Warhammer Fantasy General

>>51257209
Why didn't Lizardmen and/or Elves wipe out humans when those just appeared? Half the problems in WHFB would've been solved and/or prevented by wiping the humanity out in the first place.

>>51257311
Because the lizards are autists and the elves saw us as roughly equivalent to goblins.

>>51257352
why not wipe gobling out too, while we're at it?

at least 40k humanity go that right. when you encounter another race in a primitive stage, wipe it out before it develops.

>>51257375
They were busy dealing with greenskins and daemons.

>>51257311
The exact nature of the humans isn't really know, as far as I know. It's entirely possible the the Old Ones used the world as part of some kind of test.

Most other species; Lizardfolk, Elves, Dwarfs, Halfings, Ogres, Giants, etc., are created specifically by the Old Ones for various reasons, primarily fighting Chaos. Or at least that's the belief.

Humans, though? They don't seem to have been around since forever (such as the Dragons or the Dragon-Ogres) but nothing has ever suggested that they were created by the Old Ones. It's entirely possible that the world exists for the humans, for some reason or another (which has since been lost).

>>51257311
The world was doomed by elven arrogance and the honor-bound nature of dwarfs.

If not for elvish stupidity and the vindictiveness of a french fried (elven) faggot, Chaos never would have gotten a meaningful foothold in the world.

The best part of this is that the elves are so stupid that they gave the war they started, lost, and which doomed them a flippant name, showing that despite their supposed wisdom they learned absolutely nothing.

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>>51255011
>wine? do vampires drink mortal drinks? CAN vampires consume mortal food at all?

I don't see why not.

>>51257427
What incident are you talking about?

In WFRP2e, are great weapons ever worth it? You miss out on a lot for just 1 damage.

>>51257412
Not according to the lizardmen army book that you didn't read.

>>51257427
Actually, it was Be'lakor, an ancient human who asended to daemonhood, who attracted Chaos to the world. So humans are at fault

>>51257496
I haven't read all the lizardmen army books, no, I've only flipped through one or two. What're you getting at?

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>>51257606

>>51257473
Depends on whether you want to use two-handed weapons or not. That said, the main benefit of the Great Weapons is that they have Impact, which allows you to roll two dice and take the better result.

This doubles your chance for Ulric's Fury, and adds an average of 2 damage. It also means that your damage output is a lot less swingy.

That said, Halberds are almost always superior, aside from the possibility of them being unwieldy in tight spaces, which is entirely a narrative issue that may also apply to many Great Weapons.

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>>51257660
>the Old Ones created humanity
Oh, well, I guess shut up me, then. I'll just be over here, shutting up, in shame.

>>51257700
>picrelated
what if you forged coins out of gromril?

>>51257443
The War of Vengeance, which the elves call the War of the Beard, started when Malekith got his men to dress up as high elves and raided dwarf caravans until the king sent an envoy to complain formally and demand restitution.

Now, the dwarfs didn't know that the dark elves were a thing. Did the Phoenix King tell them? No. Did he ask for information? No. Did he pay restitution? No.

Instead, he demanded the envoy grovel on his knees to even be considered. Now, rightfully incensed, the envoy raised the restitution due to the dwarfen kingdoms for the unrighteous insult. The Phoenix King responded by having the envoy's beard shaved off. To give you an idea of the significance of this, imagine if one were to hold you down, cut your cock off, and sew it to your shirt so everyone could see.

This insult was so unspeakable that the dwarfs went to war. What ensued was an empire-ruining war that the elves lost, being literally driven into the sea. The Phoenix King begged for his life like a coward before being struck down. The dwarfs have the true phoenix crown to this day.

>>51257788
You anti-elffaggots sure are a bunch of retards.

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>>51257660
That said, Drachenfels was apparently some kind of hominid that existed before the Old Ones.

So as far as we know, the ice-age world before the coming of the Old Ones was inhabited by Cavemen, Dragon Ogres, Dragons, Thundertusks and Stegadons.

>>51257788
You can't argue with elves.

there's even a trope about it so you know it's true.

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>>51257788
To be fair, Caledor II was a grade-A prick.

>>51257885
sure thing. elves are always grade-A in anything
superior race, dude

>>51257885
>The Pointlessly Tall
shouldn't dwarfs feel that way about most things in the world, including some halflings?

>>51257885
He was also chosen. So you can understand the deep dwarfen distaste for elves.

>>51257937
Explains the constant anger.

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>>51257788

There's something supremely satisfying about the War of Vengeance. I think it's the way Caledor II dies followed by the claiming of the Phoenix Crown.

I love reading about it.

>>51257788
I don't see what this has to do with Chaos. Rather suspected that you would bring something up from the End Times.

Is there a good link for mobi files of old world novels?

>>51258149
It's canon that Chaos never would have gotten a foothold in the Old World if not for the war depleting the two most able resistant species.

>>51258491
This logic only works from a meta-perspective. And what about lizardmen? Ogres?

>>51258562
>And what about lizardmen? Ogres?

What about irrelevant shitter races?

>>51258630
That's another meta-answer.

>>51258491
Like it's canon that Old ones didn't create the humans? Kappa

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Shouldn't this thread be in /his/?

>>51257885
Elf

>>51257436
I think the Vampires not drinking wine thing is related to wine having symbolic value in Chriatianity.

>>51257839
And you are a Stegosaurus.

He was stating facts, is that a stupid thing now? Clearly a massive war broke out between the Dwarfs and Elves and clearly it was the result of the High Elves' King being too arrogant to tell the Dwarfs about Dark Elf trickery, and clearly when the Dwarfs ended the war, it ended with the killing of the High Elf King and the Dwarfs taking his crown.

If you think explaining an event or incident that happened in a story or setting is stupid, then you are even more retarded.

>>51258973
The retarded thing is to somehow link this to how doomed the world is, to chaos and to make it somehow all about elves despite the whole origin of the conflict being written grey and making both sides stubborn assholes, while there are several races made to fight chaos. I mean I could say after the dwarves defeated the elves they could have crowned themselves the defenders of the world and take their role, but no, let's get fucked by goblins and rats, they said Ultimately blaming everything on the elves like you are some kind of massive dwarfaboo without self-consciousness.

And dwarves not knowing about the civil war is the most retarded thing. They knew about it, they just didn't understand it fully.

>>51259275
The lesson of the fluff is that both elves and dorfs are unreliable. Only trust humans.

>>51259275
t. elgi

>>51259478
Yeah, let's trust the number one chaos worshippers in the world.

>>51259275
The conflic has always been written as both being stubborn asses and one armybook always depicted the other side as being unimaginable cunts that acted completely petty and unprovoked. That being said, the ball was always more in the Elves' court at the start, since the Dwarfs didn't even knew what the fuck was going on. Later on, dwarfen stubborness would've never allowed for a diplomatic end.
It's a story about how too much pride fucks you over in the end. The War of Vengeance/Beard story has always been one of the best things in the fluff, because the Dwarfs clearly win this. It's not a moralistic fingerwagging at how both sides were absolutely wrong and got their just desserts, one side just won no matter whether they were right or not.
And then the Lizards fucked everything up.
Seriously, fuck Lord Quex.

>>51259799
>Yeah, let's trust the number one chaos worshippers in the world.

And their main foe.

Half the fucking elves worship a god damn chaos god, while the other half do nothing but slavsquat around a fucking toilet in the ocean. Let's not get into the bush niggers.

Dwarfs help, granted, but it's not like they have the folk to spare most of the time.

>>51259799
>has always been one of the best things in the fluff, because the Dwarfs clearly win this
Always saw this as the writers balancing out that the elves were doing all the awesome battles against Chaos and world saving before, giving the dwarves finally some time to shine by beating up one of their kings that even the elves' own sources claim to be an idiot.

>>51259957
Chaos' main foe are still the lizards with their fucking horseshit tectonic shifts and clamping down on the chaos gates and other shenanigans.

Kislev is doing a great job at protecting the old world from the worst and the Empire is getting the brunt of the big incursions by virtue of mass and position alone, but let's not act as if humans are the one true anti-chaos weapon.

>>51260042
>Chaos' main foe are still the lizards

Nope, it's the Elves.
They were the ones who saved the world from Chaos in the first place.

>>51260119
So, it's the Elves, the Humans and the Lizards, sometimes the Dwarfs or the Ogres and maybe Orks, but it's never the Halflings?

>>51260119
The lizards helped, though. Something something the vortex spell got strengthened by a Slann somehow.

>>51260042
>>51260119
Elves put a a magical containment shield in place after the original one by the Lizards was broken.
Elven waystones or Lustrian temples are basically the same thing when it comes to battling chaos.

Lizards cannot go where they need to go though, since the climate change that came with the opening of the portal over the chaos wastes fucked them over for being cold blooded.
The only ones able to pick up the slack cause they are super wizards were the elves. They are not nearly as good as the Slann were though.

Another cool thing about Lizardmen is that the Saurus Warriors are basically biological robots. The guys are completely useless for anything but murdering stuff.
And in the temples they've got laserrifles and energy shields if you read between the lines. In Oldhammer Chaos Warriors could get projectile weapons and power armor too.
Anyway imagine Lizards were clever enough to use that stuff.

pew pew lazerguns!

