The problem is, /tg/ tends to get super buttflustered about any new fantasy, and opinions seem to vary wildly, so its difficult to get a good sense from here what something is like - I'd like it if instead of "good or bad" more people described what shit was like so I could decide if its worth it.
Because I like to read pretty widely, and I have different books for different moods, and I can accept something as lower tier but still enjoyable, or higher tier but a little more dense.
I thought Word of Radiance was kinda ok, his characters didn't feel cardboard cutouts in the same way they did in Way of Kings. God that was such a sludge to go through. I mostly enjoy the world building.
>>45340958 >I figured out who he was only by dint of "TG, books, Brandon... Sanderson?" In this case, you could have just looked at the filename for the image. Unless you're on a phone and it cut off the filename.
>>45340958 >>45340999 Sanderson is mid-tier enjoyable fiction. His worldbuilding is generally better than his characters, which are better than his plots, but they're all generally acceptable. I can understand why some people would get annoyed with people saying that his work is great, though. His stuff is okay, but it's not so good that I felt any regret about dropping him once I found out he was a mormon.
>>45341347 >but it's not so good that I felt any regret about dropping him once I found out he was a mormon I could see dropping him if he was a nazi, but a mormon? What do they do, besides build their fucking churches in like 2 days?
>>45341664 Mormonism is a modern day 'cult' it preaches that the church is your new family and that you should spend time with them instead of your biological family.
Basically it alienates you from your previous life (sometimes forcibly) I know someone in a Mormon 'convent' it's basically some faux-missionary shit where they stay a few cities away but CANNOT have outside contact, no phones, internet etc. You CANNOT contact your family, you just be a mormon for months on end.
They incredibly insular and that makes them weird.
>>45341977 If it was a specific branch of Islam, (like how Mormonism is technically a specific branch of Christianity) you could totally say that, obviously it's still a little prejudice, but it's no different from "I dropped him when I found he was a Sunni" etc
Obviously in the west Muslims generally make up a small minority, and thus the specific splits and divides to said overarching religion aren't as well known. So you'll have less people understand and thus more likely to take it poorly, but it's not like you could never say it ever.
I actually think a good comparison might be "He believes in a fundamentalist version of Sharia law, so I dropped him."
>>45342297 Lately I've been on a good trip with the October Daye series by Seanan McGuire. It's in some ways it's actually pretty similar to the Dresden Files, particularly because it delves heavily into the whole Aos Sidhe mythology. Personally I found the first volume to be a bit uneven, but the following ones got quite a bit better.
>>45341664 treating cultists like normal people only encourages them. Plus when you buy their stuff they get royalties, and they tithe their income so you're essentially supporting their cult. It's a policy I formed for scientologists - that policy being that I leave their stuff alone, except that I'm not that fanatical about it so if it's really good I'll still buy it. Meaning that I haven't watched most of Tom Cruise's recent movies but I still read Orson Scott Card.
Mormonism is a cult, and the fact that they're such nice people doesn't change that.
>>45342297 It would depend on your definition of urban fantasy but I'm in the process of reading Jonathan L. Howard's Johannes Cabal series. I'd really recommend it if you are in the mood for black comedy with an evil protagonist. I hear the audiobooks are good.
>>45342385 >Mormonism is a cult, and the fact that they're such nice people doesn't change that. "Regular" religion is just cults that got really big, but if you try not to pay for anything somebody belonging to a religion did, you're going to be seriously deprived.
>>45342798 Yeah, I get what you're saying. I just think it's worth bearing in mind that Christian organizations do a lot of fucked up shit too, but we just kind of shrug it off because either we're Christian, ourselves, or we're used to being around them.
>>45342764 >"Regular" religion is just cults that got really big No. I mean, yes in the sense that they started out that way, but no to the idea that they are the same only bigger. There are subsets within Christianity, Islam, etc that could be called cults, but those religions overall function very differently from something like scientology.
>>45340999 Sanderson: Superb world building. Well thought out societies (with a couple exceptions) that feel like real people would form those societies if given magic.
Internally consistent magic systems. No "Harry learns this one spell that saves the day, then forgets about it in future books ". Magic that obeys hard set rules and would be wonderful if ported over to an rpg.
Hit or miss characters. Some are really cool, some are Mary Sues. Secondary characters especially prone to character traits that seem rolled on a d100 chart instead of based on backstory.
Plot. Learn how to do proper pacing. For the love of God learn how to pace your stories!
>>45340275 >Why is Brandon so often recommended? His books are shit. because different people have different tastes and just because YOU don't like an author's work does not make that author objectively bad.
>>45340275 One of the best world builders in the current sci-fi fantasy bracket. Really good at telling you stuff about the setting, but telling it to you in a way that you won't get without that one missing piece. Really good at providing those missing pieces at the perfect moment to make you go "AHhh, HA!". Magic and casting systems are well defined and he put real work into it, and you can feel like you actually know stuff about how the magic works in that setting... unlike harry potter or a few other famous settings.
