/kowg/ Kings of war general
& Mantic general
Tournament results edition
Recommended list builder:
Hit "PDF" at the top right for easy posting of your lists
Includes relevant special rules on the last page
Top 3 lists from West Virginia tournament
Orcs “Ax, Mo’Ax and Drums Oh My!”
4x Ax Horde (Fire Oil, Blade of Slashing)
4x Morax Troop
2x Orcling Horde
2x Godspeaker (Both with Heal 2)
2x War Drum
Elves “Heavy Cavalry and Arrows to the Face”
Kindred Archers Horde (Brew of Keen-eyeness)
Palace Guard Horde (Fire-Oil)
Kindred Tallspears Horde (Brew of Strength)
Silverbreeze Cavalry (Diadem of Dragon-kind)
2x Stormwind Cavalry (Potion of the Caterpillar, Helm of Confidence)
2x Dragon Breath
Army Standard Bearer (War-bow of Kaba)
Elven Mage (Inspiring Talisman, Bane Chant)
Dragon Kindred Lord (Ensorcelled Armor)
Varangur “Pain Train of Ugly”
2x Sons of Korgaan Regiment (Headstrong, Fury)
2x The Fallen Horde (Blade of Slashing)
3x Tundra Wolves Troop
Mounted Sons of Korgaan Regiment (Potion of Caterpillar, Headstrong, Fury)
King on Chimera (Medallion of Life, Headstrong, Fury)
Skald (Healing Charm)
Guerrilla Minitures, that Ash guy who used to be part of MiniWargaming, is starting a Kings of War series. He uploaded his first game ever today.
It's kind of one sided, but it's only his first match of KoW, and he got pretty fucked by rolls.
I bought my
girlfrienda Mortarch, what kind of unit could they fill in as and could they possibly fit on the base sizes provided by Mantic? Shewas looking at running it as Nefarata.
The largest base size for a single model in KoW is 50x100mm, iirc, so thatmd be your main limiting factor.
I suppose a Vampire on Undead Dragon would be your best bet. Maybe a Vampire on Undead Pegasus, though the model is probably too big for that.
Hey does anyone know what's going on with Mantic's website? In the shop, the leftmost tabs no longer have Deadzone or Warpath. All that's there is Dreadball, KoW, and their other little games.
What gives? Are they dropping the scifi titles in favor of yet another shitty zombie game?
Both games are going into new edition with associated shit ton of new models in the next 3-4 months. Warpath barely had anything anyway. I guess they've chosen to forgo ordering any more of the old stuff to be manufactured, so they've nothing to sell.
I'm starting to change my mind about the quality of the lore. Basilea and Empire of Dust have pretty good stories behind them, a good start at least.
Depend what you want them to do, but probably troop if you just want them to run interference or weave around looking for flanks or targets of opportunity.
Bear in mind there is a provision in the rules for larger bases- the rule in those cases is to just use the smallest possible base. Only certain units won't let you, like the Night Stalker Portal.
I think the fluff has a great starting point, barring a few stupid names here and there, so I'm very interested to see where Mantic will take things as time goes on.
Part of why I've been liking Mantic so much lately is because of how similar in feel their company is to how GW was about ten or fifteen years ago
Six of them appear to be stone throwers, 2-4 organ guns, the flame cannons and regular cannons are hard to differentiate but he has a lot of both, and I can't pick out any bolt throwers, but that's likely because he has auch bad resolution on the image
Infantry seems to be in ~ 10 x 10 blocks, and about 12-14 of those blocks, so maybe 1200 troops. Assuming an average to be Ironclad regiments we can ballpark it at 60x110 pts or ~700k points infantry alone at the minimum
>I'm starting to change my mind about the quality of the lore. Basilea and Empire of Dust have pretty good stories behind them, a good start at least.
What's the bit on Basilea anyway? There's not much but the fragments of a greater society at their weakpoint made a blood pact but with anti-chaos gods. Reminds me of Byzantine emerging from the broken Roman empire, but with celestials and turning into an oppressive "we're totally the good guys" church-centric empire that would otherwise be crushed in a tide of anti-celestials.
Basilea seems to me like the only base faction that wasn't just covering a fantasy standard. That and possibly abyssal dwarves. The Uncharted Armies stuff is actually pretty cool, though brief and probably never going to be expanded on any more.
