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Horus was weak, Horus was a fool. That is...
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Horus was weak, Horus was a fool. That is why I am using his weapon as a symbol of authority.
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tsuntsun
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>>45376512
He is using it because it means he inherited the title of warmaster from him.

Also because the weapon is so damn potent. It tasted the blood of the gods, angels, and daemons and because of that It has an extremely powerful sentient weapon spirit that caused Iskandor Khayon, who is a powerful TS sorcerer, to fall in his knees from its power.
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>>45376512
>I am using his weapon as a symbol of authority.
You are also using it wrong failbaddon. It is not s8 ap3 shred, it is s7 ap2 shred Disabling Strike.
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>horus was weak
>horus was a fool
>im going to spend 10000 years failing to achieve as much as he did in 1
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>>45377188

... that would mean in Abaddon's hand it's even more dangerous...
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>>45377242
>wanting +1 str over ap2
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>>45377227
>>im going to spend 10000 years failing to achieve as much as he did in 1
>Horus had 9 entire legions and Primarchs at his beck and call.
>After Traitor Legions tore themselves and the Daemon-Primarchs abandoned them for the Great Game of Chaos, Abaddon rebuild them into Black Crusades and is the big bad of the End Times.

I dunno... sounds like the Primarch should be taking notes... I don't see Fulgrim or Mortarion achieving anything.
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>>45376512
alright
oh, look, your arms fell off!
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>>45377262
>My meta has only Space Marines

Wow it must suck to play there.
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>>45377227
Horus started with legion and empire worth of infrastructure. Also not to mention his allies and men were not insane (totally).

Abaddon started with just three marines, one Dark Eldar, and one daemon puppy. With zero infrastructure, just one ship, With this meagre start he built a force that dwarfs anything Horus ever commanded.

It' beyond debate. Abaddon is a better warmaster than Horus. Also a better man since Abaddon retains his freewill while Horus became a puppet for the Chaos Gods.
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>>45377286
Mortarion not achieving anything is him doing the will of Nurgle and tell Tzeentch to suck it.

I suppose Fulgrim is just getting non-stop blowjobs from Daemonettes on his pleasure planet these days.
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>>45377327
>Abaddon retains his freewill
That's what he thinks, but Chaos isn't just a tool for mortals to use for their own benefit. He's making the same mistake Magnus did.
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>>45377394
>Mortarion not achieving anything is him doing the will of Nurgle and tell Tzeentch to suck it.

Actually, Mort is not doing anything is because Draigo one punched back to the Warp. He spent sometime brooding over his defeat.

Abaddon then came along and gifted him a means to get his revenge in exchange for his support.
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>>45376512

Cut that ridicolous knot, take a badass helmet, and I will take you seriously.
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>>45377454
Going by the Black Legion supp and ADB's writing about him....no. It is outright stated in the supp that he has freewill which many of the Chaos fanatics lack.

Abaddon is professional at handling the Chaos Gods and he is determined not to fall into the same mistake Horus did.

Also it kinda helps that he is being watched over by the renegade daemon prince Be'lakor
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>>45377325
what, you think Spess Muhreens are the only ones getting +2 saves?
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>>45376512
People trying to give deep explanations for why the evil guys are doing evil things are the worst.
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>>45377518
>Yeah I'm totes free
>Thousand Son Sorcerer backs this up
>Thousand Son Sorcerer
>Thousand Son
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>>45376512
Like father, like son.
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If Failbbadon hates Horus so much why is he continuing his legacy of failure? I can't wait for GW to finally advance the plot and have Russ or Corax wreck his shit up
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>>45377183
Well it makes sense a for the son to inherit his fathers weapon
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>>45377518
If 40k somehow ever ends and Chaos wins, I want them to fuck over Abaddon and all their mortal followers. Just to make ADB cry. And because if the Imperium can't have the galaxy, nobody should have it
>Abaddon finally reaches the Sol system
>everything falls before him
>every Imperial sacrifice and counter push is eventually in vain
>soon only Terra holds, every other Imperial planet either a barren wasteland or pledged allegiance to Abaddon
>basically he is the new Emperor of the Dark Imperium in everything but name
>soon even the palace falls and Abaddon is at the head of his most loyal soldiers standing before the Golden Throne itself
>just when he raises his fancy blade to finish off the Emperor everyone is frozen
>a single Daemon appears behind the Emperor
>Abaddon is powerless to watch as the Daemon destroys the Golden Throne
>the last thing he hears, before reality is destroyed and his soul is subjected to eternal torment, is the laugh of Chaos gods
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>>45377312
What arms? Ooooooh, you mean the ones we have in our museum of useless galatic tat?
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>>45379435
Actually considering what the chaos gods are like I can totally see that happening because the gods of chaos are dicks.
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>>45379011
>f Failbbadon hates Horus so much why is he continuing his legacy of failure?

