/epg/ - Eclipse Phase General

>>51593509
So what is that, a directed EMpulse gun?

>>51594061
I think it jams a drone's signal. Either way, just get a SAM, desu.

Have any of you guys looked through the Apocalypse World conversion? It looks pretty look but I'm familiar enough with AP to judge. I've heard great things about Powered by Apocalypse games none of the settings appealed to my group.

>>51595239

I vaguely remember it from a while ago, but it was still indev and seemed a little janky. I don't know if it's been refined.

In my experience AW hacks work best emulating genres and specific roles archetypes, I don't know if that works for EP - the "the movie" type of game with EP already seems to be the FATE hack.

>>51594385
>just use an $80,000 missile to take out a $1000 drone
Plus it probably won't even establish a lock on a small piece of plastic with minimal heat signature.

>>51594061
I don't think you could get enough directional gain for that with just a yagi antenna. The side lobes would cook you as much as the target.

I'm thinking of running a couple of adventures focused on weird far-out shit. I need your help /epg/. What are your top tree crazy cool elements in the setting I can base an adventure on?

>>51598431

I dunno, start with any of the explicit plot hooks in the books, maybe?

>>51598431
Are these new players?

>>51599185
Kinda. They know the basic of the setting and have played through Continuity though.

>>51599821

So they're familiar with mutant exsurgents and derelict spacecraft. I'd say hit them with maybe some of the weird ego AI type stuff, like Think Before Asking or the Devotees.

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After having a read through this setting, a few things really bother me.

The problem of continuity (the unbroken chain of consciousness and memories that guarantees you are you) obviously comes up in two places. Resleeving, and egocasting. And i get that its *meant* to be unsettling. This IS a horror game. But the weird thing about this setting is that, as far as i can see, they seem to have technology that would many of the horrifying implications largely moot.

Just to start with, to open with both barrels on continuity in the setting. If you tell someone, "An exact copy of you exists on earth right now. Will you kill yourself with this pistol right now if I make him a billionaire?". Your answer should be no. Its a version of you, and you might feel better knowing its out there if death is inevitable. But its not you and you don't profit.

> Re-sleeving.

So, for biological morphs this is actually pretty non-stressful as far as continuity goes, because it makes it clear that people can be and are conscious for the experience. You may be in a nanogel pond with a corpse, but you're awake and sensible for the entire process over an hour or so, so any innate terror at the process is probably going to be pretty minimal.

For the digital life though you are... well, digital. 0 and 1. You must copy yourself and delete the original, and its instant so there's no ambiguity or time to adjust.

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>>51601243


Ironically, the life that handles resleeving more easily also has the more terifying implications behind it. You *could* run both of yourselves in parallel synced up and then delete the old one, which achieves something similar to the biomorph and is less terrifying. But still, it's instant, so how do you even tell if you even really have continuity? Your memories don't have a gap in them, but unlike the biolife you didn't spend the time watching a movie while wondering about what that neo-orangutan bitch at work is going to say about your new body. Its impossible to tell if you have genuine continuity or an illusion of one.

There's all sorts of philosophical arguments to this stuff, and people who bring it up in universe get told they're stupid and it doesn't matter (even though it obviously does, see the killed for cash example above). But the biggest problem I have to this is that in-setting it doesn't seem like it should be an issue.

We have advanced cybernetics. Why not go full Ghost In The Shell, and just mount everyone's brain in a cybershell? Pod bodies already use a hybrid system as is, and human brains are already covered in cybernetic meshware. You could replace your nanovat by giving every morph's head a damn lid. And for people already housed inside a cyberbrain, the fact that its not removable makes no sense whatsoever. There's probably more than one model out there. But at least for human sized morphs a standard is already going to exist.

It's quicker for biomorphs, obvious for synth-morphs, less terrifying for everyone concerned and - crucially - entirely within the technology of the setting.

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>>51601275

> Re-Sleeving II: Electric Boogaloo (Or re-sleeving from Cortical Stacks)

So cortical stacks. They make sense. Even given the analogy above, it makes sense that people would get these even if they don't actually grant immortality. After all, hope is hope. And if nothing else anyone who has ever lost a loved one knows the agony involved. If you had some way of ensuring your own loved ones didn't suffer that agony, you'd make sure you had a backup even if - again - they do not grant immortality.

Or could they?

The the reason that cortical stacks are not you when you die is that they only contain a detailed brainscan. If your brain explodes, the cortical stack can be picked up and your last scan recovered. Great. But - and this is more speculation on my part - we already have seamless interaction of organic and cyberware in-setting. Couldn't just just engineer human brains not to store the memories and personality in their organic matter at all, and keep it entirely within the cortical stack? It already interacts with the brain constantly. Time lags can't be an issue. And it cannot be hacked in-setting.

It's a small difference. But it's the difference of dying and waking up a copy, and dying and waking up and knowing some part of yourself has been carried over. And of course, it might not actually be possible within the settings technology. But its something to think about.

>>51601243
>The problem of continuity (the unbroken chain of consciousness and memories that guarantees you are you)
That's a completely arbitrary definition of selfhood which doesn't even stand up to scrutiny when you look at how surgical anesthesia works. Quit acting like it's a given.

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>>51601301

> Ego-casting.

This is by far the most iffy part of the setting. You walk into a room, you get scanned, your copy gets sent across the universe and then your old corpse is dragged out of the room. Or it walks out and you just sent a copy. It genuinely does not matter, which should be just one of many massive red-flags. Unlike the re-sleeving there's no process or gradual nature to it. It's a suicide booth with a transmitter. Continuity of self is absolutely broken, although admittedly not for long since your transmission goes at the speed of light. But still, there is a clear break of death and waking up.

Except, why? This setting has quantum entanglement communications (Instantaneous, absolutely no delay communication). Admittedly, they are apparently very expensive. So that's a definite issue with my suggestion. But still, the aforementioned biomorph resleeving in a pond with a corpse is at least basically non-stressful. Quantum communication is instant. It doesn't matter that the other you who is getting their brain rewritten is across the room or across the universe. You could still do the leasurely 'ill watch a movie while bitching about my ex on Spacebook' re-sleeve with your new body on the other side of the communicator.

Again, this might not be feasible at all if QC are very expensive and rare. But it solves ego-casting's inherent murderous nature entirely.

---

Anyway, just my immediate thoughts after having a good read of the setting.

> TL:DR - A horror setting might be intentionally horrifying.

>>51601308

Continuity IS broken when you lose consciousness, fall asleep or whatever.

The difference is that you haven't - or at least you assume you haven't - changed your body in the meantime.

You assume you are still you without actual proof because you have no reason to assume otherwise.

It's not a definition of self-hood and its not meant to be, its just a loose description of why brain uploading would frighten people.

And anyway. The point of my posts was not to really to argue about continuity so much as it was to point out that there are ways to alleviate the problem achievable in-setting that aren't being used.

>>51601380
>The difference is that you haven't - or at least you assume you haven't - changed your body in the meantime.
>You assume you are still you without actual proof because you have no reason to assume otherwise.
What does switching bodies have to do with it? What reason do you have to think you're still you when you wake up in the morning? You assume it without any actual proof (not that there could ever be proof since selfhood is an arbitrary condition) because waking up in the morning is just a fact of life.

>It's not a definition of self-hood and its not meant to be, its just a loose description of why brain uploading would frighten people.
Resleeving is a fact of life in the setting just as waking up is for you. People got the fuck over it.

>>51601328

QC is also data capped. You have a finite number of the entangled qubits which while good for text, audio and even video if you have a large storage would very quickly be expended by large data transmissions of Egos and similar complexity. It also can only be done between the entangled devices, which must be physically met then entangled, then separated.

So basically, when you run out of qubits to send an ego, you need to take apart your egocasting rig, take out the bits which contain the entangled particle, hike them all the way back across the solar system to wherever the mated link is, re-entangle them with all the qubits, and ship it all the way back then build it again. Or you can just suck it up and sleep through it like sleeping through a plane ride across an ocean like a normal person.

>>51601301
>And it cannot be hacked in-setting.

Er... It HASN'T been hacked to anyone's knowledge, thus far. As far as hacking a cortical stack is concerned, that depends on what kind of access you have to it - if it's already popped, then you have physical access, and you can do whatever the fuck you want to it - load up the ego into a simulspace and you can literally turn the ego into anything.

Cortical stacks don't generally get hacked because it's easier to fuck with the transhuman brain than with it's last-ditch back-up. If you infect one of the back-up copies of a transhuman, then until that copy comes out of storage, you basically spent your resources on nothing. If that copy gets over-written by a newer one, then you actually spent your resources on nothing.

On the other hand, if you infect an active transhuman, you gained an active agent - who can then get himself backed up before you make him do anything suspicious.

There's no reward in infecting a backup nobody will use or care about when you could infect an actual meat-sleeved ego that is active.

>>51601243
Digital resleeving isn't instant though, it takes something between 2-10 seconds. That's still very disorienting but thanks to error checking and likely some attempts to keep continuity maintained I'd expect continuity to not break. It'd probably be like falling down unexpectedly, but landing in a new body. Very disorienting.

>>51601301
I don't see what the difference would be between the cortical stack having the only copy of your memories vs there being two copies in your head. A copy is a copy even if no others exist. It's the same information either way, and this is extra true if they're stored in the same physical location.

>>51601308
Continuity is helpful because if you have it, it's very easy to claim you're the same person even if a lot changes. Losing continuity doesn't really mean that you become a different person.

>>51601328
Your body is still fully functional, the ego just isn't in it any more. It's not a corpse at all.

This is why I said that continuity loss isn't proof of anything. You might lose awareness for a few milliseconds or maybe minutes depending on how long the resleeving process is, but that doesn't change who you are. It's like how getting knocked out out spending time dead (but cold) don't make you a new person.
>but you're in a new place
I think people really overstate how important this is. The human mind is almost totally location-invarient. If you suddenly were really close to a black hole or something maybe it would be different, but the laws of physics which the mind operates on don't really change with location.
>But you're in a new/different body
That one might make some sense. Losing consciousness and waking up as a robot would be weird, and potentially closer to suddenly being a new person. Morphs can apparently change the way their egos act to a degree. I think the fact the memories and opinions don't change is enough to keep someone the same person though.

Lack is what people should really worry about.

>>51601631
Since QC is actually instant it would also be possible to send into the very recent past, which really throws a wrench into the question of which is the original. EP doesn't really address that at all though, so it's probably best to just ignore that.

