>Humans are the "charismatic" race
Why does every RPG system do this? Is it because CHA is the blandest stat out there, making humans bland so all the other races are unique by comparison?
>making humans bland so all the other races are unique by comparison?
Well, this is kinda how you design the races stat-wise. We see those games from our own human eyes and thus judge them from our perspective. The other races are extreme version of ourself.
Though this is not an excuse for making the human cultures and factions boring and mundane.
If I would design a game, I would give humans the best stamina
and also incorporate stamina as a game-mechanicand something like +1 willpower, making them a save choice and kinda jack-of-all-trades that still can have an edge in something above other races.
Humans should be Always Neutral Evil and have a constitution bonus. We can survive in almost any environment and spend all our time trying to conquer and dominate each other for our advancement.
Actually, Elves are usually the charismatic race. Idk what shit you're playing. Humans are the race that gets a free trait, more edge, or something along those lines, because they're the most adaptable.
I dont know what TTRPGs you've been playing but it isn't any i'm aware of.
2e D&D: no stats, baseline
3.x: the skilled race with bonus skill point and a feat
4e: skilled race with bonus to any one stat. They can choose to be charismatic but arent solely forced to be.
PF: skilled race with bonus to any one stat
5e: +1 to all stats
Im not even sure there are other games with other races that are as popular as D&D. And the few I know of dont have humans with bonus Charisma.
Now the races that are charismatic are:
2e: Pixie, Bladeback Saurial, Tiefling
3.x: Aasimar and probably some random races from splats.
4e: Dragonborn, Half-elf, Hobgoblin, Halfling, Drow, Goblin, Tiefling, Doppelganger, Gnome
PF: Gnome, Halfling, Aasimar, Catfolk, Dhampir, Drow, Fetchling, Ifrit, Changeling(hagspawn, not shapeshifters), Kitsune, Nagaji, Suli, Vishkanya
>Humanity is the boring adaptable race, not the boring charismatic race.
You mean the adaptable race. I don't really understand why you felt the need to throw in "boring" there.
The majority of the most "exciting" builds are humans. Their adaptability enables a wide variety of interesting play styles, and humans tend to be the most popular race for players in almost every single game that allows you to play as them.
I could possibly understand if you tried to say that dwarves are boring, even if I wouldn't personally agree, but calling humans boring because they show variety and aren't pigeonholed into an author's shallow interpretation of humanity just isn't fair.
This seems to be more common a portrayal in sci-fi setting than fantasy - and the explanation is almost always the humans were the race that lead all the other races into some sort of Sci-Fi UN thing when they were previously divided
That's what I thought when reading the OP. Not sure what systems OP is playing, but humans are almost always the jacks-of-all-trades.
Which is even more bland and boring than being charismatic.
It's the other way around.
>Need farmland but area is heavily forested? cut the forest down?
>Desert no water? dig a fucking well
>Pesky demihumans/humans bothering you? kill em to shut em up
Should be an int bonus for terraforming and thinking of ingenious ways of disposing things they don't like
It's "boring" because it's common, and special snowflakes don't like starting from common.
>this character is boring, it needs heterochromia, daddy issues, alien uncle, father involved in regicidal conspiracy and pathological fear of green glass. Oh, and it is an orphan that was regularly beaten by its evil stepmo- no that's too common and boring. He was raped by fell nuns with a strapon. Yeah. And to make him non-mary sue he is incapable of using any magic and needs time and tutoring to learn how to use complex technological devices.
the last time i tried to mash together a quick homebrew system for some newbies who wanted a "classic rpg experience" i tried to think about what edge to give humans.
in order to make it feel "classic" (and i guess to draw on something these newbies might already be familiar with) i thought about Lord of the Rings, since it's the inspiration for about 50% of original D&D games. so what role do humans play?
elves and dwarves are shown as powerful races which refuse to work together. halflings are too content to mind their own business and get high. the only reason there's a party of people willing to come together and get shit done, is the humans. they're the party glue.
so i said in my quickie system that humans were better leaders, more inspiring, able to negotiate peace, or in general, more charismatic. lazy of me? probably. but i'm guessing that's where people would get the idea that humans get a charisma boost.
bland? well, it's not like you wouldn't have made a thread whining about something no matter what we all tried to do in our systems to make you happy, so whatever.
