/anrg/ - Android Netrunner General: Spoiler Ken Edition Now with

Almost forgot, old thread: >>51639097

I'm a fan of Stimhack in Professor. Just what could push a man who loves learning and research so far as to drive him to purposely give himself incurable brain damage? Was it to prevent the corp from merging with his university? Is he trying to keep his kids from getting carted off by the cleaners? It chills my spine.

Still willing to pay 50 bucks for a TD playtesting file and my mail is still [email protected] send me proof and paypal adress.

Also feel free to ask me anything.

So which of the 2 corps will players be picking first for their 42 corp campaign?

>>51718211
Obviously Skorpio. Make Weyland Great Again. 40 cards, 15 infl, good ability that counters the ability on the Crim ID. Probably that.

Or just the HB one because it's HB and you can play good cards, but depends on what deckbuilding rules your friends want to abide by.

>>51718235

HB would be good in the campaign because of biotics and all the 3/2 agendas. Probably not as fun as Skorpios unless it has ways to drain clicks from the runner.

Both sides are really going to miss JHow though.

>>51717855

Would be funny if it was actually him responsible for that Bioroid going all killbot in 42. I think the Shaper introduced there made some reference to him or somesuch.

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>>51717755
Not using pic related

Theme combos - Harmony Medtech using San San, because they were the first major corp in Biotech Valley that Jinteki absorbed when they moved there. And making the last Medical Breakthrough a 1/2 agenda is sweet.

Also Argus with Prisec, DRT, and probably soon Mr Stone, is always nice

>>51719992
Possibly, she's a researcher and her insert mentions her Professor getting whacked by the law - if so we've got the Prof's surname:

>Ayla "Bios" Rahim
After her midday prayer, Ayla Rahim did not feel calmer than before. Her emotional state was, if she was being honest to herself, still chaotic. Like since weeks ago, since the arrest of Professor Atoc. She made her prayer mat furl itself, put it into her purse and at the same time blocked out the Professor and his problems with the law, his slashed funding and her unstable academical future. She breathed in deeply. "You're doing it right, and all will be well, Inshallah."

She climbed down the water tower. Strictly speaking, she did not have to be up there to make her prayers, but she felt closer to God if she was surrounded by a bit of empty space. Somehow she was glad about being forced to relocate her laboratory. The campus for agricultual genome research was one of the few places in the city that still had empty land, and in this phase of her project, her needs were rather modest. And she had always loved plants.

"Not that they're actually plants", she said, even though there was nobody to listen. She opened the door to the unneeded hut that had become her lab. Her "creations" (she presumed that was the most fitting term) sat on workbenches and dusty shelves and glowed while growing. "Quite exactly like plants, as it seems. After all, I talk to them as well."

cont.

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>>51721174
They looked at least a bit like plants that were growing in their pots, growing new branches and leaves over time while they were evolving and drawing data from the network instead of sunlight. But they were fantastically complex constructs based on quantum computers, their intelligence growing through endless iterations and forming new processes and subroutines. Sometimes she had to remove a damaging offshoot. Sometimes she even had to break open the pot of network protocols and blockades that prevented her "plants" from learning.

Each of her constructs came from a different seed, a question or task, and grew according to a different pattern. This one analysed the NASX and grew sprawling, with thick, beautiful leaves. Another one calculated interplanetary travels and had long, swaying branches for each of the worlds. But the last one was her favourite. She had instructed it simply to learn how to think. She bowed down to it, cleaned the sensor field and invited it to bloom and show its innermost.

It bloomed and bloomed and filled the room with a cloud of data she had never seen before.

An endless grid of vines and leaves, growing to an impossible thicket. All from a single branch. "Well" she said. "This is interesting." Ayla opened a drawer and grabbed her console. Either her experiment failed or she had just discovered something very crucial. It was time to find out which of those had happened.

>>51721174
>>51721185

Strange how SMCs won't be appearing in her campaign decklists despite their virtually explicit appearances here.

Come to think of it, one has to wonder what *fun* things Shapers are going to have in what is essentially their second big box.

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>>51721274
>one has to wonder what *fun* things
Well quite likely Cygnet/Egret, which is Tinkering that hosts like Parasite:

>Egret
>2 Credits 1 MU
>Install Egret only on a rezzed piece of ice.
>Host ice gains Sentry, Code Gate and Barrier.

And yeah, shaper usually gets fun toys like that.
The most troll think I can think of right now is to drop it on a lone Mother Goddess, but I'm sure it'll be useful - if nothing else it powers up "until the end of the run" breakers

Seeing as SMC is most closely linked to the Prof (and every shaper ever uses it) I think it's okay that she won't have it for the campaign - as a former HB researcher, with that kind of record, it's not surprising he's been called in for questioning

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Huh, this is a fun* choice for the runner against Skorpios - choose between the corp definitely removing a program, or possibly removing one of two cards.

And it's above Mimic strength, which is nice

>>51721593

While str 4 is nice, i daresay if the runner is using mimic, he would most certainly be using sucker tokens if able. So the corp better have some way of making said tokens hard to come by.

>>51721593
Speaking of Mimic, will you guys be enforcing the MWL for your TD campaigns? Sure you don't need to since it's not competitive, but Parasucker and Yog still ain't fun.

>>51722183

It would probably be a good idea to have the full card list first, since if there cheap strong ice in abundance, parasite and yog probably won't be as strong anyway.

And you only got a single SSCG in a single core, so...

>>51722183
Hard to say - if crim get a console then it might be necessary, for example.

>>51713822
>>51713949
>non-bioroid cards that trigger Seidr

There's Weir in upcoming cards now that I think of it.

>Favourite Janky/Theme Combos?

Don't know about favorite, but first that comes to mind is Reality Threedee rezzed during a run on a Chilo Server with a Broadcast Square on the table. Bonus point if the runner is MaxX and the corp TWIY.

>Thoughts on using theme combos to draw new players and help new deckbuilders?

Personally very much in favor. In reality depends on the player profile. Some people don't really care about theme, it's just background flavor to their number crunching. To others, it *makes* the game. We have people that make silly theme "roleplay" decks and while those are rarely going to hit big in the competitive meta, they certainly have a huge positive impact in cool/fun factor for the local community.

(Hence why Geist is never not going to have a fake german accent, why we all know Whizzard's signature card is Muresh bodysuit, why Kit is a Reina fangirl, or why we have a custom made Anarch Kakemono with the three rules of running hanging by the club door)

>>51721593

It's funny how, with Hortium, Collossus, Bloodletter, Skorpios... the Weyland side of TD offers so many cool options against the one runner faction that isn't in the box.

Not that their toys aren't going to get abused.

>>51722409

Why would that be the case? It would be a bit hard to see either runner to not have their own console seeing how there is only one Desp/Toolbox in a single core to begin with.

>>51722374
>>51722409
Yeah, guess you guys are right. Plus Skorpios can probably remove the problem cards (Parasite especially) from game alongside Hunter-Seeker, and HB has always been solid for glacier play. No idea if Seidr is worth choosing over EtF though.

Come to think of it, would Seidr fire if Enigma lose a click sub fires with no clicks left?

>>51722568

Maybe I misunderstood, but I don't think you'll get to chose EtF in the legacy set up.

>>51722568

Nope, you can only lose a click if able, since you aren't able, you don't lose it. That's one way to deal with the otherwise oppressive Bellamy Heinlein Combo: run last click.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1724963/damon-stone-steps-down-lead-designer/page/2

Mr Stone posted in the thread, several interesting things to read, but I'll highlight what my obsessed, feverish mind picked first:

>Alternatively, after you've learned the game with the Core buy Terminal Directive (should be out in a month or so)

What is this campaign stuff I keep hearing about?

>>51722768

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/tag/android-netrunner-the-card-game/?addl_tag=android-netrunner-terminal-directive

Upcoming big box trying to adapt the legacy format to ANR. Basically a mini-campaign scenario for Netrunner made to be played with one Core and one Terminal Directive box.

>>51721427

Don't know if egret is going to be that useful, but it would be a nice one-off surprise in the early game.

Also, it's rather surprising ze Prof hasn't had his head exploded yet considering what secrets he has in said head.

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>>51722709
Interdasting.
And interesting seeing what he's saying about the new guy - who's still never actually been called "lead" designer

Thinking the other day about what you'd need when making an Android RPG, one of the things would likely be weapons - Skorpios being Weyland's big weapons manufacturer reminded me of this.

There's 4 big categories of weapon in the Android Universe: Slugthrowers, Energy Weapons, Mass Drivers and Less-Lethal Weaponry, as well as ordnance and cyberware (though the latter tend to be support systems over direct combat gear)

Other than Skorpios (and their literal parent company Argus - Skorpios was spun off and given as a wedding gift to Argus CEO Magnus Swan's daughter and her partner), can you guess (or recall) which corp ID is the other big player in armaments?

>>51723302
He deleted and scrambled all his work, maybe HB want to take him down to the black-level basement?

Also, if he is Alya's prof, then he's also mentioned in Monster Slayer's extra bits - one Professor Atoc Amador is mentioned as one of the leaders of the CEL, a group calling for the handover of New Angeles (which is leased kinda like Hong Kong's New Territories were, but Ecuador's no China) to happen earlier.
And it's been said before that the Prof is Ecuadorian, so this seems pretty plausible to me

>>51723372
>Other than Skorpios can you guess (or recall) which corp ID is the other big player in armaments?

Don't have WoA on hands right now, but doesn't GlobalSec produce hardware too on top of the mercenary core that is their turf?

>>51723372

IIRC, the other main rival in the arms industry is actually NEXT, known for their lazers and railguns (among other thing involving fine German engineering). Nothing actually mentioned about the S-Labs though, although they could be involved in the Killbot development on Mars for all we know.

>>51723462
Possibly a little, as well as having the second biggest database of personal information outside of NBN, but that's not the main one - the one I'm thinking of are a playable corp ID

>>51723505

That's th eon. Was pretty sure HB has something, but couldn't remember which branch.

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>>51723505
Yup, for workable laser guns, as with functional Androids, Haas got there first.

Shame we don't get to see it, though it's mentioned they do network defences in peacetime instead of things like laser sats

Also "Networked Emergent and eXperimental Technology" Design is kind of a dumb acronym that I had to look up

>>51723462

Don't think it was mentioned where they actually get all their stuff from, although its probably sourced out-house (most likely excepting Argus/Scorpios naturally).

