/hhg/ aka Horus Heresy General

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The Alpha Legion is a mistake.

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>>51592412
That is what they want you to think

>>51592412
The Cabal did nothing wrong.

With HH books are worthy to read?
Now I'm reading Betrayer, before that I read Legion this was terrible.

>>51592558
The first three are brilliant, Scars is really good too.

>>51592512
Neither did Magnus

>>51592715
>magnus makes deals with deamons to save his legion
>magnus becomes emo and sentences his legion to death because he made a big mess

Magnus was a retard, only slightly less stupid then Russ.

Where does one get era-appropriate jump packs, other than FW?

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When you and your mates buy FW stuff from china worth 1100 £ but only pay 300

today is a good day

>>51592960
What'd you get and how's the quality

Well, I guess Inferno did save us.
Saved us for three days straight, that is.

>>51592960
Enjoy your jagged edges

So, from what we've seen so far, is Inferno the worst HH book as far as layout, logical stucture, proofreading and such is concerned?

>>51593230
Worst black book.

Crusade Imperialis red book is worse.

>>51593230
Indeed. I have nightmares from Rights of War. If they fuck up Angelus, I will show them what the angels' mercy is.

>>51592758
Blood Angel Sanguinary Guard have MkIV Jump packs.
They come with wings, but those are easy enough to leave off.

>>51593180
I got me some more Night lords, my brother got his TS and the third guy got Sons of Horus..
the best deal id say was a leviathan with arms for 24$ and its looking preeeety guud, china man hade a sale.
>>51593220
Oh I will..
paying a quarter of the price for 90% of the quality sounds bretty gud to me

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Thousand Sons in metallic red. Left or right?

>>51593350
Left

So is there no way to have more than one Primary and one Allied Detachment? Because slots start to get really cramped towards the 3.5k point mark, even with Reductor artillery squadrons I'm out of everything besides Elite slots. Are you just meant to take a billion Lords of War at 4k+ or something?

I like the more restrictive army building, on the whole, but it seems a bit odd I can take 6 Malcadors, 4 Knights or two Titans but no more than two squads of Vorax in Matrix of Ruin.

>>51593350
right

>>51593350
Left.

>>51593350
I like the more cherry red of the left one better.

Anybody got photos of the new mechanicum units rules?

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>>51593365
>>51593374
>>51593376
>>51593400
Thanks bros. I saw these guys at the weekender, with a beautiful deep cherry red, and decided I wanted to repaint my meager TS force to something similar.

Left is Alclad Candy Ruby and right is Candy Red.

>>51593403
reddit

I've stayed away from warhammer for the past ten years so I could pursue more affordable hobbies like heroin. But those Custodes. I'm tempted I'm really tempted to be that guy and make a custodes army.

>>51593417
looks good indeed.

>>51593350
definitely right, left is too dark

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>>51593256
I wanted to agree, but then I remembered this.

>>51593417
Normally I'd suggest the right one as it's warmer, but if you want to recreate the ones in the pic, the left one is spot on.
Also more pics are welcome if you have any.

>>51593326
I know about SG, but I'm late at the party as all the bitz stores sold them out.

>>51593373
The red book suggests Apocalypse after 3-4k mark.

>>51593417
Fucking hawt.

>>51592960
China man is based. Especially since he changed his resin. The new grey stuff is much better than the hard yellow he used to use.

Still not as good as FW resin, but for the price? Pretty hard to beat.

>>51593507
Ah, OK then. I guess if we didn't want to deal with all the Apoc rules we could just agree to take two FoCs, as well.

Does look like the Custodes get less good as the points scale up and everyone else gets more that can deal with them, then if you don't increase the FoC get better as everyone gets capped out and they can keep taking expensive and effective units instead of everyone elses chaff.

What do you think, would a Custodes force with only infantry and dreads be viable at all?

>>51592618
Scars is the shit.

Alrighty, trips decides what loyalist legion I play.

Hard mode: Can't be Imperial Fists.

>>51593623
Loyalist IW.

>>51593623
Raven Guard

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Would you play against this /hhg/?
>Imperial Fists Tactics painted up as Black Templars to represent M31 Split and thus still using Legion tactics
>Still all mkIII armor
>Crusader cross on one pauldron, Fist Icon on the other.
>Siggy here painted up black as he was at the beginning of the first Black Crusade

Thoughts? Have BoP and love BT for 40k but want to get into HH too. It could also always be some really dedicated-to-the-Templar-brethren Fists if the timeline is too off for some.

>>51592960
What chinaman is that from?

>>51593623
Ultramarines?

>>51593563
Possibly, it won't be a cake walk. You'd always be outnumbered so grabbing objectives is always going to be hard. You've also got a notable range disadvantage and 1's always seem to show up at the worst times when you're getting cockslapped with bolter volleys.

>>51593417
>Have faith, Word Bearer

>>51593644
I'd play it.

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>>51593507
Sure, but since everything was behind glass some didn't quite come out well.

>>51593428
It's not that expensive, considering how costly each unit is. Gold is fun to paint too, bling bling bang bang.

>>51593350
Paint your gold of choice around the spoons so we can judge properly.

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>>51593672

>>51593623
Salamanders.

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>>51593681
Wish I'd been able to get a better shot of this one, but one of the projectors made it impossible.

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>>51593623
Crusade era Imperial Heralds.

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>>51593697
Last one.

>>51593623
Dark Angels

>>51593644
>Not banana IF

Ofcourse ! Shooting at bananas isn't fun anyway :^)

>>51593643
>>51593631
>>51593654
>>51593687
>>51593705
Lemme make it easier dubs decides what Loyalist scum I play.

Hard mode: Can't be Fists

>>51593678
I would love to, but those are not my spoons. Each pot of Alclad candy is almost 10 euros, so I asked to try to minimize the chances I get fucked on the poorer red.

Since I'll be doing a gold base, the red will be slightly warmer than what's on those two spoons (silver base).

>>51593623
>trips
Fuck you, dubs take up half the threads as it is.
Space wolves.

>>51593730
100% sisters of silence.

>>51593623
Death Guard

>>51593644
Sure, I'm fine with it.

