>>44923343 Lenin's will was read out to Soviet Congress. He didn't want Stalin to be leader. Trotsky is chosen instead. Very minor purges, no famines. Cold War still happens, research into PSI pays off in a big way. 2016 rolls around, American MK-Ultra Agents and USSR Progressive Citizens are trying to suppress ISIS True Believers in Syria, while the US Department of Science tries to deal with growing levels of spontaneous psychic outbursts among adolescents.
>>44923343 Scandinavia Christianisation never happened. The Norse faith formed into an official Church that united Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark into one nation. Scandinavia becomes a Super Power in the world stage
>>44924054 >Very minor purges, no famines There were massive famines even during Lenin's time, mostly because the Bolsheviks were complete shit at understanding economics, incentives, and resource management. Lenin had to give up his communist dream about three years in in order to beg people into privatized land ownership since that was the only way any agricultural resources could have been produced at large enough quantities to sustain the nation. And of course those few private land owners, who consisted of around 5% the labor force, produced 85% of the essential resources consumed by the Soviet Union
Everything is exactly normal until some big magical-introduction event, indicating my settings are the results of timeline splitting. I figure you can't HAVE the current modern-day to work with if there was any significant magic since before, say, the fifties. Similar logic is applied to even middle-ages campaign settings.
It also addresses shit like "why hasn't this magic completely fucked the economy/dimensionally connected all cities worldwide yet?" and "what kind of fucking retard gathers a big clustered army AT ALL in a world that knows about Cloudkill, or even Fireball?"
>>44925750 IRL, nuking DC would do nothing but cause literally every single able-bodied man south of the Mason-Dixon and west of the Mississippi to automatically enlist in the military and come out the gate swinging. The great thing about the US is that since the federal offices and important locations are spread out in such a massive area, it's really, really difficult to perform a surgical strike against it. The only real issue would be human capital, but even that can be fixed quickly if necessary by relocating the capitol to one of the backup cities (Chicago, Austin, Boston, and I think a few other places) and instating the next highest ranking executive. One of the great things about the US government is that there is an extremely comprehensive and explicit chain of command should the government be incapacitated.
You'd basically have to pull a Fallout China and drop so many nukes on them that there is literally no place in the country that isn't inside of a blast zone.
>>44929211 Saudi Arabia and America are allies at face value though. If Saudi Arabia became a superpower instead of a puppet, it would likely be as an American friend like the UK. If ISIS managed to, say move eastward into Iran and take control of their nuclear infrastructure, you'd have a straight up cold war on your hands.
Emirate of Granada or some form of moderate Muslim Berber state remained in Spain, allowing Spanish Jewish culture to continue and learning from European advancements while continuing logic-based schools of Islamic thought instead of Ottoman retardation.
>>44929666 He has no fucking clue of what he is talking about. I also bet he thinks there was this Islamic Golden Age where Sufi Islam reigned supreme when in reality they were the least mad mudslimes.
>>44923343 I usually start my alt history settings directly after the alteration because I never know enough about the era to go further. Here's a few I thought about. >Athenian Empire wins the Peloponnesian War and becomes the dominant force in the Greek world. They have a greater chance to withstand Philip II's conquest as they form their own league of Greek states. >Imperial Japan doesn't attack the Philippines or their government manages to curb their military before they invade Manchuria. State Shinto remains as they never become seriously involved in WWII. They start to culturally advocate East Asian co-prosperity rather than leave it as empty rhetoric. Cold War becomes West vs East. >Gore wins in 2000. I dunno what's different. >Varus mitigates the massacre in Teutoburg forest; Rome eventually approves further conquest into Germanic territory.
>>44930917 I have very limited knowledge on the subject so I can't say anything for certain. I think that, more noticeably in the Qing, foreign regimes were easier to maintain because they were aided by their Confucian social hierarchy. Citizens were willing to accept these foreign powers as legitimate because they restored order. I don't believe Rome had a comparable ideology that kept order other than a strong cultural identity (correct me if I'm wrong, Rome is a weak point for me) which would be actively against a foreign power taking up the reigns. I think that if Rome continued, social chaos would increase as they expanded until ethnic rebellions would split it apart into a Warring States period.
>>44930882 no but I do believe that Europe was better off after the collapse of Western Rome than before, and that the assumed normalcy of a united China set a president for oppressive autocracy which always returned
>>44931103 Stoicism could have evolved to serve a similar role as Confucianism in the East, and you'll find most peasants anywhere in history would be more loyal to invaders if the native rulers has year after year of corruption, famine, etc behind it, and the new boss seems to end the former problems. Foreign dynasties always appear when native rulers are weak and unpopular, which makes it possible for the foreigners to take over to take over in the first place, whether it's the Greeks in Egypt and Persia or the Mongols in China.
>>44931171 >Europe was better off after the collapse of Western Rome than before Only after a 1 to 2 centuries of chaos and destruction. No, the Dark Ages didn't last the entire Middle Ages, and they weren't as bad as most movies or books make them seem, but the completely opposite notion that the Dark Ages never existed at all is equally retarded, despite becoming popular on the internet lately.
It's not my perfect one, but it's what I'm working on on and off.
>In the 1960s, various (IRL failed, alt-history successful) military research projects for "future technology" coalesce in the United States into the "Walking Combat Rig", a prototype for a quadrupedal weapons platform >Plans are leaked to the Soviets, who immediately begin copying this new design and making their own "improvements", including pioneering a bipedal version >By 1969, prototypes have been in US service for over a year, and have met with a good deal of success in infantry support. In the summer of '69, though, the NVA's fancy new Soviet-built biped Rigs sweep southward, pushing the U.S. and ARVN back, and eventually out >Junked Rigs, surplus non-combat ones (think power loaders and ammo carriers), and various other Walkers fall into mercenary and PMC hands >the PMCs become a fairly major force, waging proxy wars for whoever hires them
Setting picks up in the 1970s. One part Metal Gear, a few parts Battletech, and a lot of suspension of disbelief even I can't get over.