>>51723550

It is kinda surprising to see that NEXT already exists as an ID, although not a terribly good one alas, with reduced Inf no less! Not to mention non-rotating.

Criminal ID concept.

1 Link

At the end of your action phase draw cards up to your maximum hand size and gain a tag
This tag cannot be prevented

Getting stats on all the dakka would no doubt be nice, but i doubt any runner team would be packing that much heat unless it's a full pink mohawk campaign or somesuch.

>>51723742

Double scorch by turn two is a harsh possibility.

>>51723742
Overpowered unless countered, in which case auto-loss. Such binary outcomes are bad design.

>>51723780
This ID will be discouraged from resources

>>51723769
>>51723742

Easy Closed accounts/ASI/EoI would also be a kick to the balls.

>>51723800
Nah. It will be encouraged to use Citadel Sanctuary and DLR.

>>51723837
No more DLR though

>>51723858
After half a year, yes.

>>51723882
Waith I though that took effect last month?

>>51723898

Rotation is due in the first pack in the cycle AFTER Mars. So yeah it's 8 months minimum assuming no delays.

>>51723837
>>51723858

Best Defence is still a thing.

>>51723742
I can't think of a setup that doesn't use Citadel Sanctuary, and narrow build options is kinda eh (though I guess Geist + Tech Traders is a thing). Making the draw and tag optional or a different downside after the draw might be good, something like "The corp then chooses to deal either 1 net damage or 1 meat damage (unpreventable)."

>>51723749
>unless it's a full pink mohawk campaign or somesuch.
I mean the first line of the article introducing the second Red Sands pack is
>I’ve always wanted to pull a mag-lev heist.”

So it's not totally out there, and corp and prisec tend to be well armed.

News overload!

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/2/14/blood-and-water/

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I'm digging the new lady.

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>>51724856

Also digging the design on those mercenaries.

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5/3, but some evil potential right there.

>>51724856
She's great, and the whole tag me with resources concept seems amazing with lots of potential. Tempting the Corp to trash your cards every turn. I see the wireless net pavilion with a place there. Also a comeback of Freelancer if she makes it big.

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What's a better name for a rebalanced Netrunner fan project?
>Netrunner++
>Nyetrunner
>#runner
>any other ideas?

>>51726216
NetCorp.

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>>51726294
Took me a bit, but I get it. Even funnier when you consider FFG is a corp and I'm just 1 guy. Probably won't use it, though.

>>51726216
Cyberrunner
Androidpunk
Netroid
The Network
Forkrunner
Clonerunner
Rigrunner
The World Reina Roja Died For

>>51726216
Webjogger

>>51726521
>The Network
>Forkrunner
Netfork, Netforker lol
>>51726677
This is nice.

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>>51724914

>>51725307

This cycle looks like it's been designed specifically for me, Anarch side.

Return of the "scorched earth" (no, no the card) builds, dedicated link faction tools...

I can't say how fucking enthused I am about it all.

Surprised Alice isn't a g-mod, given her Martian heritage. Another Anarch ID that forces the corp to protect Archives... pretty powerful effect, highly disruptive. Thank god it's not random.

Really hopeful for that cycle as a whole... those NBN agendas are interesting. (that being said: Mass-driver... *another* decoder? Was it that necessary at that point in time?)

>>51727172
After seeing the anarch runner I get the feeling that Los is a bit underwhelming. I like the builds it encourages, but getting credits seems so dry and uninteresting. Think if he gets a free access on HQ instead.

>>51727506

I like Los, but he's in a pretty uncomfortable place right now: he's going to be pretty dependent on support card for derrezing, and even if he gets them, the current woes of ICE play might just mean he'll be considered barely worth the hassle of building§playing, as too little ICE gets played to deride good value out of his ability.

Wait and se.

>>51727506
>>51727629

While I think about it, we have a local player that built something for Los using Collective Consciousness of all cards, and while I haven't played against it yet, echoes I got from others makes me really impatient to do so.

Is Android-Netrunner newbie friendly?
The aesthetics just captivate me and im thinking about gettieng a friend who is into cyberpunk a beginner deck for his birthday.

>>51728143

First: you can download the rules/ from FFG's site, browse the cards from one of the various fan site allowing so 'see OP), and play online on Jinteki.net to get a feel of the game before taking the plunge. So, don't take my word for it, just give it a go.

Then, let's be perfectly honest here:

- lot of jargon, but that can prove part of the charm if you like the theme.
- relatively complex (though not overly so, a lot of the issues people have with the rules lie more at the feet of complications than complexity) game with asymmetric rules making you learn twice the stuff.
- need for a decent knowledge of the card pool - even if you don't own it - to play the game at the competitive level. I cannot stress this one enough if competitive is where the game is at for you. This is a game with a significant bluffing element, but bluffing only ever really works as a game mechanic, only ever means something, if both players know and understand what can be at stake.
If you're not a competitive player, I find this matters less, I can often see some casual players just enjoying being faced with new cards they haven't even heard about yet.

Conversely, going into the game blind with (an)other player(s) willing to get into the game? One of the best ways to start if you ask me. You're not alone in discovering the game. You make mistakes together.

All that being said, I think the game is good and worth the investment, and I think the Core set is pretty much newbie friendly. And though I can't vouch for the community everywhere, my experience with it as mostly been positive. With a real desire to help new players asking for help - ok, I heard some horror stories from Jinteki, but I don't play there myself.

>>51728143
What >>51728550 said, plus in a month or so Terminal Directive (a 2 player campaign legacy style expansion) will be out, so if you like the game, that should be your first purchase after core.

>>51728550
Thanks a lot, i will take a look after exam period ends

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Still liking this in the Howard Replacement toolbox. Way better balanced.

>>51728705

You're welcome, hope you have a great time with the game.

>>51728918
>Way better balanced.
Unusable, you mean. At least until Jackson rotates. It's much too expensive and niche use.

>>51728981
>Unusable, you mean.

Not ridiculously overpowered and single-handedly warping the game in a way that invalidates part of its base design, I mean.

And I definitely think it's playable. And more fairly costed.

>>51724856

Anyone else wondering why they thought it necessary to make her 50 min instead of reduced inf as a penalty for how disruptive the effect can be?

Do we have to take it as a sign that more effects firing from Archives are coming? Or just the designers future-proofing a bit that side of design?

>>51728918
I have two issues with this - first, the trash cost is only 3 - I know that a post-Jackson environment is also a post-Whizzard environment, but it's still low
The second is much less forgivable -2 influence means splashing it will be a really big commitment

>>51729158
A few reasons I think - limiting influence vs increasing deck size is really asking the question 'would you rather have less cool stuff more often or more cool stuff less reliably?', and a bigger deck encourages playing cards that wouldn't fit in a smaller tightly optimized deck

There's also the fact that Anarchs are well equipped to deal with a big deck.

On more directly influence-focused lines there's the issue of a (comparatively) large portion of Anarch's card pool being on the MWL. And that there's nothing about this ID that screams 'run 3 Siphon and a Levy'

>>51729580
>The second is much less forgivable -2 influence means splashing it will be a really big commitment

Which I think is fair: you have the more cumbersome/risky cards (Alexa Belsky, Preemptive Action, Disposable HQ, Sensie Actor Union, Allele Repression, Shannon Claire, Daily Business Show, Special Report...) that deal with the issue, but if you want the get out of jail free card, (you can basically get rid of two agendas - one on your turn, one on the runner's at paid ability window speed, which I think is a lot more controlled and secured than similarly priced options), well you pay the price.

Two influence might be a bit much, but then when you think GFI - which *is* in a way part of the Jackson removal package, by dealing with Agenda density issues - is one...

I wish they'd stop spamming them in yellow though. Rework was in purple.

>>51729896

Fair enough I guess...

>>51729580
Oh ouch. I could deal with the low trash cost, but Neutral 2 Influence for this is a bit of a deal breaker

>>51730074
Yeah, that was my thought - sure, it's a bit of bugger to use, it's not free and it's as trashable as Jackson - all that, that's fine. Jackson is bullshit. Incredibly useful, but he flies so high he's never even heard of the power curve.

But 2 influence? Nah. No way.

Interesting that it's a "corporation" though, that's cool, if it means something

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>>51727923
>built something for Los using Collective Consciousness of all cards
Intriguing!
That thing is a bitch with Faust

Was thinking... Honeycomb makes a lot more sense in the core + TD context...

With a Bellamy (his trash cost is going to be sensitive I think for TD campaign) on R&D, you can recur it on top of R&D, preventing access and taxing the run even more.

SNARE! would be more definitive, but given how tight econ can be in Core (and you don't have EtF to power through your expensive bioroid suite), that's not something you'll want to use repeatedly...

>>51732724

The question then is how many 'pots to put in the deck? It's annoying yes (denying a 'new' card to a makers eye for one), but there is a good chance it won't be too helpful most of the time.

>>51724882

About the only resource that is immune to corp town iirc. Thematically appropriate.

>>51730862

Jackson is also a great way to help prevent lol random losses due to flooding. That should be a feature, not a bug.

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>>51736769
You'd think so - I'm hoping an anti-flood card will be in TD as a way to get a permanent mini-Jackson, because everyone needs a way to deal with that.

NBN is fine, even without Jackson, they control draw like a motherfucker

Weyland, I guess they (and Jinteki?) deal with it by punishment, but you still need to find punishment first, and there's quite a few workarounds

HB has limited capacity for it with a few archives and R&D things, but not really. Though they're probably the best faction at scoring

>>51735110
Huh, so it is.

Actually makes me wonder (as does Fall Guy) about All-seeing I: that's "trash everything", but can you decide the order so it trashes the cards that would prevent trashings first - i.e. "start" with Fall Guy/every resource that's not Jaroginew

For today's TIL, Jaroginew is Polish, or at least Polish-derived: Jarogniew is old masculine name, jar = hot, fresh, but also angry, severe or stern; gniew = anger, wrath. So someone whose anger is very, angry, or "hot wrath".

>>51727130

Huh. So Throw a Rock is back, but now in Agenda Form.

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>>51737054
Pretty much, but in a less extreme form.

The most hilarious way to use it would be: get another agenda stolen on the runner's turn -> Midseasons for 5 -> install Meteor -> Psychographics

>>51736769

Yes, and he's way too good at it making a whole side of the game basically irrelevant.

So it's good that we have his function now on several cards that are better balanced.

