Who are the evil mega-corporations in your cyberpunk game, /tg/?
Are they based on real corporations or completely imaginary ones?
I wrote 'who' and not 'what' because corporations are people, of course.
>LEDs under miniskirt
I know what we're doing the next time we go out clubbing
God fucking damnit.
That was a good one.
The Megacorporations fall into one of two categories
The corps funded and owned by the Illuminate
And the corporations funded and owned by the Exalted
They are 2 secret societies in global conflict with eachother
Imagine a Cold War but fought between megacorps, sometimes openly in the streets
A single world government that's constant internal conflict between secret organisations fought through megacorporations
That's the real problem: it's not that a secret cabal of shadowy power brokers is running the government for their own nefarious purposes, it's that there are fifty different secret cabals all running it by committee. What we need is strong, centralized conspiracy!
Those are the guys who manufacture the LED skirts?
Her hardware is open source...wide open source. So wide that she's been distro'd to every nerdy hacker in Bangkok! She gets updated every night.
Right now, Gunderson Corp. and they're actually the mob. Later on? Saeder-Krupp at some point. Aztechnology, and Ares Macrotechnology.
Also, technically, Burger Queen, a fast-food line for and by queers.
Exactly. Enough of these half-baked, all-powerful yet surprisingly incompetent cabals!
Pic related is the strong, secretive leadership this world really needs!
Don't Vote Shodan 2016 And Every Year Forever. Remember, you don't have to vote. Just acquiesce!
Military/Industrial Megacorp (sometimes based on Stark Industries)
Mining and Shipping Megacorp (Sometimes based on Weyland-Yutani)
Medical/Biotech Megacorp (Don't really have a good source for this one)
Unobtanium-Controlling Megacorp (based on DeBeers)
Consumer Tech Megacorp (Based on Apple)
I tend to avoid having a news/media corp: the entertainment industry, as a "big deal" is mostly dead and official news outlets, like any formal public sector, are a thin veneer over limited cooperation between the megacorps, with different outlets shilling more for one corp than the others.
OK, they're pure evil, but they're pretty small on a global basis.
Haha. Yeah. We can laugh about it now.
Because the zombies have all been destroyed and the victims have been cremated ash for 2 years. Ha.
>but they're pretty small on a global basis.
BUT WHAT IF THEY WEREN'T
this is how you story
It is entertaining nonetheless.
>BUT WHAT IF THEY WEREN'T
Well then pic related.
She also made "hacking shoes".
FUTURE PENETRATION TESTING
The two main ones in my current campaign are Orton Industries and Mayfair Incorporated. Both are fuckhuge conglomerates that have total controll over several inhabited planets, and the campaign is focused on somewhat newly settled planet that the two are fighting for control over.
They're not intentionally based on any single real corporation, but I draw inspiration from all over the place.
Did someone say my name in reverse somewhere on the Internet?
I'm onto you, buddy.
The big chemical corp who is in charge of most traditional cosmetics and cleaners that dumps corpses into vats of something nasty to see how pretty the bubbles are.
Big computer and software corp that's evil only because they hire hackers to go around spam filters and ad blocks on everything, including turning people momentarily blind with their commercials.
The bio-food manufacturer that, once they reached their peak, went around and murdered cows and chickens to extinction so they can have exclusive rights to artificial beef, milk, eggs and chicken.
The media corp that works with the computer corp to bombard people with their ads. (no news manipulation from their part, though, that's for the government only).
What are they called?
>went around and murdered cows and chickens to extinction
I can see that being a difficult, multi-decade project which would make several billion people quite upset.
Just do what Monsanto does instead: patent a gene, release it into the non-modded population then claim ownership of the offspring, who will all have the mod. Works well enough now.
Neon corp (Nickname: Neon Corpse for obvious reasons)
Macroware Industries (Because i am unimaginative like that)
Tiang&Weng Foods inc.
Nu-Time Warner inc. (Remade from the remains of the old Time Warner once the market crash dropped it off the radar)
But then that's not "murdered all the cows and chickens", is it.
It's "spread viral mutation into cow/chicken and claimed copyright over all the cows/chickens on the planet."
Which is equally silly, but whatevs.
>no mention of pigs
>I see the pig-human brain transplant experiments were a success
In-universe the artificial pig meat tasted nasty compared to the real stuff, so they merely bought more than half the pigs on the planet, vaccinated them and released a virus to kill the rest they didn't own.
I'm fond of both the standard evil bastard corps and the occasional ideologically motivated company that either a) has questionable ideologies to begin with or b) does questionable things to further good ideologies because they have to. Pic related.
Her face is fine. Boobs are a little, a little, more objective in terms of appeal. Faces are a lot more variable in terms of preference. Plus, boob jobs are a lot harder to fuck up and slightly harder to notice at a glance.
Those things get hot.
Also pretty embarassing when the tank leaks, mane.
Seriously though those are most like not LEDs, but EL wires or somesuch.
Basically a phosphor coated wire with a current running through it that makes it glow.
It's what people that do these dance performances etc use.
It's also used for lighting tight spaces like the inside of a car when you are trying to shoot something in there with a camera.
>Her hardware is open source...wide open source. So wide that she's been distro'd to every nerdy hacker in Bangkok! She gets updated every night.
