/epg/ - Eclipse Phase General

>>51242082

So, let's begin with a real topic.

How do you utilize a disease or plague in EP, in typical disease disaster movie fashion. Terrorism? Science gone wrong? Aliens?

How do you build your plague movie plot?

>>51242134
I'm thinking for an actual plague, not Exsurgent craziness. I don't really buy a naturally spreading plague being able to move between Habs, as they're very far apart, and most travel doesn't bring a body along. Public health is also good enough that I'm not sure how easily a nasty disease could appear without external help.

I think I'd do something with a group spreading something nasty to catch, and very fast spreading. As an act of terror, inflicting horrible symptoms would be more important than piling up bodies. It's easier to put morphs in a healing vat than fix people's bad memories.

So probably something which spreads really quickly and attacks the nervous system and mucus membranes. The idea is to cause all kinds of nasty "phantom pains" by messing with nerves while causing as much bleeding as possible.

Spread it across habs in several permutations, and try to make it trigger medichine freakouts and autoimmune disorders, hopefully get some false reports made to slow down response for a cure. I'd probably have it be spread by neo-prims or a pro-synth group.

>>51242172

> as they're very far apart, and most travel doesn't bring a body along.

Also, you kind of mention this with the distance, but specifically most hab travel is very slow. On Mars or Venus or Luna you might try and get like, a planetary plague going - but at it's fastest travel between mars and earth's orbit is like, a week - much more likely in a standard ship going a day. Travel to the outer system takes many months - you'd immediately know a ship was a biohazard well before it got there unless you engineer some crazy high latency in it.

On the other hand, that could also be a movie plot, get a bunch of people (maybe bioconservatives) on a "luxury" cruise, drop the super-smallpox on them - consign them to die in the void of space. That would not kill a lot of people, but it would probably be pretty flashy. Get a lot of media coverage.

>>51242290

>a day

Month, I mean. Pardon me, I am actually sick.

>>51242134
>How do you utilize a disease or plague in EP,
by not doing it:
>in typical disease disaster movie fashion

Those movies are always terrible anyway. Nothing of value is lost.

>>51245683

Okay, but if your follow up is "disease is for Luddites and flesh bags - biomorphs and physical instances are so primitive" we're gonna start another shitfit.

>>51242134
Exsurgency and nanoplagues sort of supplant conventional diseases in terms of how they play out narratively, in my opinion. With a "generic" plague I would feel the need to point out that it's somehow a Very Special Thing, due to the ubiquity of implants and medtech and such. Something like a virus designed to target a specific type of morph, or some gross superparasite made with transhuman tech. Another way to do it would be to actually consider what implants such as basic biomods, medichines or toxin filters do, instad of "panacea magic", and then address these limitations by introducing something they cannot handle.

That said, I don't find scenarios centered around a plague very compelling unless it's a "get out of here ASAP" sort of scenario. I'd probably use it to supplement other things I have going on as a GM. Like having the villain throw a biological agent at them as a setback, and while they're trying to figure things out I completely inconspicuously present them with an option to bypass it entirely by going synth. Because I have a raging hardon for slowly indoctrinating my players into exhumanism.

>>51246115

I will say, last thread we did have a couple of interesting ideas for sickness and diseases which would fall under the "Pathogens" category in the gear chapter (which is pretty slim and so far nothing else has really been added).

In addition to just genemoding conventional bacteria and virii so they exceed expectations of Basic Biomods (something we know happens, it's mentioned in Sunward) some specimens which do different things. I quite liked one anon's ideas about the virus causing some kind of junk data input that puts a backdoor in the cranial computer through the medical sensors, or syndromes you get from bacteria biomods attacks doing horizontal gene transfer so your biomods end up a little mutated and need to be patched.

Beneficial or "not technically harmful" microbes is another interesting area. The polymer eating one was mentioned, of course (though that's not strictly original - Solemn did it first and better). Another idea is a waste-disposal microbe which if it happens to contaminate biomorphs regularly (leaky or faulty water recycling system for instance) it might cause a reaction similar to food poisoning or an allergy as it attacks your food and waste before your own body can properly process it.

Here's another idea which would not technically be a traditional sickness, but works similar to one - bacteria which are created to produce hormones or chemicals in the body which can make you more open and affectionate - a literal love sickness. Not necessarily harmful by any means, but an interesting bit of fluff to come across - not stopped by Basic Biomods because they just seem like perfectly cromulent smart microbe just like all the other shit in the biomod package.

>>51245718
That is not my followup. My followup is that basic biomods will take care of 99% of problems. If you're a luddite without basic biomods, you're going to have a bad time. Even in the 1% case there's tons of technology to identify and isolate problems, and habs make it really hard to spread illnesses by accident.

>>51247825
>>51248660
>>51249674
Try posting discussion not the same images again and again and again.

>>51245718
I think Eclipse Phase should go into more detail about environmental hazards for synthmorphs, it's not really clear to me what limitations they have, because RAW they're basically better than biomorphs (though often more expensive for what you get). Stuff like how long they last without needing a recharge or similar would be nice as well. I've tried to do a bit on my own but I'm not really sure where to start.

>>51250124

>all of these posts are me
>the OP is also me
>as is the question in the second post

I can only do so much man. I do not yet possess multitasking implants.

>>51250124

As for the question, power is kind of... generalized? Much like computing, internal power is generally assumed most of the time, unless you're in nowhere for a long time - for which there are several options to handle (Re: GatecrashingI don't know if batteries have generic rules you could pull from for Synths - I do not recall them.

Several environmental conditions do also have effects on synthetics though

File: ghostbusters.jpg (69KB, 600x300px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 600x300px

>>51252499

>>51253013

Firewall needs like, one more syllable to properly sync up with "Who you gonna call?"

Because when there's something weird, and it don't look good, who you should call is your nearest proxy.

>>51253051
>Who you gonna call?
Definitely not some secret organization that will psychosurgery any knowledge of it out of me

File: go to rpggnet and bring back something nice.png (52KB, 1772x448px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 1772x448px

>>51242082
Well, /epg/?

>>51253176
Why would I ever go to that horrid place?

>>51253176
Have you read Cthulhutech? It's a cool idea, but it was done very badly. It has no legitimately interesting ideas in it, and they're probably tied on game mechanics.

>>51253101

Well, it doesn't matter who you call, some organization matching that description has the line tapped.

>>51253236
>organizations*

>>51253219
Let me rephrase. The premise is cool, but it contains no legitimately interesting ideas examined in the way they are in EP.

>>51253176

Cthulhutech tries very hard to do everything, is full of fetishes and references, and is shittier for it.

Eclipse Phase tries very hard to do everything, is full of fetishes and references, and is better for it. Probably because it's mechanics are dirt simple at heart and the game actually lets you play whatever the fuck simultaneously. Also, the first hit is always free.

>>51253176
I've always loved the fact that the EP team made the case that open sourcing is a potentially effective business model, put its money where its mout is, and succeeded.

>>51253441
It's a pity that the devs then pissed away all the goodwill it earned them by being insufferable SJW douches who told people who disagreed with them politically to "fire themselves as fans".

>>51254336
Wasn't that just one person?

File: ExhumanBacteria.jpg (218KB, 300x913px) Image search: [Google]

218KB, 300x913px

>>51242134
I was just reading through random parts of X-Risks and I noticed this, it might be an interesting alternative.

File: ExhumanParasites.jpg (83KB, 287x431px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 287x431px

>>51258274
And part two. I think this could fill the movie plague role quite nicely, actually. Set it on Mars or Venus or Luna, as stated earlier, and it would be interesting.

File: Defiler.png (1MB, 661x1544px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 661x1544px

>>51258468
>>51258274

Exhumans a hell of thing

>>51259226
How many exhumans are in that picture?

>>51259362

Probably technically one - the parasite/juvenile forms of Defilers aren't actually sentient.

>>51259434
Of every clade or one example clade?

>>51259459
Exhumans are way too varied to reliably say things about more than one clade. Rorties always come in groups for example.

File: Dreadnought 1.jpg (275KB, 1280x768px) Image search: [Google]

275KB, 1280x768px

>>51260103

Rorties come in groups or ARE groups?

>>51263164
yes

Luckily, when argonauts finally come out, we'll have some new art to post.

>>51254336
>all the goodwill

lel

>>51263164
I guess that lower gravity means that ground pressure is reduced, but this still bothers me.

>>51266505
Making their game free to use is pretty based, anon.

>>51267838

Actual Dreadnoughts can also vector thrust and some other mobility, I think.

>>51268082
I just looked it up: 3/15 Walker, 2/10 Vectored Thrust

While vectored thrust is all well and good, and could certainly help in low-gravity, we're talking chemical rockets or cold gas rockets. It's going to be extremely inefficient, especially in low-to-medium gravity with an appreciable atmosphere.

>>51268082
Plus that's not a picture of a dreadnought

>>51268230

No, but >>51262261 is.

>>51268831
And that looks way better in terms of ground pressure. For one thing it's probably not much bigger than a mid-size sedan, and for another its feet are more reasonably shaped.

>>51268899
I also imagine that as Rorties seem to care a lot mineral resources that they generally operate on pretty solid ground.

>>51268196
Depends on if they have oxygen to burn or at least gas to compress. In the right atmosphere Rorty Dreadnoughts might be fat attack helicopters.

>>51270887
The soldiers never look very, umm...official, in the little artwork we see of them. I don't know, maybe I'm just not a fan of skintight uniforms with no helmets.

Also, you guys got a mention on /pol/ earlier.

>>51270446
There are tons of minerals that are found in clays and they don't pick where the gates are

>>51272683
Did pol say nice things?

>>51270446
>oxygen to burn or gas to compress
There's not going to be enough to make >>51262261 skyworthy.

>>51273693
Have you ever seen a Hind?

File: Superhind.jpg (147KB, 1280x960px) Image search: [Google]

147KB, 1280x960px

>>51273741
With armor designed to withstand .50 caliber machinegun fire

Would the malleable mind trait apply to psychosurgery for the purpose of fork merging, and if so would it stack with ego plasticity?

