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PC in a game I'm running wants to carry...
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PC in a game I'm running wants to carry a swordcane. Would that be dickish of me to make the weapon as shitty in the game as it is in real life? I mean, it's practically barely a weapon at all. It's a gimmick. It was a gimmick even back when swords were a thing. It's all but useless even for fencing, much less any serious combat. It's an 18th century gentleman's equivalent of the penis compensatory shotgun.

Should it use the rules for an improvised weapon? Give it a chance of breakage? Very low damage? Attack penalties?

What's your view?
>>
I remember the time the DM let a player have a cane bazooka. The principle is the same pretty much.
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>>45106309
As a dm, I always think like the following
It's a world where magic, orcs, trolls, ogres, dragons and such exist, so why the fuck not?
Don't punish the stupid, congratulate the smart
>>
Depends on the setting and tone of the game.
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>Should it use the rules for an improvised weapon? Give it a chance of breakage? Very low damage? Attack penalties?

Attack penalties maybe, the others no. It may be a shitty sword, but it's still a sword. And that's assuming that the system you're using doesn't already have rules for swordcanes, in which case you should just use those and stop being autistic.
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>>45106348
GURPS actually gives cane swords a pretty high chance of breaking. Which IS realistic. Those things are REALLY fragile. They were barely meant to be drawn from the "scabbard", much less used to stab anyone.
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That sort of thing really depends on the sort of swordcane, it's not like it's impossible to make a proper sword with a good grip, a round pommel, and then put a circular sheath on it, it would just produce a very thick cane. Though if your system has rules for them, just use that, otherwise maybe lower damage if it's a lighter sword, and possibly attack penalties. Though you may want to balance it against it's ability to be hidden as well, make it a more effective weapon when easier to identify as a swordcane, and less effective as a weapon when easier to hide.
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>>45106309
No. It's a legit weapon.

If you do want to be mean, have him regularly be subject to spot checks and so forth because sword canes WERE the weapons of assassins and other unsavory sorts, so carrying a swordcane, if recognized as one, would be a redflag to everyone "this guy's up to some dirty business, do his companions know?"

>>45106345
there's this too.

>>45106348
depending on the type of sword cane, it wouldn't be any better or worse than just using a rapier, no?

It's like saying a straight-edged shirasaya type katana should suffer penalties because it doesn't obviously look like a sword.

If absolutely you must penalize, a sword cane probably would not gain full benefits of something like a total defense stance due to lacking cross-guards and such.
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You guys obviously haven't seen any cold steel videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL0Y-GhU2Io
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>>45106397
That's the kind of YouTube video that ends up with people believing katanas can slice tanks in half and Desert Eagles can shoot through buildings.
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Your player probably imagines it being used like one of those fencing style swords you see in movies. Whether it's realistic or not this usually translates in-game as a finesse weapon like a rapier. A cane sword could be useful as a concealed weapon in some circumstances like a dagger too. Make it about as powerful as that if you don't feel like it would match up to something like a rapier.
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>>45106386
>depending on the type of sword cane, it wouldn't be any better or worse than just using a rapier, no?
It most likely WOULD, in fact, be worse than just using a rapier. And it's an easily concealable, full-length sword. It's entirely fair to give it some penalties... just not so much that having a concealed dagger up your sleeve would generally be the better option even where you could reasonable have your cane with you.
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Bit of trivia:

You guys saw that Sherlock Holmes movie with Robert Downey Junior, right? The one where Jude Law plays Watson and swings his sword cane around a bunch? Like when he slices down a noose in one stroke and shit?

Yeah, I have the exact same sword-cane they used as a prop in the movie. I'm sure they replaced the blade, but I own an identical copy that I got in my grandpa's estate junk. And let me tell you, that thing is SHIT.

Imagine trying to swing an iron rebar as a sword: All the weight is in the blade, and there's absolutely nothing to balance it at the end of the grip, meaning that just trying to swing with it throws the whole thing completely out of wack and there's no way to keep it stable mid-swing, because there's just no weight anywhere but the blade.