>>45341397 Erikson is too much in love with his setting imo. Don't get me wrong it is an amazing setting and I bet he has a grimoire somewhere with EVERYTHING written down about the world, but he is so focused on telling you things about the world that he rarely lets characters do REAL things in the world. 90% of the things that resolve conflicts in the setting are deus ex machinas that come completely out of left field. Most of it is rushed and forced, with "We're walking, we're walking.... SUDDENLY THE END TIMES ARE UPON US AND ALL IS LOST, ALL IS LOST!". He leaves so many loose ends that you could weave several complete story arcs just out of them, and perhaps that is what he is intending.
Either Sanderson or Erikson would make an awesome tabletop game.
>>45345690 Malazan literally is a tabletop game. He started writing the books only after playing games in the setting for like 20 years, mostly using heavily homebrewed Pathfinder if you can believe that.
>>45345690 >Magic and casting systems are well defined and he put real work into it, and you can feel like you actually know stuff about how the magic works in that setting See, here's the thing. I only read the first Mistborn book, because I promised my bro I would. And I only read the one, because it was garbage. The highest compliment I have is that Mistborn was the best anime I've ever read, but since I had to read it, it instantly made the gimmicks look retarded.
The worldbuilding, regardless of how meticulous it is, falls short because of how utterly retarded the main concept is. The heroes eat metal to gain superpowers. It is impossible to look past such fucking idiocy. Secondoff, the plotholes and asspulls riddled at the end make reflection upon the climax fall apart. Notwithstanding the unlikable fucking characters. The main girl wins basically all her conflicts because "she's just that good" and the fucking anime protagonist Kelsier is an unlikable dangerous cunt who never gets told how fucking terrible a person he is and in the end he's even deified. Because hey, slavery is badwrong, everyone! A caste system sucks!
Saw Sanderson's picture on tg, wondered why a discussion about an author was in Tg and not in lit so i checked it out, thread is full of ignorant people spreading slander about mormons. can't say i'm particularly surprised about that last one, considering the community. Back to the original topic, i think a lot of people like Sanderson because it's a bit more original that your standard fantasy. It's not just dwarves and elves and the quest to for the magical mcguffin that composes a significant portion of fantasy novels.
>>45340810 >The Silmarillion >Difficult to read Why do people always say that? The Silmarillion is a master piece, Tolkien's best by far. There's nothing difficult about it, it's incredibly engrossing and easy to lose one's self in.
As someone who was a Mormon convert, it's more of a misunderstanding about split-off cults from a split-off cult.
Even normal Mormons are weird ass people who are a.) racist (their entire Book of Mormon is racist BS - Evil Jews became American Indians), b.) incredibly conservative to the point that Sunday is essentially no fun allowed day (unless you really like Church and reading religious gospel), and c.) are literally trying to take over the world by converting it. One Stake at a time.
On topic: Sanderson has a very minimalist style of prose, and I don't find it terribly engaging.
>>45346460 The only time I've "read" LotR was when my dad used it as a bedtime story. I was considering picking it up again but my friend who had just finished a read through of the series including the Silmarillion advised against it. Should I give it a go? If so, which do I start with?
>>45346291 He borrowed Obama's time machine. But when that didn't work, he just used regular D&D, which some newfags refer to as Pathfinder because they're so new to RPGs that they don't know where that came from.
>>45346590 Might as well go for it. LoTR rings more sense maybe if you read the Silmarillion first, or at least the world and the mythology and such is more fleshed out, but most would not recommend reading the Silmarillion unless you really like LoTR. Honestly tough the Silmarillion can stand alone, without the LoTR but it's not really a single story, but more a collection of different stories though all related. The only thing I can think of that might turn people off to the Silmarillion is the first part that covers the creation of the world, it is a bit abstract and biblical, but the rest is amazing.
I would advise against starting with the Silmarillion. It was originally Tolkien's setting notes, is written in an older style of prose (a former friend described it as a "bad Bible knockoff"), and worse, the end of the book literally spoils the plots of the Hobbit, and the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
>>45346341 I'm honestly not sure why you find the idea of gaining magic powers by ingesting a specific substance to be such a immersion breaking thing considering that its a relatively common concept in fantasy.
>>45341664 Well he can't help but inject Mormonism into his work. Halfway through Words of Radiance it dawned on me that Stormlight Archive is him retelling the Book of Mormon. Dalinar is Joseph Smith, Parshendi and Voidbringers are the two ancient Jewish tribes that came to America and one wiped the other out.
It got super obvious in the scene where Dalinar's notes are handed out at the party. It's just Brandon Sanderson describing how butthurt he gets when people call the Book of Mormon dumb.
I made it halfway through the third Mistborn book before I gave it up. I'm not even sure why I got that far. The main character is such a boring Mary Sue. (I know that term is overused but it seriously applies here)
>>45346291 Obviously they didn't use PF originally, but if you've seen literally any interview where he talks about the setting, he brings up the PF campaign that spawned Anomander Rake, Moonspawn etc. I don't know what they used before, but the other guy who was consistently in his group also writes books within the Malazan universe, also based on their campaign.