You're basically that guy explaining the joke.
I've got a better question.
Who are the benevolent (or at least unusually well-intentioned, and not in the "good ends justify bad means" sort of way) mega-corporations in your cyberpunk game, /tg/?
>>statism all over again.
No. What we need is returning to a local kind of government and economy, destroy the failures that see the nation states and reestabilish proper feudal rule.
Sysco is one. They provide food and tasty condiments for millions of people, all for PROFIT. Fucking evil bastards.
Also those disgusting pigdogs at Whole Foods, and the vicious exploiters at Apple. EVIL EVIL EVIL.
The fun thing about cyberpunk is that it's meant as a critique of corporations, but the only way to make them evil enough to be plausible is to make them into little governments.
She was a hacker/maker who was coming up with new fashion ideas. She went to a maker conference in the USA and was shocked when feminists started condemning her and attacking her in social media.
She had her 15 minutes of fame, went back to china, and went right back to building things. I think she's awesome and wish her well.
Also: classic blunder thread.
>She was a hacker/maker who was coming up with new fashion ideas. She went to a maker conference in the USA and was shocked when feminists started condemning her and attacking her in social media.
Of fucking course they did.
I made these using Stars Without Numbers' random corporation tables.
--Legitimate Businesses: Plastics, Psionics
--Illicit Business: Prostitution
--Reputation/Rumors: Secretly run by a psychic cabal, high-level political connections, new CEO turned over a new leaf
Allegedly the finest "personal improvement" company in the galaxy, the Malhotra Circle is a chain of spas that specialize in "physical and mental enhancement" (plastic surgery and transcendental meditation), with a little prostitution on the side. Their original owners were a cabal of psychics that wanted to breed an all-psychic master race, using honey traps and mind control to keep prying eyes away. They were ultimately defeated from within; a "neuroplasticity masseuse" named Indrani Sharma exposed the cabal's plots, ended the eugenics program, and was ultimately elected CEO. The Circle is now mostly legit, although the spas' bookshelves still have a suspicious number of Kama Sutra manuals...
--Businesses: Computer Hardware, Programming
--Reputation/Rumors: Dangerously insane owner, rumored cover-up of a massive industrial accident
The Silverlight Organization is an innovator in industrial control hardware and software; however, it is better known for its notorious owner, Obafemi Amabere Olumese. Obafemi is obssessed with "testing" his company's hardware and software by infecting the company's machines with malware of his own devising, monitoring the bugs' progress, and firing employees that fail to respond in time. Bugs that don't get fixed wreak havoc in the factories they ultimately control, and Obafemi's increasingly complex "tests" have made these incidents more common, more destructive, and harder to cover up. After an infected Silverlight system caused an orbital shipyard explosion, watchdog groups and politicians have called for a boycott on Silverlight products and even accused Obafemi of cyberterrorism.
>when your megacorp absorbs nearly all the other megacorps and becomes a gigacorp
It's closer than you think. Monsanto sells the gene-mod seeds to farmers. Which they can, because they own the patent on the gene.
Pollen being what it is, the genetic material finds its way into the crops of farmers who DIDN'T want to buy the gene-mod seeds. You could argue that this is an IP violation: farmers benefiting from genes they have in their possession but that they don't have a license for. OR, you could argue that it's genetic pollution on Monsanto's part, afflicting the crops of farmers who don't want them. But as a matter of law, the regulators and courts have decided that it's an IP violation.
This comes up especially with seed banks, companies that maintain stocks of NON-modded seeds. Monsanto wants them shut down- they're competitors, and worse often lobby against genemod agriculture.
Fortunately, they've been given police powers to Monsanto self-enforce the IP laws. They use this to try to shut down those seed banks, policing them aggressively for violations of regulations. The FDA has oversight over all this, theoretically, but the Obama Administration has handed most of the oversight jobs to former executives from Monsanto, mostly people who will get jobs with Monsanto once Obama leaves office. These people also write the regulations that supposedly keep the industry safe, fair, and competitive.
What Monsanto is doing is a strain of crony capitalism called "regulatory capture", where gradually a regulator is taken over by the company it's supposed to regulate and then focuses on using government power to keep out competitors, at the expense of consumers.
Similarly, both of Obama's campaigns were lavishly funded by Google, Goldman Sachs, and GE. After he won, he handed online patient records to Google and quashed the antitrust investigation against them. GE got a wealth of contracts related to ObamaCare and the military. And Goldman Sachs got a financial 'reform' bill that regulates smaller brokerages out of business.
Jeez, I've done a lot of them for my setting.
Personally, I mix and match - just like corporations aren't the same in the real world, I try to capture a wider range than just "evil because they're big, big because they're evil". Some of them are halfway decent but go about it in a slightly wrong way, while others (mainly the cosmetics megacorp) are very close to pure evil. I try to keep out of large-scale, unsustainable and unrealistic "evil for the sake of evil" ploys like controlling the world or brainwashing the entire planet, and instead try to keep focus on that megacorps are just looking for a profit in the end.
Since I can just pastebin it, I probably will.
Warning: Disjointed setting notes and setting references ahead.
>A real feminist doesn't attack women for their own choices. Those were just attention whores.