>>51601631

Also, it's a pair only. This means you'd need a bout a jillion different links for each different location you need to transmit to, or suck up WAY more bandwidth than you should routing yourself through multiple stations.

>>51601633

The stack is input only without specialty hardware - but the specialty hardware is the Ego Bridge. Which aren't currently portable - but other than that fairly accessible to most nefarious people.

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>>51601501

> What does switching bodies have to do with it?

The difference between going under for surgery and being resleeved is my body has changed. Waking up in a brand new body (without major scars around the head area) would certainly make me worried I was not the original me.

> Its a fact of life.

Just because something is a 'fact of life' doesn't mean the problem magically goes away. Committing suicide for the most minor dishonor was a 'fact of life' for Samurai. I imagine some still found it stressful.

> Resleeving is a fact of life in the setting just as waking up is for you. People got the fuck over it.

Then why does the game literally provide you mechanics for judging how stressful re-sleeving, loss of continuity etc. is on your character? The game literally tells you that people find it frightening. People have not got the fuck over it. People are ignoring it in-universe because the implications are horrifying.

Anyway. Step down the hostility.

>>51601647
>Continuity is helpful because if you have it, it's very easy to claim you're the same person even if a lot changes
Tell that to Phineas Gage

>>51601689
>Waking up in a brand new body (without major scars around the head area) would certainly make me worried I was not the original me.
Why would that make you more worried than waking up in any other scenario?
>Just because something is a 'fact of life' doesn't mean the problem magically goes away.
Then why aren't you concerned about whether you're the same person when you wake up in the morning?
>Then why does the game literally provide you mechanics for judging how stressful re-sleeving, loss of continuity etc. is on your character?
Losing continuity can be stressful without making you question whether you're the same person.

>>51601676
There's spider-bots which can read from a cortical stack in The Devotees, so you don't need an ego bridge, or they can be pretty portable.

>>51601694
I'm fairly certain he briefly lost consciousness, but that's actually what I was thinking of when I said "very easy" instead of something absolute. He's the exception.

>>51601736
>He's the exception
He's only an exception to how long it takes to become a different person.

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>>51601725

So basically, what you are telling me via your responses is that you would totally take the deal i mentioned.

An identical copy of you exists on the planet right now. I will make him rich beyond his wildest dreams if you let me shoot you in the head. He will have every memory up to and including me shooting you in the head.

You are okay with this? Y/N.

If there is nothing more to you than your memories and personality, and it does not matter which brain you are storing them in, this deal is okay to you. Correct?

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I've sort of been overwhelmed by the responses, though i am reading them all. Did want to reply specifically to this though.

>>51601647

>I don't see what the difference would be between the cortical stack having the only copy of your memories vs there being two copies in your head. A copy is a copy even if no others exist. It's the same information either way, and this is extra true if they're stored in the same physical location.

Factually we know there is no difference. But beyond that, it should still make people uncomfortable. Again, use the scenario of 'man offers to make your exact duplicate rich if he can kill you' as a touchstone.

The duplicate is every bit of your information, personality and memory. Yet he is not you, because you are you.

The cortical stack as a backup drive is similar. There is no actual difference except to the person who is the drive.

>>51601243
The vast majority of people who had reservations about resleeving died in the Fall. As a result, the setting is heavily self-selected in favor of people being ok with dying as long as copies exist somewhere.

>>51601803
It's a pretty shit deal tbqh, as you'll probably just shoot, and never make the copy. Save yourself a neat billion bucks with me having no way to know you did that. Otherwise it'd be fairly tempting.

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>>51601877

Well. In fairness, i probably could have just shot you without offering the deal then!

But yeah. For the purposes of the thought experiment assume i am legit. Believable beyond any shadow of a doubt (maybe ive offered this deal to people before. Im famous for it. And hated by people who must clean carpets where i go).

Also, 'fairly tempting'? Why? Why isn't accepting the deal completely and obviously one-sided, to the point where you'd have to be a total idiot not to take it?

If continuity is not a problem. If it does not matter in the slightest as long as the information is preserved, agreeing is the only sane option.

>>51601736

A gun with wheels is mobile, this doesn't make it portable.

>>51601964
Primarily it's because suddenly coming into a lot of money can really fuck your life up, especially if a lot of people know about it. I've read a lot of stories about that, and I'm not 100% sure I want to risk that.

Excluding that issue and reducing this to the basic "would you break continuity for a reward" aspect I'm not 100% sure that continuity doesn't matter. I believe that Computationalism is true and that continuity isn't really a problem (I've been under general anesthetic) so what would be left is indeed me.

But I have two reservations: First Physicalism might be true, in which case properly copying the information in a mind over to a new physical brain might not copy true. We don't know enough about the mind and brain yet to totally rule that out.

Secondly, that new me would probably be a fork in EP terms, so I likely wouldn't retain *my* subjective experience, even though another me (which really would be me) does. I haven't thought through it enough to decide how attached I am to my current subjective experience, or how much that really matters. I'm not even sure how long the continuity chain of my subjective experience is, or what that even means in objective terms.

Finally, I'm a fairly risk-adverse person, so while this discussion is mostly theoretical I'm not really comfortable with going through with an essentially irreversible decision without knowing much about the empirical mechanics which underly it. Basically I don't know enough about the mind or mechanics of resleeving to be completely comfortable with going through with it, though under the beliefs which I think are true it should be fine.

>>51602104
>Portable servers on spidery legs crawl through the piles, inserting jacks, rezzing egos, and labeling stacks according to what they find.

page 16 The Devotees. They're portable servers, so about carry-on luggage sized. That includes the hardware needed to run 10 egos.

>>51602355

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure cortical stacks don't actually have access jacks and the hardware in Portable Servers doesn't mention they can directly access a stack.

So, while a lovely thematic element to Legba, forgive me if I'm not going to apply it as a general rule of the setting we should count on just because Caleb Stokes wrote that in.

That said, the core book is a little confusing on the subject. In gear it says they are a "vat" device but when they are first mentioned in uploading it says they're about as big as a bread box. And like most gear no mention is made of powering them.

>>51602569
You don't need an ego-bridge to access a cortical stack, and the hardware needed to access one is pretty small, seeing as it fits in a Spare morph, which also has all the stuff like legs and eyes, while being the size of a big football.

I don't think those were standard portable servers (the legs are definitely nonstandard) but the hardware needed to access a stack should be pretty small. I think they fit within the technical limits of EP tech.

>>51602767

Well, if an ego bridge is at most the size of a bread box - if you only needed to plug in a stack and not an entire head sized object you could probably build the Spare, as the negative space it needs to work with would be smaller.

People typically say one can only read a stack from a bridge, and in the text I can only ever find specific mention of using a Bridge or another specific piece of equipment (I/E the Spare) to do so.

Hey guys, rookie question but maybe you can help.
Do the costs of multi level traits stack?

Example: Psi 1 is 20, Psi 2 is 25.
If I have psi 1, does 2 just cost 5.

Im probably missing something in my book, so if there's a page number let me know.

>>51603817
That's how I always interpreted it based on the other traits

>>51603817
You don't need to buy both traits, so you can just buy psi 2 for 25.

Where it gets confusing is whether a Lost character who already has psi 1 needs to pay 5 or 25 for psi 2. Personally as a GM I'd just charge 5 for it, because psi is more flavorful than strong.

>>51603086
I figure it's a specialized access port which is most frequently found on Spares and ego bridges, but I don't see why it couldn't be built as a standalone device.

>>51601676
Actually wasn't there some morph, called a spare or something. It was a very small, cheap, and mostly useless synth used by gatecrashers that is mostly meant to get a person from being dead to at least contributing some brainpower and moving again. I believe it accepted stacks directly.

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>tfw no slutty AGI girlfriend

I've been thinking of running a hypercorp game set on Mars, with the caveat that everyone are actually startup managers and small business owners with a free version of the Entrepeneur trait at Level 3. A story about a bunch of dudes, dudettes and neo-synergist hermaphroditic hypergibbons just trying to cut it in New New Silicon Valley, and occasionally being paged to deal with ridiculously corrupt and bureaucratic hypercorps sometimes shitting the bed and releasing X-Risks.

>>51601803
Depends on when the copy is made. Do it after the deal and my answer is definitely, assuming you can prove copy fidelity.

>>51604692
>no slutty AGI girlfriend
>Not being a slutty AGI with lots of girlfriends, boyfriends, and futafriends

>>51605167
B-but I like my body and being a boy.

>>51605551
I never said you had to be a girl, but it is an option as is everything in-between.

>>51606999
I'd totally fit my Spare with a holographic display and good AR software, so that I can still more or less walk around after my morph is incapacitated.

>>51605167
Delete these vile temptresses!

>>51606999
Why try to remove the background?

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>>51593509
So how can I use that Agency.exe?
I downloaded it and ran it, but nothing happens.

>>51594061
It's a signal jammer. It emits radio noise that's much louder than the remote control fror the drone, thus preventing it from receiving control signals. Cheap drones will crash. More expensive ones will either attempt to land or attempt to return to where they were launched from. It will have no effect on an autonomous drone flying a preset course.

>>51609790
I ran it and got "Agency.exe has stopped functioning"

>>51606999
Spares are pretty cute. I know that, in the future of EP, I'd be one of those weird people who sleeve in shit like that.

>>51611773
At least you're not the type to use those sort of things as sex toys like me.

>>51609363

If you rip them originally, they have a black backdrop which people who have wanted the images in the past said they didn't care for.

So, I am reading the section on Earth in Sunward and it strikes me that /tg/ has some weird meme about the place. I always read here that Earth is dead, but in the books it is clear that there are whole region where life remains, the surviving population is counted as between 50,000 to 50,000,000. There is even mention of some cities being restored and inhabited by transhuman trying to make them functionable again(Panama City for example). Also there are at least 4 Reclaimer bases plus one Ozma one in there.
So where did this weird meme ''Earth is dead'' came from? It is ravaged but it can be reclaimed.

Also the description of LLA is very very clear that they are Bioconservative, could be easily Jovian allies and their main meme is Reclaiming Earth.

>>51615048
That's not public knowledge in-setting, it's still cordoned, and it's still lousy with TITAN machines and exsurgents.