Also, in jurisdictions where alpha forks are illegal, would they care if a visitor was an alpha fork as long as only the one copy was present in the jurisdiction?

>>51273741
They have winglets and a large rotor. It's also much longer than it is fat.

>>51274226
No. The fact that it exists as a separate trait should tell you that.

>>51274244
Probably, if they knew about it.

>>51274281
>They have winglets and a large rotor. It's also much longer than it is fat.

Perhaps it can reconfigure. Also, 2/10 is half the standard on-foot movement speed.

>>51267838
>Making their game free to use is pretty based, anon.

I was mocking him/you for implying that them openly expressing their left-wing political views would cost them much of their fanbase.

>>51259434
There are two; the one in the front and the other stored in the file itself.

>save this image as exhuman.hta

>>51276518

Note: not an exhuman. Probably. Maybe.

>>51273475
It was in some kind of thread about fictional fascists, they brought up the Junta. 40k was also mentioned in there somewhere. But they had the typical /pol/ opinion you would expect on this game. Let me see if I can find the thread. It was a while ago.

>>51277555
Found it
>>>/pol/107488583

>>51277752
I'm concerned about his conflation of transhuman and having a cortical stack.

I recently made a character that was a post human hell bent on never dying. He didn't have a cortical stack but had built his body to be redundant in every possible way. He thought that if he died he died for real, regardless of whether or not he was booted up from somewhere else. He had to maintain stream of consciousness at all costs with no breaks. So no egocasting, dying, or body swapping with him being completely put out.

>>51277849
That's an interesting way to play. I've never heard someone do that before, but that definitely sounds like something someone who wasn't convinced on the continuity of conscience question would do. I would also imagine that the person wouldn't be particularly thrilled about taking risks, since they both plan on living forever (unlike the Jovians) but they don't believe in "resurrection" (unlike the rest of transhumanity).

>>51278909
>someone who wasn't convinced on the continuity of conscience
I don't get how this is treated as a question of fact. It's clearly a question of definition.

File: 0bc3a1d870dc550ae02ed1273be5fc6017f83dc1.jpg (343KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

343KB, 1920x1080px

>>51279736
I don't get how people think playing a character that doesn't accept the continuity of conscience thing is a good idea for a character. You die, that's it. Can't egocast anywhere. It's like spending all your starting CP on a tricked out custom morph... sure, you can do it, and it makes sense that there are people in the setting who'd opt to do that sort of thing, but it holds the rest of the group and the game to ransom for the sake of your fucking character.

>>51278909
Yeah, I imagine when the game gets going he'll be the most hesitant to do stuff. He kinda gets roped into the whole mess with Firewall because it's going on in the Brink near his hab. It depends on how the GM decides to justify it, but it's probably going to come to Firewall literally putting a gun to his head. Maybe dangling a nice enough carrot.

File: ArielMorph.png (510KB, 628x1520px) Image search: [Google]

510KB, 628x1520px

Also not an Exhuman - maybe.

>>51279809
Yeah, you do need to either be playing a solo game (which doesn't really work so well with Eclipse Phase) or have everyone be on board with the mortality (like a Jovian squad or religious group or something)

>>51281612
I have never played a single second of Eclipse Phase in my entire life, but I was looking for a winged power armored suit that looks bird-like for a PC pic, and while browsing /tg/ I just saw this and I just need to thank you for posting this.

>>51279809
Depends on mode of play too. But for a game where either you are hanging out in one place like Mars or otherwise avoiding egocasting like a gatecrashing game it would be more viable. But if it's a straight-up firewall across the solar system game it would be a major dick move

>>51285390
>want to avoid resleeving
>gatecrash

>>51285112
>I have never played a single second of Eclipse Phase in my entire life

You'll fit right in here

>>51285662
Heck, I've never played a single solitary roleplaying game yet I love hanging out here

File: skull.jpg (75KB, 564x762px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 564x762px

So, assuming the TITAN's are gone for good, what do you think will happen to everyone in the solar system in the long term, given say 50 years, then 200 years, then 1,000 years, and so on.

Will really much of anything change? From what I've read so far, while individual actions can have huge effects (like say, some terrorist blowing up a habitat), the factions are all really balanced against each other in such a way that whoever makes a move loses, so it's a permanent cold war.

>>51287512
>permanent cold war.

Absolutely not. The Jovians in particular are rapidly falling behind on technology and soon their large fleet will not suffice.

File: pilot.jpg (59KB, 564x798px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 564x798px

>>51287596
Okay, but what are they gonna do to adapt? And who's gonna make a move on them? I think it'd be naive to think they'll just be crushed without adopting new strategies and tactics, not when they know the gravity of the situation. Besides, we already know they are okay with spec ops being all geared up, it's not that far of a stretch for them to start using alpha forks and maybe even AGI's (since as the Fall moves farther and farther away AI and transhuman paranoia will likely decrease).

Let's talk about other groups too though. I can't really see much happening to the MC, the LLA seems pretty stable and unless some internal instability occurs the PC and LLA should be set for a while now. I don't think they are running short of egos to cast into robots either. The AA seems pretty stable, but I could definitely see the occasional accident gone horribly wrong causing problems in the future.

File: the monarch and doctor missus the monarch.jpg (174KB, 1600x1163px) Image search: [Google]

174KB, 1600x1163px

>>51287596
>>51287512
The possibility of the Jovian Republic collapsing or losing a war with one of the other factions and being occupied fascinates me. All the other factions in the setting fiction talk about the Republic as if its people are yearning to be free from their oppressive government. But if you actually read Rimward it strongly hints that its people actually support the state's authoritarian and bioconservative policies and in some cases don't think they go far enough.

It's fun to imagine the Titanians expecting to be greeted as liberators, and instead meeting fierce resistance or even mass suicides, as people are terrified of 'monsters' taking over their streets.

File: quad.jpg (251KB, 1178x505px) Image search: [Google]

251KB, 1178x505px

>>51287963
Yeah, wasn't there that one local terrorist group, called themselves the Spear of Longinus I think (wiki is down right now), and enjoyed huge support from the public despite basically being the Catholic version of the KKK.

Regardless of how much resistance the official army puts up, the occupiers would either have to be willing to commit genocide or face a very heavy resistance.

>>51287823
Most likely the Argonauts (or more likely an ASI using them) or the photo-exhuman parts of the TC would make a move. Not using ASI/fork choirs and such for research will put the Jovians in a bad spot in coming years and decades. An understanding of physics which matches the fall-era TITANs should become possible to more forward looking factions, and a big fleet isn't enough to stop that kind of force from subverting you.

As for the other factions:

>Morningstar
I think they're a little crowded out by other inner system groups. Between that the and gate they well control as well as groups like the Synergists which live there I think they'd expand heavily in an extrasolar fashion, trying to use extrasolar resources to help Venus as trade leverage for the solar system.

>Planetary Consortium/LLA
They're more stable and well established, so I don't think they'd rush extrasolar colonization quite as hard as the MC. The LLA is on the ascent right now, while the PC slows down from the initial terraforming frenzy around Mars and could become a major power block acting as a viable alternative to the PC for many habs. This would probably drive competition between them and could mean culture wars and more political power for habs.

>Tharsis League
I could see them becoming more independent as Mars becomes a nicer and nicer place to live. Those city-states would become very strong quickly.

>Titanian Commonwealth
As a highly technoprogressive faction with a lot invested in fundamental research they're likely to change a lot. They could easily become essentially prosocial posthumans with a lot of fairly wondrous technology above many other people.

cont.

>>51288016
>Anarchists/Scum
They're another faction which I see exploding through the gates. A lot of them are stuck is suboptimal parts of the solar system, so stretching legs on aliens planets seems like it would be right up their alley. They're also likely to become a somewhat more cohesive group in system thanks to how much they like to travel between habs so effective/popular cultural memes should be more and more evenly spread.

>Jovian Republic
I think the SC realizes the danger that bioconservatism puts them in long term. Part of the reason for it is because of how bioconservative their population is. I could see a SC enforced techno-liberalization and modernization of the Republic, especially as the dangers of resurgent TITANs and Exsurgent outbreaks start to be replaced by supersession of their culture and technology by other transhuman groups. Obviously large parts of their population don't agree, so groups like JAC would probably fade out to be replaced by SoL and similar more and more. I could see them working with the LLA a lot, as they'd wind up quite close culturally and ideologically. Perhaps that union is why they can challenge the titanic Consortium.

>Ultimates
I'm assuming that their plan to seize the gates either fails quickly or isn't attempted. They're already rolling out through the gates, and would become one of the 4 major extrasolar powers (MC, Anarchists, Exhumans, Ultimates). They likely continue on their current trajectory, though I could see a large split forming between the old guard and new blood.

>Argonauts
They stay ahead of the tech curve and get braver and braver with ASI use. Even more ASI-cultists than they are now. Hopefully keep their current open source commitments.

cont.

>>51288084
>Firewall
With more X-risks avoided and Transhumanity spreading across the Galaxy Firewall likely becomes more of a semi-hidden policy think tank and less of a group of elite wetwork goons. The skills needed to stop Exsurgents and breakaway tech are proliferating.

>OZMA
Who really knows DESU. Depends a ton on their characterization.

File: crouch.jpg (210KB, 697x1139px) Image search: [Google]

210KB, 697x1139px

>>51288016
>>51288084
>>51288097
Very nice, very detailed predictions, I like it. A modernized JR would be interesting, I wonder how they would retain their conservatism and cautiousness relative to everybody else while still remaining competitive. I think the most likely path they'd take is using AGI's and alpha forks heavily, but refusing to treat them as normal humans, instead thinking of them as soulless tools. Even more interesting would be how the forks and AGI's themselves would react to this treatment. After all, if you believe that forks are soulless tools, then you are a fork, do you continue to hold that belief, or do you change it?

