How do Eldar compare mentally/physically with humans? I know they are a bit taller, but how strong are they compared to humans? How tough are they? Are they all math savants?
Also, if you say they move faster than light, please an hero.
Pretty sure they move faster than light.
Real talk, though. Physically Eldar are superior to normal humans in speed, Agility and strength, but are not as strong as Space Marines. Intelligence wise, they all have a certain degree of precognition that allows them to see the future, especially in their Seers. This is sometimes skewed or from some other perspective, so visions are not always reliable. Mentally they're not too different aside, but they simply have a much longer time to learn things like math, science, etc
I have found that fantasy elves vary quite a bit. In Tolkienic fantasy they are practically the same as eldar. In other fantasies they are more pixie-like and generally smaller and weaker than humans.
A lot of the stuff they can do depends on who's writing them, but one thing that seems to stay consistent is that Eldar (at least the soldiers) are FAST. Fast to the point that they start to blur in the vision of normal humans.
Also, how much of a canon violation is this?
Eldar have faster metabolism, faster reflexes and sharper senses than a human. They move in a way that to human appears unnaturally graceful, and can move at speed that is difficult for a naked eye to follow. While they appear less muscled than humans they're actually about as strong, although probably lack the endurance, due to having tightly bunched muscle fibers that are well suited for explosive release of energy.
Mentally Eldar feel emotions far more intensely than humans, which often causes them to bounce from one emotional extreme to other. The tendency to emotional extremes and a psyche prone to obsession that resulted from it is what led to the Fall, as their society became obsessed with finding new heights of sensation and debauchery and their collective emotions were strong enough to spontaneously manifest a new Chaos God. Craftworld Eldar invented the path system to allow them to control their emotions and prevent themselves from repeating the Fall, byt Dark Eldar still keep going like before the Fall.
>byt Dark Eldar still keep going like before the Fall
Not quite. Vect's coup forced a very important cultural change upon Commoragh which, while on the face of things didn't change much, means they're not going to accidentally create a second Fall. The ancient Eldar were devoted completely and utterly to hedonistic indulgence, but Commorite society is so ruthlessly, murderously brutal that most Dark Eldar who do the same will find themselves killed and replaced by a more ambitious underling. Dark Eldar might embrace their passions in a way that Craftworld Eldar do, but the pursuit of them doesn't define their society. The obsessive, never-ending drive to claim power (and the safety it provides) does.
Superior in pretty much every conceivable way.
Eldar are an artifically created species taht was pretty much engineered to be "perfect", so they probably have ways to combat the effect of free oxygen radicals (the formation of which is the main reason slower metabolism translates to living longer, as the free radicals damage cells and are produced as ametabolic byproduct).
Eldar biology is weird, anyway. Everybody remembers Xenology for the "erogenous ears" and and "must have sex during pregnancy to succesfully complete it" parts, but it has a whole bunch of interesting stuff. Like, apparently Eldar bonus are made from a resin-like material that appears to ahve solidified from liquid, they have free-roaming lymph glands and even the Magos Biologis couldn't figure out how their digestive system is supposed to work (it seemingly lacks any way to move material through their intestines, for one thing).
>creating a tranny chaos god
>bipolar disorder civilisation
>broken and scattered people after just one chaos god ripped them a new one
>all manly strong chaos gods, who require strength, wits and endurance
>could whimpy space faggots create a god of power, wisdom and stamina?
>I don't think so
>After creating three source gods and imprisoning a ctan humanity went on to create a galactic empire
>Look at me
>Then on your craftworld
>Then at me again
>I'm on a Throne
>not noticeably stronger
You have to be stronger in order to be faster.
In order to run to the speed of sound, if you weigh as much as a human, and run like a human, if you need to be 5000 times stronger to have the same acceleration curve.
Even if you use longer to accelerate, like 4 seconds, you still need to be almost 2000 times stronger.
The same with stopping, and all that. Now the Eldar have psionic super power armor. Which helps, but beneath that they would still be in the 100 range stronger.
Inb4 some autists forgets what linear scaling is, and how little 100 times stronger is
11th century Europe did mutha fuka
Not that anon>>45062049
Since y'all already cleared up half-eldar guy isn't canon anymore and with the weird pregnancy thing >>45066192 brought up I got another question:
Could there be an Eldar child raised by humans? I'd like an Eldar psyker for the henchmen of my Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and at first was thinking about making him half-eldar.
Since that's out of the question full eldar is the next best thing, but how to tie him to imperial service?
A fullgrown seer would hardly join a henchmen band and would be too powerful to be represented by a lvl1 psyker with human stats anyway
>Eldar psyker for the henchmen of my Ordo Xenos Inquisitor
On a scale of abbaddon to horus, how heretical are you being?
>....Both types strike by rapidly unfolding and swinging their raptorial claws at the prey....
>....In smashers, these two weapons are employed with blinding quickness....
>....with an acceleration of 10,400 g(102,000 m/s2)
Ghost shrimps are even further down the scale. At human scale, that would be what... a 500 000x increase.
Well, I can't be that bad, seeing how space orang-utans are right there in the codex and my dear colleagues from the Ordo Malleus get Daemon Hosts, Daemon Blades, Hellrifles that shoot Daemon bullets...
but to answer your question: I'm Magnus level heretical, I did nothing wrong!
Not that anon, but human-Eldar hybrids are a thing in Commorragh. Problem is that they are treated as mongrels and slaves, or as meatshields that are send to their deaths and have the DEldar laugh at them for that.
You can do it so that your half-Eldar henchman was found as a baby on a badly damaged DEldar ship that was transporting slaves to Commorragh but something happened and it did not enter the webway. You killed the DEldar, but they did kill the slaves to spite you...except for one that they didn't kill in time and that's your potential half-Eldar henchman. And knowing that one of the parents was one of the DEldar on the ship, you can get the idea how it came into being.
Remember that planet purged by firenigga vulkan where Eldar and humans coexisted?
What of there were other such planets, possibly in uncharted spaces or beyond the reach of the Astronomican?
Try working from there - exodite words are a rough place, a cataclysm killed off a sizeable chunk of exoditville, parents of both races take some orphans under their wing.
Have a Rogue Trader visit the world and add one such specimen to his retinue because of reason, or disrupting DEldar slave raid and liberating captives, or something else you fancy.
Probably even the authors did mention something about this being a possibility.
DEldar are all but picky and will go and get their hands on everything that can be shagged by them.
Oh, I like that. I could see my inquisitor purging those heretical LoveCanBloomers but spare the little one(s) who can still be saved for the Emperor!
The henchman psyker would of course be heavily indoctrinated, to prevent heresy from happening. Better stick some tubes and shit up his brain too.
Source of half eldar existing in commoragh.
The only place where they would make any sort of sense is in the labs of the Haemonculi. Humans and the Eldar are two completely distinct species after all, so a babby being conceived between the two naturally makes about as much sense as humans and orks being able to reproduce.
Khorne and Nugle gained consciousness around that time, they were formed before that. And its not like humanity were the only species in the galaxy at that time. They just took a particular interest in humans.
Actually most of them do (or rather they are bred matrix- style, that's the tube born)
That's why the Trueborn are called Trueborn - cause they were actually born from real mommies and daddies.
Nah, more like most of them come out of tubes with fertilized eggs. Those who come out from the proper twat are those High-Born bratty snobs.
Replace rape with conceive. Then again DEldar women do not care what it is as long as it pleases them.
Most of them are grown in clone pods. Only the very, very rich Dark Eldar actually have children in the traditional sense, its just too difficult to try and keep a pregnant Dark Eldar female alive through the entire gestation period, and then have to nurse the child to adulthood with every rival of the parents trying their best to torture the little shitling to death to get at the parents.
Plus its much harder for Eldar to have successful pregnancies than it is for humans because ever since the destruction of their psntheon theirs been a shortage of souls strong enough to avoid just being devoured by slaanesh and the child being stillborn.
>Eldar move with a speed that is difficult for a naked eye to follow.
That seems ridiculous tbqh. You have to be moving fucking FAST to not be able to see it properly. Eldar aren't super l33t ninja. They might be better then humans all around but the most elite of humans, Adeptus Astartes, Inquisitors, Veteran Guardsmen, etc can all fight mostly equally with Eldars
Think of an orangutan.