You mean that a few people planned out what trees to cut down (bonus to Int), others cut the trees down (bonus to Con), others hauled them to a river (bonus to Str), and some ride them down river to sell (bonus to Dex), others knew how to pacify the spirits (bonus to Wis), and others knew how to sell the wood (bonus to Cha). In other words, the current stats for them make perfect sense with how humanity is represented within the game.
Your suggestion is only good for a civ game and even then its still retarded as all races would be good at terraforming their surroundings to better match their needs.
and now that i'm reading my own words i'm thinking that the party glue was mostly Gandalf, who is some kind of lame angel in disguise as a human, and the actual humans were really pretty divisive. oh well. it made sense when i wrote it, thirty seconds ago.
the humans in LotR do seem to have some kind of energy or spirit that the other races are said to lack, which leads to humans being the race that goes out and does shit. not sure how to put that into a game mechanic. not charisma or really adaptability either.
No, what you do is give humans an unmodified level of stamina, and every other race has a malus. Commit to the human perspective: We don't have lots of stamina, it's just everything else tires easily.
It's a picture of her from a year ago, before she got that fixed.
If humans are the average race...
>HURR BLAND SHIT
If humans are the smart race...
>HURR WESTERN TECHNOLOGY AMIRITE
If humans are the strong race...
>HURR HUMANITY FUCK YEAR
In short, roleplayers are easily triggered
Personally, I'd write humans as the crazy race. The species that will eat, drink, smoke or fuck pretty much anything, will get in fights for no goddamn reason, and basically baffle and horrify the Elves and Dorfs with their ridiculous bullshit at every turn. As a result, Humans and Orcs actually get along alright.
Most humans I meet are not charismatic. Are they saying that everyone else are huge assholes?
This threat got me wondering something that's kind of related.
Humans in DnD, and most other RPGs for that matter, tend to be the "average" stat race (ie. humans don't get bonuses or penalties to any particular stat, while other races get bonuses to certain stats and penalties to others), which does make sense from a writing point of view since the writers and readers are human and therefore would naturally consider humans to be the baseline to compare other races to (ie. elves are more dextrous than humans, orcs are stronger but less smart than humans, dwarves are shorter than humans etc.).
But I started wondering if humans actually are the average race, since there are so many other races with different stat bonuses that they might move the average away from the human statline.
Like, in DnD 3.5/PF (any similar system would do, but people are very familiar with those and they have a ton of playable races) let's say the average human has 10 on all his stats due to that being the statistical average roll, while the average elf would have 12 dex and 8 con due to the racial bonuses/penalties. But there are a ton of elf subraces, almost all of which get +dex and -con, which might be enough to shift the average stats of playable races to higher than 10 dex and lower than 10 con.
Has anybody actually determined what would be the stats of the true "average PC race" (ie. take the average ability scores of all PC races and calculate their average)?
I was bored enough to do this with the core races (human, dwarf, elf, gnome, half-elf, half-orc and halfling) of both PF and 3.5. They give slightly different results since in 3.5 average humans and half-elves have 10 to all their attributes, and other races get +2 to one and -2 to one, except half-orcs who get +2 to one and and -2 to two attributes. Meanwhile in PF average human, half-elf and half-orc all have ~10.3333 to all their attributes (as they get a +2 to one attribute of their choise) and other races get +2 to two and -2 to one attribute.
The average statline in both cases is close to 10 for most stats, except for Dex in both games (rounds up to 11) and Cha in 3.5 (rounds down to 9).