>>51593730
Firedrakes, IH breachers and phalanx warders lead by an IF running stone gauntlet.

>>51593623
Omega Legion

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>>51593730
Only the GOAT loyalists

Which Knights are usable in 30k? Some dude is selling the GW Errant and I literally can't remember what versions are and aren't acceptable

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>>51593776
Fuck, I was so close and almost all seven too.

>>51593730
Imperial Heralds.

>>51593623
Imperial Fists

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>>51593792
At least use the high quality one

>>51593806
Try you hand again here >>51593730

>>51593662
>>51593713
>>51593776
Woo! Black templar Fists it is then

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>>51593822
WASTED

>>51593730 It's time
>>51593822

>>51593822
Fucking wasted those doubles

>>51593853
Hard mode was initiated. Dude said fists, cant be fists.

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>>51593822
Anon will have to take his place amongst the sisters now.

>>51593730
War Hounds.

>>51593899
Chicken dinner!

>>51593899
Winrar. Dubs haveth thee decided. Rejoice! Rejoice! Although, I would have preferred if it was heresy-era

>>51593899
IT IS WELL DONE!

>>51593706
Thanks!
Can't see it in the pics, do you perhaps know what's the head used on that Guilliman?

>>51593941
Have no idea, sorry. He caught a lot of people's attention, but no one seemed to have an idea from where it was from.

>people complaining about memebubble
>you need to roll a nova(5/6), roll to enter from reserves(/w reroll), roll for scatter, roll to cast power, roll strength and then roll number of hits

36" 7 S:D is still a fucking bullshit, but it will fail more often than not. And yes, i'm aware that 4 S:9 is enough to wreck transports, but that's not why you are deepstriking your 500pts warlord into enemy army.

>>51592512
The cabal acted in their own interest.

Chaos dominated galaxy = bad for aliums
Human dominated galaxy = also bad for aliums

Chais and Humanity fucking each other up = aliums can survive in the niches of the universe

Or so they thought, because they're all dead by 40k and I'm fucking glad they they are. Eat shit, aliums, Imperator protegit.

>>51593984
>defending Magnus "Can't actually be attacked" the Red

>>51593659
In what book was this in again?

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I was planning on posting this over the weekend driving but the hotel IP was blocked on 4chan and it was a big of a mobile data black spot.

Pretty much everything from the weekender can be found online now but I did snap a pictures of the Adeptus Titanicus reference sheets.

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>>51593984
That's why I like Biomancy so much more.

You are guaranteed a 36" S: D AP2 Assault 4 power 58% of the time, and if you roll Life Leech you get a 36" S: D AP2 Assault 2 power that restores wounds to Magnus 83% of the time.

Plus you end up with benedictions. Let the army handle blobs and shit, Maggi is here to pop the big zits and bath in their spraying green-yellow pus mouth open to taste their anger and sadness.

>ksons terminators are better than justaerin and less points
fucking why??

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>>51594053

>>51594073
why do you think horus was terrified of the thousand soms?

>>51594042
>defending

As anon above said, you can get Biomancy and wreck everything in melee while still being able to snipe units with ease.

>>51594073
>35ppm for 2w model with 2+/3++

>>51594073
Stop being a bitch until you actually play them on the tabletop anon :)

>>51594049
with book and with page?

>>51594086
Psyker faggotry

On another not, anything about the SoH on prospero?

>>51594110
Book is enough so I can search through the ebook. However there are a fuckton of books and my ebook reader takes forever to load.

>>51593350
I'd say right.
What airbrush color are you using?

>>51594205
Not my spoons sadly. Left is Alclad Candy Ruby Red, right is Alclad Candy Red. Both are on silver bases.

Personally I'd do them on gold to warm up the color a tad. I'm asking because the paints are super pricy and I don't want to buy both.

So in a fairly casual meta, is it good to throw some bots into my Reductor army? Was thinking of a couple Castellax with wreckers and some Vorax to shore my line up against melee, so 1 Dominus with Machinator Array, whatever robots I want and Cortex Controllers on some of my other Magi. Will that horribly fail or can they perform competently without Cybernetica Cohort?.

>>51594007
Same conclusion here. Ayys are the cancer, Alpharius was made a fool out of the penultimate time.
He could've overturned the direction of the Heresy single-handedly.
>the rebellion on Olympia is suppressed before it begins, Iron Warriors remain loyal
>Curze doesn't return to his legion, thus they (probably) don't join Horus
I guess it was too late for Word Bearers, but
>Ferrus survives Isstvan, Iron Hands don't reeee
assuming Isstvan V happens.
>sack of Prospero likely prevented
>Betrayal at Calth prevented
>Ultramarines at full strength
>Blood Angels maybe timely avoid Signus
>Dark Angels don't become stranded in the Thramas sector
>IF Retribution Fleet at full strength
>Salamanders and Raven Guard don't get ninefold decimation
>Alpha Legion fully committed to the Emperor's cause
>Thousand Sons MAYBE held in penitence
>White Scars (?)
>Space Wolves at full strength

>>51594137
>anything about the SoH on prospero?
Seconding this.

>>51594049
>>51594110
I believe it's in the First Heretic.

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>>51593504
>that poorly edited marine

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>>51594257
>I believe it's in the First Heretic.
Thank you.
Everyone was saying that's from HH book III.

>>51594257
Yeah, Alpharius really dropped the ball, but then again he wasn't known for his wisdom.
That same foolishness made him engage Dorn 1v1 after all.

He could realistically just waited until Isstvaan and just counter-betrayed the betrayers.

>I believe it's in the First Heretic.
Thanks, Battle Brother!

>>51594078
Resize

are slow and purposeful bodyguards for primarchs bad for primarchs
im thinking of leman, as his main job is beating high toughness things to death and angron is better for crowd clearing

>>51594306
>That same foolishness made him engage Dorn 1v1 after all.

Ehh, he was guaranteed a win until he started his dumb little sermon.

>>51594315
Too lazy.

Text is clear which is what matters?

>>51594306
>That same foolishness made him engage Dorn 1v1 after all.
#dorned

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>>51594306
omegon got the brains
alpharius got shrapnel in his brain

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What are you guys working on atm?

