Pathfinder General pfg GM's corner edition ITT: talk

>>51614287
Also to add onto what I said earlier, I do like and use Psionics. There's just some things from Psionics that I dislike as well, in particular the Psychic Armory and anything to do with the Aegis class. But go ahead, just because I don't like DSP's recent releases keep calling me a Paizofag.

>>51614329
How did you manage to fuck up linking to the old thread?
>>51606064

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>MOTHERFUCKING LORD ZETA
Now these threads are going places.

>>51606064
>>51614329

Real old thread

>>51614379
Yo know how hard it is to make a generalon yourphone?

>>51614370
>Psychic Armory
This I understand. I still don't understand how the HELL that thing saw print as is.
> Aegis
Could you elaborate on this one? Because I have a love-hate relationship with this class too and would like to hear other opinions on it.

>>51614329
Currently i'm just dealing with all of my player's characters being gone

I'm just having them all rebuild at WBL, and reroll if they want.

>>51614415
Fair enough.

>>51614329
>tips and trick of the GM trade

Vaguely plan the entire campaign in advance. Specifically plan individual sessions two sessions in advance. Learn how your players think and and use that knowledge to railroad them without letting them realize they're being railroaded.

>>51614433
>simulacrum clone armies

classic

>>51614422
Yeah, that's what one of my GM's is doing to. Free re-spec and re-gearing for all. That being said a lot of people just lost some damage calcs/references because we didn't actually level up since July.

>>51614433
>Column 1 Row 3
That's new.

>>51614417
IT HAS FULL PLATE AT LEVEL 1, IT'S BROKEN!

>>51614380
>>51614403
So being a martial with interesting out-of-combat applications and more value to the party than "the guy who hits things" requires specific social abilities that won't be able to fit into every campaign?

>>51614417
I liked it initially, but it seems to be the lovechild of one of the authors. Every book it feels like it keeps getting new options when it had enough already at publication. The fact it can access every subsystem by DSP and will probably only gain more seems to just make it stronger with every book. That class is to DSP as full casters are to Paizo.

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>>51614368
Vigilante is unironically two steps in the right direction, it just needs more actually good choices for its Social Talents, as well as archetypes that trade the shitty Unshakeable bonus and mediocre Appearance Abilities for something that people who don't want to be batman can use.

>>51614484
>specific social abilities that won't be able to fit into every campaign
>its a "but dual identity doesn't fit MY campaign" episode
>pretending that Dual Identity is somehow the only part of the Vigilante's design that matters, or that it's the part that makes it good

Anon is a huge faggot, news at 11.

>>51614484
That's not what they said, so no.

>>51614433
>simulacrum clone armies
Explain?

>>51614484
Vigilante as is with legendary vigilantes can be made to fit any campaign with the various social talents. I never said it was perfect but it is a step in the right direction.

>>51614509
Aegis can be lots of things- but you're severely overestimating how thin it can afford to spread itself.
It can't be all those things /at the same time/.
Even with daily reconfigurations, its feats and item purchases are locked, and it will generally find itself gravitating towards one role.
It shoots itself in the foot by trying to do too much.

>>51614527
Legendary vigilantes and legendary villains vigilante are just about everything you'll need.

>>51614527
I never mentioned Dual Identity.

>>51614484
I wouldn't say so. But even ignoring that they do sort of require weird meta abilities that are hard to explain. Like the whole secret base thing. I can handle(and enjoy) the fact that martials break IRL physics shrugging of blows and preforming feats that make the greatest of athletes look like sickly children. But some of the social talents do rub me the wrong way. But I can see what anon means.
>>51614527
>retending that Dual Identity is somehow the only part of the Vigilante's design that matters,
No, but it's a pretty big part of what the Vigilante is(hell it's the classes primary identity) and when one of the most popular products for "fixing" a class involves wiping that identity out, I feel like something is wrong.

>>51614534
Go read the spell "simulacrum"

At 13th level a wizard just fucks off for a month then comes back with 20 fully capable and obedient half-level copies of himself. This is the most conservative ruling of the spell possible.

>>51614467
Please don't straw-man arguments like that.
>>51614541
> can be made to fit any campaign with the various social talents
Examples that aren't dependent on Dual Identity.

>>51614578
>>51614575
The point of vigilante being a step in the right direction is not their dual identity. I couldn't care less about dual identity. Social Talents as a concept are a huge step in the right direction for martials. Other martial classes should have features under a similar vein. UC Rogues sort of have the proto version with skill unlocks, but that is not uniquely theirs most of the time.

Social talents and versions of social talents are good design for martials, even if vigilante's execution of them still leaves something to be desired. Anyone who thinks otherwise can suck a big bag of cocks.

Does anyone have a screencap of the Fey Obedience feat from the First World book? It doesn't seem to be on d20pfsrd yet

>>51614616
Okay, I definitely see where you're coming from with that.

>>51614578
Some social talents don't fit every game. No anon is arguing that every social talent fits every game. Social talents as a concept in design is good for martials.

It's one of the few things I praise DHB's design for because it did a similar thing for Fighters/Cavaliers/Gunslingers. It gave them good skill based things and unique abilities and tricks they could do with skills, along with other unique features not reliant on skills. DHB even said he took vigilante social talents as the conceptually base for why he thought it should be that way.

>>51614598
>Examples that aren't dependent on Dual Identity.
Just running down the list?

Aristocrat's acumen for better sale values, Celebrity Discount if the campaign takes place in or around a particular city, Companion to the lonely for charisma based bonuses, Discreet Inquiries for research purposes, Double Time with Social Grace for crafting shenanigans, Everyman is useful in a hilarious number of situations, Feign Ignorance for when you're committing crimes, Gossip Collector if you find yourself gathering information constantly

I could go on.

>>51614329
The fuck's this, like...

Evil UBOS?

>>51614555
Obviously, but that's specific 3pp. It may be fucking AMAZING 3pp, but unfortunately for many players they have groups that won't let them have content from Legendary Games, no matter how good Jolly is at his job.

RIP the hopes and dreams of that one anon who wanted to play a Warlock Vigilante.

>>51614575
>>51614578
Dual identity thing was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, on account of someone actually arguing against Vigilante being allowed in ANY campaign that wasn't specifically a "social espionage intrigue game".

The reason that the most popular fix involves wiping out the "primary class identity" is because the "primary class identity" is retarded. Vigilante as a concept for a class is legitimately retarded. SOMEHOW, despite this, paizo has managed to fall so far down their dried up well of shit designs that they popped right back out the other end and came out with an amazing chassis for a martial. Not to say there isn't room for improvement, but there's now precedent for martials to have cool shit.

>>51614549
The potential issue, I think, is that Aegis CAN do pretty much any of it. Not only that, but swap between it all. Multiple times per day even.

>>51614727
That's a badass freaking overlord

>>51614598
>Examples that aren't dependent on Dual Identity.
Any Guise, Case the Joint, Companion to the Lonely, Discreet Inquiry, Double Time, Entrepreneur, Every Man, Feign Innocence, Gossip Collector, Innuendo, In Vogue, Intrigue Feat, Loyal Aid, Many Guises, Mocking Bird, Obscurity, Subjective Truth, Social Grace.