That is your average mon-keigh.
Of course. While the difference is not to scale, they still are physically stronger than Eldar, while lacking in pretty much everything else.
>yfw we are the Eldar of our order
Adeptus Astartes is mobile artillery platforms.
Don't forget there is no mechanic to represent how many units a unit figure is in the tabletop, due differences in size skirmish and not wanting to give official numbers.
Outside of the fact a single guardsman might represent several hundred people. Or thousands.
Yes it does.
The wast majority of Deldar are conceived normally. It is just that the half born are taken out of the wombs of their mommies and then sped grown by the Haemonculi, whereas the Trueborn get to grow inside the mommy eldar the normal way.
The Eldar had a bigger, more secure Empire than Humans ever have. The Webway on its own is a more impressive feat than literally anything humanity has ever done.
I'm not saying they're vastly superior to humans in every way, but the Eldar empire was immense and powerful, with stability mankind could only dream of.
Also, as stated twice, humans didn't create any of the chaos gods; their creation is an amalgamation of ALL psychic bleed off from everyone. The only race to full-on birth their own god is, in fact, the Eldar, because their psychic capabilities vastly outstrip pretty much every other race by leaps and bounds. While, admittedly, individual human psykers reach levels of power that compare to, or even outstrip, the most powerful Eldar, they lack anything resembling the control or mastery of the warlocks and farseers.
They don't necessarily move so fast you can't properly see them, just fast enough that it would be difficult for your gaze to track them. Like you turn your head to where they were, but they've already sprinted somewhere else.
I too find squabbling retarded idiots hitting themselves with sticks. Interesting. Again they only gained consciousness around that time. They took interest in humans and a couple hundred more alien races.
While Birdbrain Mcnerdlord prepared himself cause he knew his solo rule is ending and was about to get his shit kicked in.
According to WFRPG 1st Ed., elves (eldars) are very superior to humans. They fight and shoot better. They are quicker, more intelligent, have more willpower and courage, are better leaders, etc. The only aspect where they are inferior to humans, is that they have one less hit point.
>While, admittedly, individual human psykers reach levels of power that compare to, or even outstrip, the most powerful Eldar, they lack anything resembling the control or mastery of the warlocks and farseers.
That's largely because the Eldar have to hold back, on account of the whole "avoiding the gaze of Slaanesh" thing. Going full retarded with their powers would invite certain death, so they generally use their powers in more subtle and controlled manner. Before the Fall you probably had Eldar psykers doing more impressive displays of psychic might, as they didn't have to worry about having their soul sucked out by Slaanesh.
Potentially? We have no canonical proof of this, though, but I seem to recall that we do have definite, explicit proof that the average psychic ability of the Eldar as a race is COMICALLY higher than humans, since just about any Eldar that wants to can take the path of the Warlock, if I recall correctly.
Fuck that was a horrible sentence.
Well despite that, humanity has been locked in several centuries of war so I don't think there is any time to produce culture and technological (non-weaponizable) advancements. I'm going out on a limb here and saying that the Eldar probably have had long times of peace to get to the place they are now in terms of tech and culture.
Yes, all Eldar are at least latent psykers. Much of their technology is psychically activated. Most likely they all have potential to become full-blown psykers with the correct training, considering there doesn't seem to be a particular requirements to becoming a Warlock and any Eldar stuck on the Path of Artisan eventually becomes a Bonesinger (who can shape wraithbone with their mind).
You're trying to act like Humans aren't the absolute focus of the majority of chaos. Sure there would be individual daemons and the like that are more interested in other xeno races, however the major players, like the gods themselves, almost solely focus on humanity,
This is because, Humanity covers most of the known galaxy.
They are the largest by far source of chaotic power in the galaxy due to their sheer, staggerring numbers and intense emotions.
Orks, Necrons, Tyranids and the Tau either have their own gods or no gods. Eldar either exclusively contribute to their own gods or Slaanesh. Good ole disciples of Slaany are constantly described as androgynous and uncanny valley levels of beautiful, this is also an apt description of Eldar.
Whilst we can all agree that the true essence of each god comes from ALL life, their sentience comes from solely humans or Eldar in a 3 to 1 ratio.
If eldar were artificially bred for war why are they inferior to marines in almost every way? Emperor had to work around the limitations of human body and had to settle for less powerful but controlable marines over Thunder Warriors, while old ones created them from scratch.
How come even orks beat them in many aspects?
Yeah, a trained human is initiative 3, initiative 4 marines are described as disconcertingly fast so even an average eldar is inhumanly fast and their trained warriors are almost impossible to follow
It's not confirmed. It just says there are hybrids and mutants in Commoragh. Nowhere is it mentioned that they are human and Eldar hybrids, or that they are actually natural hybrids and not just some genetic Dark Eldar fuckery
Dude, he is not implying eldar came first, stop raging like a little bitch. You sound like a fanboy who spergs because of stupid assumptions, and this is a 40k thread so that is saying A LOT haha.
The average bench for men is around 135. That means that at 100 times they could bench 6.75 tons. This is however a slow twitch activity and as someone else above said they are almost purely quick twitch muscle fiber for that insane movement speed. Not sure how good a purely quick twitch muscle would fair in activities like benchpressing but i'd assume there's be endurance issues for holding it up but getting it up there wouldn't be an issue.
Physically: The warriors are stronger on average (not sure about a path of the poet Eldar gal or even regular untrained Eldar folk), also faster than your average guardsman. Astartes give them a good run for their money though.
Psychic: average CWE Eldar >> average human psyker but some exceptional human psykers can push back well. A librarian seems to hold his own against a warlock. All Eldar are psychic while only some humans are. DE have outbred/outlawed psychic stuff within themselves iirc.
Emotionally: their emotions are supposed to run much deeper than in humans which caused the Fall in the end. So either they revel in causing pain and debauchery, they deaden themselves inside by going full autism on some job, or they go Amish. A lot of their energy is directed just to keep themselves from overflowing. To them our emotions are primitive and we don't even reign them in, but then we never started tantrums because a sunset was disappointing either, and Slaanesh won't eat us the moment we loose it, so we don't need to.
Mentally: they used to be capable of great innovation like humanity back in DaoT but these days they rely on their psychic powers in their great crafts and have either gotten a bit lazy with it, or Amish around baking pottery and riding dinosaurs. The innovative ones are the DE but then mostly come up with new fleshcraft and ways of torture.
CWE constantly look into the future to predict battle movements and still get BTFO every now and then, suggesting that they aren't complete kings of the hill in that aspect. Not saying every human can beat an Eldar at chess but despite their superior technology, psychic mumbo jumbo and better warriors, we still send them home with their tails behind their legs every now and then, indicating that we must be doing something right. Maybe it's simply that we have had to rely on pure intellect rather than psychic help. DE seem master schemers though.
>How come even orks beat them in many aspects?
Because Orks were the next project, after Eldar, of the making-lesser-races-for-war Old Ones.
They didn't get finished, hence the dumb, but they were 2nd major warrior race created for their fight.
Eldar civilians possess nearly as potent combat prowess as Marines do m8.
And that's not even taking in the account the Aspect warriors, who are on the level of marines.
If we go by the Valedor novel, predicting the future completely accurately is super fucking hard for the Eldar, as seeing the threads of the of Fate clearly is nearly impossible. That is due to both the very nature of the warp itself, but also because there are malignant entities within the warp that actively scheme against the Eldar, seek to block out certain potential paths of fate from the view of seers, and in general, make reading the future as hard as possible.
They are faster and stronger, i haven't read their recent armybook's fluff.
but unless they changed a ton of shit since 3/4/5th they are a tier above the average human with the aspect warriors being on par to a space marine in fluff.
I was thinking of making a human Rogue Trader character who'd actually been to Cammoragh (as a slave) and became free, after a pirate crew brought him along on their ship as a toy (for torture or whatever they could think of) as entertainment until they could get their hands on some new victims, but after the DEldar were forced to abandon their ship he was rescued. I was thinking maybe a former Commissar or such, since it'd take quite a willstrong person to have any semblance of a functional psyche after such an ideal. Thoughts on this?