It conquered everything all the way up to China, as well as somehow managing to colonize Africa and the Americas many centuries earlier than they were actually colonized.
The Mesoamerican and South American Empires are Vassalized by Rome, China is finally conquered, and the world enters the era of Pax Terra.
By the year 2000, the Moon has been colonized and the Senatus Populusque Terra begins spreading out into the galaxy at large, the disaster of the enlightenment being averted and ever greater and more efficient means of hierarchy and citizenship being created.
>>44931560 >Imperial Rome got things done Yeah, like a fountain full of little boys and a floating palace in addition to the huge regular palace that was built on top of sections of the city that just happened to burn down right before construction started.
>>44931902 I really want it to work out, but at the same time, I'm really bad at this whole thing, and the fact I can't get over the suspension of belief (mostly around computing) is keeping me from working on it.
>>44923343 Germany never presses their claims on Danzig in 1939, eventually leads to a three way cold war between Capitalism (led by the US, France, and Britain), Fascism (led by Germany, Italy, and Hungary), and Communism (led by the USSR). Due to German experimentation human psychics begin to develop, by the present each side relies on psychic super soldiers to wage proxy wars around the globe. Since psychic powers tend to result in users "burning out" and dying from overuse at young ages most of the soldiers are teenagers, squads are led by an experienced normal special forces officers.
End result is you have psychic teenagers led by grizzled veterans leading death squads in Nicaragua.
My favorite starts with that intercepted WW1 telegram whose name I'm forgetting. In NA >Mexico attacks US >US conquers Baja and Arizona gets Rocky Point >US starts European war late >not quite roaring twenties because no German gold
In West/central Europe >with late American entry, Germany sacks Paris but unlike in ww2 and franco-prussian, france fights on >Austria-Hungary falls apart, early Anschluss >Triangular German Reich stretches from Brussels to Konigsberg to Trieste/tyrolia >massive germanification effort of poles, czech, and walloon populations: forced conscription of young men to police formerly Belgian territories in Africa, land available freely to them; no European land sales to non-Germans; free teaching and nursing colleges for young females but away from home (german frauleins to the territories, others to prewar Germany); regular social mixers with occupying soldiers; universal suffrage to germans and half Germans; etc, etc--easily a unified and mostly germanic reich within two generations
In eastern Europe >lenin still brings down romanovs >Berlin swaps support to white Cossacks >longer civil war, but Soviets still triumphant >Baltics play off Moscow and Berlin as buffer states >Yugoslavia and Central-eastern europe much the same
In ME >Berlin to Bagdhad RR >temporarily resurgent ottaman empire...explodes under attaturk during proxy war with persia (britain vs germany) >new Constantinople german puppet state >sultan of mecca exterminates wahabist Saudis with german support >mid east fragmentation along credible (non sykes-picot) lines >non-forced Zionism
>>44931307 You do realize that the fall of Western Rome wasn't a big dramatic event, right? For most people at the time it would have been impossible to tell any difference. It was simply nothing that affected people's daily lifes.
>notion that the Dark Ages never existed at all is equally retarded No, because it never did exist.
>>44933943 >You do realize that the fall of Western Rome wasn't a big dramatic event, right? For most people at the time it would have been impossible to tell any difference. Unless you were living in one of the cities being sacked or had your government overwhelmed and replaced by one of the new Germanic tribes.
>No, because it never did exist. Records were burned in several places and literacy declined. There was a reason a lot of Classical literature had to be preserved in the Islamic world instead. A decline in records is literally the definition of a dark age in history.
>>44934358 >one of the cities being sacked or had your government overwhelmed and replaced by one of the new Germanic tribes That was a process that went on for a long time and started way before Western Rome actually fell. By the time the west half of the Empire ceased to exist the Emperor had no real authority in his supposed realm beyond Italy as he had delegated it to Germanic kings.
>>44934422 The fact that it went on for a long time has nothing to do with it not being sudden for plenty of people in local areas, or with the fact that the number of records made and preserved declined.
>>44934358 Except the "Dark Ages" supposedly lasted from the fall of the Roman Empire until Petrarch wrote his stupid treatise in, what, the 14th century? It's been shrinking ever since because we keep finding records from earlier and earlier time periods. At this point we literally have writings from every century of the so-called dark ages.
Records are always being burned and new ones are always being written. The Dark Ages have no scientific basis because nobody can actually place the fucking era accurately. Everyone who isn't a retard has stopped using the meme-term and started calling it the Migration Era, because that's what it was.
>>44934465 >Except the "Dark Ages" supposedly lasted from the fall of the Roman Empire until Petrarch wrote his stupid treatise in, what, the 14th century? It lasted for a couple centuries immediately after the fall of the West but very quickly bounced back. The fact that it bounced back doesn't mean it never fell at all.
>At this point we literally have writings from every century of the so-called dark ages. The fact there are records doesn't mean anything. No one claims there were no records written at all, but fewer records were made and preserved, and literacy overall dipped.
>The Dark Ages have no scientific basis because nobody can actually place the fucking era accurately. This is true of every single fucking historic period.
>On midnight of December 31, 1899, every single animal outside the homo genus experiences horrific seizures lasting a few minutes, and arises under the control of a seemingly malevolent intelligence.
>Aforementioned entity is not terribly tactically intelligent but nonetheless takes it upon itself to coordinate nearby animals to kill off humanity. It can't actually send animals on long voyages though because the animals have no comparable notions of space and thus can't communicate the locations of humans outside their immediate vicinity though.