You should check out the magicans by Lev Grossman, I think the magic is very reminiscent of AD&D if you cut out the murderhobos. Alternatively you should check out Patrick Rossfuss, books are great if you can get over him living out his fantasies through them and being kind of preachy
>>45348244 If you can stomach some angst I'd like to second The Magicians' recommendation. The world and its magic are pretty neat. It's sort of a nihilistic post grad Harry Potter but with internal consistency.
>>45346341 >Kelsier is an unlikable dangerous cunt who never gets told how fucking terrible a person he is and in the end he's even deified
But its made pretty clear that the people who actually know him best: the crewmembers, his brother, and Vin. Are all of the opinion "I love him, but he was a fucking dick". He is revered by the rubes he strung along into revering him. . . because he's a conman and that's what he does.
But yeah Sanderson isn't amazing at characters and plot, but he is one of the best at something nerds love to nitpick about: continuity. His meta-narrative between 4 series and 9 novels and 4 novellas (thus far) has yet to show any signs of continuity lapses whereas other authors can't keep that shit straight in a single series
>>45348244 >Patrick Rossfuss, books are great if you can get over him living out his fantasies through them
That's literally the whole book. Well, that and then cringey nonsense. I stopped reading after Kvothe broke his fucking lute, then kept playing and still brought an entire room of people to tears. Terrible pacing, terrible characters, super obvious attempt at a deconstruction of typical fantasy, boring overall plot.
>>45351759 This desu senpai. I stopped reading when a literal sex goddess said Kvothe was the greatest lover of all time and then he went off to be trained in the art of swordsmanship by the marysue Vulcan ninjas.
>>45340747 >implying my town had a Barnes and Noble
Also, I have never heard of him before this thread, and don't recognize his face or any of his books that I just looked up. I can't tell if I'm out of the loop or if OP is baiting with an author no one has never heard of.
>>45347334 To play the doubles advocate, there was at least a large part of the Way of Kings dedicated to them seriously considering if he was legitimately going insane or not, and it wasn't brushed aside or treated as a strawman
>>45351759 The fact the people recommend Rothfuss is insane to me. His books are just an endless masturbatory self-insert angst fantasy. I feel like I'm drenched in Rothfuss cum after reading a couple pages.
>>45351759 I thought this was actually acceptable as it was previously established that he spent a year in the wilderness with a lute missing strings. So, he was basically drawing on the knowledge he built then.
What's more retarded is he had sex with a goddess and then came back to pine for denna.
>>45352657 >>45347321 It's very specifically just that. The idea of metabolizing a substance like metal, and gaining very specific superpowers therefrom is just bafflingly dumb to me. The Feruchemy was a lot more interesting and I felt it'd serve a story better, just ditch Allomancy entirely. My brother explained to me the backstory for the retarded metal shit and it doesn't help at all.
>he is one of the best at something nerds love to nitpick about: continuity. Okay, then answer me this. In-story, in-universe, what is the stated reason for the second executions?
Kelsier "finds Marsh's dead body", which is in itself such an asspull bullshit sequelhook mystery, and then gets revenge by destroying the atium mines. Seemingly in response, more executions are about to happen, including the kandra and Spook, and because friendship(read: KEEPING THE PLAN ALIVE) Kelsier storms in, gets killed, and then Operation: Martyr Messiah Complex enters the final stage.
But, hang on. At the end, we learn that the Lord Ruler didn't know the atium mines were destroyed. And since Vin wasn't outed as the Mistborn yet, he had no reason to suspect the impersonated family.
So, why the executions, and why include them? They would visibly just be another family trying to escape the coming house wars. Where's the fucking reasoning?
Oh also then Vin realizes where Kelsier stashed all the weapons, but that's not a continuity problem, it's a "how the fuck would she even think of that, why would that be her first thought" problem. Also Vin's an idiot.
The entire climax is filled with these half-answers that only serve to justify a sequel, and even then, it has a "happy ending" because Vin gets to fuck the one good nobleman. Fuck how it all works meta-continuity wise, the way they "revealed" things was asinine and jarring.
>>45353256 >So you like one arbitrary magic power but not the other? Yeah, because at least it followed some sort of logic. It's basically enchanting objects using your own physical qualities as the enchantment power. Allomancy is a very specific way of people gaining distinct superpowers from ingesting specific metals. Like I said, if this were an anime, I could look past this kind of silliness because batshit powers are par for the course, but in prose it comes across as ludicrous. I can't explain that, though, so I'm fine dismissing that argument.
>The Inquisitors that were looking for her tracked her down to Renoux's mansion, I guess? It's not like The Lord Ruler cared about the executions, he wasn't even in charge of them. By that point they would've been at the docks though. And if he didn't care about the executions, why have them? Whose idea was it? Why wasn't this shit covered in the book? - more in next, this shit bugged the fuck out of me
>He had three books planned, dude. Iunno, when you write a story and break it into separate parts like this, you have to treat each individual part as its own story. It's not about "giving away everything interesting", but rather, when things keep being revealed purely to the convenience of the narrative, it comes across as lazy.