Can we say that she's biomodded as a disguise? Or a minor but sanctioned abhuman with some Eldar features but 100% human? I can easily imagine some eldaraboos back during the DAoT engineering their kids to look more elfin. Hell, it's happening already IRL via surgery.
Plus there are sanctioned xenos in the FFG games. In those situations she might be part of an Inquisitor's retinue, though of course never an inquisitor herself.
There have been no mentions of half eldar in any fluff in well over a decade. Also, seeing how the Eldar fluff has began to emphasize the whole "the Eldar are freaking alien despite their superficial appearance to humans" angle, I doubt that dumb shit like half eldar that draw roots far more from Fantasy, are really part of modern 40k.
The only place where the existence of Half Eldar would make at least a bit of sense, is in Haemonculi labs of Commoragh, as those fuckers would probably be able to hybridize two alien species, if for nothing else than shits and giggles.
Though, the results would probably be horrifying abominations, instead of pretty, super speshul, humans that half elves are typically.
The eldar didn't make the webway you anal astronaut. They just piggybacked on the Old One's success
How can an Empire have a bigger Empire than the Empire whose Empire was the entire galaxy except that other Empire? Also the Eldar never built the webway they just used it after all the Old Ones died off.
The human empire in question is the first one during the golden age of Technology.
Mankind and Eldar were both powerful enough to make the other go nope.avi at the thought of war.
Easily. There's Imperial worlds everywhere in the galaxy but the rulebooks explicitly say it encompasses but a fraction of the total volume and there's loads of non-imperial territory between the various areas it controls. The pre-imperial human territory was probably about the same size, there's easily room for it to overlap with a bigger galaxywide empire.
Yeah but the Eldar were busy fucking in the Crown Worlds of their empire, which admitedly took up the width of an entire galactic arm, but humans were still capable of taking over everything else the Eldar couldn't be assed to care about.
This. I could picture eldar or humans engineered to have enhancements inspired by each other. Or, even better, surgical alterations to graft human parts onto eldar or vice versa.
But straight interbreeding is non-canon and anyone modded after the fact wouldn't be able to breed true (usually).
The AOT humanity never posed a threat to the Eldar empire.
Also, there is no confirmation that the AOT humanity even had an unified empire. There could just as well have been countless independent human factions towards the end of AOT.
He's talking about the actual hellrifle, not the hellgun.
Hellguns are laser weapons, yes. They are used by stormtroopers around the galaxy as a much better alternative to lasguns.
Hellrifles are actual slugthrowers, used by radicals, that fire pieces of daemonic matter.
Couldn't be assed or were unable. Endless tides of Man of Iron and Legions of Legions of Castigator- class Titans are a good determent.
If the singularity shooting warships do not make anything nope out before, that is.
DaoT mankind was dope as fuck.
As others have said, Eldar didn't invent the Webway. They just inherited it after the Old Ones were defeated.
The Eldar empire isn't necessarily more stable than the human empires. The human empire in the DAoT collapsed because of a galaxy-wide disaster... triggered by the Eldar. It's a little ripe to ignore the fact that the Age of Strife was the Eldar's fault.
A typical eldar has more psychic ability than a typical human. But a typical human psyker has considerably more power than a typical eldar psyker. The eldar have more control over very limited abilities, but far more psykers as a proportion of their population.
Ancient Eldar drove Necrons to sleep, and as revealed in that Admech trilogy with the singularity shooting ship, Necrons have stuff that make all that shit look as complex as a choppa.
Except you know, it is flat out stated in the core rule book, and Eldar dexes, that the Eldar faced absolutely no threats from anything during the zenith of their power. There was nothing that could even marginally pose a threat to them. That is one of the big reasons they eventually became so decadent, as they had for all intents and purposes, become unassailable.
The shit the eldar of 41st millenium possess is but a mere shadow of the weaponry and technology of their ancestors.
A codex said that Eldar lifespan and psi potential went way up as a result of the Fall, while their fertility went way down. It was supposedly the last gift of Asurman.
Which realm was bigger is never stated as far as i know.
The massive spread out of pre-imperial colonies imply that the Eldar did at least not destroy them, which means something for a race drunk on their own awesomeness.
And at the end of the DAoT there were obviously a shitload of factions, it was a complete breakdown after an extermination war against their own technology.
Warp Storms made any reunification (if existing before, otherwise unification) impossible.
Just read any introduction part of any eldar codex. They all mention how the ancient Eldar empire was basically completely unassailable.
The reason they did not exterminate humans could easily be simply because they did not care to. I mean, the eldar of that era were not the extremely xenophobic ones of 41st millenium, so as humans, orks, etc posed no threat to them, there was no reason to wipe them out.
Because they were meant to be used in concert with the Krorks. The Orks have brute strength and stamina, while the eldar have firepower and speed. Imagine if not-stupid Orks were battle brothers with aspect warrior formations.
Then also remember that we're seeing the Eldar millions of years after the War in Heaven. It's been tens of millions of years since they fought a war of survival. Since then, success in eldar society pre-Fall means intelligence, artistry, grace, social skills, and ability to cope with indolence.
They've had tens of millions of years to degrade genetically. They were engineered for perfection and combat. Evolution, if anything, has hurt rather than helped them.
You stated the answer.
>At their Zenit.
Which must've been somewere between the long nap of the Necrons and the Birth of Slaanesh, so a couple of million years.
Mankind spread to the Stars far later.
The zenit of the Eldar realm could've been long over by then.
So Mankind could've been a thread as the zenit were the Eldar reigned absolute was over.
Or go by the brainboyz fluff, then there's no degradion at all for the big ones. The old leadership degraded and are asumed to be snotlings now.
Orks grow stronger and smarter depending on their opposition. Throw Berserkers against them, and they will always fight head on. Go Operator on them and Commandos will pop up.
Same with their tech.
I wouldn't call a typical human psyker more powerful than a typical Eldar psyker, unless you count having latent psychic ability that all Eldar have as psykers.
Most human psykers are pretty weak. Even the relatively weak sanctioned psykers are actually stronger than average (the weakest ones are used to fuel the Golder Throne). Even the primaris psykers (who are among the more powerful stable unaugmented human psykers) are on par with Eldar warlocks and considerable weaker then farseers. Space Marine librarians can get more powerful than normal humans because of their augmented physique and intense training, but while they can beat a farseer in raw psychci might, the farseer is just as, if not more powerful but uses their power in less direct manners (scrying the future, mainly).
True, humans do occasionally produce alpha-level psykers, but those are a) vanishingly rare and b) are unable to safely contain their powers and tend to go insane or explode into daemons pretty much immediately when their powers manifest.
Eldar psykers also have to be very careful to not attract the attention of Slaanesh, so they prefer less over ways of using their power to exploding everythign with mind bullets and other overt displays of power.
Except the power of the Eldar empire has never been stated to have faded during that time. The whole point of the fall is that the threat to the Eldar came from within, not from other races.
The Eldar empire was outwardly at the height of it's power pretty much all the way up to the fall itself. Though the events that led to the fall took a long time to take place, with the slow spiritual malaise and degradation of the Eldar society taking root, however the actual fall itself, was a rather quick ordeal. If we go by the Asurmen book, the degradation started somewhat gradually, with the Eldar culture becoming more about thrill seeking and hedonism, but it started to eventually rapidly decline to shit like blood cults rampaging trough the streets, the ancestors of the Exodites, and later the Craftworlders fleeing (the book actually depicts the departure of Biel'Tan), to Eldar civil militias waging open war against degenerate gangs, and finally to the Birth of Slaanesh, which flat out killed most Eldar the moment it happened.
I'm saying that comparing the Eldar and human power levels is rather unfair, as you are basically comparing a guy who HAS to keep his powers contained or face horrible consequences, to a guy who has no such limiter.
They pretty much all have higher Initiative than Guardsmen so they must be faster
The Asurmen book also gives some hints to the innate psychic powers of the Eldar, that are not yet fully kept in check by training and discipline.