First of all, Abaddn did not fail. Stop spouting that stale meme.

Also it's not about Horus. It's about the Emperor and Mankind.
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>>45379435
>>45379463

>I want them to fuck over Abaddon and all their mortal followers.

Like how they fucked over Archaon and his followers in WHFB? My guess is that Abaddon will not get what he really wants but he will become the Chaos Gods greatest champion forever more.
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>>45379435

Chaos Gods are fickle being and anyone that's not Khorne can end up fucking over Abaddon as only his word can genuinely be trusted
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>>45379944
Khorne is the patron of betrayers and backstabbers, anon.
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>>45379822
>First of all, Abaddn did not fail. Stop spouting that stale meme.

I don't have enough laughing girls in my folder for this
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>>45379883
I honestly feel sorry for Archaon.
Dude just wanted to die.
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>>45380009
You can laugh all you want but you are not coming from an fluff angle. Fluffwise, Abaddn did not fail in any of his crusades.

So you either trolling or being an idiot.
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>>45379959

Neither 40kwiki nor lexicanum mention either of those. They sound more like Tzeentch's things.
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>>45379822
>first of all he did not fail.

That's because he set his goals super low

Technically a starving kid in South America is less of a failure than Cam Newton because the starving kid's goal is just to survive everyday.
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>>45380046
>Abaddn did not fail in any of his crusades.
el oh el. Stop posting Abaddon
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>>45380020
He got over it.

Destroying universes is way too much fun.
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>>45380047
Kharn the Betrayer.

>>45380071
Now you are moving the goalpost and being disingenuous.

The goals of the 12 past crusades were to build up his forces and resources and weaken the Imperium for 13th Black Crusade. He accomplished that admirably and miraculously given what he started with and the nature of Chaos.

>>45380078
Refer to >>45380046
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>>45377286
> and is the big bad of the End Times.
When the Crons finally wake up or the Nids arrive in full, Chaos will be fucked harder than Jenna Jameson
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>>45380123
Like how the rise of Nagash and the Skaven fucked over Chaos in WHFB.....oh wait.
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>>45380118

Kharn's case was more about nails taking over and enabling class A rip and tearing and teamkilling. It was closer to mindless bloodlust than scheming and backstabbing.
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>>45380118
Jesus Christ you are retarded.
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>>45380194
He slaughtered his men because he was disgusted with their weakness, hiding from the cold rather than continuing fighting.

Khornates have no friends. They will kill anyone or anything just to satisfy their god. Heck, Khorne would be very impressed if you killed your teammates.
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>>45380150
>Comparing the OPness of the Crons and Nids to Tomb kings and Skaven
Just because they look the same doesn't mean they are the same.
Necrons have proven that they have the technology to shut off the warp & Tyranids posses more numbers than Chaos could ever hope to fight off.
As well neither group can be corrupted by Chaos
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>>45380198
Nope, I am just being right.

I am here talking from position of what's written in the fluff while you have nothing stand on but reaction pictures and insults.
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>>45380234

Got the pages of the other 3 from RoC?
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>>45380236
>Chaos could ever hope to fight off.