>>51614616
My point with >>51614575 is that it's not dual identity that requires a specific campaign framework to work (it does, but that's not relevant) but that social skills in general require a particular framework for a campaign. Not all campaigns involve the sort of social elements that the Social Talents cater to, and THAT was my point.

I agree it's a step in the right direction, but there need to be other options for out-of-combat utility that are not social in nature.

>>51614736
>Not to say there isn't room for improvement, but there's now precedent for martials to have cool shit.

Basically this. Vigilante is a step in the right direction, but it's a step that was taken with your eyes closed in a dark room. It happened incidentally without consideration for the context, and the other options in that "room" still need to be present.

>>51614736
>Vigilante as a concept for a class is legitimately retarded. SOMEHOW, despite this, paizo has managed to fall so far down their dried up well of shit designs that they popped right back out the other end and came out with an amazing chassis for a martial
Vigilante is why I think Paizo honestly subscribes to their own version of storm-wind in that they think it's okay to gate good abilities/design behind "RP restrictions".

>>51614789
>Not all campaigns involve the sort of social elements that the Social Talents cater to, and THAT was my point.
Yes, if you have a pure dungeon crawl/wilderness exploration game then vigilante talents have a hard time because it assumes you'll be in and around settlements, or talking to people at some point.

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>>51614392
You fucking know it.

>>51614591
Sometimes I think about wizards in Pathfinder
Just because you can... should you?

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>>51614329
Gm tips and tricks: have plug and play encounters.

Sometimes "suddenly ninjas" works. Especially if you feel the session is getting dull.

Keep it in your pants unless everyone has written down that they're okay with it.

Don't forget to write down npc names if you name them.

>>51614591
Incorrect, there is a more conservative reading.

Let's look at the wording:
>It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD).

Spellcasting and class features are not special abilities of the creature, but of class levels the creature has. If you copy a humanoid with class levels you're not getting their class features and the like. Instead copy a monster, that'll get you their abilities.

>>51614591
Simulacrum is on the short list of "never should be allowed ever" spells.

Along with Blood Money, Paragon Surge, Planar Binding, and similar.

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>>51614789
>>51614813
So in summary:
>Vigilante's Chassis of Specialization+Social Talents+Vigilante talents is an amazing chassis and there are cool abilities in there that set a positive precedent
>This is bolstered by some of the archetypes, or at the very least the ideas presented in some of the archetypes (if not the execution)
>The issue comes with how few noncombat choices there are for it, and how most of the actually impactful choices require specific things or lots of handwaving from the GM
>If it is allowed EhnJolly's content can at least slap a bandaid over it, though it still doesn't solve the source of the problem
>Paizo has no idea what they're doing and probably didn't do all this good design on purpose, meaning it's unlikely the Vigilante will ever get what it needs to truly shine in a 1pp book

That right?

>>51614962
Aha! but you fell for the TRAP!

Now I can use simulacrum to get 10HD solars who can cast wish for me.

>>51614996
Blood money is thematic as fuck. I change it to "the ability damage is tied to your soul, heals at a rate of 1 per day, and can not be removed in any other way".

>>51615029
>>The issue comes with how few noncombat choices there are for it, and how most of the actually impactful choices require specific things or lots of handwaving from the GM
This is not really true though. What is requires is the following:
>your campaign, at some point, has you in a city/town

Really that's it. Especially with EhnJolly's stuff. Vigilante social talents are only useless when you never talk to NPCs, never have intrigue, and are a pure dungeon crawl or exploration game.

>>51615050
>Now I can use simulacrum to get 10HD solars who can cast wish for me.
Correct.

>Blood money is thematic as fuck. I change it to "the ability damage is tied to your soul, heals at a rate of 1 per day, and can not be removed in any other way".
I don't care if it is thematic. As written it's awful. Your writing still allows me to simply use an effect that doesn't allow my soul to be targeted/effected to bypass it.

>>51614931

I want to sin all over that girl!

>>51615087
Eh....I like blood mages. Also, as the DM, I don't let you get away from that str damage. Polymorph? magic jar? clone?

Nope. It stays.

>>51614818
Personally, I love themes of exploring the wilderness and dark dungeons and exotic locales. But even if you'll be in and around settlements (and for that kind of game, you should, although it doesn't need to be the same settlement) and talk with people, that doesn't mean that obstacles to be overcome need to be hosted in the settlements. Not every conversation with an NPC needs a skill check, not every attempt to get information needs a disguise and stealth check to stake out your target's house.

There's a difference between a campaign that contains a settlement and one that uses a settlement, is what I'm saying. Most campaigns should contain a settlement(s), but many can get away with not USING a settlement while still allowing the PCs to interact with non-hostile NPCs and do things.

>>51615123
No literally you can just have the effect unable to target your soul to do the damage to tie it to your soul.

>>51615130
Yes, and all vigilante requires is you interact with NPCs. They have enough social talents that interacting with NPCs is all you need to have enough relevant ones over most of your career. Give me any campaign concept and I'll give you a list of useful social talents for it.

>>51615087
>>51615172
Wouldn't the DM then just rule "alright, you're immune to the negatives, but because you can't inflict yourself you don't get the benefits either"

>>51615211
Then if you are forced to use your own strength score, and it heals at a rate of 1 per day, and you can't avoid the damage, I would still ban it.

Because of spells like visualization of the body/mind.

>>51615231
>Because of spells like visualization of the body/mind.
spending a first and second level spell and taking a point of str damage isn't that good for what those effects give you.

>>51615272
>+5 to all of X ability scores skill isn't worth 2 low level slots and a point of strength damage

Yes it is, what are you on about? On any day I don't expect combat I'm going to do that. Heck I have 10 strength, I'll do it twice.

Besides why do you assume I'm gonna be spending slots on blood money. I have a wand of blood money I crafted for 375gp. Each casting costs 7.5gp vs the 200gp normally. I am paying less than 1/25th of the normal price.

>>51615231
The easy fix for that is to say material components are used up at the end of a spell's casting, not the start. There, now Blood Money doesn't work on any spell with a casting time longer than 1 round.

Hell, IIRC that was even a Paizo dev's stated opinion on how spell casting and Blood Money work somewhere on the forums.

It's fine though, you run your games the way you like. Ban Blood Money if you'd like, but don't expect that everybody will agree that it or any other spell needs to be banned in all games forever.

>>51615317
>i save 175gp when I cast this self buff
No one cares. If you think that is banable then I have no idea how you let anyone get fourth level spells.

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LG has archons
LE has devils

what is the iconic LN outsider subtype?

>>51615415
Inevitables

>>51615415
Inevitables

>>51615384
192.5gp, not 175gp.

I don't know how you think trading a spell slot and 1 str damage for +5 to that many skills is acceptable.

>>51615489
It seems that you have a problem with the visualization spell, and not with my modified blood money.

>>51615496
Visualization is fine as long as you can't discount it.

Same with any number of similar spells with expensive material components. Stoneskin is another example.

In extreme examples resurrection for anyone with more than 10 str. 10 days of downtime is easily worth not spending 5k of a diamond.

>>51615459
>>51615463
Thank you, I see what my error was, now.

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When was the last time you amicably contacted evil outsiderrs?

>>51615536
Never. My policy on outsiders is the same as fae.

Kill em all for butting into the affairs of mortals.

>>51615519
>less than 200 gp
>expensive
>at least level 4
wut

>>51615563
How much of that incense are you gonna buy, anon?