>1900s become the century of the beast rebellion
>The animals capable of speech eventually attempt diplomacy with smaller nations fully isolated by what is effectively a semi-permeable global blockade action explaining knowledge of a future in which their actions destroy the planet, inciting them to wage war on non-compliant states in exchange for safety in their home territories.
>>44934505 Except literacy didn't dip. Germany, France, and Britain were never Literate. They didn't lose anything. Quite to the contrary, during the Dark Ages, Charlamagne's scholars invented that whole "spaces between words" thing. Basically modern literacy came into being. Literacy EXPANDED everywhere except Italy.
Most of Europe went from being semi-nomadic barbarian tribes to being feudal states. The "Dark Ages" were one of the greatest transitions from pre-civilization to civilization in European history. It was a time of progress and development. It has been slandered by ignorant non-historians who fixate too much on Rome.
Most parts of northern Europe, North America and Russia never got colonised as elktribes are highly territorial and know what kind of shit humans do when they show up. Around year 1300 the elks are United by a single leader The Moose King. The first war begins...
>>44932044 What's wrong? 1) The fact that mechas, would be "too heavy" to actually function? 2) That walking tanks is a bullshit idea because they would be much more fragile than tanks require more complex parts? 3) Ot that it's actually really hard to make a machine that can move like an animal?
Lemme help: 1) I'm gonna say brontosaurus just to see if you freak out about "brontosaurus" and totally skim over the implied "big fucking dinosaurs" did it first. 2) Walking tanks are bullshit, they'd be sitting ducks. No, if you want mechas they have to be as agile as infantry. No one can say infantry is bullshit. Being infantry not only makes it really kewl, but also gives the implication that is can survive on the battlefield and it's efficiency will permit expensive parts and maintenance. After all planes were fragile and hard to repair and pilot, but we kept them because they were worth it. 3) This is the hard one. In fact this is probably the real reason we haven't had mechas yet. I'd go biotech, if we go biotech minus ethics, then maybe there could have been progress. Otherwise you'd have to go "aliens" If you want alt.history, steer well away from "magic" because it isn't even plausible. If you want magic, then it isn't alt history, it's something else.
The UEF demands greater concessions out of its victory against the Aussies.
16 December 1932
Australia is on the brink of bankruptcy and famine. George Forbes, New Zealand Prime Minister, is credited as saying of the crisis, "How the fuck did you morons manage to screw this up that badly?"
21 December 1932
Australian army defects en masse to the UEF, citing, "They're more capable military leaders and politicians than the bastards that sent us to fight them." Australia soon becomes divided between those who support and oppose the UEF. Tensions run high.
24 December 1932
The Bloody Hot Christmas Uprising occurs. UEF has control of the continent.
25 December 1932
The Christmas Peace: UEF control of Australia cemented. All members of Parliament are now required by law to be emus.
1 January 1933
King George V dies of a stroke after hearing the news of Australia. Britain mourns. New Zealand fears potential of a repeat scenario; Maori citizens remind them all the big dumb birds of the islands are dead. "You're welcome."
11 January 1933
Sir Charles Kingsford Smith makes the first commercial flight between Australia and New Zealand, helping to restore diplomatic relations and ease fears of the UEF starting what a "campaign of avian terror" in the Pacific.
30 January 1933
Hitler comes to power in Germany. When asked on the subject of the UEF, he blames "undesirables" being responsible for such a "modern age atrocity."
13 January 1939
Brushfires in Victoria, major disaster prevented due to a coordinated effort by the UEF and Australian forces. Civilian deaths total in 4 humans and 7 emus. When asked on the quick response to the brushfires, military personnel were quoted as stating, "Haven't a damn clue, the birds, they... just knew."
22 May 1940
Major Meredith's quote put to the test. UEF divisions face down pursuing German forces in Dunkirk. Birds turn tide; German retreat.
23 June 1940
Hitler captured by exceptionally lost emu in Paris.
>>44934986 >1) I'm gonna say brontosaurus just to see if you freak out about "brontosaurus" and totally skim over the implied "big fucking dinosaurs" did it first. #TRIGGERED
2 and 3 hit up the actual problem. Putting something in the late 60s/early 70s that can be as agile as infantry, while trying to be even slightly realistic, is effectively an exercise in futility. Walking tanks are the most likely to be possible (and SORT OF existed by that point- see the Walking Truck). The closest to infantry I could probably get is Battletech-style... and that's not what I was aiming for.
I dunno. I'll probably just end up writing a cyberpunk setting so my GM can stop complaining about not being familiar with Shadowrun or so I can run a solo session... I can't GM for shit though
>>44935166 yeah but no, walking tanks are deathtraps. How do you effectively armor legs? tank tracks are simple metal bits linked together; not complex. mechanical legs, shiggy diggy. Not only that but look at that target silhouette a walking tank offers over a regular tank.
>I feel dem feels about being a GM. I'd like to try it too, but i wouldn't even know where to start.
What does /tg/ think about the frequent accusation of alternate history writers for engaging in nationalistic wish-fulfillment (i.e. designing entire histories for the ultimate purpose of turning whatever nation, religion, philosophy or ethnic group they admire more impressive than it is in real-life)?
>>44926113 They used to say that about Japan (I don't recall who it was who used the phrase "every man, woman and child" to refer to how the entire Japanese population would take up arms and dedicate the rest of its existence to killing as many Americans possible if they nuked Hiroshima. The actual result was the opposite). It's very hard to say with situations like these. The point of nuking DC wouldn't be to disable the important facilities in DC, it would be to crush a symbol of the American people while showing that Germany has developed the atom bomb and presumably has more in stock, with the ultimate effect being to break their spirits. Very few nations would actually break apart if you nuked their capital, or any major city, but in theory (it's not like we have a great deal of historical evidence to work on, since it was only done once) many would surrender because when the enemy has gone far enough to nuke one of your cities they are implying that they are willing to continue to the rest of them.
