gang of minorities overthrowing the patriarchy.
You meant trying to overthrow the partiarcht but ultimately falling on each other's throats.

>>51752809
I'm just listening to an incredibly boring webinar at the moment; once it either finishes or I can't cope with the whargarbl any longer, I'll write something up.

>>51752973
yeah, it's pretty bad, but in the Mage thing, you can join the Union to contain the immigrant threat by swallowing the red pill and coming to realize and unhindered immigration just hurts the country in the long run

>>51744969
Poor baby. Have a colouring book.

>>51744997
Well if they're assholes with personal shortcomings, they could get possessed by a Bane. Unlike normal Fomori, they stay in control of their body and the poor Bane becomes yet another victim. Check out Freak Legion for details.

>>51744998
>Minorities are all magical and inherently virtuous, and white people are villains.

However did people draw that conclusion? Oh, probably because Obama went 8 years without scandal and ushered in hope and prosperity, while Whitey (Annoying Orange?) managed to get people whispering about "treason" and "Putin piss sex tapes" in less than 3 weeks?

So I had an idea after surfing the web, an alternate setting for werewolf apocalypse. I thought canon was alternately too bleak and not bleak enough. It goes like this:

Weaver never went mad, Triat are idiot savants
Weaver drove human progress, dumps toxic waste and forgets about it
Wyrm decides polluted areas are unreclaimable and creates a new Gaia that thrives on toxic waste
BSDs converted to new Gaia to survive, Chernobyl is a new Gaian paradise
The three sides cannot coexist and must commit genocide or die, but none are evil or do evil things for evil's sake

Thoughts?

>>51745134
....and the very next night, the Mystagouges sucked ballgags as thick, knotted were-cocks pounded against their throbbing prostates. Shuddering in shame and revulsion, they couldn't help but orgasm as a flood of Crinos semen blasted into their torn rectums like Old Faithful....

>>51745138
>>51745154

I keep seeing these little "if they had time to prepare" and "virtually any" quantifiers. So really, you're admitting, yes it can happen.

AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
BITCHES OF LONDON
AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>51745187
That same review quotes the amount of smack necessary for a Crinos form Garou to OD.

2 litres.

2. Fucking. Litres.

Do they even make syringes that big? How big was the fucking spoon?

>>51753391
Too big

>>51746340
The only hammering I hear is the sound of furry hips slamming into mage asscheeks.
>>51745187
That same review quotes the amount of smack necessary for a Crinos form Garou to OD.

2 litres.

2. Fucking. Litres.

Do they even make syringes that big? How big was the fucking spoon?
>>51745344
White people were created by an alchemist named Yakub, and trained in lies and treachery. Never forget that white genes are inherently inferior - after all, white skin is recessive, black skin is a dominant trait. Biology simply follows the higher law of the universe.

>>51746478
It's not about taking the Mage down, Anon.

It's so someone can hold the handycam, another can hold the wrists, another can spread those ankles nice and wide, and another can man the 4 litre pump pack of industrial lubricant.

>you'll never be alone
>if the dog gives you a bone

>>51746489
Wait, what?

>>51746676
>oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit....

>>51746978
>>51746997
>I have to believe in fantasy scenarios to justify my insecurities and tiny penis

>>51753368
>>51753382
>>51753446
>>51753474

You got some issues you need to solve, buddy.

>>51747509
All Archmages are dead, turned to spirit or obliterated when the Avatar Storm cut off the Deep Umbra. Remaining Mages would get raped by paradox, then by Black Spiral Dancers. Maybe if they're cute they'll be offered a chance to enter the Caul and serve their true master.

>>51748299
Why can't you all just shut up and play the only decent game?

I mean Beast just fucking *rocks*, man.

>>51753540
>All Archmages are dead, turned to spirit or obliterated when the Avatar Storm cut off the Deep Umbra

>What is Threat Null

>>51752957
Zak at least has done some interesting work for OSR games and can be counted on to have strange or interesting ideas. The premise sounds decent as wel.
>>51752973
I'm so sorry you have to endure such horrors. Is leaving an option?

>>51749648
>You seem to be laboring under the delusion that all Mages are asinine baboons.

All the Magefags act that way, so their characters would too. QED

>>51753540
The Avatar Storm didn't actually hit the Deep Umbra. If there are other Archmages, Oracles and Exemplars, they would still be surviving off in the far reaches of space, forever locked away from Earth.

>>51753619
>What is Threat Null

The Technocrats that got locked off turned into the Borg and are currently trying to breach our puny green planet. Annoying plot-device but the super-wizards could still potentially return if this is an example to go by.

