So while Chaosium is still struggling with the 7e KS, apparently France has crowdfunded it's own edition, hiring competent artists like Pegasus. But judge for yourself.
Le livre du p'tit gros:
Le livre de la proie-à-en-devenir:
Malleus Monstrun Merdum:
And post some Mythos artwork.
Since it is worth bringing back from the former thread (thanks to each and everyone who contributed to save it from OP's faggotry, btw), here's the two official free soudtracks that were commisioned by the editor:
Speaking of free and not free soundtracks, any of you has the sense-impacts soundtrack? Not even having any means to listen to at least a part of it before paying 15$ for it is customer-unfriendly as all hell.
>France has crowdfunded it's own edition
I find this really jarring.
Moebius may be influential but he's not really a good source of inspiration to draw lovecraftian things.
However, you know which one of his close colleagues is a FUCKING GREAT source of inspo? Philippe Druillet. He constantly gets overshadowed by Bilal and Moebius even though he's easily as impressive if not more.
Randolph Carter knows that he's dreaming and is constantly described as a very experienced dreamer. He expects this shit to happen.
This is both wrong and a very clumsy and incomplete description of sublimity.
First off, Cthulhu is described as misshapen and grotesque more often than he is described as majestic (in fact it's mostly crazy buttfuck cultists who describe him as such)
Secondly the notion of sublimity is quite literally adjacent to that of monstrosity (as in shapelessness). It also involves magnitude (that's the correct technical term) of course, but not so much as a threat, than as something that oversteps the boundaries of human understanding, which is why it can also be applied to nice things.
Now, what we have, with this drawing, is a monster that looks cool, it looks dramatic, its proportions are a little weird and gorilla-like which makes it look quite massive, but it doesn't convey that notion of disproportionate mass like, say, a sperm whale would. A sperm whale is very simple in shape, but it's so grossly disproportionate that it still inspires awe and respect while also being really ugly. And I'm not really seeing that in this drawing.
this chart is complete bullshit that pays no mind to pre-established works. But, again, the Mythos isn't Star Wars lore so who gives a shit? you're not supposed to collect Great Old Ones like pokeymans.
alright, next I'm gonna dump some of my own stuff like I said I would
I think it's mostly because it's a mere sketch instead of a full blown artwork with background and context around the monster. Look at pic related. It is quite far from the misshapen, fat, bulbous canon of Lovecraft's own drawing, yet it most certainly conveys the awesome notions HPL tried to make the reader experience in his texts. You're simply demanding too much of that image, i'd rather wait and see if Musy made others of Cthulhu that would better fit your (perfectly reasonable) expectations.
Not on the same level as the Yith, or even the Elder Ones. We aren't too off from Ghouls, I suppose.
I mean, the term "Lovecraftian" only means something made up by, or inspired by, the works of HP Lovecraft. Humans are neither.
Because you consider this to be perfect and conveys that sense of impossible wonder?
At best it would be the naive drawing of some raving madman. Which it kinda is.
well, humans as a species inhabit the lovecraft universe just like all the other creatures of the mythos, and are genuinely terrifying if you think about it, if somewhat clueless
now for the miniatures concepts, which, again, were based on Therians so necessarily mostly symmetrical and not connected to the Mythos.
We're just arguing aesthetics.
Here you go
Not perfect but at least closer to what I have in mind than most depictions even if it's mostly just the head
>Looks kinda Warhammery
doesn't mean much, Warhammer has shitloads of different aesthetics now.
Currently it's just trying to look like WoW
Good! i spent a shitload of time on it. Really wanted it to look impressive and huge even if it ended up as a 10 cm-tall miniature without relying too much on scale elements.
>Secondly the notion of sublimity is quite literally adjacent to that of monstrosity (as in shapelessness). It also involves magnitude (that's the correct technical term) of course, but not so much as a threat, than as something that oversteps the boundaries of human understanding
>oversteps the boundaries of human understanding
Never quite believed this bit.
All things that effect us can be understood and comprehended. It is only when our ability to logic is taken from us are we unable to. And if that is what Cthulu is supposed to do in order to "make us lose our sanity" then i find that no more frightening that a gunshot to the head.
If it cannot be reasoned, it cannot exist in any way to harm us. But if it can harm us, then it can be understood, given enough observation.
However if, through observation, it is derived that the level of information necessary to extract to begin processing and categorizing the new and unfamiliar information is too much (sort of like trying to memorize a new game with a vast number of interconnecting mechanics), then i can understand how some could see that as "falling into madness". But even then it is not so.
anyway you see where I was going with this shit. That should be enough.
I felt like designers and artists focused too little on achieving alienness on a basic, texture level. So I spent most of my time perfecting the right kind of textures to convey sculptural ancientness, bloated organic life, and also decay to a degree, but without making it directly relatable to known earthly matters.