I hope they, at the very least, expand on the original armies from Uncharted Empires. I can understand if they don't want to just be "Everybody is bargain bin WHFB", but I feel like the new armies, like Nightstalkers or Fishwomen should get fluff continuing forward.
That's fine by me- it only needs to be a base, and I don't ever want it to get to a point where there's fluff that says what you can't do, rather then just stuff that enables you
>can use any models, not just the official ones in sanctioned play
>currently being supported with FAQs and developers that give a shit
>not games workshop
>actually playtested at all
>multibasing and no casualty removal lets you make interesting units instead of just a block of 20 identical dudes
Pretty much fixes all my issues, personally.
I'll be generous and assume that you're being sincere and not simply fishing for replies by shitting on a game in its own general thread.
Tourney results say otherwise, we've been seeing a decent spread. Even the trends we do see probably have as much to do with what people have made armies for as anything else (no nertica lists for example)
Firstly I don't think that RPS is bad (works well in Age of Empires for a vidya example), but I don't even think that KoW is RPS. Sure you get things like phalanx stopping cav and light cav beating archers and lone heroes (which is a good thing), but that really does pale in comparison to maneuvering units properly and making trades. Even shitty units are effective with a flank or rear charge.
>Shitty community full of assholes
You've made the most incendiary posts in this thread, so far. The last few threads were all civil and enjoyable.
You mean missile units and war machines can put the hurt on blocks of infantry but are unable to deal with cavalry easily?
The hell else would you suggest? Also KoW is far, far more balanced between armies than WHFB was.
You could have found a better bait than that.
Balanced far better than any other mass fantasy game on the market and playtested by the gamerbase, any remaining shortcomings are therefore the fault of the gamerbase (and will likely get addressed in time).
Basic scenarios are correctly balanced and add a smidgen of variation to play, more out there stuff likely to come in the campaign supplement. Also the game and it's community actively encourages you to run your own scenarios.
>Shitty community full of assholes
Where as you present yourself as the epitome of charm.
Dude you really haven't played much if you think this. You might have played one or two games. The core mechanics don't have much RPS built into the stats beyond Def and anti-Def (which is moot once flanks are involved), it's all in the positioning and strategic movement.
That's been the case for a long time now.
You can still search for stuff if you know what you're looking for (e.g. search for "forgefathers" will turn up stuff from those categories), but you can't buy them.
So I needed to grab 2 troops of Red Goblin Scouts to round my Ogres out to 2000 points for a tourney.
Mantic Fleabag riders (AUD$40) all have the same GIGANTIC gaping maws which are a bit too goofy for me.
The GW Goblin wolf riders (AUD$55) conversely look a bit too tame.
I found the solution: 1/72 scale totally-not-LOTR-wargs-guise. Made in Ukraine, seem to have decent detail, and a dozen figures for only 9 pounds (~AUD$18) and a few dollars postage. The scale difference actually works because the orcs will be goblin sized.
I'm pretty happy.
Not bad, the armored one looks pretty cool tough the plastic looks cheap.
I myself I think I would use Labyrinth like ones like those ones (if they are made) than look right into my alley.
The Day someone makes those little-biting-things-in-a-stick is the day I can die happy. The problem with this sculpt is than I can't find if they are 28mm (to detailed I think) and they will be part of a Labyrinth boardgame.
For Goblins tough you can't go better than Kevin Adams, he was the one than made the old WH ones (and lost an eye to some burglars).
I think he does 28mm ones, but probably the height of his goblins varies a lot.
While looking for it I found an interview about how he started and all. They were a wee bit fucked up in the '80 england to say the least.
>dat exposure for the game
>dat video quality
>dem nicely painted minis
Shining Ones be praised
I have the main rulebook ordered. Im interested in porting over my fantasy stuff to this system. are the empire and chaos dwarfs any good/have stats for most of their stuff in this system?
cool. I have like 4000 points or more of empire so its good that its statted well. im planning on starting a chaos dwarf force so I can read the abyssal dwarf entries and buy accordingly.
Are Mantic actually improving the quality of their plastic kits?
I'm pleasantly surprised.