But yeah, Firewall will probably become less important as the established factions become competent enough to handle these things on their own. Maybe they'll exist just to keep stuff out of the hands of OZMA in the future, who knows.

>>51288016
Why would the Argonauts or proto-exhumans of the Commonwealth do it though? There would have to be some reason for an invasion of the Republic, and that'd probably end up defining who goes in to do it, why, and what sort of outcome you could expect. A war for "liberating" the people of the Republic would likely pan out very differently from one that's a naked resource grab, and would also likely have different polities fighting it in each case.

>>51288184
I'm not really envisioning a conventional war. More of a massive and sustained cultural subversion intended to convert the significant and reasonably isolated Jovian population into members of probably the commonwealth. The Argonauts are the other factions which I think would have the technical knowhow to do this. I suspect the Exhuman-y Titanians would be interested in this because of their historical friction with the Republic and because a common ground for Exhumanist thought is the need to acquire new egos/experiences to grow the mental diversity and strength of the group or individual.

>>51288179
Treating forks as souless tools is the de facto standard for the solar system, so I think they'd do something else. Perhaps escaping forking stigma by treating forks as legally separate and independent *very similar people* sort of like spiritual twins which appear for a limited time and can be recombined. This could be theologically supported by ideas that the soul, being immortal can be losslessly divided into parts, so long as it is for finite time. As such merging experiences would be an essentially religious experience, and would be absolutely critical, as if any fork dies, so does a part of your soul.

That'd mean they wouldn't ever dream of stuff like disposable forks or maybe even beta forks.

I'm less sure about AGI. That might be a self-solving problem though as the longer the TITANs stay gone the less threatening AI will seem. I suspect a similar humanizing could take place. Essentially seeing AGI as souled beings created by man to aid them.

I personally like the idea of bioconservatism evolving into (or just being) a sort of religious or spiritual movement working for the basic dignity and divinity of thinking beings. It makes a good contrast to the hardline Monist Materialism which seems to underly a fair amount of Tranhusmanist thought.

>>51288457
For a "cultural invasion" of the republic I see this as primarily a problem for the government or SC, as they would lose their position of power if something like this were to happen, and they would prefer to oversee a Jovian modernization rather than be swept away by it.

File: machgun.jpg (701KB, 1250x686px) Image search: [Google]

701KB, 1250x686px

>>51288457
That's actually really brilliant. I'd imagine that quite a few of the smarter AGI's and forks that go "rogue" would try to make their way to the Jovian's under such circumstances. I feel like the Jovian's would also adopt something of a martyr complex after a while, because they'd still have to match the opposing forces in numbers and expendable morphs, their views of these morphs as their own unique person would mean that from their perspective quite a lot of people would be dying in any conflict that springs up. The only issue I could see is with the Catholic Church, since IRL their current policy is that all AI would be soulless, but maybe that changes in the future or protestants take over.

>>51287823
>Besides, we already know they are okay with spec ops being all geared up, it's not that far of a stretch for them to start using alpha forks and maybe even AGI's (since as the Fall moves farther and farther away AI and transhuman paranoia will likely decrease)

Sure. They might. But that paranoia is the only thing currently preventing them from aligning with another faction, upsetting the balance of power.

>>51287963
A war of occupation is incredibly unlikely because people aren't that stupid. A far more likely scenario is the liberation of a few habs the Junta didn't like much anyway and the reduction of its sphere of influence. Also maybe some sanctions.

>>51283523
Given the context of that Magazine, I feel like it should be Anarchist rates the Jovians.

File: 1466716018831.gif (93KB, 500x330px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 500x330px

>>51293350

File: TITANWaifu.png (309KB, 534x428px) Image search: [Google]

309KB, 534x428px

>>51293938

File: planefucker.jpg (952KB, 2784x1200px) Image search: [Google]

952KB, 2784x1200px

>>51293948

>>51246501
Does anyone actually make biomods not able to catch every single conceivable disease in the entire universe except for wacky alien or exsurgent shenanigans? I know it's "canon" that they make people immune to every single disease known to mankind but who gives a fuck about EP's canon?

>>51294668
>I know it's "canon" that they make people immune to every single disease known to mankind but who gives a fuck about EP's canon?
Not quite. Every single NATURAL disease. Basic biomods don't protect you from modern lab-grown weaponized ebola, because it's probably been designed with biomods in mind.

>>51294747
>>51294668

The game also notes in Sunward that on Mars at least there's already an engineered version of the Common Cold which beats biomods, so it's not necessarily as much of a breadth as people would like.

But yeah, sure, it's cataloged all natural forms of disease. God knows how many you'd run into out in space anyway unless you were pulling actively sick refugees off Earth during the Fall.

File: pleasurepod.jpg (221KB, 540x1280px) Image search: [Google]

221KB, 540x1280px

>>51294747
>>51294815

Way I see it, it doesn't even have to be deliberately created shit. In high radiation, high population density habitats infectious diseases can have the time of their lives spreading and mutating. Nothing life-threatening (mostly) but the way I run it, it's not rare for habitats to be ravaged by biomod-resistant superbugs, which are kept in control only by counter nanoinfections and smart viruses.

YMMV, etc. etc.

>>51294938

Yeah, I don't know if I'd run it that far, because while habitat sepsis is not unheard of,
>biomod-resistant superbugs, which are kept in control only by counter nanoinfections and smart viruses
would obliterate any of the habitats which actually have that problem, on account of the generally poor health and low economic status of the people living in those environs.

But, even if you can't get directly sick (and there would still be plenty of people who could) with like, fever and whatever bacteria or virii running rampant in your environmental system is probably not great. Fucks with your air and water quality, spoils food, causes weird cosmetic damage to technology or even disrupts nanoscale tech because there's shit lying around in their way they can't handle, even causing your body to develop something resembling a physical reaction like coughing or sneezing because there's shit flying around your biomods keep kicking out.

>>51295032
>would obliterate any of the habitats which actually have that problem, on account of the generally poor health and low economic status of the people living in those environs.
A poor person today has more tech in their house than a rich person of the 18th century.

In that same vein, those of low economic status will likely still have access to public fabbers and healthcare, far beyond what you and I have today. Even among the Jovians, I'm sure they see the sanity in using the best medicines to make sure that there are no infection vectors for their habitats. Despite the sepsis.

>>51287512
Jovian reclaimation war after they form alliance with LLA. Highly advanced Jovian Army and swift neutralization of potential opponents leads Jovians to conquer Mars, liberating it from hypercorps. Using combined resources of Inner Solar System and Jovian System they begin re-conquista of Earth.

Titanians and anarchists either collapse due to exsurgent plagues, inner conflict and X-risks. Left overs are given to secret Jovian allies to experiment on-Exhumans(think succesfull Molotov-Ribbentrop pact).Eventually other factions either leave or flee Solar System through Pandora Gates. Solar System becomes united under First True Human Solar Empire. Most humans improved, but true mods and synths are reserved for science, military and intelligence elites.

File: ArgonautsontheExovirus.jpg (115KB, 640x687px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 640x687px

>>51296445

>>51296445
>anarchists either collapse due to exsurgent plagues, inner conflict and X-risks.

A loose, barely confederated category of isolated societies collapses because the same thing happens to all of them?

>>51296503
Their fall is inevitable due to lack of self-control over technological progress.
Plus it is spurred additionally by joint Jovian-Exhuman cover operatives

>>51296568
First off, the only historical example of political entities having control over technological advancement rapidly became isolated and backward

Second, anarchoprimitivists use sticks as tools, and there's a wide range of cultures between that and bleeding edge tech groups within the AA.

Third, anarchist habs have almost nothing to do with each other and the idea of them suffering a common fate is laughable.

>>51287596
The Jovians are one of the most advanced factions. Technological restrictions are only for civilians. In the books the Jovians have scientists who created TITANS, AGI research teams and a lot of military projects.

>>51296618
No they're not, they're just resource-rich, and keeping technology out of public hands stifles innovation.

>>51296617
>Third, anarchist habs have almost nothing to do with each other
Besides being suicidal, due to the fact that uplifted transgender Gorilla on hormones pozzed everyone with Exsurgency virus just because he had high rep score due to winning their version of Big Brother.
I call it the Rape-Ape Equation

>>51296639
>they're not, they're just resource-rich, and keeping technology out of public hands stifles innovation

Wheras not controlling technology in public hands spurs self-desintegration innovation

Ah, it's been a good while since we had a jovian wankfight.

>>51296445
I love the Jovian's as much as anyone else here anon, but you're about to receive a shitstorm for suggesting they could win any war (or even aren't doomed in the long term, for that matter).

>>51296639
Keep saying this anarch-kiddo. I will be laughing in my Reagan habitat watching on Pub-Net as your hab citizens suffocate in the tender embrace of Rape Ape's tentacle dicks skullfucking them to oblivion. Hope anarchy was worth it.
Nothing personal kid.

File: anarchists.png (957KB, 1328x2216px) Image search: [Google]

957KB, 1328x2216px

>>51296503
They do if the thing is anarchy.

>>51296618
Which leaves them in the dust of groups like the Argonauts, who made friendly ASI to do research, or Bright with the radical intelligence augmentation, or even the TC, with a mix of the above two and a shitload of science-industry to make large scale experiments practical.

Day 0 of the fall they might have been the most advanced, but their serious structural disadvantages of using flats or near humans for research purposes is a big problem. Adrasteia alone is likely more than the equal of every scientist in the republic, and that's just the Argonauts.

For a modern comparison, it's like having a nations scientists composed of nothing but developmentally disabled people. They might have a lot of literature available, but they're still retards compared to the other scientists.

>>51296875
>suggesting that Basilisk hacks Jovians are cooking up will even allow any resistence
>suggesting that Jovian intelligence doesn't know backdoors to TITAN programming which most non-Jovian synths, pods and morphs use as per books
>suggesting that Jovians don't have RKVs tipped with anti-matter

>>51297005
>Which leaves them in the dust of groups like the Argonauts
AKA target practice for Minerva Fleet? Have fun dodging Stellar Plasma Flux from mini Pandora Gates.