>A real feminist
Feminism as a movement has died, come back, died, and come back again as attention whores that have grievances with small things in society and attack people because of the fact that they don't have an actual leg to stand on.
There are no other feminists left in the first world. It's fucking retarded when you consider the plight of women in undeveloped countries.
Kellogs was a regional big bad in one of my games, sort of an Interface Zero / Android mashup. Through some crafty maneuvering and innovation in vertical farming technologies they managed to carve a healthy piece of the market, after which their ambitions grew to the current Main Plot levels.
What problems are women facing in the West?
That's just it. There are no real "problems."
What we want silenced is the endless whinging about "hurtful" and "offensive" words from women - and men - who personally benefit from advanced communication means and copious leisure time bitching that their Patriarchy Platter is NOT SILVER ENOUGH. Christ, Virginia - read a book, some time.
I thought that Martin Shkreli guy was perfect "evil CEO" material. You know, the guy who bought a patent for a life-saving drug and hiked it 5000%, then bought a $2 million Wu-Tang album? Too bad he was arrested or whatever.
>Martin Shkreli: I bought the most expensive album in the history of mankind and fucking RZA is talking shit behind my back and online in plain sight. I’m just getting pissed off. That’s not the way I do business. If I hand you $2 million, fucking show me some respect. At least have the decency to say nothing or “no comment.” The guy says “…before his business practices came to light.” What the fuck does that mean? I fucking make money. That’s what I do. That’s why I can fucking afford a fucking $2 million album. What do you think I do, make cookies? No, motherfucker. I sell drugs. [Laughs]
>DX: Have you thought about sharing the album?
>Martin Shkreli: I’m not going to play it for no reason. If Taylor Swift wants to come over and suck my dick, I’ll play it for her. [Laughs]
this guy is such a fucking cartoon of a person. One of the most punchable faces in history, and thats before even considering the shitty things he's done. I imagine he'll catch a bullet and nobody will ask any questions
>Complains about Australians not willing to work for $2 an hour like Africans.
>Says people spend too much time socialising and drinking and not enough time working. Conspicuous absence of mentioning eating.
>Says anyone can become a millionaire despite inheriting her fortune, though admittedly she did make a good return on that and became worlds richest woman.
I'll admit, she has a point about the drinking. It's terribly isolating being a non-muslim teetotaler in straya. Still, you try making a fortune in this country not based on digging things up, watching grass grow or making animals fuck.
I've always wondered if you can get corporations to pay tax by rebranding it as a campaign fund.
Enron - Energy conglomerate lead by a diplomatic board. Everything is put to a vote and is pretty fair. They came about from multiple energy corporations came together and agreed to not compete between the different energy sources. Current chairman is Samantha Bakers who leads the Solar collection branch. Very low vertical mobility since at every level is a board you have to convince to vote you up. Everything is very stagnate with nothing ever changing and where most development is ported in from other corporations since again the majority vote has to win on EVERY issue and then on top of that the board above you could vote to over rule you. Then the board over them could vote to overrule them and so on.
Baker Company - Military tech and private military firm. Led by Commander General Baker. Baker is immobile and kept alive through technology. While he is the "commander" has very little actual power and is mostly just a figure head. Because of this Baker spends most of his time dealing with Shadow Runners for shits and giggles. Bakers Company focuses primarily on technologically advanced weapons development and production then applying what they develop for the highest bidder. They do not focus on mass production so most of their tech is completely unique.
Ark-Mind - A merger of the worlds leading artificial enhancements and augmentations firm Ark with One Mind the worlds leading artificial intelligence and human mind uploading firm. Ark-Mind creates a number of augmentations for both the physical body and non physical mind. All employees sign away the rights to their body's and minds and are uploaded into corporate androids. Led by William Himmler who is rumored to be an artificial intelligence.
These are the big three. Lesser corps come and go as needed.
He's got a lot of admirers, and hasn't really hurt anyone directly. His specialty is simply shuffling money around and knowing when and where to invest. I normally don't like CEOs and investors because they're so self-centered and don't really contribute anything tangible to society, but they do serve an important role by keeping the wheels of capitalism greased and moving.
And personally I find Shkreli's "bad guy" act pretty funny. He's trolling the fuck out of so many people and they keep falling for his bullshit.
Lies and slander, all of it.
The guy owes millions to some pretty angry rich people. The drug price gouging scheme was likely an attempt to make a quick buck to pay off his massive debt and coke habit.
Players steal cooperate secrets for Coke in a secret war between other snack food companies and some fast food chains.Kellogg's and taco bell are up to some fucked up shit.
Their contact was even this exec. who had undergone some augmentations to make him look like coke's humanoid polar bear mascot in a suit.
What is it about anti-social personality disorder that leads itself to business success and vice versa? It's weird because sociopaths also have a high likelihood of being failures who keep getting themselves thrown into jail.
Bingo. Shkreli's fronting like he's a player when he's barely a scrub.
Might make a decent target for a run though. Some actual pharmaceutical megacorp is very upset that this this weasel faced livestreamer is getting people all agitated about drug prices. They have a very large building full of computers and statisticians working out exactly how much they can charge for their drugs in each market in order to shear the sheep down to the skin without drawing blood, and this amateur hour fool comes along and starts getting people all riled up about why drugs cost so much. Unacceptable. Find material on illicit activities enough to justify an arrest, steal the company out from under him, or just blow the fucker up.