By the way that one is lower abyssals, this one is Succubi
I'd like to see an eastern themed set of armies at some point. Maybe Imperial Chinese with monkey men, warrior monks, and terracotta warriors, or Indian maharajahs leading rakshasa berserks and elephants, or kitsune samurai and tsuki-usagi.
There is a minimal KoW selection at House of War in Ringwood. I hear that they have a few regular players.
As a matter of fact there is a tourney being held there in March, you should join us.
Well, I did back the Kensei Undead kickstarter and am planning to make an undead army built around those models, but if we're talking Magical Christmas Land, I'd still love to see an official eastern themed supplement, especially a non-human Japanese mythology themed army. Granted I think that is probably not going to happen, but it is something I'd personally like to see.
The Locust City Chiefs. Not sure if they're getting a Warpath army or not though.
Some anons on here always seem to have trouble accessing them, but they always seem to be up when I check them. Not sure what could be causing this discrepancy, but they don't seem to ever be down whenever I try to access them.
Iirc, Nightstalkers aren't on the model release schedule.
I'd still love to see them get official models though, because I legitimately want to support this company more than I do currently, but I don't have anything that I need to buy from them.
Is it possible to do well in any scenario with an all-shamblers army
(for all regular units, not heroes, etc, obviously).
I kind of just want a giant skeleton swarm kitbashed from Mantic, WGF, GW, Shieldwolf, etc every manufacturer all together.
I kind of also want to make skelecopters and field them as wraiths.
For undead? Oh hell yes. Your Shamblers can, with a little help, blitz up the battlefield with agility that elves would envy.
I'd not recommend it with any army that can't boost the speed of them though even then they are far from bad, just going to have issue with anything that involves chasing down fast units.
Is an all cavalry undead army viable?
>filename.pdf: Unsupported file type.
What the fuck 4chan
1500 pts Undead:
4xRegiments Revenant Cavalry
1xRegiment SoulReaverCavalry w/ blade of slash
1xMounted Vampire Lord
500 pts allied:
3xRegiments nimble, w/ Helm of confidence
1xMountedStandard w/ Kaba's grenades
I might do the nimble skeleton cavalry as Skelewheels
Yeah, all Cav is fine. You'll want to take advantage of those Reverent Kings having huge Surge values to get them into the sides of pike units. Liche Kings are also a very good idea.
How much surge would I need though?
Surge greater than 6 trades off into non-melee/non-inspiring. The versatility of Revenant Kings seems like the obligate choice with much more than 4 in 2000 pts.
3xRegiments Skeleton Cavalry (nimble), and one w/ confidence helm
Undead has medium and heavy cavalry
Empire of dust has light cavalry
Don't need as many light cavalry, so those get allied
How are the Soul Reavers? I really want to start an all-vampire
(and some skellies maybe..)themed army but I don't want to commit if they're hideous or a pain in the ass to work with.
Just get some gripping beast viking hirdmen and add skulls and crazy shields to them?
Shieldwolf miniatures also released some sort of barbarian plastics but I really dislike their static stances, maybe buy both and kitbash the shit out of them.
Expensive and easily routed if hit hard enough before they can get their Lifeleech(2). Their defense is good, but any decent list has at least CS(2) or Pierce(1). You'll NEED cheaper units to screen them. The obvious choice seems to be ghouls, since Vampire heroes have crappy surge and you don't want to block your own units.
An ALL vampires list I can see losing fewer units but losing overall due to the sheer cost of the units they lose.
Ghouls, got it. I'll try a bit of both but I'm burned out on painting horde armies at the moment (Tyanids come to mind) so I wanted something more elite feeling, but I'm not sold on Basilea for myself.
>something more elite feeling
Werewolves are an option too, but the problem with only-Elite lists is you won't have much nerve in the army overall. One good hit from a warmachine early on could blow away 200-300 pts.
Regardless, I hear an all-werewolf list does pretty well, so I'd imagine one with some Soul Reavers thrown in would do just fine if you keep at least one to screen the reavers.
Some anon talked about having tried an all werewolf list once. Supposedly it's actually really powerful, albeit an extreme glass cannon. If you start to snowball with it, then you can't be stopped, but if you start to lose at all, then you're fucked.
Saw someone use a Cthulhu Wars monster they painted up and mounted on a square base. I think it was the model in pic related.