Hey guys, I wanna get into Warhammer fantasy. You guys think Mordheim would be the best introduction? Seems to have less cost because it's squad based.

>>51260042
The stupid lizards are the reason the dwarfs are so badly hosed.

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>>51260405
Sure. But you will also need a bunch of buildings. Which might require effort depending on how nice you want them to be.

>>51260696
>>51260405

You can make ruined buildings both easily and cheapily. There are also printable buildings available.

>>51260536
The worst thing about it is that they don't even know it, so no entry into the book of grudges.

>>51260405
You need a lot less miniatures, but a lot more terrain. It's also fun but the quality is debatable. To get into Warhammer Fantasy, I'd reccomend picking up the fluff and maybe models from ebay if you like them and play any good, generic skirmish game with them. Head over to /awg/ if you want rulesets for that.

>>51260755
That's why I said that it "might require effort". The effort is optional.

>>51257311

>Malektih and Snorri make contact with barbaric humans
>Malekith argues that they might fall to Chaos and feed it
>Snorri convinces him that there is promise in them

the End

>>51258149
>I don't see what this has to do with Chaos.

Elves and Dwarfs were both created by the Old Ones to combat Chaos. United, Chaos would've easily been repelled. Instead, baseless elven arrogance doomed the world to the state it's currently in, forcing both dwarfs and elves to slowly circle the drain.

Basically, imagine if you didn't have one Rome, but two Romes, and the fall of these Roman Empires would never have happened if not for the fact that one of them had to go and - again, for no reasonable reason - wave their cock in the face of the other like an autistic arrogant degenerate.

>>51260795
Awesome! Thanks for the info guys. I'm trying to get a group of people into it, do I'll probably have to foot the bill on armies.

>>51261023
>Elves and Dwarfs were both created by the Old Ones to combat Chaos.

The Old Ones didn't know about Chaos at the time.

>>51261023
>baseless elven arrogance
>dwarves dindu noffin
Yes, that's exactly how it is written.

>>51261023
And everything could have been prevented if the High Elves just stuck to their god-given laws and accepted Malekith as holy shit why didn't they gas Morathi

>>51261100
They didn't.

Elves attacked their peaceful trade caravans repeatedly.

Dwarfs sent an envoy to demand an explanation and reparations.

Dwarfs increased the reparations due when the Phoenix King implicitly admitted guilt and insulted the envoy.

Dwarfs declared war when the elves mutilated their envoy.

You know wars get started over mutilating diplomats and raiding trade caravans, right?

>>51261280
>Elves attacked their peaceful trade caravans repeatedly.
This is kinda wrong and I'll give you a little hint why: Elves as an unified faction didn't exist as this point

Both acted retarded when they pissed each other off, both acted retarded when they didn't consider that someone wants to set them at each other. This is not the story of elves being at fault for everything.

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>>51257209

Can we please stop having these thread images with walls of text. Warhammer Fantasy has bucket-loads of great artwork.

>>51261431
Elves were elves, to the dwarfs, at that point. All the High Elves would have to do would've been to apologize and explain the situation. Instead they commited the highest possible disgrace imaginable upon an official ambassadorial envoy. They could've just as well have spat the King in his face, raped his wife and shaved every dwarf in existance.

>>51262251
>to the dwarfs, at that point
Doesn't excuse both of their behavior.
>the rest of the post
Christ, dwarves are easy to offend.

>>51262251
>All the High Elves would have to do would've been to apologize and explain the situation

>implying Dwarves would have apologised if the Chaos Dwarves had attacked the High Elves

>>51262554
It's a damn shame that Chaos Dwarves aren't more important, or any kind of evil dwarves. This race wouldn't seem so one-dimensional if evil dwarves would be much more prominent.

>>51262251
>>51262554
apologizing for something you didn't do is not a good idea.
however refusing to explain the situation and purposefully humiliating the envoy sent to clear this mess up just speak volumes.

I'm with the dwarves on this one, even if they tend to be full blown autists about other stuff.

>>51262384
You meaan the totally legit and understandable behaviour of the dwarfs? There's nothing to excuse.

>>51262554
Impossible to know, really. The Dwarfs exhibit a great sense of shame for their lost kin. Elves seem to be completely shameless. It's entirely possible that the mountain dwarfs would apologize and offer restitution, just to bury the whole thing, and would still consider them part of the people.

That said, I believe the dwarf split came after the War of Vengence. At least someone said that a couple of threads back when we were discussing Hashut.

>>51262701
Oh, they're autists alright. But the War of Vengence was caused by 110% condensed elven fuckery and arrogance. Dwarven autism have sundered entire holds, and is the reason the Chaos Dwarfs even exist. But the War of Vengence was a pointless war that allowed Chaos to take hold, and doomed two entire races to slow, lingering death.

Fuckin' elves.

>>51263243
Dwarven autism started this war too, them not being able to understand a "no, none of our elf guys did it" and then throwing a tantrum. Well, two tantrums, the first when they couldn't understand objections, the second when their precious hair got removed.

>>51260119
After almost destroying the world in the first place because one elf lost against hist boner.

>>51263243
The current status is done by elven arrogance and dorfen stubbornes.
Elves being to arrogant to say they fucked up and dorfs being too stubborn to forgive and start over.
Those two pricks took themselves out by being little cuntish children.

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>>51257209
>still putting the obvious bait hook "no end times" in the OP
>still responding to AoS trolls
>still responding to oldfag trolls and gongards
>in the current year
>mfw
Jesus christ, its like you people never learned. In the past 3 threads i saw more bitching about the fact that that line is there in the first place than actual discussion about end times. No one even talks about end times, and if they do it dies after like 2 responses. AoS is straight up off topic and theres a whole thread for that, which isn't full of gongards. Putting that line there just makes it so easy for AoS trolls and oldfag trolls to derail these threads

>>51263802
Just stop whining about it like a woman.

>>51259799
>dwarfs win
>immediately BTFO by goblins and rats
>elves lose
>lose grip on the beast and orc infested old-world, consolidate power in ulthuan, still remain the strongest, most far reaching force of order all the way through to the end

Dwarfs eternally cucked, even in victory they get blown the fuck out

>>51262384
>mutilate an envoy

>wtf you can't declare war when I respond to a valid complaint by committing an act of war!

deluded elgi wazzock

>>51264080
kek, elves had the literal favor of the creators of the world and could barely hold onto one island against their exiled BDSM brothers in Canada

>>51263911
Yeah, whine like a proper man!
Pussy

>>51264168
For the sake of joining this dick-waving contest between fictional races
It seems only elves are a match to other elves.

>>51257311
Because the Lizardmen only followed the orders of the Old Ones.

Humans were a failed experiment, but they kept failed creations around like messy inventors.

>>51264214
Well, that and the dwarfs, who beat the elves completely and made their king piss himself and beg for his life.

>>51264135
>complain that elves have killed members of the dwaren race and demanding clarification
Valid.
>having a bitch fit when the elf rightfully says that none of his own people did it
Not valid.

Though shaving the beards was too much, but I don't know if the elves at that point knew what this would cause. At the same time Caledor II isn't thought of highly by the high elves.

>>51264313
Well, after these elves have gone through several wars between each other, the high elves being already in decline because of that war with other elves, and after these evil elves instigated this war.

Don't know how the war would have ended if the elves remained an unified force, but the dwarves should be thankful that the dark elves exist.

>>51264380
>Don't know how the war would have ended if the elves remained an unified force, but the dwarves should be thankful that the dark elves exist.

Just as the elves should be glad that the chaos dwarfs exist.

>>51264614
There were no big wars between the two.

>>51264711

That doesn't change the fact that if the dwarfs and chaos dwarfs had never splintered, they would have an even stronger military force with which to fight the elves.

>>51264751
The Chaos Dwarfs didn't help the elves by decimating their own kin through war.

>>51264783

That doesn't change anything, though. The dwarfs were lessened by the loss of the dwarfs who would become the chaos dwarfs.

You cannot say "the dwarfs are lucky the elves weren't united" when the dwarfs themselves were a fractured people.

>>51264751
The dwarfs that eventually became the chaos dwarfs were nowhere near in number to the elves that joined malekiths cause, and had no real impact on the rest of the dwarfs other than shame. thats part of the reason they're so salty. The dwarf golden age came after the chaos dwarfs had already split away, and there were no massive, generation draining wars between the 2 factions.

>>51264380
If the elves were still united, that implies malekith is still king, in which case the dwarfs are absolutely fucked. elves would probably have the strength to go on the offensive and besiege holds and actually win.

>>51264852
>when the dwarfs themselves were a fractured people
As far as I remember the split between the elves were basically 50-50 or at least on such a scale that massive wars were possible, while the chaos dwarfs were some few dwarfs going eastwards and staying, when some of them thought this place sucked and went back. It's not comparable.

>>51261005
Snorri was pretty fucking right. Humans are the best defense against humans, otherwise there would have been nobody to protect the Waystones and Warpgate.
WotB would have happened anyway and all Elves would have left the Old World. Dwarfs would stick to the mountains. The only occupants would be an exponential amount of greenskins.

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So what lore unit, or character do people want to get the Ghorst treatment next?

>>51263415
The Dwarfs were never informed that Dark Elves existed. They only knew of an Elf civil war of some kind, and sold arms at reduced price to the Phoenix King's side because they figured the king was a legitimate authority. Because nobody explained to the Dwarfs that the king was an unnatural position and the queen was legitimate ruler.