>>44923343 The bolsheviks win the first revolution but fail their coup to power, Hitlery avoided the draft because he had a leg problem and went to art school, colonia empire was disbanded not because of the inability to hold it but because of a democratic proces
PCs are multiverse-travelers Discover that our world is the outlier, and on 99% of alternate Earths the Nazis won, the Confederacy and the Union persist in a Cold War, the Roman Empire never fell, ancient Egyptians colonized America, whatever
Atlantis, an island based kingdom off the coast of Africa in the Mediterranean which is incredibly rich and advanced (for its time - they got good metallurgy and architecture and an ingenious system of irrigation canals, not lasers and robots) exists and has existed since the time of the sixth dynasty of Egypt.
>>44935547 wait... is the 'Good End' alternate history? >Adolf Hitler, skilled but somewhat conservative painter who created some of his best work in the late 50's before dying of syphilis >Europe shocked and appalled by the horrors of war (the Spanish Civil War) >Free and democratic elections held throughout the British Empire - almost 50% elect to remain within the new British Commonwealth >The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People earns African-Americans the right to vote in 1912 >Martin Luther King Jr becomes 1st black president in 1972 >Afghanistan formally accepted into Russian Union in 1981
Have you read The Republic? Atlantis was ABSURDLY huge. So much that it would not FIT in the Mediterranean if it really had the dimensions Plato ascribed to it. That's why it's generally placed in the ATLANTIc ocean, where it would at least have some space. Assuming it's somewhere near modern day Morocco and more conservatively sized (say, about as large as Morocco itself) and possesses the riches and advancements described by Plato (which could not stop showing every single aspect of its society with superlatives), I'd say it would have a GREAT deal of influence. "Would be weird if they haven't conquered Europe and Africa by now" influence.
>>44935641 not all that good but better than today >Germany probably will still have a nationalistic party but Nazism is never created, WW2 never happens, but a war between central Slavs and Germans probably still dose >Russia is a democratic state with a strong socialist presence instead of a full out totalitarian gomies >Africa and middle east still unstable but not so much >Israel never created, the jews get integrated more and more into European society >America has no need to become global power, corporations are not as strong today >Japs still go apeshit on china
It is also the only "confederasy survives" timeline I have seen so far where dixieland does NOT become either unstoppable expansionist ubermench or a dictatorship ruled by "evil southerners".They are just one more nation in the world,doing their own thing
>>44935706 I think the EU would be still created, but depending on the political spectrum it could go one of two ways. 1. adopt the american system, a super state with former counters being states. A lot of autonomy but still has a shared government that calls the shots 2. Trade union that integrates the countries more and more, similar to what we have today but because there would be less commotion it would be less hated. Overall single countries in europe have no hope of staying relevant, to push on a union would still be needed
>>44935648 Nigga, Atlantis by Plato is the size of a continent, had every natural resource and every crop he could imagine giving them spilling out their asses, and supposedly built impossibly gigantic cities connected by canals thousands and thousands of years before ancient Egypt was a THING. If Atlantis had never sank, we'd be speaking Atlantean from here to Beijing.
What faggots don't realize is that Plato described Atlantis as an IDEAL. It was a theoretical example of how a perfect society might look and an allegorical tale of why it could've fallen. It wasn't meant to be thought of in realistic terms.
They had elephants, though. That's cool. Atlantean armies, using orchicalcum weapons and riding elephants against a humanity which back in the day hasn't figured out flint spears yet.
>>44935760 more so but still not as much. Both the USA and Russia have much more land and a lot more resources, also because of the fact that so many people are controlled by one government, there are a lot more options of planning and making projects that will make cash in the long term. On the other hand, european country are fairly small with little recourses when compared. Europe always depended on specialization and technological advancement, while the process would surly take much much longer than before, at one point or a norther banding together would be needed
>>44935719 I've read at least one story/rpg/timeline/whatever where during the Civil War the Confederacy HAD TO free their slaves to fight the Union. DC comics touched on this with the evil-universe alternates of the JLA, whose GL John Stewart 'earned his freedom in the Manumission Legions'.
A few years ago, someone started an alternate history thread by providing a map with no explanation of how the situation got this way, and people tried working back from it and imagine how the history of the world might've been. I remember that it had Israel controlling large parts of Syria, Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan, India being slightly larger than China and spreading into Pakistan, and Europe being massively balkanized.
Anyone knows what I'm talking about? I've never been able to find it in the archives and I know that I saw it at one point.
>>44935776 I'm now imagining that the corporations which never rose to power in the USA instead became powerful in Europe, exploiting the geopolitical weakness and divisiveness of nations with a wide range of governments (democratic, monarchy, national socialist, regular socialist). No nation would ever want to give the Euro-Corporations too much trouble, cos they can always just pick up their shit and move their business to one of your many rival countries where they already have offices and factories.
I have somethimes wondered if ww2 could have been avoided if ww1 ended without russia having its revolution.Without the soviet union to intimidate the world,the various fascist movements would not have a big communist nation to "protect" their people from
Guns, Germs & Steel puts a lot of the blame for the ultimate failure of Native American culture on a lack of viable livestock, which not only limited their capability to develop agriculturally but also doomed them to death from plagues when the European hit (as the Europeans' living in proximity to farm animals for thousands of years has granted them immunity to countless diseases which originally mutated from livestock).
As AHH mentions in one of their videos, this could be seen as a little ironic since many of what essential domestic animals of Eurasia, such as camels and horses, originally evolved in America - crossing over through the Russian-Alaskan landbridge around 10,000 years ago, after which their American counterparts went extinct.