>ah, shit, Vin still has metals in her stomach. she could fight back, oh wait, nah, the Inquisitors have a metal that removes them all. okay. >Oh, hey! Marsh isn't dead, he's actually an Inquisitor now, because the process of it leaves dead bodies which they mistook for his. Uh, okay, but then why would they leave that body there when that's supposed to be a Soothing station? ah whatever >Marsh actually killed all the other Inquisitors! oh, how...convenient >and he distracts the Lord Ruler long enough for Vin to use the eleventh metal to see into the past >Vin, who is so bookdumb she doesn't get the value of the logbook, and is still not fully literate, is able to put two and two and x together and realize the Lord Ruler is actually the traitor. because character consistency >then she pulls metal out of someone's body >yeah, the Lord Ruler could do it, why not her? aside from the fact that it wasn't even thought to be possible, and was thought as a rule impossible >yeah, why not, she's just that good. cuz "the mists helped her", okay. Eleventh hour powerups that solve all their problems, just like my chinese cartoons!
You can't just shoot all the conflict in the foot like that for the sake of foreshadowing. The way it ends there's no reason to read a sequel because they already killed Sauron-Hitler.
Just checked and word of god says they tracked Vin down to Renoux's barge procession, but she wasn't there. Lord Ruler has the executions as a way to show how big his dick is and that he's in charge, he doesn't care about who gets executed so long as it's obvious he's on top.
It is all covered in the book, and in later books, maybe you just missed it because you weren't much into reading it.
>>45353457 I'm of the type that believes if Word of God has to explain it, then they weren't writing well enough to make it clear, but the reason for the executions does make sense and I do remember it from the books. It just feels unnecessary considering they already had the big executions a couple weeks ago. Still, I read for three things mainly. Worldbuilding, plot, and characters. The world, while structurally sound and somewhat "okay" culturewise, wasn't engaging enough. The plot was too bareboned straightforward and focused on the least interesting parts most of the time, and the characters were mostly fucking unlikable jerks. So I'm not really inclined to read anything else of his ever again.
Either way, like I said, the action was decent. He can write a good fight scene and stupid as I found the eating metals thing, the push/pulling metal from yourself was at least well implemented.
>>45342297 It's written as a childrens book, but the bartimaeus trilogy is kickass.
I'm assuming you've read Dresden, so you might enjoy Kevin Hearne's 'Iron Druid books', or Patricia Briggs 'Mercy Thompson' books. They're both quick, and not what I'd ever call great, but they're good for a quick fun few hours.
You might be able to call Terry Pratchetts 'Sam Vimes' books urban fantasy, sense they're about the struggles of a metropolis policeman in a fantasy setting, but the use of the term usually implies modern, so I don't know if that's what you're looking for.
Jim Hines 'Libriomancer' books might be worth a look. Those are about a modern sect of magic who use books sort of as fuel sources. There's some good shit and some magical realm shit, but the magical realm shit isn't overwhelming, and the characters are all fun. Books are pretty light.
If you want something very very not light you might like Glen Cooks 'Garret PI'.
Last one I read recently, which is probably my favorite after Bartimaeus, is 'Jackaby', by william ritter, which is kind of a supernatural setting sherlock holmes.
I'll give it to you that malazan book of the fallen has a great start and is extensive...
but Erikson made a tons of bad decisions.
He decided to connect a lot of characters through backstory,
He decided to give more importance to some characters through backstory in newer books. This lead to making cool or interesting characters evolve to mary sue status. Also his need to extend their background actually didn't help. He over-saturated the characters. Most characters had a functioning backstory and there was no need to expand it. Books should go foward. Not going backwards every few chapters.
Also backstory of Malazan Empire was retarded. In less than one generation Pirate islands became Roman Empire at it's highest peak.
>>45353722 >Did you miss how the whole point of the books is that he's failed utterly, lost everything, and is totally broken?
That doesn't really count for much because the focus of the books is completely lopsided in favour of Kvothe being awesome. About 95% of the narrative is always focused on Kvothe being the raddest motherfucker on earth. Once every now and then it goes back to the present day where he's not anymore, but only a few pages later it's all "Okay anyways, now back to the good part where Kvothe is banging a literal sex goddess so well that even she's impressed".
It's like if you wanted to write a book about how drug abuse is harmful, and then just kept writing about all the incredibly amazing experiences the protagonist had with drugs, only to slip in on the very last page "Well and then I guess he died from an overdose or something, so don't do drugs, mmkay?"
>>45353432 >Iunno, when you write a story and break it into separate parts like this, you have to treat each individual part as its own story. Personally I've noticed a pattern that the first book of a trilogy can usually be considered standalone, sometimes with a small hook to the second, the second leave a bunch of open ends for the third, and the third wraps it all up. Although that might just be for books that got popular enough to warrant sequels, not planned trilogies.
I always recommend The Night Circus when I catch a book thread. It's not very /tg/ and more romance than fantasy, but the description of magic in it is beautiful and I think it's worth a read for any fantasy writing aspirant or GM for reference on how to tell magic.