It has a scene in which an Eldar babby mind controls a human cultist (who was about to kill her and her mother), and forces the cultist to shoot himself. The mother herself was in a state of shock because of various reasons, which is why she was basically out of the situation.
The book also showed that Eldar infants communicate with their parents via psychic means, and that the parent and the child can actually merge their minds together in a sort of communal bond, though based on the dialogue in the book, that seems to be something that is only done when the child is very young.
To put it in perspective, the complex ancient human tech can almost one-shot a (modern) Eldar cruiser with a mini-singularity or oneshot Admech ships and hack terminator armor to lock marines in place in case of Spirit of Eternity.
The good Necron stuff can blow up the entire galaxy.
There are several "lanes" of transhumanist apotheosis. Each of the older races have followed one, and humanity is split into factions each going down one of these lanes (or has become degraded while doing so).
The Eldar started out as a bio-construct warrior race. They pushed down the path of becoming psionic superbeings like their creators. Their failing wasn't raw power or skill, but moral deficiency. This was the lane the Emperor wanted humanity to go down, but with the power of Chaos this was very risky and didn't work out as planned. Navigators are so far the only example of an abhuman species that manages to go down this path. Biomodded subspecies like the Space Marines similarly aim for physical perfection (though superficially they don't resemble Eldar).
The Necrontyr evolved naturally but rapidly reached the end of how far they could enhance with bioenhancement and cybernetics. So (with some persuasion from the C'tan) they went down the road of digitally uploading themselves and becoming Necrons. The Adeptus Mechanicus is on a path that is similar. The downside of this plan is that souls in 40k are real and you can't digitally upload them. Arguably, the Necrons are just copies emulating individuals from a long-dead race.
The Orks were another created species; actually a cluster of species that mutually supported one another. Apparently most of the other castes died out millions of years ago, leaving only the hastily-modified warrior caste left. The downside here is that while the species is wildly successful, no particular individual within it will enjoy that success. No human faction intentionally pursues this end, but the imperium in practice is slowly sliding to a more ork-like state.
The Tyranids and the Kroot follow a similar path as the Orks, though they bear little resemblance to one another; in practice they have suffered the same downside.
It's me >>45066601 again:
From what I've seen in the discussions going on, there's no way/no proof for Human/Eldar hybrids and any likely version of these would be a Haemonculus spawned abomination.
So I guess I'll just fluff it as an actual Eldar, that was picked up by my Xenos Inquisitor, maybe as a child (depending on how fast Eldar mature, i.e. human like but longer period of adulthood, or everything is longer to match their longer lifespan, including childhood)
I was curious about a half-breed, since I want to use human parts for the models body, instead of putting Imperial insignia on an Eldar mini.
As it stands I will have to handwave his stochier build when compared to actual Eldar (and in the end, probably noone but me cares about it on the tabletop)
Pretty sure there is a fluff description of an autarch pulling a darth vader on an imperial, strangling him while Holding him off the ground with one arm and asking stupid rhetorical questions. Not sure about all of them just plain being stronger than humans, i mean, there are unaugmented humans in 40k with strength 4 whole run around using heavy bolters like assault weapons. I think they're just all really fit.
In fairness, human, eldar, necron, and even ork civilizations are far, far fallen from their primes. Any race's lostech is "powerful enough" for plot purposes.
Though I do prefer Necron tech to be way ahead of eldar or human even at their prime. I hate the new Dolmen Gates thing. I much prefer when the necrons could go FTL in realspace with a bland disregard for the speed of light limit. "Fuck you, relativity, we're powered by GREEN." The idea that their tech is not just way beyond DAoT, but stupidly so, is part of the mystique.
>a guy who HAS to keep his powers contained or face horrible consequences, to a guy who has no such limiter.
but anon, ALL imperial human psykers have to control their powers or face horrible consequences. Chaos don't care about that, but they DO face the consequences, even if it's "just" horrible mutation.
But we don't know the Tyranids' origins. They could well have descended from a race that valued communal survival and adaptation as a race over individual consciousness. Imagine people voluntarily giving their consciousness up for the sake of the collective. (or, if you can't, turn on the evening news).
Or they could have been a bio-construct servitor race that went apeshit.
Or maybe they were never conscious.
Well in a way it is, blowing up the galaxy is far more impressive than superluminal travel without the Warp. It's funny that not even C'tan could help with that while Tyranids can do it.
Yeah, but for the Eldar, the fate that awaits if they face the horrible consequences is arguably far, far worse than what humans can experience, seeing how unlike human souls, Eldar souls retain consciousness within the warp, and will be tortured for the rest of eternity by Slaanesh. The Eldar are keenly aware of this fact, which is a big reason why they shy away from overt displays of psychic power.
Also, unlike the Eldar, human psykers don't have one of the 4 chaos gods personally gunning for their souls, just individual predatory deamons, which humans with sufficient mental strength can actually even fight off. You can't fight off a Chaos god coming for your soul directly.
To my knowledge, the Crons still can go FTL with no need to use the webway. The purpose of the Dolmen Gates originally was to allow them to enter the webway, not to use it for travel, but to go in there, and FIGHT the old ones in their own turf.
I mean, webway can house entire realms within it. Without Dolmen Gates, the Necrons would have never been able to attack those realms.
I thought that the Tyranids just moved slower than light and hibernated... Does this appear anywhere toher than the 5th edition codex?
I get that that makes it canon, kind of, but I don't have to like it.
Yes, but in any of those cases lacking the ability to enjoy human (or eldar) comforts isn't really a downside for nids, in the first option they chose to forego them, and in the other two such things were always alien to them.
Whilst it's pretty obvious that natural human/eldar hybrids are a no-go, could it be possible that by some manner of psychic manipulation by the Eldar (and/or the human too if they're a psyker) the conception is successful?
I mean using the warp always has been a big fuck-you to the natural order, doesn't seem impossible to use it to influence genetic recombination.
well howling banshees are generally better than Assault Marines, but the Eldar arent augmented. So a trained Eldar will be comparable to Space Marines in every way but sheer mass and raw strength.
I see it like a minimalistic thing that highlights the "art" aspect of the abomination while hiding the normal "boring" bit behind something that won't hinder his movement. Its like everything he wears minus the helmet is a picture frame and the mods are the art. The helmets just there to shield the brain.
>Source of half eldar existing in commoragh
Mandrakes are one of three things according to the last codex I bought; they're either Eldar right on the edge of the explosion when Slaanesh was born which got pulled halfway into the warp, deliberately made themselves that way or were the result of Eldar Daemon interbreeding.
forgot to thank y'all for your input, so
I agree, the "fuck relativity" approach would work so well wit Newcron fluff too: all their technological superiority, heck, they could even use arcane energies harvested from c'tan shards to power their ships.
I know, that's why they have their Ghosthelms and their Runes. And within their Craftworlds the psychic shielding provided by the infinity circuit keeps them safe from Slaanesh (there was a story of Eldrad taking off all his protective gear and relaxing and meditating. It's the one where he listens to Ynnead's heartbeat, I think. I wish I still had that WD). The torture would indeed be worse.
Humans pretty much do the same though, with the Soul binding ritual, psychic hoods and all that. Also the Inquisition closely monitors the populace, precicely because human psykers are so easily exploited by Chaos.
Might be, I thought it was 'warp beings' but I could be wrong. Either way there was some impressive heresy going on.
As far as I know there are no human/eldar hybrids in fluff any more, though the point is that there are thing/eldar hybrids and that they're not above trying it. Where people get confused I think is that in their first codex it mentions that humans live in Commoragh and that it's used as a kind of galactic Tortuga by bandits of all stripes.
As for their background, it used to be explicitly that they were caught in the blast but the other stuff was added later, which makes me suspect they're going down the hybrid route.
Loads of aliens live in Commoragh, because, as you said, it is basically galactic Tortuga.
There are orks, kroot, humans, and stranger aliens that make living as mercenaries there.
Back when Wardseers were a thing I wanted to model a disgruntled beat up Farseer with torn robes, the bandaged arm from the Cadian command box and covered in an obnoxious amount of purity seals for my guard army. Like some real entrepreneur of an imperial commander had a bright idea.