>massive, impressive and monstrusous
Well, i respect your opinion, but to me that looks fucking ridiculous, sorry. A rotten Zeppelin with tentacles and a big surprised eye. Wow. I'm pissing my pants here.
Lovecraft didn't grew up in the same highly visual world as we do, with countless depictions of Kaijus and monsters of all kinds. At some point you have to decide if you respect the word or the spirit of a concept. And the fat bloated toad would only appear as lame for most of us. See for example, the winged beasts of the Nazguls in Jackson's movie. Aren't they impressive and omminous ? They're serpentine and nasty and as believable as movie monsters can be. Do they respect the idea Tolkien had? Hell no, they would look like something between goddamn pterosaurs and featherless vultures if so. Now imagine how lame it would look to our blase eye if the Witch-King was riding pic fucking related at the Pelennor Fields.
In any case there is no good way to render the Old Ones in a static image in my opinion. The thing should shift and twist and change and strain our eyes like those old Magic Eyes book. With possible case of slight nausea. For all the limits inherents to trying to paint the indescribable, Muzy is doing a damn good job.
You have a charmingly naive faith in the powers of logic and scientific method.
Anyway what I meant wasn't that it's literally unaccountable for, it's that imagination (as far as it participates to understanding) cannot encompass it.
At least not the first time it's witnessed.
In fact I find it harder to believe that you've never experienced sublimity, than to believe that you don't understand what I'm talking about.
Muzy didn't do a good job precisely because we live in a more highly visual world than Lovecraft.
If he had presented that sketch to Lovecraft it would probably have freaked him out a bit more than with what Weird Tales illustrators do.
But now all I'm seeing is a kaiju ready to take on Godzilla. A good one, but not something grotesque and horrible.
And yeah, I think a rotten zeppelin with tentacles and a big eye is a very powerful image, even described in those terms with that sarcastic tone that removes nothing from it.
Just be honest: you don't give a shit about even trying to make Cthulhu fearsome you just want him to fight a Jaeger.
Glad it charms you. You seem easily charmed.
And you mis my point entirely. An entity liek Chthulu, if present in the existant realm, would be pick apart (figuratively) and analyzed thoroughly. There is no way that it can act or act upon anything in any way that defies the core fundamental understandings of nature or breaks the INFALLIBLE ultimate truth.
It can only exist in the realm of imagination with a heavy dose of the suspension of disbelief. Even then it is subject to the laws of logic. Laws it cannot escape in our reality.
Barlowe's design for them has always been my preferred look for them
those are awful renditions of a Mythos Ghoul
not a big fan of this Mi-Go design either, feels a little too terrestrial in appearance
well are they familiar with Baccano, cause you could run something based on that and introduce Mythos elements as the campaign goes on, and besides Cthulhu Mythos doesn't always mean doom and gloom(personally I find that angle overdone anyways), the Mythos is quite adequate at doing more conventional adventure, but then I feel most of the time trying to make horror work in a RPG context is more work than it's worth
I'm just picturing this thing being worshipped by the Engineers/Space Jockeys from Prometheus
yeah I agree, that's one of many things that's disillusioned me about the CoC rpg, personally I feel only things on Cthulhu's level should automatically make someone go insane(similarly just reading the Necronomicon and other Mythos texts and even performing magic ain't going to erode your sanity most of the time, although some of the things you have to do to make the nastier spells work might), and indeed I'd be tempted to leave that as merely something specific to him
It very much does escape a bunch of laws. If you're gonna take the concept of Cthulhu even remotely seriously to critique some of its aspects, you're gonna have to accept at least that. Also, do keep in mind that the only people who witnessed it directly were a bunch of sailors with very narrow minds who had just come across a city made of impossible angles and had been wandering it for hours, enduring the stench of rotten prehistoric fish and alien slime, after fighting off crazy cultists if memory serves. I'm pretty sure if they came across Cthulhu they'd have a fucking heart attack.
Again it sounds like you're going at it from the Call of Cthulhu RPG perspective, which tells you that just looking at him, in any context whatsoever, automatically makes you go crazy. Which is bullshit by Lovecraft's standards.
And by "charmingly" I meant "obnoxiously", your scientist fanaticism is getting on my nerves.