>>51615536
What if you could just talk to the demons?

Have you recovered from the Great Delet of 2017?

>>51615563
>level 5
>6k gp total
>each time I cast the spell is 3.5% of my total wealth
>as opposed to .125% if blood money is on the table
If I want to cast the spell 5 times that's a cloak of resistance.

>>51615557
Does that policy still apply if you're doing stuff on their plane instead of the other way around?

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>>51615591
They can be surprisingly insightful.

>>51615536
Earlier this week.

>>51615611
I refrain from visiting other planes if I can help it. When I do, it's usually hostile territory anyway. So I guess, yeah?

>>51615536
Well, let's see.

I made this post... zero seconds ago. So then.

>>51615610
>guys you can get a bonus to a skill check , but it's balanced because it costs almost nothing!
>no its expensive if you are like level 5.
First: That isn't how WBL works, and second: no amount of evidence or argument will ever change your mind so I won't bother with this anymore.

When was the last time you were wrong about something?

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>>51615599
Working on it, it's not going to be so bad given I only really had one character in-use. I realize now that mythweavers fucked my CMD because it didn't add my dodge bonus(es). Also that I'm going to have a fuckload of touch AC later on, damn. Will I even need to have 24 touch AC at level 4? is that overkill?

>>51615738
>First: That isn't how WBL works, and second: no amount of evidence or argument will ever change your mind so I won't bother with this anymore.
That's not how WBL works for consumables. It is however how it works for spells with expensive material components.

>>51615536
I made a bargain with a contract devil, using my soul as collateral I promised to seal an ancient (chaotic) evil in exchange for another man's soul.

>>51615756
Expensive Material Components ARE consumables, you bellend.

>>51615738
>literally saying "I have no argument"

>>51615756
Literally autisim

2hu?

>>51615787
Bane?

>>51615779
As defined by the game they are not. Purchasing a diamond for ressurection does not, by the game's rules, does not have your WBL level fix back to normal.

Also the whole "no matter what consumables you buy your WBL will fix back to what it should be" has always been asinine to me. I have no reason not to constantly purchase as many consumables as possible as they don't technically come out of my WBL.

>>51615785
There is a point where there is just no point. When this argument descended into "spell component costs aren't consumables" is when I realized I was arguing with someone who can't accept that they were ever wrong, or someone who is really stupid.

Explaining the rules to the pigeon shitting on the board is a waste of everyone's time.

>>51615839
You're arguing that it doesn't matter using expensive material components because your WBL will normalize. By that logic why should someone not have all expensive material component spells up constantly since their WBL will normalize? Or did you not actually mean that and you have an unstated limit?

>>51615860
You actually have autism don't you?

WBL is an abstraction and a guideline to how much gear an individual PC should probably have at a given level, not some sort of hard limit on how much everything they're carrying on them can be worth.

>>51615871
Do you have an argument or do you just want to devolve into insults rather than actually try and present a point?

>>51615895
When was the last time you were wrong about something?

>>51615922

Never

>>51615886
So, it is a guideline for the wealth a PC should have. Should consumables come out of this? The game defines consumables to be alchemical creations, scrolls, potions, and wands, it also says your WBL should not be lessened for them. It does not however call out expensive material components. Should expensive material components be included in the rough wealth a PC has? If it is not then what reason does a PC have not to use them constantly? If so then blood money warps this number.

It's the same reason I don't agree with how consumables don't effect WBL. There is no opportunity cost inherent to them if they don't actually effect your value.

>>51615895
You just claimed that spell component costs aren't consumables, then when several people pointed out how COMPELLED FUCKING WRONG you were, you then decided to explain how WBL doesn't make sense.

There is no end to the distance you will move the goalposts.

>>51615922
Thread before last. Again, do you have a point or just want to insult people?

>>51615957
As defined by the game expensive material components are not called out as consumables, like foci they are counted in your WBL under the rules. The game defines consumables relatively narrowly.

>>51615943
>There is no opportunity cost inherent to them if they don't actually effect your value.
But there is an opportunity cost. That 50gp you have in that potion of enlarge is wealth that you don't have in your cloak of resistance.

Yes I know, the amount is a joke. Still.

It's why I like 1/day self-refilling potions that cost 5x the amount of a normal one.

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Which regular class is best suited for entry into the Stargazer Prestige Class?

I was thinking Cleric for three domains and stacking levels for channeling purposes so you don't actually lose anything except 8th level domain powers, but it seems like you don't get anything out of your hexes since so many of them impose a save with an Int-based DC, and the d6 HD hurts.

Would something Int-based be better, or is the lack of any significant loss coming in as a Cleric too good?

>>51615943
>It's the same reason I don't agree with how consumables don't effect WBL. There is no opportunity cost inherent to them if they don't actually effect your value.
But there is. You don't instantly replenish your wealth once you use up a consumable, and once you do you don't get to instantly spend the money. Sure, you can spend 750gp on a wand of CLW(or whatever), but that means you won't be able to buy a cloak of resistance until later.

>>51615983
Post your quote

>>51615991
>But there is an opportunity cost. That 50gp you have in that potion of enlarge is wealth that you don't have in your cloak of resistance.
Except that it is not. The game says that your WBL will catch up. So that 50gp is money you don't have right now at level 2. However at level 3 your total worth will go up to 3000gp. If you haven't used that potion yet you'll be carrying around 3050gp worth of total wealth.

Two wolves attack your level 1 character! What can you do to survive?

>>51616016
Arcanist is also really good

>>51616016
Either Witch, Oracle, or Cleric are the go toes.

>>51616047
Pretty sure consumables value only gets rolled back into your WBL after you've used them.

pssst anons

Avowed updates hit
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21683521&postcount=88

>>51616047
So you have no idea how WBL works. Got it.

Idiot.

Actually we're all wrong:

>Table: Character Wealth by Level lists the amount of treasure each PC is expected to have at a specific level. Note that this table assumes a standard fantasy game. Low-fantasy games might award only half this value, while high-fantasy games might double the value. It is assumed that some of this treasure is consumed in the course of an adventure (such as potions and scrolls), and that some of the less useful items are sold for half value so more useful gear can be purchased.

>It is assumed that some of this treasure is consumed in the course of an adventure (such as potions and scrolls)

You do not replenish the lost WBL from consumables as defined by how WBL works.

So this makes money shirking from stuff like blood money more prudent, not less.

>>51616116
Holy shit.

I you have 500 WBL, and 10 of it is consumables, then you will probably use some of those consumables.

Then you go adventuring, use some consumables, and gain X loot.

Then next level you will have 1000 WBL and 20 of it is consumables.

You value that changes is how much money you get.

>>51616099
Apparently none of us do.

From WBL >>51616116

You don't get the money back from any consumables, it's just assumed the value of the gear is consumed.

>>51616155
No it's saying that if you have 1000 WBL and 100 is consumables, and you use those consumables you still have 1000 WBL, 100 of it is just gone now with those consumables.

When someone pitches you the character idea of "Good soldier, good warrior, terribly incompetent leader" what class comes to mind.

A new player to my games wants to play as a disgraced knight or warrior class who, while he himself is a great soldier or warrior, anytime he's given others to order around they end up dying as a result of his poor leadership ability. He wants this to be a constant. Minions, soldiers, whatever placed under his direct command will inevitably die because he can't lead for shit.