>>51264320
The reason the war happened was literally because nobidy explained to the Dwarfs that a seperate faction of Elves attacked them.

The Starbreaker shouted down the nobles calling for Elf genocide and sent an envoy to Caledor II to ask why Elves dressed like his men attacked Dwarfs. Caledor II refused to even speak to the envoy. Angered by the insult, Starbreaker told the envoy to ask for the gold stolen from the caravans (fair, since it was basically forgiving the Dwarfs killed in the attacks). Caledor II had the envoy shaved and sent back.
The envoy was a relative of Starbreaker, and he had to take the Slayer Oath from shame.

THAT is why they declared war.

The war began due to Malekith's trickery and Caledor II being a huge bag of dicks.

>>51265097
Meaning buffed or get added to the game?

I'd love to see Ushoran, Abhorash, Neferata, Isabella, Krell, Bugman, Thorek, and Alrikson. As well as the Bloodswains, Coven Throne, Goblin Hewer, and Thunderbarge.

>>51261023
>Basically, imagine if you didn't have one Rome, but two Romes, and the fall of these Roman Empires would never have happened if not for the fact that one of them had to go and - again, for no reasonable reason - wave their cock in the face of the other like an autistic arrogant degenerate.
So basically what happened to Roman Empire after the split?

>>51264863
>If the elves were still united, that implies malekith is still king, in which case the dwarfs are absolutely fucked.

Probably not, because Malekith before his fall into lunacy and depravity knew and loved the dwarfs, and considered them peers - unlike almost any elf.

If he were king, the dwarfs and elves would probably still be on good terms.

>>51264320
>having a bitch fit when the elf rightfully says that none of his own people did it

He didn't do this, Caledor II refused to offer ANY explanation.

>>51260042
>Chaos' main foe are still the lizards
Yet chaos strikes not at lizards but at Cathay and Empire, lord of end times marches on Middenheim and is defeated there by humans, unliving humans and most badass orc.
There is no older races in this picture.

And if we go by the end times in which my knowledge is weak then end game is between Nagash(human), Sigmar(human) and Archaon(human)

>>51264614
>Just as the elves should be glad that the chaos dwarfs exist.
Not the same thing. The dark elves and high elves split apart in a civil war. They were the same culture, the same polity, but political disputes tore them apart and they've drifted further away ever since.

Chaos dwarfs and mountain dwarfs have a shared ancestry, but the former migrated east to colonize the Skull Lands, way back before the Ancestor Gods, even before the Coming of Chaos.

Dark elves and high elves are direct relatives. Mountain dwarfs and chaos dwarfs are just the same species, that's all.

>>51265217
>Caledor II refused to even speak to the envoy
Because he didn't answer to demands. For the high elves they came with baseless accusations, immediatley demanding compensation for something they could be dead sure to not having committed. Though even the High Elf army book makes it clear that Caledors behavior wasn't diplomatic. It's in general more admitting, calling the cause for this war arrogance of the elves and the stubborness of the dwarfs equally, while I can't find something like this with the dwarfs.

>>51265846
No, they demanded explanation first. Gold demands came after insult and a refusal to even say it wasn't them who attacked. Keep in mind the Dwarfs were selling the Elves cheap arms to help in their war at this point, making the insult even worse.

When a foreign ruler that you have an alliance of kinship with demands an audience, you are obligated to do it. Even if just as a token gesture.

Caledor II dismissed the fact that the Phoenix Kings had agreed to be considered equal to the High King. Even with the excuse that Elves naturally believe themselves superior, 2/3 of his predecessors had treated the Dwarfs as if literal brothers as had been agreed.

Don't get me wrong. I play both armies and have read the lore from both sides. Dwarfs and Elves are shits to each other, but the fault for the breakup of the grand alliance of Order is entirely on Malekith and Caledor II. Fuck, even in-universe the High Elves blame Caledor II as a supreme fuckup even if its followed by dismissal of Dwarfs as inferior.

>>51266246
>tfw Caledor II is the Donald Trump of WHFB

>>51265768
the lizardmen already had an end times level chaos incursion happen to them with vashnaar the tormentor and they handily defeated it. This was on top of dealing with near endless streams of daemons pouring out of xahutec. Weakening the geomantic web and taking the lizardmen out of the main fight was the set up for end times. Once they achieved that, the fabric of reality weakened and allowed chaos to pour into the world in unprecedented numbers, heralding the invasions of the other races. By that point the lizardmen had already given up and started making preparations to leave. Lizardmen were the foremost enemy chaos had to take out, once that happened, everyone else was fair game.

>>51266278
>>51266246
He's more like the Joffrey Baratheon of Warhammer. Childish, stupid, spiteful, vicious when he's safe, a mewling coward when he isn't.

>>51266596
>Childish, stupid, spiteful, vicious when he's safe, a mewling coward when he isn't.
Isn't that what I said?
Anyway I realized after posting this, this could start a /pol/ thing.
Sorry if this leads to derailing the thread, not my intention.

>>51266464
Not negating but this happened in the past.
At the "present" time I'd say that humanity is current bulwark against chaos, as lizardmen are confined to Lustria, elves are forced to fend of dark elves and dwarves don't have manpower left.
Before humanity it was the elves that were main power against chaos and before them lizardmen and before them the old ones.

>>51266679
Its a single guy trying to roleplay the Elf perspective I think, but its not outright obvious so people are mistaking it as a serious meta discussion.
Most Elves blame the Dwarfs to an extent and think of Dwarfs as savages or don't think of them at all, but its always been spelled out in all sides of the lore that the fault lies with Caledor II being a huge prick. The Elves and Dwarfs were looking for a fight at the time since there'd already been a few small battles, but Caledor II committed the entirety of Ulthuan's military into an avoidable conflict despite being in the middle of a war with another enemy regardless of the general belief being that it was on its last legs.

Let me put it this way. Imagine if World War 2 was just between England and Germany. America was supplying cheap supplies and weapons to England because they liked England and had a treaty of eternal friendship as well as monuments to friendship on both shores, but America doesn't really know about the conflict because England has kept it largely secret because its European business. England mostly beats Germany, but refuses to actually finish the war and decides to rebuild after the Blitz rather than actually marching into Berlin. So Germans take advantage of that and dress like the English and attack American ships full of supplies for England, and the Americans are confused. Some senators and congressmen wanted war and the public was divided, but the president sent a message asking for clarification because clearer heads prevail. The English refuse to even meet with the American ambassador, so the president sends England the bill for the stolen goods that were going to be sold to them anyway. The English castrate the ambassador and sent him back so America declares war.

>>51267853
England puts ALL of its military into the war and both sides refuse to back down until Queen Elizabeth II (merged with Winston Churchill for the sake of this metaphor) is killed in battle and the crown is stolen. Germany, having rebuilt its strength, attacks England and fucks it up good. Then the Dust Bowl happens across the entire US instead of just the midwest at the same time Japan and Mexico both invade the US.
England and the US are irreversably diminished and will never regain their strength or beat their enemies, and both are left blaming each other.

Hey guys, so I'm trying to scratch build my own witch hunter, I've managed to find the perfect body/arms/armament, I am however still looking for a suitable head(or to be more specific a hat) to top off the witch hunter

>>51266596
Leave your shit politics out of the thread

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>>51269348
https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/Bones/sku-down/77143#detail/77143_w_1

This guy is already just a Witch Hunter who needs one hand with weapon replacement.

>>51261005
>>Snorri convinces him that there is promise in them
Dawi and Umgi best friends forever.

>>51265097
ALBERIC

So what was the Great Maw?

>>51271146
In End Times canon? Who the fuck knows. The volcano erupted which the Ogres took to mean their war god wanted them to march. They encountered Grimgor who killed Greasus, and ever since then Ogres are Goblins with even less screen time.

>>51264956
Also, the mountain dwarfs still feel guilty for the Chaos Dwarf business, and refuse to discuss them. This suggests that they consider them fallen, but still consider them kin. I'm not saying that they would, but they could very well still be willing to take responsibility for their actions, on some level or another.

>>51264320
>having a bitch fit when the elf rightfully says that none of his own people did it
They never ever offered this explanation, though. The dwarfs are fucking unreasonable, but they're not stupid. Had the high elves apologized for their kin and explained the situation, there would likely have been no issue - in fact, the dwarfs would likely have helped the high elves in a war against the dark elves, seeing the dark elf betrayal as the highest acts of dishonor.

>>51271146
Nobody knows, and it's never explained. It's hinted at being some kind of extraterrestial being, but for all we know, it could literally just be a hole in the ground. It's entirely possible that the ogres themselves willed it into existence.

The funny thing is that there's supposed to be a hole on the other side of the world, too.

>>51263802
>complaining about meta posting in a meta post
anon you are the troll

Why wasn't there ever a witch hunter special character for the empire? not just in the rules, but also in the fluff?

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>Reading through the Thousands Thrones WFRP 2e campaign book

Did GW actually expect people to finish that?

>>51271674
>GW
Black Industries.

And why not?

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>>51270231
that is a good model anon, the shame is pic related.
looks like I am doomed.

>>51272549
oh nvm, further searching found him for 20 dollarydoos.

about the same price as the regular witch hunter. why is my life so doomed anons.