The only way a sword-cane would possibly be any use is if there was like, multiple pounds worth of metal weight hidden in the handle like a pommel. Without it, it's just an unbalanced bar of metal.
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>>45106439

>>45106397
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>>45106309
I'd just go with low damage, probably equivalent to a dagger (so 1d4 in d&d). Maybe with a restriction that you can't add strength to damage.
Makes sense since it's got a similar blade size to a stiletto so similar injury and similar damage. It also means someone who's shit or even average doesn't stand chance against someone with a real weapon but if you're high-level enough you can be appropriately badass and lethal with it.
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>>45106439
>sword
>multiple pounds of metal in the pommel
You do realize that most one-handed swords only weight a few pounds, right?
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>>45106309
Why would you penalize a weapon that's already weaker and more expensive than most of the other one-handed martial weapons? I mean, by taking the sword cane, the player is punishing himself.
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>>45106309
If the system you're playing already has stats for them you fucking pathfag then yes, it would be a dick move.

Do it anyway.
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>>45106448
Finessable obviously and if adamantine then I'd remove the strength restriction.
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>>45106442
I'm not saying it's not possible to make, it certainly is. I'm just telling you that I own one, and it's not one of these modern things where engineers figured out how to make this shit barely practical. As this piece exists (the one I have, not the Cold Steel one), it's a piece of shit.

>>45106459
See pic related. There's only room for one hand on it, and I promise you, there is no weight in the pommel at all, not remotely enough to balance the blade.
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>>45106397
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w85mkLwICE
you can buy a cold steel baseball bat?
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>>45106487
Yes, and you can buy a slightly smaller cold steel bat.
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>>45106309

What >>45106345 said is right, you're basically just looking to punish someone for wanting to play out a different fantasy from the one you find cool since there's no logical reason why it couldn't be a perfectly legitimate weapon in-universe. That's a really venomous attitude to bring in to a game, especially as the DM. You're there to facilitate the collective enjoyment of the group and "Tom's weapon has penalties and might randomly shatter because I think it's dumb" is basically the exact opposite of that.

What system are you running? Unless it's something with unusually detailed weapon rules my advice would be to just pick an existing weapon (something like a longsword or equivalent that you're both happy with) and give it those stats. A special snowflake item doesn't always need special snowflake stats, sometimes a blade can just be a blade. Rely on descriptions and character abilities to differentiate their combat style.
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>>45106366
>>45106309

I handled triangular bladed cane swords, they really didn't looked fragile at all, in fact they were thicker than some swords. Sure, you won't cut anything with them, but a stab from them will be plenty deadly. Smallswords look funny too, they are still extremely deadly if you get stuck anywhere in the upper torso.
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>>45106309
If you're talking about D&D, literally everything about it's weapons and armor is already so massively wrong, incorrect, or poorly represented that if you make the swordcane a bad weapon because it WAS one then it's actually less realistic and incongruous then orcs and hobgoblins, who at least fit in a ridiculous fantasy setting where weapons and armor don't do what they're supposed to do.

Just make it either a rapier or short sword and be done with it.
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>>45106739
This.
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>>45106309
> it's a gimmick

Then what's your problem OP? Just let the player have a short sword which he describes as looking like a wicked cane.

If he's not trying exploited as it as an concealed weapon or anything you really should let him visualises the character as he wants.
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>>45106347
>>45106739
>>45106998
/thread
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>>45106309
What this guy says >>45106739
Maybe with a -1 somewhere in exchange for concealable advantage.

Or require to be masterwork.
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>>45106309
>His system does not have stats for cane bolters and cane swords
Bautista, please, laugh at these simpletons for me.
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>>45106309

Depends on the game and the setting.
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If you do make it a bad weapon. Id give my players 1d6 but reduce damage by 1 after roll, or, reduce total modifier damage by 1. Or a cap on how much bonus damage can be applied through the sword.Not allowing it to hit 0. So 1d6 + (strmod) is automatically 1d6 + (strmod =<3). Then add in a quest to make a MAGICCANESWORD that isnt limited.
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>>45106309
>Would that be dickish of me to make the weapon as shitty in the game as it is in real life?

Yes.

Some good responses below, but they need some context. First, the one anon found in pappy's attic isn't representative of all swordcanes. Second, as >>45106739 points out, most games aren't grityt realism about any melee weapons, so why suddenly drag in realism for this particular choice?

GURPS has rules for this in Martial Arts. It's essentially a smallsword with no guard.

Now, as for quality. Historically, many were quite good as weapons. The spanish have a version that's particularly excellent. However, there were enormous numbers made that were made as fashion accessories, at a time when a sword was a silly but fun anachronism for a gentleman. Those really were shit because they were never intended to be really used in a fight. Not all genuine antiques are high quality.

