MTG April Banned List Speculation:
Modern: Eye of Ugin, Chalice of the Void, and Batterskull banned. Stoneforge Mystic, Ancestral Vision, Splinter Twin, and Deathrite Shaman unbanned.
Legacy: No changes
Vintage: No changes
EDH/Commander: Seedborn Muse banned. Tasigur, the Golden Fang banned as a general.
>Tasigur, the Golden Fang banned as a general.
They don't do that anymore, there's only 1 banlist. Also, it's not THAT good.
Seedborn is also safe. Prophet gave flash to creatures and essentially gave you free turns. Seedborn is much harder to take advantage of.
I like to think stoneforge will get unbanned. Maybe bloodbraid elf too. Heck, maybe even Jace, no meme intended.
I really, really doubt it for ancestral visions, though. They banned treasure cruise because draw 3 for blue is OP, and that hasn't changed.
>deathrite shaman unbanned
u wot m8
i doubt even chalice gets banned. probably just eye of ugin if eldrazi keeps raping everything like that poorly drawn picture i saw on rule34 one time
>Banning cards from EDH that were designed only to be played in EDH and kitchen table
>Modern: Eye of Ugin, Chalice of the Void, and Batterskull banned. Stoneforge Mystic, Ancestral Vision, Splinter Twin, and Deathrite Shaman unbanned.
This will never happen.
What I expect is an Eldrazi Temple ban, although like this article shows: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/how-build/how-tweak-pro-tour-decks-2016-02-09 WotC does seem to think (or want people to think) that the meta can adapt to Eldrazi.
In a perfect world they would do this:
Ban Eye of Ugin
Green Sun's Zenith
With all those new cards Modern might need some reprints, but it would be much better than the shitheap of a format we currently have.
>Chalice of the Void
Why? Chalice can go in a wide variety of decks. Eye of Ugin is the problem.
Also would Stoneforge + Batterskull actually harm the current meta? Thought-Knot could remove whatever Stoneforge dug up, but if the Eldrazi player already played Thought-Knot and exiled something else, Batterskull would give them a very, very bad day.
GSZ will make Hatebears an actually good deck, and Song makes Ascension Storm and Ritual Gifts viable.
The format needs some kind of fast combo to keep all the aggro in check, and Storm is easier to hate out than Eggs or Amulet Bloom.
See, this guy >>45333535 knows why Modern needs Song back.
Holy crap, some of these fucking cards are banned?
I don't play MtG, but isn't it kind of bullshit that these guys can sell you a bunch of cards, then tell you that you can't use some of them?
It's like, nigga, I bought these cards because they were worthwhile enough for you to publish, and now you're banning them?
I don't even play this game and that pisses me off. Wow.
Terminus lets Miracles shit on Aggro AND most Combo decks, breaking the sacred
Control counters Combo
Combo outraces Aggro
Aggro plays under Control
I don't follow Vintage enough to make judgements on it.
WotC's absurd reprint policies are another issue.
In an ideal world Modern Masters would be a large print run every year, and Eternal Masters would be about as frequent as MM currently is.
The reserved list would be an old memory.
Keep in mind that MtG was released during the same Era that ebay first started and Beanie Baby collecting was all the rage.
WoTC most likely wanted Magic to compete with the craze that was Beanie Babies.
Twin with pestermite was one thing, but exarch doesn't die to bolt, requires extremely awkward counters, and makes the combo way too consistent. Twin combo nowadays is literally something that you can put into any mainboard that runs blue and/or red (you just need one shock of the other color and hold a fetch) for unexpected game one wins that can be optionally boarded out games 2/3.
Deathrite Shaman cannot be unbanned. Bloodbraid Elf is what should be unbanned. The only reason Bloodbraid Elf was banned was because it got caught in the crossfire of how stupid a card Deathrite Shaman was.
Are you actually fucking serious? Goblins wins the last relevant event, sideboards exist, and you think Terminus is the problem? It doesn't even do anything in half of your games.