Daemons are endless.

Tyranids have been corrupted and driven insane by the Warp before.

>Necrons have proven that they have the technology to shut off the warp

Null fields are fragile and take a lot of energy for them to function. Not all tomb worlds have them. Also Newcrons show no interest in fighting Chaos.

>Just because they look the same doesn't mean they are the same.

Just saying that the narrative will most likely be parallel to what happened in WHFB. Theur fluff is already parallel in many points.
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>>45380298
Sadly, no.
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>>45380257
>Abaddon was merely pretending to be retarded for 10000 years
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>>45380343
I did not say that.

At this point it's just getting sad. Are you trolling or just being stupid intentionally? Try coming up with something from the fluff.
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>>45380390
Says the Chaosfag who thinks that failing is actually succeeding. Abaddon had a ship that could destroy planets and still fucking failed.
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>>45380118
I'm not moving the goal posts because I never said he failed at his Crusades.

I'm just saying compared to what Horus did, Abbadon is paint ball players and Horus is navy seals.
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>>45380423
You put forth nothing from the fluff that proves your position. You are just saying he "he failed because I said so".

Thanks to Planet Killer, Abaddon took 2 Blackstone Fortresses and destroyed one. He traded a ship that destroys planets for two god killing ships that destroy stars. He robbed the Imperium of three powerful bases and weapons.

A good trade, don't ya think?
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>>45380326
Daemons are only endless due to the fact that they can feed off of emotions and psykers. The issue is that the Nids don't provide any emotions or thoughts to feed off of. Now the same is true of the Nids not being able to fed off of Chaos as warp spawn provides no Biomass.
So what it comes down to is who will starve first? And in that debate the Nids the advantage due to them being able to gain Biomass off of nonsentient creatures.

As for the Crons I think you underestimate the hardiness of Null fields, there are examples of Crons being lost in the warp for years upon years and coming out unscythed
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>>45380454
Then refer to (>>45377327).

Two different starting points, two different circumstances. Abaddon has already surpassed Horus in the 13th Black Crusade.
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>>45380468
I'm saying Abaddon failed because he fucking failed. The fact that he's tried 13 times to kill the Emperor and never once came close says it all.
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>>45380515
>The fact that he's tried 13 times to kill the Emperor and never once came close says it all.

Are you fucking kidding me? Nobody can be this stupid.

This has to be a troll.
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>>45380562
I can't believe I responded to you this much...
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>>45380512
Pff. Abbadon hasn't even established himself out of the Eye of Terror. Abbadon hasn't even seen Terra. Abbadon is just now breaking out of the Eye.

Abbadon commands an army of renegades who at the first sign of victory break off and do their own thing.

I'd rather have a 100 of Horus's men than a 1,000 of Abbadon's men.
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>>45380970
>Pff. Abbadon hasn't even established himself out of the Eye of Terror

Yes, he did.

All most traitors outside of the Eye pay homage to Abaddon. He is their sponsor. He is their leader. In fact, if Abaddon didn't launch the First Crusade, then traitor legions would have never escaped their self destructive down spiral. He restored the traitors faith in themselves and the Long War, and by doing that he managed to make Chaos the greatest threat to the Imperium rather than some forgotten danger like they were after the Scouring.
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>>45380469
It's impossible to starve Chaos. There already are human civilizations in the warp, and the warp is connected to other universes entirely to draw energy from.

Chaos is unbeatable.
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>>45380970

Horus' men are with Abaddon, those who did not fail that is. The Despoiler's might dwarfs anything Horus ever commanded.

The weakness of the Primarchs was that they did not understand their place in the greater scheme of things.
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>>45377242
Disabling Strike (for each unsaved wound caused, target model loses 1 WS and 1 S) and ap2 are far more valuable than ap3 and +1 S. You will never end up using the talon in a challenge if you are failbaddon.