I'd treat it as a smallsword with no bonus on parries (lacking hand protection), assuming your system grants bonuses in the first place. The cane, if reinforced, can be used as a baton in the off hand for parrying (and work as a baton if not drawn, too).

Vs opponents armed and armored for war in a D&D world, the PC will suffer less reach and lower damage. That's penalty enough.

In a victorian setting, it'll be formidable because you'll be up against people with inferior weapons like knives and fists. And pistols, of course, which kind of puts paid to it then, too.

I'd let him conceal vs a Spot check, but unless there's a magical or trick catch on it, no bonus vs a Search, at least in victorian times when these were comparatively common. A trick catch might take a standard action to draw.

A weapon can be "not as good as dedicated swords" without being the shit weapons of all time. A penalty is unnecessary when just giving it a lower bonus than a rapier will scare off 95% of players.

The real question is, "are these found in your setting"?
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>>45106309
Its a hand weapon, OP. Maybe even give it an advantage on surprise rounds or on the first round of combat if the opponent doesn't spot it.
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>>45108064

Found it. From GURPS martial arts:

>Makhila - Basque
>A gorgeous metal-shod cane. The heavy handgrip unscrews to reveal a spearhead. Treat as a LIGHT CLUB if capped, a JAVELIN if uncapped. This presentation-quality disguised weapon costs $300, weights 2.5 lbs.

GURPS prices are in 2004 US dollars, so the actual price will be higher. Googling around, apparently the catch is secure enough that many people who own these antiques don't realize that there's a spear inside. Obviously rust and lack of maintenance will take their toll, but the pics I saw really were beautiful.

You can use the same rules to construct a swordcane, starting with a smallsword (short rapier used in victorian times).
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>>45106309

It's purpose is not to go against actual swords in combat, you dickweed. A sword cane is meant as a concealed last defense or as an assassin's weapon where you stab a motherfucker when he's not expecting it.

It's not meant to go against a broadsword. How much of a stupid cunt can you be.
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>>45108193
Depends on the setting amigo
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Would it be possible to hide an entire rapier inside a cane?

And what kind of penalties would pic related have? I imagine it would be easier to break than a similar weapon, but how lighter would it have to be?
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>>45106334
So you were playing this guy?
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>>45108402
If you want a cane that is over three feet long sure.
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>>45106309
It's a longsword-sized shortsword with a bonus to concealment.
1d6 damage x2 crit, +2 sleight of hand for purposes of concealment.
There, a shitty but still usable holdout weapon.
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>>45108485
I'm six feet tall, so that's not that hard.
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>>45108402
The blade could probably work, if you use enough cane. Even for a rather slender rapier we're probably talking 20mm blade width at the widest. Length will be Blade length has been covered.

The hilt is worse. We can probably get a pommel into there, but the guard just ain't happening. At that point I'm not so sure if it deserves to be called a rapier nay more, and should it be pitted against another sword or so the lack of hand protection and binding ability can easily end up being quite a bother.

On the plus side, as long as it's made sufficiently sturdy the size of it all will probably make it a reasonably useful club.
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>>45108698

But the guard point is kinda moot, as the sword cane was meant to be used mostly against unarmed or knife/dagger wielding opponents.
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>>45106474
Shit, if you are playing PF and using the stats there then the weapon's pretty shitty already. I mean, as far as damage, crit stuff and finesse goes, it's basically the equivalent of a light mace, except your going from simple to martial and paying 40gp for the ability to hide it, or if you compare it to things similar to it, it's basically a rapier but with the only reason you use a rapier (crit range) stripped out.

Seriously OP, if you're playing PF there's no need to nerf the weapon, they've done that for you.
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>>45106309
Show him this. Problem solved.
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>>45108402

No because a typical rapier is too long. You could make some solution, but it won't be convincing as a concealment. A staff might work better... but then there's the hilt.