I don't think Twin was a balance ban, it was a "diversity" ban. Same reason why Stoneforge is banned and is going to stay that way; any deck in the right color(s) is instantly improved by including it, because the interaction is just that powerful.
Eh, Terminus isn't that huge a deal for goblins, since they can drop a ringleader immediately after and flood the board again, and the cards going back into the deck means matron can just tutor them out again. The real reason Goblins doesn't win anymore is Deathrite Shaman. Miracles is a decent matchup.
I can understand Twin being nerfed somehow, because even the prospect of its best line of play shapes your third turn.
Ban Eye of Ugin, ban Simian Spirit Guide, ban Urza's Tower makes sense if they want to neuter the fast mana decks, because then nobody can drop Chalice T1 and including it just gives you dead draws.
Unban Stoneforge Mystic/ban Batterskull, unban Splinter Twin/ban Deceiver Exarch and Village Bell-Ringer. Splinter Twin and Stoneforge are okay when the lines of play that made them difficult to beat are gone.
Ancestral Vision would only ever come off if and when they decide to kill Cascade for good. Kolaghan's Command would have to die for Best Elf's sins.
Restricting lodestone would come too close to killing the archetype
The triangle works backwards in legacy. Aggro beats combo, combo beats control, control beats aggro. Generally at least.
Misdirection isn't why I said so, it's a bit, but not the 100%.
The 100% is
Both very common.
Recall is better, yes, but in rather common scenarios cruise is better.
Before Magic, most CCGs would go a few expansions, have some expensive cards, and then print them aggressively into the dirt until the game lost all value.
MTG, on the other hand, from almost right out of the gate was able to promise that your cards would retain value, and that buying cards for collection's sake wouldn't be pointless. It helped Magic get through that rough period early on, but now I'm pretty sure everyone feels like it's holding them back.
see, this is the thing. everyone talks real big about how humongous magic is and how they rake in big cash and this and that and so on so forth. magic is way bigger than any other ccg, sure. compared to other businesses that don't have to have huge design and PR and art teams though? magic is a fraction of any given subsection of shitty star wars merchandise, for example. for all i know hasbro makes more money from monopoly than from magic. not even profit, I mean just how much they get regardless of how much money they have to put in. and they probably put in a lot less money, so the profit margins are even bigger right?
anyway the specific answer to “what was wizards thinking” is pretty simple. they were thinking, “oh shit we literally just got sued for piles of money, better make sure that doesn’t happen again”. i’m pretty curious how that law shit even works for collectors to be able to sue wizards for reprinting stuff. sounds absurd to me.
I think that it benefits the company to keep staples super expensive because it means they can rest easy that stuff like modern masters will be super high demand. sure, they could milk it more and make more money in the short term AND give the playerbase the cheaper cards that we all want. but it is probably an easy choice to not do that and sit on that insurance policy even if the format remains super expensive.
do you guys think that these kinds of big corps know what they are doing when it comes to niche shit like magic? i feel like in terms of making mtg more profitable, investment in modo would pay them back huge in the long term. wouldn’t it have to? they must make a lot of money off of modo already, but there’s just no way they are getting the quantity of new players and $$$ spenders on that platform that they would be if it wasn’t so legendarily shit tier.
As literally this entire Standard has shown, Wizards doesn't actually care about cards being jammed into decks. Look at Kolaghan's Command, BtL, and Swiftspear.
Splinter Twin was banned because the wanted to shake things up for the Pro Tour, and Stoneforge is banned because it was dominant in Extended, and unbannings are practically fucking impossible for some reason.
Both of these reasons are essentially because Aaron Forscythe has his head up his ass and is incapable of admitting fault.
People seriously underestimate how bad the seniority and executive issues at WoTC are.
>Splinter Twin and Stoneforge are okay when the lines of play that made them difficult to beat are gone.