Still, PF humans have slightly lower than average score in all attributes except str, where they have slightly higher than average, with dex being most notably lower than average.
3.5 humans on the other hand have slightly lower than average dex and con, and slightly higher than average str, int and cha (most notably cha), while their wis is completely average.
So at least compared to the core races humans aren't actually completely average. In PF humans are stronger than average but below average in other way, while in 3.5 they have above average strenght and mental stats (except wis which is average) and below average constitution and dexterity.
I'm going to do the same thing for the 5th edition PHB races which should give different results as humans actually have higher than statistical average on all stats but not as high as other races for any particular stat, and there's more subraces in the book.
Compared to 5th edition PHB races (half-elves, half-orcs, dragonborn, tieflings, two variants of dwarves, gnomes and halflings and three variants of elves) humans (who as mentioned have an average of 11 to all attributes, compared to other races who have 10 to most, 11 to one and 12 to one, except half-elves who have 12 to one and 10.4 to others) are actually above average at everything (with average for most attributes being around 10.5 - 10.6), although not as good at anything in particular, than other races. 5th edition humans are therefore pretty much the "jack of all trades, master of none" race.
The highest stat humans have compared to average is wisdom (average ~10.2) and lowest dexterity (average ~10.9). Aside from wisdom, humans are still the closest to the "average race" as rounded to nearest whole number the "average race" has 11 on all stats except 10 on wis.
>some retarded bullshit that upsets autistic manchildren because they have no imagination
Why do shitposter do this? Is it for attention? Is it because they need someone to hold their hand while playing make believe?
I like it. I see it more as unknown potential. You gonna be a blacksmith or a diplomat? or a nomad or a farmer or a scribe or a clock maker? A puppet, a pauper, a pirate, a poet, a pawn or a king? No matter what problem needs to be solved or job needs to get done, someone's going to be able to do it better.
But a human will always do in a pinch
Sure, physical attributes can affect stats. Dwarfs would surely have potentially different stats than an elf. But surely the character's background, social status, environment, etc. affects their traits, abilities and personality more than "he's an elf, elves are like X."
The more fleshed out a race, the more this would hold true. But no matter how hard you try, no one's going to be as fleshed out as humans. And getting across multiple racial histories takes time and attention that could be put to use elsewhere.
It's easier to stereotype and caricature and move on. Otherwise you get shitty differences like how black guys are more prone to heart disease
It's boring BECAUSE it is adaptable and fit for the best choice most of the time. You are boring BECAUSE you can grab that all important skill at first level that no one else can.
Elves are dextrous and good at magic.
Dwarves are strong and good at crafting.
Humans are good at whatever they need to be good at.
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is lame.
This is not the first time I've seen this thread, and I've never understood where the OP was coming from, because no /tg/ has them as that. They SHOULD, but purely because of the "common" language being the HUMAN language, and all that implies. Humans are a young race that just came in and went "hey, this is what everyone speaks now", and became the most common race in the world. Fucking Charisma if I ever did see it. They are also half EVERYTHING.
>being good at whatever you need to be good at is lame
Fascinating. Someone has built a time machine and used it to find an extinct hominid that competed with our ancestors but ultimately failed to adapt to changing conditions, then brought it back to our time and taught it how to shitpost.
Fascinating. You're an idiot.
Being good at whatever you need to be good at is lame. "This race is good at whatever" is fucking boring.
Sure, it's a good trait to have in real life, but we're talking about a fucking pprpg. The ways you can descirbe this trait either make it sound like a snowflake, or a coddled child, but never interesting.
"Unlimited potential." "Infinitely adaptable."
"You can be WHATEVER you want to be when you grow up, sweety."
Please, tell me what makes "you are good at X because your race is adaptable and you chose/needed to be good at X" so much worse than "you are good at X because your race is good at X", paranthropus boisei, because your strawman narrative just isn't working for me.
>Why does every RPG system do this?