Not to mention Horus mathematically can take on abaddon in 2 rounds uninjured, or kill multiple abaddons with ease.
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>>45380390
Why is there always this one anon who pops up in every Abaddon threat to claim he's actually amazing? He's done nothing that actually seriously crippled the Imperium in 10,000 years. If your standards are so low that's a great success, congrats.
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>>45380515
jesus christ you don't know the fluff and yet you argue about it.
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>>45381084
>and the warp is connected to other universes entirely to draw energy from.

let's make up stuff
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>>45381573
Nope, I am saying he is amazing. Just saying he never failed in what he is doing. The fluff speak for itself. If you choose to be ignorant about it, then please do not argue about it.

Also the Black Crusade were the biggest conflicts the Imperium engaged in. Each time the crusades sends the Imperium reeling. In fact, the 13th Black Crusade has drawn the attention of the Imperium so much that it crippled it in so many fronts. It no longer afford to send titans in any other conflict. Massive swathes of the Imperium are left undefended as it musters for war. 1/4 of the Imperium has gone dark, its fate unknown.
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>>45381643
Not him but see >>45380081

AoS confirmed the existence of a multiverse.
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>>45376512
Worth it to Troll the Blood Angels.

He was right to publicly talk down Horus. Even after death and all that clone shit Horus nearly destroyed their Legion. Abaddon remade it - Black,
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>>45382028

You could say Abaddon BLACKED the Primarchs.

Emperor is next.
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>>45380515
Are you shitting me? The first 12 black crusades were raids you twit, nobody is killing the Emperor with one ship and 2 marines no matter how much backing they get from the big 4. Abaddon had to build everything he has now almost from scratch.
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>>45380468
>he had this, this, and this!
And then he lost all of them. Even the last Blackstone Fortress, which is possessed by Slaanesh itself (meaning he can't order it to do fuck all).

Abaddon has failed in his largescale strategic goals in almost every Black Crusade. If he's on a long march to Terra, then it's going to take forever, because in 10,000 years he's only managed to get as far as having a foothold on Cadia. That's right, he doesn't even control the whole damn planet.

But here's the REAL reason Abaddon is a failure.

He's not Horus.

Horus was a better strategist, a better commander, and a better negotiator than Abaddon can ever hope to be, and even with half the Legions behind him, he couldn't take Terra, which is MORE fortified than it was when Horus laid siege to it all those centuries ago. But not only that, the Chaos Legions are a shadow of what they once were. Through attrition, possession, and various other 'things' happening to them they've had their numbers reduced and their skills degraded from what they once were. They don't even have technology as good as the loyalist Marines, and have to make up for it with warp fuckery.

That's the thing about 40K that people forget, EVERYONE is on a downward spiral, not just humanity (go re-read the Dark Eldar codex, the writing is on the wall for them too).
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>>45383079
>And then he lost all of them. Even the last Blackstone Fortress, which is possessed by Slaanesh itself (meaning he can't order it to do fuck all).

Nope, EoT was retconned so he lost nothing. Also the Chaos Gods support Abaddon 100% so if this time around Slaanesh was inside one of them he would serve the Black Crusade.

>Abaddon has failed in his largescale strategic goals in almost every Black Crusade. If he's on a long march to Terra, then it's going to take forever, because in 10,000 years he's only managed to get as far as having a foothold on Cadia. That's right, he doesn't even control the whole damn planet.

This whole sentence shows me that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. None of the 12 Black Crusade were about Cadia and he failed in none of them. There is no buts and ifs. The lore outright states that he has not failed in the goals he set out to do in these crusades. The 13th Black Crusade is the only Crusade that targetting Cadia and going by latest lore it has grabbed more than a foothold on Cadia, the traitor legions have smashed the Cadian Gate apart.

>He's not Horus.

Exceptt hat's the reason he will succeed.