>>45354288 You know, there's legitimate reasons not to like those books. The felurian bits are extravagant, the whole series is designed to appeal to a pretty narrow subset of readers, they're fucking massive, I could go on.
Being too retarded to understand subtext isn't one of them.
And for all of the obstacles heaped in Kvothe's way, he overcomes them in a hop, skip and a jump. Money is the only persistent one, and even that's gone now. They don't mean anything, he doesn't achieve anything by overcoming them. Just "Bang! Look at how good Kvothe is! Next!"
>>45354643 I see the subtext, I understand the subtext. But subtext being present doesn't automatically make bad text good. Particularly not if that bad text takes up far and away the majority of the work.
Like, the fucking Transformers movies have some potentially interesting subtext if you're willing to go delve deep enough. That doesn't actually make them good.
>>45354643 >>45354667 I forgot to mention the biggest reason not to like those books. They're going to end in tragedy, and so, so many people are going to be so, so pissed that he didn't get a happy ending after all. The thing with Kvothe and Denna is riffing on a couple different things, but one of the biggest influences is Cyrano de Bergerac, who, like Kvothe, is basically unstoppable, brilliant, poetic, etc. He composed a ballad while dueling a man, accomplished unimaginable feats on a battlefield, and then died a bitch death after 2 hours of pining for an unrequited love.
>>45354288 >About 95% of the narrative is always focused on Kvothe being the raddest motherfucker on earth. This, fucking this so much. I can't fucking stand it. The entire book could have been summed up as just "hey, you know, there's this guy, you want to know how cool he is? he's so fucking cool, like, you won't even believe how cool he is. all the coolest shit happens to him and he's just so fucking cool!"
I can't believe anyone reads that shit and likes it.
>>45353145 >SA book 1 was trash IMO I thoroughly enjoied the book after I learned to skip every part with the magic thief girl. The best part is that I lost nothing going in to book two because Sanderson makes sure to explain everything three times.
>>45355420 Shallon did pretty much fuck all of note until halfway through book 2. I get why she was there, but it utterly ground the pacing of Dalinar/Kaladin's arcs to a halt and I skipped it without regret later on.
>>45355498 >He should stop writing books and write background material or settings for D&D or something, where he's a perfect fit I want him to DM D&D for me. He'd run a fabulous beer and pretzels game.
>>45355498 Fantasy fans will read anything as long as there's a lot of it. It could be the dryest, blandest piece of literature out there but as long as there's a lot of fluff they'll eat it up. It's why shit authors can get away with so much.
>>45342297 In terms of urban fantasy, I'm a big fan of the Rivers of London series (first book being bastardized into Midnight Riot for 'Merica). Starts off a tad cliche with the magic cop, but the magic "system" is damn neat and I love the characters.
>>45340275 My biggest complaint with him is the exceptionally prosaic storyline with all twists being hinted at in previous chapters, making them about as impactful as the amount of reference material required to understand where the whole series is going by the first 200 pages or so. I've read through The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance and I must say I'm not giving him another chance. First off the magic and his "medieval jedi" are bland as fuck. But then the characters reel their ugly, stereotypical heads. Let's bring out the checklist: a wronged, rebellious young natural leader with a heart of gold, a "free spirited" disney princess equivalent that likes to draw for all the geeky girls out there, a HEY,LISTEN fairy with a twist, that can be seen a mile away and a guy I like to call Diet Sanguinius. Is he a hack? Yes. Is he readable? Yes. Will you enjoy it? Meh.
>>45355581 That's kinda true, but I can't blame them. When you're already reading 5 different series and hoping that MAYBE one of them will have a new book drop this year, anything that's long and finished already looks pretty attractive.
Also, nerds like the idea that heaps and piles of characters and places to remember means that they are better at reading books than normal people.
>Jordan and Erikson are geniuses, you don't get it man, you want your books to hold your hand. I'm 16 and these are the best series I've ever read.
>>45340275 I liked the Stormlight Archive. He had good reasoning for making magic work the way it did, instead of coping out with "It's magic I ain't gotta explain shit."
Shallan was pretty meh but I attribute that to an inability to connect with her character. Whenever she was in a dark place and was really beaten down, I didn't really care. I never really cared about the problems with her family because it was never emotionally connected in any way to her character (at least that's how I saw it). Her main redeeming factor is the fact that she seems to be, at least probably, useful in some way with regards to making illusions.
I liked Kaladin, Dalinar, and Adolin the most of any of the characters. Elhokar can go fuck himself. Dalinar's struggle with Sadeas was well portrayed and Kaladin's and Adolin's growth into friendship was very nice. I couldn't give a shit about the plight of the parshmen. Szeth was an interesting character, if not poorly motivated, and Brandon never used the "show, don't tell" rule with many of the characters. Don't tell me why Szeth was upset. Show me that he's upset and let me figure it out.
the success of Branderson and Rothfuss etc. is actually what drove me away from trying to get my own writing published. people don't want to read the fantasy stuff I write, and they don't want to pay for it.