>I don't like losing to combo decks
People like you are why Wizards bans combo decks. It's unhealthy for the format for it to be shaped this way. There has to be a way to keep decks honest.
Oh they know exactly what they're doing. Having card prices consistently high actually makes the game more attractive, because it suggests the possibility of making money down the line. You see this on a low level with chase rares and mythics on a set-by-set basis as people with more money than sense open packs trying to get a $60 jace or whatever. It's the same concept on a larger scale with older cards, because it encourages speculation and buying lost of cards to hold onto the ones that may be valuable down the road.
Of course, it's all an illusion, and it's incredibly difficult to make any significant amount of money this way, but as long as the illusion is there, WotC's bottom line reaps the benefits.
stoneforge is banned because it's an autoinclude in literally any white deck. in fact, if it was in the format, why would you ever not include white in any nonlinear deck ever? i don't understand why people want it unbanned. why would unbanning it make the format better?
>Look at Kolaghan's Command, BtL, and Swiftspear.
... what about them? lol
sometimes i read shit on here and i just wonder what people are even trying to say
They don't care about diversity on that level in standard, because the format rotates naturally. Sure, Thragtusk was in every competitive deck when it was in standard, but it was only there for a year. Modern doesn't rotate, so a card like Stoneforge Mystic will always be the best thing you can be doing in White, and it only gets stronger as more artifacts are printed. Twin isn't on the same level, but it's the same concept.
I agree with you, they wanted to shake things up for the pro tour. The two statements aren't mutually exclusive. This is precisely the problem with Modern as a Pro Tour Format; The PT is a marketing tool, no more, no less. WotC doesn't give a shit about what happens during the tournament itself as long as people get excited about magic and buy packs. Splinter Twin has been a player in the metagame for as long as Modern has existed, and they needed to ensure that the metagame was shaken up, because that's what they do. The fact that it paved the way for decks packed full of cards from the newest set is icing on the cake.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that the DCI doesn't know what they're doing. They know exactly what they're doing, and they're very good at it. Despite all the complaints, Modern is the fastest-growing format in Magic by far. It's absolutely exploded in recent years. Hell, Aaron Forsythe basically warned that this shit would happen by keeping Modern as a PT format, but nobody payed any attention and bitched and moaned that they were "killing modern" until they reinstated it.
The problem isn't that Stoneforge is "good enough that people want to play it." The problem is that Stoneforge is so good that everyone in white HAS to play it, or they're building their deck wrong, and even people not in white should strongly consider it. It's an easily splashable, 6(or less)-card package that instantly makes any non-combo deck in which it's included better.
This cheeky fucker needs a swift banning if I'm to be honestly fair.
You are all whining about Eye of Ugin being op while there are so many land destruction solutions.
There is literally no answer to this guy. He's not a land! How could you Crumble to Dust???
yeah, but the reserve list is only symbolically related to that. wizards makes money on new sets because there are valuable cards in them, yes, but that wouldn't stop happening if they reprinted ABUR duals. similarly, tarmogoyf doesn't need to be a $200 card for oath of the gatewatch to make them money.
or does it? i think the price of modern staples, and i guess to a lesser extent the existence of the reserve list, does help wizards because it sends a message. by not reprinting reserve list cards and by not reprinting the fuck out of expensive modern staples, they are telling everyone that the chase rares they open oath for or just the staples they trade for in general aren't going to suddenly lose their value because of a reprint. by keeping modern expensive by keeping modern masters (or other equivalent reprints of staples) rare and with low print runs they make sure all the impetus for acquiring new cards stays there.
>what about them
They are in every single deck that runs their colours and objective. Thats literally my point.
People want it unbanned because they want to be able to play a deck that uses Stoneforge as an engine, an engine that isn't particularly stronger than any other in the format. You wouldn't run it if you didnt want to run an equipment centric white deck.
>Aaron Forsythe basically warned that this shit would happen by keeping Modern as a PT format,
Aaron Forscythe is literally the reason this is happening like this. Modern being a PT format doesn't mean we have to play ban roulette every year. It is literally only happening because the DCI wants it to happen, and is incapable of admitting it doesn't work.