File: 1477599698729.png (151KB, 1380x762px) Image search: [Google]

151KB, 1380x762px

REMINDER

File: tri.jpg (814KB, 1400x628px) Image search: [Google]

814KB, 1400x628px

I can understand why the Jovian's don't switch morphs, what I don't understand is their hesitation to use mods on their original bodies. Granted, the immortality that biomods give you might be considered immoral or something, but for many people, and especially for the military, it's just equipment that you put on to help you live, live an artificial heart.

>>51297007
Don't the Jovian's have AGI's they use for research? I know they are very cautious with AGI's, but an AGI that does nothing but research in an isolated habitat without weapons or a body isn't really capable of harming anyone.

File: robo suit.jpg (447KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

447KB, 1920x1080px

>>51297007
>>51297171
Yup, just checked the wiki, they use AI's in their research labs (and pretty much nowhere else).

>>51296965
Somebody needs to convert this into EP
>on the left a hooked up on Turbo-Ecstazy anarchist with enchanced rectum muscles, longer penis and weakness for furry animals
>on the right a Jovian veteran of the Fall, with 20 years of military experience who saw his family devoured by nano-swarm and survived three military campaigns post Fall
>who wins who dies

File: doubt.jpg (51KB, 938x477px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 938x477px

>>51297215
Nice citation. Seeing JIS can't ever get access I'm very skeptical.

>>51297171
That's what they said about the TITANs at first.

>>51297005
They use enchanced scientists and AI. Their scientists created TITANS

>>51297323
In the Core Book they are mentioned using AGI's. Also that RAND scientists fled Fall to Jovians. I think in X-Risks it is mentioned or implied that they house people responsible for TITANS. Throughout the books it is mentioned several times they have a lot of knowledge about them and tech as well.

>>51297331
Says you? Or the actual books?

>Their scientists created TITANS
No, US scientists created the TITANs. The same US which fielded armies of AI piloted pod soldiers and was using unboxed ASI. That's a really different kind of research environment compared to an organization which never allows their own intelligence services to use muses.

>>51297393
What page number?

File: laser.jpg (331KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

331KB, 1920x1080px

Okay, one thing I don't fall for is that the Jovian's have a cancer epidemic, for goodness sakes, they're stated to have a fantastic healthcare system, so you know they have to have cured cancer by now. Maybe they're just busy repeatedly curing people, and that's the "epidemic" of cancer.

>>51297323
"certain technologies—advanced nanotech and biotech, AI, certain weapon systems—are virtually impossible to find outside of the highest clearance military labs."
Notice they said AI, not AGI. Maybe the Jovian's got something up their sleeve.

File: evac.jpg (62KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 640x360px

>>51297323
Their scientists are also enhanced with mods
>"You may be surprised to hear that many technologies common elsewhere are indeed allowed, but heavily restricted. This includes cornucopia machines, resleeving, and a number of genetic enhancements. These tools typically require high priced licenses or special government dispensation, which generally limit them to the wealthy, specialist labs, and high-ranking government and military officials."

>>51297408
In Rimward you will also find info that RAND corporation is part of Jovian Republic and USA egocasted its top military officials and staff there.It also says they have AGI but treat them as property.

>>51297475
>The vast majority of Jovians (over 80%) retain their original bodies. In fact, our Republic offers a significant reward to anyone who still has their birth body that relocates and becomes a Jovian citizen. Many are genefixed (splicers), though some refuse out of religious objection. Licenses for certain genetic enhancements and bio-mods—or even certain morphs—are allowed if you can demonstrate a particular need for it (vacworkers, for example). Longevity treatments are available for all, if expensive, though our culture reveres death and considers it a dignified and natural end.

File: gatlin.jpg (377KB, 1600x967px) Image search: [Google]

377KB, 1600x967px

>>51297583
What was the point of this post?

>>51297171
They use mods, but they need licence for that.

>>51297601
Poster above were claiming that Jovians don't use modded scientists. This is incorrect.

>>51297005
>Cortical stacks, backups, resleeving, and even certain biomorphs are legal, however, if licensed and restricted (showing that the Security Council, above all, sees practical value in the technology).

File: holes.jpg (547KB, 800x960px) Image search: [Google]

547KB, 800x960px

>>51297624
Oh, well you sent it to me, but I agree with you, so I was confused.

>>51297602
It says the licenses are for government officials and scientists like I said in >>51297475

>>51275341
It wasn't me who said it, but I interpreted what he said as the goodwill we had for them. I believe that shit happened before the Jovian phase of this general.

>>51275341
It costed them a lot of forum users who peoduced content and were banned by hysterical SJW mods

So who's playing EP these days?

>>51301495
Nobody. Half the people on this thread have probably never even played the game.

>>51297007
>Tipping RKVs with antimatter

Do you have any clue how physics works?

Hey, /tg/, how would you make the Minervan Fleet less mustache-twiddling Baby Boomer bitches who think cyber arms are bad and somehow pose a major threat to various habs and scum barges?

>>51303623
The Minervan fleet is completely superfluous to the setting. It is totally removable.

>>51303674
Arguably, so are most habs and some tech levels - I've seen games that ignore sousvelliance for the sake of plot.

desu I'd like to see games where cortical stacks are frowned upon/aren't trusted

>>51303778
>I've seen games
>of Eclipse Phase

No you haven't.

>>51303896
ya rly

>>51303896
Wait, Eclipse Phase is a GAME?

>>51301495
I'll be playing a game tomorrow night, using Transhumanity's Fate. Fingers crossed it doesn't go south.

Any tips? I've ran classic EP a couple times, only played Fate once and it was a different setting.

>>51303369
Probably not if he's suggesting RKVs for interplanetary warfare. That's like putting wheels on a nuclear submarine.

>>51304164
No luck. /epg/ hates FATE despite having never played it, same as the core rules

>>51304164
Actually the anon you asked.

In my experience, Fate is all about building advantages incrementally and manipulating the scene to produce dramatically interesting victories.

Conversely based on my groups, EP is all about bodypimping tacticool space whore minmaxing (for fun and profit) and long drawn out discussions about fringe politics and psychosexual bioethics. That is, when the GM isn't bogging us down with four planning sessions leading up to a paranoia mode heist mission that happens in basically slow motion because it's a sterile white room with explosions going on inside, and nobody gives a fuck anymore.

I haven't done more than skim Transhumanity's Fate, but the important thing to make sure people feel like their builds and decisions are more or less justified over the course of the game. EP is a great game for building high-concept characters and cool bodies but it's also /great/ at making you regret every single decision you made up to and after the first session of play. Don't make people roll for every single action.

Unless Transhumanity's Fate changes things a lot, you only roll to: hurt something, not be hurt by something, overcome a social, physical or mental obstacle or set up advantages for the long-term. Obviously most actions in EP map to these four, so it's not going to be hard.

So don't force your octomorph to roll just to show off how sweet and sleek his tentacles are, unless he's trying to convert some party members to be down for space kraken tentacle finger-bangin'.

>>51304164

Practically I don't think many in our small community have actually played it. My general experience with FATE and some people have talked about it is kind of treat is as the movie version of EP - the direct narrative control, simpler skills and success and less brutal combat tends to make you a little more hollywood than normal.

>>51304281

I suppose I should clarify what I mean by that.

Typical core EP runs slightly fiddly, tends to be oriented on specific details, can almost be kind of Dark Souls-y - Dying sucks so you want to carefully prepare your strategy before you handle anything and the universe will just try and fuck you over. The kind of game where your GM grins because half of you are biomorphs without toxin filters or enhanced respiration and you stumble into a room the villain pumps full of nerve gas or something.

FATE doesn't work like that. Pop a FATE point on the right aspect, everybody has gas masks now. It's very much like a hollywood film. You only have so much run time, so rolls happen for specific challenges, and sometimes players (or the GM with compels) will just make things move along on the meta level like having the tool you need fabbed already, or the villain starts monologuing or whatever.

>>51304277
>So don't force your octomorph to roll just to show off how sweet and sleek his tentacles are, unless he's trying to convert some party members to be down for space kraken tentacle finger-bangin'.
Yeah, I got the feeling from my first game that Fate won't be as technical. I'll probably be playing it fast and loose like I do with Apocalypse World; mostly reacting to what the players do.

That said, I'm still choosing the style of campaign. Which would you recommend? I'm torn between Martian TITAN Hunter cyberpunk and Spacer cyberpunk with derelict dungeoncrawls.

>>51304281
>My general experience with FATE and some people have talked about it is kind of treat is as the movie version of EP
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm basically resurrecting my second EP campaign, which was a Pink Mohawk-style game with most of the horror taking a sideline to 80s-style villainy. So the TITANs will be played as SkyNet expys and the Exsurgent virus is something more thematic.

BTW, Project Status has officially updated

Argonauts will be heading into final layout later this month.

>>51301495
I'd be interesting in running one but I'm always leery of running games for people here. I'm guaranteed to get

>that guy who screeches when I don't depict every Jovian/autonomist/corporate/other as a rational, sympathetic person

>that guy with an online Ph.D in Atomic Rockets who screeches when I don't realistically depict the life support systems of space stations

>that guy who plays EP for his body swap/futa/furry fetish

Am I missing anything?

File: 1472536503364.png (358KB, 650x969px) Image search: [Google]

358KB, 650x969px

>>51304476
You forgot

>Those four guys who never fucking show up to actually play the goddamned game

>>51304476
>>51304508
Wow, it's like my GM and the players of a game I was in for over a year.

>>51304476
If you can't depict something as basic as life support systems properly, this isn't the game for you, friendo. Star Wars might be more up your alley :^)

just kidding haha i was only pretending to be retarded!