>>51737126
"Biotics > install Rock > install Rock > Psycho > Psycho > throw two rocks" is a thing I want to do now. Doable too with Blue Sun and/or Stinson.

>>51737775
Which side is that by the way

>>51737775

If you are talking about non-interactive milling, then good riddance to that bullcrap so long as JHow is here to save the day.

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>>51737126

At 2 Agenda Points, it'd also work pretty well with my Argus + Board deck I've had hilarious success with.
Which is also getting a buff in Terminal Directives thanks to this guy.

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>>51737920
>Argus + Board deck I've had hilarious success with.
>desire to know more intensifies

>>51737823

Manipulation of the corp clock by the runner. That's supposed to be a core Crim strategy. Jackson has killed it dead in the water for the longest time.

To quote an old thread:

>I would say having ways to deal with agenda flood in ways that still leave windows for the runner runner to capitalize on is good for the game. That means that strategies that force agenda flood (whether Fisk or the old Criminal agenda snipping threat + HQ pressure that has been neutered for so long) at least have a decent window to act.

>Complaining about agenda flood when a neutral card like Preemptive Action in the pool, is like complaining that dying to that early scorch kill was a matter of chance, when it was a matter of skill most of the time (how often do you hear new players complaining about "agenda flood" when really their draw was perfectly within margins, but they didn't want to have to take the early game risks?). Only less aggravating because losing a few point is not losing the game.

>Agenda flooding being inherently, from a core mechanical standpoint, part of the clock of the corp, and of the tools of the runner trade, makes it so that mitigating it is a tough balancing act. The flood shouldn't by any stretch be "easily" mitigated. And finding that right spot where corp players don't feel (and I do believe the perception of it is probably more important than the reality) like their games too often end up being a matter of chance, but the runners can still use that part of the design space reliably enough (let's face it, Fisk is a laughing stock, and him being the *specialized* runner for that very strategy tells you all you have to know about the state of it for other runners*), is very hard indeed.

>>51737936

I haven't played in a while, lemme dig it up.

Blunt Force Trauma

Argus Security: Protection Guaranteed

Agenda (16)
2x Global Food Initiative ●●
3x Hostile Takeover
3x NAPD Contract
2x Private Security Force
3x Veterans Program
3x Vulcan Coverup

Asset (9)
2x Dedicated Response Team
3x PAD Campaign
2x Space Camp
2x The Board

Operation (10)
3x Hedge Fund
2x Scorched Earth
2x SEA Source ●●●●
3x Shipment from Kaguya

Barrier (9)
3x Eli 1.0 ●●●
3x Ice Wall
3x Spiderweb

Code Gate (6)
3x Enigma
3x Quandary

Sentry (6)
3x Fenris ●●●●● ●
3x Shadow

15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
25 agenda points (between 24 and 25)
56 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Data and Destiny

This has been a while back though. Man though, I think that I've got it set up that if you have the Board in play the Runner literally can't win through Agenda points.

>>51737941

To go at it the other way around: Howard is so good he single-handedly allows the corp to self-flood by over-drawing then get rid of the agendas for a later date at no penalty whatsoever, basically warping the whole clock of the corp.

That has had a profound effect on the game.

If Rumor Mill was there for a reason it's probably more him than Caprice or Ash, which are just collateral.

>>51738005
>56 cards
wut. not even going to 59, if you're above 55?

Also hilariously non-MWL.

And what's to stop the runner just trashing the Board?

>>51738005
>no MWL
>56 cards
Just.

>>51738050

ICE and lots of it.

Like I said, this is an old deck from ages ago.

>>51738075
>ICE and lots of it.

ICE-wise, 21/56 (37.5%) isn't that far from the old 18/49 (36.73%) deck. Granted, those are the exception nowadays.

So when are Genesis and Spin going to be removed?

>>51738204
In half a year or so.

>>51738204

Around September, assuming all other monthly releases are on time and no breaks whatsoever (Mars 1 this month, then TD/42 in March, Mars 2-6 from April-August, then the first pack of next cycle).

>>51738216
When dies it officialy start? When the new cycle starts?

>>51738324
The one after the Mars cycle, yes.

>>51737941
>>51738013
I don't know, doesn't Jackson just move the agenda density from the hand to RnD instead? Sure there's a higher chance of stealing agendas if HQ is flooded compared to hitting RnD, but you can still somewhat capitalize from it even if Jackson did shuffle the agendas back in. Self-flooding and reshuffling is strong, yes, but if anything I'm glad that you can't just force the corp to hold 5 agendas in hand without being able to do anything about it.

Plus I do think it's less that Jackson is strong - he is, no denying that - but it's more that there aren't any cards that can challenge his draw and reshuffle ability. As soon as a challenger appears, he becomes a lot more restricted. PolOp and Rumor Mill both threatened Jackson himself, while Hades Shard off of Street Peddler could've accessed Archives before the shuffle, but ultimately they are playable around by shuffling agendas in immediately. If there's a card that says "whenever the corp shuffles RnD, you may trash this card to force the corp to search RnD for an agenda, reveal it, and add it to HQ", it probably would've made Jackson less effective.

As a side though, I will say that of the replacements, Disposable HQ is the more interesting of the bunch, followed by Hasty Relocation.

>>51738430
>I don't know, doesn't Jackson just move the agenda density from the hand to RnD instead?

Well, yes, so he kills strategies that try to force the corp into holding agendas in HQ, by definition.
The instant speed is a real killer. there's basically little to no window for the runner to capitalize on.

>but if anything I'm glad that you can't just force the corp to hold 5 agendas in hand without being able to do anything about it.

As said upthread:
>Alexa Belsky, Preemptive Action, Disposable HQ, Sensie Actor Union, Allele Repression, Shannon Claire, Daily Business Show, Special Report, Whampoa Reclamation.

All allow you to do something about it. All better balanced than Howard by offering the runner some leeway (a turn window, a significant cost, a server/card for the runner to avoid or go to, a costly prevention effect, bottom of R&D opening Showing off shenanigans, possible luck of the draw issues...)
GFI also allows you to mitigate the effects at deck building stage.

>>51738672

>If there's a card that says "whenever the corp shuffles RnD, you may trash this card to force the corp to search RnD for an agenda, reveal it, and add it to HQ", it probably would've made Jackson less effective.

Silver bullet to a silver bullet. Howard is a problem card. I'm thinking capitalizing on rotation and offering better balanced options was a way better choice from the designers.

>but it's more that there aren't any cards that can challenge his draw and reshuffle ability

The problem has long been that not only it's too good at what it does, you can even make the runner pay for it. The old trick of leaving Howard on the table forcing the runner's hand into fruitlessly running either him or archive to force a recursion pop was ugly.
That is not only was it too good, not only it left the runner with little to no window to capitalize on for that strategy, but you made the runner pay for it too. There's no point - none - at which the corp doesn't come up way on top of the transaction as far as Howard is concerned.

Jackson solves 2 fundamental problems: agenda flooding in HQ and mill (ala Wanton and Keyhole, not just Noise).

But that's not the important part. The important part is that he does both in 1 card, one which is accessible to all factions. I am all for that, if it were toned down numbers-wise.

>>51737941

And, though relatively minor point it also raises the fact that many a Runner game has been lost simply due to an inability to pull breakers. It's just something that happens. There are tools for it, but it's still very much part of the game. I think having Jackson's abilities split up amongst component cards is a good solution.

That said, it feels like there are some good solutions to Agenda flood on actual Agendas, they're just all 5/3's. Do you think a 3/1 that let the Corp shuffle one card from hand to replace it a turn would be fair?

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>>51738686
>The old trick of leaving Howard on the table forcing the runner's hand into fruitlessly running either him or archive to force a recursion pop was ugly.
I ran into that situation playing Silhouette. I ran HQ with the "excuse" of exposing something, and then installed and trashed PolOp to trash Jackson: 4 points.

>>51738769
>2 fundamental problems: agenda flooding in HQ and mill
I think that's precisely one of the problems, those are aspects that Criminals and Anarchs exploit to steal agendas. If you solve both of these problems with a single card that anybody can play, then you're closing a lot of doors for deckbuilding development.
In that regard, I'm really liking Interdiction concept.
Would Interdiction help a Criminal like Fisk?

>>51739420
>If you solve both of these problems with a single card that anybody can play, then you're closing a lot of doors for deckbuilding development.
Except the card does have limitations, like being one-use, and needing to be installed and vulnerable to trashing. It can be played around even in the match-ups it counters. I'm not saying JHow is balanced, I'm saying cards with multiple different use cases are good design because it prevents the cardpool from turning into silver bullet city.

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I'm a bit out of the loop, is that Spoiler Ken a real card?

>>51739463

Sifr has limitations, too. It's limited to one encounter, once a turn. DLR is a resource that only works while tagged. Both are still considered plenty degenerate by the community at large (though I suppose in DLRs case there are more aggregate parts). The limitations are still fairly negligible.

>>51739420

Had fun exploiting the pop with Jak out of Sunny. Bonus points if John Masanori was also installed.

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>>51740299
>John Masanori
You don't need that luser*, Nexus on a Jak run,4x DLR hits, Citadel (with 3x Power Tap) is the way to be real cancer

*see Monitor

>>51739734
No.
>>51740235
Are you saying limitations in general are useless? Because I already agree with everyone that the numbers on JHow need to be toned down.
Sifr would be balanced too if it gave a piece of ice -1 or -2 STR, or if DLR was more expensive to install/easier to trash.
Limitations not limiting enough are a problem, but you don't need to butcher the core of the cards' functionality to do it.

>>51740465

I'm not saying limitations in general are useless, I'm saying that sometimes the limitations on a card aren't all that limiting either from a player perspective or from a "this seemed reasonable in theory but is not in practice" outcome. The cards still have limitations built in but that doesn't mean they aren't still problematic.

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How can you profit from this card?

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So, Jinteki in Red Sands looks spiky as all fuck
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/2/15/kakugo/

Do note that pic related is not Unique, so fun times ahead.
Also it appears to be Kominu's dog that's getting powered up

We'd already seen (blury) Kakugo, but it looks even nicer now (shame about Parasite, as ever)

>>51740355

I'm not trying to be cancerous. I'm running Yanni-boy because he's clickless draw. Even more so with Jackie-boy. 6-click turns are a hell of a drug.

>>51743517
Jak's just 5 isn't he?

Or do you go J.B. as well?