It's a high fantasy game in a homebrew setting, 25 pb, and I'm willing to let in most 3pp but this kid doesn't have many books beyond the core rulebook and the advanced player's guide. Of course, I'll be providing him with pdf copies of whatever books are suggested.

Any tips or suggestion would be greatly appreciated, as I want to remain as non-bias as possible but I also want to help him make his dream character.

>>51616179
And when you LEVEL UP you're still expected to have 2000, regardless of the amount of consumables you used over the course of previous level.

>>51616179
>guys the potion i drank six levels ago is still considered a part of my character's current wealth
Get your brain checked.

>>51616066
I considered Arcanist, but having to wait the extra level to get 3rd level spells to get in seemed odd, and I wouldn't want to give up exploits for the new abilities working at CL-6

>>51616074
I suppose it makes sense that the classes whose levels stack with the Stargazer for the purposes of Stargazer class abilities would be good choices, although Oracle has some of the same problems as Arcanist about waiting an extra level and losing out on curse progression and some revelations.

I think Cleric is probably the best pick, since you lose out on almost nothing if you take The Mother as your first Sidereal Arcana, whereas the Witch loses 3 Hexes and Patron progression. The only problem with the Cleric is, as I said above, the lack of optimal gain on the new Hexes.

>>51614329
WHERE ARE MY FUCKING SHEETS

>>51616202
>>51616217
Guys I really think it is best if we just stop talking about it. Considering the type of people who come to this website, and the posts so far, you might actually be arguing with someone who has developmental issues.

>>51616251
Gone, son. Better rebuild.

>>51616252
If we stop argueing about petty bullshit then someone is going to post anime. YOU ILLITERATE FAGGOT.

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>>51616266

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>>51616266
>rebuild

>>51616282
jesus christ you are right ARCANEST IS A BALANCED CLASS YOU COCK GOBBLER!

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>>51616090
Awwww shiiiit soooooo-
>no subpact for Self Pact
Well that's a load of-
>but Spirited Swordsmanship has been adjusted to work with all Aether Pulses
>Aether Barrage possibly being looked at
>mfw

>>51616320
>no subpact for Self Pact
What would that even be?

>>51616202
Yes, and 100 of that WBL was consumables you already used. I don't think it means those consumables stop counting. I need clarification. I'll search the forum on it.

>>51616340
Id, Ego, and/or Superego would be pretty cool

>>51614329
Know what your player characters can do and have an idea on what they want to do, so you can give them little bits of spotlight time.

Also staggered horde fights are more interesting setpiece battles than solo bosses, especially if you have solidly optimized PCs.

Block out big groups of dudes in companies and squads and only roll Init for them once.

Give the players neat toys and interesting recurring NPCs to interact with. If someone's falling behind in pulling their weight, this can also be used to stealth buff.

Let the players have the first and the last word on what they do, but be sure to give them something concrete *to* do so they don't durdle.

>>51616346
No, because in that case you WON'T have 2000 as you level up.

>>51616346
read:
>>51616217
and comply.

>>51616090
>Old One pact’s attunement now scales by class level instead of max HP; for single-classed avowed, it’s effectively the same, but it’s less good for dips.
RIP my build using this plus Wilder for Sympathetic Drain and then stacking up HP like crazy.

>>51616340
Really, biggest issue with Self Pact to me is how it shoehorns you into picking Aether Channel to go unarmed, with all the boosts to Unarmed, even though it offers Aether Blade as a shape. If you want to use a sword, you'd be better off with Aether Channel anyway, because then you can mix in your unarmed strikes.

>>51616217
Why should it not be by what is said there? It calls out that an amount of the WBL is used as consumables.

Also under this why is someone not incentivized to buy and burn a huge amount of consumables?

>>51616370
Could you just fucking be nice? Being a dick to him doesn't make anything better. He probably has enough problem to deal with already.

>>51616397
BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE 100% WBL IN CONSUMABLES THEN YOU DON'T HAVE A CLOAK OF RESISTANCE YOU INCREDIBLY STUPID FUCK.

HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS?

HOW!?!?

>>51616360
Adding to this
>Let the players have the first and the last word on what they do, but be sure to give them something concrete *to* do so they don't durdle.
You don't have to make the plot obviously 'flexible' in any way and don't need to present obvious forks in the path
Players will find them anyway
As long as you leave some hooks lying around, the players will pick up on the one they're interested in, or even just make their own

So what we're coming to is this:
>at each level you have WBL, which is a rough estimate of wealth in gear (both magical and mundane) and consumables you have with you As well as holding if using downtime possible?
>your total net worth should be equal roughly to the WBL
>this means a used consumable no longer counts towards this WBL, this ranging from alchemical creations, mundane goods, magical consumables, and spell components

Under this system why should one not purchase and use large amounts of consumables each level, as it should not effect their rough net worth the following level?

>>51616434
Not 100% of WBL. However a portion of your WBL in consumables, burning through it each level, will go much farther than permanent items of equal amount.

I never called out 100% of your WBL.

Like under this as well I can effectively create wealth from no where, if we apply the system purely based on what we have called out so far.

Masterwork Transformation because it merely costs a consumable material component should create wealth that does not effect your net worth the following level. So if you use it you could theoretically need money taken away from you to equate down back to WBL.

>>51616470
Because a lot of consumables are shit.

WBL is dumb. Use adjusted ABP in the pastebin and use WBL only at character creation. Use magic loot for consumables and interesting things. Abolish magic marts.

>>51616497
>guys I can use a spell to make a item masterwork without it counting against my WBL!
Literally 0 people care. Zero.

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>>51616282
Post anime you say?

>>51616188
Fighter? Barbarian for descending into homicidal/suicidal hazes lesser men cannot survive? An Inquisitor with Villainy feats that send people to die for him?

>>51616497
>The logic governing how WBL works when I spend 100% of it on consumables doesn't apply when I spend 50% of it on consumables.
You must have some disorder or something. I'm not even using all caps or being funny this time.

It isn't funny anymore at all. I feel like an ass now.

>>51616497
>Not 100% of WBL. However a portion of your WBL in consumables, burning through it each level, will go much farther than permanent items of equal amount.
And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Especially since, if given no incentive to use them, people will just tend to ignore or hoard consumables.

>Masterwork Transformation because it merely costs a consumable material component should create wealth that does not effect your net worth the following level. So if you use it you could theoretically need money taken away from you to equate down back to WBL.
...no? The material component counts towards your WBL until you use it. However, when you use it, the masterwork item now counts towards WBL, and thus your wealth for the purposes of WBL has not changed.

>>51616470
That was actually something you could do, but got mindcaulked into never doing in vanilla 3.5. Flask throwing Rogues loved that shit, since they got reimbursement on their "weapons".