>>51295032
Why not? As >>51295121 pointed out people have access to stuff that wouldn't necessarily "decimate" the population. Rather I'd depict it as just another one of those problems that the surviving polities weren't ready to handle in the wake of the Fall. Basically I still want these kinds of stuff to be a problem where if someone sneezes on the street people don't immediately freak out and 50 robo-SWAT people materialize out of nowhere and tackle the guy into the ground.

I just want there to be more problems that no amount of transhuman magic technology can trivially solve that aren't social or cultural problems.

File: animu.jpg (824KB, 2880x1800px) Image search: [Google]

824KB, 2880x1800px

>>51304476
Don't forget
>That guy who shows up in a Che Guevara/Ancap/fascist shirt and makes everything political

>>51297005

While the Argonauts do have ASI, they can only use a fraction of their power. This is because ASIs have to be kept air-gapped: completely disconnected from the mesh. They are fed information manually through physical memory storage devices that go one way only. They may only communicate through green text monitors, to prevent basilisk attacks.

The ASIs themselves know they are particularly vulnerable to the exsurgent virus, they would insist on this system themselves.

I should think most hypercorps have ASIs kept in similar conditions.

File: smoke.jpg (125KB, 601x800px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 601x800px

>>51297063
How am I just finding out about the Minervan's? Freakin' badass, they fix most of my problems with the Jovian's.

>>51303623
>who think cyber arms are bad
To be fair, they more than make up for this by being completely reckless in their use of technology outside of their bodies.

It's weird, they're like a Jovian Republic with reversed tactics. Jovian's are hesitant to use dangerous tech but are willing to change their bodies if they need to, while the Minervan's absolutely refuse to change their bodies but will use any tech they can against the transhumans.

I think the best way of contrasting them is this. Jovian's view the TITAN's as their #1 threat and the transhumans are despised, but not actively targeted. Minervan's are the reverse of this.

>>51287823
>Okay, but what are they gonna do to adapt?
They don't. They're gonna turn into Space Amish. A fucking tourist attraction.

>>51297255
>jovians
>winning anything

Spics, leave!

File: wargame.jpg (329KB, 729x729px) Image search: [Google]

329KB, 729x729px

>>51306446
To be fair we did just go over how they're gonna keep up with the transhumans tech wise. Their main technological disadvantage comes not from what technology they have, but rather from the limited technology they're willing to use.

>>51306776
>we did just go over how they're gonna keep up with the transhumans tech wise

Namely, they're won't. They are already falling behind because they stifle innovation by restricting access to so many basic technologies.

In other words, the strategy of "We can totally keep up with them. We have three guys in a lab who are allowed to develop similar technology." doesn't work.

>>51306378
>To be fair, they more than make up for this by being completely reckless in their use of technology outside of their bodies.

If only the so-called-people they were going to wind up opposing didn't also do exactly the same thing. It doesn't really make up for anything; they are held back by an inhibition that their opponents do not share.

>Yeah, we don't modify our bodies, but we do use these nano-disassembler weapons!
>We do modify our bodies and we have those weapons too. Sorry.

Eclipse Phase has never struck me as a game where abandoning the promise of technology to be the plucky underdog plays out well for the plucky underdog. I love the horror element of people basically becoming something else through the use of technology, and other people recoiling in terror at the exhuman monster who simply wanted to be the best damn thing it could be. The conflict around where to draw the line between transhuman, posthuman and exhuman necessitates the technology that pushes you further down that path to make you better than those without it, so that there can be a trade-off.

File: back.jpg (265KB, 1920x1200px) Image search: [Google]

265KB, 1920x1200px

>>51307047
>They are already falling behind because they stifle innovation by restricting access to so many basic technologies.
Sort of. While it's true that by not having all the technology be out in the open they have less people who might improve on them, they still have most of the same tech that goes into research as the transhumans do, such as specialized morphs and AI. They also have the advantage of being outright immune to certain forms of attack thanks to their cautiousness, something which they can exploit and take advantage of in their research. I'm not saying they're going to be cutting edge, but they'll certainly hold their own just fine.

>>51307058
I think the advantage of better morph bodies are a little overrated. Most biological combat morphs don't help all that much over a flat, especially with equipment taken into account. How much will a fury really help when the enemy flat has reflex boosters, neurochem, and a HOPLITE suit? Sure, you might have the same thing, but at that point the actual morph itself is contributing barely anything to the combat.

And let's not forget, any medium-large scale war is going to be mostly won by whoever has the better support equipment, planes, artillery, ships, and not by infantry equipment. Infantry equipment has always been a very small contribution to the overall war effort.

>>51307058
Pretty much.

In the race for better technology, the one with the lesser technology always loses. Always.

File: big.jpg (56KB, 620x394px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 620x394px

>>51307058
Also, apparently whatever the Minervan's are doing is working, since SIS basically consists of about 20 men in 10 two-man groups going around destroying settlements. Sure, they're out of the way settlements, and thus likely don't have the greatest defenses, but these guys are flats and they don't even have numbers on their side.

>>51308693
>They also have the advantage of being outright immune to certain forms of attack thanks to their cautiousness

What if we replace our radios with signal flags? Our navy will be invincible!

File: smoking.jpg (123KB, 1280x777px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 1280x777px

>>51308756
But we actually do follow that line of logic. Our nuclear facilities are horribly outdated in terms of electronic equipment, but they are kept that way on purpose, as they cannot be hacked since they are so low tech.

>>51308836
Notice how we don't do that to the whole military though. Also, it's essentially only the 'trigger' that is low tech, which would not benefit from technological advances regardless of enemy action or inaction. The missiles, comms systems, sensor systems, and C&C are all quite advanced, with low-tech backup systems where appropriate. In other words, done the smart way rather than the Jovian way.

Note that Titan also uses low-tech backup systems.

File: mech.jpg (798KB, 1500x702px) Image search: [Google]

798KB, 1500x702px

>>51308939
Right, but the Jovian, and especially Minervan militaries aren't THAT low tech. Jovian's don't use AGI's in combat and they don't use a mesh, sure. But they still have backups, specialized morphs for important roles, and the largest fleet in the solar system. The Minervans may use flats exclusively, but they still use TITAN tech, asyncs, nanoswarms, any and all tech outside of their bodies, and some kind of portable warp gate thingy that I'm sure is important somehow.

It's less like using flags and more like using a 4th gen fighter instead of a 5th gen fighter, but having a greater amount of them and being immune to electronic warfare.

>>51309067
>don't use a mesh
The EP equivalent of using signal flags

>>51309116
Wait, sorry, I was mistaken, they do have a mesh. Sorry, that was my bad.

File: IMG_7249.jpg (102KB, 1174x641px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 1174x641px

Can someone please link me to premade characters that aren't as incompetently made as the ones in the book? Are there any fan made examples?

>>51309216
The premades from Firewall are pretty solid. The ones from Transhuman are ok. None are super optimized characters but that's kind of a waste IMO.

>>51308939
A lot of that stuff is still really old. Newer isn't necessarily better, which is why MM3 missiles still use their original guidance boards. (one of the first things ever to use an integrated circuit)

>>51309457
The minuteman 3's inertial guidance system has undergone considerable improvement.

>>51308756
>What if we replace our radios with signal flags? Our navy will be invincible!

Or replace our code with Navaho language, right?

>>51308747
>Also, apparently whatever the Minervan's are doing is working, since SIS basically consists of about 20 men in 10 two-man groups going around destroying settlements.

Experience trumps equipment.
Jovians and Minervans are extremely experienced veterans with decades of exposure to war and fighting things like TITAN-spawn. An anarchist dildo designer simply won't have the same knowledge and instincts as a dedicated team of Jovian/Minervan operators.

>>51308719
>In the race for better technology, the one with the lesser technology always loses. Always.

As shown in Vietnam, Somalia, Afghanistan etc.

>>51307058
>they are held back by an inhibition that their opponents do not share.

The lack of inhibition eventually leads to your cool new space fighter deciding it wants to fly off to Tau Ceti instead of fighting and re-purpose your cortical stack as operating processor calculating fuel output supplement by digesting your bones and flesh(not necessarily in that order).

Pursuit of technologies in Eclipse Phase beyond certain level eventually leads to self-destruction

>>51310312
Tons of anarchists have experience with such things

>>51310360
>everyone but the Jovians is fucking stupid

Also, fighters make no sense in space

>>51310433

Only the military ones that went into the AA after the fall, the rest are untrained slackers that would require much more effort putting them into effective action than the common Jovian citizen.

The jovian military constitutes a profesional 24/7 well equiped, well fed, very experienced soldier.

>>51310495
>Titan and exsurgent stuff didn't impact the outer system

False. Also, infugees and other migrants are very common

>>51310459
>Also, fighters make no sense in space

This.

I'm tired of people putting these in every sci-fi enviroment.

Next thing we have to rid of is mechs and the whole RPG sci-fi enviroment would suddenly improve its beliavility by at least 30%

>>51310511
>Titan and exsurgent stuff didn't impact the outer system

They did, but much less, thats the reason they are a political agent now. They didn't got hit as hard as the inner solar system did.

Just see where the quarantine zones and stations are mainly concentrated and Iapetus can't compare to Earth in any sense.

>>51297171
Basic Biomods don't grant immortality. They just prevent a body from suffering the ravages of old age. It's mentioned in Rimward that a Titanian Commonwealth company is working on longevity treatments to push the human lifespan over 150-200 (I don't have the book on me so I can't check.) But for right now the only surefire way to get immortality is either going Robot, Infomorph or resleeving into a fresh body.

>>51310495
As someone who has met people who had mandatory military service, they're mostly still useless.

>>51310495
I'll grant professional and well equipped, but I doubt the average soldier has much actual combat experience. The button-pushers greatly outnumber the hand-disablers.

>>51310586

In Sunward maybe, I think the game says that theoretically Exalts+ should not die of old age or degrade that way, but that is only just the latest models so obviously nobody has had one long enough to check.

>>51310557
Good point. The inner system and jovian veterans are mostly dead.

>>51310591

Because the society is not focused around that, conscription in EP ends in 2 years and its very related to your education in other fields.