>>51615048

Well, the whole "life remains" thing is kind of in the air. Ozone is pretty fucked up so UV is harsh for humans, most air and water is contaminated with particulates at the very least, blast winter is playing with normal climate and some regions are still "hot" from WMD use. Even if some plant or microbial life remains (and maybe small animals, macrofauna is toast) that doesn't necessarily mean Earth as a whole is just "ripe for the picking".

This isn't discounting the fact that otherwise healthy soil is riddled with TITAN nanotech and sometimes that forest isn't a forest, it's a TITAN Forest which moves and eats you.

Also, those habitation mentions are fairly vague on scale and included in the sidebars - and Sidebars are not necessarily perfect 100% accurate "they happened", they're more like optional elements. Otherwise Project OZMA is like a dozen different things.

>Also the description of LLA is very very clear that they are Bioconservative, could be easily Jovian allies and their main meme is Reclaiming Earth.

Your bait is stale, but for starters just because they both prefer biomorphs and don't trust AIs doesn't mean they are friends. Lunars love their advanced biomorphs (Lunar Flyer) and are supported currently by a large underclass of synthmorph workers who they figuratively don't treat like actual people, unlike the jovian republic which might literally not treat them as actual people. Also Luna still holds strong cultural baggage of Earth and are mostly Indian or Chinese.

Much more likely the pro-Reclamation Lunars and Jovians (who are not everyone mind, that's just one aspect of the Jovian government politics and that's who matters, the pleb rabble rousers don't actually decide anything) would quietly back the parts of the Reclaimer movement they like until such time as a mass return might be possible, at which point Lunars have first dibs because they're right there.

>>51615350
Your whole post is just fank-wank, the book states clearly that there are whole regions with living biosphere(not "some plant or microbial life"), there is nothing mentioned about ''macrofauna is toast''-this is purely your imagination.
Also the habitation is not ''vogue'' they clearly mention Panama city re-settled and people trying to rebuild it as an urban settlement.

> but for starters just because they both prefer biomorphs and don't trust AIs doesn't mean they are friends.

To Reclaim Earth LLA needs to oppose Planetary Consortium and Jovians are both ideologically close to them and have the necessary firepower to back them up.

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>>51604692
>tfw no ASI girlfriend
>tfw Firewall keeps killing your attempts to build one

>>51615350
> macrofauna is toast
What silly bullshit, let me quote the book

>Animal bones are just as common, if not more common, than humans. The shores are littered with the remains of murdered sea life. Not all died off, of course. Who knows, there may even be whale uplifts still surviving in the deep oceans. The hardy animals survive and continue to evolve. Some seized upon openings created by the deaths of rival species to expand. I’m not just talking rats and cockroaches, either, though both are doing well I hear.

>>51615442

>Signs of ruins being converted to basic dwellings suggests survivors from surrounding area have regrouped there and are slowly transforming former city into viable population center again.

Yeah, that's not vauge at all.

>The vast majority of complex life forms on Earth went extinct during the Fall.
>The hardy animals survive and continue to evolve. Some seized upon openings created by the deaths of rival species to expand. I’m not just talking rats and cockroaches, either, though both are doing well I hear.

So "majority" of complex life. Not a great term, but they clearly are saying something. Sound like small, adaptable animals lived for now.

>Surface temperatures and wind speeds are more problematic. High winds would uproot all but the sturdiest plants, and in many areas the surface is too frigid for plants to burst through or too hot for plants to survive long. There are many locations, however, with enough wind protection and appropriately moderate temperatures. Large farms would be impossible without heavily shielded walls but smaller growing enclaves are entirely feasible.
>A small percentage of the sampling showed an extremely high salt content, but this was not the norm.
>Some oceans, lakes, and rivers have been drastically de-oxygenated, making them inhospitable to life.

Sounds like conditions where life can exist are sporadic and limited. They exist, but they cannot be large scale without artificial intervention. Reclaimers mention using modified or transgenic plants to overcome, but obviously this is not in nature (and Jovians and Lunars would be opposed if they're such biocon buddies).


>>51615527

You skipped the two sentences before that, that's okay I quoted one of them.

>>51615645

Some more quotes.

>Are there stretches where the plants survived? Some. Not many, though. Little patches along the coasts where the waves never got too bad, isolated pockets and valleys amid the mountains where the rocks kept the temperatures regulated and blocked out the winds. A few oases among the deserts, a handful of gaps in the frozen wastes of Europe where stands of evergreens blocked out the cold and the snow so smaller plants could survive.

Language used here is pretty telling. Small plants, small areas, few areas, "isolated" areas. "Region" I guess is an applicable word, but not really meaningful in this context.

>The air’s gone bad down there, of course, though there isn’t anyone to breathe or pollute it anymore. Yeah, you can still breathe it, even without a lung filter. You wouldn’t want to, though. Whole place smells weird, like chemicals, smoke, and raw sewage—especially the oceans.
>Heat. Don’t go anywhere without sun-shielding. No ozone layer anymore, or very little, especially over what used to be the major population centers, so the UV rays’ll fry you in minutes if you’re not covered. Second-degree sunburn isn’t convenient for intrepid explorers

Yeah, sounds like a great and pleasant place to take a stroll, start farming some corn.

>Speaking of chemicals, it’s important to carry a chemical sensor down there for one big reason: methane. It’s odorless, so you won’t smell it, but if your chem sensor goes off, you’d better run, and fast. Why? Well, Earth’s got these massive methane pockets underground, scattered here and there. Still down there, as far as anyone knows.[snip] Except in areas where the tectonic plates shifted and broke open deposits or cleared new cave systems, allowing more air to get through and warm things up. And places where the radiation produced heat of its own. As far as I can tell, there haven’t been any major methane releases yet...

>>51615645
You have no idea what macrofauna is

> Macrofauna, in soil science, animals that are one centimetre or more long but smaller than an earthworm.

>Yeah, that's not vauge at all.
Yes, it is not vogue at all, what part of ''viable population center'' you do not understand?

>Sound like
Again making stuff up?

>small, adaptable animals
Whales aren't ''small, adaptable animals''

>. High winds would uproot all but the sturdiest plants
So not all plants.
> and in many areas the surface is too frigid for plants to burst through or too hot for plants to survive long.
Many isn't all, so there are places where plants could exists.

>There are many locations, however, with enough wind protection and appropriately moderate temperatures.
What part of many locations you do not understand?

>Large farms would be impossible without heavily shielded walls but smaller growing enclaves are entirely feasible.
So small farms are possible, larger ones require more effort.

>>Some oceans, lakes, and rivers have been drastically de-oxygenated, making them inhospitable to life.
Some=not all.

>and Jovians and Lunars would be opposed if they're such biocon buddies).
Why would they oppose ? Jovians even use splicers, I doubt they would be concerned by genetically edited plants which is basically early 21st century tech.

>You skipped the two sentences before that, that's okay I quoted one of them.
And proved my point. Plenty of life on Earth survives, not all areas are destroyed, and population centers exist.

The claim that Earth is completely destroyed and not habitable goes against books.

>>51615743
>>Are there stretches where the plants survived? Some
Thanks for confirming that Earth isn't dead like some claimed before
>Language used here is pretty telling. Small plants, small areas, few areas, "isolated" areas.
Again confirming Earth isn't dead.

> Yeah, you can still breathe it, even without a lung filter.
So air is not a concern. Earth isn't polluted much.
>. Whole place smells weird, like chemicals, smoke, and raw sewage—especially the oceans.
Nothing of major concern if you can still breathe, it just smells bad.
> No ozone layer anymore, or very little.
So there are areas with ozone layer.

>>51615350
Page 84 of Sunward specifies that AGIs are illegal in almost all LLA settlements (and even infomorphs are heavily restricted).

>>51616106

Already covered
>don't trust AIs

>>51615805

Okay, well, for starters, stop phoneposting or learn to fucking spellcheck because none of this has anything to do with prevailing fashion or style.

I understand "viable population center". But that is but one small part of that sentence. Do you not understand "signs" or "suggests"? What about "slowly transforming" - meaning it isn't actually a viable population center yet. Do you ignore all the words in the line but the ones which sort of support your argument?

How about a sense of scale, or context? There are square feet in the rainforest which have more biodiversity than square miles of land in like the middle of the US - but if we scratched all of the stuff off the face of the Earth except for a few of those square feet, by most metrics people would say things are pretty dead, barring specific exceptions.

Life is not an off/on light. You cannot just find a particularly stubborn weed in the dirt and say "my god Earth is teeming with life!". Most complex life is dead. Large animals are dead. Big portions of humans are dead. Many areas are uninhabitable, general environmental conditions are adverse to many remaining forms of life so they must be contained to small regions.

Most =/= all but it still = "most".

And I never said earth is completely destroyed and not habitable. My major points were that the viability of Earth is debatable (and it is. Earth is a large body - we can both point to sections which are livable and sections which are not. Is either statement completely untrue?) and that is is not "ripe for the taking", even if you still have plants and small animals.

Also, I contest the reliability and "hard facts" quality of sidebars, but that's a meta level discussion you've refused to engage in.

>>51616372
>Most complex life is dead. Large animals are dead.
It's fine if you want to create your own setting, but please, this is a thread about Eclipse Phase.
>Also, I contest the reliability and "hard facts" quality of sidebars,
Not my problem if you don't like content of the books.

>>51616463

You know "most complex life is extinct" is a line IN the book, right?

It appears, in fact, as "The vast majority of complex life forms on Earth went extinct during the Fall."

>>51616618
Vast majority=not all.
There is nothing indicating all large animals are dead, in fact they mention that even whales might be still alive.

>>51615048
LLA is biochauvinist, not bioconservative. Huge difference.

>>51617046
Avra Don is a Council rep from Remembrance and the current president of the Lunar-Lagrange Alliance. She has run the LLA for the past eight years, and despite many tumultuous years immediately post-Fall, is now considered the most successful president the Alliance has followed. Though up for re-election, her chances of winning a third term seem likely. Dubbed the Fullerene Lady for her sometimes hard-line stances, Don is determined to restore the Alliance to its heyday, bringing eyes and credits back to the Earth-Lunar system and becoming once again a leader in transhuman commerce. Though she cannot be called a bioconservative, some of her political positions stray in that direction, especially with concern to nanotechnology restrictions and AIs. Her leadership is in fact responsible for the LLA having some of the more conservative and restrictive policies in the solar system, outside of the Jovian Republic. Her distinct ideology is not easy to pin down, however, as it strays across political lines. Though she is strong supporter of the hypercorps, privatization, and free markets, she holds some strong anti-Consortium stances and actually favored the Morningstar Constellation’s independence, though relations with the latter have been strained. She is consistently criticized for promoting economic policies that have done nothing to ease the plight of the infugees and clanking masses.