>>51616517
I actually abolished magic marts, used this instead:
>magic item creation is open up to everyone, and does not require a CL
>magic item creation is a 2 feat chain, first skill focus in a particular craft skill, then "magical artisan" in that craft skill
>magic item creation DCs are changed to often be a good deal higher than previous
>one can only make magical items that can be made with that craft skill. If you chose Craft Arms, you can't craft magical armor with it. If you chose craft clothing you can't craft elixir with it, etc.
>this breaks up Craft Wondrous as being too broad, and also makes magic item creation more thematic
>magic items for purchase is something you generally can't find
>you may find apothecaries/scribes/wandwrights for low level cheap consumables
>for anything expensive you'll need to look into one of the two following options
>find an artisan who can make it for you and pay by commission to get him to craft it
>go to a flea market where other people like you trade and barter magic items they've found
>the former lets you custom order items, but takes time
>the later lets you get an item immediately, but might not have everything you want
>the changed DCs mean high end items can't be made by just anyone, and require PCs to go out and seek great artisans if they want something high end and specific

For classes that item creation feats I traded them out for skill focus in the associated craft skill.

>>51616188
Honestly, low mental stats to reflect poor strategic/tactical skills might be enough to make this believable. Pretty much any martial class can get away with this, but be careful with low Wisdom and imposing Will saves

>>51616065
Calm Animals
t. Druid

>>51616641
Rate my rules pls

>>51616065
Color Spray and pray

>>51616065
Rope trick.
Wait them out or crossbow.

>>51616575
>...no? The material component counts towards your WBL until you use it. However, when you use it, the masterwork item now counts towards WBL, and thus your wealth for the purposes of WBL has not changed.
It does if you use Blood Money. Blood Money for Masterwork Transformation puts in less money than you get out.

>>51616671
>you know what pathfinder needs? More complexity/10

>>51616641
>>51616671
How are the DCs changed, specifically?

>>51616694
>money you make using spells doesn't count as wealth.
This isn't funny anymore.

>>51616697
For magic item creation it really does. Craft Wondrous is monolithic and terrible conceptually.

Besides, who the fuck finds magic item creation complicated as is?

>>51616698
I base it on number of component spells and caster level. Having the spells no longer effects the DC, putting complicated items with a lot of component spells/high CL out of reach for many crafters.

Also, the component spells effect the DC based on their spell level rather just a base 5.

>>51616694
And at that point, the masterwork item STILL counts against your wealth, so you'll gain less money afterwards.

>>51616720
No, that's what I'm saying. With this you could easily go above WBL and have to be adjusted downwards when you level up rather than upward.

If you use blood money for masterwork transformation as an example you could put yourself a good deal above WBL and need to have it taken away to make you in line with the guideline.

>>51616682
How do you rope trick at level 1?

>>51616763
But you could easily put your WBL above the WBL you should have, so the GM has to take away some items. In this theoretical scenario.

>>51616817
With the Rope Trick scroll you OBVIOUSLY had because you'll get it back in your WBL anyway.

I'm not part of this discussion please don't hurt me

Continued assistance in tweaking a homebrew item that is going to be a major plot point is appreciated

http://pastebin.com/WLcZs95K

>>51616817
You break the rules because I'm stupid.

>>51616065
Am Barbarian. Am Big AND Strong. Am Tough.

Puny Wolf Die To AXE.

You can make a level 1 barbarian that solos two wolves easily.

>>51616867
Or a fighter with a reach weapon and combat reflexes. It isn't hard.

>>51616783
Sure, but "taken away" need not be so literal. You still need to drag those Mw. items around and find someone who'll buy them for them to meaningfully impact the game.

>>51616894
Or actually use them, it really depends on the character in question.

>>51616560
>>51616642
I'll talk to him about a mix of these two. Thanks guys.

>>51616188
>>51616560
>>51616642
Bad leadership does not necessarily come from being weak mentally, at least now in terms of low stats. Personality defects like paranoia, pride, overconfidence, cowardice, etc. all make you a poor commander without touching your mental stats.

>>51616944
That's true. Good roleplay could invalidate the need for a mechanical disadvantage to reflect bad leadership.

If he really wants a mechanical reflection though, maybe he could take a Drawback that affects Cha-based skills

>>51616980
Make him a Battle Oracle with "Friendless". Whenever he asks something of someone they are magically compelled to think he is a shithead.

>>51617007
Yeah, but then why would anyone give him a squad to command? You can't lead a squad of your own men to their deaths due to your own incompetence if no one thinks highly enough of you to give you a squad of men to lead to their deaths.

So I've got a little situation, I've been invited to my second pathfinder campaign. I've only played pathfinder for 2 hours and that was five years ago. I've basically forgot everything, except that everything about pathfinder was "DESUDESUDESUDESUDESU" is there anything else I really need to know?

>>51617073
Only people he asks to do things think he is a shit head, i.e. people he commands. People he doesn't ask things of aren't effected by his curse.

>>51616470
Because your character doesn't know that they'll be brought back up to WBL later, or that WBL is even a thing? Because the WBL rules are just guidelines, and thus abuse of them is likely to get the DM to beat your head with the book? Because you can't expect to have easy access to a magic item mart at all times, and thus can't instantly convert liquid wealth into items? Because often a PC doesn't have 100% control over what their WBL consists of, because they get what items the DM put in a dungeon? Because your consumable items don't just instantly turn into the money they were worth after you use them? Because your character might be more interested in buying a magic sword and better armor instead of a few dozen bottles of magic Kool-Aid? Because consumables usually take an action to consume, whereas some of the best and most expensive magical gear like a Cloak of Resistance is always on?

So let's say that I wanted to recreate the cape's effects from Doctor Strange, simultaneously blinding the person being grappled as well as potentially choking the person into unconsciousness. The issue is that there isn't really a "choking" mechanic in PF that actually works with what's known as a blood choke, the closest approximation being suffocation rules which only takes into account the loss of breath, which would take literally forever if I was trying to put one of my players down in the middle of combat.

Thus I'm proposing a new mechanic: Temporary Con damage. A step even further below normal Con damage, which takes entire days to heal up, temporary ability score damage will go back to normal in minutes and do not cause your actual numbers to lower. So for instance, temp Con damage will not make your normal HP become temporary HP. If a physical score goes to 0 you fall unconscious for a number of minutes, if a mental score goes to 0 you are basically turned into a schizo and make no sense but you're not technically unconscious.

So if the cape, for instance, would do a d4+1 temp Con every turn it's strangling, but to counterbalance that it can be attacked by the person it's attacking at the normal minuses to being grappled and has a lower HP itself. What do y'all think?

>>51617141
Bait?

Why are so many of these online games gestalt?

>>51617144
So the higher brass has no idea he's a shithead. They just keep giving him men. I can work with that. Oh holy jesus, I can make him something of a vital figure in my game setting too. So many decisions.

>>51617172
Because people got frustrated with low power games and over compensated in the opposite direction, then it became a fad.

Are the Rogue Genius godlings at all internally balanced?

>>51617172
Became a fad. One I do not personally like.

If the difference between a bad and a good build in a normal game is 1 and 10, it's close to 1 and 50 in a gestalt game. The optimization ceiling sky rockets in gestalt, especially because it's very easy to use combinations that do nothing for each other.

It also caused the epidemic of people trying to excuse their poor mechanical understanding with "I'm a good roleplayer". Good roleplayer or no I want people I play with to have a mechanical understanding of the system. Many of these people want to drag others to their level as well.

>>51617226
No, Eldritch Godling is much more powerful than the others.

I can't tell who is in the wrong in Shattered Star game. DHB or Espagnoll.

>>51617172
Ostensibly so that people can have more interesting character concepts and be less restricted by class, actually because /pfg/ wanks to power wank.