>>51310597

Thats because the nature of modern war asks for more people in logistics than in actual combat, but even the experience adquire in the stress and scarcity of combat can mean a lot for button pushers.

>>51310612

10 years is not enough and the Jovian republic got by far the majority of public high ranking officials that scaped the fall, simply because Jupiter was the last safe haven they could get.

The rest got leftovers.

>>51310628
Where are you going with this?

>>51310586
>It's mentioned in Rimward that a Titanian Commonwealth company is working on longevity treatments to push the human lifespan over 150-200

If I remember this well the problem of mortality that appeared there wasn't physical but psicological since people after 100 years living start developing more and more mental handicaps and derangements to the point that at 150 years the mind just can't take it anymore and you can't keep calling that person a functional human being.

>>51310670
Yeah. What about in another 30 years though, when they're dead?

>>51309116
What's the point of mesh in space combat with light-lag that can sometimes be measured in minutes?

Mesh is good on short distances for small group operations if there is no interference and no risk of getting hit by artillery/guided fire that aims at any type of radiation that their allies don't use.

Jovians are just skewing their power to space fleet where fancy morphs and insane reflexes pale before RKVs, antiproton beams, barrages of shrapnel packed missiles and so on.

File: ultimate.jpg (260KB, 1057x1500px) Image search: [Google]

260KB, 1057x1500px

Do Remade's have dicks?

>>51310704
>>51310611
Nope. I just cracked open the book. Page 103 of Rimward.
"Transhuman bodies still age and die, and more importantly, most transhuman egos develop mental health problems in extreme old age. Titanian immortality research currently focuses on geriopsychiatry—finding and treating the causes of the so-called “immortality blues.” At the same time, basic research in longevity treatments continues, the current goal being to keep a morph alive to 200 years of age."

>>51310691

The problem with conscription is that people are not interested in that and most of the times the goverment just keeps it as a rite of passage and a way to inflate statistics about defense capabilities so they don't actually cover the fact that you took a person out of his life for a year or a few months.

In Finland at the very least they have civil service but still, the problem persist; no employer is going to wait for you nor life.

But, if the goverment actually mixes both the civilian part with the military one things change. People become more interested if after joining you get benefits, education or are allowed to stay for longer if you feel like it, but this would cost much more than just putting conscript into marches and clases all day.

The Jovian military actually fullfills many points of a stratocracy so, for example; you become an engineer after joining the navy, so you get both the education and the experience in your job, and you will be mostly safe because you will probably be a POG.

This would also imply that if you had a job before joining or people in your family depended on you the state would have to also take care of that(because thats another strong point against conscription), but this is to be expected to be covered with the huge safety net the Jovian goverment actually gives(at least in healthcare and job oportunities)

>>51310712

They will probably become ARCHINTs by then.

>>51310530
First you'll need to kill quantum-entanglement communication and all the instances where TITANs literally use magic.

Then you'll need to recheck your nanomachines survivability against most hazards and their energy balance. After we may start talking about "believability" and other stuff.

>>51310712
They will be buried with honors on reconquered Earth.

>>51310612
According to the books, a large part of Jovian military are veterans from the Fall on Earth.

>>51310459
>everyone but the Jovians is fucking stupid
the funny thing is, thats kind of true if you read the setting from objective position. At least the Jovians are one of the most reasonable factions.

File: memesafety.gif (12KB, 646x507px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 646x507px

>>51312714

>>51310812
Conscription is part of how the Titanian Commonwealth is able to maintain a massive public sector without the need to tax and spend. Physical assets are provided by the state's enormous nanotech base, with cornucopia machines, healing vats and dumb AI providing the baseline by which larger scale more complex goods can be produced. Universal military and civil service makes up the other half, providing the state with a big pool of free labor. Things like specific skills or rare reagents which can't be manufactured or simply drafted can be acquired through use of the state's existing assets, such as the mentioned fighting against the Jovians over resources during the Fall, as mentioned in Rimward.

This also explains why the Commonwealth is so committed to importing large numbers of infugees. With much of the population completing their national service and the birth rate basically nonexistent (same as the rest of the Solar System) the state needs to replenish its stock of free labor by other means.

The problem is obviously that the people they're bringing in don't always buckle down and serve their term like good little Social Democrats. As mentioned in the books, lots of them turn to crime or end up unemployed on the dole, without even the bare minimum of skills necessary to exist in the reputation economy.

File: 2853214-deus.jpg (38KB, 904x344px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 904x344px

>>51310530
>people actually believe this

>>51310712
>>51310825
They'll probably just be reused from a cortical stack or backup, since the military is allowed and commonly uses that technology. That being said, the new soldier created from the cortical stack/backup would probably be considered as a completely different person.

>>51310732
>RKVs, antiproton beams, barrages of shrapnel packed missiles and so on.

None of that makes any sense in this context and none of it is canon

File: theexpanse_bobbie_draper_01b.jpg (73KB, 960x480px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 960x480px

Could a Jovian expat and JMC vet who has resleeved, but views themselves as being not the same as the original, but a separate individual, be an interesting character?
pic vaguely related.

>>51314215
It's a decent starting point.

>>51314215

Probably. Either an "I already died for my country" OR the reverse "Well, I'm a new me now I can do all kinds of stuff again" would work.

Secret: any concept can actually be interesting - you just have to not be trash about portraying and detailing it. You could take say the loli-futa-furry character and actually explain their horrible body dysmorphia and dissociation or wax about how they grew up in some weird commune with completely different social norms and leave only to find they do not match what many people see as nominal - or all kinds of things. Just, some hills are steeper than others.

>>51314215

Also that would be JSF Marines unless you mean a different abbreviation of JMC.

>>51314215
It could definitely be interesting. Having the memories of the previous person, yet recognizing yourself as someone completely different. Do you honor the sacrifice of all the previous people you're cortical stack has been in? Or maybe you push it out of your mind, trying to set up a different life than you previously had. As long as you don't get too angsty about it you should be fine.

File: galactic.jpg (2MB, 6600x5100px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 6600x5100px

>>51310899
>quantum entanglement communication
>TITANs literally use magic
>nanomachines survivability

mind explaining these concepts a bit more? you seem to know something about it, and I'm desperately curious to gather what I can of these phenomena!?

>>51314215
I've actually had PC concepts like this. They see themselves more as a "ghost" or sorts - there's some angst about not being another person and just being a simple copy, but it's not overwhelming - why ponder on it when you've got bigger things to fight, more Marines to train, and important data to give? Perhaps they might choose to be deliberately inhuman - in for a penny, in for a pound, and there's going to be tension between them, the ultra-traditional/ultra-religion military branches, ones who are concerned they may have lost or corrupted something from a brain backup, and the ones who simply don't give a shit and that the only concern is the sleeve uses nanites or nanite-fabbed shit.

>>51314293

>>51310776
It depends on whoever's using them. The more exhuman-leaning ultimates focused on ascending human flaws while still being human might not have them, while more "traditional" ultimates will have them as well, because (insert dumb philosophy about sex)

File: Jackson_AW.jpg (172KB, 763x506px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 763x506px

Does anyone view the Jovian military forces as typical/generic mil-SF forces in the vein of Heinlein's Starship Troopers or stereotypical Baen books - as in, 20th/early-21st century warfare, tactics, and weapons, but amped up? Shit like "they're obviously using M4s and wearing fucking Interceptors/MTV vests with the same fucking modern day digicamo on, but prettied up and with some sci-fi mumbo-jumbo thing", tanks that are basically Abrams with two barrels, F-22s in space, et cetera.

Likewise, does anyone else view Jovian civilian cities as a mix-n-match snapshot of urban Earth life from 1983-2020, just... y'know, also amped up? People still sleeping in matresses and using gas cas, like how every generic sci-fi flick just takes modern tech and gives it angular fighter-jet shit.

>>51314724
I think of them as the Mexican Mafia in space.

>>51314724
While I agree with you, I think they really need to put in some basic artwork of the forces of each faction. Most of the scenes of what might be soldiers present a very unprofessional look to them.

>>51314724

I mean, I don't know if they have the space for F-22s and MBTs, nor necessarily that if you called up your hypothetical prop department they would be using all american shit (I imagine, for instance, Space FALs), but yeah, sure. That's a good kind of design aesthetic to use. Practically, even if overall the Jovians are around the same tech level, a lot of the stuff they use will be based on older, more thoroughly tested and secured technology than the latest thing. Also depending on the duty you see your average jovian grunts are, y'know, between the ages of 16 and 20 interspersed with more seasoned soldiers.

Civilian culture though, I don't know if that's accurate. Cities will have vastly different layouts depending on if you're in a lunar domed hab or a proper cylinder one. The ones based on actual lunar bodies will probably not be like the great open caverns and gardens of Luna but more regular, reinforced, methodical building interspersed with smaller greenspace. Unless there's a lot of hydrocarbons in the jovian moons I don't know about, people will not be using gas cans. If they even have enough space to own a car or truck, it'll be electric. I'm not sure what sci-fi does away with mattresses, is that a thing? People need something to sleep on. Memory foam or whatever is probably pretty easy to produce as opposed to some kind of spring-box contraption now.

File: JovianFlat.png (809KB, 626x1454px) Image search: [Google]

809KB, 626x1454px

>>51314902

>>51314915
>Unless there's a lot of hydrocarbons in the jovian moons I don't know about

A decent amount actually in some cases, but not so useful without an oxygen atmosphere

File: starship troopers.jpg (144KB, 500x767px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 500x767px

>>51314915
Iirc, the books went from "HAHA STUPID EARLY 21ST CENTURY NEOCON FUCKBOYS" to "they're deadly because their tech is hightech as it can get without using nanofabs, makers, things that require heavy AI use, etc, and built to last". I'm thinking very 80s sci-fi aesthetics - big, blocky, and looks like it could take a nuke. Shit like old Battletech crap or how tech was described in Heinlein's Starship Troopers.