>Magnus and the Thousand Sons gave away the designs for the Osiron Dreadnought, but most legions didn't want it out of disgust
>the Blood Ravens constantly give away free gifts to other chapters, but most chapters don't want it out of disgust

heh heh heh

>>51594306
>>51594338

Its the chainsword. People don't take the chainsword seriously.

>>51593927
Loyalist terran elements of the World Eaters that repainted their old colors. Done and done

What could Fulgrim have been doing in Path of Heaven that was so important he had to go completely AWOL with most of his Legion and leave Eidolon in charge of doing everything that the Legion was supposed to be doing?

>>51594338
>mfw every BL author get to write a chapter of the last HH book
>mfw ADB write the last chapter and has horus kill the emperor, hoping to start an entirely new setting
>mfw French writes Dorn into the epilogue and he kills Horus

>>51594373
My job.

However tonight, I'll be working on some Cuckstodes. Not sure if I want to actually get an army, but the rules drop prompted me to paint up the BoP ones I have.

>>51594432
>Cuckstodes
Can we not make this a thing?

>>51594445
It's literally one guy forcing it. Just ignore him.

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>>51594411
Take drugs and fuck bitches.

>>51594373
I want to drink from that cup

So, if I take Talons of the Emperor as Allies, I need to take a Sisters HQ or I can't take Sisters units?

>>51594428
Abbadon kills the Emperor*

>>51594459
This is probably true.

>>51594457
It's trying to hide, it's worked out that we use capitals and punctuation

Just trust that he's a fucking whiny bitch and should be ignored as hard as any trip

>>51594411
Probably just going off and being a huge cunt.
That seems to be his thing anymore.

>>51594411
Most likely he fucked off because he just felt like it at the time. It takes a special kind of genius to be more disastrous as an ally than as an enemy.

>>51594373
what's goin on with the guy in the background?

>>51594373
Hammering out a set of SW lists.
The HQ reqs suck dick to work through.
>Hurr durr yiffs are 'unique'
Well it is just a pointless tax.

>>51594053
>>51594078
Cheers mate, really appreciate it

>>51594457
>>51594445
>hear everybody calling them cuckstodes
>call them cuckstodes
>am called shitposter

Okay, chill, I didn't know it was a big deal. Custodes or bananaboys it is, then

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>>51593672
Duuuuude whaaaaat
That is soo cool.
Primarchs with helmets are nice.

If a unit has Brotherhood of Psykers and casts Iron Arm does it affect the whole unit or just one guy in the unit? Also was this answered in an FAQ?

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>>51594585
yes

Are Raven Guard the least relevant Legion?

>>51593428

The plastic custodes kits can make either troop choice and for the moment make the elites and HQ as well. Each 5 man kit costs on eBay about as much as a terminator box.

It's very possible to end up with a 2000 point list with less than 20 guys

>>51594445
>s-stop bullying muh OP snowflake army :(

>>51594539
I've been doing something similar with their antagonists. For all the hype about them, writing a TS list is tricky, there really aren't a lot of points to play with (especially as you don't want to rock up with just 1 HQ) so you have to really be sensible with your upgrades.

>>51594539
>being forced to take praetor is a pointless tax
I mean, it's probably a bit annoying, but at least you can upgrade a deathstar with a chaplain and a medicae at the same time so what do you want so many consuls for?

>>51594630
Probably Iron Hands.

>>51593672

The skin tones in that look like zombie flesh

>>51594677
sallys are irrelevant too

I've got two MkIII bodies left over, what should I convert them into for my EC?

Master of Signals maybe, and...?

>>51594304
>>51594306
Chapter 27, paragraph 4.

>>51594645
It's retarded and it gives them more attention than necessary.

>>51594656
We need less deathstars.

>>51594693
Make him a Herald if you ever run Maru Skara.

>>51592960

What site?

>>51594630

Salamanders


Their main contribution to the heresy was dying

>>51594645
>OP
>can easily lose 300 points in one turn to a squad of Medusas/Vindicators
>can be tarpitted for 3-4 rounds by squads a quarter of their points
>can't hold objectives for shit

Seriously, just keep 15 or so inches away and the army is laughably bad.

>>51594687
L I V E S.

>>51593195
Angelus will uplift us all.

Until we see Sanguinius' rules and shitpost endlessly.

>>51594693
Make a sergeant for your jetbikes.

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>>51593838
That's an interesting SA Veletarius

>>51594776
>no one will care about Lion unless he's magnus tier OP or beats leman/horus

Hmmm, been lurking since inferno was released, the Thousand Sons seem perfect.

I opted out of waiting for them and decided to build blackshields (no regrets), from a fluff perspective the Thousand Sons with the axis of dissolution are dead on in terms of fluff.

The opening hours of the battle for prospero is depicted by ranks of wolves being obliterated by psychic powers, each push into the Thousand Sons line costlier for the attackers by far. Each Thousand Son reaping a harsh tally in Wolf, Sister and Custode flesh.

Right up until the stresses of the flesh change ripped through the moral of the Thousand Sons.

They are glass cannons, unable to sustain the might of the Empyrean for long. Wait for the perils of the warp then strike at their leaders.

>>51594630

Every legion that got fucked at the Dropsite Massacre basically exited stagr-left on the Heresy.

>>51594763
>CIDF

As far as the Primarchs are concerned. Magnus and Russ are fascinating design conondrums, each independent of their Legion, even outcries from their brother Primarchs.

When designing a Legion, does the primarch enhance and support or stand alone as a god amongst his children.

The Thousand Sons where weak without Magnus, much in the same way the Word Bearers where weak without Lorgar.

>>51594841
I'd like to reap a harsh tally in Sister flesh if you know what I mean.

>>51594843
At least the IH like based Meduson and Moonman Autek organized the survivors and struck back, even wounded Horus.
The Ravens raided the traitors too and saved Russ.
But what did the Salamanders do besides tossing Vulkan into a volcano, rescuing Cassian Dracos and starting a cult?

>>51593672
What's that model to the right of Girlyman?

>>51594903
They invented a vaccine to the life-eater virus.