What if they hadn't? What if Native American civilizations have always evolved besides horses, cows and sheep?
Militarily, too. Chariots, then horses themselves, transformed and dominated Eurasian warfare. Native American armies would've looked completely different for their existence. Look at how quickly the Plains tribes took to them, and how much it changed their culture. There's no way of telling how they might've been if they'd had horses the whole time. Maybe they wouldn't need to HUNT bison so much. They may have ended up domesticating it, no longer necessitating their nomadic existence and allowing them to become an agricultural civilization. For millennia, the Great Plains were essentially a wasteland. Millennia of agricultural development, however, could've turned them into North America's breadbasket centuries earlier. Instead of stone-age teepee dwellers, Europeans could've arrived to find city-building, army-fielding Comanche and Lakota empires with populations of millions.
>>44936675 Woah, hold on, this is Good End Earth! >Danzig remains a Free City until the modern day, and is a proud member of the League of Nations >Sudetenland becomes an independent state of mixed German and Czech peoples >The Saar was managed directly by the League of Nations for 15 years, and then returned to German control
>>44936731 How was the outcome of the War changed? Was it more bloody, or did the carnage shock people into surrendering early? Which people who WOULD have been important got chewed up in the conflict?
>>44923343 It's not a fully realized scenario, but it's always occurred to me that the Pacific theater in WW2 was fairly separate from the war in Europe. That being so, if Hitler's rise and subsequent aggressions were somehow prevented, the USA and Japan would have still had a war brewing, and Pearl Harbor might have still happened right on schedule.
The British empire keeps on going, eventually encompassing the entire planet. The natives are grateful to be uplifted from their savagery. Humanity enters a new era of peace and prosperity under the glorious british empire.
Germany destroys the British forces at Dunkirk and Halifax becomes PM and makes peace like the appeaser he was. The perceived weakness by the UK means the coup plotters in Yugoslavia are suddenly a lot less sure about their position and don't overthrow the government, meaning no Italian and later German invasion to prevent Barbarossa from being launched than it was supposed to be. The Nazis take Moscow and Leningrad before the winter gets too harsh and the Soviet's kill Stalin and try and make peace by ceding control of Russia west of the Urals leaving the Germans to pacify a massive amount of land which will bleed them of young men, money, and resources for decades, crippling the German economy. The Germans struggled to pacify Yugoslavia OTL, so you can guarantee that pacifying something as massive European Russia would have been insane. The Japanese face the US and a stronger British presence in the Pacific since the Brits aren't worried about an invasion. Japan would be stomped into the ground and have two cities burnt in nuclear hellfire by the US to show Germany not to fuck with them. The US, led by communist sympathizer and ardent leftist, Henry Wallace, send money and guns to the Soviets to be sent to the Russian guerrilla fighters and has US forces occupy French and Dutch Guiana, as as well as Greenland to keep the Nazi's out of the Western Hemisphere. This marks the beginning of the Cold War.
After the Second English Civil War of 1648-1649, the dominion of Canada refused to acknowledge the right of Parliament to govern them without a monarch and declared independence. With turmoil still present in England, Parliament could do little about its lost colonies, leaving the scattered settlements the task of coming together with a stable form of government. At first, the towns formed a loose federation of independent entities, but this would shortly be ended by the ambitions of Louis XIV of France, who saw the weakened and isolated territory as a perfect chance for a land grab. In 1653, French forces under the command of General Robert de Courcelle, crossed into the formerly English territory in an attempt to annex the region for France.
The new federation was forced to unite behind a central leadership and government and allied strongly with the native tribes in the area that the French had made fierce enemies of. Their action succeeded in delaying the French advance and ultimately turning it back, but a state of war continued to exist between the countries. Oddly enough, it was England that came to the new Canada's rescue. Recognising that France would gain a monopoly on the trade in beaver fur, Cromwell dispatched ships to blockade French ports in Canada, effectively cutting the army off from re-enforcement and forging a very uneasy alliance with Canada. Emboldened by this move, the Canadian forces, aided by their tribal allies, swept into French territory and quickly turned the tables. By 1658, a humiliating treaty was signed that seceded what in our timeline would be Maine and Vermont to Canada and the French withdrew in complete disgrace. This war would sour French-Canadian relations for the next several centuries and lead to further armed conflict that would ultimately see the French completely pushed out of the region.
>>44937147 Ultimately the German economy collapses in the mid 80s from the strain of the never ending war in Russia, fighting proxy wars in Angola and Mozambique against American supported rebels. After a failed coup attempt by SS hardliners against a moderate reformer, the Greater German Reich collapses. European Russia is left in a state of utter chaos as the German army rapidly pulls out and the German settlers that have been living there for the past forty years are forced to flee in the face of Russians no longer opposed by the German army. Fascist Italy survives the collapse of the GGR, but the Dutch Disease which came as a result of being able to make use of the vast oil wealth of Libya basically leaves it a second rate power unable to take up the space Germany once filled and most of the German occupied or allied states turn away from communism. In fact it is Nationalist China that becomes the leader of remaining Fascist Bloc. Though China had been an ally of the United States after the US smashed Japan into the dirt the SIno-American Split occurred over America's continued support of the USSR and refusal to allow the KMT to take Russian Manchuria.
Europe is in chaos with the collapse of the nearly byzantine Nazi state and formerly occupied countries slaughtering collaborators.