>Cthulhu Vs Gipsy Danger
In all seriousness, no, i see your idea, it's simply that, as i said, you simply can't get the "wrongness" of these things with a static image in the way HPL meant it (more so because there is no such thing as horrors from outer space that drives you crazy by just looking at the thing). Sarcasm aside, that Zeppelin-Cthulhu image is far from uninteresting, but it demands a certain sensibility from its audience (and that goes well beyond lazy explanations a la "well, those guys are plebs and can't enjoy real art"), and for most of us, well, it will simply fall flat. Muzy at the very least manages to depict something (more so in the other color image with a bit of context but even this one is not a final work) that has a "plausible" anatomy that won't break the viewer suspension of disbelief (and i do believe that in the case of a game like CoC this is of paramount importance), a sense of mass and majesty. Lacking any means to actually paint the absolute otherness of it, i'd say that's as good as one can expect from an artist who needs to touch each and every one of the players to some extend instead than a hit or miss like more "experimental", shall we say, attempts.
>It very much does escape a bunch of laws. If you're gonna take the concept of Cthulhu even remotely seriously to critique some of its aspects, you're gonna have to accept at least that.
>something it cant do just does because belief and magic
Incorrect, things outside religion dont work like that
>city made of impossible angles
What are optical illusions?
>And by "charmingly" I meant "obnoxiously"
how passive aggressive of you
>your scientist fanaticism is getting on my nerves
reverting to anger when you have no other argument, gotcha
Well I think that it's on the contrary very important for Cthulhu's design to CHALLENGE the viewer's suspension of disbelief rather than remain in his comfort zone by perpetuating movie monster designs (and not even very striking ones at that).
I'm gonna say it in plain terms: Muzy's design doesn't look fucked up enough. Or at all. It's yet another variation on the "muscular Cthulhu" theme, which it barely revitalizes by giving it a mane and toad arms.
Generally I have a problem with Cthulhu designs that look too predatory. It's pretty obvious that Cthulhu, as fearsome as he may be, is a misshapen, gross, clumsy abomination that destroys through sheer mass and power, not a perfect alien killing machine. And that subsequently, his majesty should be drawn from his impressive monstrosity rather than from his coolness.
ah okay you were just shitposting all along.
I'm gonna have to dust off my fedora meme, which hasn't served in months now that nobody takes it seriously anymore, allowing you to freely roam 4chan acting as a stereotype nobody believes in anymore to piss off people.
To be fair the Elder Things aren't supposed to look threatening. They're just supposed to look exotic. It's when we learn that they dissected everyone including the dogs that they get menacing.
Shit posting? not at all. I presented arguments, they were weakly countered with "believe and magic" and other faggot shit and then nothing. Im still waiting on an actual serious reply.
But seeing the low low IQ of my repliers i doubt that will happen, sadly :/
I do agree i'd rather see a fat weird Cthulhu than Mr Universe here.
But i still can't get my brain around how you can consider Zeppelin-Cthulhu a good depiction of the thing. Cthulhu is the archetypal evil being in all its tradition. It needs to clic in in a single second, and the guys watching it immediately thinks "oh shit i'm SO fucked" before turning batshit crazy and chewing his own tongue. It doesn't work well when you spend fifteen minutes wondering which extremity is the mouth and which one the asshole.
The entire point of all of Lovecraft's writing is that there is no infallible truth, and that our core fundamental understanding of nature are wrong and we're all dumb idiot morons.
Ah so that's the issue here.
I really don't think Cthulhu should look "evil". I think it should look horrible and fucked up, but I don't think ti should express any relatable motive or emotion, let alone malevolence. (It's assumed that he's just happy as fuck when he wakes up but that's all)
That's why I cringe at every depiction of him that has big frowning angry eyes. That's also partly why I don't like predatory depictions.
A shitposter is a shitposter, even in a meme!
>i have nothign else i can rebuttle with so i call names, hurray me~!
i actually love Lovecraftian. I hate that it needs the "jesus touch" in order to be fascinating however
There has to be a way around it
something like >>44938348
Ahhh, Jesus, or some say Jizzum, do you hear our prayers?
Indeed evil was not the term i should have used. The big guy is way above and beyond such triffle notions, he is wild and free, etc...
I should have said "instantaneously terror inducing and hiting something very primal in some remote part of our brain that reminds us that we are small weak apes hiding in caves from things far grander than us".
Problem is, what triggers that feeling better than predators? You can't draw his supernatural aura.
Go play some lovecraft-lite if you're only in it for the aesthetic, fuckboi
One thing does: disease and hypertrophy, and it matches the description of Cthulhu at least as well as the predatory interpretation (which isn't entirely off-base since he's described as a "dragon-squid").
That's why in the previous thread I mentioned having him ideally be at once gaunt and obese.
But the rotten textures on the "zeppelin" also achieve that effect pretty well.
Well i'm sorry but the zeppelin simply didn't make it at all for me. And if you happen to have other artworks of Cthulhu that would fit our "middle-ground" here, by all means i am extremely interested to see them as well. On this, i wish all of you a good night, it is starting to be very late here. I'll be happy to check all of this tomorrow.