You could say "short rapier" to make the disguise convincing. But then you've just reinvented the smallsword. Which has its own virtues.
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>>45106407
>ends up with people believing katanas can slice tanks in half and Desert Eagles can shoot through buildings.
>implying they can't
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>>45107260
>cane bolters
Are you swinging a baseball bat around? Aren't bolt shells like 0.75 cal?
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I'd slap my dick across my keyboard during a roll20 on camera if my players wanted to use a hidden weapon in an encounter instead of a two handled broadsword katana whip chain of lightning fury.
if anything you should reward him for using it in situation where people would be caught off guard by him having the weapon if he does not look like a blatant combatant

>>45108402
you can always get a 'walking stick' or 'shepards crook' and have it as long as you want, but the longer you make it the longer the length of the draw would be, often making it pointless
a much more suitable hidden weapon would be like pic related. I think it was the romans who were known to often have kept a dagger in their belt for in sword fights, where they'd make an offhand attack and stab them in the kidney

the stupid design of that folding sword thing, I'd make anyone using it roll to not cut themselves while pulling it out christ
it wouldnt be any lighter based on the design, it would be heavier, because the mechanical parts to hold it together would be about as heavy as a blade the same length
just use a box cutter or something if you want a light concealable, overall bad weapon that would require modern materials
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>>45108402
Dishonored is too underrated
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>>45109283
It's not supposed to be heavier, it's supposed to make sure you don't accidentally stab yourself in the kidneys if you trigger the spring mechanism.
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>>45106513
>you're basically just looking to punish someone for wanting to play out a different fantasy from the one you find cool since there's no logical reason why it couldn't be a perfectly legitimate weapon in-universe. That's a really venomous attitude to bring in to a game

I'm actually fine with outright banning it as being inappropriate to the setting.

What pisses me off are passive aggressive GMs who decide to load up on bonuses and surprise drawbacks that make no sense except that the GM wants to punish the player for not making decisions he wants them to make.

If it doesn't fit the setting, ban it. Don't fuck around with "um, ok. no, no I'm ok with it, but there will be downsides." That attitude doesn't do anyone any good.
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>>45106397
>"You can't hide from this heavy-duty sword cane"
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>>45109371
>it's not supposed to be heavier
well it would be, for the reasons I just said
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>>45108658
So, are you supposed to stab the guy with it, then start pulling the trigger? Because I'm not seeing that gun working at a ranger greater than 2 feet.
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>>45109394
Whoops. It's not supposed to be lighter, it's supposed to PREVENT yourself cutting your hand open.

To be fair the guy twirling it is acting like a faggot and no-one else with those swords does the twirly thing, they just use both hands.
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>>45108658
Stupid weapon. Brass knuckles are illegal in quite a lot of countries, so you might as well carry a knife/gun
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>>45106309
it's just a concealed weapon. Sword cane's aren't actually that shitty in real life, only the normal ones you buy are because -they are fake swords-.

Putting a real sword in a cane sheath wouldn't change how good of a weapon it was.
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>>45109361
Agreed
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>>45109476
>"An Apache revolver is a handgun which incorporates multiple other weapons, made notorious by the French underworld figures of the early 1900s known as Les Apaches."
Modern "sensibilities" doesn't apply to it
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>>45106309
If you are playing any version of D&D from 3.0 forward, there are rules for this here: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/modern/smack/weapons.html

You could probably impose a -2 penalty to save vs sunder if so inclined, but sundering PC weapons is a bit of a dick move.
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>>45106309
It is a convenient way of self defence. I carry a swordcane, for your information. Why? Because it is a super effective way to scare off Budapest gypsies trying to rob you 3v1 with a small spring knife on one of them. I pulled my blade out only oncve in such a situation. Dirty apes ran like they saw the devil.

I was ready to kill one of them if they advanced. No smartphone robbery is worth that to anyone.

Also, we have no firearms here. I would just carry a small concealed handgun if i could. One with a tinkered barrel for sure.
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>>45109910
My point being, make it a standard weapon, no better, but give it a surprise modifier to initiative due to the surprise factor.
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>>45109651
>6.87 mb
m8
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>>45109948
Better than a compressed .jpg thumbnail
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>>45108208

No, it really doesn't, pal.
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>>45109722

And I suppose if someone's carrying a knife, revolver, and brass knuckles around, they're not in the business of this so-called "legality."
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>>45106309
Okay, so here's my take on it, though it sort of deviates here. The sword cane is perfectly valid - if it fits the atmosphere and nature of your game.

The sword cane is the mark of political intrigue games, in my opinion. If everyone is wearing fine clothes, suits and such, then the cane sword is completely viable, as everyone else will probably have concealed weapons too - boot daggers, hat dagger, sleeve dagger, belt dagger, double dagger, glasses dagger, cold steel scorpion dagger, something that's not a dagger - you name it.