Theres no reason or a fraction of the banlist to even be banned, and theres no reason for the PT to predicate bans, it's just what Forscythe wants.
>Modern being a PT format doesn't mean we have to play ban roulette every year.
No, that's exactly why that happens. If Legacy or Vintage were pro tour formats, they'd experience the same shit. They've all but confirmed this themselves.
are... are you two retarded? swiftspear is played in one deck. it's not a value creature. you're not doing anything wrong if you're not playing it. ??? like, did you mean some other card? young pyromancer maybe? nobody really plays that either.
kolaghan's command is definitely above average for a value spell. it's pretty average for modern in general. playing midrange without it is probably wrong because it is generally better than electrolyze. too bad midrange is dead eh?
>bring to light
ffucken people are too fast to talk about shit they clearly are not up to date with
at what point since this card came out did literally anyone think it was good in modern? holy shit
> Stoneforge as an engine
it's not an engine lmao
You could make the same argument about Path or Tarmogoyf. The format has strong cards, deal with it.
Stoneforge is banned because of a rollover from a ban of a deck that wouldn't even be viable in Modern. I doubt even Batterskull would be enough to make StoneSwords a dominant engine.
You know what it would do though? It would introduce a new deck type into the format via a practically dead card type (equipment), which would greatly increase the competitive diversity of the format.
But no, Wizards is incapable of admitting fault, so instead we get "competitive diversity" through Eye of Ugin and banning Twin.
>they make sure all the impetus for acquiring new cards stays there.
Precisely. Of course, they don't need the Reserve List to do that, and they've publicly agreed that it was a mistake, but the basic principle behind it is still in place. If they were to abolish the reserve list, they wouldn't suddenly start reprinting legacy staples en masse like some people seem to believe, it would just allow them to better support Legacy and Vintage instead of being largely forced to ignore them and let them die slow deaths/shift them to MTGO exclusively.
i wouldnt worry about that anon, the eldrazi deck is overpowered as fuck and will definitely get banned out some way or another.
but i gotta say it really triggers me when u cucks say retarded shit like
>unbanning a card that will go into literally every deck in its color will increase the competitive diversity of the format
how can anyone think that lmao
And storm crow dies to Rending Volley
How the fuck do you plan to Rending Volley a fucking RED card, huh?
Marky Rosenberg, pls ban!
Are you trolling? Zoo and Burn being practically monobuilds doesn't mean that Swiftspear isn't an auto-include in all of them. If anything, you're proving my point by showing that Zoo and Burn are already monobuild decks.
Nobody cares about how much a card gets played by percentage, what matters is how dominant the card is in it's archetype. Stoneforge wouldn't be anywhere close to dominant in White, let alone taking over the format.
We already have tons of cards that get jammed in to decks, hell Jund and Burn are pretty close to being practically solved.
>how can anyone think that lmao
The decks Stoneforge would fit in literally don't exist in the format, and White is dead as it is outside of Junk and support in Melira decks.
I have no idea how you think that bringing in a new archetype and reviving an entire colour wouldn't increase the diversity of the format.
No, because you can play red without bolt (Tron, Living End), blue without snappy (Merfolk) and green without goyf (again Tron, Amulet Bloom before ban, Boggles, Hatebears, Scapeshift). Path is the best removal spell in Modern so that doesn't really count.
but it's not an auto-include in zoo LOL
seriously, are you retarded? did you even read the fucking card? prowess triggers on noncreature spells I seriously cannot fathom how anyone would think swiftspear would be good in that deck jesus christ im literally losing iq points just trying to think down to your level holy fuck
and that's all besides the point, the primary reason everything you're saying is literally meaningless. let us suppose it is an auto include in zoo, in addition to being played in burn. so what? you're literally complaining that some cards are better in some decks than any other card available to that deck. i don't really know what you thought but uh the reality is that no matter what they print that will be the case. there will be an ideal way to build a deck vs the meta, with maybe some flex slots sure but not often many. like if all it takes to trigger you is a new card being printed that gets played in TWO whole decks, i dont even know what to say lmao. clearly wizards should just never print anything modern playable ever again right?