Are dark young supposed to reference the triple goddess? I mean they do have three sides?
I keep imagining that there must be one of them that looks like three people stuck together back to back, twisted and nightmarish, in a aspect that would inspire the idea of a triple goddess.
Or, more simply, imagine the Newborn from Alien 4, except instead of his goofy face he has six beady expressionless eyes, and a bunch of tendrils. And he's 50 yards tall.
Concerning the issue of madness-inducing horrors, one must remember that Lovecraft's most memorable protagonists were already oversensitive and over-imaginative because they are authorial inserts.
There are two key parts of Lovecraft.
1) The idea that humans can not comprehend the true nature of reality
2) The aesthetic (Tentacles, Gibbering, the word "cyclopean")
If you don't like 1, then you must only like 2.
ah,you REALLY must not like to read because i already addressed that
"1" essentially is a "jesus touch", where you must believe it before it can take any effect. That's simply not a drug anywhere near strong enough for me. If it cannot over power my logical skepticism then it literally has no merit as a mind fuck. Simply "believing it" will not alleviate this because i already know once i stop believing it loses all power. That's why i dislike it. I even stated in the very same post how i wish it was more powerful and less "believe in the magic".
Which means all that's left is "2" which is probably how you derive your conclusion, which is already incorrect.
You mean like how in the game, The Darkest Dungeon
mankind is actually just "errant flesh" cast off from the beating heart at the center of the world that somehow managed to gain a will of its own, and those that worship said heart the most fervently begin reverting back into tentacled monstrosities?
The despair. The inevitability. The melancholy of powerlessness. The idea of cruel dark gods makes sense in reality. There's Entropy. There's the inevitable heat death of the universe. Time runs out and everything ends in silence. Brutal. Morbid. No bright Future.
again, the fuck are you on about? I havent even pulled large, hardly used words out of my ass to whip out at you in the hopes it confuses you.
Nothing i have said has not been presented in such a way that you can read it and comprehend it. Mind doing the same?
That is pretty cool.
In my games, I've always struggled to conceptualise what is it that makes people go mad in Lovecraft (I know it supposed to be unimaginable), but that comes pretty close.
So you can't even understand what>>44948945
said. Thanks for making my point for me. Which was, if you missed it, that you are an uneducated idiot who thinks he knows everything despite it clearly not being the case. Was that simple enough for you?
I will not take the time to understand all the intricacies and connotations of a rarely used word when it can be explained with out using said word.
Your inability to explain with out said word as if its a magical plot device shows the weakness of your argument, not its strength. You fail Einsteins simplicity test. (google it, faggot)
The idiot here is you.
God I wish we could get the French and German versions in English. Goddamn do I ever.
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE VOICE OF REASON ON THIS BOARD. AND IT IS I!
You have no appreciation for how alien quantum physics is or how incomprehensible things of the 4th dimension and beyond would be, do you?
Physics isn't infallible. It's just how we think things work. That doesn't mean that's necessarily how it works.
Technically we are. In the mythos we're so incredibly psionic that we subconciously form reality to our ideology, namely order on all levels. Yeah, all that shit about physics and general relativity? It only works because a cast majority of humans believe it does. We're a blight spot on the actual order of the universe which is chaos and fundamental unknowality except by creatures therein. Believing that things like god, gravity, "proper" 3 dimensional geometry, right and wrong actually pushed things like the outer gods out of our general territory simply because they, at the time didn't understand the rules we placed down for our version of reality to exist. This is also why things like starring at "true" creatures of the universe make us go insane to some degree simply because our only exposure to the universe at large is what we created and finding out all of that, including us right down to our souls, is a lie we created to cope.
In the mouth of madness movie touches on this alot by having the writer slowly unveil the true concepts of the universe book by book until a slow niggling bit of our mind knew to be true the actual universe. It was enough to drive some insane even though the knowledge was barely any and firmly placed where you weren't conciously aware of it. The tipping point happened when the people who knew his books and its knowledge outweighed the people who knew the bible, which in that setting was the order we forced on the universe, causing Our reality to weaken letting the abominations in.
He's referring to one of the linked images.
Pegasus, the German license, has been putting out high quality for over a decade now. They redo the whole design, make their own scenarios, and translate only what makes sense in context. Their stroke of genius was the leather bound edition. They have also been buying Launet's art for years.
pic related is the handout from the German 6e quickstart.
It's impossible to say if something is infallible unless you speak from the standpoint of something that truly IS infallible.
What is the only thing in existence that is infallible that you can build all assumptions off of with 100% certainty? There is litterally only one thing.
Hint: most idiots fail at it
Hint2: /tg/ (as well as many many things on this site) wouldnt exist with out it or its discovery.