If I remember correctly she's just rumoured to be helf-eldar due to her grace and lightning reflexes. Considering she's a chaos-worshipping pirate those could very well be result of a blessing from the dark gods.
It's good evidence for it. Those books were by Graham McNeill, who has worked as a codex writer and is one of BL's inner circle authors so he knows what's going on in 40k and what isn't.
What's a wardseer? (lexicanum got nothing and google keeps telling me about warseer)
Maybe the primaris psyker in the current codex could supply the rules for a counts as? The seer would've lost a mastery level during his conversion to the Imperial Creed, or maybe it's all the purity seals breaking his concentration
That doesn't mean that the man can't make mistakes.
Half Eldar make no sense given the fluff of the Eldar.
No eldar would lower oneself to working "for" what they consider lesser beings. At best, some of them might employ themselves as mercenaries that some less xenophobic imperial factions might use. That's the closest they come to working for imperials. Otherwise, they might be temporary allies.
>Those books were by Graham McNeill, who has worked as a codex writer and is one of BL's inner circle authors so he knows what's going on in 40k and what isn't.
I'd have stuck with Tigerius saying she's a half-breed considering a sizable portion of /tg/ doesn't give a shit what McNeil or BL says.
Fluff given by who?
The only fluff that contradicts it is Si Spurrier's (who never actually worked for GW or did Merrett-coordinated projects) xenology, and that is "in-universe"written by pre-retcon necrons and madmen.
The fact that Eldar are alien species whose biology is very, very different from humans, despite their external appearances. Their dexes all mention how they are utterly alien despite seeming likeness to humans.
Eldar and human breeding successfully makes as much sense as humans and orks, or humans and tau, being able to interbreed.
None of the codices and rulebooks say anything about alien biochemistry. The Rogue Trader rulebook's explicit statement about humans and eldar being able to interbeed hasn't been contradicted either. They move in a creepy and alien way but that's always been there.
Why would they need to?
The Eldar being inhuman is very apparent in the way they are described. There has been no mention of half eldar in any dexes or rulebooks in two fucking decades.
There is no other piece of old rogue trader era fluff that people cling onto as much as the stupid half eldar librarian, and I will never understand why.
Do people actually want that sort of retarded shit in 40k?
So were the orks, yet, nobody is trying to argue that half orks are a thing in 40k. I am convinced that the only reason people want half eldar is because they want to make some speshul oc donutsteel characters or some shit.
>So were the orks
Orks don't have genders and reproduce through spores.
>is because they want to make some speshul oc donutsteel characters or some shit.
No it's because people want to make babies with their waifus.
No, Eldar civilians being as shit in combat as IG are was fucking retarded, when they were always described to be far above them.
The Eldar are superhuman beings. It is fitting that they got superhuman stats.
>Orks don't have genders and reproduce through spores
The Eldar are an alien species, and assuming that their reproduction works the same as that of humans, or is compatible with humans is retarded.
>No it's because people want to make babies with their waifus.
That's even worse reason.
Eldar are described as humanlike, even attractive, it's their body language and movements that are alien. There was also a half-eldar in Necromunda, child of some Ranger and a hiver woman iirc. Orks are a completely different matter in that there's never been any indication they were physically similar never mind capable of breeding with humans, even before they became fungus.
Even Eldar characters themselves realize the similarities, Abnett's "Blind Hopes":
>She wondered what the humans would make of her. A goddess, no doubt. In their eyes, she was a woman, far above average height for a human female, slender, and majestic. It was a ironic joke of the Cosmos that Eldar and human were so physically alike. Her perfection would have triggered wars of lust and driven human males to despair.
>She liked that idea. The mammals of Terra, weeping at her impossible beauty.
>She wept too. She wept blood. She wept for her mouldering craftworld and the shades of all those of her race that had perished. She wept because she had seen what was coming.
>Her name was Ela' Ashbel, Farseer. She considered what a human mouth would make of her name.
>The Eldar are an alien species, and assuming that their reproduction works the same as that of humans, or is compatible with humans is retarded.
That is Canon though. The Eldar view it as some sick joke the universe is pulling on them.
>trained militia of better-than-human race shouldn't be as good as elite of that race
>The Eldar are an alien species, and assuming that their reproduction works the same as that of humans, or is compatible with humans is retarded.
You are talking about space fantasy setting, not some hard sci-fi bullshit.
Back when the psychic rules were different and the allies rules were new, people took to picking eldar allies solely to have a Farseer with wards to force opponents to roll three dice on their leadership tests to use psychic powers, considerably increasing their chance of getting perils of the warp.
None of that means that the Eldar are reprodutctively compatible with humans.
Also, the fluff state that while the Eldar are beautiful by human standards this beauty is shared by both sexes. Humans find both male and female eldar attractive. However, I remember reading a bit in some dex that mentioned that seeing the Eldar move immediately betrays their inhuman and alien nature, and is even disturbing to witness to humans.
>That is Canon though. The Eldar view it as some sick joke the universe is pulling on them.
Source on that.
How is that even an argument against this?
By same margin, you could argue that every other xeno race could breed with humans, cus "its spesh fantasy, so obviously halfbreeds are a thing, despite them making no sense".
The Eldar are still a freaking alien species. Again, their dexes all state that despite their outward similarity to humans, they are still inherently alien and inhuman.
Why shouldn't it be?
It makes far more sense for it to be higher than that of standard humans, like IG, seeing how the Eldar posses both far better reflexes, senses, and speed, than your run of the mill human does.
Because GW wants it.
Yep, the Eldar interbreeding actually was explicitly mentioned during 2e and RT, and alluded to later. It's always been there so it's weird that some get butthurt about it.
well howling banshees are generally better than Assault Marines, but the Eldar arent augmented. So a trained Eldar will be comparable to Space Marines in every way but sheer mass and raw strength.
>The universe groaned as scything waves of light emerged from the praetorians’ covenant rods. Weeping humans, eyes and mouths wide, desperation spewing from their wretched faces, erupted into clouds of burning ash. Other bodies were dragged out of buildings by unthinking, unfeeling warriors and lined up in rows for incineration. It was endlessly fascinating, Anrakyr mused, that life always followed the same paths. They were fleshy and pink or brown, all colours drawn from the same palette. Some were tall. Others were short. Female and male. But they all followed the same template.
>Two legs. Two arms. One head. How unbelievably common. The universe tried to impose order, from the eldar to the necrontyr to these human dregs. Two by two. A curious coincidence or evidence of some great plan? That it all led to entropy and disruption, to chaos, was an eternal shame. Only the necrons had refused such predestination, electing to take a different path rather than walk down the road that led to destruction.
Eldar and humans follow the same template.
So says Anrakyr the Traveller.
I was under the impression that even basic guardians were Eldar who had walked the path of the warrior before and not just lolandumb citizen number 3... or was that just stormguardians?
ah, I see. thanks for clearing that up
Apparentely in 40k all our food tastes of promethium, the air is badly recycled, stale air and even the water (recycled from piss) is unpalatable to any Eldar. So probably not the food.
Consider Lelith Hesperax. Physical peak unaugmented Eldar who doesn't use performance enhancers. WS/BS/I above any human or Space Marine. GW intends Eldar to be superhumanly fast and skilled.
I hate the notion because it is god damn stupid, and makes 40k even more like just spesh fantasy than it already is. It dilutes and degrades the Eldar, making them less alien, and more just pointy eared humans.
Half-eldar also ad nothing to the setting, at least in the way most people here seem to want it, which is just pretty psychic humans aka, how half elves are in fantasy. The main reasons why people even seem to want them is so that they can make some speshul snowflake characters.
I am so damn glad that GW has basically completely dropped the notion, outside of few authors occasionally alluding to it in shitty BL novels.
For the record, I find the idea of human-eldar hybrids made by the Haemonculi to be actually pretty interesting concept, and one that would actually make sense given the setting and the nature of the Haemonculi. But of course, that wouldn't suit the fags who cling to the Rogue Trader era fluff, because such hybrids wouldn't be the pretty, smart and psychic humans that they want half eldar to be.
No they don't. They augment themselves, whereas the Eldar crystallizing thing is something that happens naturally to Farseers, who are extremely long lived.