>Nobody cares about how much a card gets played by percentage, what matters is how dominant the card is in it's archetype
yeah, bring to light sure is dominant in the archetype of uh... idk, retarded decks built by retards? lmao
>The decks Stoneforge would fit in literally don't exist in the format
>white is dead
well uh right now idk if you noticed but literally every color is dead so I'm not too sure what your point is. you could unban literally ANYTHING on the banlist or add cards from older sets and "increase the diversity" of the format by edging out the OP as fuck eldrazi deck with another OP as fuck deck. prior to that, jund gained popularity over junk just because of kolaghan's command bring printed and its utility as a value spell and pre sideboard for the increasingly popular affinity threat. that's all it took, you know? stoneforge would make junk the stronger midrange deck by far, although that's not the problem with it - the problem is, if you are playing a nonlinear deck, why would you ever not add white for stoneforge?
in any case im not too sure why you think any of the things you do. of the top 8 decks at the pro tour, there is in fact a deck that would play stoneforge - the archangel of thune / spike feeder chord deck.
in terms of other decks at the pro tour, the more common melira / finks chord deck would obviously play it as well. there were a lot of people on that deck and probably some on kiki chord as well, and all three of those decks would obviously be just insane with stoneforge in them. so while right now is a rather unique point in time for modern, you're still hilariously incorrect about everything you just said.
Really? Living End and Scapeshift aren't combo decks? Hatebears, a deck that is less than 1% of the meta, is SO REAL?
You sound about as intelligent as Wizard's meta advice regarding Eldrazi decks.
>white is dead outside of junk and support for melira decks
>nuh uh, it was totally played in junk and melira!!!
you uh, have reading problems too in addition to your crippling retardation? i didn't mention junk nor was there any junk at the pro tour. melira isn't played in the archangel of thune / spike feeder deck, and even if she were played in that deck I think it's hard to call white the support color when you have double white mana symbols on your spells.
the deck runs 3 cards that aren't path or a combo piece in the mainboard
what does the number of white cards even have to do with anything?
what does path not count as?
really just, what point are you even trying to communicate?
will we ever be able to truly communicate with retard children?
I see, we're pretending to be retarded now. Let me try.
your entire post says nothing, nice
i guess you're really out of ideas now, better pretend you don't have a basic idea of how the game works?
i guess the spells a deck plays dont have anything to do with its color now or the role it plays now?
guess we'd better accept wizards flawless ban strats because archetypes are made up and colors dont mean anything
I hope you're happy, that hurt to write.
again, wat? I'm just calling out the objecively incorrect shit you're saying, because i'm pretty lost about the overall point you're trying to make. for example, you said
>deck plays one white spell that isn't a combo piece or Path
and I said
>no, it runs 3
since you seem to be pretty lost about the topic overall, let me just summarize what we've said to each other so far. you started out by saying
>The decks Stoneforge would fit in literally don't exist in the format
to which i showed you three decks that performed well at the pro tour in which stoneforge would fit. you also said
>White is dead as it is outside of Junk and support in Melira decks.
which i thought was funny considering that nobody actually plays junk, but anyway i showed you that even though basically every color is dead right now since the top 8 decks are all blue/red eldrazi, colorless eldrazi, or green/white chord, there are decks that play white. your response was
>nuh uh, it was totally played in junk!!!
so i guess im not even sure why im arguing with a retard lol
>you're literally complaining that some cards are better in some decks than any other card available to that deck
This is obviously bait, but you're the one complaining about this. Im making the case that this is already true. You're trying to tell me that Stoneforge would somehow be dominant and thats why its banned, Im saying that there are already plenty of dominant cards.