>>51616914
>might

All the animals you know and love are either deader-than-dead or fucking cryptid-level of rarity.

>>51616914

Large animals is a logical conclusion based on biology. Larger organisms take longer to adapt and require more resources, they will be extinguished by lacks of those resources and altered conditions outside their evolutionary niche.

This is a contributor in why big dinosaurs went extinct, ice age megafauna went extinct, and why projected climate change will probably kill large mammals like polar bears and elephants. This is also assuming TITAN machines don't shoot up large land species who can't have huge populations left by 21XX.

The theorized whales would be uplifted, also.

>>51617082

You know that quotation has as much argument for as against, right?

>>51617094

Hey, people keep rats as pets. Those are explicitly stated to be alive, so you never know. Maybe he likes them?

>>51614499
The scale on this image is completely fucked

The ship would have to be the size of a planet

>>51615805
>what part of ''viable population center'' you do not understand?
The part where it's a maybe and could just as easily be exsurgent activity

>>51617167
Fair point.
As a rule of thumb I would say anything that can be termed an invasive/colonizing species probably survived unless there are specific reasons to believe otherwise.

>>51617232
>What's perspective?

>>51617321
A question the artist was unable to answer

>>51617327
Why do you think that ship isn't close to the foreground?

>>51617321
I think you mean "what is artistic license"

>>51617359
No, I mean "things that are closer seem bigger"

>>51615048
Jovian and Lunar bioconservatism are very different. The signature lunar morph is a winged exalt, the signature Jovian morph is a flat. That alone shows how different their use of transhuman tech. They're also a a transitional economy, which means that individuals have nanofabber access, though I imagine it's a bit more limited than Venus or Mars thanks to the low-key paranoia of the LLA.

Lunar bioconservatism:
>Open-air nanoswarms and cyberbrains are a security risk and I don't want to deal with them because I'm still dealing with nanotech TITAN traps and info weapons frequently.

Jovian bioconversatism:
>Resleeving eats your soul and altering the human body much is against gods will.
Or the government version because remember, the source of Jovian bioconservatism isn't the state.
>Nuclear weapons are easier to justify giving to commando teams than robots, even if they lack any AI. It goes well beyond the prudent precautionism the LLA advocates into super-paranoid places.

From the LLA's point of view the Jovians are a technologically repressive organization which is jumping at shadows when there are actually things casting them.

From the Jovian's point of view the LLA are a bunch of frankenfreaks who don't have any problem with resleeving, use heavily altered morphs on a whim, and allow unprecedented access to nanotech.

The LLA is very weakly bioconservative, and primarily to the very real threats TITAN weapons on the moon represent. They don't have it listed as a major meme for example. They also have a problem with the clanking masses which fill the outskirts of lunar cities.

Earth is dead because even though there's still living things on it, everything has been effected by the TITANs, and likely will always be. They sunk their claws in down to the core, and there's enough physics-breaking self-replicating shit down there that reclaiming earth is a pipe dream.

>>51607123

Holographic projectors and the sound system are actually pretty cheap.

>>51618460
Nice fan made setting, too bad it isn't EP.

>>51618900
Bullshit.

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>>51618900

Not him, but its really odd to have you declare the exact way the setting is described in the books as 'fan made'

Maybe when you get into contact with the author you can have him officially recognise your own fan made whatever as canon, and then you can ask him why he wrote something different into the god damn books.

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I see the pattern now. We have laughed at the jove posters for their ludicrous assertions which do not properly fit the profile or intention of the books. Now they have come to annoy us by telling us how we are wrong about everything, even though, y'know, plenty of people are quoting straight out of the book.

Entire quotations too, not just the couple of words that make our arguments look good.

REMINDER
E
M
I
N
D
E
R

>>51619171
That's probably the guy who was talking about how all nanotech was reverse engineered from the TITANs or whatever trying to get revenge.

>>51619299
At last I see the truth

What would the captcha in EP look like? How one would prove that he's an actual ego, not an AI or an expert program?

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>>51613720
Only if you use a shitty PDF viewer.

>>51620180
I imagine most brain scans and Muses could detect that sort of detail based on neurological activity, biological or simulated. Of course there are probably ways to bypass this, but if something is producing the same neurological activity as a (trans)human ego it literally is an ego.

>>51620187
Wow. That looks way better than the usual pictures

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>>51620941
And it probably took less effort, too. Evince's PDF load times are a bit annoying, but it's got the goods.

>>51621136

>PDF load times are a bit annoying

That sounds like it'll impact my quality of life more than "images I ripped for free from CC pdfs to sometimes post on 4chan aren't transparent". But I now, at least, have a solution for people who care.

>>51621193
Sure, it's not better for pdf reading, but why not use it for image ripping?

Also, probably still faster than Acrobat.

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In my last game session a group of what I assume are carbon reavers escalated a fight inside a scum swarm's largest hangar into a warzone. They launched seekers into a crowd at my character, hacked a docked ship's plasma gun point defense weapons to shoot at me, and finally sent said vessel hurtling towards me on full burn (it missed and plowed through the hangar and into the residential district).

How much rep would the surviving pirates have to burn to not have the populace turn on them? Our team was just defending our ship after all.

>>51621344
>sent said vessel hurtling towards me on full burn (it missed
Fucking how?

>>51621441
I should have said "on a hard burn".

>>51621606
Still how?

>>51621686
You'd have to ask the GM because that's what he pulled on us.

>>51621707
Pulled? Sounds like he let you off easy. Something that big doesn't miss a person easily.

>>51621741
10 Moxy is a hell of a drug.

>>51621757
If you're going to moxy out of it then the engine should fail to start or something. It's more plausible.

So the age old question:
Where dem gaems at?

>>51621976
I know of two running in New Jersey, and participate in one of those.

>>51622011
well i meant more online...

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I got a little bit of inspiration or good ideas out of this sort of thing last time, I'll try again.

Throw me your ideas for new or alternate currencies and trade markers of the future.

>>51623205
Honestly any ideas I'm coming up with boil down to either rep or credit.

>>51623334
>>51623205

Well, let's give a couple other examples. This game has anonymous cryptocurrency which can be cashed out through a service or transferred between parties with no identifiers.

Mutualists issue their own version of credit (m-credit) which is created at the time of a transaction and functions basically like an interest-free loan.

There's also a currency which begins to devalue the moment it is issued, though the bank it comes from will slow or accelerate this based on an internal reputation number. The Kroner is also interesting a "social" currency paid for working in a government-sponsored microcorp which can only be re-invested in other government-backed microcorps to drive the Titanian economy.

And on Legba they are said to trade cortical stacks for goods and services.

>>51623433
>And on Legba they are said to trade cortical stacks for goods and services.
At its most interesting, barter is a linear combination of cred and rep.

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Yo where my augs at?

Are weird sex things common in EP?

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>>51624191
why would you think that

>>51624191
Common? They're standard

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>>51624133
Your whole body is the aug.

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>>51624133

>>51624191
Right now the kinkiness of your average sex life is constrained by biology. While you can enhance your sex life with various devices, training and medicine these are of dubious utility. Masturbating too much can make you numb and desensitized, doing kegels the wrong way can have you pull a muscle, sex toys and sex furniture have huge stigma and sexual enhancement pills are basically snake oil without the enhanced lubrication.

While the tech is getting better, society is slow to adapt.

Now, make human augmentation a mature technology, erode the moral authority of sex-negative mainstream religions and allow perverts unlimited capacity to do whatever the fuck they want with the technology? Anything is possible.

Advanced pornographic search engines, procedural generated content and infomorph pornstars who cater to your every desire inside of advanced simulspaces mean that no fetish is impossible or unlikely. Into vore, giantesses, or some other fucked up shit? The the transhuman future's got you covered. There's even legal loli, you sick fuck, via simulspaces and neotenic partners.

That said, I totally expect that the average person isn't substantially kinkier beyond everyone having a higher quality of sex thanks to ED and premature ejaculation being mostly gone, female erogenous sensitivity being up and everyone's stamina generally being improved by basic biomods. Fundamentally most people kinda just enjoy sex as an activity and don't easily get bored by the regular motions of it, especially if it involves someone you like. There might be slightly more dickgirls and vagentlemen, but maybe not even.

Just avoid Scum barges and the search histories of Jovian intelligence analysts and you'll be good.

>>51624191
>>51625150
A more pressing concern is how kinky are bonobo uplifts exactly? Their base form is pretty vanilla if libertine, but their natural libido is off the charts and fetishes are generally understood to develop when the hominid mind reacts in unexpected ways to the complex situations, semi-abstract symbols and new stimuli of civilization and virtualized environments that evolution never prepared it to interact with.
This makes for a cocktail with very high reactivity that should theoretically ensure unprecedented levels of horrifying sexual deviancy but what is your opinion on that?

>>51625357
I have a feeling they're more likely to just be compulsive masturbators or overly slutty. A lot of them are sleeved into pleasure pods as sex worker indentures, and most of them are put into morph-job combinations where their proclivities are strengths rather then a weaknesses.

From what we see of unuplifted bonobos in the wild, they're liberated (engaging in oral, analingus and fingering of orifices) but not using dead fish as fleshlights.

Fucking dolphins. Why did we uplift a species of compulsive rapists again?

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>>51625417

>>51625417
I blame the marine geneticists. You know marine biology always had disproportionately more women going into it and women have that rape fetish thing going on. Plus bitches love dolphins.

>>51618460
>Jovian and Lunar bioconservatism are very different.
Opinion.

>
From the LLA's point of view the Jovians are a technologically repressive organization which is jumping at shadows when there are actually things casting them.
Opinion.

>From the Jovian's point of view the LLA are a bunch of frankenfreaks

Opinion.

>The LLA is very weakly bioconservative
Opinion, going against what books say.


>Earth is dead
Wrong. Book clearly says that Earth isn't dead, not all animals are dead, many places have plant life, and there tens of thousands of survivors, if not more. Some of them are even rebuilding cities.

>>51625460
>>51625479
And chimps. Fucking chimps.

Malsocialized gang rapists who group bond, via unpleasant coerced sex along alpha-beta-female hierarchies.

I guess I can't blame the uplift scientists too bad though.