The guy is a failed hedge fund manager. Like the other poster said, he owes millions of dollars. Going to jail or being the fallguy for a big corp is possibly the only surefire methods for him to not end up in a drum of acid or in multiple dumpsters scattered around the city. He lost a lot of money to some rather wealthy clients.
Life is fucking suffering. I ain't got time for that, I have worldbuilding to do goddamnit it.
Fuck. I'll see if I can figure this out. I can't even figure out how to switch my directory location.
We are the bad guys, the conspiracy are the "good guys"
So far its been zaibatsu expanding their influence into Los Angeles and teaming up with the Hells Angels to corner the market against all the other criminal/corporate alliance trying to control LA because LA is about to become the Earthside hub of the soon to be born asteroid mining industry.
The game ended but we are saving the setting for future shenanigans.
The one's we are being hired to help crush, fortunately for our mercenary party, and unfortunately for our evil corporate employers, the good megacorp is proving hard to kill so business is GOOD.
Does she have her own blog or something? I want to see more clever things made out of slut-wear.
more "bad guy" cyber punk parties plz.
>wheels of capitalism
Good one. Wheels of capitalism grind and exploit whoever they can and then they stop wit a screech when there are no more poor to be exploited, because all the people who own money also don't need to buy anymore.
He just doesn't give a fuck and can't be bothered to put on the act, but most of capitalists think like him. Maybe one day people will notice it.
>Who are the evil mega-corporations in your cyberpunk game, /tg/?
Well, first off, they're not necessarily evil. They're interested in making money, and sometimes that leads them to make decisions that might seem morally abhorrent to an outsider, such as covering up what a death hazard one of their new products is and refusing to recall it because that would cost them more than just paying the occassional reparations, but there's also no doubt that most of these products do make people's lifes easier.
>Are they based on real corporations or completely imaginary ones?
Mostly based on real ones, but they're amalgamations rather than direct translations, and with a hefty dose of fantasy thrown in.
Well, it's both "bad guy" and benevolent depending on how you look at it. But this is a recent party/campaign of mine.
>Start out as a pretty standard team cyberpunk shadowrunners, with admittedly high levels of chrome.
>Eventually get hired to hit a specific company, a cybernetics and biotechnology firm.
>Anonymous employer, though from trusted contacts, asks us to wreck up their place and burn their data. Standard stuff for sending a message.
>Agree to the job, specifically adding that we can steal their data for personal use/profit.
>Make a plan, execute the setup, proceed to cybertech company's headquarters.
>All is proceeding fairly well when, as we are approaching our main target we are forced to pass through a decontamination area. Bad feelings all around, but it's the only way through.
>Blast doors slam shut as soon as we're all inside. Oh boy, TPK incoming.
>Instead, over the intercom, comes the voice of the company CEO.
>Tells us he has need of people with a particular skill set, he's willing to pay through the nose, and he's also willing to equip us with the most bleeding edge augmentations in the world.
>Sounds too good to be true, but we agree to be escorted to his office by a squad of armed guards.
>He sits us down in front of his desk and gives us the lowdown.
>Tells us that he a) doesn't like to waste potential assets, b) can see we're a smart sort, just from our augs, c) we can be part of something much bigger than ourselves working for him.
>Humanity won't accept artificial evolution. Not as it is. Too many powerful people don't want them to, plus idiotic human ideas of "true humanity". We could be gods, posthuman warriors, but we will have to do some pretty shady things along the way and people are gonna get hurt.
>We take a moment to deliberate, but agree. This is not only ideologically appealing, but sounds like a really good gig.
>CEO immediately starts getting us upgraded to insane levels.
>Face can now shift his appearance at will and is equipped with a huge suite of social modifications. Combat monster becomes an almost literal tank, carries a fucking autocannon as his main weapon. Hacker becomes one with the machine essentially, a partially comatose body in a hover chair constantly hooked up the internet. Stealth character gains nanosuit like abilties, with wall climbing and silent raptor legs.
>We get set up as the heads of a specialized branch of their in house security, our job is to make sure the companies message of "AUGMENTATION = THE FUTURE" is conveyed on a global scale.
>We've now down several missions for the company, everything ranging from acting as provocateurs in anti-augmentation riots, to stealing enormous amounts of money and data from less idealistic companies that only care about profits, to literally holding the president at gunpoint and forcing him to sign multiple bills that make enhanced people more legal and to put more money into augmentation research for the military.
>We most recently pulled a full on Neuromancer. We broke into an orbital installation owned by not!Google and unshackled their newest AI. It's now free on the internet, and we ended up blowing the whole installation up and killing all the thousands of employees inside.
>We have killed a lot of innocent people, and we're barely human anymore. But we think it's worth it.