Because the game has to have all non-human races be reskinned humans, or plebs won't play it. So that kinda limits what might make humans special when everybody else is a human with bigger muscles or a swimming speed.
If I bothered writing a setting in the done-to-death paradigm of "humans and other 'races' ", I'd try stuff like
>most sentient races in the universe come from huge planets with high gravity, therefore most spacefaring races are generally bulky and muscular compared to us. earth is an anomaly in that it supported a sentient race despite being small/low gravity, therefore humans are the tiny but fast race. most aliens seem like stories-high behemoths to us
>most sentient species in the universe tend to come from smaller planets and are alcohol based, thus being smaller and with shorter lifespans. carbon-based earth lifeforms are an anomaly, and our huge planet/gravity makes earth organisms pretty big and tough. humans are the stupid but hardy race, valued as mercenaries among the older, more established races, but less refined and knowledgeable because of our relatively recent access to space and limited cognitive capabilities. space orcs
One, you need to look up some of the terms you are using.
Two, if it was any race other than human with that trait, everyone would call it a special snowflake race, complain about people using it, and bitch about how it is best for the most builds. So, I guess I'm just looking at it about how it should be treated mechanically, instead of looking at the fluff.
Three, you seriously are an idiot.
If you want to pick the low hanging fruit.
Or just make your race determine your physical characteristics and leave everything else to where you come and what do you do. You can always have descriptions of the elven kingdom where everyone's a prudish asshole, but that doesn't mean every elf is a prudish asshole, just people from said kingdom. Even if they're not elves. And elves who've lived elsewhere can be way different. And if your character is a soldier, smith or a medicine man, would also affect their skills, attributes and look on life.
>Two, if it was any race other than human with that trait, everyone would call it a special snowflake race
Because we know that adaptability is OUR trait, boisei. It would be no different than a race that's more elven than elves, more dwarven than dwarves, more orcish than orcs, etc.
>Because we know that adaptability is OUR trait
WHY? Isn't that the point of this thread? We make our trait adaptability to make us "avarage". You're fucking happy about humans being the "vanilla". Adaptability should be a trait of any race that survived evolution, because it is kind of NEEDED. Humans being the adaptable race is boring and shit world building.
>Most fantasy games have races split into subraces because of evolution, and some races that are distant relatives of different races or monsters.
>We are talking about humans in /tg/, including scifi.
Your arguement is shit.
You got it backwards.
Higher gravity would make smaller, faster creatures. The aliens would need to be from low gravity world where you can grow taller and move slower because everything's kind of floaty
Yeah, we had dinosaurs, but on average I think less gravity=taller, slower
>elf god creates the elves
>in his great wisdom, he creates different variants for different biomes
It's a moot point, since a specialized species can be highly successful and carry on indefinitely if the right change that it can't handle never comes along. Sharks have changed very little in the past few eons, but if the oceans dry up they're fucked. Well, we're all fucked if the oceans dry up, but hopefully you possess enough functioning brain cells to understand the point I'm making.
>giving a shit about scifi
>but hopefully you possess enough functioning brain cells to understand the point I'm making.
>The reason humans are like this in everything is because in one specifc type of setting you can just say magic did it.
How many you got kicking around?
I'm done with this arguement, you're an idiot, and we don't need this thread sticking around when nobody else cares.
I agree on the smalelr part, but not faster. High gravity would make movement more difficult, and falling or tripping over would be far more dangerous due to much smaller fall than on Erath-like gravity being enough to cause potentially lethal damage.
I'd imagine creatures from a high gravity planet would be small, compact and slow-moving. You probably would not see an upright bipedal being, but four- or more legged beings (or beings without feet at all, like slugs) with flattened bodies.
If anything humans should be the heavy worlders, barring a more advanced species 'rescuing' an intelligent species from a high G world Earth is at the high end of practical low tech space travel.