>>51594914
Baby Roboute.
>Don't talk to me or my son ever again

>AW
>Forces enemies to reroll all charges that harnessed successfully if target has that wound

Y/N?

>>51594939
>wound

What the fuck. Meant to say rule.

>>51594939
>>51594976
This game doesn't need more rerolls.

Warrior Lodges did nothing wrong

>>51594303
*That's* your problem with the picture?

>>51594841
Pretty much. It's why I'm happily anticipating battles between my Reductor and TS. They may be glass cannon, but if they can land a few good shots I'll be in trouble. If not, I can keep on moving 6" and pounding them with artillery aaaal day. As long as Magnus isn't there, in which case I need to load up a Macrocarid and just make a breakneck charge at him to try to grav the bastard before he hits me.

Honestly the worst possible things the Wolves could have done is charge headlong into the city where they could be nuked, the Thousand Sons won't last for a siege and they have better Titans. A more measured advance with proper support probably would have done a fair bit better.

>>51595029
>trusting erebus
>not realizing the should disband the moment based loken said they were bad

>>51595065
erebus was a fag

warrior lodges as an institution are not harmful

transhuman warrior boys will be boys and they need to hang out in secret groups to talk about what bolters they like and complain about the lack of killing in the current campaign, it's only natural

>>51595131
But why do they have to be so sneeeeky about it? Why couldn't they just have bants out in the open?

>>51595149
Because some Primarchs probably wouldn't be down with it

Can you imagine the autismic screeching Lion would do if he found out his own legion was keeping secrets from him

Also probably because Erebus was behind them. If they popped up naturally they'd probably be much more "out there"

>>51594924
Who tries to poison a burning coal of a planet, honestly.

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>>51592558
Scars and The Path of Heaven are really good. Master of Mankind continues some of the threads from Path of Heaven, but it's more "interesting" than "good" imo.

I liked Fulgrim a lot, but a lot of people don't. If you read it, read it before Path of Heaven because the EC play a role in that one.

>>51593350
Right. It's a warmer red.

>>51593697
That's the BA Leviathan by Lil' Legend Studios.

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>>51595131
>warrior lodges as an institution are not harmful
>transhuman warrior boys will be boys and they need to hang out in secret groups to talk about what bolters they like and complain about the lack of killing in the current campaign, it's only natural
WRONG!
THEY AREN'T MADE FOR MUNDANE THINGS LIKE HEART AND HOME!
THEY ARE THE EMPEROR'S WILL!!

>>51595209
You can't can't cite the lion as an example, the hierarchy within the 1st Legion with its series of Orders, external ranks and wings was too steeped in secrecy to be penetrated by a newfangled lodge.

>>51595233
>Lil' Legend Studios.
I should have known it was him.
Only he would paint the fucking Chapelle Sixtine on a dread and make it better than that BA's LR's Angel Michael.

>>51595240
t. first blood

maybe if he rested a bit before charging into Fulgrim he wouldn't have lost his head

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>>51595209
>lodges
>in the First
Let me scrub that foul mind of yours.

>>51595240
>we're going to punch the universe until it accepts humanity
Ferrus was awesome.

Honestly it's one of the bigger turn ons for the 1st Legion. Is capable of performing all the functions of the other Legions, it's structuring inherently innured it to the machinations of Erebrus and when the time came the Legion handled an internal schism independently.

All while having a knightly thematic origin.

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>>51595278
The flesh is weak, but the deeds endure.

Tell me about Horus "Little Horus" Aximand, aka Smalls

>>51594373
Diaz deamonettes, I get an erection from painting them.

>>51595316
>Steals symbol
>Steals motto
>Invents the worst terminator pattern

so are the wolves OP or not?

>>51595290
>we had an internal schism with needing Erebus's interference!
Kek.

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>>51595386
>>Invents the worst terminator pattern
Cataphractii is best pattern.
Go grab your Tartarus and run away, but drop those illegal stormshields first.

>>51595400
russ is, the rest of them are just decent

>>51595400
>inb4 yes
No.

>>51595350
Surprisingly based, also a surprisingly good duellist. He did rather lose face when the white scars ambushed the sons of horus though.

>>51595400
No. Russ ought to be toned down for fluff reasons, but he's fine.

>>51595400
The Vlka Fenryka is an organization dedicated to get Russ into duels and be different to the others. Nothing more.

>>51595414
He really isn't. He's just powerful against multi-wound models.

>>51595436
But I think he got the face re-attached and ended up looking even more like Horus.
Which means Horus' face is a fucking knee.

>>51595414
really?
from what I can tell he's good at smashing high toughness shit, can get bogged down easily and provides very little as a force multiplyer
kinda like a new angron, with less emphasis on crowd clearing and thus more survivable, which is kinda what I expected

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>>51595436
>lose face

So is Dread upgrade worth it?

50pts for ML1, AW, Shred on bolter weapons and that sweet S2 AP2 Force sword.

>>51595414
>russ is
*Russ' armour is.

>>51595414
>russ is

Russ is the Sigismund of primarchs, a beast 1v1, zero army buffs and easily tarpitted.

Angron murders everything, hordes, tanks and some primarchs and his legion doesnt need him so he's a nice bonus.

>>51595497
angron is garbage and you are trolling.
>>51595448
>>51595471
he cant even be hit after the 2nd round of combat by WS4 or less
>>51595496
yeah, his d3 wound abbydon sword is pretty nasty too

>>51594073
I think they are what termies should be. All terminators should have 2W

>>51593730
Isstvan V Survivors Shattered legion

>>51595491
Like vid related but with a sword
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxXgQVgfQcI
>>51595496
>*Russ' armour is.
wrongly written, confusing the term Exothermic with Endothermic?

And why does he of all people have an armour lik that? Where's Mortarion's Poison cloud armour, or Angron's Jesus-fuck-wear-some-artificer! armour?

>Been a Custodesfag for years, incredibly hyped ever since the first murmurs of the Talons list
>Never been not waifufaggotry
>tfw Jenetia Krole

Help.

>>51595536
All of the Sons of Horus stuff is slightly to moderately overcosted, they also generally have excellent all around rules and utility.

Don't be sad.