>>51271674
>The Thousand Thrones
I've only flipped through the book a bit, but it seems solid. I'd personally love to combine it with an overall campaign. What's the issue, Anon?

My dream-scenario would be to combine the two starting scenarios (Through the Drakwald (Core) + Pretty Things (GM's Pack) and then run Paths of the Damned with The Thousand Thrones thrown in when appropriate, essentially running them both concurrently (focusing on Paths of the Damned, but running the various Thousand Thrones scenarios in-between).

That will never happen, but I can dream.

>>51257209
show of hands, who here has ever played against a

>chaos dwarf player
>beastmen player
>wood elf player

>>51273910
i played a woodelf player as chaos.

>>51273910
I have a wood elf army and my friend has Beastmen.

Never a chorf though.

>>51273917
same
5 dead knights in one round from waywatchers
wasn't fun
I felt like a sloth trying to catch up with a laserbeam firing fox

>>51272721
Big WFRP adventures have this weird tendency to move between major cities.

The Thousand Thrones only does Marienburg - Altdorf - Talabheim
Paths of the Damned goes Middenheim - Altdorf - Nuln
The 3e Enemy Within goes Averheim - Middenheim - Altdorf
The original Enemy Within goes Altdorf(ish) - Nuln (ish) - Middenheim - Kislev - Altdorf

I wonder if there's a good way to leverage that.

>>51274793
;_;

>>51274793
>boys
>so fucking sexist
>so fucking ageist

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>>51274793

>>51273910
I played my second ever fantasy game tonight against a woc army ,and a dryad army. was famtastic, used 8th editon and the regiment of renown event pack

Chaos had a doom knight, 2 chaos war halberds and a sword and shield war.

welf had 8 angry dryads

I had a reikscaptain, an empire knight. a greatsword and 4 swordsmen.

notable things include the dryads surrounding the chaos players units one by one and ripping and tearing the chaos players units to shreds, then rolling 6 to ward saves erry time

>>51274962
>>51274973
That was from the first WD that I bought. It was packed with the stuff hobby dreams are made of.

>>51274962
>a mighty Wight Lord
>called Gaston
truly, undeath is a curse

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>>51274043
It's a bit odd, honestly. You'd think that the advancement system would lend itself to staying put and be an established character. It's not like a character couldn't live his entire life somewhere and somehow run out of things to do or adventures to be had.

It's also quite weird, because a lot of material hints at the characters' ties to various places, and motivations associated with that. There's also countless hooks being pitched that are always relevant to certain characters in certain areas. It's a little bit like WFRP2 sometimes doesn't know exactly how it's intended to be played.

It's similar to how some scenarios/adventures allude to players being "in the middle of their first career", even though characters start at the end of their first career, and how NPC:s often follow a very rigorous and straight Career path from bottom to top (look at ANY regional "Example" NPC in Knights of the Grail, it's basically Veteran->Grail Pilgrim->Battle Pilgrim->Champion or Knight Errant->Knight of the Realm->Questing Knight->Grail Knight. Despite the fact that the game lends itself to not planning things out rigidly like that, and advancement not being tiered. Seldom do you see an NPC that has taken a career from a lower "tier" or even the same "tier" as the one that they're on; but players can easily be expected to take a "crooked path" upwards.

Like, find me an NPC Wizard Lord that didn't go straight Journeyman Wizard->Master Wizard->Wizard Lord, even though that's pretty unreasonable, both mechanically and narratively (Journeymen are supposed to travel for a long time, and pick up other skills along the way, and entering Master Wizard means owning two magic items; Wizard Lord? Three, and twelve fucking grimoires).

I was playing with the idea of changing Paths of the Damned so it took place entirely in Altdorf. Could take some work, changing some names, moving some locations, but having not pored over the books, I'm not sure. Might be really cool, though.

>>51273910
>tfw you are the Wood Elf, Chaos Dwarf and Beastman player
I just like woodland hicks and Babylon, is all!

>>51275094
>Wizard Lord? twelve fucking grimoires

It's sad, the damage piracy has done to our society.

>>51275280
This whole "printing press" business really needs to be stopped before it takes off. The streets are full of agitators handing out pamphlets. I swear I saw a peasant earlier with a book. It's patently absurd.

>>51274962
>>51274973

What I really like about these older WD's is how the army shown isn't the more modern "One of every unit, look how cool they are buy now plz".

>>51271661
People interested in the idea wrote for 40k.

That's why the Inquisition has such a ridiculous amount of lore, while the Witch Hunters are basic.

>>51272562
Why not buy from the Bones link? Its like $4.

Get a bunch of skeletons to cut apart for basing and get free shipping.

>>51271661
Witch Hunters don't belong on the battlefield. They are cops, judges and investigators. That shit has no place in mass battles.

>>51275019
NOOOOO OOOOONE
KILLING BLOWS LIKE GASTON, RESURRECTS LIKE GASTON
NO ONE'S FINECAST HAS LESS BUBBLES THAN GASTON

FOR THERE'S NONE IN THE ARMY
WITH HALF THE STRENGTH
PERFECT, A PURE TEMPLATE
YOU CAN ASK ANY GHOUL, VLAD, OR WRAITH
AND THEY'LL TELL YOU WHO'S LIST THEY'D PREFER YOU BE OOOOON

>>51275492
Arguably they are more relevant than in 40k.
In 40k they have far more regulation, and have their own armies. Which were mostly neglected for most of the game history.

In Fantasy they have little restriction, and can command any military force in the Empire which is the posterboy of the game. They're also better at their jobs comparatively.

How old are Florin D'Artaud stories?

I like a short story centered around him, very nicely written and adds a little flavor to Bretonnia. But it inclides Lizardmen hatching from eggs - and not as an aside, it's a crux of the story that is heavily focused on.

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>>51275094
Something I really liked about the first half of the 1e Enemy Within is how much detail is put into the locations. Shadows over Bogenhafen is 69 pages and really invests in Bogenhafen with maps, guild politics, taxes and details of all the locations in a town with a population of 5k.
Compare that with the 3e Enemy Within, which is 196 pages and covers Averheim, the journey to Middenheim (615 miles), Middenheim itself, the journey to Altdorf (320 miles), Altdorf and an epic plot that includes the Emperor himself.
The Power Behind the Throne is 118 pages for the adventure (set in Middenheim), which is not including the 95 page guide to Middenheim (City of Chaos).

I'd love to see more material that's geared towards a specific place, just so you can be a Watchman or a Ferryman without having to leave your job in the first session to roam the wilderness.
Also, it's cosy as fuck. Death on the Reik is all about messing about with boats and cruising down the Reik, solving mysteries and trading as you go. There's a loose time limit, but for the most part you can just do what you want with a general overarching goal.

>>51275571
Wights didn't have killing blow in 5'th edition. They had to settle for making D3 wounds instead.

>>51275604
>In Fantasy they have little restriction, and can command any military force in the Empire

My ass any random Witch-Hunter can do that. Most Witch-Hunters are members of the Holy Order of the Templars of Sigmar, and that's usually about it. They can't just show up and pretend to have unlimited authority like a 40k Inquisitor can.

Nevermind that reality still applies in both cases - your authority is only concrete insofar as you can enforce it. This is extra true in Fantasy, where you can easily disappear, and can't play entire sectors against eachother if need be.

>>51275787
>Compare that with the 3e Enemy Within

Comparing anything 1e/2e to 3e is unfair. 3e is a hack-job in every sense of the word.

That said, I don't disagree. I think that part of the reason 2e (and possible 1e) did the whole "moving on" thing was so that new areas could be explored, essentially combining an adventure with a location splatbook.

For example, each part of Paths of the Damned has a big-ass section just for general stuff about Middenheim, Altdorf and Nuln. I really wish there'd been more about the travelling, though; it tends to be forgotten.

In-character terms, travelling from any one of these places could take weeks, even months, and you can't travel for much of winter (and sometimes spring and/or autumn). I was talking to a friend the other week about the prospect of getting stuck in a cave for two months, and realized that it could actually be a pretty awesome scenario.

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>>51276868
>Comparing anything 1e/2e to 3e is unfair. 3e is a hack-job in every sense of the word.
The strange thing is, the 3e Enemy Within was co-authored by Graeme Davis who worked on the best parts of the original too.
I feel bad about calling it 'the original', when the two adventures are completely different. That was just FFG leeching off the name.

>I really wish there'd been more about the travelling, though; it tends to be forgotten.
Travelling is hard. You don't want a monologue on the part of the GM, but there's limited scope for player choices. Glossing over it is unsatisfactory too. You need some detail just to give the illusion of time.

Death on the Reik did it well by making the journey part of the adventure. A Rough Night at the Three Feathers is also a good way of fitting something into a trip to break it up a bit.
The last session I ran covered a journey. I figured out the weather and some landmarks the players saw on each day of the trip, and added a couple of characterful NPCs they could meet on the road and a few hazards and it mostly worked out ok. Changing weather and scenery particularly helps bring it to life and gives the impression of a journey rather than just video game fast travel.

>>51277161
You Oregon Trail'd it. Nice.

>>51277161
>The strange thing is, the 3e Enemy Within was co-authored by Graeme Davis
You only have so much to work with. I mean, with the 3e system and tone, as well as fitting the entire thing in a single book, it could only get so good. When push comes to shove, the man's got to eat, after all.