>>45355937 Do you have a literary agent, mate? Worked for me, but acquiring one is a pain in the ass. I guess as an editor in a major publishing house, I will say this: 99 percent of all inquiries sent are never even glanced over. My selection field is nonfiction, but I know how my colleagues operate. My own novel took 3 years to take off. Grind through it, I wish that you succeed in your endeavor.
>>45355740 The problem I have is that he tends to show characters quite well, then batters you over the head by telling you. He needs to either get a better editor, learn some restraint or have more faith in his readers ability to comprehend.
>>45355973 murder mystery leading into political intrigue in a pseudo classical antiquity setting. basically a small time con man gets himself in trouble because his gf fucked with the wrong people's daughter
>>45355998 Depends on the company policies. Some companies forbid pasting in the body of the letter, some are afraid to open attachments. But the main reason is the unprofessional approach many people in the industry have. When they log in and see their bloated e-mail, full of inquiries, they either delete that shit and browse around or send automatic responses en masse so you dont bother them further. It's pretty fucked up.
>>45356094 Also, the minority of letters that do get scanned by selectionfags are quickly judged according to current literary trending. I'm not going to spoil who I am, but expect a satire of young adult fiction and paranormal romance, mixed in with black humor and a dash of over the top bullshit in the future to hit the shelves.
>>45355865 No it's the high fantasy with magical power armors and magical swords and emotion elementals. The first book was basically a 1000 introduction to the setting, and the main guy is just pages upon pages of "I'm good and bad people hate me cause I'm good, please sympathize".
>>45356424 A professional approach would be to give at the very least some of the letters a minor glance before the auto responses kick in. Who knows how many masterpieces lay hidden among that pile of unread messages in their inboxes. Nonfiction is much easier on me, since basically most of the works that I receive for a review are highly acclaimed scientists or rising stars in the field, that are mostly already established, plus we don't really get the same amount of inquiries as the fictionfags.
Just got done reading some Al-Khalili in my leisure time. Shit was cash.
>>45353432 Except it's repeatedly made clear that the characters don't know shit about the magic system. Hell, six books and lots of hints from the author and we still don't know everything that's going on. You reckon a thousand year empire isn't going to keep some special magic tricks for itself?
I'm pretty sure they just left the place covered in blood, not with actual bodies.
Marsh doing that is pretty much the only time his infiltration of the Empire's bureaucracy accomplished anything, which is kind of the point.
I don't see what being bookdumb has to do with it. She recognised that the Lord Ruler was Rashek because he had armbands on, the same as Sazed wears, because they're both Terris.
As for the thing with the mists - admittedly, you don't get an explanation for why that is possible until the third book. And the reason for her being able to only do it then 9and not recreatethe feat) is actually tied up in other magic systems, such as how Inquisitors are created,
THe entire point of the second book is that killing the Lord Ruler doesn't solve all their problems because warlords take power and the characters are sitll limited in their power. Hell, by some standards killing the Lord RUler makes the world worse, and that's before the protagonists manage to fuck the world up even more.
The thing about the Mistborn series is that in most fantasy, the world has a lot of fantastic things which are disconnected and unrelated. In Mistborn, it seems that way at first (koloss, kandra, inquisitors, allomancy, feruchemy, the Lord Ruler, the Well of Ascension, the metals, atium) but it turns out they're all part of a single consistent system, it's just the people in the world don't understand it.
You didn't want to read the sequel, fine. But only reading the first book in a three book series (itself one of several series set in the world) and then complaining that not everything is explained is stupid.
>>45358961 If the writing of the first book leaves me not with a feeling of "I wanna know more" but with one of "boy this shit is never gonna be resolved", then it's not exactly my fault I didn't throw my money at the sequel. There are authors that are able to tell a complete, understandable story that doesn't need 4 sequels and a guide book to parse, in one volume, and I'd rather read those because if you can't do that, it's not a choice to not do that. It means you're bad at being a writer.
>>45359045 Eh, to each his own. I definitely had the "I wanna know more" feeling when the first book finished, and that has only increased as the sequels have gone on. The newer series is set centuries after the first three books and is even better, in my opinion, partly because the characters are much better and partly because the power level has been scaled down - there aren't any mistborn or full feruchemists any more, you only get one power of each at most. That plus guns has made the magic and fight scenes more interesting.
Sure, I know it's not great literature or anything, but it's enjoyable.
I think his books would make excellent miniserieses. Elantris is a great idea, so is Mistborn, and War...breaker? Whatever. They're all great ideas but his writing is just OK. His characters are usually good but sometimes they're so weird..
Also the fact that he's a Mormon affects things. Like in Elantris is two characters finally get together and are in love and... They, like, kiss. He also doesn't address things like... Is there rape in Elantris? There should be nothing but rape in there, but it never comes up. Which is fine but it just seems noticeably absent. He could have said the cursed people can't get it up or whatever to explain, but it's like he didn't think of that at all? Idk. That sort of thing happens a lot. Like in Mistborn you have the same thing where bad guys have sex (usually rape or meeean sex) and good guys have no lust at all, never think about it, just hand holding until marriage and even then it isn't mentioned really.