>Horus was a better strategist, a better commander, and a better negotiator than Abaddon can ever hope to be, and even with half the Legions behind him, he couldn't take Terra, which is MORE fortified than it was when Horus laid siege to it all those centuries ago. But not only that, the Chaos Legions are a shadow of what they once were. Through attrition, possession, and various other 'things' happening to them they've had their numbers reduced and their skills degraded from what they once were. They don't even have technology as good as the loyalist Marines, and have to make up for it with warp fuckery.

It's like you haven't opened any 6th ED Chaos book. Look up the Crimson Path, you raving moron.

You post shows that you informed about the subject. Start by reading the Black Legion supplement.
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>>45383079
>the thing about 40K that people forget

ABADDON VICTORIOUS
- Andy Chambers, WD199

"Abaddon has led twelve Black Crusades against the Imperium. Some have been great invasions of whole Legions of the lost and the damned, others have been vicious raids with only a few companies of the most deadly Chaos Space Marines at his command. Each attack has sent the Imperium reeling and ravaged worlds close to the Eye of Terror. The High Lords of Terra live in fear of the day that Abaddon unites all of the Traitor Legions into an unstoppable horde and returns to play out the last acts of treachery begun by Horus ten thousand years ago."

The thing about Mostly Armless Failbaddon that newfags don't know, is that it was a chucklememe for about 15min waaay back when it was new. But the peeps parroting it today as canon are beginning to grate.
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>>45379435
>>Abaddon is powerless to watch as the Daemon destroys the Golden Throne
>the perpetual Emperor immediatelly ressurects
>proceeds to fuck everyone's shit up, bitchslaps the gods and leads humanity to eternal glory
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>>45383735
Fanny Frustrated Failbaddon Fan found.
>>
Abaddon held Cadia and the space surrounding it at the end of the 13th black crusade.
He and his forces almost certainly have destroyed the gates unleashing the eye of terror itself into the universe.
From this prospective he has actually surpassed Horus.
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As of the 13th crusade Abaddon has actually managed to briefly occupy and utterly fuck over Cadia, the lynch pin of the Imperium's defense against the Eye of Terror. He has the Imperium by the throat now, if he manages to unite even five traitor legions the Imperium might fall completely. Not just to him and his war machine, and Abaddon knows this, but also to cult uprisings, civil wars, and all the other problems that the Imperium can normally fix or repress. Fighting his legions will mean the Imperium cannot pay as much attention to orks, tyranids, necrons, and eldar. If he does actually manage to unite all of the remaining traitor legions for a single war against the Imperium it will almost certainly mean the end. They will ravage the route between Cadia and Terra and then obliterate the fucking planet, because that's kind of how Abaddon operates.
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>>45384929
>Someone provides sources and evidence for his claim
>"lol butthurt"

Please kill yourself. I assure you, nobody will miss you.
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>>45380046
Only because his failures have since been retconned.
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>>45386450
Except there was never any retconning. Try reading the fluff sometime instead of getting fanshit from 1d4chan.
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>>45381055
>All most traitors outside of the Eye pay homage to Abaddon
And then they get fucked up by the Imperium. He's not established just because there's always a new bunch of losers to hail him before they're drowned in their own blood. He's established outside the Eye when a force of his is established outside the Eye.
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>>45386777
>And then they get fucked up by the Imperium.

Nope.

There are pirates and raiding forces with their strongholds and empires outside the Eye. Many of them are Black Legionaries or lords who swore loyalty to him. Heck, a fallen Dark Angel ruled a system wide empire before the Eldar got to him. Hey, I forgot something. There is also an advent short story where Iron Warriors who switched to the Black Legion take over a Forgeworld outside the Eye and funnel the tanks and munitions back to the Eye.
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>>45383589
He lost all but one of his Blackstone fortresses before the EoT.

And the last one is still possessed by Slaanesh, since Eldrad Ulthran's demise is still canon.
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>>45386647
>Try reading the fluff sometime instead of getting fanshit from 1d4chan.
I guess this is where you tell me that the Horus Heresy novels are fanshit, since they depict Abbadon as a brutish hothead who doesn't have half the charisma or cunning that Horus does?