>implying you'd get fresh food and something like fruit
Maybe if you're high up the chain of command or a spoiled navigator
Also, drive a cart of apples in your trunk during 200 miles while spewing diesel fumes then see if it doesn't smell of it a but.
She is an example of what Eldar at their absolute physical peak are capable of. She is not an example of the average, she is an example of the zenith. However, the average is still heads and toes above that of the average of humanity.
It happens to farseers because of their psychic ability and connection to craftworld. Not to any other eldar. It is magic.
Things made by haemonculi by the way can be anything the archon ordering them can afford, including smart and pretty.
True, but being smart and pretty on the outside, doesn't mean that they are that on the inside. Especially the pretty part. We are talking about the Deldar here after all. They are wretched beings to their core.
>not being bored by millenia of bland eldar cuisine
>not being fed up with chefs so scared of slaaneh they don't even dare seasoning
>not appreciating the rich, smokey, whiskey-like taste of promethium in your meals
why even live?
as the guy who wanted the half-eldar inquisitorial henchman - I guess I am guilty of the speshul snowflake, although he needn't be pretty, I'm only interested in the psyker and the xenos bit. Infact he'd probably have implants and/or scars from the procedures that ensure his loyal service.
Guardians are literally every day chump eldar. It makes sense for them, as a long-lived race to be as skilled as career soldiers(imperial Guardsman) Not genetically modified super-soldiers(Space marines)
People's scale of WS and BS are way off. Everyone seems to forget that guardsmen and fire warriors are trained soldiers, not just random doods off the streets.
BS3 is not the human standard, orks are closer to what every day humans would have.
BS 4 is truly exceptional, 5 and 6 would be shooting a bullet out of the air skilled.
If we're going with "But muh eldars are better than humans!" Then untrained doods being WS/BS 3 would be better, just not absurdly so.
I'm not him but I'd say they'd be veteran level. He said Career soldiers and it's not like anyone who isn't a veteran guardsmen has been in the guard long enough to consider it a "Career" and not just a terrifying campaign of rampant death and confusion
What is the problem with Eldar being "truly exceptional" shots and melee fighters?
I hate to repeat myself, but they are SUPERHUMAN beings. Their baseline being simply better than that of humans, is just how they are.
Considering IG veterans (and note that the qualify as a veteran in IG you just have to survive longer than 15 hours) have bs4, I have no problem with space-elves who live for a millenia and have vastly superior reflexes and agility than any unaugmented human have ws and bs 4.
Except it is.
It has been part of their fluff since forever. Their stats didn't reflect that until recently unfortunately.
What is with you faggots? Do you have some issues with non human beings being superior to humans or something?
Kabalite warriors are highly trained eldar soldiers and killers. They have WS/BS 4.
So why is a shmuck baker of the same race as skilled?
Because whomever wrote the Eldar codex is a complete fucking moron
First off; they're superhumanly fast, which is fine.
Second off; I have NO issues with them being superb shots, Aspect warriors being 4 is fair and legal. The issue is with random militia being as talented as purpose built killing machines. That shit it dumb.
Why is it dumb?
First off, the Eldar as a race, are "purpose built killing machines". Secondly, there is no reason why their "random milita" couldn't be on the level of Space Marines BS and WS wise. Again, they are superhuman beings, just like spesh muhreens are. Them performing at superhuman level, is expected.
Because Eldar aren't all warriors, the aspects should have WS/BS 4 because training. Schmucks should be WS/BS 3 to represent better reaction times and whatnot. Just tossing them an extra point of both is idiotic.
An eldar is no where NEAR the level of a space marine, not even close when it comes to physical prowess. Yes they're fast, but they're also no stronger or tougher than an ordinary human.
looked back through the codices I own and I was mistaken. It's the warlocks who walked the path of the warrior before they joined the seers.
However, Guardians aren't completely untrained. In the entry for Guardians in 6th it says every Eldar is TRAINED for service as a guardian. And Windriders are Guardians too and 7th says it takes them years to master the art of jetbiking.
Kabalite warriors are also grown in vates via hyper accelerant drugs. Like a sw Clone Trooper, and we all know what became of them
Be thankful Kabalites don't have stormtrooper aim
I know I am
BS and WS do not reflect strength or toughness you doofus.
The Eldar baseline having BS4 and WS4 is completely fucking fine. Their senses, speed, and reflexes alone are at least on par, if not superior to spesh muhreens after all.
Again, Eldar are SUPERHUMAN BEINGS.
They do not have to have equal stats with run of the mill humans.
Or maybe they're better than guardians but not on par with aspect warriors so they're still stuck to ws/bs 4. Even in the DE codex Hellions, who are just street punks, have ws/bs 4.
40k scale isn't very granular so each point in stats covers a pretty wide area. For example Orks are supposed to be able to rip a humans arms off and beat them to death with them, yet still have the same strenght as an unaugmented humans. Plus different codices have different ways of representing skill with stats. IG has a clear ws/bs progression from untrained conscripts to guardsmen to veterans, but with Marines and Tau there is no difference in the stats from a freshly recruited scout or firewarrior to a first company veteran or battlesuit shas'vre, untill you get to the HQ entry when the stats suddenly jump up.
but Eldar are S/T 3 so they are neither stronger nor tougher than marines... sooo what's your beef?
I know it's been said that they have to be stronger to account for their speed, but it's Space Elves, I don't think it matters
a scale that maxes out at 10 with the vast majority concentrated on the lower third to half probably can't depict the nuances between guardsmen eldar and marines
orks should be S4 though
No, but S and T do. Eldar < Astartes in everything except being fast.
If we want to go superior reflex = better WS and BS that's fine, but human average is 2, so elderp average would logically be 3
>who are just street punk
Being a street punk in Commoraugh is a bit more impressive then being a street punk in your run of the mill Hive World. Plus they're constantly trying to prove their on par with Reavers and Scourges so they constantly have to worry about these two better equipped enemies wanting to knock them down a peg.
>No, but S and T do
And nobody has claimed that the Eldar are stronger or tougher than the Astartes, or hell, even humans are, at least not to any significant margin.
>Eldar < Astartes in everything except being fast.
Except their WS and BS are equal at base level.
>elderp average would logically be 3
Again, based on what?
Aun'shi vs 2 Dark Eldar beastmasters and their pets
>Creatures were now standing on the platform. Aun’shi did not know how it was possible, but they had simply appeared. They were silhouetted by the flowing energy field behind them. Four of them looked like oversized canines whose skins had been removed. The other three were whip-thin, bipedal humanoids. In their hands they held a variety of nets and barbed spears. What clothing they wore was skin tight and adorned with blades and spikes. A flock of bird-like creatures broke through the silver pool, making sounds like screaming babies. They circled around the top of the chamber, pecking at one another.
>Aun’shi had dedicated entire decades to the study of the races that dwelt in the dark places out beyond the Empire. These had to be the Var Sin’da, the ‘dark raiding ones’: piratical monsters who struck from the shadows, took what they wanted, and vanished back from whence they came. To his knowledge, they had never been seen in tau space until now.
>The hounds snarled as the three lanky figures surveyed their surroundings, and noticed the tau simultaneously. They said something in their native language, and smiled wickedly.
>Aun’shi shrugged off this thermal robe and walked a few steps forward. From his belt, he unclipped a heavy cylinder. With a flick of his wrist, it telescoped outwards from either end, forming a long, bladed staff. He twirled it like a windmill, and then spread his arms wide. Over his shoulder, he called out to Gue’run. ‘Take my skimmer. You and your men get back to Colony Twenty-Three. Tell them what’s happened.’
>‘What about you?’ Gue’run cried.
>Aun’shi squared his shoulders. ‘I’ll be fine,’ he said, more to himself than in reply.
> no adequately explained reason.
What part about SUPERHUMAN BEING, do you not understand?
The Eldar have keener senses, faster reflexes and movements than humans do, by a wide fucking margin. That is enough of a reason for their stats to be higher. I am sorry that the fact that your run of the mill Eldar civilian is simply better than human soldiers, but that is just how it is.