Had a conversation with someone today and, while I kinda see where he's coming from, I have some trouble seeing Alice as "Anarch's Fisk".

>>51738769
> I am all for that, if it were toned down numbers-wise

What number can you tone done?
If anything, the biggest issue isn't quantitative, it's qualitative. It's the instant speed.
I'm thinking Whampoa , Shannon Claire and Allele Repression are well costed influence wise for what they do (remember the latest can send itself back to HQ too).

Preemptive Action is more for less, but you have to concede a one turn window to the runner. Which is nothing abusive.

As I said, it's good. Now you have to think of the solution you want, can afford, and can make work in your deck. Instead of having the one-all that has no downside (can be a victim of R&D lock isn't really a downside).

>51742905
>even MOAR news overload

Good lord. Jniteki doesn't fuck around.

>>51743816
>Jniteki doesn't fuck around.
No they do not.
Hell, unless you have the damned critic you're going to have a bad time with that agenda

>>51739420
>Would Interdiction help a Criminal like Fisk?

I'm thinking Interdiction can do plenty for some Crim builds. Hell that's the card that makes same look at Rumor Mill and go "uh"?
There's a strong redundancy, only Interdiction is fair. It forces the corp rez/"announce" during its turns cards it needs to play on the runner's, opening them to PolOp. Ties into the expose/anti econ side of Crims pretty well.

>>51739420
>I ran into that situation playing Silhouette. I ran HQ with the "excuse" of exposing something, and then installed and trashed PolOp to trash Jackson: 4 points.

Ok, I'm missing something in the timing here, did you have interdiction out?

>>51744198
>Ok, I'm missing something in the timing here, did you have interdiction out?

I meant Rumor Mill. And ok, no need to answer I got what happened. Coffee is life.

I don't if/how much I'm disappointed in Mr Stone when I look at Synth DNA Modification.

OH LORD I just noticed the influence on Synth DNA Modification.

HB's going to be all over it, isn't it?

>>51738686
Hardly a complete silver bullet, there's plenty of RnD shuffle cards corp side. Plus, I'm arguing for the card before any replacement for Jackson existed, probably somewhere within Spin Cycle. Point is that if they addressed Jackson early - of course in a way that wasn't too silver bullety - he would've had a lesser effect. Just take Rumor Mill for example, you have to pop him early just because you're afraid the card existed. He's still strong, I agree, but having cards, options to lessen the price of any transaction with Jackson would've been nice to have.

On hindsight though, the "take agenda shuffle" card could be too strong with Keyhole.

>>51742905
We're going to have a full month without any Netrunner news after this aren't we.

>>51744530

Well, if as Mr Stone said TD is to be released in about a month, we still need to get the runner side presented, which means we should have at least some news.

>>51744456
Haas does like its Synth

>>51742150
Selling it to Aesop.

>>51743816
Alice is somewhat better than Fisk I'd say, since she has synergy with Archives Interface. I think that card could actually even merit being splashed a bit more now thanks to the amount of recursion available to the corp.

>>51744456
EtF definitely has the money to keep recurring it atleast, a potential 3 net damage during a run will definitely hurt.

>>51744474
>Hardly a complete silver bullet

It's a card that would be designed, a card you'd put in your deck, for the sole reason of addressing a card that itself is addressing a core element of the game.

Let's not delude ourself. Other occasions (12 cards if we go up to Lunar, to put things in context; 28 as of now) would be a cool bonus (Analog Dreamer and Keyhole notwithstanding), but the reason people would be playing that card is Jackson.
Not to mention, poor Aggressive Negotiation and Mutate don't need that.

>>51744847
Eh, okay, I'll admit it would be a pretty silver bullet include if it existed. My point still remains that ways to challenge Jackson existed, there would be less situations that the corps could've benefited using him.

I guess in the end Jackson is more of a "not lose" card though, even with no cards that challenge him directly, corps are still in a pretty bad spot now.

>>51744835

Honestly, I find Fisk is... well better than given credit. Having build for and tested him for a while, I can say that when I played him in a non-competitive* meta that doesn't auto-include 3 Howard, he could become fairly oppressive. Granted that was before the advent of asset spam.

People tend to forget how much of the "agenda flood" of early Netrunner was in no small part a product of how native Criminal tools (if only Inside Job and Femme) coupled with the efficient Anarch rig allowing for disgusting snipe + HQ pressure plays. Which certainly magnified the actual agenda flooding issue (whose impact was in turn magnified by the tournament format). And Fisk can somewhat reproduce that when you manage.

That being said, It's not even a matter of better or worse, it's more a matter of how they play. Alice and Fisk don't want the same things. So that equivalence, while I think I see where it's coming from... doesn't work for me.

*: and sure you could tell me that's because of the difference in player level, but then some of the best pilots I know are non-competitive players.

Hairsplitting debate going on right now about whether Obokta Protocol's damage can be prevented.

God... I'll wait for the ruling.

>>51745379
>Eh, okay, I'll admit it would be a pretty silver bullet include if it existed. My point still remains that ways to challenge Jackson existed

And my point is still that I think offering several better balanced options, as much as possible across factions, some without the cost of influence even, is better for the game in the long run than having that one card that does it all way too well and needs in turn to be addressed by other cards.

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>>51742905
Be RP
3 AP ice on Centrals
As many Synth as you can get
3x Bioethics
As many Hostile infrastructure as you can install and afford

>>51745411
The point of comparison is probably just doing stuff to HQ. The style of attacks for both IDs are pretty solidly adhering to their respective factions (choosing between losing tempo when using up cards or keeping tempo and trashing cards the corp may want for Fisk, and being forced to trash a card they wanted to keep for Alice).

Speaking of which, I wonder if we'll get some Alice in Wonderland references.

>>51745880
Touché.

>Obokata
Only with Film Critic I think. Argus uses suffer as well and I don't remember if you can prevent that damage, but I think I remember an instance where preventing a "suffer damage as a cost" means you're not paying the cost, thus not being able to do the thing.

>>51746470
>I think I remember an instance where preventing a "suffer damage as a cost" means you're not paying the cost, thus not being able to do the thing.

Current argument - if I'm not misrepresenting it, I'm only half following the conversation, too heated for my taste right now - is that the ruling in the FAQ is only about trashing as a cost - ie since if you prevent the trashing, the card is not trashed, and as such the cost no paid.

I don't see why they think the cost here being damage is enough of a significant distinction to say that the prevention doesn't also prevent the payment. Personally betting they're wrong on that one.

>Speaking of which, I wonder if we'll get some Alice in Wonderland references.

Had they wanted to do that, they'd have given her Link so we'd play her with Rabbit-Hole. Pfffffff....

>>51744456

And I had such high hopes for criminals.

>>51746946

There's something really weird in thinking how Aaron Marron and Jarogniew Mercenaries might reverse the classic situation of Anarch powering damage through draw and Crims not getting damaged.

Not that on the Lam isn't a thing...

>>51747424
>>51747424
Criminals don't get tagged, Anarchs are the ones that don't die. That how it's always been, kinda. Wonder how Crims will be getting themselves out of this one.

>>51746057

Truly the ultimate boss fight for any criminal.

Does Archives Interface work with Eater?

>>51750822
No

Hey guys, does damage trigger the Skorpios effect?

>>51751712
>Whenever the Runner takes damage, s/he must trash one card at random from grip for each point of damage suffered.
So yes.

>>51751795
Damn. There's some potential for extreme rudeness there

>>51750822
Yes.

>>51752055
No

>>51747424
>>51748087

IIRC, doesn't MCA informant sorta counters them? What with the runner being 'encouraged' to bid adieu to their services and all?

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>>51753043
I think MCA's ability only trashes MCA

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>>51753058
But it depends - it's installed as a Condition Counter with "trash this CARD" on it, which is pretty awkward - it depends whether "this card" is the connection, or MCA. And if condition counters are also considered to be cards
(Tithonium has a similar issue with that - it can't host cards, but may be able to host condition counters like OAI)

>>51753058
You can barely see that is reads "this connection gains"" the trash this card ability, because the first word is bolded like subtypes usually are.

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>>51753134
Is "this card" MCA or the connection?

I'm hoping for the latter.

Also, pic related's connection-ness will have to be addressed

>>51753218
I just told you, it's the connection.
>the connection gains "click, 2c: trash this card"
The word connection is partially obscured, but recognizable because it is bolded.

>>51753239

If it is that easy to get rid of that informant, one would wonder who would even bother to use him to begin with?

>>51753274
Because you have to trash your Aaron Marron/Beth to get rid of him.

>>51753294
This. It's either "trash it or I'll do bad things to you".

>>51753043

If you reinstall Jarogniew Mercenaries over an MCA Informant-ed Jarogniew Mercenaries, you get to trash it because it's unique, but do you also get a bonus counter from the MCA tag?

I think not.

>>51754633
I agree with you

>>51743586

Jak (free run) + John (Free draw). I guess it's more like "five and and a half" unless you're facing off against Asset Spam

New player here.

Question: If I install PAD Campaign on a remote server, and it doesn't get trashed during the runner's run, can I rez it during their discard/final click/before I draw step to get it online and get the credit in the same turn?

>>51758276

Yup, you can.

Welcome to the game. Hope you have a good time.

>>51758323
Thanks man! It's super fun, I'm loving this living card game.

>>51742150

It's hard to see where they were going with that card. Less versatile than Sacrificial Construct, but enduring if needs be, takes MU, but all in all a bit more resilient to trashing itself...

Wait for the corp to have more and better - repeat-able- hardware-trashing options?
Which isn't exactly a desirable proposition from where I stand.

>>51736823

Thanks for the polish stuff by the way. Stupid rude me.

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>>51758680
I don't know, being able to smash the runner's stuff occasionally would be nice...

>>51759579
>nice
>that image

I'll punt you!

>>51761397

Did we ever get an answer as to what that thing behind Ken is supposed to be?

We're pretty sure it's not his console at least...

>>51761455
It's obviously his stand

>>51761685
Which by the way is Faerie's face on top of Star Platinum body

>>51761685
>>51761758

I didn't mean the reference, but more what it was supposed to be in game? Program? Hardware? AI connection?

What do you mean, it's not a reference? Oh lord!

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>>51762660

uh? Di-V isn't from core, it's from Flashpoint.

Look at the small icon on the lower-right corner. It's different from the "start" sign you'll see on say, Pad Campaign - which marks it as a core card.

Did you get it as bonus maybe?

