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Why is science fantasy the greatest genre?
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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

Thread replies: 64
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Why is science fantasy the greatest genre?
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>>44952629
Why is your opinion so shit?
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>>44952629
>genre fiction
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>>44952629
Because The Book of the New Sun is the greatest novel.
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>>44952629

That's not wuxia.
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Because you can literally do anything
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>>44953283
No reason you can't have both.
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>>44953316
That's what makes it awful. Art is based on constraints.
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>>44953473
What the fuck does that even MEAN?
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>>44953505
Limitations encourage creativity or something like that. First heard it in a class about classic poetry and all its myriad rules.
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Because you can theoretically have just about anything happen.

Only problem I have is that it's often full of handwavium, and it's not always an easy mix to swallow.
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Science fantasy isn't. That weird space between scifi and fantasy is. That unexplained and nebulous place.
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>>44953473
You don't understand anon. It comes with no pre packaged constraints. You get to choose the constraints yourself. Also limitations aren't what you think they are
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It is only the best when written well
Good examples come in the form of Xam'd/FMA and some of the elder scrolls expanded universe, Where the fantasy is integrated into the science and technology seen throughout the setting.
Bad examples come from the Shannara setting and the Star Wars expanded universe (both canon and non canon), and Shadowrun, where the fantasy is kept exclusive from if not directly opposing the science and technology of the setting.

What really makes it work well is not that literally anything can happen as some here have stated, but rather that the most consistently well thought fantasy stories are ones where the author has carefully crafted a functional science out of their fantasy world, and then expanded on the idea of what advancement in the technology based on that science would look like. Science Fantasy can, in fact, be the very best, but you need to be thinking about what you're doing, not just throwing everything into a blender and hoping it comes out ok. Effort is required to make anything good.
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>>44952629
Because sufficient advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, and that means you have DOUBLE the magic when there's actual magic as well!
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Because you don't have to think about anything anymore. It just works because psicrystals.
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>>44952629
Because only people who know how to have fun see any potential in it. All the snide shitlord contrarians dismiss it as beneath them because it doesn't match whatever autistic security blanket they cling to.
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>>44952667
>I don't read for enjoyment, I read to feel duperior to others.
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>>44953326
I like you
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>>44952629
It isn't. It's sci-fi for those too ignorant to suffer actual sci-fi.
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>>44952667
The fact that the only difference between great literature and genre fiction is that the scholars are 200 years behind the times makes me sad.

In 600 years, you dumbasses will think the novelization of star wars is classic literature.
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>>44952629
Because rocketmen with swords riding dinosaurs and saving green titted space ladies is the good old days of fantasy.
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>>44953283
>>44953326
>>44955683
>Two monks dueling amid an asteroid field
>There is no air except for the small airskin pouch at each of their waists. They only allow themselves tiny sips of air once an hour.
>During their battle, they fling gigantic rocks and set traps among the constantly shifting environment.
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I like Ted Chiang's stuff, where the fantasy is the science.
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>>44955683
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>>44955936
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>>44955946
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>>44955960
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>>44955979
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>>44956003
End of dump
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>>44954555