>>44937181 Now united, the Canadian capitol was moved to Portland and the territories were consolidated under Mark Lakin, who declared himself King of the Canadian Federation in 1660. Cut off from immigrants from England, the new kingdom was forced to make strong alliances with the native tribes in the area and started the long process of assimilation with the Huron, who had been on the losing side of a series of wars with the Iroquois Confederacy. This influx of native people and their culture was met with stiff resistance by the more conservative elements of English-Canadian society, but given the natives' overwhelming numerical advantage, such voices were largely ineffectual, with the exception of a series of bloody riots in Portland in 1682-83, which ultimately influenced the move of the nation's capitol to Toronto, heralding closer relations with the Huron and other native tribes and shifting the centre of Canadian urban and commercial development further into the interior of the continent.
Christianity gradually faded from prominence due to tribal influence and when King Mark's successor, Robert Lakin, took both a Huron AND an Iroquois wife (greatly helping long-tenuous relations with the tribe, following Canadian adoption of the defeated Huron), Christianity ceased to be supported as the state religion. Naturally, this caused several years of intense unrest in the eastern and more European settlements, but King Robert assured his subjects that they were free to practice their religion as they pleased and even enshrined the right to religious freedom in the country's laws, marking the first acceptance of a pagan religion alongside Christianity, since the fall of the Roman Empire.
>>44937189 For a long time, Canada was slow to expand westwards, owing to the vast space and resources available to them in the east and internal difficulties stemming from their disparate cultures. Tensions between Canada and the American colonies had been high ever since the French-Indian War (which resulted in the last of the French either fleeing to Canada, or being expelled from the north of the continent) and colonial aggression against native tribes west of the Appalachian mountains. Canada had no influence over the territory, but it inflamed tensions within its own native population and neighbors, who feared similar action by Canada. Further, the Great Awakening and the wave of Christian revivalism in the English colonies, highlighted the sharp divide between the pagan and Christian populations in Canada, weakening the nation's unity. Indeed, when the preacher George Whitefield attempted to visit Canada to spread his message of redemption, he was promptly arrested and expelled from the country. The Awakening did however instigate a series of changes to native paganism and Canadian Christianity, which over the next century and a half would become what is known today as Angelic Shamanism.
Following American victory however Canada rose the wave of liberty and made the bold move of abolishing slavery within its territory. This was a move largely aimed at increasing its population by attracting the slaves it assumed the south would free. This of course failed to happen, but many escaped slaves did flee to Canada, when the British, whom they had previously fought for in exchange for guaranteed freedom, were defeated. In Canada, those slaves were granted automatic citizenship for themselves and their families. This naturally complicated relations between the nascent United States and Canada, but given how both countries had their own problems to deal with, things remained largely cordial.
>Fuck me, this is going on a bit... May need to take a break
>>44937023 Well, it always struck me as crazy that Hitler declared war on the US, even though his military advisers pleaded with him not to. Imagine no 'World War', but the very separate and different Second Great War, and the Pacific War, happening at the same time. America would still have been putting trade embargoes on Japan, so yes, they would probably still have attacked Pearl Harbor. For a while, they steamrolled the colonies of European nations that were too busy at home to deal with distant islands. Oppenheimer & Enrico Fermi worked on British Blue Sky projects rather than the Manhattan Project, so the US had to follow through with a brutal coastal landing on Japan. The Japanese fight until almost the last man, costing the US almost 4 times as many soldiers as in real life. The Emperor finally surrenders, and is forced to stand down in favour of an American administration. Japan is stripped of what little remains of their military, but they are left in control of large tracts of China and Korea, which eventually come under American hegemony. Without American aid, the European War drags on for another few years, until the Eastern Front collapses entirely and the Soviets crush Berlin, establishing their own dominance of Central Europe and Eastern Europe, and engaging in 're-structuring' of the Balkans, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Italy, Norway and Vichy France
>>44936570 >camels and horses, originally evolved in America - crossing over through the Russian-Alaskan landbridge around 10,000 years ago, after which their American counterparts went extinct. The American descendants of camels were the llamas, of which there are many species more than of the camel line. They aren't suitable for riding though.
>Where was I? >>44937201 Following the revolution, Canadian population swelled, as displaced Iroquois who had fought for the British, fled the vengeful Americans and joined their old enemies, the Huron, in Canadian citizenship. The American idea of separating church and state however, went a long way towards healing the wounds the Great Awakening had inflicted upon Canada, when it was adopted by the Canadian constitution, which was penned shortly after the Americans wrote their own and it was recognised as a vitally important document by their northern neighbors.
Over the next few years, Canada slowly consolidated itself and became by degrees more representative. In 1794, following the reign of King Harold 'The Lackluster' Lakin, the hereditary monarchy was quietly dissolved. Lackluster he may have been, but Harold was also well aware that dying, as he did, childless, would jeopardise the realm and so established the Low Council, giving common people a voice in government via the election of representatives for fixed geographic districts. He also empowered the High Council of nobility the power to elect every new monarch since that time. Candidates were at first limited to noble bloodlines and the royal family, but this would later change. After the end of the Lakin dynasty, in an astonishing turn of events, Rowtag of the Mi'kmaq Algonquin was elected as sovereign ruler of Canada. Within Canada, this was surprising, but not outright shocking. Rowtag had been raised in a very modern community and had only slight cultural ties to his people's tribal past, mostly limited to religious beliefs; other than that, he was as western as any of his people could be. Outside of Canada however, this placed a 'savage' in charge of a territoriality expansive, relatively advanced power on the American continent. This immediately caused tensions to spike and coupled with American territorial pressure and Canada's trade with England cutting into American profits, lead to war.