>>51761685

This must be the work of an enemy Sysop!

>>51762737
No, I realized that after I made the post and checked the card. It got mixed in with my core set cards. I tried to delete the post, but then you came in and ruined everything.

Way to go. Thanks Anon.

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Random, but amusing connection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakugo_virus

>>51762772

You'll have to forgive me. I'm afraid I don't see it.

>>51762737
>>51762751

Ruining things is what we do.

Does highlight one problem of the Stealth cards: if you're a new player interested in a given card, you can just buy its data pack and play it, but Stealth? You're going to have to track down several cards over several packs/box.

Cycling out of the Stealth chips looks ridiculous for now. At least until we get to know what kind of replacement they'll get. If any.

>>51762841

Just amused there's a virus that shares a name with the card. Especially after we got Macrophage and its quote

>One way to get rid of a Virus is to get a nastier virus.

I shouldn't be happy to Parasite it, but I'll be.

>>51763552

The "other" lady in red looks like she's going to have a lot of funny toys to target the runner with coming cycle.

>>51763771
Hanzo and Kakugo will be beast. There's enough damage going around for a net damage glacier build I think, with Tori Hanzo making it even easier to get a kill during a run. Hopefully the community will notice and stop looking at glacier as just "make the runner not have money to get in".

>>51764134

I'm thinking there's a good possibility of that. That's already something you could do fairly well, but all those new toys are really raising the ante. Being both potentially fairly strong in rush AND in glacier.

Amusingly, my old jank all cybernetics deck would probably do pretty well against it.

>>51761758
Fuck me I hadn't even realized that when I posted the stand thing. It literally is Faerie slapped onto Star Platinum

>>51764134

Well technically, with feedback filter, it does indeed become a question of cold hard credits assuming the runner doesn't want to get pinged to death by net damage.

Going to need an awful lot of creds though...

>>51767942
That's true. Pretty interesting that a lot of previously binder fodder cards are becoming relevant and relatively balanced. There's enough recursion to merit Archives Interface for one.

Isn't first datapack of Mars supposed to be out by now (based on ffg's article)? Where are full spoilers?

>>51768955
Isn't it next week?

>>51768955

Someone jumped the gun?

Generally, the cards on cardgamedb get updated a short spell after the release announcement, but here still nothing.

>>51769219

That's the legal date for tourneys, since players are supposed to have some time to be able to practice with the new stuff.

No idea why spoilers haven't appeared yet, although it could be up in a few hours for all we know.

Trying to make a glacier Palana deck with Biotic NA plan, should I keep 3-of Shocks in to keep centrals spiky, or do I swap it for econ/other cards? Currently only have 3 Sundews, 3 PADs, 2 Pop-ups, 3 Hedge, and a Subliminal for econ.

>>51770654
I think 3 more econ cards would do good, but the spikes are great. If you also have snares, then you might not need shocks. What's ICE composition? And the agenda (Sales Team)?

>>51771360
No snares since I don't have anything to close a kill with, though maybe worth considering a 1-of if I can end up with surplus econ consistently. 16 ice, the only expensive ice being two Tsurugi, a Tollbooth, and a DNA Tracker, the rest are all less than 3 to rez.

As for agendas, 3 Sales Team, 3 Niseis, a GFI, an Improved Protein Source, an Improved Portals, and a Genetic Resequencing.

>>51768955
Like >>51769219 I heard next week, though usually we have spoilers more than just what ffg has put out

Looking forward to it though, Weyland is gonna go fast with Oberth rockets

>>51771466
What's genetics resequencing for? I mean, in you deck. Improved protein sauce in an asset deck is just asking for trouble, might aswell start a medical fundraising. In short, I'd think some more about your agenda composition. CST is awesome btw.

Tangentially related:
You want to know why Jinteki has so many cards that gives the runner money or cards? Because they dont care. The runner is going to faceplant an ambush and die, or lose all the cards in his grip in a psi game. If you are not ambushing you should consider not giving the runner free money.

>>51774569
Sorry, I completely filtered Nisei in the agendas. Skip the genetics question.

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What are we not seeing?

>>51776896
Some convoluted thing involving Brahman and the Dogs? Best I got.

>>51774569
Improved Protein is for NAing with a Biotic or FA with double Biotic, so hopefully worth the risk. Working with a limited card pool too so I can't really support an ambush plan, but I guess I'll leave the Shocks in since I vaguely remember my friend saying the runner will draw more often to recover from it, which will fire Palana more. Thanks for the advice.

Spoilers ahoy.

https://imgur.com/a/O0Ftk

>>51778782
We're seeing last-minute power hose after somebody realized
>The first time you encounter
would make it too strong

>>51779117
That'd be true if SMC and Clone Chip didn't exist. I have a feeling Khan is about passing ice for cheap and setting up with the extra information in mind. Why she got 40/12 though is a puzzle.

>>51779084

Hooray, yet another decent red console that-looks-like-Dinosaurus.

Nothing space kitten level for the runners I see.

>>51779084
I like Pushing the Envelope. Too bad it's in a faction that already has too many toys to play with. Maw is definitely strong, though it is competing with Sifr. There's a weird interaction with Upgrades on Archives too.

Spot the Prey is the "Infiltration > do something" play into a single card. Probably useful if you can commit into the run, and you don't have the influence for Deuces Wild, but could kill you if you hit a Psychic Field.

I wonder if Bio-Modeled Network is for post-Film Critic situations, especially for stealing Obokata. Obvious synergy with Net Shield, otherwise no real use outside of Jinteki. Network Exchange isn't unique, eurgh. Shaper for the next Headlock builds?

Mad Dash is hilarious thematically. Probably good as an alternative to Freedom Through Equality since it's free.

Basically guaranteed brain damage from NEXT Wave 2 is pretty good, Cybernetics Division is going to be scary. Defense Construct is the first advanceable upgrade, and thankfully 3 influence to avoid too much splashing in Jinteki.

Not sure how useful Net Analytics will be, draw is already something NBN is good at. People have already noted how funny SYNC BRE's second sub is, assuming it's missing the "until the end of the run" text. Imagine the reaction if it wasn't a typo and the -1 access lasts for the whole game.

Quarantine System seems like Blackmail tech, but it's also something that can help rez ice and advance cards in Jemison. A 4/2 from a 2/1 is definitely doable, and cheaper ice is definitely a bonus.

Signal Jamming is neat for SMC shenanigans. Khondi Plaza will probably be silly in RP Prison, not that that deck needs the credits.

A fair pack overall, other than possibly Net Analytics and maybe Maw. Nothing to boost corp power levels significantly either.

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The Mushin no shin promo art kinda bothers me.
I like the art aesthetically a lot more than the original.
This art is damn beautiful.
But it has no relation to the card whatsoever.
Whereas the original has dude who's gambling just staring right fucking at you like a smug asshole.
It fits the card perfectly.
Alt art looks so much nicer, old art works much better.
It's annoying.

Mad Dash looks great for my Val Keyhole deck.
Too bad keyhole is fucking rotating out in a few months. LIVING CARD GAME MY ASS!

>>51746057
I want to install 3 on a World's Plaza behind 2 kaguros...or a Kaguro and a tracker. Take your pick.

>>51780810
I think Biomodeled doesn't work with Obokata. The text is an additional cost, and as you probably know, if you prevent the cost the effect doesn't happen.
Mad Dash goes straight to all "look the top of R&D" decks: Sunny, Adam, Geist, Hayley spy camera jank.
I really like Maw, I'm really liking Alice archetype. It could be combined with Hemorrhage, but there is no need.

Quarantine System is... costly for what it does. I like that it's modular though. And sacrificing the 0 pointer against Blackmail decks isn't a bad move. Not to mention, another Jemison triggering effect.

Sync BRE doesn't mention "till the end of the run" for the card access reduction. I can already hear people arguing.

Since we've been talking Howard replacements, really liking Defense Construct.

Next Wave 2... seems HB doesn't fuck around either on Mars. In CD I think I'd still prefer to couple it with Curfew, but outside, I could see Defective Brainchips making it hurt.

Spot the Prey is over-costed.

Bio-Modeled network... doesn't have many interesting targets for now.. Obokata, Neural Katana, Cortex Lock, advanced Mausolus, Next Gold, Philotic, Ronin, Self Destruct, Snare. Depending on that influence cost on Biometric Spoofing, I could see it be even more niche. (is this our first look at the new Shaper runner?)

Really digging The Maw.

Network Exchange + Diwan. Yum.

Net Analytics is... specialized, but has the potential of being awful in the right build.

>>51784440

I do think you're right on Obokata... still, letting that bee answered first.

>I really like Maw, I'm really liking Alice archetype. It could be combined with Hemorrhage, but there is no need.

Same. I'm thinking Hemorrhage would be overkill. Power to the People though? Thematic, would probably not be that hard to land (HQ is unlikely to be heir primary defense target against Alice given all the ways you have to hurt it without even going there), fits the 50 size deck

>>51779084

Thanks by the way.

>>51779283

The 12 inf really is the cherry on top. Hard to understand when you can't even pinpoint the value of the ID ability in the first place.

>>51779117

Would have made it a brutal early game ID for sure.

>>51784576

God damn it! I meant Fear the Masses, not Power to the People.

>>51776896
It's for bringing back her stupid birds, that are far too inefficient to be using in the first place for their intended purpose.
Everything about Khan makes me sad, because I love the idea that they were trying to go for.

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This is interesting. As a collection of the best youtube videos about the game.

http://www.anrvideoawards.com/

>>51785279

I understand that's one possible use (as I said, that's something people wanting to play Los birds are going to have to be wary of, though Savoir Faire), but that's just not enough.

And the birds are going to suffer the comparison with Crecentus while it's in the pool. Not as if you could spam them to compensate.

>>51786528
The birds are just fucking terrible in general. Too expensive to install, too expensive to actually use their ability. The 1 credit discount you get from Khan's ability is pointless when they're so inefficient in general.
It honestly makes me mad, because you can make an ice destruction deck so easily, that runs super fucking cheap with Sifr around. Why is Khan so extremely underpowered? Derezzing some ice occasionally isn't that bad in comparison

>>51786578

Yeah, the cost difference between derrez and Ice trash is ridiculous (Sifr or no Sifr, though that thing is as always just putting oil on the fire).

And I'm sad for Khan because I like her. She plays very differently, which I always enjoy. But unlike, say, Nasir, it's hard to make *sense* of her. Some pieces intersect but the vectors are all over the place.