Not really. KoW would be pretty good to test out with paper sheets though, because model count is less important than unit footprint. All you'd have to do is take some paper that's the correct size, write the name of your unit on it, and you'd be good to go.
I wouldn't even care if it was an unapologetic rip-off of these guys, WC3 or WoW incarnations (both please!)
Throw in some of Stun or similar designs, maybe for general types or big heavy elites.
Nerubians would be a cool inspiration for an army. Maybe mixed with a bit of Starship Troopers.
>someone remembers me!
Ordered it, looking forward to playing it. Should be mad fun.
>~6 hits (=9*2/3)
>Fly, CS(1), TC(1), Inspiring
>~6 hits (=12*1/2)
Now I want to make an all Wraiths list
Fielded as SKELECOPTERS
The all werewolf list crushed at objectives, but was pretty flimsy in the Kill scenario, IIRC
Wargames Factory miniatures FINALLY being sold on the Warlord Games store yet?
WGF has had their store shut down since at least christmas, and WLG STILL doesn't have the WGF stuff on their store.
I need WGF minis damn it.
I'm assembling a bunch of their japs right now.
And then reassembling half of them when the little flags fall off or when the sprinting ones just seperate from the base.
This is what I get for using superglue rather than plastic cement.
Pretty much everything is viable. Why do you ask?
Do you think Catachan/Cayman green washed with Devlan Mud/Umber wash would look alright for the clothing on skeletons?
Maybe some graveyard earth patches mixed in, main idea is to give it a subdued long buried look that won't take ages to paint on 100 guys.
Forces of the Abyss Archfiend model Mantic posted on their blog last night.
Way too late but look at the Darf Wars goblin riders. Good price too.
I like how Abyssal Archfiends can encompass all demon models based on a 50mm+ base. While the official Abyssal Archfiend model isn't as awful as some of their old ones, I feel that considering the price you may as well get a demon from Reaper. The quality is about the same and the price is much better.
Here's the Abyssal Champion model while we're at it.
Well the inspiring magical item is worth 20 points. Inspiring on a bigger unit is a bit better then on an individual, because it affects a larger area. Inspiring on everything in your army gets somewhat redundant, though.
There is nothing wrong with that. It just needs to look like a large magical well of some sort, and the mutalith's vortex will be fine until they finally tell us what it really should look like.
There were some quests in the redone zones that talked about the split between the Qiraji and the Silithid. That's also when they added the Ahn'Qiraj zone to the world map, although it was completely empty from what I remember.
I'd spend the rest of my points on a ranged weapon for an elohi probably
Implying women play this shit, and that you have a girlfriend
I thought about Julius for my list, but he just doesn't seem that great- the heal is okay but you want him in combat, very inspiring is wasted on a list with so much inspiring anyway, and the points just seem better used on a Horde of Elohi.
The beta rules are floating out there on their forums, but as >>45278209 said they seem to have pulled the models and rules from the store in preparation for the first kickstarter releases.
Last topic an anon mentioned talk of a version of Dungeon Saga for Warpath by Mantic. Anyone have a link to where that official discussion took place, or was it at a live event of some kind?
Thinking about getting the Elluvi Darkeye miniature from DeepWars to use as a Trident King. Are there any other miniatures for that role someone could recommend for consideration?
I want to use Ettins for Berserker Braves in my Ogres list- anyone know where to get decent ones? I have 2 of the reaper one, two from Descent, I'd like another different one so that I don't just have identically posed dudes everywhere.
Hey /kowg/, I was thinking about getting into this game. I was going to try WHFB but that kinda turned belly up...Anyways, Here's what I have planned to buy, and what I plan to use them as:
*A Mantic undead Army
*Wrath of Kings Goritisi
-1 Vampire Lord
Now, those two alone should bring me up to 910 pts alone, giving me plenty of space to play around with options and squeeze into 1000. Questions are: Is this a good start? Should I just go for 1500 pnts? Should I build the mantic box as is? Anything I should buy?
Pic related, Its my Vampire Lord's mini.
Found this there and it looks like a nice Trident King as well. Thanks anon.
How shitty is it?
Keeping 30 points open for some other magic item, ensorcelled armor is on the high paladin but I don't know how to add it on the list builder.