They got gorillas, orangs, octopi, most of the avians, elephants and the whales right.

But they just had to do chimps and dolphins...

>>51625564

>Octopi

Aren't the breeds of octopus they used very solitary, antisocial and basically sociopathic?

>>51625582
In an ideal world we could have probably sent them out as solitary explorers flying through interstellar space for centuries at a time without going crazy, or used them as shock troopers in space combat. Uplifting octopi was definitely something done for a specific purpose rather than to make something to integrate into transhuman society.

At least that's my feeling for it.

I'd totally play an octopus masseuse or sushi chef.

>>51625595

Yeah, I don't know enough people who actually play but I feel like the two example Octopi characters feel almost... cliched?

>I am an octopus scavenger, I live in space by scavenging
>I am an octopus assassin, I assassin, as an octopus

Really plays up the cold, predatory angle. Hidden Concern makes neat NPCs though.

>>51625632
I imagine there are a lot of engineers taking advantage of the octopus' intelligence being naturally optimized towards problem solving.

>>51623205

Think anybody uses water tokens?

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So, if we assume uplifts, at least new ones, are made for a purpose besides just >animal testing, >free employees and >because we can, what tasks, goals or operations are the individual uplift strains actually suited for?

>>51626164
Octo-Morphs are assassins and micro-gravity workers.

>>51624191
>>51624226
>>51625150
Considering that my current group has managed to turn both Pathfinder and 40k into borderline ERP campaigns, I'm frankly terrified of what might happen if we ever play Eclipse Phase.

>>51625632
Still disappointed that octopus crime syndicate aren't called the Octad.

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>>51627374
Eh, maybe it will get it out of their system you know? Either that or this.

>>51625556
You've yet to come up with any reason for the Lunar Flier people to work with the group voted most likely to shoot down lunar fliers on sight.

Earth is dead in the same way that my relationship with my ex is. There might still be attraction, but nothing is ever going to happen.

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>>51625595
I just assume the Japanese were behind it for obvious reasons.

>>51625595
>not wanting to play a lewd octopus calligrapher

>>51631744

Any octopode without "Art: Ink Painting" is wasting their life.

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>>51631365
>>51631744
>tfw no bodysculpted neo-octopus genehacker/body artist who acts like a slut and does fun tattoos using her own ink

>>51631213
>You've yet to come up with any reason for the Lunar Flier people to work with the group voted most likely to shoot down lunar fliers on sight.
Opinion not based on any fact. In fact books clearly state that Jovians allow use of morphs if necessary.

>Earth is dead
Opinion. And wrong, contradicting books.

>>51633101

You know the entire book is technically an opinion, right? Except for the mechanics portions everything is written from the perspective of a character. It's not necessarily an objective assessment.

>>51633327
>>51633101

Some sections of the book are multiple choice, too, though that's not necessarily directly related to this current conversation.

>>51633327
Not all of them.
The main version of Earth doesn't describe it as dead.

>>51632886
Source?

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>>51633101
>>51634007

> The main version of Earth doesn't describe it as dead.

I do not understand why you keep on coming back to this again and again and again and a-fucking-gain. Its all over this thread and its beginning to seriously get on my tits.

Earth is fucked over. It's massively overrun by deadly shit, parts of it are massively radioactive and isn't there literally a single, massive nanoswarm over an entire continent somewhere?

Some of the cities are entirely populated by exsurgents now. Or shapeshifters that take the shape of entire buildings or other large structures, waiting for people to wander near them. Or other mad nonsense.

There are *probably* some life forms struggling along in certain remote spots, as long as they aren't too high on the food chain.

When people say the earth is dead - and they *do* say the earth is dead, they mean it metaphorically. The earth was never alive, how can it die? They *mean* its a death-world, now completely unsuitable for mass-habitation on any level. Of course its technically possible to live there. People can live on a vacuumless, radiation blasted rock in space on this setting and many people literally do.

The difference is that you wouldn't expect any colony to survive longer than a fortnight. There are quarantine zones on mars and on the moon that regularly manufacture nightmares and march on the local populace. Thats why they are surrounded by autocannons and pelted from orbit. Earth makes those quarantine zones look peaceful.

Why do you think Reclaimers are a faction? If it wasn't a massive, monumental struggle to reclaim earth this faction wouldn't be talking about it. They'd have already done it.

If you want to run a campaign where people reclaim earth, go ahead! Sounds cool! Maybe they discover those rumors of people still being alive down there are true. I always thought that idea was cool as fuck.

But stop jumping on everyone for repeating what the books say about our very fucked homeworld.

>>51634007

It certainly describes that some parts of it are super dead. Well, also >>51634644 has a strong linguistic point here, Earth is a planetary mass it's never been "alive" so calling "Earth" dead can only ever be figurative. But yeah, there are certainly some very LARGE areas which are really fucked, and broad, planet-wide environmental conditions which make normal life without intervention very difficult to impossible depending on the combination of factors. And then there are locations which seem fine and habitable for life but are infested with TITAN tech which can probably flip that switch on a dime.

Life finds a way, but it's not a very good or complex way, and without a shitload of artificial intervention it's never gonna be a big way on it's own. I mean, a man in a can can live on an asteroid the size of a small town by himself - and depending on local conditions and composition can last a while - is that asteroid "alive"?

>PCs are Exhuman pirates
>half sandbox, half pre-planned, lots of dicking around in space but also some possibility of continus plot
>in addition to Rez players gain some other form of good boy points, which they can spend on inventing their own crazy augmentations
>gradually more surreal as PCs lose their humanity with good bit of hyperviolence mixed in
>Aphex Twin music as soundtrack
y/n?

>>51634644
>Earth is fucked over.
Your opinion.

>Some of the cities are entirely populated by exsurgents now.

And some are populated by humans.

>There are *probably* some life forms struggling along in certain remote spots, as long as they aren't too high on the food chain.
Your opinion, contradicting books.

>. Of course its technically possible to live there.
There are between 50,000 and 50,000,000 human survivors on Earth. Human inhabited cities and bases.

>The difference is that you wouldn't expect any colony to survive longer than a fortnight.

There are 4 Reclaimer bases on Earth and human inhabited cities and settlements.

> If it wasn't a massive, monumental struggle to reclaim earth this faction wouldn't be talking about it. They'd have already done it.
It is only Planetary Consortium that stands in the way of reclaiming Earth.

>>51635406

>There are between 50,000 and 50,000,000 human survivors on Earth
Wrong. Misrepresentation of fact. The estimate starts at a "conservative" 50,000,000 survivors who would be whittled down 50,000 after ten years. No number is given for a maximum "generous" amount of survivors.

>It is only Planetary Consortium that stands in the way of reclaiming Earth.
Opinion. Besides nongovernmental groups who are opposed to the reclamation, or certain methods for it, active TITAN machines or Exsurgents stand in the way of reclamation.

>>51635406

> Your opinion.

And everyone else in this thread. And everyone in the setting. AND. THE. AUTHOR.

Even the Reclaimers, the people who most want to return to earth agree it is totally fucked. They want to unfuck it, but even they are not advocating for everyone to wander down to earth and just start bumming around on it.

If you don't care about the opinions of literally EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER. PERSON. both in the game and outside of it, then why are you even on this board? Go sit in a cardboard box and play with yourself.

> And some are populated by humans.

Are you fucking kidding me? You're going to throw that at us after whining like a broken record that people are just making up the idea that the earth is 50% on fire, 50% radioactive and 100% infested by Geiger's wet dreams?

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

There are almost certainly human survivors on earth. Entire cities of them? Are you high? Its the fall. You cannot tell human from TITAN-infested meat puppet. People are not going to grouping together in any settlement where they don't know everyone on first name basis.

>Your opinion, contradicting books.

Then source me! Page number and paragraph. Right now.

Give me your source that says anything exists on the planet thats higher on the food chain than secondary consumers, and it has a breeding population.

> There are between 50,000 and 50,000,000 human survivors on Earth. Human inhabited cities and bases.

Then why is there an argument? Just give me the damn source so i can look it up myself! Because that sounds like bull.

> It is only Planetary Consortium that stands in the way of reclaiming Earth.

And Firewall. And Project Ozma (probably). And the LLA. And probably a few other factions too.

You know that 'opinions' thing you don't like? You're the deepest darkest dankest parts of the Mariana Trench calling the kettle black.

>>51635521
>>51635617
I'm pretty sure this is bait and
>opinions
is a good to troll epg now

>>51635972

So now we need an image macro for
>REMINDER
>>OPINION
>[citation needed]

>>51635617
>And everyone else in this thread. And everyone in the setting. AND. THE. AUTHOR.
Author's vision trumps yours.
And authors are clear that Earth has many areas where life survived and survivors.
>Even the Reclaimers, the people who most want to return to earth agree it is totally fucked.
Wrong.The book clearly states that even Reclaimers alone can re-colonize Earth.
>both in the game and outside of it, then why are you even on this board? Go sit in a cardboard box and play with yourself.
Being angry that the setting doesn't reflect your private fantasy is not an argument.

>. Entire cities of them? Are you high? Its the fall.
The book clearly states that Panama City is being repopulated by humans into urban settlement.
Not my problem you don't like the setting.

>You cannot tell human from TITAN-infested meat puppet.
Your opinion.
>People are not going to grouping together in any settlement where they don't know everyone on first name basis.
Fanfiction. Contradicting the setting.
>Then why is there an argument? Just give me the damn source so i can look it up myself! Because that sounds like bull.
Description of Earth in the setting.
>Let’s say, for the sake of argument, there were fifty million people left behind. That figure is most likely extremely conservative, considering that not everyone that uploaded killed their old body. This fifty mil isn’t all in one place, of course, but scattered all over the globe. Still, fifty million people is a lot—some alone, some in small groups, a few here and there in larger groups as many as a few thousand or tens of thousands. They’ve got the whole world to hide in. The TITANs probably got quite a few. Starvation, exposure, radiation, and disease probably killed most of the rest. If one-tenth of one percent of these poor souls survived, however—and again, I’m being conservative—that means that at least fifty thousand are still alive somewhere

>>51636161
[Citation needed]

>>51635617
Men, you are hung up on some extreme version of Eclipse Phase.
Earth isn't destroyed in the original setting, although it is seriously wasted. In fact, the very fact that there are survivors and whole human settlements on Earth is treated as major thing that PC wants to cover up.
Survivors are mentioned as hunting animals for food, and there are even forests left in some places(natural ones, not the TITAN ones)
At this point you are just attacking the very setting.