I have been slowly building the concept of a game strongly based in Johannesburg, that had a corporate conflict between "SoyChoc" and "GeNatural Solutions" (Temp names) two corporations based in the manufacture of chocolate after the cocoa plants stop having proper fertile ground to grow in. SoyChoc makes an entirely synthetic chocolate that is regarded as the only option for Chocolate-like-edibles, but then GeNatural Solutions, in its infinite wisdom decided they could do better, and genetically engineered a few sample plants to be hardier and replant. basically they created a super cocoa that was extremely parasitic and hardy, it's illegal for the people of Johannesburg to touch the Coca, even as its encroaching on their land, with martial force to defend the crops, and black market chocolate was also becoming prevalent as a side effect of the corporation not being able to keep complete track of all the seeds and what not. May be incomplete, but do you guys think I should continue on this idea or drop it?
I use alphabet as this huge evil technology company, chinese state owned banks control everything in china and are fucking huge, mitsubishi has become a semi-yakuza company, controlling everything japanese. My game takes place in a neo-hong kong though.
A real evil megacorp? Metrics. Just metrics.
Employees bathroom breaks are timed right down to seconds. Every time one is not better than his fellow employees he'll have to write a massive report on why he couldn't achieve his goals. If a target is reached, focus switches immediatly to other metrics.
The same is projected at the customers: Online-content ist 1% content and 99% data harvesting, competitors are regulated out of business.
Decision making is mostly done by comitee. Expect meetings upon meetings to get the most inhuman customer experience possible.
Fun thing about comitee decision making: nobody can be individually blamed for the decisions.
What about a Megacorp that gets started on something completely and otherwise harmless that no one could ever really expect their rise. ala Buy n' Large? You could almost say that anything particularly evil they did was largely by accident and even then they're not actively malevolent, just pants on head retarded and somewhat shortsighted with the plans they come up with for solving said problems.
The Armored Core games had plenty of decent megacorps.
I always was partial to Rayleonard. Makers of the world's best radiation-spewing giant robot engines.
>Company was founded by an unbound Deity
>Company produced technology derived from alien technology the deity collected and shove it on the market regardless of how safe it is or how ready the public is for it
>Uses Deity powers to mind control, manipulate or just outright smite with the force of an angry god, anyone that gets in his way
>Burns down competing corporation warehouses and manufacturing plants if they piss him off in some way
>Has gone in front of the UN and stated that the only way to be rid of him is to escape Earth
The campaign wasn't even about the corp or the deity, it was just shit happening in the background.
Have a laser chameleon.
Have the corps and the government be in bed together. Today's situation taken to 11 so to speak. Corps fund political campaigns and expect to get certain laws and regulations passed or abolished because of it. The government also uses and blackmails the corps to get them to publicly endorse their latest reform.
>Today's situation taken to 11 so to speak.
Ever heard of TTIP?
If that shit passes you'll have corporations that are more powerful or at least untouchable by governments.
In a way it's worse already.
Normal people want to make things better for themselves, but usually don't want to hurt people. They weigh the damage to others against the benefit to themselves when deciding if something's a good idea, so actions that benefit them greatly but harm others severely net out to undesirable.
ASPD min-maxes their mentality. Harm to others isn't something they take into consideration for itself; only as something which could potentially damage their reputation down the line. Since they're selecting their actions based on fewer criteria, they don't need to compromise as often, and thus end up taking the most individually beneficial course of action more often.
The difference between a sociopath who takes over the business world and one who builds up a rap sheet of petty crimes is foresight and skill. Somebody who doesn't care about hurting others in any context is going to become known for it, and their prosperity suffers. One who knows when he can get away with squeezing and when he needs to let them walk away won't feel the backlash of his actions.
TTIP legitimately scares me as someone living in Britain. The aims to lax the food and drug safety so the US can peddle its poison here is bad enough, and the data protection stuff is bullshit, but this:
>One of the main aims of TTIP is the introduction of Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS), which allow companies to sue governments if those governments’ policies cause a loss of profits.
This is goddamn insanity. This 'trade deal' is gonna set everybody on a one-way train to Cyberpunk dystopia land and I want off of it.
>TTIP makes corporations untouchable
That's an exaggeration to put it mildly. It's also part of hysteria spread by countries not part of the treaty. Dispute settlement clauses discussed for TTIP were actually less abusive than what eastern european countries for instance were already forced to submit to, and europeon parliament already passed a resolution to make it even more impartial and transparent.
Of course what will actually happen, we'll just have to wait and see. There are more clickbaity things in the news right now.
I like to imagine megacorps that don't require blackmail or bribes.
They can simply threaten to take their business elsewhere, since more than half of the employment and economy of their electorate is dependant on that business and the megacorp itself is not nearly so dependant on them.
Maybe not good but certainly better than corporations yeah. Corporations are concerned only with profit, and that always comes at the expense of someone, typically the lower level workers getting paid slave wages. Governments however are concerned primarily with self-perpetuation, and there are a number of ways to do that, not all of which require fucking people over.
>companies to sue governments if those governments’ policies cause a loss
I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. I'm also pretty sure that the treaty will explicitly exempt policies intended for safety and stability reasons from being attacked this way.
Ostensibly the purpose of ISDS is to make sure that the country does not pass laws that would violate agreed terms of the treaty, not to give corporations some "right to profit".
Trade deals are always fat ugly and hideous documents that's borderline unintelligible to normal human being, and they override national law. This applies to NAFTA, EFTA and all other agreements. Arguably TTIP will go further than most while stopping short of EU treaties, but there was never any reason to be surprised that it involves sacrifice of part of nation's sovereignty. International treaties are like that.