>Anything I should buy?
They just put out a new Elite Army box, (much more and slightly different contents from the old one), if you're interested in it.
For the same price for packaged deals, either you're looking at the Mega Army itself or the Army + Elite Army. The Mega Army would end up with 40 more infantry (20 skele, 20 zombie), and the Elite + Regular boxes would end up with another 15 cav (Regiment of Revenant, Troop of Soul Reaver) plus a troop of Wraiths.
There's some old boxes at LGS you might find of the old mega army sets and misc packages (eg Skeletons + catapult box, etc).
Honestly KoW is killing me because so many more builds are viable, I'm buying more than I need just so I can try new stuff.
Overall you've got bulk infantry covered. You'll need at least 1 hero unit per ~500 pts. You can play without Cavalry but you should consider it, where Werewolves are essentially high-end "light" cavalry (having nimble), Revenant cav are great value and solid all around, and Soul Reavers are better reserved for higher point games (1500+).
In a nutshell, you'll want in an army:
>Bulk infantry to take hits
>Fast and/or nimble units for objectives
>High def to wreck high att but no counter-def units
>High att but no counter-def to wreck high nerve but low def units
>Harassment capable hero
>Screening units for your softer stuff
but not all lists will have all of these
Remember to put in an order with your LGS for discounts, and/or scour ebay and such.
Here's a question for all of you:
If Mantic never existed, what would you all be playing right now instead?
Remember people are pissed at 9th because everybody had their own idea on how to fix WHFB so much so that we're all here instead. I figure even without KoW I still wouldn't be playing 9th, and overall it wouldn't have many more players than it does now.
>How shitty is it?
So many flying units... flying is good at shutting down shooting and then flanking anything. You'll be beaten when a guy blocks to control your landing options, then with hard hitting units for the 195-300 pts can beat Elohi when they're forced to take each other head on. Otherwise your list will piss people off and make for hilarious game reports.
Thanks for the reply. I originally only had more 3 man units of elohi but I beefed up the sisterhood to horde in order to stay in combat for an extended period of time. Is there something you would advise changing? I agree, this looks like a pretty fun army to field and if I do get it together I'll be sure to put up some WIP's as I'm making this using these 54mm miniatures as my elohi and theming the whole thing. Not sure what to do about the dragon though. Phoenix will be from GW's high elf line.
The Sisterhood horde isn't much harder hitting than the Elohi considering the Elohi are best to flank and divide the opposition. I think you'd be better served with [email protected] for the cost reduction and higher defense, which will hit well above their pt cost if your Elohi expose some flanks. Ideally a flying unit forces the target to choose facing the frontline or to expose their flank. The key though is that your exposed unit when initially charging in can take a hit, which in this case is not the Sisterhood. For a fixed pt cost, w/ a flier and a frontline unit, either it's elite/cheap or middling/middling. The Elohi are pretty good for fliers, therefore I'd make the anvil unit less special and this option is a bit more durable too.
I'd drop the Elohi a bit further to fit in at least a horde + 2 regiments of infantry though. Remember the Elohi are exposed when doing their work, all they have to do is redirect some cavalry to wipe you off the table.
Perry makes some killer [email protected], and other historical Sword&Board is perfect eg Roman legionaires.
>I'd drop the Elohi a bit further to ... you off the table.
Missing some of that paragraph for some reason.
Continuing: If the frontline engaging unit AND the flanking unit are both fliers, it's also a waste of ~50-100 pts on the frontline unit which didn't need flying. Remember you can't drop behind them and charge on the same turn, there has to be two units to flank and the one coming from the front doesn't have to fly, cavalry is about as fast if you really want to have the battle close to the opponent's side.
I'd just get it from here. Probably a recast of the original but if the quality is good..
So you're suggesting something along the lines of this? Do you think it's necessary to have ensorcelled armor on the high paladin? I'm pretty short on inspiration for my horde as well as I imagine it's a bad idea to rely on the elohi for the job. Should the elohi be dropped even farther to only a horde and regiment?
Oddly around here people who were playing Fantasy and didn't go to Kings of War have taken up Infinity. The only thing I really see that it has in common with Fantasy is that both have complicated rule sets, so I can't really explain why this has happened.