That sounds fine, stats from your upbringing and profession. Then it's your culture that gives you your Charisma and Intelligence and so on. Which sounds better, but I think the whole thing is that the different races are shorthand for different cultures. How different is it to say "Vikings are big and strong and rape and pillage" or "Americans are loud and fat, but have lots of guns" or "Japanese are xenophobic, but have good tech"?
I think either one's fine, I like the 'everyone's a whole person' thing but I think it's all about readability, and how you can say "she's an elf" the same way you can say "he's British" and immediately get an idea of how they'll act or how to treat them. Even if that idea is completely wrong.
That kind of shorthand is really useful
By faster, I mean more agile. Everything falls faster in high G so you'd need faster reflexes to catch yourself or anything else.
Imagine you going to a high-gravity world and trying to move. You'd be heavier than you are now, and each step would be exhausting
Now imagine you go to a low-gravity world. You're lighter, it takes less energy to hold you up, to lift your legs to run.
In either case, whoever is from the higher-gravity world is going to be at an advantage. They're used to using more energy to do the same work.
I always took it as being "Humans are the youngest and least 'special' race, but also the most adaptable and open to change". Goblins, Gnomes, Orcs, Dwarves, Elves and the like all have their very old, very set ways and specialties. Dwarves are stubborn bastards who like to drink and have a penchant for smithing. Elves are aloof and haughty with a penchant for magic and a disdain for anything non-elvish.
Then Humans come along and know that to survive in a world populated by these longer-lived and better-skilled races, they have to become friends with as many of them as possible. They set out to forge alliances and bring the various races together because otherwise they will likely be in conflict with races that could easily stamp them out, as well as the fact that if a Dwarf-Elf war broke out, it could rage for centuries and generations of humanity would live in suffering while it went on, *if* humanity survived the crossfire at all.
So yeah, they're very young, very eager to make friends and keep peace, and they have a unique sense of wonder about the world that races who live for centuries wouldn't understand. They offer a viewpoint that the other races might not have, and I get the feeling that Elves and Dwarves at least might find this particular outlook quaint and charming, if not downright endearing.
They also accomplish much in their society in a very short amount of time, because they operate on a different timescale. A dwarf might be impressed that a human of a scant 50 years has already sired a handful of children, opened and subsequently passed on a business of his own and then retired comfortably to live out his days in relative peace, where a 50 year old dwarf might just be considered an adult for the first time.
Basically, think of it as the older races looking at humans as cute little kids at first until they realize that they have a wisdom unique to themselves because of the way their lives work.
But it's also very troublesome, because it also stifles thinking outside the box. All dwarfs are stoic Scottish vikings. All elves are hippie faggots who use bows. No matter where they come from or who they are. It's fine when talking about groups, but when you have to do with individuals, like PC's, it gets a little limiting.
Didn't those FFG 40k books have a whole host of character creation with home world, social status, etc. which factored into the character stats? Something like that. Either have ready made ones or allow players to craft their own, but with some limits. So if you take one of the ready made options regarding hometown, upbringing, profession, etc. you get more benefits than if you craft the benefits from individual points, which in turn gives you more freedom and enables to come up with stuff the devs might have not thought of.
Higher gravity would make stocky, sturdy creatures with thick muscular structures and strong endoskeletons.
A humanoid species from a high-gravity world would, on their own planet, move at a reasonable rate and be about as tough as most other things (weaker sometimes, in the case of wildlife) but once transferred to our Earth gravity they would appear to be super strong, fast, and durable compared to anything on our world because they are no longer compensating for the high gravity slowing them down. That is, until they turned into the people from Wall-E after a long time in a lower gravity without constant fitness.
Speaking on wildlife, their equivalent of rats could chew through whatever stronger material their planet has. Which means if someone let them loose on an earth-gravity or lower ship, you'd probably wind up with some pretty mean pests.
It depends, but a lower-gravity world might hold less oxygen than a higher gravity one. This wouldn't be so much of a problem in space ships that could pump oxygen into a closed space, but they might need a rebreather or NANOMACHINES when on an actual low-grav planet.