>>51752819
Basically it would be Melrose Place, if that red haired chick who went on to do Desperate Housewives had slashed her genitals with a knife in order to blow up the building.

>>51753205

Short and long run. Our crime has increased A LOT, our welfare spending as well, new diseased are cropping up that we'd eradicated here along time ago (TBC) etc etc. The supposed long term benefits are increased workforce, but they aren't educated, they can't do any jobs more difficult than cleaning and selling kebab. I'm utterly perplexed at the reasoning and censorship, our government must be 100% infiltrated by Belials brood or something.

>>51753347
>Obama went 8 years without scandal
>Fast and Furious
>Benghazi
>using the IRS to target conservative organizations
>NSA mass surveillance
>lying to the American people about the Iranian ransom
>the email scandal (yes this is mainly Hillary's but Obama knew about it if evidence is to believed)
>EPA Colorado River
>GSA scandal
>secret service scandal

Yeah no scandals whatsoever.

And every single one of the 'scandals' that Trump has had thrown at him so far have had no proof whatsoever in them or have been proven fake. Like the pissing sex tapes.

>>51752973
You can always immigrate to America and join your alt-right fuckbuddies. Now the Annoying Orange has decided to kick all the "illegals" out of the country, they're going to need literally thousands upon thousands of people to do backbreaking work cleaning toilets, harvesting crops and milking cows for cents on the dollar, living in substandard housing and living on cans of beans while millions of dollars worth of food rots on the vine and not one company returns to re-open factories.

It will be the right-wing paradise you've always dreamed of, Anon. A sea of white faces staring back at you, all starving and desperate, with a jackboot on their throats.

If the splats are imbalanced, why can't we use a universal system to represent powers? It seems silly to have everything work off different mechanics.

>>51753681
And the Technocracy tries to fix it again
#WhoAreTheRealHeroes#VictoryToTheUnion#PurgeTheRealityDeviant

>>51753619
It doesn't work that way. If anyone stays away from Earth too long, they start changing. Look it up.

>>51753714
The Technocracy have always been the good guys.

>>51753695

Or, you know, you could have a society that is not built on paying cents on the dollar for back-breaking labor.

>>51753686
>And every single one of the 'scandals' that Trump has had thrown at him so far have had no proof whatsoever in them or have been proven fake.

You need to turn on your TV.

http://www.vox.com/world/2017/2/15/14620560/trump-flynn-russia-campaign

It's been less than 3 weeks, and already one senior staffer has had to fall on their sword for breaching the Logan act and deliberately misleading the VP.

Also, the piss tape? Give it time. Also, look up what "compromat" means. Spoiler: you don't go public unless blackmail *fails*, guy.

>>51753723
Gee, I wonder how Horizon, the Stronghold of Hope survived out there for hundreds of years.

Gee, I wonder how Threat Null is even a thing.

You're right, the change is a primary factory of the Deep Umbra, yet it's also canon that Mages have dealt with it for centuries upon centuries.

>>51753743
America's economy can't take it. Look up what happened in Georgia when HB-87 passed, and see the future.

We are doomed to repeat because we never learn, Anon. We never, ever learn.

>>51753773
>Gee, I wonder how Horizon, the Stronghold of Hope survived out there for hundreds of years.

You mean before it got literally shredded?

>Gee, I wonder how Threat Null is even a thing.

You mean they weren't around forever? Because if they weren't, "dealing with it for centuries" is a meaningless statement.

>>51753723

You realize that Mages have molded planets out in the Deep Umbra, right?

>>51753774

I'm just saying, taking an ethnically homogenous nation of ~9 million that works well, as Sweden, and then importing a million arabs/africans from non-working nations, that are completely unskilled and alien in thinking and behaviour, is the shittiest idea of the century. Then actively having a government cpolicy ensoring the consequences and saying 'all is well, say otherwise and you are a racist traitor' is downright evil.

>>51753792
>You mean before it got literally shredded

Horizon didn't get shredded, you're referring to Doissetep on Mars. No one knows what happened to Horizon, just like nobody knew about Threat Null until they started causing havoc among the universe.

>>51753792
How long has it been since the Avatar Storm compared to the many centuries of wizard ruled planets drifting off in space?

Yeah, it's a very good statement to make.

>>51753751
Except the transcripts of the calls show absolutely no wrongdoing on Flynns part. This isnt to say he could have proken the Logan Act but so far nothing has been shown that he did. Of course he could still go to jail for not giving the FBI complete information but thats not treason.

>Also, the piss tape? Give it time. Also, look up what "compromat" means. Spoiler: you don't go public unless blackmail *fails*, guy.