If anything, I feel sorry for him, because he probably realizes that it's a pack of shit, but he did what he could with the tools at his disposal, fitting the parameters of the assignment. It's also entirely possible that he simply lended his name to the whole thing to give it a veneer of credibility or an illusion of quality.

>Travelling is hard. You don't want a monologue on the part of the GM, but there's limited scope for player choices. Glossing over it is unsatisfactory too. You need some detail just to give the illusion of time.

Yeah, I'm not going to pretend that I could do it well myself. I really think that if we're talking about moving long distances, you really need to, as you say, make the journey part of the adventure. It's probably not wrong to skip a bit, though; even though the risk is that it's a monologue on part of the GM. Travelling long distances is often a lot of the same, and given that it could take weeks or months of travel, it's unfeasible to take it day-by-day. Maybe. I'm not sure.

At the very least, narrating some changes in weather and scenery is probably a good idea. Maybe some pre-planned (non-random) events is a good idea, such as a cart (if any) getting stuck in the mud, forcing the players to get it loose somehow (or leave it), or a bridge that has collapsed. There's actually a lot of fun stuff to do.

The idea of the cave was actually sparked by the scenario of moving through Kislev, after an off-hand comment of life not working out as you intended (which is why it's a bad idea to plan out your character in WFRP2), and just like traveling, we came to the conclusion that such a mundane scenario could actually be a ton of fun.

>>51277626
A similar scenario could be engineered almost anywhere, although not as time-consuming as being stuck over winter in a forest cave in Kislev, by collapsing a bridge or flooding an area, forcing the players to wait at least a couple of days in one location, where they might be persuaded (or required) to go hunting, or investigate some standing stones, or maybe there's a murder. Small, one-off scenarios or encounters that ties into the idea of traveling and not ending up where you expected.

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>>51277675
I found this somewhere a while ago, and it is just about perfect. Just the right kind of weird for Warhammer.

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>Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels

Seriously, how can the Altdorfians put up with this shit? That's a front row seat to some reality-bending mindfuckery.

>>51273910
Have played against a wood elf player a couple of times.
I know a guy who plays beastmen but his visits are so irregular that I haven't had an oppurtunity to play against him.
No experience with chaos dorfs though.

>>51273910
I did

I remember fondly that time my oldblood took head-on the cannonballs and slaughtered the short gunline
or that time he made short work of 20 black orcs alone

I also remember one time during a large battle a cygor headshotting my stegadon turn one

I don't remember wood elves, honestly, or at least they passed unnoticed among the asur and druchii

>>51273910
Technically I count as Beatmen player I guess.
I have a complete army of unassembled models, I only ever got around to building the minoaturs I have.

Anway, I liked the Fairytale character. Just inexplicable pure evil. Also the 6th edition book had art that blew me away.

>>51273910
>Chaos Dwarf

Back in the 90's I think

>Beastmen
A few times

>Wood Elves
A few times. The best in 7th or 8th when they deployed a unit of Waywatchers in hard cover behind 2 units of Skeleton Cavalry.

"I'm in cover, come at me TK guy!"
"Ok, so your over half range, behind cover... that'll be 10 shots on 5's and then another round of arrow fire in the magic phase. Oh look, all gone. Your turn 1"

>>51280298
the army books were almost as much fun as playing

all that rich text and artwork

>>51278941
Better question is how did that not instantly prove that wizards are bad and not to be trusted?! The colleges should have been disbanded right there, and everyone involved should have been BLAMMED. It would set up a nice battle between the wizards and the sigmarite priests and witch hunters

>>51280482
P'shaw, it was only that one guy. The rest thought they were under attack. You could even say that they saved Altdorf from... themselves..

Sigmar x Myrmidia best pairing

>>51281142
>Not Valayaxall other gods

>>51281142
Sigmar x The Lady of the Lake because hatefucking.

>>51282184
back to back bros

>>51277884
fantastic, thanks!

>>51282184
>Oh yes! I'm not an icon of chivalry, I'm a dirty goddess laying with a crude human diety!
>Ulfric I - UNBEROGEN!
>...That's it? You humans don't last long with anything.
>Lady it's been over two thousand years since my last time, give me a break.

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>>51283420
>yfw grail damsels are canonically promiscuous, like ice witch levels

>>51283969

She's polished a few knight's helmets... if you know what I mean...

I mean fellatio.

>>51284317
>Mallobaude saw through her illusion
>when she succ so hard you nut her illusion to pieces

>>51283969
I thought Ice Witches were cold and aloof. Don't mind this headcanon though.

>you will never be a Knight Errant tempted to quest for the grail because of a damsel's alluring smile.

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there any conversion rules for 1e to 2e?

reading Castle Drachenfels module (Vermintide got me interested) and I do love me a good spooky castle with evil magical bad guy lurking around romp.

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>>51275571
but gaston is not an undead

>Lizardmen are biological robots

But isn't the coolest part about them how Skinks especially will do more than just mindlessly obey orders, but be proactive and develop their own rituals, worshiping things and bringing about gods like Sotek? If they were just robots, nothing would have changed since their earliest history, and that's kind of boring.

so no way to play mordheim online without a bought version? I just own the base game, but wanted to start a new warband and play a multiplayer campaign against a friend, so obviously tried a torrented copy.

Even evolve, which claims to work with mordheim didnt for us, couldnt figure why

>>51275492
>Witch Hunters don't belong on the battlefield.
which is exactly why the witch hunter unit exists in the empire army book, right? Or that they very frequently show up in th elope on battlefields, especially against vampires? its already been established that witch hunters fight, and we have generic versions of them. All i wanted was a buffed, special character version in the same way warrior priests have Huss, Knights have helborg, and wizards have gelt.

>>51285908
>hey Knight Errant, wanna SS?

>>51264303
>Humans were a failed experiment
Can someone tell me what they expected to be a successful experiment?

>>51289217
Elves with T4.

>>51285908
They are, but they still bang. They just give you the

could shoulder

is T9A fluff any good?

>>51281142
Sigmar is only orcsexual

>>51288641
Since 8th fuckind edition, and it was stupid when they introduced him. Witch Hunters investigate, collect evidence, sniff out the evil and then try to rip it out. Their expressed purpose is to uncover the corruption and destroy it. You don't need a fucking Witch Hunter on the battlefield, you already KNOW where the witch or the vampire is. Some of them may be competent fighters, but there are hundreds of those around. Any Greatsword should to just as well, if not better because he is actually trained to fight with his unit against a huge number of enemies. You need special tools to kill a Vampire if you are sneaking into his lair and fighting at an disadvantage. If you've got cannons, wizards and dozens of swords, you can confront him directly. You ain't going to stake a fucker if he's aware and moving around anyway. Saying that Witch Hunters belong on the battlefield because there are vampires is like saying that cops belong on the battlefield, because there are criminals around. It's just not their bloody job.

>>51289503
>is like saying that cops belong on the battlefield, because there are criminals around
you never read Pratchett's "Jingo", have you? you really should.

>>51289503
To be fair, a lot of witch hunters are technically templars, and their presence may serve a valuable morale purpose. After all, they are known for being able to stir and direct large forces of fanatics when the situation calls for it.

They also tend to have valuable intel that some random officer who bought a commission won't. It makes them well-suited to lead small strike teams against important targets in a larger battle.

>>51289577
your arguments will fall on deaf ears (or eyes, as it may be). it's been added in 8th Edition so it's obviously bad and wrong and anyone who thinks otherwise is obviously a GW shill.

>>51277884
Let's expand this list.

82. Deep in the wilds, the party comes across a ruined toll station, apparently long abandoned. As they pass it, a single goblin hops out, wearing the tatters of human clothing and a face full of white flour. He tells the party, in terrible Reikspiel, 'Dat e's da tollboss, 'n ya gitz gotta give sumfin to Boss Shigmar fee usin' 'is road.' He will accept coin but prefers fresh meat, and will make this preference known if the party have any livestock or pets. If the party resist this duly-appointed tax xollector, he'll scream for help from his friend - a troll sleeping under the nearby bridge or under a pile of garbage. You may want to give you players some manner of perception test to detect the troll early, perhaps by smell.

>>51289577
I converted a witch hunter and just used as a warrior priest

>>51289614

Buy that's right, 8th was shit

>>51289630
83. The players come across the site of a small battle between what looks to have been a band of 3-4 adventurers and a horde of goblins. Besides some poor quality weapons and leather armor bits, there's a lean, mangy black dog sniffing among the corpses. If it sees the PCs, it eill immediately start following them at a cautious distance. The dog is amiable enough and accepts pats and food, but isn't good at following instructions and will not fight unless cornered. Enemies generally ignore him, and he cannot be driven off save with dedicated violence. When he joins the party, all PCs have their fortune point max reduced by 1, even if this reduces the points available to 0. PCs who make a Magical Sense test or an Intelligence test if they have the Sixth Sense talent will have an ominous, uneasy feeling that they can pinpoint to the black dog.

