>>44890371 My overall beef with Drow is that while the Underdark is a cruel and borderline inhospitable place, the Drow themselves don't seem to put much of a premium on the lives of their own race. I get that they're evil but honestly that 'evil' should be far more focused on other races than on trying to murderise each other.
>>44892401 We mostly see the nobles and the priesthood, two classes closest to Lol and two classes traditionally completely removed from the lives of their subjects. Drow peasants or footsoldiers probably can't afford to be retarded chucklefucks. They have to take care of each other and their kids instead of just stabbing every back they see for short-term benefit or divine favor of a crazy evil demon bitch who gets off on treason.
>>44896482 >GATE >drowtales Or how about not? How about merchant drow? They can't create societies above ground, but they can build buildings which the sun doesn't shine into. The huge differences in climate and ecosystem would make for some awesomely profitable spice trade, I imagine.
>>44896875 Caravans, exchange around the entrance/exit, abovegrounders caravan it to nearest port. A dangerous business, for sure, because anyone in the Underdark or aboveground would love to lay their hands on those caravans.
>>44897400 And perhaps these Drow are members of a certain house or faction which is looking to move away from the tenets of Lolth and gain further power through less regulated trade (as Lolth only permits a certain level of trade due to the whole "drow stronk womyn who needs nobody else")?
>>44900586 This is my favorite version of the drow. Their goddess is insane. Their society exists only because Lolth makes it exists. She is overwhelmingly the most active of all the deities in the pantheon, but all that effort is expended into making drow dance and suffer and die solely for her amusement.
The Underdark isn't some Soviet Slavic nation. It's North Korea.
>>44901104 Take this for instance, Drow society is basically a slightly muted Commoragh. It's so nasty that it should be actively hostile to its inhabitants, Drow society should have collapsed, but it hasn't because there is one incredibly powerful fucker in charge who keeps the whole sorry mess limping along because they find it amusing to do so.
My current Drow has an Eastern European accent because I like the idea of them having a weird accent and I found the concept funny, but they're more like people escaping from North Korea or a Moonie style cult; they should be fucked up beyond belief and shocked to the core when they finally realise how insane their idea of normal really is.
>>44890371 Easy as shit. Just ditch the Underdark and Lloth or Lolth or whatever the fuck the spider goddess is called. None of that shit is drow, that shit is Forgotten Realms.
The core of drow is 'dark or black skinned elves' That's it.
Eberron drow - jungle fighters par excellence with a thing for scorpions and jungle poisons.
Eastern European drow - as per >>44890442 work as a comedic twist on FR drow.
You can do drow as simply nocturnal elves. They live in the same communities, doing the same things, but they have diametrically opposed sleep schedules.
Drow as traders, using underdark tunnels or shadow planar portals for trade that can't be interrupted by simple bandits.
Basically, once you uncouple 'dark elves' from all the other horseshit that people associate with drow because of Forgotten Realms, you can do plenty with the concept. But if you're locked into drow that worship a spider-butt goddess, backstab each other all the time, and live underground, then your ability to make them interesting is limited because we already know all about those drow.
>>44901104 >The Underdark isn't some Soviet Slavic nation. It's North Korea. It's not even North Korea. North Korea is a shittily run country, but even their leaders don't actively dick around with their people on the same level. The relationship with Lolth and the Drow is more like you playing Sims to dick around with virtual people by deleting their bathrooms or making them drown in the swimming pool.
>>44903995 Drow kind of are a FR thing. Sure, Eberron has very different Drow, but Eberron goes out of its way to make all races different from the norm (Halflings are dinosaur-riding barbarians, Elves are not-Mongols, Orcs are what Elves are in most settings; against that backdrop Drow being jungle-dwelling scorpion-worshippers instead of underground-dwelling spider-worshippers is pretty normal). I don't think other DnD settings even have Drow (except 4th edition's "points of light" setting, where they were practically same as FR Drow).
In my homebrew setting I did actually completely redo the Drow because I don't like the way they're done in FR, but eventually noticed they had nothing in common with what people associate with Drow other than being evil Elves and having a society centered around worship of gods that other races would consider evil. So I decided there's no real point to keep calling the Drow, and decided to drop all connection with the Drow (including making them look more like Dunmer, with grayish skin instead of the black skin and white hair look). They still get called "Dark Elves" in-setting due to being the evil counterpart of Elves, though.