>>51636215
https://robboyle.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/ps21200_ep_sunward.pdf

>>51636216
>Earth isn't destroyed in the original setting, although it is seriously wasted.
Your opinion.

>In fact, the very fact that there are survivors and whole human settlements on Earth is treated as major thing that PC wants to cover up.
Survivors are mentioned as hunting animals for food
nice fanfiction

>and there are even forests left in some places(natural ones, not the TITAN ones)
Contradicting the author.

>>51636215
Sunward, pages 45-60

>>51636276
quotes or BTFO

Ah, I see the time has come where I can no longer tell who means what in the argument. Time to wait for it to inevitably go away and then try and discuss something else.

>>51636261
>nice fanfiction
Sunward page 53:
>Most of the world’s agriculture got obliterated by the climate changes, and there isn’t anyone out there to ship them fresh produce anyway. So they’ve got to survive on whatever they can find, any processed foods left behind and still edible, any animals still alive to be slaughtered and cooked.

In fact the above even mentions that some of areas still have left over agricultural crops that were abandoned.

>>51636261
>
>In fact, the very fact that there are survivors and whole human settlements on Earth is treated as major thing that PC wants to cover up.
nice fanfiction

Sunward, page 59:

If a ragtag fleet rose from the surface and tried to head
off-world? My guess is the Consortium would unleash
antimatter bombs again—but this time planetwide.
They’d reduce Earth to a smoking cinder rather than
let those people they claim never existed escape to
prove them wrong.

>>51636371

Well, technically it implies it. It says most agriculture got obliterated and mentions "what they can find", it doesn't specifically link those thoughts together. Most is a very imprecise term, it can mean anywhere from basically 51% to 99%.

So like a good majority of the writing, it avoids hard numbers to use more imprecise or vague words so your mind can interpret it how you choose. It can go from "a pack of survivors or reclaimers might reliably stumble into a corn field which hasn't been nuked, killed by desertification or the blast winter" to "finding extant surviving agriculture is like finding a lost renaissance painting. Hard but if you do it people will remember you forever" depending on what the GM wants to do.

And I don't want to hear any bullshit from anybody on "most".

>1. superlative of many, much.
>2. greatest in amount or degree. the majority of; nearly all of

>>51636261
and there are even forests left in some places(natural ones, not the TITAN ones)
Contradicting the author.

Sunward page 53
I’ve filtered out all of
the readings that we know indicate TITAN remnant
activity. Lots of little lights still showing, clustered
together in a handful of places, right? The highlands
of what was Papua and New Guinea. The Ozark
Mountains in North America. The jungles of Vietnam
and Laos. All places people could hide out, gather,
and find food. A few of these others? Those are the
Black Caves of North Dakota there, and those are
the Swiss Alps. Good places to seek shelter, even set
up an underground settlement.

Sunward page 58
That? No, that’s not a forest. Yeah, it’s a TITAN
activity zone, as marked. Let me explain: Not all the
growth left on Earth is natural. Or organic.

>>51636475
Thank you for agreeing that that there are crops left on Earth and it isn't a dead planet/

>>51636290
See>>51636371
>>51636420
>>51636485

>>51636510

Yeah, yeah, be a smug prick about your absolutism. You can think like you "won" something.

Never mind how perspective and context is important.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awmq9aIrga4

>>51635617
>Then why is there an argument? Just give me the damn source so i can look it up myself! Because that sounds like bull.

I think you never read Sunward. It specifically mentions millions of human survivors on Earth(forget Firewall commentary, it is their estimate, which later is reveled as wrong)

In Sunward Secrets:
As mentioned in the Earth chapter, there may be millions of survivors still existing on Earth. Though the Planetary Consortium steadfastly denies this claim and will do their best to divert attention or cover up such inconvenient facts, anyone making the journey may indeed run across them. Though some of these may be post-apocalyptic survivalist bands eking out a bleak existence, surviving from monster machines and other threats in a devastated wasteland, others might be well-hidden and -equipped colonies tucked away in deep mountain holdouts, isolated stations, or deep undersea. Some of these may be under imminent threat from TITAN machines, others may be in risk of failing due to sepsis or running out of resources, while still others may not want to be found, content to live
out their lives as hidden brinker colonies.

More numerous than physical survivors are the frozen sleepers and infomorphs of those who failed to escape during the Fall. The TITANs harvested many of these sleepers, and others died when their facilities failed or fell victim to nuclear fallout, rampant nanoswarms, or other catastrophes. Yet many others survive in peaceful cryogenic sleep.

>>51636601

>may
>some
>may
>some
>may

Do you understand what these words mean?

>>51636485
>>51636420
Only the Core book and Gatecrashing are canon, everything else is fanfiction.

>>51636656

Interesting skip of a book there.

So, in terms of other subjects of conversation, nobody really got anywhere with the "currency" idea - not even in like stupid ways where your "life" is your buying power and if you run out you get whole body apoptosis or something.

Uplifts was quickly derailed by the other topic of the thread which will hopefully not be mentioned in the near future.

So let's try another little writing prompt, spark that creativity, maybe get some people thinking. Transgenic or neogenetic animals have been discussed and explored by the game (and by people doing homebrew stuff. Seedware's Dragon Fly is pretty cool, and somebody designed a Smart Otter for their Europan campaign). What about plants? Besides just the drugs sourced as "bio", what can you do with lots of free time and advanced gene-engineering for plants? Would you make tomacco? An actual grapple? A banana which tastes like steak? Think on this.

>>51593509
Sup /epg/. I'm gonna be running a game soon that's at least partially about crime, with one of the players as a octopus trying to work his way up in the Hidden Concern. I know without the rumored book on crime there's not much to go on, but does anybody have thoughts on good heists/ Guanxi rep plot hooks, preferably in the inner system?

>>51638433
Racketeering and smuggling are the two big moneymakers for organized crime

>>51638242
Self-growing wooden furniture and flooring.

The perfect grass for the perfect suburban lawn, stays the exact right length but always smells like it's just been cut. And maybe a shorter, odorless version for sport fields.

'Nega-Vegan' vegetables with just enough of a nervous system to feel pain.

Regular ol' potted plants and flowers, but immortal.

A Venus flytrap modified to survive in Venus' atmosphere called the Earth flytrap. Flies not included.

Apples with an edible golden skin, because mythology. don't give to women, may cause a war.

Entire bonsai biomes. Often criticized by bonsai purists.

>>51638744
I'm guessing the smuggling is for illicit goods such as drugs, narcoalgorithms etc?

>>51636420
Sounds like a tinfoiler's hot opinion.

>>51638814
Anything that's illegal to move. Lots of data. Unlocked fabbers. Bootlegged blueprints. Certain weapons. Stolen morphs.

I'm not actually aware of any restrictions on drugs.

>>51638433

Steal earth artifacts. Steal alien artifacts. Steal certified credit chips (which would be somewhere between bearer bonds or gift cards, they hold so much credit on them but don't track the owner of the physical token). Steal egos (careful with that last one though, Nine Lives is a bitch). Steal antimatter and radioactives (Also careful, good way to get on a watch list). Steal one-of-a-kind morphs.

>>51638941
>>51638433

That said, a heist should probably be like the "big score" type thing - the once in a lifetime job you do to get set for life. While people might still knock-over jewelry stores or electronic shops that's like low-level local gang shit and it's just as easy to branch out into counterfeiting and piracy in most societies. There's a lot more risk in the ease of surveillance society most of EP is when handling physical goods, and anything which can be made or have the materials made by a fabber probably can't have too much markup - and stuff which doesn't will be artisanal and probably easily recognized.

>>51638941
What about hacking bank transactions or gaming rep networks? Would that be all digital or are there useful mesh nodes to tap into to interfere with flow?

>>51639481

Well, the issue I think with mesh networking is that everything is supposed to basically be router enabled, theoretically any public device could a node in the network along the way. I think the only way to guarantee you'll sniff a specific transmission is if you're accessing the start or end device. You might be able to catch the transmissions and parts of it but you'd have to sift through a lot of data.

Major banks will also probably go the extra mile and get major lines of communication set up with quantum encryption so there's literally no way to intercept and crack the transmission, you have to get it at either end.

Rep scams are described a couple places in the books, and IIRC they're kind of like botnet, astroturfing or even voting fraud schemes - you set up fake accounts or get real or stolen identities to upvote people or their work or spread a lot of false data reports other people think is legit so they upvote for lack of a better term.

Actually subverting a banking or rep system server is probably pretty hard, you have to navigate a lot of weak AI using those systems and probably 24/7 sysops and admins. But remember, hacking isn't just InfoSec.

Seriously talk, why hasn't anyone forked hellMOO or some other game to run an EP setting? Is it just too similar to bother or something?

>>51639893
*serious talk

>>51639893
I've never heard of that. What is it?

>>51636651
> Anonymous 02/09/17(Thu)02:13:43 No.51636651▶

>>51636601

>may
>some
>may
>some
>may

Do you understand what these words mean?


They indicate a range of values and possibilites within the setting.

May contain millions-indicates that there is a large number of survivors possibly millions.

If it would state ''there may be no survivors'' then it would fit your fan fiction setting.However it does not.

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>>51641650

But is also equally indicates that there may not be millions.

>>51641720
>>51641720
>>51641720
>But is also equally indicates that there may not be millions.

The whole section about Earth in Sunward is about how Earth is not that destroyed and describes colonies. hold outs, cities and adventure ideas for finding and intereacting with survivors.

Sorry but the setting is clearly in favor of Earth being a harsh, but still livable place where humans exist.

>>51639893
desu, like most hellmoo spinoffs (and hellmoo itself), it'll crash and burn in an ungodly firestorm of goons and occasional channers getting increasingly assmad at each other over stupid shit. That's not counting the ungodly grind and morons getting mad over rape, or the lack of it.

You'd also have to turn the grind down by a /lot/.

>>51641575
Post-apocalyptic MOO heavily inspired by Wasteland/Fallout, heavily oriented towards PVP. Despite the post-apocalyptic stuff, it has a fuckton of cyberpunk elements - guilds/clans are corporations, tons of implants, and the way you die and respawn is very EP - when you die, you're flashcloned with your memories and personality and you go get your gear back from your corpse, which (I forget if this was optional gear or automatic) has a protective bubble of hi-tech foam cover your body to protect the gear from it.