But anyway, it's like Neil Gaiman.. I like his ideas but his books themselves just don't do it for me and are boring/badly written sometimes or just focus on the wrong stuff..
So I'd like to see the story retold in an hbo or whatever show, improved somewhat. I think most of his books would be really great shows.
>>45360175 Well, I like the setting. Sorry if that annoys you, but I find if I can't find the setting immersive and conhesive then no matter how good the plot or characters are I simpyl can't enjoy it.
As for Sanderson, I find his plots perfectly good - nothing fantastic, but interesting enough I keep reading, and with some really nice twists.
The first book of each of his series's each have weaker plots, and Mistborn's is pretty weak - but I enjoyed it enough to keep reading, and the fantastic finale to Well of Ascension plus the utter avalanche that was the end of The Hero of Ages more than made up for it, in my mind.
Shadows of Self was pretty cleverly done as well, even if the whole "discover the shapeshifter" plot isn't exactly new.
As for characters well, again this only personal opinion, but I really enjoyed the character arcs Elend, Spook and Sazed get throughout the series. Vin kind of stalls in development during book 3, but her conflicts in Book 2 are quite major and I think reasonably well done.
>>45361299 Eh... the books are formulaic. There's an investigation, several supernatural factions involved, some combination of Harry's allies lend a hand at an opportune time, Harry ends up getting beat to hell by the climax, at which point he beats a superior opponent through some combination of (unseen but mentioned) planning, cunning, luck and skill.
In recent books, the formula has disappeared a little bit, and the stakes the character has been playing for have gotten bigger - or rather, it's become clearer to the main character exactly what the stakes are.
He was always planned to have something of a Chosen One vibe, it's simply that the writer was planning a long series and early on it was much more noir-styled. The move away from that, to a status quo where the main character is a major supernatural player is a bit jarring.
Mary Sue is a bit much (it's an overused expression), though. He's still got massive flaws, which often cause him and his allies big problems. He's powerful, but his new powers have come at a price in recent books, and he still has to beat the bad guys with planning, cunning and skill.
That's not to say they're great books or anything. But they're enjoyable reads, if you want some mindless escapism.
I think his characters are good, but he has trouble explaining their traits sometimes, and does too much tell when his showing is good enough.
Sometimes I think he adds quirks to make characters more interesting but it comes off as really forced. Like, the princess in Elantris was OK but he spent so long making her annoying and insecure and telling us how outspoken she was etc. And instead of just having her be outspoken it's like she literally remembers her father saying she needs to be more demure, then the king is telling her "ur a woman! I'm a jerk!" Etc. She is always worrying that she's too tall which is dumb, or not pretty but everyone says she is, etc.
I think it would have been a better book if the blackguard priest guy never made himself sick but instead made us think he was gonna poison her and kill her but then she gets cursed and we're like oh my God she's cursed for real, then she goes to Elantris and meets the prince (he was a great character i think) and falls for him and gives some hints that she's not really cursed like needing to eat etc and then the priest guy "cures" her and we realise it was fake....
Uh.. But ya my point is he needs someone to revise his shit and fix things like that that don't make sense.
Oh and like earlier I said the lack of sex thing, I thought of another example. Eland can't bang Vin, it's illegal and will result in her death, but this is never mentioned despite being something that could be a great source of drama and make their relationship dangerous to the group etc. It just never comes up. Because it didn't occur to him that those two might want to bang, because he's Mormon or whatever.
Warbreaker was written *after* he got married so we get a cute scene where the girl bounces around and screams so the guys listening think they're having sex. It's a nice idea, so you can really see the difference between a virgin writing vs someone who had sex, but also those characters were married.
>>45361682 That Vin and Eland never worried about sex specifically never struck me as odd. Vin spent the time where this would have been an issue impersonating a noble and plotting high treason, which she could have been executed for anyway. That on top of her being a Ska mistborn which is a capital crime in and of itself. Eland was unaware for most of the story and pretty busy with the whole civil war angle later.
>>45361682 I don't see any problem with that. If he doesn't want to write about it, I don't really care.
Elantris was his first novel, and is kind of clunky when I look back on it. Hrathen (the priest's) were always the redeeming part of that novel for me.
As for making himself sick - he needed to do that to persuade the King that he could, in fact, cure the disease, so he could make the deal that the king would declare his own religion the state religion if he cured Sarene.
WHy would Elend not be allowed to bang Vin? While not explicitly stated, it was pretty clear to me they became intimate near the end of the second book, and it's simply something in the background from then on.
>>45361299 While the quality of writing might not be top Notch, calling the MC a Mary Sue only indicates that the person in question has no clue whatsoever what it means, even in the hyperbolic way that people bastardise it to.
Because it's against the law to breed with skaa or whatever idk.