I like to have Drow Elf Society backwards, rather than evil. Drow Elf Society is a strange mix between Magic being a High Priority and a side Project. Most Drow practice some kind of Magic alongside a their Profession, whether or not it would be helpful to their career, just whats interesting to them. Fungoll? That Fisherman you buy your Bloatfin from? Master Cryomancer. Gwerten Mill? The lowly Servant in Castle Dread? He teaches Pocket Dimension Making on Thursdays. They Honor Pure Warriors, feeling the're superior for resisting the temptation of Magic. Hell, Most Guards in Drow Societies are Spellswords or Mages in Shoulder plates.
>>44890371 I played drow in a civ game, I think they were pretty interesting.
Here's some of the things I did that were unusual:
Drow don't so much worship a spider goddess as that spiders are really important in their religion. Giant domesticated spiders were to Drow what cows are to Hindus - the primary source of wealth and valued above their caretakers in a lot of respects.
They were hardline libertarian capitalists, every adult member of the society had the powers of a central bank and could print as much drow currency as they wanted. The drow currency was called the slave hour, and was backed by, as you might guess, one hour of slave labour. It could be redeemed at any time.
They lived in a coastal area, were really into night surfing and fishing, and were kind of annoying but endearing traders that always threw the best orgies.
Do Drow like they're Deldar, brah. The Drow are evil because it's fun and they're all fucked in the head. The Spider bitch doesn't really exist, and neither does the matriarchy, it's just a popular fetish in their society.
>>44890371 I once played a lowborn Drow male in a game. He was a common soldier who cut and ran when had the chance. He was just happy to be away from the backstabby bitches of the Underdark, even if the sun was too bright and the food was weird. No angst or speshul snowflake about him. Fun times were had.
>>44899891 >and others >dunmer are grey instead of black, have red eyes and don't have white hair >murder for the greater good instead of the lols >non-matriachal, no bdsm in sight >true >everyone in the setting is >setting is full of that on top of all that their history, homeland, fashion, style, religion, names, and just about everything else is different.
>>44904577 Again, drow as we know them originate in Greyhawk and premiered more than ten years before the Realms were published. The Realms just made them vastly more popular, because the Realms themselves are vastly more popular than Greyhawk.
>>44890371 Okay so here's what you do. First, remove male dark elves, their society is all female. Male slaves of other races are acceptable, but kept on close watch for reasons below.
Second, introduce Love. Dark elves bond in pairs that are utterly and completely devoted to each other, body and soul. Such pairs will shamelessly display their status in public by holding hands wherever they go and any challenger will find that they fight as if they were two bodies of a single mind. Even more, the individuals themselves appear to be strengthened dependent on the strength of the bond, encouraging dark elves both to seek Love but also to be very picky.
Third, reproduction. Dark elf pairs replenish their numbers by kidnapping virgin surface elves and adopting them as their daughters. Only paired elves are capable of amassing the amount of Love needed to fully convert their surface kin, but once the process is complete the bond between daughter and mothers will be almost as strong as the pairing.
Fourth, vulnerability. Dark elves must remain completely pure. Direct contact with any male poses the risk of "whitening", the process in which a dark elf is converted into a surface elf, forever, losing her strength and Love. This is also why only virgin surface elves can be converted to dark elves.
The most hated enemy of the dark elves is of course the winged, all-male sky elves, but due to the natures of both races, they're restricted to a cold war fought through proxies, for fear of mutually assured destruction.
>>44897264 Not really, the setting from ES was originally a D&D setting. The Dunmer being a way to play Drow without being terrible. So they're no different then how the other races vary from setting to setting (see everything Dark Sun, Dragon Lance, Forgotten Realms etc.)
>>44912682 No different then how Drow vary across D&D settings (well, Elves in general) also slight nit picking but they don't necessarily murder for a greater good. Trust me there's a game where you can end up doing the opposite (with houses Telvani or Hlaalu).
Actually, the biggest leader of their country and the most loved of the Tribunal was Almalexia. And before that, their biggest gods, the 3 Daedra, were all represented as females. The Drow have gods beyond Lolth too, they just are of lessar importance. The most important one for the Dunmer is the god of backstabbing treason, but closely followed is the sex-murder-spider god
Um. Were we doing different quests for the Morag Tong? They were political assassinations, through and through. There was nothing 'holy' or 'good' about it. They're more well organized, more methodical, more efficient and frankly just better in every way than that frothing-at-the-mouth, edgelord, deviantart-tier Dark Brotherhood, but they're still a bunch of assassins.