>>44939526 The War of 1812 was a wake-up-call for Canada. They had known war was coming for some time and had been purchasing arms from Great Britain, but the Napoleonic Wars in Europe meant their supplies had dropped drastically. Despite an attack on Toronto via Detroit being soundly smashed, the US army out-numbered the Canadians and the Canadians southern ally, Tekumseh was thoroughly beaten by the USA. Finally however, after the Napoleonic War ended, Canada indebted itself to Great Britain in order to purchase surplus warships and launched a series of attacks on US cities, including Washington itself, that finally brought the USA to the negotiating table. Despite Canada's defeat, no territory changed hands as a result of the war, however the USA did force trade concessions on Canada and also demanded that the low council be given a say in electing the monarch and that commoners should be eligible to stand for the position. Canada capitulated on these points, but then immediately instituted the National Hierarchy and Canadian Examinations of Merit. This measure, which remains in place today, made certain that Canadians could not rise above their station by anything other than holding the qualifications required. Commoners could theoretically become king, but were required to meet the minimum requirements to stand for the position. Naturally, this system has had to undergo several purges, as especially in the early days, corruption was rampant with bribes exchanging hands as a matter of course. Indeed, the system only became truly reliable for anything but the very highest and most scrutinised positions, in the closing days of the 19th century.
>>44939537 With the war of 1812 however, Canada had found a new rival in America and immediately embarked on a campaign of national strengthening. Education, industrialisation, military and infrastructure expansion became the highest priorities of the nation. Exports quadrupled in the ten years following the war and the value of the Canadian Crown boomed. As the USA began to expand westwards, Canada determined that it was its duty to oppose this expansion and so began the 'Race to the Coast'. Canadians were hampered by their sudden reversal of their historically friendly policy of non-interference with the local tribes, but were able to successfully claim what in our timeline would be northern Minnesota, North Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Washington and Oregon. In addition to this, they formed very strong ties with the natives in the USA's new territory and when the Plains Wars broke out, sold arms and supplies to the natives at a loss, purely to slow America's 'imperial ambitions'. The irony of this was, of course, that by this point, the position of 'king' had been eclipsed by the title of 'Emperor' as Canada declared itself an empire that encompassed the breadth of North America. Displaced natives were eagerly absorbed by Canada, but while at first the welcome the natives received seemed earnest, the nation's rapid expansion had brought with it a wave of cultural superiority that began to attempt to 're-educate' the Sioux, Cheyenne, Crow, Blackfoot, Salish and other tribes that had joined their empire.
>>44939557 Only the rise of the Hunkpapa leader Sitting Bull and his impassioned plea to the Emperor to respect his people's traditions ended the practice. Almost overnight, every re-education school was closed and the 'Horror Treaty' was signed, in which Canada admitted full responsibility for its actions and promised compensation to the displaced tribes. As propaganda, this treaty was a major victory for the Untied States, which painted Canada as weak for submitting to the demands of savages.
Despite these setbacks, Canada's reach continued to expand and Canadian goods soon reached across the pacific. Finally, in 1909, Canada finished paying off its MONSTROUS debt to Great Britain for the ships that had ended the War of 1812. Canadian technology, science and natural philosophy was considered to be, if not the best, then certainly among the forerunners of developed nations, such as Germany, Britain and the USA.
When WW1 broke out, Canada initially maintained neutrality, but tensions had again been rising with the USA and Emperor Gale Moreno decided that the perfect way to ward off war, would be to show the USA exactly who it was up against, in a controlled and limited manner. Thus, a joint agreement was signed with Britain and France to essentially provide Canadian mercenaries to fight on the Western Front. Despite being unused to trench warfare, Canada had little tradition of military history to cling to (apart from a few small skirmishes with the US cavalry during the Plains Wars) and so adapted quickly to the challenge.
>>44940022 In June of 1916, just two months before the British would deploy tanks at the Battle of the Somme, Canada unleashed its own variants at the Battle of Verdun and later at The Somme. Troop-carrying Canadian armoured half-tracks and Heavy Fighting Vehicles (the Canadian designation for tanks until 1940) encountered limited success at Verdun, due to the muddy terrain, however parachuted special forces composed of largely Native soldiers and covert offensives under cover of darkness (co-ordinated by squad radio), as well as mobile fire support and special weapons helped avoid disaster. Later, alongside British troops at the Somme, the Canadian advantage was enough to smash the German trench lines, until heavy artillery fire ground the offensive to a halt. As mercenaries, Canada had no say in the Treaty of Versailles and profited little from the way. However, war with the USA failed to materialise and so Emperor Gale's plan was lauded as a success.
Sadly, the Great Depression destroyed the spirit of triumph in Canada. The royal government very nearly broke under the strain and the country once again found itself deeply in debt as it desperately tried to prop up its failing economy. Just as it seemed things were starting to recover however, the Nazi party took power in Europe, following the Night of Long Knives and immediately, Canadian intelligence took note. Having been focused on domestic problems throughout the depression, Canada was shocked to find the direction the world was heading and immediately started arming for war. The USA obviously took this motion as hostile, but Canada desperately assured them that their arms were not directed south. Things eased off slightly, when Canadian troops rushed to support Poland during Germany's invasion. Despite Canadian technology and support, the Poles ultimately still surrendered and Canadian troops were forced to withdraw.
>>44940037 The Canadian navy was outright anemic at this point, containing not a single battleship and only two aircraft carriers. As the Canadians were re-deploying to assist the Netherlands, the Kriegsmarine caught up and systematically crushed them at the Battle of the Frisian Islands, sinking the IMS Golden Horn - Canada's only battlecruiser, as well as 80% of destroyers and cruisers present and 40% of the troop transports containing the remains of the Polish Expedition. The Canadian Atlantic Fleet was forced to limp away, up the coast of Britain and anchored in the Firth of Forth, Scotland. Canada immediately declared unilateral and unlimited support for the British Empire against Germany, despite the losses keeping the majority of their forces in Canada.