>>51617269
I personally find really powerful combos in a gestalt game not explicitly at a high op level pretty fucking awful though.

>>51617278
literally who cares

>>51617172
/pfg/-goers have lamented not getting to play gestalt before, so it's become a fad. Just like PoW-allowed

>>51617278
When in doubt...

Blame the namefag.

>>51617297
What do you mean?

>>51617269
Probably should have guessed the full caster was broken. What about Adept vs Mighty vs Clever?

>>51617305
>DM allows PoW because one guy keeps begging
>Now everyone in the party is using it to be as broken as possible
I wish my DM had some balls, but she doesn't.

>>51616090
My retarded brain still doesn't know how to build this class. Stats aren't really the problem, it's more like I have no fucking idea what feats to take. Aether Breath seems cool but I have no idea what to do with it. Do I just take Flyby Attack and Village Burner and call it a day?

>>51617318
Just like the you know, everyone is pitching together two classes at a middling power level - more making up for a deficit than looking for really strong synergy - and someone rolls in with something that'll steamroll everything else.

I don't think you should do gestalt with full casters at all, either.

>>51617326
Mostly because if you say "I won't be allowing PoW" then /pfg/ will refuse to touch the game with a 10 foot pole and actively try and bully the GM.

>>51617326
It is amazing how many warlords you see around.

>>51617362
>I don't think you should do gestalt with full casters at all, either.
I mean sure, but if the game allows it at its base then what is the issue.

Besides, wizard/cleric/witch make pretty bad gestalt choices actually.

>>51617377
I allowed SoP and PoW in my game, but I think only like, one applicant is from here, and they used SoP to make a character that I actually invited, while the only PoW user is a spear-themed Myrmidon.

So, my current character is most likely to die in the next session.

What is a fun class to bring heals/team support that isn't an Oracle?

>>51617411
That doesn't have anything to do with that point. We've seen time and again /pfg/ sperging and salting at maximum output when someone dares say "no PoW".

Or even worse when someone has a restricted race list /pfg/ goes into this weird passive aggressive shit spiral.

>>51617439
Because for months, /pfg/ was shilling PoW.

If you spoke out against it, you were "bullying Gareth".

>>51617436
Bard or Witch.

>>51617439
I'd play in an all-humans game personally. Like no other races at all, just humans.

>>51617461
It's more people consider any kind of restriction some kind of personal attack on them. Like not wanting Elves in your custom setting is attacking people who like elves.

There are people who will refuse to play in a setting without elves on the grounds it doesn't have elves. Which I can not fathom.

>>51617482
On the flip, I've had a player rage at me for not allowing him to "genocide the Elves!!!!" like he kept shouting about in chat.

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>>51617278
>mentioned shattered star again
Are you ready to die motherfucker? Are you ready for your life to end right here in this moment?

>>51617489
I'm a bit worried about getting this reaction to my KITSUNE TORTURE FRENZY PARTY game NGL.

>>51617490
I am trying to kill the game here, let me be.

>>51617466
I might have good news for you in the coming months then.

>>51617464
How do I play a bard that isn't sexually attracted to everything?

>>51617520
Don't play one that's sexually attracted to everything?

>>51617508
It got worse once that For Honor game started showing up, two players won't stop with their "DEUS VULT XDDDDD" shit.

>>51617508
It's because you're not nearly as funny or competent as you think you are.

>>51617508
I mean? Isn't that what you want in a Ktsune Torture Frenzy Party?

>>51617520
Play one that's sexually attracted to one thing all the time.

>>51617539
>DEUS VULT

This shit is so fucking annoying

>>51617520
Play an archaeologist bard. Now you're Indiana Jones and everything is sexually attracted to you.

>>51617539

Well, it could have just as easily been vikings or weeaboos.

>>51617536
That isn't how bards work.

>>51617548
I will attempt.

>>51617572
I love it.

>>51617570
I really don't get why so many people glorify murderers and rapists that went and pillaged another land and pretended it was in the name of God.

>>51617540
That's true, this game would be a healing process for me.

>>51617545
No, that seems to short on the in-game potential of attempted genocide. It's never easy, clean or complete.

>>51617602
Then you don't understand a good chunk of human history.

It's all comes down to a matter of perspective.

>>51617355
The great thing about Avowed is that it's not very feat heavy.
You choose a shape to main in and each shape has maybe one or two feats needed to make it work, and then maybe another one or two to make it respectably good, and you're all set.

For many shapes, Empower Spell Like Ability plus Overcharge Modulation will help give you the biggest damage numbers, at the cost of debuffing capability, so that's a place to start.

Kineticist question, specifically Onslaughts:

What happens if your blast gets sized-up to 2d6 (d6>d8>2d6)? Does it divide into further blasts? If so, WHEN does it do this?

Does it split only with the initial damage value?
Does is use the archetype abilities beforehand? Or feats?

>>51617602
Absent of all modern moral wrangling, the First Crusade is one of those moments in history that must be closest to the idea of the stereotypical D&D adventurer. It's completely fascinating: the Crusader Princes and many of their men simultaneously held the noble (and potentially immensely self-sacrificing and immensely cruel) goals of their faith and their own venal goals. It's almost the embodiment of the contradiction of ruling in the Christian Middle Ages. I mean look at Bohemond and what happens in Acre.

>>51617602
You realize that you're playing a game about murdering an enormous number of often intelligent creatures, right?

>>51617602
Ever heard "the enemy of my enemy is my friend?" Well, people apply that to imagined enemies, too.

I'd have preferred it if Pope Urban had just admitted "hey, so we're going to keep the Arabs away from Constantinople, and you're getting paid, but nobody's actually going to Heaven specifically for this." But THAT wouldn't have convinced anyone to sign up.

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>>51617665
No, it stays at the base size. The amount of blasts is determined by your effective dice due to leveling.

>>51617791
Can you explain that a bit more just so it's completely clear?

So like, if you're level 10 and have 5 blasts, and they become 2d6s, then each blast WILL be 2d6? not 2 blasts of 1d6?

I thought I'd read it splits into single dice but that was a few weeks ago and I'd just skimmed over it.

>>51617602
Ask a muslim why they glorify the prophet.

Same shit applies.

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>>51617913
That is correct; even if the base blast increases in size to 2d6, it stays at 2d6 rather than splitting into a new blast.

>>51617602
same reason many Muslims glorify jihad, the violent expansionism of the Ottoman Empire, and ISIS

>no gaem cause of Mythweavers crash

I WANT TO DIE

>>51618121
I, too, want you to die.

>>51618179
kill me my dude

>>51618196
Me first bruh.

You are applying to a game. Another player applies with a wizard. How does this make you feel?

>>51618230
it makes me feel nothing i literally don't care

>>51618025
Now THAT is some fantastic art.

>>51618249
This is a good response.

Now how does it make you feel if he is a high optimization wizard?

>>51618230
Depends on how optimized the wizard is, if it's a necromancer specializing in asking the undead questions and applying necromancy debuffs, then I won't be offended. But if it's a divination wizard with imp init, conjuration focus and a greensting scorp then it makes me reeeeee

>>51618268
i literally don't care.

Myth-Weavers exodus when and where

>>51618298
never.

Keep local backups, its still the best way to easily share public sheets.