>>51289740
84. While traveling in a rural part of the Empire, the party encounters a girl on the road, about 14, scrawny and lean. She wears furs and rags and carries a burlap sack, dagger, and shortbow. She's not much good at fighting, but excellent at hiding Navigation, Healing, and Outdoor Survival. She will claim that her cottage was attacked by brigands and her father murdered, and that she's traveling to where ever the PCs are going, since she supposedly has family there. If the players allow her to join, she will lend her skills to theirs for free, asking only for a share of food, some water, and a place by the campfire. On the second day of traveling, four hard-faced men, clearly killers, catch up with the party on horseback. The leader claims to be a witch hunter and demands the players hand over the 'tainted wyrd-spawn' they've been traveling with.

>>51257209
How often do spells backfire and actually harm the user to the point that the character has to be retired?

>>51290005
Tzeentch's curse only occurs on dubs, trips, or quads.

There's a 1 in 100 chance of any given tier bumping up to the next.

Really bad shit generally only happens at trips or quads tier.

>>51289896
85. The PCs come across a band of ogres and dwarfs screaming and raving at each other, seemingly on the verge of murder. A Common Knowledge (Dwarfs) check reveals that this is not an incipient battle but a rorkaz, a dwarfen informal shouting contest. Should the PCs charge in without thinking and engage in violence, both sides will be upset.

>>51290088
>Tzeentch's curse only occurs on dubs, trips, or quads.
>88
Ok, one roll for the curse please.

>>51290127
Afditionally: the PCs can participate, all counting as one 'team.' The skill test is Perform (Singer), or a flat Willpower test. The winning team will be feted by the other two with food or drink. The dwarfs have a barrel of best-quality ale, the ogres a barrel of poor-quality spirits. Of course, the winners will be expected to be magnanimous and share their winnings if they wish to part on friendly terms.

>>51290239
Check em

>>51290127
>>51290251

86. A unit of a couple dozen soldiers who have recently been demobilized harass an ale merchant traveling with his family, demanding he pay a 'tax' you've never heard of. From the sound of it, the merchant is foreign to this province. The soldiers' sergeant watches proceedings, cleaning his fingernails with his dirk, but is not intervening.

>>51291029
87. While lost in the forest, the players find out they're being shadowed by mutants. The mutants are of varying severity, but all avoid contact or combat with the PCs, using their superior bushcraft to fade away if pursued. Eventually, a group confronts the PCs bearing shortbows, cleavers, and wood axes. They number twice the number of the PCs and are equipped with some scraps of armor.

Their leader steps forward and quickly informs them that they're from a peaceful commune, and don't wish for violence. However, the PCs are too close to their camp and they don't want them there. The leader offers to guide the players back to the road on the condition that they swear to speak to no one of the mutants' presence. None show any apparent signs of Chaos worship, but their leader looks startlingly like a beastman...

>>51291194
88. The PCs come across a carriage that has fallen off a higher road into the one below, that is, theirs. The animals and drivers are, of course, dead - beer casks split, food gone rotten. What is mostly intact is a large, sturdy black box. As the players approach the crash site, they hear banging and yelling for help within.

>>51291711
I've been thinking of exchanging a unit of skyfires for either a changeling or a curseling.

>>51290259
>Handfrozen
>The bones and msucles of one of your hands (determine which one randomly) are frizen into an unnatural position by Chaos energy.
Though this is not painful, you cannot movie your fingers from their bizarre arrangement for 1d10 minutes.
Roll for which hand and the time.
No posting for you anymore for 1d10 minutes.

>>51291711
Might wanna move this to /aosg/.

>>51291837
I can type one handed, nerd.

>>51288040
Skinks are R2-D2's.
Slann are HAL.

The rest are varying degrees of Terminator.

>>51289217
Something Chaos couldn't tempt or trick, could use magic, were highly durable, and bred fast.

Ogres with the mind of Dwarfs and Elves combined is what they wanted.

>>51289278
Yeah.

Its like 6e Warhammer fluff.

>>51292400
Basically Dragonogre?

>>51292428
Those could obviously be tempted by Chaos.

They wanted something like Dwarfs where barring the small freaks here and there, Chaos has no ability to corrupt.

>>51292448
Dragonorge flat out made an agreement with chaos.
Not sure if this was because of temptation or because they hated their daddies. After all they didn't seemed to get much profit out of the deal.
If their immortality though was due their agreement with the Chaos gods I forgot. If so I take that back
Also Dwarfs can be tempted and corrupt by Chaos.
It's just harder.

>>51292128
I bet

>>51292537
Not serving the Four or Undivided when corrupted is part of it.

Chaos Dwarfs as a result don't advance the world towards the End Times, since they are not participants in the Great Game.

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>>51289217
The goal was to create a strong, resilient species that bred fast enough, but was also intelligent.

The elves were a good try, but they breed far, far, far too slow, and they're naturally attuned to the warp, so although they are capable of handling it with training, that makes them inherently corruptible. They are also relatively fragile.

The dwarfs were durable, extremely resistant to both the warp and physical threats, nearly cut off from the warp. But their resilience also came with their stubborn and uncompromising nature, and again, they breed far too slow, and they're the opposite of adaptable.

Humans breed fast, they're resilient, stubborn, they try again and again, and they're incredibly adaptable. Unfortunately, they are also inquisitive and inventive, questioning, and incredibly susceptible to Chaos.

Hafllings seem to have been early attempts at making the Ogres. They're resistant to chaos and breed fairly fast, but they are also disinterested in the world, and lazy little doorknobs. They're also weak as shit. But they're smart.

Ogres were the final attempt, a last-ditch effort; they breed fast, they're resistant to Chaos, they're violent and strong, and their hunger drives them onward, and they have all the wanderlust that the halflings lack. But they're dumb as shit. It's possible Halflings and Ogres were created to work in tandem, but that obviously failed - my own headcanon blames this on Cathay and The Great Maw, and the halflings getting eaten, but that's just me.

And just before leaving or dying, The Old Ones created the Titans (or Sky Titans), as caretakers or a last hope for the world. They were incredibly advanced and monumentally powerful, intellectually and spiritually gifted, and seemingly isolated from Chaos. But they were aloof (literally and figuratively) and fell to the Ogres after the coming of the Great Maw, and the few survivors became the massively inbred Giants as they are known today.

>>51286919
There's no conversion rules, but conversion is very simple, really.

>>51293769
Everyone is part of the Great Game. Individual Chaos Gods are a complete spook. Hashut is as much part of Chaos as any other Chaos God, no more of an individual than any other.

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>>51293847
I do like the idea of Ogres and Halflings being intended as mutually complimentary or symbiotic.

It gives Halflings a reason for... existing. Without that, they're just weird midgets that happen to live in a single place right in the middle of the Empire and humans are basically just fine with.
I figure that Humans are to Halflings as Gnoblars are to Ogres.
Gnoblars are Halfling substitutes. Ogres need little guys to sit on their shoulder and tell them what to do, so they keep Gnoblars as pets. But Gnoblars are thick as shit and so the Ogres have to do all the thinking themselves, which is why they exist as tribes of barbaric cannibals.
Halflings need big guys to cook for and boss around and do the stuff they can't do. So they made friends with Humans and get on pretty well with them. But Humans aren't as dumb or malleable as Ogres and have their own goals in mind, so Halflings end up living a reasonably peaceful life in their Shire equivalent and never get anything done.

The question, I suppose, is how they became separated in the first place.
The current inhabitants of the Old World are the descendants of both the Belthani - who were in contact with the Elves and possibly the Old Ones originally (The people of Albion are a relict population of Belthani) and also a group of Humans who came from the east, across the World's Edge Mountains. The WFRP 2e core book says that 'When Human tribes settled the lands that later became the Empire, Halflings, were apparently already amongst them'.
So perhaps they originated somewhere close to the Ogre homeland and became separated in some pre-historic era.

>>51294349
I can't really chip in on this, but maybe they moved around? Like how the Empire tribes came up from the South, or how the Dwarves were originally from the Southlands. I don't think the Halflings were always in the Moot.

>>51276019

Which would actually be better, they would shred ogres to bits

>>51293847
>they're resistant to Chaos
No they don't.
They are as corruptable as other races.

>>51291371
89. The party comes across a carriage that was recently the victim of a beastman attack. The only survivors are a craven, fat valet and a young noble girl, who demands in haughty tones that the party escort her and her manservant to safety, and only implies that there's anything concrete in it for them.

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>>51294349
>The question, I suppose, is how they became separated in the first place.

When the Great Maw came, my fully unsupported headcanon is that the Ogres simply ate most of them. The Moot is simply a very small, relatively isolated fraction of the halfling species.

Also, remember that in The Moot, there are Ogres, and it has been noted at times (I don't know if WFRP2 raises this) that halflings and ogres seem to get along. There's also a sizable ogre population in.. Ostermark..? I believe?

It's entirely possible that there were more unified before, but the halflings being largely sedentary and the ogres being relatively migratory, the coming of humans likely pushed them further apart. For all we know, the halflings used to employ ogres for all kinds of things.

It's important to note that even when working together, they would likely not have been able to stop Chaos - neither race is very inventive or adaptable, and even as a pair, they are flawed creations. It's also entirely possible that they were created to work together, but it simply didn't work out (maybe due to the migratory/wanderlust vs. sedentary).