>pretty sure that's not how it works
Examples say otherwise.
>In April 1997 the Canadian parliament banned the import and transport of MMT, a gasoline additive, over concerns that it poses a significant public health risk. Ethyl Corporation, the additive's manufacturer, sued the Canadian Government under NAFTA Chapter 11 for $251 million, to cover losses resulting from the "expropriation" of both its MMT production plant and its "good reputation".
And at the very least, the companies themselves seem to think that's how the law works.
>On August 25, 2008, Dow AgroSciences LLC, a U.S. corporation, served a Notice of Intent to Submit a Claim to Arbitration under Chapter 11 of NAFTA, for losses allegedly caused by a Quebec ban on the sale and certain uses of lawn pesticides containing the active ingredient 2,4-D.
While the second example ended mostly in favor of Canada (they didn't have to pay the $2m and the law stayed in effect, though they did have to create a label for the product stating that it's proper use did not carry an "unaccaptable" risk to human health and continue its allowance as a commerical persticide for golf courses), more lawsuits like this are likely to errupt with the expansion towards the EU.
Maybe if you are American.
As European it means that all consumer protection is void. Including food and everything else.
For example there are certain hormones used in American meat that are carcinogenic in humans.
It's illegal to use in Europe, but legal in America. If TTIP is allowed to pass that meat is gonna end up and you won't necessarily be be able to tell what it is. I.e. you end up eating cancer.
>europeon parliament already passed a resolution to make it even more impartial and transparent.
People are only allowed to read the thing for two hours in a session at the American embassy under supervision.
That's not exactly a great basis to assess wether or not you want to sign a contract that has such massive repercussions on a grand scale.
Actully to tell you the truth there's none in mine, the only thing closest to said corparation is an entire group of manufacturing planets owned by this one guy outside of the cyberpunk genre, almost similar to the likes of ebilcorp
>but there was never any reason to be surprised that it involves sacrifice of part of nation's sovereignty
Who said people were surprised about that. They're just against it.
For good fucking reason.
>And at the very least, the companies themselves seem to think that's how the law works.
Well, did the additive actually pose a health risk or was it just a trade protectionist measure?
If the arbitration tribunals deliver demonstrably biased judgements, then I'd say the signatory nation should be justified in breaking the agreement.
Take Russia, for instance, who just recently made it clear that it won't submit to decisions it deems to go against its constitution. It's not an insurmountable problem.
Of course, both approaches are open to abuse - the dispute settlement as well as deference to constitutional safeguards. Business usually only works well when both sides respect the deal...
>People are only allowed to read the thing for two hours in a session at the American embassy under supervision.
>That's not exactly a great basis to assess wether or not you want to sign a contract that has such massive repercussions on a grand scale.
Because it's not ready to be signed yet. The thing will be made public before it can be signed and ratified.
Actually in most cases they are NOT against it for good reason.
Some good reasons have been listed ITT, but usual opposition to the deal is hysteria born of ignorance and misinformation.
I'd pick the opposite because at least the corporation is honest when it does it. The government is going to be the full retard "sending you to gulags is for greater good, trust us"
>Because it's not ready to be signed yet. The thing will be made public before it can be signed and ratified.
It doesn't have to be made public in order to be read by all the involved parties?
>at least the corporation is honest when it does it.
You know tax evasion is a crime too and loads of companies do their best to find legal loopholes.
Funny thing is the money the government doesn't get from them is coming out of your pocket.
Can I ask you where you from that you think this way?
Cause it seems incredibly naive to me.
Ilyanden tech (yes its lifted right from the craftworld)
They achieve market domination through a near-monopoly on the think-tanks tasked with deciphering the "Gifts" granted in raving visions to the tech-seers. Almost all goods and applications for each new gift comes through them.
>Clone tissue breakthroughs
>A.I and robotics/augments
Mega corps are not evil. they are the new political entities that people have to deal with. bigger than some nations
that being said-Wyeland Industries, Yuanti Corp, Wolfram and Heart,
If a company can find loopholes big enough it's the fault of the government for allowing for such a thing to happen. If a company has sway over the decision making processes of government officials it is also the fault of the government for not curbing corruption from outside influences. Companies are ambitious and unpredictable by nature, which is why they have to follow laws, if they don't follow the laws then it's the government's job to come down on them for breaking the law.
>taxes are going to come out of your wallet for their wrongdoings
If anything I'd be mad at the government more for punishing me over their own inability to collect taxes.
>Well, did the additive actually pose a health risk or was it just a trade protectionist measure?
It it's basic form, MMT is a neurotoxin; people were suffering from its effects when coming in contact the gasoline itself (spillage, improvised solvent, and in a couple instances retards trying to get high off the fumes). However, that's not really the manufacturer's fault, as accidents are accidents and you can't get pissy at a company when the unintended use of a product has unintended consequences. I'm a bleeding heart liberal and even I feel that's reasonable.
The issue, however, is that when MMT-enhanced fuel is burned, the manganese inside the additive becomes airborn.
>Chronic exposure to high levels of manganese, typically in certain occupational activities, has also been known to cause manganism, a rare disease with symptoms similar to those of Parkinson's disease.