>Gue’run and Bentu scrambled back towards the tunnel entrance. Two of the Var Sin’da moved as if to go after them, but Aun’shi matched their steps. He shook his head, sure that his posture spoke clearly across any cultural gulf.
>At some unspoken command, the skinless hounds charged forwards. Aun’shi flipped himself backwards to land on top of the bulky scanning machine where he couldn’t be surrounded. The monsters yelped and swiped at him. He beat their claws away with his staff. They tried to leap at him. Again he stopped them from so much as touching him. His weapon was a blur, moving left and right, blocking and sweeping. One of them launched towards him, its jaws gaping. Aun’shi stepped back, swung his staff in a wide arc, and decapitated it. The remaining three beasts paused to re-evaluate their target. He let them regroup and jumped down, putting the scanner between himself and the monsters.
>One of the Var Sin’da made a piercing whistle, and the flock of birds responded. They rocketed towards the tunnel, intent on catching up with Gue’run. Aun’shi hurled his staff at them like a javelin, then broke into a sprint. The blade pierced one of the birds clean through, and dropped into Aun’shi’s waiting hand. The rest raced back up to the ceiling, crying in protest.
>The grins had vanished from the faces of the Var Sin’da. Instead they looked perplexed. The one standing in the middle barked out an order, and the other two charged forwards. The hounds and birds did likewise.
>‘I’ll be fine,’ Aun’shi reminded himself.
>They hit him all at once with an avalanche of claws, beaks and blades. Nothing could find purchase. Aun’shi gripped his staff loosely, tucking it in close to stop a spear, sweeping it high to strike a bird, jabbing it straight forwards to knock a hound away. He was the eye in a storm of violence. Their inability to hit him, let alone hurt him, made the two Var Sin’da boil with anger. They screamed obscenities at him. The birds wailed. The hounds roared.
>Aun’shi said nothing. His face was impassive. Even when a serrated blade at last slipped past him and gouged a deep hole in his arm, he stayed silent and focused. There were too many, he realised. He was only holding them off, instead of inflicting casualties. He tried to back up into the tunnel. In the closer confines, he thought, he might be able to focus on killing his foes, rather than simply stalling them.
>One of the hound creatures snapped at his ankle. He reflexively kicked it in the face. His knuckles were scratched and bleeding, torn up by the birds. The wound in his arm began to burn terribly. His vision blurred. The spear, he thought. Something on the spear. Toxin. Very underhanded.
>He was nearly to the tunnel when he lost all feeling in his right arm. The agony was spreading across his chest now. His skin felt like it was on fire. He tried to compensate, but his defence crumbled and he dropped to one knee. Something slammed into the side of his face, twisting his head. Blood sprayed from between clenched teeth. The world swam, and he went down. They kicked him in the spine, and something was chewing on his legs, but these were distant, secondary things. The knife wound consumed his thoughts. He had never felt such agony. The ice did nothing to soothe his skin.
>After a few moments, he realised dimly that he was still alive. Cold, smooth hands were holding his head, rolling it from side to side. He fought to stay awake.
We see here an unaugmented and old Tau holding up against two Dark Eldar Beastmasters and their assortment of beasts.
If he wasn't poisoned, he would have fought them off for a long time.
This is why you shouldn't take Eldar wankery seriously. In actual application in the fluff, it doesn't hold up.
Run of the mill civilian isn't quite accurate. Or it is but gives slightly wrong impression. Guardians are effectively Eldar citizen militia. They receive combat training, and due to Eldar living a very long time probably have more combat training than the average guardsman.
If untrained human conscripts are bs/ws 2 and guardsmen, who have basic training but are hardly the most elite of forces (well, depending on regiment; some are very well-trained while others aren't) have bs/ws 3, it would be hardly unexpected for basic untrained Eldar to be ws/bs 3, guardians with basic training to be ws/bs 4 and aspect warriors who are fully dedicated to the art of war to have ws/bs 5.
clearly, the Tau should open more dojos. They aren't a shooting race, seeing as they need all their fancy technology to aid their aim. Aun'shi was unaugmented, with a simple, pointy stick.
Tau confirmed for melee race.
Guardians are trained too you fucking retard.
They aren't just given a Shurken catapult and told to go fight the enemy (which is actually basically how some Imperial worlds recruit their IG).
You don't seem to get that the difference between an Aspect Warrior and a Guardian is more about philosophy than just training. Aspect Warriors take upon the path of the Warrior because they have barely contained urges to go on murdersprees or shit like that. Being an Aspect Warrior is a way for them to channel those urges in a controlled way.
Guardians are people whose passions have led them to follow other paths. Their military training does not involve Aspect philosophies nor is their role as Guardians a way for them to went their murderlust, like it is for the Aspect Warriors.
If we're exploring the idea that they've had a very long time to do what they do, Marines should be WS/BS 5 as well, at the very least sergeants and anything from the Elites section.
My point is that all of these arguments, most of them at least, have some solid standing in theory. But since 40k is a crude system at best it makes more sense to take the short glance and say "K, randoms humans are 2, eldar are faster and better coordinated so we'll give them 3, Marines and Aspects have been doing this for literally centuries, so 4 it is."
And as far as game terms are concerned, giving the elderp so many buffs AND then upping their ballistic caused some serious imbalances.
I always thought that with all the power creep the "baseline" stats of the units in 40k needed a revamp; especially marines on TT vs fluff. Eldar and orcs too. Bs 1 orcs unless they are flash gits.
>If we're exploring the idea that they've had a very long time to do what they do, Marines should be WS/BS 5 as well, at the very least sergeants and anything from the Elites section.
Agreed, and Tau battlesuit pilots, at least the shas'vre, should have bs4 (to get promoted to a battlesuit pilot it takes at least 8 years of combat experience and passing a trial by fire, plus another 8 years and another trial to become a shas'vre). IG are the oddball in having a noticeable ws/bs progression from conscripts to veterans. Well, Eldar also have difference in guardian and aspect warrior stats, but considering the aspect warriors are fully dedicated to warfare and described as super-skilled even by Eldar standars them getting a boost to ws/bs over the guardians is understandable.
Just because you dislike the Eldar being superior to humans doesn't mean that the fluff "sucks their cock".
Except IG are not trained like Navy SEAL's you idiot. They are very much conscripts that are trained en mass.
And for all we know, the Eldar milita training is simply just better than the training Ig gets.
There is no way around the fact that Guardians are simply better than IGs are.
The current stat system has so limited graduality largely because the rules are based on D6.
Doesn't it seem altogether easier to just leave the masses of elderp on the same scale and leave the hardened veterans to the 4 and ups?
I mean, I wouldn't mind the guardian WS and BS being 4, -if- Marines and similarly elite units were higher.
So this pretty much boils down to your butthurt about baseline Eldar being as good shots and melee fighters as Muhreens are?
They have better skills, technology and biology. But "superior"??
One side is a bunch of entitled people suffering with a severe case of delusional post-traumatic disorder, and the other are the legitimate fanatical disciples of Ayn Rand.
I don't dislike them, but I feel disgust for humans who shill for them.
The Eldar are phsyically superior to humans. They are faster, smarter, have stronger senses, and quicker reflexes.
This is fucking basic fluff, and only people who for some inane reason take issues with "elves being better" would dispute the above.
DE society is pretty much Rand's wet dream. The kabalite system is (on paper at least) a pure meritocracy, and the DE as a whole are all about getting personal power regardless of the cost to anybody else, and not having any regulations on how to conduct their quest for power.
no, are you?
they feel emotions more keenly than humans, that includes fear.
that means an average guardsman will keep pushing because of his commissar or due to undying feth in the emprah while the eldar pull back because their soulstones are gone.
IIRC she considers it ruining the experience. You can't fully experience the exhileration of combat if your senses are clouded by drugs. Plus she's good enough that she doesn't need any extra help. Other, less skilled wytches use combat drugs and fancy weapons as a crutch. Lelith doesn't need to. She can dudge bullets without any augmentation and kill terminators with a butter knife because she's just so damn good.
I never roleplayed in the first place.