The more I think about it, the more I find Spot the Prey is way overcosted. 2 Credits, cannot expose ICE AND you're forced to make the run, meaning you need a second possible valid target in case the exposed card happen to be an Ambush... at that point, I find the click compression advantage it could have over Infiltration is moot.

>>51786731
>AND you're forced to make the run
A run, any run, not like it has to be on what you exposed

>>51786902

Yes, so as I said, you need another valid target. If you're playing against a compact deck that only has one scoring remote and centrals with teeth you do not want to run through unwarranted, you're not in a nice spot.

Which isn't *awful* but then that's a two inf card that just doesn't compare that well with a neutral one.

Palana deck upthread here, came off of a 4 person Store Champs with 1 runner win and 1 corp win, 1 runner loss and 1 corp loss, 1 time out draw with runner, and a corp conceded win. Did decently corpside, the single loss was due to a play mistake of making a new remote instead of stacking to rush out a score. Criminal deck kind of betrayed me by not giving any econ in the 2 full games I played. Probably gonna bump up the econ more and dump some of the odder cards (too poor to play Algo, and all the games were relatively fast. Enhanced Vision is fun, but someone here was right; not worth it if you can hit RnD enough).

>>51786731
Spot the Prey doesn't make you commit which server you run I think, though exposing a Psychic Field will feel bad.

I think the biggest clue for playing Khan is Tracker. Have breakers in hand, Tracker through the first ice, then install a breaker that can deal with that ice. Maybe if we can get more ways to pass ice and/or keep the install cheap, Khan will be more efficient.

>>51784490
Hardly any of those names ring a bell, what are you talking about?

>>51791841

See >>51779084

Was thinking playing Khan this afternoon... leaving aside theme for now (and even then Crims had FAO in Core, not as if ICE destruction was exclusive to Anarchs back then), from a balance standpoint, wouldn't it have made more sense to give ICE destruction to crims - aka the faction with the suboptimal breakers, and derez options to Anarchs (conversely, with Xanadu, Reina and Rook in faction, not as if that anti-econ angle was absent from the faction either)?

>>51791945
So giving to the same faction ICE destruction AND all the money? No way. The inefficient breakers for crims made sense because they could afford it, and they didn't made that many runs anyway (remember, remote sniping faction, expose to not waste runs, etc. Not that ANYBODY played it that way)
ICE destruction made sense in anarch because they were poor and played with the concept of ice destruction as an alternative way of reducing run costs. They might have the best breakers in terms of cost to break ratio, but that's because they made no money from it, and several strong enough ICE could deplete their datasuckers pretty fast.

>>51792647

I certainly agree with you looking at the beginning of the game and *probably* it's current state too, it's more the way it has evolved I was trying to put in perspective.

Unrelated, but Bill gates talking about raising taxes for robots/automated work has a delicious Android feel to it.

Granted, I'd like him to flat out say those concerns are gaining traction right now because of the way even managerial positions are transitioning and being automated.

>>51792789
Oh, I thought you were Nyetrunner guy and was talking about core.
I'd certainly would like some crim card that took the concept of forcing the corp to make hard decision again, like forged activation orders.

Sad that Khondi is about number of remotes instead of number of assets... would have made an interesting World Plaza support.

Can't have that obviously.

>>51792647

FWIW, in an earlier period, Noise with an early-ish pawnshop could get pretty rich and still go all crazy with parasites.

>>51781950

Well, mushin is all about MIND GAMES after all, so...

>>51776896

> one of the many faces of 'Andromeda'.

>>51784490

What do think about the previously spoiled cards in the same pack?

Those jinteki cards look painful.

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>>51794155
>World Plaza support.
>Can't have that obviously.
Hah, no, of course not

pic highly related

>>51737920
Now, how to score the cleaners, ever.

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>>51800036
Early, fast, and under the threat of the runner's imminent demise

Or at least that's how I usually manage it when I'm playing Argus or BoN - I wouldn't say it works every time, far from it, but guaranteeing at least a couple of meat and often a few tags really helps, and thinking a bit about ice helps - Mother Goddess, for example, can be really nice, or just stacking a couple of cheap-ish ice.

Pic related is really nice in Weyland, seeing as you're almost never bluffing anyway, and often using publics

How do we make Anarchs poor again?

Been thinking a lot about the less straightforward Anarch ice destruction tools like Run Amok and En Passant, and someone's post here made it click; ice destruction is a form of economy, by keeping the server run costs cheaper. Why it became overbearing is because an Anarch Runner is usually rich on top of it, so either the ice gets destroyed, or all the subs get broken. If the runner's economy is weaker, then ice destruction would hit the corp less hard since some of the subs are bound to fire, or make the runner poor enough for a window.

So what are common econ tools for Anarchs? Temujin is a definite mention. Day Job is fair since it takes a turn, and Liberated Accounts is going away soon.

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>>51801079
I hope Temujin gets MWL'd like Mumba Temple - 3 inf would do a world of good.

Liberated wasn't too much of a problem, but Career Fair got it slotted more often, and can also be used for standards like Daily Casts - which is interesting, because it's not like the options weren't there before CF, it's just they're slotted a lot more often now, even if people don't even use the Fair.

>>51801806
I usually analyze econ cards by dividing the net profit by the number of clicks. This way Armitage would have an efficiency of 11/7 (6 clicks + install). DayJob is 8/4. Liberated Accounts 10/5. Temujin is 16/6.
This puts the anarch cards at 2c per click, Temujin is over that line, while cards like Magnum Opus means they'll never get that kind of efficiency (although it changes the lowest you earn with a single click, that helps)

>>51801079

Difficult one.

I'm thinking Anarchs are not so much rich because of the credits, as they are because of the alternative econ solutions.

Datasucker (and all the variations thereof around str reduction), D4V1D, Faust, ICE destruction, Sifr, the bad pub cards, DDOS (a card that has Criminal written all over it except you don't want the faction that has Inside Job to also have it... but then they gave En Passant to Anarchs)... all those exist to support a faction that was supposedly (and originally certainly was) struggling to get its install econ going and then keep credits in the bank.

And so the problem is twofold: you certainly have the econ they can import from other factions to make their liquidity burst (and some of it has been under-costed influence-wise*, or undervalued), but you also have how efficient they've become at not paying. And you'd have to tighten both sides to help solve the issue, I believe.

What if the cutlery set costed one credit more? Two?

*: I often find myself pondering over Career Fair's one influence. Makes sense to a point if compared to Modded, given it targets far less cards... but qualitatively those resource targets are most often cards that will fasten your econ engine...to a small draw penalty, to which Anarchs (or Shapers) never really ever struggled over...

>>51802224

Liberated Account is an interesting one.

Before Career Fair, installing and using LA meant: having six credits in the bank, which wasn't an easy thing kep in orange, and then:

-> Install
-> click to gain 4 credits (you're still at two below what you had at the start of the turn)
-> click to gain 4 credits (you're only at two above what you had at the start of the turn... had you not installed LA and just clicked for credits, you could have run with that same amount of credits at click three instead of last)

You couldn't really use LA as install econ (unless going full Day Job, which is how people played it mostly before it got shelved... until Career Fair changed the value proposition), it was meant as supplemental mid game econ... to a faction that had trouble keeping the kind of liquidity that allowed its install in the first place.
As a lot of Anarch econ cards, it was messy and difficult to use - to slot in the right deck - on purpose.

>>51798176

Kakugo is going to suffer yer old Parasite target woes. If it manages to stay, that's an interesting central option -especially R&D - for 1000 cut styles.

On remote, between it, Musashi, Synth DNA Modification... offers interesting options to score/rush Obokata (thankfully the 4 creds cost make it so you cannot rush it *that* easily, would have been a mouthful).

Balancing those tow uses cost wise put Kagugo at an awkward - though fair - spot I guess. Wait and see in testing.

I like that Synth DNA Modification isn't unique an only one influence. Chances are people will make you hate that card in IG. Digging the potential in HB myself.

>>51802727
>Digging the potential in HB myself.
Yeah, HB have quite a lot of AP stuff, could be pretty nasty - especially with a lot of it being stuff that does brain

I have a hard time with Mad Dash.

On the one hand, I should love it. It's a card that rewards the expose/data gathering tools while raising the stakes of running blind (IAA Juneebug doing 5 damage? not bad). Which is cool. We want more things that do that.

On the other, and I just can't say why, I can't look at the card without thinking something is off about it.

>>51805112
In that regard it's no different than "Freedom Through Equality", if anything, it's even harder to pull off.
Do you feel there is something odd about "Freedom Through Equality"?

>>51805957

Interesting, I wouldn't really thought of them as strict equivalences...

Let's have a go at it looking at the differences I guess:

Freedom Through Equality stays on board. It's transient, but it's not burnt upon use. It opens a window and a board state all in itself. It's also front-loaded, you pays those three credits instead of having some heightened possible risk. Last, can also use it to get rid of the corp's current.

I'd say I even prefer Mad Rush to FTE from a base deign standpoint. I do like how it opens a niche of Ambush and Expose play.

I guess the problem is the downside. That damage should have been unpreventable, or a bit higher. As it is, it feels so insignificant.

Anyone else seeing Network Exchange as a possible in-faction tool to extent Kit's early game aggression?

>>51802727

Both are certainly murderous for crims though. Looks like they need to burn 2 inf for film critic AND feedback filter just to survive on Mars.

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>>51806735
Definitely. In a similar way Unschedule Maintenance also works in Kit's favour. Both restrict the overload of ICE stacking. I was always hesitant to include this current though, since Kit is so restricted by it.
I can't say I see much shaper in taxing the corp for stacking ICE (I mean, that's Diwan, right?) but I see it in Kit perfectly.

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>>51807492
About that, anybody thinking of increasing his hand size to deal with Jinteki in Mars?

>>51807719

Definitely going to bring and upgrade my old jank full cybernetics + Heartbeat deck. Add Persephone and Link support, and I'm just going to let as many Sentry subroutines as I can fire. Then prevent and withstand as see fit.
Going to be gloriously ridiculous.

>>51807492

Kakugo being derezzed means it doesn't trigger though. That's one way for Crims to deal with it. Definitely a worthy Saker target, is it not? Especially when you weight in the upcoming support. But then, yeah, might have to deal with the DNA Synth(s) first. At least it creates interesting board states.