Honestly Anon, go with the all-flying list if you really want to. It would be pretty fun. Otherwise that list needs phalanx somewhere. Ideally you only present a phalanx for their cav to charge or otherwise you use phalanx to encourage them to take a different target.
If you go all flying though, consider the Elohi hordes to be the front-engagement as they have a larger footprint which is harder to land and are tougher overall.
Otherwise just know you need enough "worthless" (eg militia mob meatshield) separate units to engage the enemy's units to make flying units really shine. Otherwise if you've got 6 or fewer super expensive units on the board in a 2000 pt game... an army with lots of units will crush you like a tidal wave or just chase you around the board.
Personally I only recommend it for Individuals (can't be flanked, making De 6 invaluable), and anvils that need the extra. A monster/hero is neither and is easily flanked with such a small/square footprint which quickly negates the extra defense, he's better served being nestled in with other units for support/cover.
Pretty sure you were going with Legionaire miniatures? Sounds like it should look pretty cool, some good options for the sword & board.
I was going to get into Infinity but the closer LGS is all Warmahordes and one of them convinced my brother to buy his unpainted Khador army for my birthday. I'd only just kind of expressed interest in the game. I haven't even made a list of all the stuff in the box. Not lack of interest fully, just less interest than other things. Kind of 50/50 feeling it's a sad waste or I'm the sad waste.
I actually wouldn't mind playing something Iron Kingdoms related, but the problem is that the only LGS nearby that has a Warmahordes community is such that they only play about once a quarter and that is in a very competitive double elimination tournament. Not exactly getting a lot of play time for the time and money I'd need to invest and it seems like a game where if you're playing cutthroat competitively you've got limited options on what kind of lists you can bring.
I am really interested in this new warcaster-less variant that is coming out though, just as I would be in the regular game, there just isn't the community around here that Infinity or Kings of War has.
Didn't really see many large units, but they got some really nice pieces for heroes and monsters for sure.
Song of Blades and heroes for fantasy and perhaps Warmahordes (I really like the pigs) plus some historicals like Hail Caesar and perhaps I would try Warthrones from Avatars of War.
I don't know man it just doesn't seem like a very good list. I'm thinking of what my opponent would bring and if it's something like hordes of heavy cav and elite infantry I'm just fucked.
>hordes of heavy cav and elite infantry I'm just fucked
Nah you'll crush hordes (can fit more attackers in charge) and your Elohi are best served flanking expensive units. You're fucked if you go against a lot of <100 pt units. You've got no shooting to pick off chaff, and a troop-heavy army would just bog you down as the flanking tables would turn against you. You've only got 6 turns to work with, can't be everywhere at once, and something will just be there to flank you.
Drop Spearmen into regiments, it's generally ideal. Minimum Nerve to generally survive first impact, but can be in two places at once. Spearmen hordes look tempting for the Att bonus over regular infantry, but sometimes the pts are better spent elsewhere. The point of infantry is just to engage and survive long enough for flying units to do their job.
Oh okay that all makes sense. Do I need an inspiring caddy or should I drop it for magic items?
You'll be engaging so fast you might not need ranged units, and you still have two breath 12" units.
Crossbows just depends. Bows have the option of the tradeoff to move and shoot at -1 Ra, crossbows don't have the option, but it usually nullifies anything but high end bow units anyway. So then assuming you plan to not move when shooting, the piercing will always do better against De 4+ and higher. You put enough buffs on bows though and they can be the centerpiece of an army, crossbows you don't have to dick around with that. Overall it's a pick your poison. Anything fast enough, an individual included, is enough to shut down even a horde of ranged units anyway. Warmachines are still an option too.
I'm not sure about the magic items loadout but I wanted to try a magic-heavy undead army
Another good hero model for a Trident Realms army from DeepWars.
3 breath weapons, one from the dragon and two from the phoenix. Samacris also has two ranged spells.
I figure it's not a great idea to take xbows because I want a list that has a definitive purpose. Much like if I were to add a unit of paladin knights it would just take away from what my central force is meant to do. I'll have to see the sweet spot for number of throw away infrantry. I haven't really looked into the Basilean warmachine but I imagine it's very run of the mill and unspectacular
them swords... how they are holdign them... this is too much for my autism