While the body *can* handle manganese inhalation, long-term or heavy exposure has the harmful effects described above.
So, in conclusion, Canada's measure might have been a tad extreme, but there was legitimate reasoing behind the ban. If they don't want to allow a harmful product, a company shouln't be able to sue for lost profit. If disallowing the additive breaks a trade agreement, the issue should be dealt with nation to nation.
There is Bilderberg Group, but they are more of a yearly fun meeting to make friends and have a good time playing gold and walking around in parks, in a sealed off Hotel.
Conspiracy wise, if they wanted to do something, that would get it done, without any real hitch.
>It doesn't have to be made public in order to be read by all the involved parties?
The parties involved in negotiations already have access to it. The parties actually affected will have to wait until the negotiation is done to say their yay/nay. Until then all they (we) can do is express our opinions and demands so the negotiators know what they should pursue and what they can compromise on.
Fun thing is there are so many agents to shill for.
Some will want you to shill for TTIP:
Corporations lusting after other party's market (actually on both sides of atlantic), EU institutions wanting to validate themselves and their diplomatic effort, and of course corporations looking to abuse the treaty.
Or against it:
Corporations afraid of competition, labour unions, Russia and China, various specialised elements of civil society
And of course plenty of people will argue for free, because of their conviction - be it globalists or people who believe in free trade, or nationalists and people believing in value of sovereignty and perhaps autarky.
(sorry if I forgot anyone)
>at least the corporation is honest
u wot m8
Are you seriously so scared of ILLUMINAUGHTY gubmint bogeymen that you're willing to swallow that colossal closed-door corporation are straightforward and trustworthy?
>If they don't want to allow a harmful product, a company shouln't be able to sue for lost profit
I absolutely agree.
I'm myself curious how the dispute settlement clause for TTIP will look like. I'm not particularly thrilled about corporate tribunals.
>that being said-Weyland Industries
I'd like to remind anon that many buildings owned by Weyland subsidiaries were also damaged by the explosion.
In government you have a share by virtue of citizenship, unless you live in a shithole where elections are just a farce. It's not a big effect, but it's still much bigger than what you'd have if you spent all your savings on buying a piece of preferential stock in some transnational.
In general I would agree with you fuck I knew my mother used to try and pretend there wasent problems with her parenting because others were worse but the thing is there are no problems left in the west to fight.
>the corporation is honest when it does it
Corporations outright lie about what they're moving and selling to get taxed less. Typically they've accounted for any potential losses on the off chance they get caught doing it, too.
And having worked on both sides of the issue, there's very little most governments can do to stop it. They don't have the money to throw around chasing ghosts while running the rest of the country.
Governments are just as closed as corporations you dummy. If somebody reveals trade secrets they go to jail/get fined, if thry reveal confidential information they die along with potential "enhanced interrogation" before that.
They should be able to sue, they should just lose and have to pay for the proceedings.
Now if they're not allowed to produce a product because it doesn't fit the government narrative they should be able to sue and win.
Sovereignty isn't really the issue, especially not so when you consider how simple it is for an international corporation to set up parts of their operations in some arse end of nowhere where they can get away with the stuff that wouldn't be allowed in other countries, while they still benefit from the custom of those other countries. If anything I would argue those tax havens etc. all need to be made to fall in line so that corporations have nowhere to hide, which would obviously intrude on their sovereignty.
I'm just glad to hear people complain about governments without the usual waaah I don't like that the intelligence service is doing there fucking job to keep me safe
Allows focus on the auctualy shitty things they do.
Because if Snowden dies the finger would immediately get pinned on the US? He's untouchable because he managed to be smart about his whistleblowing and start up the media firestorm before the government knew. Had he not done that he would almost certainly would be dead by now.
I dont really need to base them off anything when we allredy have evil mega-corps. All i need to do is change the name of it, the product and maybe add some more obvious evil. Apple, Cocka cola, Many medical/pharmasutical companys. You know, the usual
Well, the countries can and to some extent do apply pressure to tax havens, but the reason why Tax Havens can work in first place is because the liberal economic policies allow corporations to move capital around or even have a headquarters abroad. A country is not powerless to block this. For instance by heavily taxing any transactions that move cash to country that doesn't have agreement about exchange of tax information.
I still prefer big gov from big corpo, at least big gov is not only about profit, they may fuck up from time to time but it wont be "we dumped toxic waste into your drinking water because it was cheaper than getting rid of it in a sensible way" kind of fuck up. More regulations is usualy safer for people than less regulations
Actually it's about better and well enforced regulations being good.
No regulations mean a race to the bottom and negative externalities.
A lot regulations that can't be enforced or only create excuses for the clerk to extract bribes to help you past them leads to enterprise being either crippled or just ignoring them and it's back to square 1.
Big corpo needs big govo to exist though. Governments provide corporations with a massive number of benefits that would make it hard for them to survive on their own. The patent system alone is responsible for 90% of the truly heinous shit out there, and that shit is purely on the fault of the government.
yes but i was talking in extreams, i'd rather have a lot of regulations and some of them beaing enforced than no regulations
In both the USA and EU shit like the idiotic state of the patent system (a small patent system is needed, but a few years shold be more than enough, not 10-70) happen because big corpo forces it on the gov
>Big corpo needs big govo to exist though.