>>51314934
I honestly hate the skintight suit aesthetic in any media, anywhere. At least put a couple pouches on that vest or something.

File: 6Jw2NAW.jpg (25KB, 600x349px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 600x349px

>>51314915
I meant to say gas cars. :V But, yeah, I'm seeing tesla-style shit everywhere, but a sizeable number of merikan conservatives (shit, conservatives in general, really) who deliberately use shit like gasoline or frozen fuels, 'cause "electric cars are for pussies".

>>51315062
It made sense for Crysis because, well, they were mimicking human musculature, and Half-Life 1/Opposing Force, because they were playing off the old "government ninja" cliches.

>>51315028

I believe the early works were fairly apparent in their military prowess (I don't remember when NPC 1 was published but the Jovian Soldier is pretty competent- counted with combat exo and much cyberware) but the tone does definitely turn to "no guys, they actually are effective - take this seriously" in later works. Which also makes sense from their in character perspective, you can joke about the jovians on the Eye all you like until you actually need to interact with them.

Depending on how many checks or layers a thing need to go through for fabrication and integration or materials, bulk might be lost as more advanced and lighter composites are used. I'd say a more early Halo aesthetic.

>>51315112

Well, some rebels on Titan do that, but that shit literally rains on their planetary body. I don't know if it will be so easily accessed that burning it to get around when you could take a bus or tram or own electric. They're as much south america as north in JR - and those countries actually believe in public transit.

Also air quality. You live in a space can which was designed for probably half the population, so the air handler is already overtaxed. As fun as the idea of some jovians being such cartoonish rednecks they're willing to contribute to local black lung numbers in their jacked up trucks with the little rubber testicles - given how their government is supposed to be regulatory and controlling, I suspect that manufacture and private sale of such vehicles is not normally allowed - it wastes the resources of the Republic, compañero.

>>51302002
Most of the people in the thread have convinced themselves that they are best off not playing it because of all of the bullshit of multiple types. It's just that we like a lot of the individual things, but have no clear alternative system, setting, or place to talk about it.

>>51315216
It's not a question of the current power of the Jovians. It's a question of their future power. There is little capability for improvement wirhout massive cultural change.

>>51315419

You sure you're replying to the right post, friendo?

Because that really doesn't interact with any of the things I was saying.

>>51315434
Only because the conversation had gone off-topic. No one ever claimed the Jovians were ineffective.

>>51315216
Great, now I'm imagining Jovian tensions and the SIS/Minervan Fleet coming about partially due to cultural tensions between the North American conservatives and the South American conservatives, with the conservatives from everywhere else who didn't go to the LLA or Mars also causing a ruckus (Japanese/Chinese/Korean right-wing slapfighting each other and the NA/SA).

iirc one of the hearsays about jovians is how their air handlers are failing, but given that this was written in the age of "jovians r dum", I'm willing to bet it's a leftist rumor.

I'm wondering what the North American rednecks and far-right would go to - LLA would probably be too moonbat (literally) for them, but I've got a feeling they wouldn't put their lot out with Extropians and going Brinker would be too far for them - I feel like they'd definitely be advocates for Earth reclamation. Maybe their own "scum" barge?

>>51315419
Thing is, it's gonna be hard to culturally change them - a very military culture trends conservative, and I think it's to the point anyone going left of them would rather find ways off the habs and head to Mars or elsewhere.

>>51315395
Well this and Transhuman Space are the only games that really take a look at transhumanism seriously, but with Eclipse Phase I can find out all the information about the setting online for free, so it's going to be the far more talked about game. Combine that with the creator's controversial views and biases and you have a game that generates a lot of conversation but little actual gameplay.

File: brigador v1.jpg (305KB, 1200x1200px) Image search: [Google]

305KB, 1200x1200px

>>51315216
Hmm, in terms of tech, I'm willing to say Halo-ish or COD circa Advanced Warfare in general. I'm trying to think of another series that had modern-day-military aesthetics in a space opera setting, too.

Also - along with >>51314837, I kinda wanna see a Brigador-style Jovian/Minervan habitat that's really a third-world South American hellhole - brutal military regimes, brutal cops, brutal crime, brutal far-left insurrections, brutal corporations, sprawling favelas and shantytowns, huge gray/black markets, sharply divided rich and poor communities, et cetera.

Hell, they've got their own version of Ultimates that are basically the worst of Ultimates/Exhumans mixed with all the hedonism of Venusians and elite hypercorps.

File: sicario.jpg (4MB, 1800x2700px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 1800x2700px

>>51314837
>sicario scenario set in legba or the worst parts of mars dealing with the LLA portions of Firewall having scores to settle with Mexican cartels who've recently acquired serious TITAN tech and cognitohazards when

DEATH IS JUST ANOTHER BORDER TO CROSS

>>51315419
It depends on what you mean by improvement. Sure, they can't keep up with the nanotech and morph tech of the opposition, but they can keep up with weapon and armor tech, as well as spaceship technology. Combine that with their numbers and their resistance to certain types of warfare and they should be pretty well set for the future, although they certainly won't be conquering the solar system any time soon.

>>51245608
They are something i'd really like to see expanded.

>>51316335

>iirc one of the hearsays about jovians is how their air handlers are failing, but given that this was written in the age of "jovians r dum", I'm willing to bet it's a leftist rumor.

Nah, it's reiterated in Rimward, which is fairly recent in efforts to be more even-handed with the jovians. But, there it's much more explict that it's not necessarily that the Jovians are stupid, more the former US Military-Industrial complex was cheap, and went for lowest bidder on the Reagan Cylinder designs. Combine with the fact that people are using them to like, live civilian lives in not as military/government research bases, it means they do not function as they are intended.

I wish x-risks had something about the dangers of >>51244615
's pic. Instead of the usual TITANs, Jovians, inner system, factors, ultimates. Just one piece on how the ideology of the outer system could be an x-risk.

>>51316698
I do find it odd how Firewall considers capitalism and the Jovian Republic x-risks, but not anarchism. Especially when you consider that the anarchists don't have a system in place for taking out x-threats.

>>51316905

That's largely because both the authors and firewall are insanely biased towards the anarchocommies. Firewall largely is the autonomist solution for x-threats.

>>51316698

Green Death is Anarcho-primitivist in ideology, even if that word is never used in the text.

>>51316905
bcuz lolbertarians and anarchists

In all seriousness, though, I'm of the opinion that branch of Firewall runs ultra-leftist - like, I dunno, a pre-Fall antfa brigade/black bloc, possibly even pulled from ice. Why let egos go to waste when you can tell them the TITANs are corp fascists?

Likewise, I'm surprised Firewall doesn't pull from neo-Nazi/fascism groups. There's the mention of a Firewall op having to pull money from a child porn ring, but the worst it gets are Jovians running the political spectrum, various Ultimates, and maybe some hypercorp leagues.

>>51316905
And the fact they're drifting hard from anything recognisably human. Or the bullshit they routinely cook up in their labs. Or things that should scream x-risk, like the Titanian Intelligence Service, or the Titanian fucking around in Iapetus. Brinker whackjobs are one thing, but these are heavily armed and well resourced clades who are hellbent on converting the system to their own ideology. They don't promote out and out consumerism like hypercorps, but they do want to seize everything they can for themselves - half of why they call hypercorps an x-risk.

File: 1446679222286.png (1MB, 1193x755px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1193x755px

What changes to Firewall would be suggested to make it more of the inter-faction, evenhanded cooperative effort it presents itself as, rather than the AA-dominant agency it actually is? I'd prefer to keep the ad-hoc, peer-to-peer structure, as well as the unofficiality of the organization, as it a)makes sense in for what Firewall does, and b) evokes the same kind of feel that Delta Green does.

>>51317841

None, just portray Firewall that way.

>>51316335
>Thing is, it's gonna be hard to culturally change them
Yes, and if they did change in that regard it would dramatically upset the way system powers align, which was the original point of the discussion.

One way or the other, fairly soon the Jovian piece of the current multi-party detente is going to fall either away or to one side.

File: beachhead.jpg (287KB, 1600x788px) Image search: [Google]

287KB, 1600x788px

>>51317841
Just lessen the focus on Firewall a bit. Show us the inner workings of OZMA so we can play as them, and give us more information on Jovian special forces and Minervan SIS so that human only games become more viable. Perhaps have there be some kind of spy war between the Titanian agencies, the Jovians and Minervans, OZMA, and Firewall.

>>51317977
That'll happen the same day they put out a geurilla warfare version of x-com where you play as EXALT in the brave new post x-com 2 world.

>>51316456
>they can keep up with weapon and armor tech, as well as spaceship technology.
Probably not. They lack the nanotech expertise and intellectual diversity which drive development and are short on the AGI technology which helps with development and effectively using those technologies

Also, armor is nearly useless for spacecraft

>>51318049
>armor is nearly useless for spacecraft
I disagree, it's useless against a railgun or missile, but incredibly useful for protecting against the small debris that will be flying around everywhere causing Kessler syndrome when one of your ships gets hit.

As for the rest of the post, there isn't really much evidence that their AGI's or ASI's are lacking in tech, just that they don't use them outside of research and occasionally really dumbed down ones for complex machinery.

While it is true that they lack the connections and diversity that other scientists in the solar system have, there is nothing really preventing them from copying other's designs and tech. Sure, they're not immediately connected to their mesh, but it wouldn't take much for a well connected field agent to get a blueprint and send it to the Jovian's. They may not have the newest tech right off the bat, but they'll never be too far behind so as to be irrelevant.

>>51318128
>there isn't really much evidence that their AGI's or ASI's are lacking in tech
They have no ASIs, gimp the shit out of their AGIs due to paranoia, and have no open development to produce innovation. It's like North Korea's approach to computer warfare. Sure, they can produce some good hackers, but they'll never be able to compete with Russia. The Jovians do have the advantage that they haven't been falling behind for very long yet though.

>>51318128
What happens when one of those stolen blueprints eats your black lab and everyone in it because your people don't have the same knowledge base as those who created it?