It would take until American entry into the war, before Canada considered the sea lanes safe enough to send more troops to Great Britain, in preparation for D-Day. Following the attack on Pearl Harbor, Canada joined the United States in war against Japan, given their Pacific Fleet was as-yet untouched. All proceeded well and much as in our own timeline, with the exception of the Battle of Midway. After a Canadian spy plane was shot down, under torture, it's pilot yielded the American plan to lure the Japanese into a trap. After much debate, the Japanese refused the engagement, thus preserving much of their fleet strength and slowing the end of the war in the Pacific. In 1946 however, American marines pressed close enough to be able to launch air strikes at the Japanese mainland. By this point, Canada knew about Project Manhattan, partly due to spy work that failed to penetrate the project proper, but identified the loose idea of it and partly through necessary co-ordination with the Americans for the weapon's deployment.
>>44940203 Once they became aware of the sheer obliterative power of atomic weaponry, Canada immediately opposed its deployment, even going to far as to warn Japan of an imminent attack by "a weapon of such overwhelming destructive power that it offends the very soul of the Emperor to conscience its use," and begged the Japanese to consider peace. Terms failed to materialise however and Hiroshima was destroyed, despite Canadian protestations. Shocked at the act, the Canadians immediately severed all ties with the United States and warned them against further use of nuclear weapons.
This warning was ignored however. On August 9th, 1945, Nagasaki was erased from existence and Canada immediately declared war on America.
This 'Second Day of Infamy' was significantly more effective than the first. Ships that had until hours before been allies immediately turned their guns on US ships and demanded surrender or destruction. Despite the lack of battleships in the Canadian fleet, the advantage of surprise and positioning was total and the majority of the US Navy was either scuttled or struck their colours. On land, the majority of the US forces were concentrated in Europe or the Pacific Islands, allowing the bottlenecked Canadian forces to be rapidly re-directed south into the barely defended American heartland. While the Canadian 4th Armoured rampaged through the midwest, cutting the United States in half, the 3rd Army under Lieutenant-General Joe Medicine Crow crushed its way down the east coast. Boston, New York and Philadelphia all fell within the first two weeks, with Baltimore being briefly occupied, just 30 miles north of Washington DC, before the US Army was able to rally and push the Canadian forces back to the siege of Philadelphia.
>The Invincible Armada manages to reach England. >Catholicism is restored in Britain >As a result, continental Protestantism never gets its strong ally >Colonialism is now almost exclusively Catholic >Entire planet under control of the Church
>>44940498 With the United States distracted, the USSR was able to claim the entirety of Germany before anyone could say otherwise and in a move that would haunt Canada for many years to come, made tentative agreements to supply Canada with raw materials and the captive German genius, Wherner von Braun, in exchange for 170 miles of Alaskan coast and the Aleutian Islands. Meanwhile, Canada forged an agreement with the crippled Japan, promising peace with the USSR and protection from US attack, in exchange for Japanese battleship and carrier support. Having little choice but to deal with the devil, Japan agreed and with Canadian support, were able to strike the Californian coast and even traded away the Battleship Musashi, sister ship of the legendary Yamato.
The United States was enraged however and refused to give in. They considered nuclear action against Toronto, but rightly deduced that this would only incite Canada to further lengths to strike at the United States. Canadian special forces struck far beyond their means to support themselves, in order to eliminate the Los Alamos laboratory where fissile materials could be refined, losing some 1300 troops in the desperate effort to neuter the United States nuclear plans. Following this strike, the two countries raced for nuclear capabilities, but it was not the atom that was to end the war.
>>44940795 Following his surrender to the Canadians, Wherner von Braun was immediately given the task of re-creating his V2 rocket and the full weight of Canada's technological base was behind him. By 1949, he had successfully replicated the design and by the following year, improved upon it. Fitted with the first generation of thermobaric warheads, these weapons were used to great effect against the US Atlantic fleet and later against Mt. Rushmore, as an ill-considered demonstration. The damage to a national monument further enraged the US, but with Canada offering terms and Communism spreading in Europe and Asia, as well as to their own shores,the United States begrudgingly agreed to peace.
The treaty was signed on February 14th 1951 and shortly thereafter, Emperor Gale, Canada's longest-ruling monarch, was found dead. Coroner's reports stated it was simply due to exhaustion. Japan was placed under Canada's sphere of influence by the treaty as a 'protectorate'. To cement this alliance, Emperor Ashton Harper married Princess Taka of the Empire of Japan, ensuring close co-operation between the two countries.
During the Cold War, Canada proved a third power, comparable to the United States and USSR, focusing its efforts mainly on preventing another disastrous war and advocating nuclear non-proliferation, preferring to focus arms development on potent conventional weapons. Canadian aid workers flooded Japan after the war, avoiding famine, helping to reform the diet and assisting greatly in the cleanup of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. To this day, Canada has research facilities in both cities, working on ways to scrub radiation from the environment and living beings. Canada participated in the space race, much to von Braun's delight, but a security leak and safety concerns meant that they were a mere seven days behind the American's Apollo 11 launch. More efficient engine designs closed the gap between landings to six days, but it was still a bitter pill to swallow.
>>44940941 The close contest between the United States and Canada, especially as the USSR collapsed under its own weight, spurred technology years ahead of what we see today. Both countries have permanent research bases on the moon and zero-g construction facilities in orbit. A joint manned mission to Mars left on August 7th, 2015 and is expected to reach the red planet in late 2017. Public co-operation aside, there is still a great deal of mistrust between Canada and it's southern neighbor, both of whom blame the other for the 'Nagasaki War'. Canada's relations with Russia have remained cool at best and outright diplomatically hostile at worst and the country relentlessly condemns meddling in the Middle East leading to the rise of Islamic terror groups. Debate currently rages in the Low and High Councils whether to seek a diplomatic solution, or enforce peace with a military mission.
>God that was long. >Anyone have anything to ask or say? >Anything? Anything at all?
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