>>51595518
It can only do the d3 wounds thing once per turn at least.
>>51595497
Russ gets 6 S8 sunder attacks though.

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Some cool images from B&C.

>>51595579
She'll do the lewdz with (You), but she'll top you amazon style, look you in the eyes and say absolutely sweet literal nothings to you.

>>51595584
>Reavers
>Moderatly overcosted

I wish we could say that they were moderatly overcosted

>>51595584
I'm not sad. I play 1k sons. I'm actually verry happy

>>51595614
>I see nothing wrong with this

>>51595493
Not really, it's still just a contemptor durability

>>51595577
>>51595579
You would be playing the most Animu army anyway, indulge Frenon. Your golden justicars of Imperial might have to fuck bitches too.

>>51595497
Pretty much, and be provides even worse army buffs than Scoria (and still loses to him). I've come to the conclusion that Primarchs that just fight are completely useless compared to people like Fulgrim, Ferrus, or even a kitted out Archmagos Archimandrite.
>>51595577
Yeah, the armour is highest order bullshit, and they could at least be bothered to quickly google Exothermic to make sure they got the OP items name right.

>>51595621
Destroyers are overcosted. The special unit is also overcosted.

Being derived from something overcosted = moderately overcosted due to the base being expensive anyway

>>51595624
>have gamebreaking rules
>be happy about it
why?

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>>51595614
Oh man.

I want a revision of the Horus Heresy Series.
The power creep is real.
>>51595652
Who is Frenon?

>>51595682
>Tsons are gamebreaking outside of magnus
Memekakke.

>>51595712
huh
so lets say primarchs dont exist
are there any legions that are still overpowered?

>>51594049
First Heretic

>>51595712
>brotherhood of psykers making whole units s7t7 and random meme ammo that makes them better at shooting than IF
>better terminators than justaerin that are cheaper
>-i-its j-ust magnus!
no

>>51594718
Don't you mean a Champion?

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>>51595689
>>51595642
When she cums she'll look you in the soul and you'll listen the screams of the banished.
Did I mention she fuccs you in full plate? ;^)
>tfw little Sister Melpomanei will be right beside you, translating Jenetia's screams and calling (You) her bitch

>>51594568
Why bananaboys?

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>>51593623

>>51595670
It'd be interesting to see at what point levels they playtested the primarchs. (I know they didn't.)
The combat ones are stronger the smaller the battle is, but the ones handing out bonuses get exponentially better as much as the armies get bigger.

>>51595659
Go on.

>>51595493
>>51595645
Worse yet, is 50pts for a single Dread or the entire Talon? The wording is very ambiguous.

>>51595679
Reavers are based on Despoilers (BP+CCW Tacs).

>>51595712
Asphyx Moritat

>>51595784
No. Assuming you already have a Champion, Herald provides you with further movement bonuses.

>>51594469
Correct, one Sister HQ unlocks three Sister Units. If you want six Sister Units, you need two Sister HQ.

>>51595773
They have an army wide pinning test anytime someone perils.

The odds of rolling doubles isn't that crazy.

>>51595827
>pinning tests
>a big deal
pick 1

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>>51595796
Because of their enlongated helmets and them being golden as a banana.
Also, people got mad when anon called the Custards "cuckstodes".

>>51595240
Oh hell yeah Ferrus

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>>51595822
Well, I guess my Talons ally detachment isn't getting that sand worm submarine then...

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>>51595839
>Shrapnel ammo
[Cries in bitter]

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>>51595844
>Because of their enlongated helmets and them being golden as a banana.
thats the most reddit thing ive ever heard

>>51595682
Because they got the things I wanted them to have. Dont really care that much about Sekmets, but I adore Amon, the scouts and the psykers everywhere

>>51595827
>they can buy an item that blocks first perils for 10pts
>pinning occurs after movement phase
>Magnus gives them all ld10

Although that one time when they get pinned when they need to run for objective will be hilarious.

>>51595886
You've got to understand your enemy to hate it better.

>>51595844
Banana boys seem more fitting for Imperial Fists.

>>51595871
That's a transport thought, so I dunno if it counts, I don't think transports do.

>>51595811
50 per dread, sadly

>>51595839
Let's say you take a pysker heavy force. 2 Sehkmet, a ml3 praetor and a master level 2 librarian.

That's four characters attempting to manifest powers each turn.

The odds of rolling doubles with two dice is 1/6, the odds of double one or double six is 1/18

You will probably perils at least once a turn if each character attempts to manifest a power resulting in an army wide pinning test every turn.

I assume you perils on a double right? It is it specifically double one or sixes

>>51595891
True, but killing all of their ICs gives everyone -1Ld and killing their Sergeant brings them down another 1 so that's Ld7.

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>>51595885

>>51594502
I was toying with an idea of a 40k chapter made up originally of loyalists from traitors legions. I made him for that.

>>51595791
>Full plate
Not saying fetish or anything but...

>>51595961
>I assume you perils on a double right? It is it specifically double one or sixes
Double sixes, and they have to take a wound for pinning test to occur.

Also, assume that you will use WC/3 powers.

>>51595961
its double sixes, its not a big deal. they are gamebreaking.
>have like 12+ psychic dice before even rolling
>any unit can become s7t7 ap2 at initiative
>undercosted and overpowered terminators
>random ammo that makes them better than IF in every way
theres no way you can spin the ksons without them looking broken as shit.

what was the go to armour for scars?
i imagine it would be 2, but trouble is im poor, so 3 would be best, so would that be acceptable? or was 3 invented way after the scars went of on their own?

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>>51595791
I can only get so erect here, anon.

>>51596021
In the book Scars, they used a lot of mkIII, so you're good.

>>51595943
Well, now you just have to show me how to take it without any Sisters, and I'll zuk yo deek.

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>>51596046
...but will you wear full plate?

>>51596020
You have to invest heavily into those things and they aren't completely reliable. Sinking points into psykers and having them each cast a wc3 power is a lot of rng. Other Legions can pick up firepower that's more cost effective as well as reliable.

>>51596070
Will a hauberk do?