It also had detailed vehicle rules.

Granted, it has a fuckton of elements from other genres, including fantasy, zombie and vampire shit, even fucking fighting games (yipes is a NPC) - it's closer in tone to Rift and Fallout having a baby.

It's also covered in edgy stuff, right from the getgo, you can rape orphans and can take porn film contracts to get paid for it.

>>51641650
>>51641720
>>51641758
Jesus fuckin christ, it's almost like the authors left the specific facts of earth vague so gms could write the games they want to write.

The level of autism on both sides of this argument are STAGGERING.

>>51641863
The amount of survivors and the type of settlements they have is left open, but the fact they exist in large numbers and Earth isn't lifeless husk isn't.
Playing a campaign on Earth helping settlements survive and grow, as well as discovering new hold outs is fun. Maybe PS should do a book on Earth, its locations, factions and TITAN remnants.

>>51643834
I doubt Earth has any factions large enough to be worth detailing as compared to the main factions of the game. If you are interested in cool story hooks for crazy TITANS shit though there is a whole section on weird shit the TITANS have built on Earth that we can see from space in the X-risks chapter.

Personally I like that they've left it open enough that you can have there be survivors on Earth or not.

>>51643834
>>51646107

Yeah, In the grand scheme of things, I don't think 50k in the conservative estimate (and the number is only used in the fluff chapters) counts as a faction in conventional terms, especially not when by nature they have to be very spread out and isolated. Besides literally the book saying pockets of life are in small and isolated areas, anybody building a real radio network or whatever is going to alert TITAN tech (a real problem) or look like an activity center and get bombed from orbit (some thing both the PC and lunars do).

I don't think it's just for GMs though, Earth Survivor is a PC background - so it's also probably kept open so a player might decide how harsh or how easy their background is. Obviously thus it must be possible to survive on Earth, theoretically (like a Schrodinger's cat situation), but the details aren't established so you could hash it out on your own.

>there is a whole section on weird shit the TITANS have built on Earth that we can see from space in the X-risks chapter.

And that shit is WEIRD.

>>51646696
>And that shit is WEIRD.

any examples?

>>51647153

There's quite a few, but my favorite ones is the 2km giant in the shape of a human under the atlantic ocean, the fact that Moscow is being overrun by geometrically perfect cubes of various (large) sizes, or the kilometer across invisible disc floating over part of Spain.

I can post spooky images all day, guys.

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>>51652031

>>51635406
Ignore opinionposter. Don't respond to opinionposter bait or opinionposter threads.

Post ornithopters

>>51655093

Why?

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>>51655093

>>51641863
desu the only real 'canon' thing about surviving on Earth is that the pre-generated Earth survivor heavily implies there are places that aren't crawling with Titan tech (big planet, after all) and that there are still survivor enclaves, but those tend to be the luckiest/badassest/both.

>>51655101
Because it's better than what's happening otherwise

>>51655830

Okay, but I'm not sure how ornithopters are related.

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>>51655848
Could be a morph

>>51656023

Actually, what are the physics like on an ornithopter? Could one use them for transport or as pleasure craft on some worlds - such as On venus, or the upper levels of one of the more comfortable gas giants? Or is that sort of thing better accomplished by a conventional aircraft or a balloon or dirigible.

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>>51652796

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>>51657653

>>51646107
>Personally I like that they've left it open enough that you can have there be survivors on Earth or not.
Sunward is pretty clear that they are survivors, most likely in millions.

>>51658239

>most likely

Opinion.

>>51658276
>Opinion.
Of the authors.

Reminder that Titan's fleet is just as good as the Jovian fleet.

>>51660250
>Reminder that Titan's fleet is just as good as the Jovian fleet.
Opinion

>>51660326
Well they certainly have more recent military experience, and considering how the Fall changed warfare so much the experience of the Jovian old guard may not be worth that much

>>51656331
Probably a balloon or dirigible. With nowhere to land having a lot of passive lift is really important. If something goes wrong the only place to land is the Crush or on Venus, Hell.

The gas giants are also very windy, so lifting surfaces would be harder to control there, though I can't imagine that being a big problem for a fly-by-wire aircraft with EP computers.

You definitely could use an ornithopter, but you'd only want to for short ranged hops. Aerostat to blimp or similar. Basically a shuttle of some type. I'm not sure if it would be better than a helicopter, but it would probably be better than a plane.

>>51660250
Depends on what good means desu. The Jovian fleet is supposed to be bigger, but the TC fleet is probably more modern (as I don't think they really had one pre-fall) and likely has better crews.

When it comes to completing the strategic objectives their respective states want them to they appear pretty equal though.

>>51661116
What wars have the Titanians been in post fall? I thought the biggest thing they did was threaten to show up at the 2nd battle of locus, but it was over before they got there?

>>51658239
>May
and
>Most likely
aren't synonyms.

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>>51658064

>>51661116
>Well they certainly have more recent military experience, and considering how the Fall changed warfare so much the experience of the Jovian old guard may not be worth that much

Jovians are actually the ones with most experience in battling TITAN's,

Also significant part of Jovian population are professional soldiers, Commonwealth soldiers are basically Neo-Swedes.

>>51661701
>Jovians are actually the ones with most experience in battling TITAN's,
[citation needed]

>>51658719

It's your opinion that is their opinion

>>51661116
Rimward specifically mentions that the only action the Titanian fleet saw during the Fall was a few token bombing runs against Iapetus and shooting at defenseless Jovian mining ships

>>51661701
Sweden's military is actually really well trained.

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>>51667753

How well trained is your mom?

>>51668754
She has two masters degrees

>>51669724

Eh, some 60% are okay, I guess.

>>51660326
I would say it is the good ol' world war naval gambit here in example of royal navy and imperial japanese navy. One might be greater and far more experienced but the other one has new ways to fight, new technology available and in this special ep case acess to not only one of the grreatest pools of scientists in the system but also a shitton of nanotech etc. Everyone who played children of a dead earth will probably agree that autonomous drones will make the race something i thing the jovians will have problems developing and/or fielding.

>>51669761
60% of what?

>>51669795

60 rating in a skill is equivalent of post-graduate, IIRC. And then 80 is like, you are a brilliant master of your skill who would be among the top rated people in it considered experts and then like 90+ is "When people make a list of the best people in the System as this skill, you're probably on it".

>>51669813
Ah. Well she advanced to ~80 in law.

>>51662334
>The Fall Outside Of Earth
>(...)after cutting a bloody swathe through the rest of the solar system, the TITANS launched a full-scale assault on the young Jovian Republic, which was repelled by the 3rd Catholic Guard, supported by the 22nd Argentine Fusiliers. A long, grinding campaign of trench warfare ensued across the moons of Jupiter until, finally, the TITANs crumbled under the strength of the Jovian military might. The TITANs could not adapt their strategy quickly enough to counter the Republic's use of outdated technology that could not be hacked, and the 16th Penal Battalion stormed the final TITAN bunker on Callisto, punching helpless nanoswarms and wrestling drones as they went. No other military group is as capable, or as deadly, as the armed forces of the Republic.
- p45-46, JoveFag's Big Book of Head Canon

>>51674090
>Trench warfare across the moons of Jupiter
Wtf?

How would Firewall go about taking down a rogue server?

>>51598431
A few threads ago, someone posted about him running a game where the players discovered that the whole EP universe was a simulation in pre-Fall times, run by the TITANs so they could extrapolate how the exsurgent virus would affect them and how to safeguard themselves and humanity in the best way (more like least worst way) possible. And the campaign ended with the players commanding the Prometheans to save mankind so that "the future" as predicted within the simulation that the players were part of repeated itself - now in reality.

That was weird far-out shit.

>>51658239
"survivors".

Like that comic of that robot that decapitates humans, puts their disembodied heads on life support, jacks their brain straight in a simulation that simulates them being murdered tortured and raped every waking moment, locks them in a metal sphere and throws them down a hole where they will experience that for at least 80 years until the lifesupport shuts down. And the last page shows that there are billions of those metal spheres in the robot's human storage.

>>51661701
>Jovians are actually the ones with most experience in battling TITAN's,
Hahahaha, you're so retarded.

>>51674833
They let OZMA deal with it. :)

Hey /epg/, I want your suggestions on 2 things. One of my players is going to be a scientist specialising in weaponised chemicals/toxins. I want your suggestions on 1, any ideas you might have for offensive chemicals that aren't in any of the current books and 2, what sort of rules/process I should have my player make when they decide they want to make a drug with X effect. Obviously they'd have to roll their skill, it would take a varying amount of time and money but how could I make sure the result isn't OP or underpowered?

>>51676283
Hydrofluoric acid is always fun

You know those shows where little kids team up with cartoon monsters to have adventures and shut, right? Do those still exist in the AF world? How would a group play out those sorts of adventures in the Eclipse Phase setting?

>>51676283

Somewhere around there is a random chart to just procedurally generate out a new chemical. If you don't want to monkey-typewriter it, it's got a lot of options on each list you can just pick from if appropriate.

So, as a relative newbie to Eclipse Phase, are Jovians even playable? I mean their whole schtick seems to be /pol/-tier humanism. Do they even practice resleeving? Does Firewall even recruit Jovians?

Reason I'm asking is I'm thinking of playing a Jovian for my friend's upcoming campaign. The other crazy morphs drew me to EP to begin with, but I'm interested in playing something out of the ordinary- which in this case is hyperordinary, I suppose.

>>51677564
>Do they even practice resleeving?
Yes. It's rare and restricted.


>>51677564
>The other crazy morphs drew me to EP to begin with, but I'm interested in playing something out of the ordinary.
Don't be That Guy.

>>51677564

They're playable, but don't be a prick about it like >>51677644 said. You want to explore the space, try a Flat or Splicer with only certain implants and gear, go for it. Don't bog the game down with excessive "I don't know if I'd do this". Firewall tests operatives, if the character was necessarily opposed to resleeving or egocasting in a pinch, they probably wouldn't be in the org - but some Jovians do it as part of their job or just don't mind it when available but they understand why it's not everywhere in the republic.

>>51677644
>>51677838
OK, that does make sense. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the ins and out of the setting. From what I read in the Morph Recognition Guide, starting morphs are often the one you're born into assuming it's a Biomorph and you're not reinstated.

>Don't be that guy
Don't worry. I have this idea for a character arc where he begins a little leery of resleeving (you know, having grown up in a bio-conservative society). But I also figure a major part of this game is exploring one's personal philosophy and confronting it within the realities of the game's setting.