>>51807626

Yeah, that's Diwan on steroids (though limited to ICE).
I'm also seeing it as a potential False Echo enabler early game.

>>51808153

That is true regarding Saker, although one would hope they aren't getting stacked in such a situation.

Would be terrible news if there is a sentry/code gate version that ice as well.

>>51807719

It would be a terrible pain in the arse if you have to deal with komainus without parasites with that huge hand size though.

>>51808249
>one would hope they aren't getting stacked in such a situation.

Stop wishing for Khan to not be useful!

>>51808557

Let them all fire ALL of them! Burn that R&D to the ground!

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>>51808846
The real mill house

>>51808846

It's a problem for all crims really.

>>51809157

>Fire Everything!

Oh my, that actually does looks like a legit plan, especially with IHWs to make sure things doesn't actually end badly.

>>51810089
>It's a problem for all crims really.

I meant, for once, if two are stacked, Khan has slight advantage with Saker given her ID ability... rare enough as it is.

>Oh my, that actually does looks like a legit plan

It's unlikely to become "Tier1" (and then you never now, look at how the silly Bazaar/SpyCam builds turned out) to use a ugly term, but I'm convinced that's a build that could actually do decently well.

>>51802470
If they didn't have the money to set up though, the alternative econ cards wouldn't be as playable, meaning they'd have to pick and choose what to play. Wonder how willing FFG would be to put a mandatory +1 cost to all red cards, and how it would change their econ.

>>51811125
>Wonder how willing FFG would be to put a mandatory +1 cost to all red cards

*All* seems harsh... that being said, for a start, if we look at derezz costs as being fair (and at the very least I don't think they are unfair), then ICE destruction looks way under-costed in comparison, doesn't it?

>If they didn't have the money to set up though, the alternative econ cards wouldn't be as playable

Could the Anarch econ problem be adjusted only by removing the imported out-of-faction econ cards?
Again, I'm not convinced. One thing it could help with is maybe give back Crims the upper hand it's supposed to have in the early game. I'll give you that.

>>51812411

RAMBLE ALERT

Would the faction econ even be played? I mean, Liberated Account had been mostly relegated to the folders before Career Fair (and now Temujin) as support, Queen's Gambit was (wrongly) considered the same for the longest time, no one will touch Hard at Work even with Adjusted Chronotype in the pool, Cyberfeeder has generally been deemed too slow from first year onward, Human First is pretty decent actually, but competitive players won't deal with the uncertainty, Ixodidae is probably too specialized for its own good, Power to the People is good in the right build I find, but out of a 20+ pool of people I'm the only person I've seen even play it (and quick search confirms it's not jumping at you from published lists online), the Bad Publicity stuff was so much left on the way side *no one* even cared about Blackmail before Valencia...

What do Anarchs have that people *will* play really? Scheherazade, Stimhack, Day Job (and now that they've learned to play with it, Queen's Gambit I guess)? Maybe Inject if you want to count it as econ. The cards whose constraint they can basically ignore. Then we're back to square one of the Anarch issue, with it being the high variance faction and the more general issue of the competitive meta being strongly adverse to high variance and constraints in general. As with DLR, they will (and have) only play(ed) those cards if they can make the downside ignorable.

RAMBLE OFF

Sorry about that. Time for sleep I guess.

I just realize that Alice Merchant, Obokata and meteor mining all come in the 4th pack.

>>51815330
Forgot to mention, I'm really hype for this pack.

>>51810165

It could potentially be one, or at least be very inconvenient, for the corp if it is using a lot of non-etr/trashing sentries.

>>51815330

It's kinda ironic/sad that she can do way more damage to the HQ over time then crims can ever do.

>>51816669
Crims aren't supposed to do damage to HQ. I don't know where that's coming from.

>>51816833

Quite simply, Crims are the HQ faction. The jump to damaging HQ isn't so big to make.

Conversely, why have trashing effects so massively (not to say exclusively) been Anarch?
Certainly it's their part of the pie, but some mechanics that are supposed to be Crims have been more liberally distributed around - see anti-econ.

>>51815351

I'm really liking some of the things put in place here - many cards make me want to play and build. But it's a very slow start at least too slow for some, who wanted a *strong* start for Mars. Both thematically and from a gameplay standpoint. I've heard people say that if it ends up indicative of the cycle as a whole, they won't bother with it.

Seen a similar comment on the French forums too (for them, I'm starting to wonder how not getting TD is going to impact the community - a lot of casuals seemed to be looking forward to it... not going to help keeping the scene vigorous).

I don't really see where they're coming from... probably fatigue accumulated from previous cycles?

Something funny about using Will'o the Wisp on a conspiracy breaker.

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Hmm, someone on Jinteki mentioned this, now I'm wondering:
SYNC BRE has a sub "Trace 2, if successful access 1 fewer card whenever he or she accesses cards"

Ignoring the poor wording for the moment, if it's on a server with Ash, and Ash fires successfully (maybe you're running Rutherford Grid), does that mean you access nothing?

>>51817901

I would go with no access: the runner cannot access cards other than Ash, and accesses one less card, meaning none.

Nice one.

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>>51817376
Not exactly.

>Quite simply, Crims are the HQ faction. The jump to damaging HQ isn't so big to make.
Anarchs are the disruption faction. They don't have a particular attachment to any server, it just happen that if Criminals aim for HQ and Shaper for R&D, people jump to the conclussion that anarchs are the Archives faction. But looking at their cards you notice that they target every server, they put pressure everywhere.

>Conversely, why have trashing effects so massively (not to say exclusively) been Anarch?
They are the disruption faction, so it's reasonable that they have most of the tools for direct disruption. I would understand Criminals having more tools that allowed them to destroy ICE, but I can't thematically see a Shaper doing it. They got interesting "return to HQ" effects like Ankusa and False Echo. I can see something that puts a piece of ICE at the bottom of R&D too.

>see anti-econ.
Criminals are not really anti-econ, not in the same way anarchs are. They are not out there to make the Corps poor (if anything, they want them rich enough to safely Siphon them). Their "anti-econ" cards are mostly adding additional costs during a run as a way to subtly suggest to the Corp "Maybe you don't actually want to rez this right now, right?" and ways to punish him for doing it (derezzing as "You shouldn't have rezzed that, you see, I asked nicely, and now I'm forced to do this").
Anarchs are more brute force about this. When they don't want the Corp to rez ICE, they blow up their bank accounts with a giant Vamp. Xanadu affects every ICE. Rook affects a whole server. Reina Roja, Lamprea, and System Shutdown are small drips of 1c that happens turn after turn.
My question is, Why is Ixodidae anarch and not Criminal? Look at Gorman Drip.

>>51817901
Yes, you'd access nothing.

>>51818073
>Anarchs are the disruption faction
>looking at their cards you notice that they target every server, they put pressure everywhere.

I agree, but then isn't this mostly as a byproduct of them being the Archives faction in the first place?
That's the thing isn't it? It only matters being the Archives faction if you can put things (agendas) into Archives. That's what the disruption and mobility has been all about.

>Criminals are not really anti-econ, not in the same way anarchs are. They are not out there to make the Corps poor

Account Siphon, Forged Activation Order, Bribery, Running Interference, Cortez Chip and Hernando Cortez himself, all the derezzing effects, Drive by PolOp.

Plenty of anti-econ in Crims from core to the most recent released data pack. There's certainly a difference in the way each faction plays it: crims aim at being richer than the corp to capitalize on its own economical advantage, Anarchs aim at making the corp dirt poor.

>I would understand Criminals having more tools that allowed them to destroy ICE

Doesn't have to be ICE. Political Operative strikes me as a perfectly Crim trashing card.

>>51818073
>Why is Ixodidae anarch and not Criminal? Look at Gorman Drip.

My take: because they wanted Lamprey as Anarch support and putting the two cards over two different factions (especially if you're unwilling to put any of them at one influence... and if you do that for one you'll have to do the other) would have meant even less chance for Ixodidae being played...

I'm a bit surprised no one's commented on the fun to be had by combining The Maw with Hacktivist Meeting, in particular with the level of Asset Spam currently running around.

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>>51823491
Ugh.

Man, really kind of sucks for corps that want assets without really spamming them

>>51823543

If you don't want to spam assets, you're far less opened to the pressure of Mawktivist Meeting. Tough yeah, still a bit of disruption in that you might have to extend some ICE over it.

Seriously tough, is the lack of enthusiasm widespread? Are we in a minority looking at Daedalus and thinking "fuck, I want to play that"?

Also, I know it's a petty complaint, but anyone else disappointed Daedalus has no cards working with Labyrinthine Server?
Talk about missed opportunity.

>>51823491
The Maw?

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>>51824271

>>51823940
I'm not particularly hype for Daedalus, in fact I look forward the 4th pack, but I'm not all that much interested in the previous packs.
Anarchs are getting a bunch of cards that takes them back to the high risk high reward plays, but I gather most of the tournament meta is going to be stuck playing the same shit they've been playing for the last... 8 months? Maybe more?
Which reminds me, I haven't been able to play "Turtle" yet. Only Silhouette, Khan and Null.

We haven't seen much of Shapers this cycle, but we know Criminals are going Los route with rez/derez effects. This also benefits Khan's plays, so it's going to be a good cycle for both new IDs, but I don't get the feeling that all that support is new and fresh.

On account of Corps, Weyland and Jinteki cards are interesting, and I'm curious about what is going to happen with the other 2 IDs (if any), but I was more hype for adn42 and it was pushed back (well, not really, there never was a release date, but it made sense for it to be released before mars).

>>51818911
>Account Siphon, Forged Activation Order, Bribery, Running Interference, Cortez Chip and Hernando Cortez himself, all the derezzing effects, Drive by PolOp.
Not the other guy, but all of these are ways to get in a server without dealing with the ice, which is what Criminals do. It's different (and arguably weaker) to the Anarch method since they aren't aimed at directly disrupting the corp.

>>51823940
Likely because either there aren't any high impact cards in the first pack (Flashpoint got Hard Hitting News) or the promoted playstyles aren't catching interest. Will definitely be trying Jemison atleast once myself.

>>51824489
>Not the other guy, but all of these are ways to get in a server without dealing with the ice, which is what Criminals do.

Not necessarily. You can use those the same way the corp can use traces: to force the other side into an expenditure it might not otherwise want. They're a tool for econ control. FAO can destroy ICE, but it can also force the corp into (at least on an immediate level) fruitless spending.