I think that the fact that the ogres are always eager to serve ties well into these theories, but I've never seen the halflings particularly eager to command, which could also be perceived as an inherent flaw. One that was perhaps over-compensated with with the humans, who are always eager to command and always eager for more power. Halflings, on the other hand, are naturally complacent and non-authorative to the point of sometimes being unnoticeable.

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>>51294706
>No they don't.
>They are as corruptable as other races.

What? No, they're just as resistant as halflings are. Assuming you were talking about the Ogres. It's funny, because there are Ogres that sign on with Chaos, but they do so as mercenaries and because they're stupid, not because they are corrupted.

Inevitably, however, many do become corrupted during such servitude, but literally nobody, literally nothing is perfectly immune to Chaos. Chaos happily corrupts even inanimate objects.

The fact that ogres are resistant to Chaos is covered in both the 6th and 8th edition Ogre Kingdoms books, and many other sources.

>>51294706
>They are as corruptable as other races.
This is funny, because with the elves being so disciplined and careful, the dwarfs being resistant, the lizardfolk being resistant, the dwarfs being resistant and the halflings being resistant, "just as" is actually pretty apt.

That said, the ogres are actually resistant to chaos. The fact that they don't have Resistance to Chaos in WFRP2 is actually a fucking weird anomaly.

>>51294931
They can also mutate and get chaos marks.

>>51295013
>They can also mutate and get chaos marks.

Everyone can mutate and get Chaos Marks. A doorknob could mutate and probably get a Chaos Mark. It's not anything special.

>>51295103
Not halflings who are actually restitance to chaos.
>fight for chaos
>are branded as chaos
>show mutations that are signs of chaos
This is by any definiton corrupted.
Otherwise no chaos warrior is corrupted. They just choose to follow the dark gods.

>>51295103
Tzeentch works in mysterious ways.

SOMEONE IN 217 PLAY!
Pls respond

>>51295140
Resistance is not immunity. Both halflings and ogres are resistant. Neither is immune. This is spelled out in the fluff in no uncertain terms, separate from any gameist crunch. For example, pg. 8 of 6th edition, and pg. 11 of 8th edition, of the Ogre Kingdoms books. This is not up for debate. I am right and you are wrong.

>>51297266
Haflings have on WRPG the talent resistance to chaos with means by rule definition they can't get any mutations.

>>51297401
Nagash?

>>51298000
It appears so.

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Anyone know of any novels that take place in the realm of chaos?

>>51298367
Daemonslayer takes place in the Chaos Wastes.

>>51298367
>>51298384
The first Malus Darkblade novel does.

>>51298367
It's not a novel, but Liber Chaotica is stuffed with content about the Realm of Chaos.

Hey anons, I'm scratch building a witch hunter for 8th Ed, I haven't played many games of eight though so am after some feedback for the following. I'm planning to run him/make him with a brace of pistols and a great weapon, a the great weapon useful on wh?, would the braces of pistols 'melee' be more useful?

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>>51301408
Here is a mock up of how I want him

>>51297401
that's really fucking neat


what's up with the 8 lores' totems and the old school syrens?

>>51293847
how is inquisitive and inventive bad if they are primary results of intelligence?

>>51297330
Which is a rules abstraction. Fluff-wise, practically nothing is immune to chaos, including ogres and halflings.

The fact that the Resistance to Chaos Talent gives complete immunity to mutations and that Halflings have it but Ogres do not are rules oddities, nothing else.

It really shouldn't give full immunity, and both really should have it.

>>51303705
>how is inquisitive and inventive bad
>if they are primary results of intelligence?

These two things don't necessarily relate. But more importantly, being inquisitive and inventive makes you look at things you really shouldn't be looking at or into. A lot of humans are corrupted by cults simply because they want to experience what it's about, and many are corrupted by trying to do things they shouldn't be doing.

>>51303870
it is a natural result of intelligence, wanting to experience and categorise new things, whether they be natural phenomena or sensations.

Saying that they want things to be intelligent but then thinking that being inquisitive and inventive (practical results of that intelligence being put into action) being a drawback is fucking stupid.

>>51257209
>$85 cad for 20 skellies

Fuck that.

Though some of that concept art has me really intrigued.

>>51303955
There's a general correlation, but not a causation by necessity. Children are explorative, but you wouldn't call them intelligent. Ogres are inventive, but still fucking stupid.

You seem to have reached some conclusion that there's a causative correlation by necessity, which is wrong. You also seem to think that intelligence in this context would also always be something positive, but in regards to what the Old Ones wanted, this is simply not true. Even if inquisitive and inventive would be the same as intelligent, and it's not, the goal was something to resist and oppose Chaos, nothing else.

The dwarfs are a good example of what the Old Ones wanted in terms of intelligence without being inquisitive or inventive. Unfortunately, they turned out to be conservative and ponderous, meticulous and inadaptive to a fault.

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>play Warhammer total war
>Oh man this is pretty fucking cool, this would be fun to play
>Mfw the horrible truth

>>51304501
git gud.

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>>51304501
My condolences.

>>51304561

not OP but playing total wars for at least a decade
not only total wars are getting more shit but easier to in my opinion

game is really shat, even if you git gud
total war is dead, its time to deal with it anon

>>51304639
I believe >>51304501 meant that he was playing Total War and had a blast, and wanted to play Warhammer Fantasy Battles, only to realize that GW killed it.

>>51304682
Yeah that's what I meant. I should have been more clear. Shame because I was starting to enjoy the fantasy setting more than 40k

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>>51304720
I've always been a bigger fan of Warhammer Fantasy than Warhammer 40k, but I could never afford to get into the TT, and there never really were much else - and I could never find any groups for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, and I (and people I played with) thought it was a lot more dated than it actually is, and Age of Reckoning was great but had some major flaws and then it died, so I mostly participated in 40k stuff, the Dawn of War games, and played WH40kRP.

Then the Warhammer Fantasy games hit, interest soars, I finally get into WFRP2, we realize it's not nearly as dated as we thought it'd be (even though some things are better/more granular in Dark Heresy), there's tons of interest, lots of players, there's Vermintide and there's Total Warhammer, and..

...and GW kills the entire setting and launches the End Times/Age of Smegmar universe. An alien abortion with zero appeal, zero mud and near-zero connection to the original setting, it's themes, it's concepts, it's ideas, and all of it boiled down to this maximally vanilla, scrubbed, deliberately inoffensive and forcible inclusive, cringe-worthy shitstain.

>>51304639
its because you are getting older.
I went back to medieval 1 and the biggest hurdle was the controls.

Also the games play similarly because there's only so many ways you can form your armies up and bash the AI.

>>51303508
I suppose that he wanted to replace the Nine Books of Nagash with something to make it less End Times or it's supposed to represent the mastery of magic that the Crown of Sorcery grants Nagash?

>>51305086
Yeah, I had that experience with the Souls games. Once you get e hang of them they are very simple games.

>>51294837

90. The PCs come across signs of a running battle - the corpses of many beastmen. If they follow this gory trail, they'll find the corpse of a horse, and eventually a horribly injured, blood-drenched knight leaning up against a tree, the body of a massive bestigor nearby. As the PCs approach, he'll beckon them forward and in badly-broken Reikspiel charge them to return his sword, apparently to his father. Before they can ask too many questions, the knight dies. The only clues the PCs have to the knight's identity are his Bretonnian accent, his coat of arms on his ruined shield (four golden lions on a blue field divided by a white cross), and the sword itself - a hand weapon of Best quality, its pommel fitted with an ivory lion's head.

On one hand, it looks like this sword belongs to a rich family, and the PCs WERE charged with its return, for whatever they think that's worth. On the other, Bretonnia is a long way away and the blade is unlikely to be recognized by strangers should a player just decide to keep it.

>>51303508
>the old school syrens?
The whatnow?

>>51305193
I can see 7 books, 8 if we count the one he's got in his hand. I think that all the 9 books are there.

I have no idea what the Magic Wind Totems are. Looks interesting, though.

It's interesting that Nagash had such an amazing mastery of Dhar, and seemingly mastered all the winds of magic in a fashion, capable of creating Dhar at-will, and create true Dhar, and pull almost any wind out of Dhar.

All of this suggests that he had a supreme mastery of magic and was capable of intricately manipulating each wind separately, even as they were moulded or fused together in Dhar, even as they had degenerated into Dhar, or any variation thereof.

...yet he never used Qhaysh or seemed to have an interest in it, even though it is free from the corrupting influences of Chaos, because it is used in such an exacting, precise manner - a manner in which Nagash should've been able to use it.

It's just a bit odd, is all I'm saying. He must've knowingly and deliberately been foregoing it, and I cannot fathom why.

>>51305436
>four golden lions on a blue field divided by a white cross
Is this a reference to something I'm not getting? It seems needlessly specific for something the GM would otherwise just pull out of his ass anyway.

>>51305499
It's only specific to imply that he might be from Lyonesse.

>>51301408

Great weapons are meh on them.

Brace of pistol is good, as you'll be sniping lvl2 opponent's mages with it.

WH are a cheap MR2 source, so ram it into your bunker and/or into an unit you don't want to die

>>51305472

From a tabletop purpose, lore of High magic is really useful due to the racial attributes, and because it meddles a bit in every lore's speciality:

Dispelling enemies' spell, killing magic objects, many hits at medium strenght, teleportation, buffing your units, healing

Bit silly to use it if you've got the entire magical knowledge at your fingertips

>>51305472
I'm gonna guess that Nagash just enjoyed being evil.