>>51596094
>Other Legions can pick up firepower that's more cost effective as well as reliable.
no they cant, considering ksons terminators are stupidly undercosted and the dumb meme ammo makes them better at shooting than IF, so no, even without psychic powers they are broken.
>having them each cast a wc3 power
what power? most of the good ones are wc2 and youd cast them as you need. ksons are so disgustingly gamebreaking that i assumed everybody already knew this. thats why people are refusing to play against them

>>51596020
>any unit can become s7t7 ap2 at initiative
*1/6 chance of rolling the power, assuming you even rolled biomancy
*Possibility that you won't have the charges to throw at that unit
*Might not even cast the thing
*Perils causing you to maybe get pinned and can't charge anyway
Why am I even replying to cuckanon?

>>51595811
Yeah, I suspect they just handed out ID or Murderous Strike weapons just to make sure no Archmagi generics could ever challenge them then assigned abilities and stats more or less randomly.
Personally I prefer support HQs so I really want to convert Inar Satarael for my army, but I don't think he can go in Reductor. The buffs Archmagi sans the Archimandrite are basically capped by the 4 Cyber-Occularis, not that those aren't plenty.

>>51596094
Anon, they fucking Shred on bolter weapons and can get Prescience on anything. They reroll both To Hit and To Wound on virtually anything.

Rolling on Biomancy gives you 50% that you will get either Endurance, Iron Hand or Warp Speed. Even Enfeeble makes it easier for you to kill units.

>>51596150
>retard who keeping trying defend FWs blatant powercreep
what is FW paying you?

>>51596148
So what makes the asphyx ammo meme? the fact that you don't like them? your big abloo bloo is why they are a meme?

>>51596046
You can't since it's a dedicated transport for Sistas only.

>>51596208
its just a totally unnecessary and not particularly fluffy tag on FW added merely for the sake of powercreep.

>>51596148
A medusa at 140 points is more cost effective Fire power. A Sicarian is more cost effective firepower.

Quad mortars phosphex gated behind a Siege breaker is more cost effective.

Loads of firepower without having to roll for a power, invest in items to mitigate perils, invest in units that are psykers in the first place. That doesn't take into account the odds of failing to manifest the power in the first place.

Buying bodies with reliable cost effective weapons will be more effective than pouring your army into enough psykers
To make every power go off reliably.

>>51593984
Also ya know... Novas aren't witchfires, they're Novas. Which is why they're specifically referred to as Novas and not witchfires.

Any fuckwit that tries to claim Magnus can use a nova to D-bubble is just screaming how much of a shitpile their reading comprehension is.

>>51596241
so ksons dont have access to phosphex thudd guns or medusas??? also see this
>>51596171

>>51596240
Post heresy Thousand Sons have ap3 bolters, how is shred not fluffy?

>>51596245
>Which is why they're specifically referred to as Novas and not witchfires
That's like saying IF aren't space marines because people call them IFs. Novas are a subtype of witchfires like beams and focussed witchfires.

That said, that interpretation is the only way Magnus isn't completely broken, so whatever.

>>51596267
>how is shred not fluffy?
why do the ksons get shred ammo when alpha legion doesnt?

why should the ksons get ammo that automatically makes their bolters better than IF, whos whole gimmick is bolters?

>>51596148
Please. Screaming broken is just a spineless way of admitting you can't figure out new tactics. The same assholes that keep charging Primarchs into Scoria and whining about broken rules are the same fuckwits complaining about the Thousand Sons now before they've even gotten a single game in.

>>51596304
>stupid FW employee refuses to admit the blatant powercreep is blatant
news at 11

>>51596298
IF gimmick is bolters, not special ammo.

>>51596297
Knock yourself out if you want to inflict shitty reading comprehension on your gaming group. We've already demoed Magnus in a half dozen games. He's not weak by any means, but not the boohoo bitch fest broken everyone keeps demanding he is.

>>51593350
left, right looks too blood angel. but other poster had ti right, use gold next to it

>>51596257
Hmm, well if those two wound terminators are so cost effective, one would assume you would want your elites to be saturated with them?

Your 12 warp charges have a pretty hefty investment from the sehkements to even make that possible.

Praetor = 3
Librarian = 2
3x sehkemet = 6

That's 11 dice. Losing any of those models is a sixth of your total warp charges or more.

To get more than that you would HAVE to pick up a RoW that would be even more of a cost.

>>51596334
11:05 follow up.

Yet another rando dumbass screaming like a basic bitch before the book is even out.

>>51596334
Meh, call me when 30k is half as unbalanced as 40k

TSon Rites of War

The Axis of Dissolution

>can't have more flyers or tanks than infantry
>all unit with TS must be maxed out(this doesn't include Automata, only Blade Cabal, super scouts and termies)
>overwatch at BS2
>auto-pass Moral and Pinning tests if you are 6" from objective
>units with TS reroll to hit and to wound on enemies that are falling back

Magnus guard

>no allied detachments/fortifications/more vehicles than infantry/Warlord must be Ahriman, Magnus or ML3 praetor
>roll 2d6 for Winds of Warp and pick highest
>termies, Independent Characters and Magnus can deploy via Teleport and gain Fear and can reroll invu saves of 1 for the next turn
>termies everywhere
>you can get Magnus without tax

>>51596169
>Personally I prefer support HQs
Same here. I like armies with synergy except for Moritats, Moritats make me hard even if their tactics are stupid.

>>51596298
This is CSM3.5 2nd Ed. if you haven't noticed. Even their Signs&Portents rule is reminiscent of Rubricae-controlling Sorcerers. Asphyx only applies to bolt pistols and boltguns, not heavy bolters.

>>51596341
What powers did Magnus roll up during those games? Because I'm betting you didn't go full telepathy to get invisibility or, y'know, actually read the rules for novas, beams, or focussed witchfires.

>>51596369
>da book isnt even out yet so da rules mite change guise!
nice 'argument'

>>51596103
Eh, I guess I can always turn off the lights.
Also, here's the PDFs

http://www.mediafire.com/file/cxrk2978wbwkmv0/Thousand+Sons.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/file/t6y7bddxcy387yw/Space+Wolves.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/file/8ukjwhr4a8x6tet/Titan+Guard.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1voouhaka9bctd9/Talons+of+the+Emperor.pd
You could bring an Excruciatus as an HQ (100 pts) and a Prosecutor Cadre as Troops (mere 65 pts), both of which can take the Kharon DT for 125 pts (that's 415 pts so the Excruciatus cadre is still legal).
>*Exposes fully studded MkV crotchpiece*
;^)

Is there a way to make Castellax scoring ?