Care to explain why you think Shannara is a bad example?
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>>44956013
Spelljammer is more Space fantasy than Science fantasy
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>>44955827
But the vast majority of sci-fi (and certainly, the most popular sci-fi) is already practically science fantasy, with only a few exceptions actually maintaining consistent scientific accuracy and "realism."
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>>44955847
Science fiction is a genre that already stretches back hundreds of years. At most, 0.1% of the works falling under this genre produced by the authors of these time frames were good enough to be documented as "literature." Sci-fi and fantasy are almost uniformly of no literary worth, and the vast majority of works are forgotten 30 years down the line as befits the schlock they are. I'm not saying that they can't be entertaining, but to make a statement like
>In 600 years, you dumbasses will think the novelization of star wars is classic literature.
is just presumptuous idiocy.
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>>44955888
I have a bit of a boner right now.
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>>44952629
It's just fantasy.
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>>44956233
How does this not apply to every genre under the sun?
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>>44956014
While I must admit I misspoke in implying that the Shennara series is poorly written, while a bit bland it is otherwise an entirely alright piece of fantasy, what I mean to say that it is a bad example of Science Fantasy specifically. Every instance in which it attempts to convey the idea that the narrative takes place on a ruined future earth feels forced, with the scifi elements being rare (save the interquel series) and in no way integrated into the fantasy aspects of the setting. To be entirely honest, the after earth aspects of the series felt almost entirely as an afterthought, and the narratives presented within maybe could have benefited their removal. While the introduction of guns later on makes for the setup of interesting narrative situations in which individuals of a functionally exclusively fantasy world must deal with technologies that would have no good grounds to do so, tossing guns into fantasyland does not itself make for well conceived science fantasy. Good science fantasy has to have the scifi aspects and the fantasy aspects working together in tandem that makes sense in context, and this is simply not something the Shennara series manages well. Admittedly, the vast majority of good examples for science fantasy I am most familiar with come from things other than literature, so my personal biases towards forms of media that accomplish the mixture well may be skewing my observations with regards to the shennara series, but I do not think I am in the wrong with my statements on what it takes to make science fantasy function well.
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>>44956407
Hence >>44952667 dumbass
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>>44953530
>or something like that. First heard it in a class about classic poetry and all its myriad rules.

tldr you don't know what you're talking about.
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>>44956743
how does this not apply to non-genre fiction?
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>>44956760

It's called a 'limited palette', and most great artists use it.
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>>44952629
It allows too much asspull to be that great.
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>>44953530
Well yeah, but it can also breed stagnation and derivativeness. That's how we get the scores and scores of bog standard fantasy settings, where nothing is changed because people are just painting by the numbers. One can't transgress without limitations, but that doesn't help if one isn't actually planning to
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"Science Fantasy" is basically what He-Man and the Masters of the Universe is
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>>44956233
While I agree with you, 90% of everything is shit anyways. You're on a board that doesn't judge literature by quality, but by genre. Science fiction/fantasy reigns supreme on /tg/ so plenty of terrible works from those genres are well liked making the other genres "feel" superior just because they're not discussed on here.
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>>44956233
>Muh literature
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>>44955960
>dem hips.
Unf
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>>44953473
>Art is based on constraints.
Yes. That does not mean it's based on EVERYONE ELSE'S constraints. Every piece of art has its own constraints to use.

The same is true with genre fiction. A good piece of fantasy literature creates a world that is self-consistent. Self-consistency is a restraint. But what constitutes self-consistency for one book may be different for another.
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>>44956233
>muh good writing
>muh literary value
>muh taste
Not even /a/ is that far up their own ass.
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>>44957123
Fuck them, if the average Joe on the street can't name them then they aren't good artists.
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>>44961084
>Aristotle doesn't count as a famous philosopher because he's not a household name.
The fuck are you smoking?
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When it's done right, like in what >>44952840 mentioned, it truly is god-tier. But when it's done wrong, it's not just bad but horrible.
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>>44955960
>Allah have mercy, those curves.
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Not a single mention of Numenera in this entire thread.

I have never been more disappointed in you faggots than I am at this exact moment.
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>>44952629

I want to agree but every example of science fantasy I come up with is shit.
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Why is the art so shit, though?
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>>44957448
Yeah it is
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>>44962437
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>>44962466
>>44962437
yes
good
more
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>>44957037
Though the guy's being a dick about it, and it's not exactly clear, I think what he's trying to say, is that:
"Claiming that it's the genre that makes fiction great is stupid, you shouldn't give a shit what the genre is."

Can't say I agree it, but makes a certain amount of sense.

Although frankly 99% of Science Fiction in general has nothing to do with Science Fiction, so I'll kindly stick to saying that Science Fiction is worth reading when it actually fits the bill that everyone between Plato, Thomas Moore and Jules Verne established, and is about looking at the world through different lenses, with a new perspective, or exploring something outside of soceity's current view.
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>>44953326
Star Wars is pretty much this.
Thread replies: 64
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