>>51305669
Well I obviously meant from a fluff perspective. Crunch-wise, it makes complete sense that Nagash would be enormously limited. Fluff-wise, Nagash would wipe the floor with small armies all on his own - as would most Lorekeepers or, say, Teclis.

There's a reason WFRP2 straight-up says that High Magic or even just Imperial Battle Wizards are beyond the scope of the game.

Such things are OK in the modern tabletop, because it's intended to be a relatively balanced competative environment, but an RPG is meant to capture and convey the experience of living within the universe as narrated, at least to some degree, so it makes sense.

But from a fluff-perspective, I just think that it's odd that Nagash is using Dhar when there's seemingly little reason for him to do so. It might be easier, it might be more bang for his buck, but he should be able to pull High Magic for tons of shit.

>>51305585
But Lyonesse has a Red Lion on White as it's heraldry. Or were you hoping they'd connect the lion as meaning that it'd be a Barony in the Dukedom of Lyonesse? If so, you really, really give the players a lot of credit.

I guess someone with the appropriate Academic Knowledge or Common Knowledge could guess it.

>>51305708
Given how fucked he probably has been by using Dhar the way he does, it's entirely possible. He's probably completely devoid of emotion by now, and does what he does because he wants.

And if he can't enjoy things, why should anyone else?

>>51306069
It's not meant to be a direct link to the rulers of the duchy, just a hint based on theme. Alternatively, it could be a red herring for a DM to punish a metagamer. Academic Knowledge (Heraldry/Geneology) or Common Knowledge (Bretonnia) would prolly help ID the coat of arms, yeah.

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>>51305472
>The whatnow?
the girl-faced birbs

>>51306144
He also consumed a large amount of warpstone as well.

>>51306018

You got me backwards.

From the crunch, we can see that High Magic dabbles a bit in the area of expertise of every wind. Thus, someone that is a master of every wind, and is not susceptible to corruption by caos, will have little to no incentive to use it

>>51307463
So did Vlad though.

>>51308328
Not nearly as much as Nagash.

>>51305035
Total War Warhammer.
Its our last refuge.

Unless your community plays 6e, T9A, or KoW anyway.

Who was the youngest Bretonnian duke?

>>51309015
>Duke Cassyon is the youngest of the Dukes of Bretonnia, still in his early twenties. Nevertheless, he is a Grail Knight and rides a Royal Pegasus. His father died whilst Cassyon was questing for the Grail, and the young Duke knew nothing of his status until he returned to Parravon.
>The Duke’s counsellors find him very frustrating. He is an open and enthusiastic young man, bearing no malice towards anyone, which makes it almost impossible to dislike him. On the other hand, he believes he can fulfil his ducal duties simply by riding across the skies of the dukedom and striking down monsters.
>There is no doubt that he is good at that, but there are matters of taxation, justice, and administration that should also be seen to.
>Duke Cassyon’s prowess has not escaped the notice of the Parravonese, and the story that he is Duke Agilgar reborn has recently started to spread.

Does anyone know if there is a collected version of all the Stillmania articles? or do I have to go trawling through my White Dwarfs.

>>51310270
>do I have to go trawling through my White Dwarfs.
this

>>51310453
But they're in the loft. Oh well I'll have a look tomorrow I guess.

>>51292384
This is the best description of lizardmen I've seen.

>>51293847
>>51294349
>>51294851
Why did the old ones just move on from their failed creations instead of making them work together? Had elves, dwarfs, humans, ogres and halflings been combined in a tiered society like he lizardmen, they probably would have been the excellent weapon against chaos.

Also weird that they even bothered with humanoids in the first place, lizardmen were already perfect weapons against chaos

>>51310877
>were already perfect weapons against chaos
they're coldblooded though.
The can't go where the chaos guys are.

>>51310877
>lizardmen were already perfect weapons against chaos

I guess that's why agrarian Elves saved the world while Lizardshits just got their asses relentlessly pounded on by daemons.

>>51310877
>>51311131
when the old ones made the warhammer world it was a jungle world.
Lizardmen were everywhere.

Lizardmen armybook had a pretty complete account of the 'creation myth' behind warhammer.

>>51310877
They're kinda autistic, which makes them shit at adapting.

>>51311158
When the Old Ones arrived, it was during an ice age.
They moved it closer to the sun to warm the climate.

>>51310877
They didn't originally intend the world they were working with to be some bastion against Chaos. They were just mucking about and making things how they wanted to - Lizardmen were very organized, listened to them intently (and had the Slaan to act as helpers and middlemen for them), and worked as warriors when needed, but they were never supposed to be the main race or even a perfect race. They had always been working on a variety of races, tweaking and playing with different things. It's honestly like how most settings are designed, without a perfect race in mind but instead a few different kinds.

It's only when the gates at the poles crashed that they started re-engineering, so to speak, some of the races they'd made to fight against Chaos, and started making some new, specifically anti-Chaos races. The lizardmen were still their most loyal servants, but they could only do so much, and the Old Ones couldn't really take these peoples and societies they'd already built and mash them together in a way that'd last, so they worked with what they had to make each society a little more resistant against the Chaos Gods.

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>>51274793
The Red Duke is cool as shit. Pity that they never did do all that much with him, or try to make him look all that Bretonnian.

>>51310877
>lizardmen were already perfect weapons against chaos
that's the problem: the point is not creating a race of pure order, but a mix capable of mastering a balance.

humans got the closest, but chaos may have kicked in too much when the gates fell.

>>51310877
They are all different, and their societies are, much like human societies, based on biology. Forcing them together would've been disastrous, to say the least.

>lizardmen were already perfect weapons against chaos
Not even close. The vast majority of them are cold-blooded biological automatons. Not only have they not had an original through in their life, but they cannot function in the cold.

You know what's really fucking cold? The north-pole. You know what else? The south-pole. From where is Chaos raping the world?

>>51311158
>when the old ones made the warhammer world it was a jungle world.
This isn't entirely true, but more importantly, this was long before the gates went boom.

>>51307463
>He also consumed a large amount of warpstone as well.
I didn't know that, but OF COURSE he did. That won't have any lasting effect for sure.

He might actually be flat-out unable to use High Magic, then, given that his entire being is probably a swirling vortex of Dark Magic. Might actually unravel any attempt to weave the winds properly.

>>51258562
Lizardmen fought Chaos the most during the great incursion that happened when the warp gates broke. The last two Army Books actually had a lot about what they were doing while everything was going on in the rest of the world.

Many of the Slann are fighting a psychic battle against daemons within the warp itself, while the power of the Geomantic Web (anchored by the Temple-Cities), has been redirected to reinforce the Elven wards that protect the world from Chaos.

Before they decided to end things Mazdamundi (the oldest and most powerful of the living Slann) had just shaken off the lethargy that had stricken his species since the coming of Chaos to the world.

>>51259799
Hey, those continents needed to be moved!

>>51313031
Retconned. The reason why the Elves survived long enough to enact the ritual was because Be'lakor started the daemon prince wars in the north which distracted the Chaos forces long enough for the elves to complete the rituals.

>>51313031
I thought that the Slann couldn't even touch the ground, it was so saturated with Chaos energies. How would they survive in the Warp?

>>51313196
That sounds like shit. Be'lakor was a mistake.

I would have much rather have more information on Chaos entities like The Great Horned Rat and Hashut then more Be'lakor.

>>51315289
Faglakor does everything is mostly an ET/Age of Smeg thing.

Horned Rat may be the smartest of the brothers, considering he's the only one who always seems to be gaining ground.

>>51315397
Excuse my ignorance but
>brothers
It's a whole damn family?

>>51313196
Shitlakor does it again.

>>51315289
GW really parred some things down for reasons that I just don't really understand. I mean, not making more minor gods or mentioning the old ones, I understand that. But making it so that there are no Undivided Daemon Princes (at least in 40k, not sure if in fantasy)? Focusing everything on a few characters, instead of trying to revive old characters or make use of new ones? Simplifying the actual characters of already existing characters, like Archaon or Karl Franz (if in different ways)?

>>51257209
Why can't The Empire use High Magic? Horx learned it and the Empire went to the trouble or making sure it has teaching in all the lores so weaving it all together isn't implausible.

>>51317811
He got super fucked up by it though. Human minds can't handle more than one or two lores at best.

>>51257209
Hi, all. WFRP Enemy Within DM here, again.

My group is about to resume (with two new members), picking up from where we left off with Shadows Over Bogenhafen and beginning Death on the Reik. We are also getting two new members, bumping the party size up to six.

I was wondering if anybody with experience playing Death on the Reik had suggestions for improving it? I'm gonna bump up some of the enemy totals to deal with the fact that we have six dudes now (even if one of them is a useless wizard's apprentice).

The party consists of:
Human Vagabond
Human Burgher
Human Wizard's Apprentice
Dwarf Watchman
Halfling Valet
Sixth Character yet to be determined.

>>51311655
I think his model might have been made before they redesigned Bretonnia in the 5'th edition.

New thread ye this way.
>>51320086
>>51320086
>>51320086

>>51305035
>Age of Reckoning was great but had some major flaws and then it died,
There's RoR though

>>51316269
The Chaos Gods are often styled as 'brothers.'