>>51618230
It depends entirely on what their sheet says for spells and feats.
Human with Combat Expertise and Dodge, where they're clearly gearing up to go for a DEX-gish later down the line, or Elemental Focus (Fire) and Spell Focus (Evocation) because they're going to blast things to smithereens? I don't mind whatsoever, and even offer to help them slim their build and streamline things.
Extend Spell, Sacred Geometry, Samsaran pilfering from the Bard and Witch lists, with the same cookie-cutter options like Glitterdust, Sleep, Color Spray, and Grease? First I ask why they're doing the boring and safe route, and if they don't change I drop the game.

>>51618341
There is literally nothing wrong with extend spell. If you had said Dazing then sure.

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Here's something small:
I'm trying to pick up some utility gear and happened on this substance http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/special-materials#TOC-Linite
Do you think there's a more cost effective way to burn/freeze whatever I need infinitely without the high price/self-damage? I'm starting to look through the magic items list since this is preferable to taking mage levels.

>>51618025
Alright, good to know (kinda sad I can't split it though). One more question then: how's that interact with +1/die forms, effects and abilities?

Like physical blasts get +1/damage die, is that two damage dice or is one damage die equal to 2d6 now?

Like, if you have physical blast and the ring, firing a rank 5 blast, that would be 5(2d6+2) or 5(2d6+4)?

>>51618411
Well, for one thing you'll wanna look at Siccatite. Linite is just a copied reskin of it from Godmetals of Porphyra, just like all their other special materials.

>tfw you've created dozens of new classes, feats, etc. in house rules for a game you'll never run

>>51618411
>3pp special material
Good luck convincing a DM to allow it.

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>games getting canceled left and right
>mfw I just got my roleplay buzz from toying with a "Microsoft Call Center" guy for five minutes

I need help

>>51615415
Weird robot dudes

>>51618230

Relieved.
If they go for a fun unique angle with it, I get to play with a fun, unique character.
If they want to make the Bob the Builder fix-all Wizard, I get to make whatever fun build I want, and don't have to worry about fucking the team over because, hey, can you fix it, Mr. Bob D. Builder? Yes you can. If that same guy also tries to steal the spotlight for whatever I was built to do, I trust the GM/Mr. Bob's player to fix that behavior for the continued enjoyment of all involved.

If I'm applying to a game where I can't trust the GM to make sure the game is fun for all parties, why am I signing up for that game?

N. Jolly, Character Art anon, I require your aid.

I need punchgirls with big tits.

What is the kind of game you most want to play in, /pfg/?

>>51615536
Encountered a succubus in a dungeon while playing a Chaotic Evil Crusader of a Chaotic Neutral war god. She begged us for help destroying a more powerful rival, and my character politely agreed, and engaged her in a rousing conversation about the weather and recent events in Abyssal, since none of the other party members could speak it.
It was a most pleasant encounter, and it gave us an opportunity to butcher powerful foes and spill blood all over. I hope we see her again someday.

>>51618625
this is what happens when myth weavers goes boom

>>51618667
The fantasy version of the expendables

>>51618667
Comfy

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>>51618659

CLASSIC

>>51618667
Iron Gods as an E7 (or E10 or something) game, but it's also XCom.

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>>51618418
The math kinda messes up if we allow them to keep splitting.

That's one damage die equal to 2d6 now, and I'm going to say 5(2d6+2) at the moment.

I'll talk with Onyx about it, see if we come to an agreement on how it should be read.

>>51618659
How big are we talking here?

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>>51618667
>>51618659

The game I want to play in the most is a comfy (as in, party-focused around wealth or power accumulation rather than saving the world) campaign focused around developing a region from the ground up.

Think Kingmaker - in fact, I'd want to play Kingmaker, only replace the Fey with Brevoy's deteriorating political situation.

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Have you ever made your own Outsiders?
Either standalone, brand new ones, or new ones into preexisting types to fit a niche you needed?
Please share some.

>>51618722
i want to brawl her

>>51618595
Link it faggot

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>>51618698
>>51618722
>>51618728
Oh yes...

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>>51618776

Did you have a look in mind for this huge-chested brawler?

>>51618741
I have.

I got rid of all the current outsiders except Rakshasa, and got rid of the outer planes.

All Outsiders were native outsiders and represented different versions of an evolving reincarnation cycle. Rakshasa has the most straight forward.

Another example is hags. I changed hags to be the CE native outsider. How a hag evolves is by kidnapping a mortal and torturing them. The torture slowly changes the mortal into a hag. When this transformation is complete the previous hag withers away and the newly created one takes their places as the next step of their evolution.

All of these native outsiders are heading towards a powerful endgame of reincarnation. However the number of ones who reached the final stage of their evolution can be counted, between all 9 types, on 2 hands.

How do the PoW classes fare in the tier list?

>>51618828
Usually Tier 3

>>51618828
Tier 3, but very strong tier 3.

>>51618800
Well she's a Tiefling with the Pass For Human trait so anything that looks human is fine with me. Preferably with silver-ish hair though I'm not too picky.

>>51618828
T3 for the most part, sometimes a bit higher depending on your specific use of particular maneuvers and their interaction

>>51618722
Hey Jolly get in the chat I got a thing for ya.

>>51618828
Tier 3 because they don't do out of combat. In combat generally they will outperform tier 2 and 1 characters in everything but heavy battlefield control.

>>51618903
>. In combat generally they will outperform tier 2 and 1 characters in everything but heavy battlefield control.
That's every combat class though.

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>>51618659

>>51618929
Try to outperform a witch in debuffing without PoW.

>>51618722
Not same anon but I'll keep an eye out; it's ... PROBABLY okay numberwise if they're non-split even with energy types (the main problem with a split is the physical's x3 onslaught hit bonus multiplier).

One question in regards to equipment:
A Cracked Teardrop Ioun grants +1 to the appropriate element so long as the blast could benefit from overflow.

Weakened Overflow does not provide damage from overflow, but do the appropriate blasts (as it's a changed to your overflow ability not to the blasts themselves) still count as having the ability to benefit?

I hate Knowledge skills. What's a good way to nerf them?

>>51618893
what chat?

>>51618981
why

>>51618990
pfg

>>51618981
what? why?

>>51618698
I want to stunning Strike dem tittays!

>>51618741
I made a new kind of Super Elf that was basically a race of New Gods or Asgsrdians that lived in another dimension and ruined people's shit

>>51619003
>>51619014

For some reason I always get players who over optimize and know the true name of the unspeakable god who hasn't been seen for 10000 years at level 1.

>>51619014
Probably he considers it "metagaming" for our characters to know information we as players might not.

I knew a GM like that. I'd ask questions and he'd just pretend I'd not so much as talked.

Sometimes if I tried to use something akin to studied-target, he'd just magically handwave my entire attack off. Did YOU know that if you've already used your immediate this turn, AND your only counter is "if successful move 5ft, if that takes you out of range of the attack it misses", AND you're in the open with no possible cover, AND the incoming attack has a good 80ft more before it even enters its second range increment, you avoid the shot even if you rolled badly and well below the result of the incoming hit?

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So folks who have read Psychic Anthology and Heroes of the High Court

Does a Silksworn with the Mage's Paraphernalia Panoply end up in Tier 2 territory? I'm thinking they actually might.