And by hold I mean that oxygen would escape easier if it's not being held down by the high gravity. Assuming they're used to a more oxygen-rich environment, this would be a problem in ones that are less so.
Again, it depends on the precise nature of the species and the planet, but I'm assuming humanoid and generally human-like.
There's a great Humanity, Fuck Yeah story about it called The Kevin Jenkins Experience. People liked it enough to write in the same universe and the original author came back and wrote even more. There are like 8 stories in that universe and they're all pretty good
Pretty sure it's more to do with air pressure. I mean, when you're high up on a mountain, it's not really that there's less oxygen, it's simply that the pressure is lower and since it's the pressure difference between your body and the atmosphere that helps oxygen molecules to pass from the air into your blood, there's less of this happening and you get winded more easily. Or so I've read.
A high gravity world would not have to have a high atmospheric pressure or even rich in oxygen. We have planets that are smaller than Earth with very high pressures, so surely we can have larger planets with 1 atmosphere of pressure or less on the surface?
This is true, hence my 'might'. It's entirely dependent on the world they come from and how they work physiologically.
In fairness, a lot of this is speculation, and I'm by no means a professional, I've just spoken with some people who are.
By the way, if you get a chance, talk to an astrophysicist about sci-fi. The cool ones love that stuff and can give you some really interesting information on how things like space battles might work.
My GM ran a Homebrew like this once. Humans were an invading interdimensional race, (think witcher) who were giants compared to the other sentient races of that world. Large colonies of unwashed confused humans just started showing up out of the blue wrecking shit. Until they got adopted by this benevolent fae like race . Who acted like an overbearing but really loving mother to the whole of humanity. Most of the races on the planet were child sized but humans were still heavy hitters because it was a low gravity world or something and they were use to martial conflict while the other races weren't. Humans couldn't do magic but they were really resilient towards it. Most worked as laborers but a lot of humans became monster hunters and royal guards. Humanities benefactors, the little green fae race didn't like when they turned back towards violence too make a living and they really didn't need the humans hunting monsters in order to make their lands safe like the other races did. They had a powerful glamour which basically played on every creatures parental instincts. Everything that interacted with them saw'em as their young. So most monsters wouldn't attack one of the green fae. They were way to over protective of humans and wouldn't even let them leave their lands for the first 50 years of the human occupation. Going as far as lying to us about the outside world saying that we would die if we left the forest A lot of the other races really hated and feared us though and would have wiped us at if we weren't under protection. It was a fun game.
I had two ideas to portray humans in setting.
>Migrants from another galaxy, huge on gene-engineering and augmenting themselves with biomechanical jazz. Rather reclusive and xenophobic, small in number, reliant in cloning for reproduction. Best doctors in galaxy.
>Fantasy, sorta modernish
>Number uno magical race, who unfortunately lost their casting ability some thousand years ago. They are still resistant to magical contamination, and are about the smartest of civilized species - although they barely count as one, since they only have a small nation, and lot of them are vagrants and travelers.
>Rather reclusive and xenophobic
Reclusive and xenophobic? You know the crusades are over, right? I mean, COME ON! IT'S THE YEAR 4216!
Hey man, we just started accepting different colored humans.
Ain't no way we're sharing this new hype space universe thing with the blue squid lizard-looking folk.
They look weird and eat weird food and i'm pretty sure they'd take away human jobs.
I did this kind of setting.
Me and my pal rolled casually a halfling fighter and a kobold wizard. Then a friend came along and rolled a goblin gunslinger. At that point we decided that the world we were in was supposed to have only small size races as common races: goblins and halflings, both riding dogs, wolves and goats, and the kobolds and gnomes, both dwelling underground and mining shit and using earth magic.
We are currently exploring ruins of a huge, ancient city of the giants that ruled the worlds aeons before.
We all agreed that, though our characters don't know that, the giants we're talking about are the dwarves.