Only people that read Buzzfeed think the piss allegations have any truth in them. Everyone from Forbes to the WSJ called it out. Its not true.

But by all means keep believing this fantasy world where Putin has tapes of Trump getting pissed on. It just makes you look even more ridiculous to everyone else.

>>51753814
The history of humanity is a history of migration. You're acting precious because people different to you moved in next door? Cry me a goddamn river, you bitch princess. New ways of thinking means innovation, risk takers willing to try new ventures in order to build a better life for their children. Shut that out and you'll stagnate. But sure, pretend granting asylum to people fleeing certain death is "Evil", you stupid Swedish shithead.

>>51753905
new ways of thinking do not necessarily mean innovation. The Mongols did not bring with them innovation

>>51753850
yes, I'm sure MI6 agents risk capture, torture and death for shits and giggles. I'm also certain that America's own intelligence agencies expressing concerns about their own Commander In Chief is all an elaborate April Fools Day prank. After all, KGB agents have NEVER used compromising footage from that hotel to end the career of anyone before have they? Oh, except that one guy, who stayed in the exact same hotel, who was head of the Dept of Justice over there and pissed on Yeltsin's boots while Putin was still head of the KGB.... but Russians are just so ultra polite that they would never, ever stoop to blackmailing a politician. No sirree.

How fucking gullible are you? Holy shit, just buy the I WANT TO BELIEVE poster already. You're a fucking embarrassment, where are all the smart people in your country? Did they already leave for Canada?

>>51753944
Lots of rape though.

>>51753944
Yes, because starving Syrian refugees totally rode into Sweden on short stocky horses and stabbed people to death with scimitars.

>what is a false equivalency, Daddy?

I had no idea Swedes were so fucking retarded. I guess there's only one way to keep those vaunted blue on blue eyes and blonde hairs - inbreeding like prize goats.

>>51753723
It's almost like they didn't make a specific Sphere to deal with this exact situation.

O wait.

>>51753905

Certain death? Wow, you are either LARPing or completely buy in to the propaganda. You do know that we often have 'refugees' taking vacations to the country from which they 'fled from certain death', right? And look at a map, look how many countries they had to travel through to get here.

>>51753969

Here is a prime example of a leftist being triggered when reality does not conform to his warped marijuana-induced world-view.

>>51753952
This really has to be bait.

First off. FORMER M16 agent. Second, they can express as many concerns as they fucking want, this brave and selfless former M16 Agent who lost many bothans to bring us this information of Trump going to Russia to get pissed on can cry how real his claims are from the rooftops, but they're all still UNSUBSTANTIATED.

>inb4 the IC can't reveal their information because its top secret guiz

These are the people that shitpost on twitter daily about their work and how the deep state is going to kill Trump. That send random people pics of their dicks. I'm not going to listen to a thing they publish until they provide proof.

Which should I play, Mage the Awakening or WtF, choose for me /tg/.

>>51753969
Not him, but you kind of missed the point.

He's just saying that having a bunch of foreign people come into your country doesn't guarantee that things will be better for it.

And I'm pretty sure scimitars are slashing weapons.

>>51754063
He probably doesnt even know the difference between a foil and a sabre. Uncultured heathen.

Right then, webinar turned out to be a waste of time. So, the Lodge of the Cage.

Forewarning before any howls of outrage: I firmly believe in writing what works best for the specific gameline one is working on, not trying to salve the theoretical ego of another gameline. This initial design for the Cage is predicated on Werewolf.

And, of course, a disclaimer: This is my thinking behind the Lodge of the Cage that I included in The Pack; they officially exist, and officially do what they do as detailed there, but what I am writing here is obviously not official and merely my thoughts.

The Lodge of the Cage, as per The Pack, capture sorcerers, imprison them in an extradimensional fortress, and mutilate their souls; they also sometimes deploy these spiritually-lobotomised magicians as living weapons. Ok, well, that tells us a bit - and for this specific example, I was using it to depict elements of how Lodges interact with other supernatural beings - but we obviously need more than that to make it a workable in-game Lodge that characters can deal with.

We start with overarching purpose and hunting focus. The Cage-Wardens do indeed hunt magicians, but not as an end to itself - they hunt magicians because they *use* magicians. They drain magic into their Place-That-Is-Not stronghold, either from active magical effects they encounter or by capturing magicians and using them as batteries. What's this power all used for? I'm not completely sure yet. Possibly they're trying to keep a hole in reality plugged, or their horrific totem bound, or maintaining some sort of focus that stops magicians from causing reality to just fall apart. Possibly they are trying to maintain a massive, metaphysical boundary ward that hems in the edges of existence itself, impeding hubristic sorcerers from crossing over into What Man Is Not Meant To What Of.
(1/?)