And seeing how Eldar LD is higher than that of guardsment, your statement is also wrong. A big part of Craftworld culture is learning how control their emotions, (that is what the path system is ultimately about in a way), so even if they do feel fear in far greater depths than humans do, they also have far greater control of their fear than humans have.
That does not necessarily apply to the Deldar, though being able to master one's fear is probably necessary in order to survive in Commoragh.
Well Trips it vastly increases her appeal to the crowds, she doesn't have to pay the cash to get them, she doesn't suffer from the side effects, she doesn't become dependent on their help or to whoever supplies her, it makes scrubs trying to emulate her easier to kill and it gives her the immense satisfaction of being one of the only wyches to ever reach her height completely unaided by any outside force.
Beckjann has the best Deldar art.
Nah, I barely read anything by her, and what I read I didn't like.
What I don't like even more is falsely accusing ideologies of advocating things none of their teachings say and none of their disciples have done.
No, its that Humans need to augment themselves to the point Space Marines are just to stand a chance in the Galaxy.
I wish Dark Eldar would get more attention and a few more noted characters for each variant warrior they've got. Like I bet the Solarite (or whatever group of Scourges) Vect trusts with his messages is a pretty cool guy.
>but it is still regulation
Man, if you want to wrestle the power with him, good luck. Just don't get caught alive.
Read about 'Dysjunction', you will see psychic powers in the Dark City are gas near a fire.
>You can't fully experience the exhilaration of combat if your senses are clouded by drugs
That's fucking retarded. Even humanity in this day and age has drugs that enhance experiences, makes experiencing and overall perception clearer and stronger. Not all drugs are heroin.
Emperor was anti-aug unless marines, custodes etc were concerned so doesn't happen. It's funny how craftworld eldar are anti-aug too however.
Cybernetic augs will eat your soul though.
>Every Iron Hands squad was active, spread out across the labyrinthine interior. When he chose to, Telach could see them all in his mind, arranged like dots of starlight amid the huge backdrop of the hive spire. The younger the warriors were, the brighter their light burned. The veterans of the Chapter, those like Khatir and Rauth, only shone dimly in the dark, like the afterglow of a lumen after the power has been cut.
>He knew why that was. Perhaps only the Chapter’s Librarius really understood the price the Iron Hands paid for their physical enhancement.
>What would happen, Telach wondered, if an Iron Hand ever achieved the perfection he craved? What would happen if, by some miracle of bioengineering, the very last fragments of organic matter were stripped from his metal skeleton? Would he register at all on Telach’s map of souls, or would he slip into nothingness, lost in the background coldness of the material universe?
>Emperor was anti-aug unless marines, custodes etc were concerned so doesn't happen.
Really? This was a thing. The writers just keep adding to the Emperors list of hypocrisies. I mean there's being against the admechs whole "The Flesh is Weak" thing but whats wrong with a soldier getting a robo arm or a shiny new eye?
>It's funny how craftworld eldar are anti-aug too however.
I don't think I've ever heard of a permanently augmented craftworlder.
>it gives her the immense satisfaction of being one of the only wyches to ever reach her height completely unaided by any outside force
This is the only one that makes the slightest bit of sense, and it makes quite a lot of it.
How don't the others make sense? A wych's life is almost entirely in the hands of the crowd, they're approval is everything. If she needed the drugs she'd become reliant on making her own cocktail in which case she has less time to focus on training and intrigue, or reliant on someone else which is a horrible idea in Commoragh. In either case both the immediate and long term effects would be iffy. The cause and effect with the killing her fangirls is a bit iffy, but I bet its screwed over a few wyches who have been thrown against her.
>Eldar and humans follow the same template.
Eldar, humans, tau, orks, necrontyr... a VERY long list. Essentially they're punting on the "rubber suit alien" trope used in 40k and countless other space opera settings.
Other settings that even bother with explanations suggest panspermia or precursor races.
>she doesn't have to pay the cash to get them
What, is she saving for her first apartment? She has the money she needs, drugs or no.
>she doesn't suffer from the side effects
I'm pretty certain the DEldar have, after being immortal junkie scientists for millenia, invented combat enhancing drugs that don't fuck you up.
>she doesn't become dependent on their help or to whoever supplies her
She can afford her own lab and she wouldn't just lose her skills from using performance enhancers, nor is every drug powerfully addictive.
>it makes scrubs trying to emulate her easier to kill
She's looking for good fights, not easy fights.
Eldar have the bigger ass so it's all good in the hood.
>don't drugs work BY fucking your shit up?
No. There are harmful drugs, there are non-harmful drugs. There are drugs that deaden emotion, there are drugs than enhance emotion. There are drugs that make you more social, drugs that make you more aggressive, more relaxed, drugs that make you hallucinate, drugs that improve your memory, etc. etc.. Some have bad side-effects, some don't. Some are difficult to make, some aren't. Some you need a lot of, some you need little of. Some are addictive, some aren't. And there's no conceivable way the DEldar don't have a million more drugs than we do.
Well Lilith hasn't always been the Queen of Blades. Even she's had her starts which is more what I was referring to. Loose ends and investments the drugs would have gotten in the way of may have been concerns long ago when she started out even if they'd be infinitesimal dents to her intrigues now.
>There is no other piece of old rogue trader era fluff that people cling onto as much as the stupid half eldar librarian, and I will never understand why.
Because it annoys grognards like you who want 40k to be super serious all the time.
Allegedly they're smarter, faster, stronger, and more agile than baseline humans. On the other hand there are very few examples showcasing this, while there are plenty of examples of them being stupider, weaker, but more agile than humans.
Fucking BL. It's easy to say someone is smarter, less easy to portray it. It's easy to say a group is awesomely deadly, harder to show it without having your protagonists being sliced and diced.
That's what some people say. Others don't. Frank Zappa, the heirophant of psychedelic, refused to take drugs because he felt that they prevented true creativity. Whereas others say drugs foster it.
Incidentally, drugs in general tend to increase your overall perception of your own abilities, while lowering them in objective terms. So if you have a massive lack of self-efficacy, you might need the drugs to perform at all, or to have the daring to perform your best. Even if you're really gimping yourself to do it.
*Let's see, Ragnar Danneskjold shot security guards in cold blood despite the narrative describing them as being too paralyzed with indecision to be a threat or obstacle.
*The narrative described a bunch of innocent bystanders death by asphyxiation as being deserved because of their incredibly minor to non-crimes.
*There's Howard Roark blowing up a building because his designs for it weren't followed to the letter.
To name a few other objectivist characters:
*Mr. A will let people suffer and bleed out for the crimes and once hit someone for calling him A instead of Mr. A.
*Richard Rahl is fine with torture, random acts of killing and mind control as long as its him or someone who he is allied with that does it.
*Rorschach killed Captain Carnage, a harmless person who pretended to be a super-villain because he got pleasure from being beaten up. What do you expect from an expy of Mr. A (see above).
*Light Yagami has the same idea of what justice is as Mr. A and will kill any criminal whose name and face he can get ahold of as well as police investigators trying to stop him. Because they are obviously siding with criminals for trying to stop him from killing criminals.
*Walter White is fine with hitting someone who isn't living up to his standards and refused an offer of employment from a friend out of pride and because he can't stand not being in charge. He also poisoned an 8 year old in order to survive, rationalizing himself as not giving the 8 year old anything worse than an inconvenience because he measured it out so that the dose wouldn't kill him, since that apparently makes it okay.
*Lex Luthor intellectualized his drive to kill Superman by claiming that Supermans isn't being a superhero out of any actual desire to do the right thing but instead want's to flaunt his superiority over humanity. A view repeatedly echoed by objectivists.
In conclusion, Rand was okay with using violence for your goals if the target deserved it (and as demonstrated above, it took little to make someone deserve it in her mind). It's rather unsurprising when you think about how the philosophy defines morality as the effectiveness of the actions a consciousness takes to preserve itself, which makes moral myopia into a virtue instead of a character flaw.
Yeah; but that doesn't mean that they couldn't revamp the who system again; fix up all this inconsistencies.
Hell one reason to explain eldar guardians being ws3bs3 is they have lost their earmark / havent got it in place the fire to maim slaughter the enemy this fact alone means that they hesitate and don't make the most of every opportunity