>retarded decks built by retards?
TIL Scapeshift doesn't exist.
> stoneforge would make junk the stronger midrange deck by far, although that's not the problem with it - the problem is, if you are playing a nonlinear deck, why would you ever not add white for stoneforge?
Junk wouldn't really want Stoneforge. You would have to cut 8-10 really efficient cards in exchange for a marginal engine that doesn't trade well and topdecks like shit. Thats against BGx's entire gameplan.
Melira decks would likely want it, but it would be more of a diversity/variety situation, in an archetype that has flexibility in everything down to it's wincon. Stoneforge is just so deck and resource intensive that it really has to power something out to be worth it.
The really best kept secret of this whole situation is that Stoneforge isn't a particularly good card. Its strong, sure, but not banning strong. The only reason it's banned is due to Caw-Blade in a completely different format, and even that was only dominant due to it's reliability and being backed up by JtMS.
Even with Jace backing it up, Caw-Blade wouldn't be particularly strong in Modern, and there isn't really anything (not even Batterskull) that Stoneforge can break. Equipment isn't great if it's not going to rush and win you the game, which is why we don't see Equipment in Modern like ever.
>You're trying to tell me that Stoneforge would somehow be dominant and thats why its banned, Im saying that there are already plenty of dominant cards.
like swiftspear, which is played in 1 deck, like kolaghan's command, which is played in 2 decks, like bring to light, which is played in 0 decks? are you retarded? your counterpoint to me saying that stoneforge would be so dominant that it would warp nonlinear decks to HAVING TO PLAY THE CARD is to name a bunch of narrow nondominant cards? ok anon, i guess if that makes sense to you lol.
>TIL Scapeshift doesn't exist.
you did indeed learn that today. scapeshift is 1% of the meta. clear sign that bring to light is a dominant card kek
>Junk wouldn't really want Stoneforge
>ridiculous value is against BGx's entire gameplan
oh, i guess you just don't know anything about modern or stoneforge. ok then, ill stop aggravating your behind, noob
>topdecks like shit
Demonic Tutor finding Batterskull or Sword of X&Y is a shit topdeck now?
>Stoneforge isn't a particularly good card.
Oh, you're either trolling or just a retard. I get it now.
To be fair the other BGx deck in Modern would shit all over Stoneforge.
What bugs me is that with Eldrazi decks sitting at or above 20% of the metagame at the top levels, Wizards is trying to tell people everything is fine. It's not. If Stoneforge were unbanned and became a fifth of the metagame, it'd be banned again inside of a week with a shitty "I told you so" article on the mothership calling us all faggots.
>which is played in 1 deck
Who cares how many decks it's played in? That isn't what were talking about. The fact that it's played in every single deck in it's archetype is what makes it dominant. Cards like Snappy, Tarmogoyf, Serum Visions, Kommand, Guide, and Swiftspear. Hell most of Affinity and BGx are filled with dominant cards.
Unless you're actually going to try and make the point that Stoneforge would be format level dominant, in which case I have to laugh at you. The card has one shit purpose and it's only marginally good at that.
>ridiculous value is against BGx's entire game plan
Stoneforge ives you significantly less value than Snap or Bob, and it heavily sets BGx back due to having to put a pile of shit Equipment in your deck to even do anything, let alone actually execute it's plan.
>Demonic Tutor finding Batterskull or Sword of X&Y is a shit topdeck now?
Equipment as a type is shit all around, and gets blasted by half of virtually all sideboards. Pulling a Sword off the top without a presence is literally a dead draw, and even with a presence it's too much of a resource drain to be efficient. Stoneforge just allows Equipment to be viable, there's a reason practically zero decks use any Swords or Skull, and the decks that can easily slot them out.
Stoneforge was only strong, let alone banned, because Caw-Blade was better than everything else thanks to Jace support. Caw-Blade would get demolished by anything in Modern, and theres nothing else in the format for Stoneforge to break.