>>51596369
So you think they're gonna trash all the books they've printed and even sold so far, revise everything and print a whole new set of books in a few weeks?

>>51596304
Oh, the best part is they never stopped charging Primarchs into Scoria or to a lesser extent Myrmidons, as my steadily increasing workload of painting all the kill markings on the side of the Stormbird proxy I will eventually do attests to.

Maybe I'll just put the Myrmidon ones on the Macrocarid once the transfers arrive, should be enough room for a rank or two of small ones.

And soon they will continue charging Russ, Magnus and everything at the bastard and once they lose their snowflake once they will decree him broke, despite the fact that he is quite literally designed to do that and struggles against Shieldstodes or 2W termies a lot. Or, you know, just shoot the bastard.


>>51596402

Why does the RoW for the least numerous legion require full squads? Surely that's like expecting the White Scars to always run Dreads or something, its kind of counterintuitive to the fluff. Probably a reason for it I haven't spotted yet.

>>51596402
Yeah, Magnus guard is a stupid rite, what does it add that Primarch's Chosen doesn't already? We could have had a cool rite focussing on magic mechanicum, but no, we just had to have a RoW tailor built to make Magnus even more broken than he already is.

>>51596459
Nope, but if you need scoring bring a couple Adsecularis blobs with Fearless and Carapace, they're excellent tarpits as well, and do a lot to compensate for the limited numbers of Mechanicum.

>May have been asking for an entirely different reason and that was wasted words, but whatever.

>>51596424
Oh it's not an arguement. That implies a debate. The rules aren't going to change anytime soon since the book is already in print.

I'm telling you that you're a wingey fuckwit that is going to sit and bitch in an Internet forum where I'm going to be having fun playing 30k with actual friends who also enjoy it.

So fume all ya want, kiddo.

Looking at a Pysker heavy Thousand Sons list, nearly all of your army elements are foot slogging. You have little to no wiggleroom in your elite or HQ choices.

To max this out FURTHER you take the Magnus RoW, can take even less vehicles and that comes out to be 1000 points or more, with no answer to fliers, deathstars or massed infantry outside of Magnus.

>>51596411
>Asphyx only applies to bolt pistols and boltguns, not heavy bolters
It also works for combi- bolter parts. So termies can reroll both to hit and wound at base.
>>51596419
>didn't go full telepathy
.. because that's idiotic? Telepathy is choke full of powers you don't want.

Get Biomancy so you both have lots of cheap buffs that let you wreck in melee while also having powerful nuke to snipe characters or terminators.
>>51596487
I honestly have no idea. It stops you from spamming units for more WC, i guess? Although i'd probably max them out anyway.
>>51596495
Really, Nova's would be less terrible if not for that. I mean, he could still do Santic for that teleport ability and their Nova, but still.

>>51596452
>You could bring an Excruciatus as an HQ

How do you fit more than 1 HQ into an Ally detachment? Because I'm not giving up my Captain, I worked long and hard for that conversion.

>>51596495
>what does it add that Primarch's Chosen doesn't already?
Enhanced Witchery and Warpstepping Deepstrike with Fear, which is pretty much Magnus' flavour of Primarch's chosen.

I do not want you to have a bot-RoW, not beyon the usual one.
>Tfw IW have bot-wing but their Praevians are the worst and Narik is better when played as a Salamander

>>51596517
>dumb FW employee is mad that people dont suck FWs dick over a poorly written book

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>>51596419
>actually read the rules for novas, beams, or focussed witchfires.

you mean the part that says they are a SUBTYPE of witchfires with targeting restrictions?

>>51596563
Damn dude, I wish I was a FW employee. Then I'd get cheap resin *and* killer BJs.

>>51596563
Did you honestly expect to rage without any opposition forming as other anons looked at the rules?

>>51596529
I think people overrate telepathy a lot, invis isnt even THAT good in 30k as it is in 40k.

I'd say Biomancy or Sanctic are the best for powers

>>51596583
Yes, exactly that, the bit that says they are witchfires.

>>51596593
the only 'people' trying to defend the blatantly bullshit kson rules, are people so unfamiliar with the game they dont even understand how perils work.

>>51596419
>actually read the rules for novas, beams, or focussed witchfires.

How about you read them first?

>>51596487
>Why does the RoW for the least numerous legion require full squads?
See
>>>51596402
>>overwatch at BS2
>>auto-pass Moral and Pinning tests if you are 6" from objective
>>units with TS reroll to hit and to wound on enemies that are falling back

>>51596529
Combi-bolters are still bolters. You still pay for shred.

>>51596583
>no D-Beams
A wasted opportunity right there, it's cool as hell.

>>51596534
Gee anon, he cannot have a harem of silent soulless cuties servicing his Paragon Spear. At least not in an allied detachment.

Maybe you want The Emperor as an ally too? :^)

>>51596643
THeres only you raging more or less.

There are three or four other anons having to explain things to you piecemeal.

There's this massive upfront cost that has a ton of rng as payoff.

>>51596603
I would go Biomancy myself, but Santic has some decent stuff between +1invu, deep-striking all the time and AP4 Nova to go with it.

Still, Biomancy has just the right combination of tank, ranged offense, melee offense and is not as draining on WC compared to other powers.
>>51596659
>Combi-bolters are still bolters. You still pay for shred.
Fair enough, but termies get ammo by default so..

Also, FW should really FAQ how powers other than vanilla witchfires work with Mind Wrath. Including templates, because i'd really like giant template of D. Suck it Eldar.

>>51596659
>See
Aha, so?
The bonuses require a billion dudes to be effective, but that doesn't change the fact that the wizard legion is so small. It doesn't suddenly give you extra dudes.

>>51596687
>There are three or four other anons having to explain things to you piecemeal.
learn to read you fucking idiot, thats not whats been going on.

if anything its me and 1 other guy teaching dumbasses basic rules like how fucking perils works.