If anything, I'm thinking the Anarch way of econ play, of disruption has a lot more success in the competitive crowd because it's not codependent on econ elasticity the way Crims' happen to be. Anarch tend to go for those immediate binary solutions - there's reason headlock has mostly been tied to Anarch as a faction. Reverse of the same coin as to why the Anarchs positive econ cards aren't that played.

>>51824489
>the promoted playstyles aren't catching interest

Well I'm sad. Jemison looks cool as fuck as far as I'm concerned.

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>>51824678
Jamison does look amazing, but I think people also want other cards to help it, like pic related.

That said, I think it's going to be pretty mega

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I like this card in Silhouette. It's very hard to use though, since you can't use it to recover, only to win more.
Btw, can the credits in Net Mercur be used to play events?

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>>51825097
>can the credits in Net Mercur be used to play events?

I do hope events are covered by "anything".

>It's very hard to use though, since you can't use it to recover, only to win more.

Another way to look at it:
- The base threat threshold of some crim deck is higher than the one of most other decks - so called high liquidity play. Seen that way, it's not so much a win-more card as much as a card that allows you to stay in the credit range you need to be in to remain operational.
- It can also be pretty decent as way to kickstart your econ. Since we were talking of FAO, a specialty of our resident Silhouette player, she will, say FAO on R&D under threat of Keyhole. and if you rez, she'll High-Stakes Job HQ which she knows you now can't rez. That being said, she's an incredible pilot, she makes it look easy, and then you try to play her deck and you get ravaged by any and all players she's beaten the same day.

>>51824659
>to force the other side into an expenditure it might not otherwise want
True. Which then lets you redirect your attention to this other server that the corp can't rez their ice on. I wouldn't call Criminal cards anti-econ because the corp still gets something from it (other than Siphon, though the two tags might count). Cortez, Interference, FAO, and others make you spend extra resources, sure, but said resources will still be of use later, either deterring runs or stopping a runner during a run. It matters less to Criminals as long as they can get in right now.

Compare to Anarch which is a flat "NO" and cancels all your effort and resources immediately and forever. It's why Anarch is the headlock faction, and why Criminal tricks work less effectively on rich corps.

>>51825778
>I wouldn't call Criminal cards anti-econ because the corp still gets something from it

How would you call effects whose aim is to force the corp into expenditure of cash? Anti-liquidity, to be more specific?

>Compare to Anarch which is a flat "NO" and cancels all your effort and resources immediately and forever. It's why Anarch is the headlock faction, and why Criminal tricks work less effectively on rich corps.

We're saying the same thing really: as I was saying Anarch tends to be is binary, crims plays along a continuum with elasticity on both sides, hence why Anarch is preferred. People go all in on the strat or not at all.

>>51826175
Thing is the expenditure is a side effect, the main purpose is to get in a server, so I'm not sure. If taxing is done by an organization to the people, what would be a synonym to it that means the reverse?

>>51828294
>Thing is the expenditure is a side effect, the main purpose is to get in a server

See, I think that's where I don't agree with you. I think it's both effects that matter (a card like Running Interference only really makes sense to me as a way to do both). Thing is the corp often has the choice. and too many players operate around the principle that the other player having a choice is inherently a bad thing. They want the definite certain effect, and not having to juggle between two (or more) possible different board states (if using, say Cortez Chip they'll see putting one ICE under headlock and being able to run the server unobstructed for a full turn as the "right" move, and generally will look at the 2 credit tax as an option not even worth considering).

>If taxing is done by an organization to the people

I don't think that's it's the right framing, given taxing is something that only one kind of organization can specifically do: a state, or functional equivalent (time to bring out Government Takeover - is there actually a corp in the Android universe that functions somewhere like a government equivalent? Not that I remember... wouldn't be useful to a corp really; states can't exactly abuse externalities the way a corp will).
I can't think of, and I'm not sure you'll find a "reverse" to taxing in that specific sense. States defines themselves as more powerful than any sub-entity that compose them. Conversely, states give to and are not taken from by their constituents. At least not in official language. Gotta keep those symbolic power lines in check.

You steal or fraud at best, in that relationship of constituent to state, don't you?

In a more general sense, draining? Exhausting? Or just keep the symmetry of taxing in the more general sense...

>>51829582
I'm not saying that only one side of the coin matters, just that attempting to get into a server unopposed is the primary function, even if you can't use it for that due to the corp being way too rich. If the corp can still rez ice that is being hit by both Cortez cards, then just taxing the corp for rezzing it is completely fine. Perhaps that extra tax will let you hit elsewhere.

No argument for everything else, choice based plays should really be a lot stronger if they want players to move away from "deterministic" ones.

Draining seems right I guess? Isn't there a word for unnecessary expenditure due to dead weight assets or something?

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>>51832772
EMP Device is a cool, albeit weird, card - I like the idea of it as a less bullshit Blackmail (combos well with pic related, and Adam and Nexus to a lesser extent. And sneaking in via a smuggled EMP device is straight out of a heist movie)

cont (because I want to use another pic)

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>>51833233
The subtype is pretty interesting - I mean, we have a weapon already, but EMP Device is clearly an exercise in terrorism that's more disruptive than physically harmful - it even works very, very similarly to pic related mechanically, as well as thematically (also this art is likewise great)

Makes me wonder if we'll see a bomb (perhaps a hardware that can be trashed, possibly with the stipulation of "only during a run") that's also a weapon (trashes an installed card? - certainly something with a clear effect in the physical world) and if we did, would it be a criminal card or an anarch one?

>>51833250

It's only 'disruptive' assuming no one (important) was in those hoppers that fell from the sky into those buildings.

Would have been a wonderful thematic pairing with Traffic Accident.

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>>51833310
If you're using it in a hopper you'll probably be enjoying an uncontrolled descent yourself, but an EMP device is clearly aimed at security rather than infrastructure - look at Drive By for a good comparison (another card that makes me think an anti-materiel bomb should be crim)

Traffic Accident has the best pairing with Broken News (and pic related), but I kind of wish there was a more Weyland-y way to use it

Also I kind of wish there was another weapon or something... and maybe with flavour text that reference's the "technical boy" lines from Johnny Mnemonic - I can see a runner saying that, maybe Gabe?

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>be me, running Argus
>runner plays Aaron Marron
>It's okay, I planned for this
>contract killer
>kill aaron
>kill aaron
>kill TB because the runner is using a weird-ass deck
>they install 3rd Arron
>then reccur the other 2, Temujin and Siphon via trope

FML

>>51833700

You should try investing in a Corp Town. Burn down all the runner resources!

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>>51834468
Yeah, that would have helped - he had a janky deck with a big expensive set up that completely locked me down when it was done

GIP Net Tap + Blackguard + Burd breakers (and Silhouette and Siphon) meant I was forever between 0 and about 5 credits - he used some fast drawing (Tem -> TB -> Game Day) to get it all up when he had the money and it was just cancer once set up

And then he was kind of a dick and kept banking Turning Wheel counters even after he had enough to access all R&D... (and honestly could have won a lot before that point as well)

>>51834615
Sounds like the kind of deck that would die hard if it weren't because Aaron.

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>>51834912
Quite probably - I was able to get to 4, but he kept me on lockdown after that, and then it was just horrible.

Oh, and he had NACH and Interdiction.
And Salsette slums.

Just keeping me poor, keeping me unable to do jack shit

>>51834936
That's weird, NACH and Aaron are a nonbo.

>>51834912
>Sounds like the kind of deck that would die hard if it weren't because Aaron.

Do we have to take this as a good or bad thing then?

>>51834615

As someone that has experimented a lot with Blackguard over time, it's funny because the time has probably never been better for it given all the derez support, strong runner econ (between Peace in Our Time and Temujin, getting an early console out is much more manageable) and ways to fasten the deck, but I'm just so unwilling to play it right now given I've just shelved a deck using it.

People mocking the card tend to forget Blackguard will be extremely oppressive when you actually get it out.

>>51835415
I don't know anybody that mockes the card, but it is difficult to play it, and I don't just mean the install costs. It needs a consistent derez tool and probably some expose besides Sil, but emergency shutdown with crescentus were lackluster in that regard. And those are a lot of card slots too.
Raptors might be what Blackguard needs, but it also needs the econ and clicks for the raptors.

>>51835857

Don't discount Emergency Shutdown with SOT/Feint support. And now Exploit.

>>51835857
>Raptors might be what Blackguard needs, but it also needs the econ and clicks for the raptors.

London Library/Autoscripter.

>>51836080
>London Library
Damn right. I propose the name for the combo: 'freebird'

>>51837585

I'll take it. Just for the joy of shouting "FREEBIRD" after every derez.

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Neat idea.

Is Terminal Directive supposed to be coming this month?

Criminals finally getting a good Decoder, nice.
A lot of the cards seem expensive, I wonder how that will work out.

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Dear lord, the overload... it's real!

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/2/21/why-do-you-run/

Do we have to consider Ayla as Shaper's Andromeda or something?

And more derez options.

Spear Fishing... wonder if it should have had a "on a server with 2 or more pieces of ICE" condition... has it stands, you can now have 6 Inside job in your deck. Rush is going to cry.

Abagnale I like. The added effect is pretty neat.

Charlatan looks... interesting?

Deep Data Mining I'd slot in Kit.

That being said for TD + core only, that introduces interesting dynamics.

Definitely pre-ordering. I'm sold.

Weird though how Shaper seem to be about better quality of draw there, a thing that was mostly crim up till now.

>>51839351
Shaper Andy
Shandy

Not as OP but still looks interesting

Loving the look of the new toys

>>51839351
I think I heard early April

>>51839351
>>51840527

I was thinking, with the raise in stack trashing effects, it's interesting to be able to put cards out of the reach of the corp until you want/need them.

Still don't know what to think of Careful Planning. I'm glad it's 4 influence at least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale

So is this going to be a security consultant breaker set, a crook breaker set, or a crook turned security consultants breaker set?

>>51841645

Would Schneier be a Killer, or a Fracter?

>>51839830
I was going to go with Shaper since Cambridge's ability seems pretty difficult to play with, but these new Criminals toys seem oof. Love all the bypass stuff.

>>51839471
Abagnale seems like a good alternative for if you don't really care for the derez effect on the birds, especially if you don't like the 3 to pump. That said, wonder where the naming is coming from.

>>51841645
I could see a Ponzi (or Madoff), maybe a Demara