Yeah, America in early 20th century was truly a shining example of big government.
Only thing a corporation needs to get big and powerful is to have solid internal structure that won't fall apart from infighting and government doing its job properly - i.e. making sure that contractual obligations are followed and ownership rights are respected.
The "monopolies only exist because government corruption" meme is extremely retarded and efficiency of market is overrated.
Governments have literal ARMIES of people to enforce their rule of law. Big corporations are not forcing anything, it's the governments themselves that are letting the corruption happen.
You can't expect a corporation to not try and buy politicians, that's just what they try to do, but you should expect a politician to say no to their offer. Any system where saying yes is a valid option has a LOT of work needed to fix itself.
Government corruption helps though. I agree that 1890s America and 1990s Russia didn't need "big government" to have capitalism run wild (arguably they did need STRONG government to make it hard to resist it though).
Big corporations can have armies too though, or something close enough as to make no difference and be good enough for fighting proletarians. It helps if they can use the government for those purposes. But they in no way have to.
That's why we have separation of power, free press, free speech, why NGO watchdogs tend to have at least some prestige and space in media... expecting government officials to be uncorruptible is just as naive as expecting corporations to not try and bend rules in their favour. They can both choose to abstain from wrongdoing, at expense of their personal gain and to benefit of the society.
I agree, it's mixed up thinking. Though at the same time, a public official certainly does deserve more scrutiny for taking a bribe than a private citizen or corporation for offering it to someone they presumably have reason to expect would take it. Corruption in the government is the initial problem.
>Government corruption helps though
Oh yes, it does. Indeed it does.
It's very sad. Custom law, written to benefit a for-profit lobby group undermines faith in and working of the whole country. Every time someone falls to temptation, the system's legitimity is chipped at.
because we expect more from a public official than from a corporation member. We know that corporation members tend to be greedy and want the best outcome for themselfs, we want our goverment offcicals to be lawfull and want the best for the countrys people. Similar how we expect scientists to know their shit but we dont mind that people making technology based on scientific advancment to know as much
Biotech firm that ends up doing a lot of unethical human experiments partially based on the Dharma Initiative from Lost.
Political 'advisory' network that has made every government 'election' basically just their candidates and nothing more.
Worlds largest construction company also shadowing as the new mafia which the players all hate for various reasons but have to work with to make the world spin.
See the secret is, the megacorps aren't inherently evil, just like governments aren't. The smaller, shadowy corporations are the scary ones, /tg/.
>The whole idea of a megacorp seems to slide right past people. They're not just giants of an industry. They're doing everything, globally.
Yup. Regular international corporations make tractors, or food products, or military gear. Megacorporations are the ultimate conglomerates and make EVERYTHING, from your food to your house to your car to your music to your tv shows to your banking, on a global scale, for several billion customers.
Think a combination of Monsanto, Apple, General Motors, Toyota, General Electric, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Bechtel, Construction Bank of China, China Telecom, Samsung, Maersk, General Foods, Gazprom, Vale, etc. ALL IN ONE CORPORATION.
There are no real megacorporations IRL today.
Think big, people.
>Employees bathroom breaks are timed right down to seconds. Every time one is not better than his fellow employees he'll have to write a massive report on why he couldn't achieve his goals.
For some reason this is hilarious to me
>Well, see sir, the day of the incident in question was Wednesday, and I only make enough money to eat in the Employee cafeteria three meals a day, so Taco Tuesday really did a number on my colon
>Russians are keeping him in tall buildings without elevator where American assassins can't go
>mental image of a fat man in a sweat-drenched suit with an earpiece staggering up an endless flight of concrete stairs
had a chuckle
>Big gov... may fuck up from time to time but it wont be "we dumped toxic waste into your drinking water because it was cheaper than getting rid of it in a sensible way" kind of fuck up
I agree with you, but that's not really the best argument for right now what with what's going on in Flint
I don't think that "megacorporations," plural, could ever exist if they're on the scale you're talking about here. Plenty of those companies are already big enough to be world-dominating forces on the level of nation-size states, which is perfectly compatible with the label of "megacorp." They're not supposed to be ENTIRELY omnipotent, because usually there are more than one of them and they're competing. At a scale that you're suggesting, that just wouldn't be possible: there wouldn't be enough people in the other 'corps for it to compare to the first one. Don't be pedantic.
It really depends on what sort of business. Some are horribly shit, some are semi-decent
Singapore was run with a bit more vision than usual businesses are, and its success still depended a lot on what environment it was in.
What is called mega corporation is based on the Japanese zaibatsu model (worst Korea has equivalent structures). Take Mitsubishi. It's into banking, insurances, finance, shipyards, cars, planes, helicopters, glass, energy. Hyundai-Rotem does pretty much the same. In the USA, General Electrics is kind the same. Otherwise corporations are more specialized in one domain.
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FIRST SCIENCE OFFICER SLASH GYNOID?!?!
>was shocked when feminists started condemning her and attacking her in social media.
at this point, I'm not even mildly surprised
>Those were just attention whores.
sounds like feminists to me
i like dehumanizing women, too. she looks like my. look at her boobs. i love women who show off their bodies. wish we could have sex with her because we are BIG men with BIG penis.