Now, if this is a dungeon crawl, or a combat intensive campaign, then look at the sword cane - and the character. Is he wearing a suit while crawling through the sewers fighting goblins? Is he wearing a top hat while the barbarian is wearing an iron helm? If so, I think you have conflicting interests in the game. Chances are a noble would be able to carry a sword around unquestioned, so a sword cane makes little sense.
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>>45110068
Or maybe the game falls somewhere between twose two extremes, and rather than bitching about not being able to take his greatsword with him when going to a ball/meet the king/etc. he just wants the swordcane to use on those occasions.
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>>45106631
You saying GURPS' weapons stats are wrong, BLASPHEMER?
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>>45109361
It really is, hopefully the sequel will gain more traction with the community.
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>>45108064
>
I'd treat it as a smallsword with no bonus on parries (lacking hand protection), assuming your system grants bonuses in the first place. The cane, if reinforced, can be used as a baton in the off hand for parrying (and work as a baton if not drawn, too).

That used to be the case in World of Darkness. One of the advantages of swordcanes was you could practically switch between causing lethal or bashing damage on the fly. They were actually REALLY good weapons in WoD, maybe because they're so iconic for the type of character many WoD players would play.

Then came God-Machine Chronicles' combat system, and all weapons are always lethal all the time.
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>>45106309
My grandfather always walks with one, but he's kind of a nutcase. Walks around with a pistol, too. Has a bunch at home. And in his car. And rifles everywhere. And an entire closet filled with ornate antique pistols (which don't worry anybody since they probably don't work) and ornate Arabian daggers and swords (which are plenty sharp).

And I don't even live in a country where most of this shit is legal. He's just the kind of guy who's rich and connected enough (and bad tempered, and kind of senile enough) that the police doesn't say anything so long as he doesn't kill anybody.

He hasn't killed anybody in a long time. And back when he did it was still sort of legal because they weren't white and he claimed they were stealing sheep (which should tell you a lot about the place we live in).

The family's kind of worried he's going to kill somebody over a parking spot at some point and end up in prison, but so far he's been good. Now we just need to convince him to put on his glasses while driving.
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>>45110419
9/10 would play your grandfather in a campaign
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>>45110419
>which should tell you a lot about the place we live in
New Zealand?
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>>45110419
The antique Arabian daggers means he's either from an Arabian country himself, or that, being old, he's from a former British empire country which used to control somewhere int he Middle East where he was stationed as a soldier, maybe confiscating local weapons. The sheep implies he lives somewhere rural, which would fit him being Middle Eastern himself, but I don't know about weapons laws there and there's the part about him killing someone and it was legal because they weren't white...

Wales? Somewhere very remote in England?
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>>45110419
Is your grandfather old man Henderson?
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>>45106309
Do quarterstaffs in your campaign have a chance of breaking? Does any wooden weapon? If not, then no. Just make it do slightly more damage than melee, make it require some sort of training, and give it a slightly broader chance to crit because it's a fine weapon.
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>>45106309
>Would that be dickish of me to make the weapon as shitty in the game as it is in real life?
Would you enjoy it if the person running a game you were a player in told you that your character's favored weapon now does 1d2 damage, a -5 attack penalty, and a 20% chance of breaking every time you swing it, and a -10 to charisma rolls because everyone thinks you look like a tosser when holding it?
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>>45111115
In his defense, it's hard not to look like a tosser while wielding a swordcane.
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>>45109651
>dishonored 2 involve the princess instead of Billie Lurk or Daud
There are no words to describe how incredibly hard this ball was dropped.
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>>45106397
I like how he never hits what he was initially aiming for.
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>>45111929
I hope she finally gets to see pirates in Dishonored 2
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>>45111115
i wouldn't favor ridiculous and shitty weapons
that is the kind of game that i like to play, yes
except for the -10 charisma thing because that's just more stupid immersion breaking shit
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>>45106309
If you are playing 3.5e, then there was a Cityscape(?) Wizard's Web Enhancement that actually had Swordcanes and Weighted Cloaks which had the same stats as a Rapier and Flail, respectively. It was a DC 20 check to find out that they were hidden weapons and DC 25 for the masterwork versions. Dunno if this answers your question or not.
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>>45110419
Was he Welsh?
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>>45111727
this
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>>45106309
>Would that be dickish of me to make the weapon as shitty in the game as it is in real life?
It depends entirely on the player's intended use of it.
If he just wants a disguised sword or just thinks it would be neat, then it's a normal sword cane and would be given penalties like mentioned in this thread already.
No problem.
If the player doesn't like it, point out your consistent level of realism.