>>51596643
You go turn to on the Thousand Sons with such heavy investment in vulnerable infantry, prepared to get slaughtered by templates like anyone else

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>>51596714
>Suck it Eldar.
You've earned this pic.

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>>51596021
You have a lot of flexibility. We don't have much detail and won't get anything official from FW for a loooong time, but what we do know is:

They had lousy logistics and didn't get replenished very often. They were using a lot of Mk II after most legions had replaced all of it.

Mk III is specifically mentioned in Scars. I think it was in reference to an honor guard of some sort - which doesn't mean line troops didn't have any, but it could. They should like it because they were boarding a lot of ships during the early Heresy.

No specific mention of Mk IV early on... but they were at Ullanor so you could give them some. I know Horus thought he had a chance at winning him over, but probably not much of a chance - after all, he did send them to an out-of-the-way planet where communiations were blocked by a device the Alpha Legion knew about.

After Chondax, the Scars are on their own in traitor-held territory for a few years, acting as pirates to a degree. Mk V makes sense during this period, but they'd get their hands on some Mk IV. If you want to have them raid an Alpha Legion-aligned manufacturing world and steal some Mk VI, you can (I don't think it'd look very good).

Then they get to Terra, where they should get plenty of Mk IV (and eventually Mk VII).

>>51596680
Don't be snarky at me just because you can't read what I post.

>>51596680
Well, there's nothing saying your warlord can't be in an allied detachment, and they'll probably be some way to make Emps a HQ and the meme custodes elites into troops. :^)

How about we take a break from the shitposting and talk about Blood Angels.

What are we expecting out of Angelus?

>>51596730
If by plural you mean singular. You explained perils. Nothing else.

>>51596823
maybe you should learn basic rules before trying to argue that the most blatantly broken legion, isnt broken.

>>51596797
>there's nothing saying your warlord can't be in an allied detachment
He is not "a" warlord. Even the numbered mistakes are "the" warlords, being the army's primary detachment themselves. They are pretty much Lords of War that ally their armies to themselves, and not the other way around.
>>51596786
I guess your only solution, if you want both Sisters and a Pillar Man, is to go Talons of the Emperor as a main force.
What is the main detachment you wanted to ally them to anyway?

>>51596810
Dark Angels.

Hopefully they have instant death bolter rounds for us to cry about.

>>51596810
>Lion
>Corswain
>Some FW oc DA
>No Luther because he wasn't there even though Fulgrim was in HH1
>Stormwing
>Firewing
>Deathwing
>Dreadwing

So I've seen the Inferno rules leaks. Are there any images of art/models in the book yet? Or lore of the legions?

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>>51596810
Sanguinius has a D-strenght sword and two assault cannons. To keep up with the power creep, you see.

Thousand Sons, 1.5k

Ahriman, 225

10x Vets, 250
Corvidae, ML1 Bros, Divination
Artificer Armour, Asphyx Shells, Rhino
1x Combi Plasma

10x Vets, 250
Corvidae, ML1 Bros, Divination
Artificer Armour, Asphyx Shells, Rhino
1x Combi Plasma

15x Breachers, 295
Raptora
Artificer Armour, Breacher Charge, Melta Bomb

Javelin 2x HK, 65
Javelin 2x HK, 65

Laser Destroyer Rapier, 55
Laser Destroyer Rapier, 55
Raptora on both

Deredeo, 215
Aiolos Missiles

Total: 1495 pts

No Sekhmet, no bullshit warp charges, fucking breachers, and hopefully more unit variety than usual at 1.5k.

Sounds like a fun list to play against or abloo bloo bloo?

Ahriman goes with the breaches, breachers and vets all Scout ahead.

>>51596871
You haven't addressed any of the points I've mentioned, it's been mostly yelling and name calling.

I'm sure you are quite active within your gaming group, do you treat them the same way when they disagree with you?

So what do you guys think about that Automata? Seems like it will be packing decent dakka with Prescience, plus it has decent melee and durability for those 135pts.

WS3 will be annoying, but that's nothing that Prescience and number of hits can't deal with.

>>51596810
Honestly I don't know, just hoping I can find something to make to go a long side my Luna Wolves.

Which is probably just gonna be more deep-striking

>>51596716
In-fluff explanation could be all of them bunching up in defensive formations as the assault on Tizca began. But the Axis of Dissolution is a fucking cool name so I'll take that.

>>51596714
>>Fair enough, but termies get ammo by default so..
Which is included in the starting cost. Although +35pts is a bit too cheap, they are 2W terminators. As is +5pts combi-weapon, it should be regularly priced.

I agree, they should do the FAQ.

>>51596730
Suck it yifffag.
>>51596871
And you should learn the basic writing conventions.

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>People keep on having arguments about how broken TS or Custodes really are
>When nobody here actually ever plays a game

Keep the nerd rage going !

>>51596810
More power creep.

>>51596923
Three/Four attacks at S10 I4 is sexy, even at WS3. They compare extremely well to regular Castellax.

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>>51596913
Are breachers viable with 5++? 4++ close combat?

Probably stupid over powered with buffs though amirite? S7 t7 ap2 whenever I want amirite?

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>>51596951
>they are 2W terminators
REMOVE PSYBAB REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>51596797
Fairly certain it states that your Warlord must be from your primary detachment, since I remember asking something similar when I was new to this and wanted Reductor main and Cybernetica allied, and wondered if I could ally Scoria and make him Warlord.

>>51596810
Some new Daemon characters/units to bring them into 30k properly, could even give a RoW to traitor legions to ally their respective demons (Nurgle RoW for DG, Slaanesh Row for EC, etc with only WB getting access to the full demon army).

Jetbike chariots for BA, a new Terminator unit for DA.

>>51596911
I'd be fine with that

If Sanguinius gets styled on by Russ I'm going to be pissed.

>>51596953
I have purchased three hundred dollars of ack shields, chinaman exists. Start buying and painting.

>>51596915
my gaming group already has agreed not to play ksons and will probably be housruling them a new ruleset

>>51596968
Don't forget how they reroll absolutely everything and are invisible.