A depiction that is 'curiously' in line with how he's been depicted for a long time, and even more recently with the way he's described as executing warbands who don't follow his orders (not that it actually works in the long run, because Chaos is like that). And some stupid line about how "the Primarchs didn't know their place", that sounds like it came right out of the lying mouth of a daemon, is hardly a credible argument in reply.
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>>45379883
Archaon the Everpussy should have died during the Storm like the games represented.
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>>45388285


The Enemy Within


All 13 sorties (or "Black Crusades" to loyalists) were victories:
[M31] (First Black Crusade/ Cadian Sortie): Daemon Sword acquired
2nd/ Belis Corona: A successful raid to pillage a major shipyard

[M32] 3rd/ Gerstahl: Successful remote ritual, power relics attained
[M34] 4th/ Kromarch: Successful punitive assault, retribution achieved
[M36] 5th/ Elysia Sector: Successful strike - 2 chapters destroyed
6th/ Arkreath: Successful coup, the Sons of Horus are fealty-sworn

[M37] 7th/ Ghost War: Successful harvest - Bangel genestocks acquired
8th/ Segmentum Obscurus: Successful mission, daemonic alliances formed

[M38] 9th/ Cancephalus: Successful ambush, naval academy destroyed
[M39] 10th/ Helica Sector: Successful cull, IH chapter decimated
11th/ Waaargh Murgor: Successful harvest, xeno genestocks acquired

[139.M41] 12th/ Gothic: Successfully captured Blackstone Fortresses
[999.M41] 13th/ Current: Road Trip celebrating 10,000yrs of baiting
Loyalists who overlook all of the above, and just bleat about how "No
Arms Failbaddon never took Terra!" ... in a STATIC SETTING.
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>>45388141
I'm not Carnac but Abaddon left the Gothic War with 2 out of the 3 Blackstone Fortresses he'd stolen. One was later supposedly destroyed by Necrons, but during the EoT campaign.

>since Eldrad Ulthran's demise is still canon.
If so, GW haven't done a very good job of showing it.

4e:
>In later years Eldrad became immensely resilient and very powerful. Like many of the most ancient Farseers he grew apart from the world of flesh and blood, and spent long days in the Dome of Crystal Seers. But Eldrad’s works seem doomed to go unfinished. In the desperate days of the Despoiler’s Thirteenth Black Crusade, Eldrad coordinated Ulthwé’s defences. He poured his consciousness into many waystones, passing them to his lieutenants to guide his craftworld’s war. The ancient Farseer led a foray into Abaddon’s greatest weapon-ship: a twisted and prehistoric Blackstone Fortress that was poised to destroy the Human world of Cadia. In a desperate attempt to stop it opening a massive gateway to the Warp, Eldrad entered the Blackstone Fortress’s psychic matrix and pitted his spirit against its corrupted heart. In that instant his mortal body was gone, and all but a handful of his waystones became lifeless and dull.

6e:
>As the fate of the galaxy teeters and the Farseer’s bones slowly turn to crystal, the experiences of Eldrad’s long past show that the lesser races cannot be relied upon to thwart the rising threat of Chaos. If the Eldar are to weather the coming storm, their greatest Farseer must fight on.

7e:
>The millennia have taken their toll, and Eldrad’s body is slowly turning to psychic crystal. Yet he cannot rest. As the fate of the galaxy teeters on the brink, the hard-won experiences of the past show that the lesser races will only hasten the rising threat of Chaos. If the Eldar are to weather the coming storm, their greatest Farseer must fight on with every weapon and strategy at his disposal.
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>>45388588
I wish we were discussing this on /k/, because in military terms, most of them would only be considered near victories, in a couple cases they would be entirely pyrrhic, particularly the Gothic War where he caused a lot of destruction but only walked away with one Blackstone Fortress (out of 3), for the loss of a lot of his forces, including his Planetkiller, which he had to rebuild.