But if the player wants to be "Sword Cane Guy" and honestly wants to focus on this, take proficiencies in it or whatever, then making it shitty would be a dick move.

If a player's character is centered on a piece of equipment, then don't make that equipment shit.
If a masterwork sword cane artifact would be only slightly better your average sword, then do your best to give him that.
Or at least give him a great one with a path towards a perfect one.
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>>45113165
>If a player's character is centered on a piece of equipment, then don't make that equipment shit.
If a player's character is centered on a piece of equipment, it's not a very good player's character. You bet your ass I'd ban someone from making a character dedicated entirely to looking cool using a single piece of gimmick equipment he just saw in an anime.
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>>45113198
>If a player's character is centered on a piece of equipment, it's not a very good player's character.
Centered on does not mean limited to, but your point is valid.
>You bet your ass I'd ban someone from making a character dedicated entirely to looking cool using a single piece of gimmick equipment he just saw in an anime.
My childhood would like to have a word with you.
Pic related.
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>>45113308
I'll forgive you if, as a (very) young child, you saw Indiana Jones and thought it was a character DEDICATED to looking cool using a bullwhip. If you still think that, an adult needs to have a word with you.
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>>45106309
I'd say that a non magical sword cane is essentially rapier that has the following special qualities:

Fragile: has half hardness and hp of a normal rapier.

Concealable: when sheathed, it functions as a hidden weapon and imposes a -4 penalty on an enemy's spot check to notice the concealed sword. Enemies who dont actively search the wielder dont notice the weapon at all.

Small blade: -1 weapon damage.

Masterwork sword canes do not suffer a damage penalty and impose a -8 penalty on enemy spot checks.

Magical sword canes are not fragile. They cost an extra 25 gp to construct or an extra 50 gp to purchase because they must be constructed to incorporate a thin sheet of lead.
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>>45113344
I never actually thought he was dedicated to that, but it was what made him stand out. (and was cool)
Describing the other, non-archeologist, aspects of Indy make it hard to separate him from other action characters.
There is a reason the hat and whip are his signatures.
>>
>>45113505
You said it yourself, his defining aspect isn't "Bullwhip User", it's "Archaeologist" (or rather, "Adventurer Archaeologist"). The "Hat and Bullwhip" are just another character aspect he invokes for rerolls.
>>
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Does th weapon transform between a bladed cane and a whip saw?
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>>45110419
Going to guess South Africa
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>>45110214

Where does that post contradict the rules in GURPS?
>>
>>45114469
I'm pretty sure that even in South Africa it was never LEGAL to murder a black person (if only because you'd be damaging somebody's property).
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>>45114681
It may not have been legal, but good luck getting the government to interfere on behalf of the black dude.
>>
>>45114469
>>45115742
>>45114681
The "claim they were stealing sheep" makes it pretty clear it's South Africa.
>>
>>45115808
Why would an old South African have a collection of Arabian blades?
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>>45115915
They're cool?
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>>45106386
Rapiers are huge. Longer than a longsword and weigh about as much. A sword cane would be shittier than a smallsword.

I say just go "counts as dagger" or whatever your game system equivalent is.
>>
>>45113887
If you're going to do a bladed cane, I'd do it like bloodborne did, actually. Not transforming into a whip, just not having a sheath and being a kinda-sharp bludgeon with a point. I don't think you could actually make the whip work correctly.
>>
>>45115953
Have you SEEN the weapons African natives make? Everything that isn't either a spear or a club is some ridiculous awesome multiple bladed contraption.
>>
>>45115978

Smallswords aren't necessarily shitty. They reflect a change in fencing style. Vs a very long rapier they're competitive. And that was the dominant civilian sword by that point.
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>>45112504
>i wouldn't favor ridiculous and shitty weapons
I meant in the sense of "Hey, anon. You know that weapon your class/build/whatever uses? I don't like that weapon, so it now does piss-poor damage."
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