Sotha Sil and Almalexia both had a solid grasp on it (as solid as any mental grasp the Tribunal had, really), but Vivec was the one who contemplated it the most and who understood it best. It's pretty easily arguable that Sotha understood and just didn't care because he was a freaky robosexual and that Almalexia just loved being venerated too much, but who knows! They're all 'dead' now anyways, right?
I wonder what Vivec got up to, honestly. Those seem like they'd be great stories.
>>44917653 No. Azura was the most important in the game Morrowind, and the favoured Daedra of Nerevar. But don't let that fool you, Boethiah was by far their main deity. It was Boethiah that inspired Veloth to gather the Chimer on their pilgrimage, it was Boethiah that fought Trinimac so that they might go, it is Boethiah that they give credit for all their development according to the books in the game. An excerpt from Varieties of Faith: >Heralded by the Prophet Veloth, Boethiah is the original god-ancestor of the Dark Elves. Through his illuminations, the eventual 'Chimer', or Changed Folk, renounced all ties to the Aldmer and founded a new nation based on Daedric principles. All manner of Dark Elven cultural 'advances' are attributed to Boethiah, from philosophy to magic to 'responsible' architecture. Ancient Velothi allegories are uniformly heroic successes of Boethiah over enemies of every type, foundation stories of Chimeri struggle. The order of importance for the Dunmer people was Boethiah, Mephala and finally Azura. Azura is important in the Morrowind game story, but as far as their myths go she isn't so great. Some of her stuff even gets credit given to Boethiah: >Azura was the god-ancestor that taught the Chimer the mysteries needed to be different than the Altmer. Some of her more conventional teachings are sometimes attributed to Boethiah. In the stories, Azura is often more a communal cosmic force for the race as a whole than an ancestor or a god.
>>44917273 Almalexia being the most popular of the Tribunal doesn't really make the Dunmer matriarchal, or have anything to do with Femdom. And of the three Anticipations/Good Daedra, only Azura is portrayed consistently as female. Boethiah is actually more commonly portrayed as male (although is occasionally portrayed as female as well) and Mephala is more commonly portrayed as hermaphroditic or unknown gender (Mephala keeps their sphere hidden from mortals and rarely manifsts to anybody directly). The genders of the Tribunal mirror their Anticipations: Almalexia's Anticipation is Boethiah and she's female to his male, Sotha Sils's Anticipation is Azura and he's male to her female, and Vivec's Anticipation is Mephala and he's also a hermaphrodite (sometimes; he changed his gender on a whim, appearring as a man, a woman or something in between).
>>44917702 Vivec is the only one of the three who had the correct mindset to truly achieve CHIM, though the others were probably aware of it on some level due to their divin powers. The key to achieving CHIM according to Vivec is love. More specifically, you must love yourself and love the world as you love yourself. This is because to achieve CHIM you must be aware that everything that exists is part of a single vast pattern that is the Godhead's dream, while at the same time not loosing your sense of self and zero-summing yourself out of existence. Almalexia loved herself but had little love for the world, and thus would not have been able to achieve CHIM, and probably was only dimly aware of the nature of the Dream. Sother Sil loved the world (in the way of a scientist: he loved experimenting, studying and exploring how it works). He probably was aware of CHIM on an academic level, but had no interest in achieving it, as escaping from the Dream was never his goal, and likely would not have been able to achieve it anyway as he largely neglected himself in favour of his studies. I do believe he likely achieved immortality of a different kind, though, and still lives on in his creations.
Meanwhile, Dagoth Ur achieved some form of bizarred reverse-CHIM where he became convinced that everything in existence is part of his dream, and attempted to take over the world with the power of agressive solipsism.
>>44916375 Lolth would fully encourage them doing so, whip them into a murder frenzy, send them out in the world, and then at the least convenient time suddenly switch off all their magic for 5 seconds.
Then when this causes failure she'd blame the drow matriarchs and punish them except for one, who didn't do much other than happen to be slightly further away when the power was switched off and so had a chance to hide rather than get killed and then make her getaway. That one would become her new high priestess.
>>44890371 You can make anything interesting. Though threads on drow are always fun due to their ability to expose the fact that most people who post about them also only know the memes instead of any actual lore.
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