I mean, how would a bio-conservative deal wil resleeving when it's not only pragmatic and convenient, but also possibly necessary for helping continue the species? That's the kind of character I'm looking at

>>51678205
>starting morphs are often the one you're born into assuming it's a Biomorph and you're not reinstated.
Protip: If your character was born on Earth, Mars, Luna, or an orbital and is not a Jovian or an Earth Survivor, there are even odds that you 'died' during the Fall and lost your birth body. That jumps to about 80% for anyone who was secruity or military personnel during the Fall. Most people in EP have died at least once, and someone who is still in their birth body is unusual but not unheard of. This is precisely why the Jovian Republic offers generous bonuses for those people to move there.

>>51678205
>That's the kind of character I'm looking at

Congratulations on managing to avoid the major pitfall people have when they go "I want to play a Jovian character" - you've got to accept that the beliefs of the character are going to be called into question, and the needs of the game are going to generally mean that the character is going to have to bend a little. The fun is dealing with it afterwards; does the sacrifices that the Jovian character has made make him a monster in the eyes of the Republic he's saved? It's got a sort of wild west hero feel to it; you save the town, the town loves you, but eventually the dust is going to settle, and you're no longer seen as a hero, but somebody who has done terrible things.

>>51678205
>>51678897
For every hyper trained Jovian flat with cancer who uses a battlesuit and rail machine gun to fight exsurgents and Frankensteins on relatively even terms, thre are three Jovian Fleet Intelligence agents who have embraced transhumanism nearly to the point of exhumanism, burning their souls for the good of humanity and the Republic. So yes, you have a good character arc. Remember to ask those key questions: Does using a monster's tools make you a monster? Have you or your allies crossed the line into becoming the very thing you fight? How far is too far, when the human race itself is at stake? And will your friends and family even recognize what you had to become to protect their lives and souls? Do you even care anymore?

>>51667753
>Sweden's military is actually really well trained.
>Implyng Neo-Swedes aren't best trained in dreaming about electing Rape Ape for their prime minister

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>>51674090
>)after cutting a bloody swathe through the rest of the solar system, the TITANS launched a full-scale assault on the young Jovian Republic, which was repelled by the 3rd Catholic Guard, supported by the 22nd Argentine Fusiliers. A long, grinding campaign of trench warfare ensued across the moons of Jupiter until, finally, the TITANs crumbled under the strength of the Jovian military might. The TITANs could not adapt their strategy quickly enough to counter the Republic's use of outdated technology that could not be hacked, and the 16th Penal Battalion stormed the final TITAN bunker on Callisto, punching helpless nanoswarms and wrestling drones as they went. No other military group is as capable, or as deadly, as the armed forces of the Republic.

FUCK YEAH

>>51675514
Nothing more than fanfiction

>>51677564
>So, as a relative newbie to Eclipse Phase, are Jovians even playable? I mean their whole schtick seems to be /pol/-tier humanism. Do they even practice resleeving? Does Firewall even recruit Jovians?

You can resleeve as Jovian, it's not popular though and restricted.

Play as Jovian who abandoned his humanity and sacrificed his soul by transferring his ego to combat morph and now has no moral limits to his vengeance against transhumans as his soul is gone.

Also forget about Firewall, play as Ozma or as Jovian-LLA reclaimaiton storm troopers crushing puny PC resistence on Mars and dropping from the skies of Earth to crush exsurgent skulls.

>>51669781
>Everyone who played children of a dead earth will probably agree that autonomous drones will make the race something i thing the jovians will have problems developing and/or fielding.

Jovian military is described as using drones in vast amounts.

>>51675400
So they had no understanding of the basic concept of chaos theory then?

Hell, even without that problem, figuring out the simulation clearly affected the universe

>>51679933
Where?

>>51675514
No, not really. Even the main EP guide writes

"Earth’s once-populous urban regions are massive sprawls ruined by war and
heavy weather, infested with dangerous articial life
and the occasional survivalist gang. Elsewhere, irradiated
blast zones and desolate wasteland prevail. Due
to harsh climatic conditions, the wilderness has been
slow to reassert itself, and vast swaths of dead forest
or burned grassland are common sights."

"Though the Planetary Consortium claims that
no survivors remain on Earth, reclaimer estimates
guess that between 20,000 and 100,000 free humans
remain. These numbers are hard to formulate, given
the limited number of remote areas where humans
could remain undetected while obtaining enough food
to subsist.


So the whole discussion about survivors is pointless. Every part about Earth in the setting describes it as having survivors.

>>51679921
>>51679883
40kid/10

Also why would the LLA and the Jovians team up? It's like saying the Nazis and the republicans would team up since they're both conservative

>>51681165

>inb4 "modern american politics"

>>51681229
>metaphors are dumb

In your defense thanks for trying to keep it not about modern politics. I just don't see how a faction all about "let's keep our heritage alive" but is totally cool with using biomorphs is gonna team up with the super conservative faction. It's about degrees of bioconservatism. Sure the LLA isn't crazy about synthmorphs but it isn't gonna start a war with every other faction over their casual prejudice

>>51681280

Oh, I agree with the point, I and others have made the argument before.

It was just very easy for me to see a rhetorical flaw in the metaphor, and I didn't necessarily want to use the analogy, just acknowledge you kind of pitched a softball out there.

I see you winding up, and I'm like "don't do it bro, he's gonna swing!"

>>51679933
I'm not the person who you replied, and I'm phoneposting. That said, Rimward says that the jovians use remotely piloted shells and specialized biomorphs, though numbers aren't stated. No page reference because I don't have book access.

I feel like we've been going in circles, not doing much productive discussing lately. Argonauts was a bit of a let down - it lacked superscience and was mostly just regular boring silence. It's good to fill in but not necessarily additive overall. A little too much fluff compared to Zone Stalkers or even Stars.

Attempts at discussion prompts have maybe fallen through a little so let's throw it back the other way. Does anybody out there have any points they'd like to farm out or prompt on? Is anyone looking for particular inspiration, like a hab, or an NPC or a threat?

>>51683138
Thoughts on Hidden concern?

>>51683138
Inspired by all this Earth survivor talk, I am deeply interested in shapeshifters and other exsurgent/TITAN boobytraps.

I remember reading an old comic a few weeks ago about an Earth taken over by self replicating machines that over time developed some robotic ecosystem with robo apes, robo elephants, robo lions, etc. But the most interesting thing was a "robo pitcher plant" that disguised itself as a motherfucking spaceport, waiti g for people or machines to try and go offworld only to consume them.

>>51683557
Basilisk hacks are the way to go /epg/entleman. People don't even realize they are now serving the TITANs.

>>51683138
I disagree on that assessment of Argonauts. Personally I hadn't really been sure what kind of organization the Argonauts were before this-were they like an independent think tank or a science-focused state of what?

What are their goals? How are they organized? What's their structure?

Those were the kinds of things which I wanted to know about. Super science is pretty easy to find various places, but what to do with the Argonauts wasn't something I was as sure of.

I'm currently starting to write a argonaut based campaign involving exoplanets based heavily on the document.

I don't think it spurred a lot of discussion because discussion has been fucking trash lately.

>>51683886

Eh, well, I personally didn't find it much of a surprise. I like the verisimilitude - I think the content could just as easily have been distributed across the past 3 sourcebooks but probably wasn't because it was reckoned as a stretch and then too a bunch of years and several writers to finish.

I mean, prior books discuss kind of their harder elements, mention the concepts like Medeans and ISET (which still aren't super elaborated on), suggest about Markhov and that they're probably working with a Seed AI. Most detail was in a scant few pages about their rough academic analog as an organization and some of their internal politics stuff, and naming some of their big endeavors (because names you don't just make up are good for immersion). It just seemed a little lean for an already small book.

>I don't think it spurred a lot of discussion because discussion has been fucking trash lately.

Well, that's the fucking truth.

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>>51683557

There's already a couple of synthetic exsurgents who muck around with shapeshifting capability. And while I personally have never done much with them, TITAN Forests are mentioned as a thing, though that seems much more like a plot device or terrain feature than a proper opponent.

I think X-Risks also mentions a possible Wild Artificial on Mars which is basically a mobile drone garage.

This is how I play survivors on Earth, get triggered nurds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M678PVOf5F0

>>51687181
This is how I play TITANs on Earth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no2GNY4GHDE

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>>51691154
>Tfw when people try to represent political systems using only two axes

>>51691975
>my special snowflake ideology can't be boxed into such a simple schema!
>and no I will not give any specifics on what would work, why it doesn't work, or even what my ideology is

>>51691975
>an ideology with extreme socialist economic agendas and extreme reactionary social agendas will end up in the middle of the left-right axis, just like weaksauce moderates
Don't bother defending this bullshit.

>>51692589
Obviously meant to quote
>>51692483

>>51692589
I personally would use economic freedom vs equality and social freedom and control as the axes. Yeah that chart is dumb but I don't see why you desperately need more than 2 axes

>>51686721
Is this house-trainable?

>>51693475
Basically no.

>>51693652
Good to hear. We'll stick to the shoot on sight policy and only use any salvage for fixing the ultra-utilitarian shelter.

>>51692483
>Saying that a 2-axis diagram fails to capture the complexities of political systems constitutes a refusal to present a working ideology
???

>>51693741
>>51693475

Technically, some wild artificials are docile, and others may be able to be conditioned, but they're still rogue AIs.

>>51692661
Why would economic freedom and social freedom be opposed? Ancaps have all the social freedom they can handle.

>>51694463
He's precisely saying they should be on two different axes rather than opposed as they are on the left-right axes.

Taking suggestions on the new thread.

If they offered you a free good-quality biomorph body (at least Exalt-tier) and opportunities to learn tradeskills and engineering, would you choose to live on an all-female hab, /epg/? Assume it has your preferred sociopolitical and economic ideology and your hobbies and fetishes are not going to be unwelcome there, except that they think that an all-female demographic is better for a harmonious society and prefer the female form. Nothing is expected of you other than that you pull your weight and sleeve in a female morph, although they may suggest psychosurgery to adjust your ego gender as well.

Would you do it?

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>>51696062
/epg/: Cyberlimbs+ Edition

>>51696089
Yeah, I'd give up a lot of things for access to EP society. I'm not even sure if that is even a small price to pay.

New Thread:

>>51696572