Then there's the fact that Abaddon is hardly the only threat the Imperium has faced, and some of those have come a lot closer to destroying it (and yet it continues to limp on, for 10,000 years), most of which originated within the Imperium. Contrast this with every time the Imperium goes through a resurgence (Macharius wasn't the first, and won't be the last great conquering hero), where it kicks ass and takes huges numbers of planets in the Emperor's name.

The Imperium still has huge swaths of resources to call upon, even in its current state in the fluff, and is still waging offensive campaigns throughout the galaxy. It's not even on the level of desperation, or defensive focus, that it was at during the Horus Heresy, yet as previously stated Terra is actually more well defended than it was at that time, without the obvious reinforcement that it would see in the event of a direct threat (imagine how many Space Marine Chapters would just drop whatever they were doing and head for Terra if they knew it was under threat), since Mars isn't tearing itself apart in civil war, and they've had 10,000 years to build upon the work that Dorn had done.

Also, regarding that tally of Victories, I imagine it wouldn't be so impressive if we had a list of Horus' individual campaigns during the Heresy to compare it against. And Horus didn't have 10,000 years to fuck around.
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>>45388141
>And the last one is still possessed by Slaanesh, since Eldrad Ulthran's demise is still canon.

No, it's not.

As far as correct canon goes, he has two.

>>45388285
All your post is nonsense and has nothing to do with the discussion at hand/

Abaddon of the HH and Abaddon of 40K are different people. He has change over the years and he does he have charisma and willpower to bind the traitor legions together. He had done it 13 times.

You are just an asshoole who hasn't read the fluff and each post exposes you m ore.
>>
>>45388921
>only walked away with one Blackstone Fortress (out of 3), for the loss of a lot of his forces, including his Planetkiller, which he had to rebuild.

He walked away with two, you moron. Two. Also you gott o factor in that the Abaddon denied the Imperium all three of them a ravaged the Gothic sector.

The rest of your post is bullshit and has no reality in the fluff. Read the timeline section in the 6th ED or 7th ED. Imperium is falling apart and can no longer sustain itself and its military campaigns. You are totally disconnected from the fluff.
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>>45385367

The problem is that Abaddon is only one of several big threats. If Ghaz makes his Super Waaagh!, then it will fuck over Abaddon's red path to Terra. If the full force of the Tyranids arrive, it will eat Terra well before Abaddon can ever get there.

Abaddon is only one threat, and maybe not even the most grave. After all, if the Tyranids eat enough of the Galaxy, the Chaos Gods will lose power as there are less souls to fuel them and the Shadow in the Warp drowns them out.
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>>45377327
>With this meagre start he built a force that dwarfs anything Horus ever commanded.

I agree except for this part. The Black Legion itself isn't anywhere near the size the Sons of Horus was by the Battle of Terra, nevermind all the other legion forces Horus commanded.

None of the CSM approach the extent of their former power as legions, which is why the Imperium isn't being overrun.
>>
>>45377286
>>45377394
According to Talon of Horus and latest BL fluff, the Primarchs are more or less dicking around in the Great Game in the Warp and don't care about the Imperium anymore. They'll periodically do stuff like Angron and Mortarion though.

Which makes Abby and a lot of CSM angry.
>>
>>45378671
That's how No Arms manages to stay free, he has other people get nom nom'd by Daemons instead
>>
>>45380515
As of like 6th Edition it's flat-out stated that none of the Black Crusades besides maybe the first one were drives on Terra. On some of them he didn't even bother Cadia. Also the 13th I guess.
>>
>>45381801
Pretty sure the Beast and Tyrannic Wars were the biggest Imperial conflicts till the 13th Black Crusade and 3rd Armageddon.
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>>45383079
Maloghurst is that you?
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>>45384866
As I've said I'm an Imperial fanboy, but if the Emperor is killed before humanity reaches their psychic evolutionary peak then all of reality will be destroyed and replaced with Chaos. Or maybe the Sol system just becomes a new Eye of Terror, presumably if there are too few humans left.