>>51318164
>ure, they can produce some good hackers, but they'll never be able to compete with Russia
True, but they have the advantage of being extremely resistant to hacking thanks to their hardwiring. They sacrifice offensive hacking ability for a great defense against hacking.

>They have no ASIs, gimp the shit out of their AGIs due to paranoia, and have no open development to produce innovation.
It's true that they keep their research very close to the chest, but this also means we don't know how advanced they are. They might have as much technology as the rest of transhumanity, but are just less willing to use it. We know that they use AI's in their labs but we don't know to what extent they use them or how powerful they are. They might be dumb AGI's or they might be powerful ASI's kept under leash like the Argonauts do, who knows.

>>51318197
That's why you extensively examine it first away from populated centers. It's what the Jovian's already do with captured transhuman tech.

>>51314017
Relativistic Kill Vehicle is literally every courier ship with antimatter drive. It's not enough to destroy a planet but more than enough to deliver a couple of gigatons of energy at 0.3c. Specialised models probably can go up to around 0.5c

Proton and antiproton beams are very much a canon part of EP. You have personal sized versions man!!! And spaceship sized are much easier to create even if they take more resources. Particle beam bolter is in the core rulebook.

Shrapnel packed missiles exist even today and if you tell me that you can't scale up a seeker from EP core rulebook to spaceship size I'm gonna call you a dirty liar.

>>51314505
Quantum entanglement communication was checked and rechecked. It can be made to work but only at the speed of light.

Nanomachines have a lot of problems with survivability in many environments. Even at room temperature in ideal conditions some will probably die due to malfunctions. In any more hostile environment they start to drop like flies - temperature fluctuations within the room, radiation, air currents, mechanical damage and so on.

After that we come to the "programming" problem. It just doesn't work on such a scale even with EP tech. If you use quantum computing you probably could do some programs but you'll need to somehow shield the core so that it won't die - quantum computers are really fragile. And shielding them at nanoscale is more or less impossible. Things that humans don't even notice will kill them. Static charge from hair will just fry a ton of nanomachines with Q-comps.

Also thermodynamics are not on their side. They are not energy effective and have too much losses due to volume-surface ratio.

Without a hive constantly recycling dead nanomachines and directing those that already exist you can do only really simple tasks with them and not for long. You can make them more robust and and effective but then you'll lose all their advantages and just get analogue to bacteria.

TITAN femtobots is one of the examples of space magic that flat out doesn't work. We have analogue to them and pretty effective but you also can see its flaws in action - viruses.

>>51318164
Doesn't Jovian corporations compete for government contracts the same way as current American do?

Design by committee rarely produces good results. You always want someone at the head capable of putting the foot down others throats and make them comply with general directions or people start to wander.

Frankly Corpies are much more dangerous than anarchists in tech regard. They don't have any real restrictions, have resources and have a hierarchy capable of whipping up their scientists to create deathstars with cocktail stands.

File: 1314794591262.jpg (84KB, 583x900px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 583x900px

>>51314724
>Does anyone view the Jovian military forces as typical/generic mil-SF forces in the vein of Heinlein's Starship Troopers or stereotypical Baen books

Something like this.

File: 1318397658298.jpg (310KB, 794x800px) Image search: [Google]

310KB, 794x800px

>>51314724
p2

File: 1266907646764.jpg (251KB, 800x1014px) Image search: [Google]

251KB, 800x1014px

>>51314724
Minervan operative

File: 1330156743604.jpg (225KB, 1024x1325px) Image search: [Google]

225KB, 1024x1325px

>>51314724
p3 Jovian black ops soldier

File: 418_realsize.jpg (6MB, 2500x4167px) Image search: [Google]

6MB, 2500x4167px

>>51314724
p4 Jovian black ops soldier

>>51314724
>Does anyone view the Jovian military forces as typical/generic mil-SF forces in the vein of Heinlein's Starship Troopers or stereotypical Baen books
>>51310459

>Also, fighters make no sense in space

This is how I play Eclipse Phase now as Jovians, you rage you lose

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMP4R3Jzmm8

File: AA day as usual.jpg (412KB, 1164x900px) Image search: [Google]

412KB, 1164x900px

>meanwhile on Anarchist habitat things are going well

>>51318276
My point was that it hurts your research program

File: 1425668337694.png (63KB, 834x977px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 834x977px

>>51319671

>>51318982
Where does it say couriers go that fast? Where does it say antiproton beams exist?

Shrapnel packed missiles are fucking shit which is why anti-aircraft missiles today use continuous rod warheads.

>>51319120
>Quantum entanglement communication was checked and rechecked. It can be made to work but only at the speed of light.
No
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem

Also, there's no reason that nanites can't be as tough as bacteria.

>>51321018
>Where does it say couriers go that fast? Where does it say antiproton beams exist?

Main book and Rimward.

>>51321053
>Also, there's no reason that nanites can't be as tough as bacteria.

They definitely can be as tough as bacteria. Problem is they will have to pay for this. Either in energy consumption and speed or in work speed. Bacteria and viruses are one of the most optimized things in existence.

Still won't close the problem of programming.

If nanomachines in EP were used only inside their hives where they were cooking new items and constantly being recycled by the hive it would have been at least somewhat realistic. You'll just need a lot of radiators and energy for each hive.

>>51321018
>Shrapnel packed missiles are fucking shit which is why anti-aircraft missiles today use continuous rod warheads.

Not if relative speed between shrapnel and target is 100+ km/s. A 10 gram shrapnel ball bears around 30 kg of energy in TNT equivalent. Whole missile load will contain hundreds of such balls.

>>51321710
Nanites can skip all kinds of shit that bacteria need, like long-term homeostasis or reproduction.

>>51321543
Mars to Jupiter in a month is not relativistic and there is no mention of antiprotons

>>51321053
The no-information theorem, as I understand it, means that there must be a separate, non-FTL, information channel, through which information about entagled particle state is sent.
Quantum entaglement is not a way of communication. It's a way to get your particles in a required state only via data.

>>51322405
Are you taking about using conventional communications to remotely entangle particles? If so, why?

>>51322214
>like long-term homeostasis or reproduction.
Both of those are survival mechanisms.

You can skip their analogues with nanites only if you have hive on your hands to replenish their numbers.

>>51322674
Or if you can accept some attrition.

>>51322692
Well unless you use magical nanites from EP you'll need to dump really a lot of them on your target and hope that it can't raise it's own temperature and fry them all.

>>51322743
First off, that would take quite a lot of energy and might be quite bad for the target. Second, my whole point was that skipping features like reproduction and long-term homeostasis could open design options which might make nanites quite a bit more resistant to such countermeasures than bacteria are. Third, forcing your opponent to plan for such contingencies forces them to make compromises which could still work out in your favor even if the nanites don't work out in that engagement. Fourth, there are many, many military applications for nanites beyond applying them to the target and hoping they eat it.

>>51322743
Fifth, flaring a target's thermal signature sounds quite handy.

>>51322367
with an Isp of 200,000 the exhaust velocity of EP's antimater engines is 1962000m/s

I'm not bringing a lot of this back up with the new Edition.

>>51322970
>Second, my whole point was that skipping features like reproduction and long-term homeostasis could open design options which might make nanites quite a bit more resistant to such countermeasures than bacteria are
You basically make something like fire and forget nanite batches that can't work in environments(no homoeostasis analogue) that they are not tailored too . You'll need to drop them really close to target or use "nanite-mines" - containers full of nanites that spring out if someone comes too close. You can more or less forget about nanites capable of going through the station and wrecking everything on their path.

It means also that you'll have trouble with applying nanites for say mining operations. It becomes almost impossible. No building large scale projects (habs, spaceships, etc.) and so on.

Though crafting anything that you can stuff into container with the hive still should be possible. Medichines too will be more or less unchanged even if easier to purge from the body.

Nanites that work close or inside their hives change little in function. Nanites that in EP easily work in the field either become unusable or much less powerful and more vulnerable.

>>51322367
Erm. At least 4 factions farm antimatter (anti-hydrogen) on industrial scales. Hint: anti-hydrogen is made out of anti protons.

>>51323744

I think the point of contention is weaponized beams of antiprotons.

>>51319671
>crossed

OW, THE EDGE

So I'm thinking about running an EP game set on Mars, about criminals, law enforcement, politicians and regular people just trying to survive and do good in a city rife with crime and corruption, but with their motivations clashing (or sometimes even cooperating) to disastrous ends. All while they occasionally have to team up to stop Exsurgents, Exhumans and fucking Ultimates (reeeeee) from blowing the whole thing up.

Like the Wire meets Delta Green or Global Frequency, on Mars.

>>51323784
In weaponizing they are no different from normal protons due to the fact that everything is done through magnetic fields. Besides needing a container to store anti-hydrogen which EP has on almost any scale you can imagine.

They are not even that powerful - around 2 times normal proton beam in delivered energy.

>>51318049
Armor is very critical for missiles and important for warships.

t. COADE autist

>>51318982
No they aren't, EP ships have a max speed between .005% and .05% c. The antimatter courier doesn't carry enough remass to change it's speed by more than 1,600 km/s (.0053% c). That's a loong way from relativistic.

Particle beams are just shitty lasers in space. Antiparticle beams are a meme weapon that no one uses. Regular particles are just better.

fragmenting missile warheads totally exist though, I'm sure of that.

>>51319120
Viruses are nanomachine sized. You could potentially fit like 9.1x10^17 TITAN femtomachines inside a small virus, but I made a lot of assumptions in that calculation, so the number could change sever OOM. That's blatantly space magic though, as each femtomachine is just over 20x the radius of a proton.

>>51322674
All transhuman nanoswarms use hives though, so that's ok.

>>51324335
They're actually worse after you get the regular beam up above .86 c. The mass of the particles hits harder than the AM/M reaction after that point. Antimatter might dump it's energy a little faster though, which matters if you're attacking large pieces of foil.