As well, has Paizo done goofed by printing the Trappings of the Warrior? It doesn't make the Occultist full BaB in effect- it actually GIVES them Full BaB for investing all their mental focus into Transmutation and Abjuration, the two best implements for a melee-loving occultist! And the Focus Power isn't half-bad either!

>>51619070
They're pretty stunning already.

>>51619093
You could just say they don't know about him.

>>51619093
You're retarded and apparently don't actually know the rules.

>>51618903
Tiers 3-6 are "How much can this guy do to contribute?"

Tier 2 is "How does this guy break the game?"

Tier 1 is "How many ways does this guy break the game?"

You can't compare a Wizard to a Bard. It's not just a matter of in combat strength, the Wizard is operating under a different paradigm.

>>51619093
Just make it DC (infinity).

Unless they're trying Candle of Invocation bullshit, in which case show them the door.

>>51619108
Maybe it will make it so that people actually start playing psychic classes.

>>51619116

And you apparently don't understand facetiousness

>>51619147
Why would I when Psionic classes exists?

>>51619127
This does not invalidate anything I said. They're tier 3 because they don't warp the campaign. They still outperform tier 2 and 1 in combat in everything but edge cases like "lol simulacrum army".

https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/67969/when-the-sun-falls
https://app.roll20.net/join/1803693/cj7W9A
Heya. Berserk/Evil GM here. Join my games.

>>51619152
You apparently don't know what facetiousness means.

>>51619157
I mean, Psionic and Psychic classes occupy two different niches. Psionics are more refluffable, while the Occult classes (which IMO is a much better name for them) are pretty clearly gonna be more like Penny Dreadful and Victorian-era occultism rather than Psionics being, yknow, MIND POWERS.

>>51614329
Been away for a while and I see some new 3pp playtests. Can anyone explain what the Avowed and Spheres of Might are?

>>51619093
You know base Knowledge checks only give statblock information, right? And in order to find true names the rules explicitly state that the character needs to spend at least a month exploring dangerous temples and ancient scrolls, right?

>>51619241

Psychic classes are better for actually representing the themes of parapsychology.

Psionic classes are sorcerers that for some reason have fuckweird names for all of their spells.

>>51619273
This x 100.

If I want to play a spooky Victorian-era parapsychologist who examines skulls, talks with ghosts, and divines things with dice and throwing bones, I'm gonna play one of the Occult classes.

If I want to use my MIND POWERS to blow stuff up, I'll play one of the Psionic classes. I have nothing against psionics, and am not championing one over the other, but I emphasize that they serve different niches.

>>51619263
Avowed is Forrest's new class, some kind of warlock-esque thing.

Spheres of Might is Spheres of Power, but for martial characters.

>>51619157
Because fuck psionics.

Guess it's just my personal bias against psionics because a game I was in was ruined by a guy who screeched about his superiority as a psionic to all players and their characters IC and OOC

>>51619273
>Psychic classes are better for actually representing the themes of parapsychology.

I disagree. They're all pretty much "I see dead people" style psychics.

>>51619263
Avowed is a good take on the old Warlock class. Different categories of pacts, each pact gives you a little ability package similar to 5e's pacts. Blast shapes get their own progression so you're not eating into your invocations anymore, except eldritch blast is now called aether pulse and invocations are now called clauses. pulse shapes can be selected up to 4 times to upgrade them. Several fighting styles are supported in this way.

Excellent all-around, with a lot of variety. There's even a feat that along with a few small bonuses changes the entire Avowed to STR based. In case that Self-pact wasn't enough for your muscle-magic.

Spheres of Might is an attempt to use the "spheres of power" style system for martials, as an alternative to path of war.

>>51619343
>>51619324


Huh, neat. I've been waiting for a good PF Warlock.

>>51619328
Yeah, it's probably you and your fag friend.
It IS the objectively best magic system available in Pathfinder though

>>51619335

Which, coincidentally, was the primary focus of parapsychological research

>>51619328
That guy was an asshole and probably didn't read Rule 1 Of Psionics (You can never spend more than your Manifesting Level on a single power), so he thought he could auto-nova everything at a super-low level.
Having been raised on videogames that have MP pools and the like, Psionics just makes more sense to me. I'd suggest giving it another shot with a more sane party, figure out again if you actually hate it, or just hate the guy who ruined it for you.

>>51619335
They've got trepanning, the occult skill unlocks, auras, all sorts of rituals, and the list does go on.

>>51619403
>got trepanning, the occult skill unlocks, auras, all sorts of rituals
That's all "I see dead people stuff" though.

>>51619422
>automatic writing, dowsing, faith healing, hypnotism, phrenology, prognostication, psychometry, aura reading
So you don't actually know what parapsychology is.

>>51619457
>automatic writing, dowsing, faith healing, hypnotism, phrenology, prognostication, psychometry, aura reading
That's all basically "I see dead people stuff" and stuff Psionics wasn't really supposed to do until 7th Path which got panned for it.

What class should I play if I want to play a skateboarder who fights with her skateboard, but is also from hell and has Satan powers?

>>51619483
What the fuck does phrenology have to do with dead people? Or hypnotism?

>>51619483
>That's all basically "I see dead people stuff"
Not that anon, but you're paranormally retarded.

>>51619497
Play a different system
>>51619402
I think he was talking more about the player's attitude than the actual mechanics.

>>51619483
>Psionics
... We're talking about Occult/Psychic, not Psionics, anon.

>>51619516
>phrenology have to do with dead people?
Well there are quite a few skulls involved...

What's a good prestige class for a merchant?

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>>51618858

The chest isn't apparent, but how's this?

>>51619526
>Play a different system
????

>>51619540
Well shit I guess I was just echoing his point then.

>>51619497
Construct Rider Alchemist with Eldritch Heritage (Infernal bloodline)

>>51619551
True, but it's not "I see dead people," it's "This guy is super dead. Here's what he used to be like."

>>51619567
http://archivesofnethys.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Balanced%20Scale%20of%20Abadar

>>51619590
Thanks senpai.

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>>51619572
Pathfinder is poorly equipped to handle any era where Skateboards are a thing. All you're going to get are incredibly poor fitting re-fluff suggestions like >>51619590
which will create incredibly dumb absurdities like your skateboard getting mind controlled or scared.

>>51619639
That's fine, my skateboard has an AI in it.

New Thread >>51619653
>>51619653
>>51619653
>>51619653
>>51619653
>>51619653

>>51619658
It's also a large sized creature.

>>51619667
>large
For whom?

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>>51619661
>page 5
>obvious bait in op topic
>barely not porn for the image
Yeah no, I'll wait for the real thread.

>>51619667
Ideally it would be good if it could change sizes.

>>51619571
Any more? She's very cute

>>51619551
Why skulls?

... are we the baddies?

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>>51619661
>delet
HAHAHA!

>>51619661
Hahahahaha, you dumb fucker.

>>51619692
For you and everyone around you.
Your "skateboard" now has an A.I and is as large as a Horse or a Camel.
>>51619714
I guess that you can try to constantly get some spells to do it, but that's my definition of an incredibly poor re-fluff and something I personally wouldn't let fly.

Not to mention it's a massive waste of resources.

>>51619661
get fucked nigger

>>51619661
Damn, deleted before I could even report it

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>>51619661

I got this, new thread:
>>51619803
>>51619803
>>51619803
>>51619803
>>51619803

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>>51619661
>couldn't even report it before it exploded in flames