>>51754056
Play Mage but be a Thyrsus who goes all in on their Ruling Arcana.

That way you can still be a shapeshifting spirit cop.

>>51754082
However, they are quite definitely jailors, torturers and heretics. These are not nice or sane people even by werewolf standards. If one were to use them in a Mage game I'd probably suggest outright making them another branch of the Exarch’s influence in the world and make the whole ‘of the Cage’ bit refer to the Lie, but that’s an aside. In Werewolf, they exist for Werewolf reasons.

So, other mage-hunting Lodges might exist (and the Tindalosi likely eat quite a few time-travelling witches who stumble into the wrong temporal neighbourhood) but the Cage have a specific purpose to their hunt, which is capturing and soul-mutilating magicians, and their powers need to reflect this. Here we hit the interesting bit of design for a Lodge, wherein I don’t want to make this specifically target Awakened – a given Werewolf game may not feature the Awakened in the setting at all (or may alter them to be very different), and might use entirely varied rules for magicians and the like entirely, like Hunter’s rules for witches. Much like the Eaters of the Dead (and my draft rules for the Lodge of Death) have a broader effect than being ‘good vs this specific type of undead’, the Cage need effects that work more broadly than ‘Awakened’. Obviously, they’re still not going to be much use to a GM who has absolutely no non-werewolf, non-spirit supernatural effects in their game, but that’s fine – can’t make the Lodge useful for everyones games, all the time.

(2/?)

>>51754092
Here’s my current thoughts on how the Lodge’s powers work: On the Sacred Hunt, they can render magical spells affecting them into dramatic failures as they hoover the power up and channel it to their stronghold. Actually biting a magician who is the nominated prey allows the Cage-Warden to tear the victim’s soul out and store it about them in some idigam-reminiscent form, like the little floating soul-lanterns or screaming light orbs or whatever. Any time the soulless magician then casts anything, it empowers the Cage-Warden further. Ideally the Uratha then captures and transports the prey back to the stronghold to be added to the Matrix-esque garden of victims powering the Lodge’s magical reactor/binding circle/ever-hungry-totem/hole in reality/etc.

So the Sacred Hunt gives the needed juice to bring down the prey. I’d probably look at just how effective this turned out to be in playtesting and then tweak from there – if it was too good, add some drawbacks, since you don’t want the hunt for their favoured prey to be too easy; if too weak, amp it up further. This isn’t the whole, just yet. They can bring the prey down – now to exploit it. For that, I’d add one or two new rites that are the actual spiritual-lobotomisation element of the Lodge’s shenanigans. The rite/s would allow for soul mutilation (probably accompanied by horrific physical mutilation as well) that causes the victim’s power to pour into the Cage’s receptacle, but specifically allowing for ‘unlocking’ specific categories of ability temporarily to either let the Lodge do evil shit or use the mages as weapons. This unlocking would be highly limited and likely to burn the magician’s soul out fast, so it’d only be done on a limited basis to preserve the current prison stock levels.

(3/?)

>>51753982
>Certain death? Wow, you are either LARPing or completely buy in to the propaganda.

Or you could look at Google Maps yourself and check out what's left of Aleppo instead of sucking Breitbart dick... but then you wouldn't get your biases confirmed, would you?

>You do know that we often have 'refugees' taking vacations to the country from which they 'fled from certain death', right?

MY GOD!!! WHY WOULD ANYONE GO BACK TO CHECK ON LOVED ONES AND RELATIVES TOO SICK OR INJURED OR OLD TO LEAVE??? Glad to know you're such a fucking psychopath you'd leave your country behind and never spare a thought for anyone in your family on dialysis or crippled or elderly...

>And look at a map, look how many countries they had to travel through to get here.

How absolutely terrible of them to want to travel to a country already containing people they knew!!!! THE BASTARDS!!! They've only left behind everything they own, their homes, their jobs, their lives, several dead relatives, everything they've ever known.... that leaves them with their language, their religion and their lives, and you get fucking TUMBLR TRIGGERED!@!@! over them keeping the first two. How absolutely generous of you. I hope when Skåne, Blekinge, Öland, Gotland, Ystad, Götaland and Svealand get swallowed by the rising oceans, Denmark fucking gives you the finger and repeats your own bullshit back at you.

>nah man, you're like the fucking Mongols, swedish pieces of shit, stay over there and learn to swim motherfuckers

>>51754073
I remember when I didn't know a smallsword from a rapier. Such a long time ago.