>>45385367
>implying the Imperium won't find, secure and then weaponize the Omnicopaeia correctly
The 13th Black Crusade will be broken by the second Golden Crusade where every human is a strong and incorruptible psyker.

>>45389092
That's true, but isn't the Imperium still almost the largest it has ever been? They can still use scorched Earth tactics and start withdrawing their forces to consolidate their strenght.
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>>45377227
Every Black Crusade has accomplished its goal.
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>>45391966

Not even close, they had almost two million worlds taken by the end of the Great Crusade, the figure we see for "modern" 40k is about a million.

That's not counting the rapid crumbling at the end of the timeline. Segmentum Pacificus has been lost from the astropathic network and the great psychic awakening has led to thousands of worlds being lost to daemonic incursions.
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>>45392033
> Great Crusade
>two million worlds
hmm interesting can sauce that ?
all i remember in HH is "Triumphs are raised on a million worlds to record the epic deeds of his most powerful and deadly warriors."
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>>45380047
If it leads to more bloodshed, he loves it.
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>>45393150
Visions of War page 38; "As the Great Crusade drew to a close, fully two million worlds had been repatriated"
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>>45377138
/thread
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>>45381084
>pic related
Also it's important to remember that the Crons (along with the old ones) effectively created the warp as it is today. If they made it it should be possible that it can be un-made.
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>>45394238
>If they made it it should be possible that it can be un-made.

That doesn't follow at all. Processes cannot always be reversed.
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>>45391328
It's (pre-ADB) codex fluff too:
>The most infamous Daemon Princes come from amongst those Primarchs who sided with Chaos during the Horus Heresy. These are the Primarchs who turned on the Emperor and led their Legions into damnation. Yet for all of the Imperium's hatred levelled at them by the Inquisition, the Daemon Primarchs Angron, Magnus, Mortarion and Fulgrim are content to wage wars against their enemies within the Eye of Terror. It is almost unheard of for them to lead forth their warriors from their Daemon worlds, preferring to leave such petty tasks to favour-seeking, fanatical underlings.

>>45391378
This was something that was apparent beforehand as well - the 3rd edition map showing the paths taken by the Black Crusades, about half of which moved AWAY from the world(s) people claim he was trying to conquer; the only Black Crusade fleshed out prior to the 13th clearly not being about Cadia or Terra at all; the fluff going back to the first Chaos codex saying that some Black Crusades were raids with only a few companies, and that Abaddon has spent the millennia gathering the power he needs to finish the Long War, but not that any individual crusade out of the first 12 was intended to accomplish that goal in one go.
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>>45377327
>With this meagre start he built a force that dwarfs anything Horus ever commanded.
Hell no. That is just GW being retarded as usual.
Horus had around HALF THE IMPERIAL ARMY, HALF THE MECHANICUS AND HALF THE LEGIONS. Abaddon may rule over countless mutants and traitors, but that is a drop in the ocean compared with turning half a pangalactic empire against himself.
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>>45394439

>Although the Deamon Primarch are perhaps the most infamous and adhorred Deamon Princes, there are a few who are older and even more powerful.

Be'lakor's dataslate says he's the oldest and most powerful daemon prince. His rules don't reflect it though (Angron, Samus and Cor'bax have it better) but apparently he's pulled a Sauron, lost his objects of power and is manipulating Admech to search and return them to him.
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>>45394463
>>45391310
Abaddon spent 10K years cultivating not only his mortal forces but the daemonic and godly as well. Horus didn't have the chance to do it.

With the Crimson Path, Abaddon has daemonic legions of the Warp marching alongside him at his beck and call.
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>>45394673
Horus had better technology.
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>>45391310
urh i think BL count more normal troop, ship, deamon
also there alot of renegade marine and other traitor marine can join BL too
>>45394682
Abby had alot conections with deamon and tons of relic like blackstone fortress
also most Abby tech is deamon fuse now
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>>45394720
>also most Abby tech is deamon fuse now
And he hates it.
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>>45394682
Daemonic power trumps Imperial tech
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