I'm just saying there are some issues in general with the books that could be fixed earlier in editing, but the same could be said for recent Tarantino films so it's not meant to be a huge criticism. I liked all his books that I read. I think Elantris was probably my favourite despite having the worst writing.
That's only under the Final Empire' rules, and Elend and Vin were only starting their relationship in the first book and I think that's why they didn't have sex. Its never explicitly mentioned but heavily implied they were doing it in the second book getting married and all
But I can see why people may find Sanderson's general lack of sexual content in his books odd in a genre dominated for the past decade and a half by George "The two Rs stand for Double Rape" Martin
Yea, I just think there's a middle ground I guess. It's not just a lack of actual sex even... More like the character have no passion. Even their love related stuff (which is present) seems to be very "we are in love now." Or whatever. Eland and Vin had chemistry in the first book in some of the ball scenes which was nice, but still not much. Like maybe people who are in love should think about each other more often and get butterflies when they see each other etc. I think he could use work in that whole aspect of his books. He obviously wants to include romance, but he doesn't really work well in that area, I guess. Like there are a lot of "oh, they gonna kiss!" Moments that just slip by, leaving me wondering if he'd even been on a date when writing those books. :/ oh well. It doesn't make me dislike him, just leaves me wishing he included more of that stuff, since the romance is like... almost there? Idk
>>45353129 I thought the part where he survived in the wilds was pretty stupid too, cause he was just a kid who really shouldn't have had the skills to do so. I know he spent his life traveling with a troupe, but traveling the roads with a caravan is very different from surviving in the woods alone.
Only part of the book I liked was the part in Tarbean where Kvothe was broken, little more than an animal driven to survive.
>>45354288 >That doesn't really count for much because the focus of the books is completely lopsided in favour of Kvothe being awesome. About 95% of the narrative is always focused on Kvothe being the raddest motherfucker on earth.
why does this myth keep being perpetuated? the Kingkiller Chronicle has a lot of problems, but Kvothe being a literal god that who everyone adores at all times and is the best at everything isn't one of them.
it's always the same kind of poster too, some guy who has the critical analysis skills of the average /v/ poster ("this is either LITERALLY the best thing ever or LITERALLY the worst thing ever it made my eyes bleed!!). tone down the hyperbole the next time you attempt to make a point, jesus.
About the sex thing, It's pretty clear they're banging ever since the end of the first book. I guess Sanderson could make it more obvious, but after reading a hundred pages of Rothfuss's faerie slashfiction I was glad that part of their relationship was glossed over.
>>45359310 Find a publisher and literally fuck them. Figure out their kinks and indulge to the deepest degree possible.
You think I'm joking, or that I'm at least being cynical, so let me put it another way: there is no honest means by which you can acquire a fair shake as a novelist. There are, flatly, too many fucking authors on the one hand and too many incentives to just not give a fuck and develop effective (and unfair) business models on the other hand.
The question you're asking is like "how can I professionally approach a bank to give me a reasonable long-term mortgage for a medium-size house despite being fresh out of college?" or "how can I professionally approach the political system to enter the running for state representative without a prior footprint as a political entity." Not only can you not do that, there are amoral forces in place that don't want you to do that because it would be annoying and complicated for them to manage even if it wouldn't necessarily harm them or their profits.
Because /tg/ is first and foremost, a haven for gamers, not people who dive headfirst into fantasy- as-reading. Sanderson does very good fantasy "stuff", one of the best in modern authors. He makes cool magical systems, he makes cool monsters, he makes neat "systems" that usually hold together pretty well, are far more internally consistent than say, someone like Eddings, whose application of magical systems tends to make you wonder how come Belgarath hasn't eliminated the entire Angarak people yet.
But he's not that great when it comes to the more classic writing skills, making sure you have good characters, good plots, creating a world with versimilitude, etc. Contrast Mistborn with say, Lord of the Rings, which I am choosing because they're both trilogies, both well known, and I've read the former, which I cannot say for all of Sanderson's bibliography. While you obviously will have some exceptions to a question of preference, I think it would be fair to say that most people will think LoTR is a better work, and in 50 years from now, you'll have a hell of a lot more people reading Tolkien than reading Sanderson.
But that's the wrong question to ask here. Instead, go with
>Which work makes for a better ttrpg?
And the answer would clearly be mistborn, where the causes and effects of magic are much more known and knowable, where you don't have any "DMPC" analogues the way Gandalf and to a lesser extent Elrond are. You don't have to wrestle with his books to be sure how much of what the narrator is telling you is actually true, and you can often break down a conflict between two characters into a simple and well-defined set of mechanics.
/tg/, by and large, judges its fantasy authors by how well they'd write a game system, not a book. Sanderson does this very well.
>>45355956 If I'm remembering correctly, the latest one was where he was stuck in Bumfuck, Nowhere for a while? I think that was intentionally meant to be a break from the overarching story, but I'm with you in that a return to form will be awesome.
>>45340732 completely my experience as well. it really gets bogged down by the descriptions of setting/ landscapes / tangibles.. which is a shame because I was really drawn in by his magic system and 'quick' ben's character.
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