>>44882610 Vikings were real m8. I think you mean klingons are the Vikings of Scifi. And yes it fits, since klingons went about acting like back stabbing little shits while constantly going on about "muh honor"
>>44882715 >Attack peasants and fishermen >run away unless you vastly outnumber the enemy Vikings warrior master race
>>44882715 >Honor-driven warrior culture Profit-driven you mean. Vikings were scandinavian pirates, that's about it. Also, same people were traders at different times.
>Constantly causing trouble for weaker empires because of how aggressive they are What "weaker empires"? Weaker than whom? And they mostly bothered unprotected settlements unaffiliated with any empires. Shit's just easier.
>>44882715 >Honor-driven warrior culture 90% of their attacks to south countries were sea-to-land raids to farms and shit. they carefully avoided places with fighting personnel. pretty honorale uh >constantly causing trouble the reason they lasyed so long is exactly the reverse: since they attacked mostly the enormous holy roman empire, taking offensive action aganist them would have been a hassle so fuckhuge nobody gave a fuck, and sent missionaries instead >Cool armor this is your death blow. they wore no fucking armor. if you're referring to horned helmets, they're an invention
real vikings were nothing else than snow pirate niggers, and this recent revisionism about them is seriously pathetic >>44883390 because vikings in fiction are the epitome of the "noble savage". wich is fine and dandy, but only until you donàt start trying to make them look cool when they attacked and raped random people to syeal their crops.
>>44883613 >The closest they got to "honor" was when two of their gang leaders got so mad at each other that they had two of their other guys fight it out I'm so fucking laughing. "I AM GRIMNAR, SON OF OLAF! BEFORE THE BLOOD OF MY FAMILY AND THE ALL'SEEING BLUE EYE OF ODIN I SWEAR TO CLEANSE MY HONOR WITH YOUR BLOOD! you go Erik."
>>44883646 >set design and prop departments You mean they did a Polo tv series? probably some people thinks I'm losing by not watching any tv, but I actually feel like I'm avoiding a sea of disappointments. these new shows look all the same kind of lame. probably the best decision I did in my life after quitting smoking
>>44883694 Lol, that's pretty good, but why does this seem strange to people? The conventions of trial by combat or justice by combat, and of having champions is something many european cultures had. This almost invariably led to having champions fight for your honour. The brits have an official gauntlet thrower who throws down the gauntlet to challenge anyone one who has a problem with the king to a fight.
>>44883976 yeah the modern viking ideal has everything to do with a bunch of /pol/ types doing their version of we wuz kings
historically, the vikings were completely indistinguishable from any other bunch of inbred fishermen whose reaction when there wasn't enough fish was "oh shit maybe if we raid another fishing village far enough away from us we might be able to not starve. plus there's no way they'll be able to track us back home."
the only reason history remembers them at all is that English monks recorded that every once in a while some scary foreigners dropped by to steal their shit. when english fishing villages went raiding that was, y'know. just something that happened. when FOREIGNERS went raiding, well, they must be horrifying supermen, otherwise we would have found a way to fight them off, right
>>44882610 I believe you are looking for the term Orcs, Orcs are the "Klingons" of fantasy, at least some iterations of them are. The warlike less advanced race who claims to be honorable but usually isnt and gets pissy at just about anything like a bunch of thugs, also bigger and stronger, and look funny.
>>44884286 You are right, but it is important to make the distinction between viking raids and norseman/danish raids. These two things often get blended together in modern portrayals of vikings. For example the show vikings is not about vikings. It's about... Norwegian(? I can't remember who was trying to settle what at that time) invaders.
>>44884373 yeah, the Danish kingdoms raiding was a different game, but the same principle of "they're a horrifying seafaring warrior culture and we definitely aren't basing this on the fact the only Danes the people who can write in English ever see are seafaring warriors" applies.
>>44884259 Most anything in popular culture are fantasy. America is not the greatest nation in the world. America includes more than just the US. Most cowboys were pig rapists, people too dumb to do anything more demanding than watching cows and suffering for a living, murderers who couldent live anywhere more civilized, or the people who hunted and murdered the pig rapists and murderers.
The Samurai had no honor to speak of. Some of them were loyal to their lords, but most of the ones we remember went around stabbing people in the back, breaking oaths, killing their lawful rulers, killing their subjects for no reason, or shitting on other religions because it was fun. One of the most reviled men in the history of samurai was Oda Nobunaga, and he basically did none of the above and so everyone hated him.
China is a distopean nightmare at pretty much any point in their history. Including present day.
Most people in the middle east are nice. They just have no concept of going against anyone who says they know what god wants from us.
Just because vikings were not actually living gods doesn't mean there isn't some cool history there.
>>44891775 Honor was very important in all ancient societies, and especially on Iceland. If someone insulted your honor and you did nothing about it that was a sign of weakness and an open invitation for anyone to take your stuff.
>>44882610 Eh. >Violent warrior culture. >Has some general rules of conduct considered important, but pretty chill with breaking those rules when it's to their advantage. >Consider skill at personal combat important, but not stupid enough to just let the best sword fighter lead them. >Think little of dying in battle, but try to pick fights that they know they will win and run from fights they think they will lose.
Honestly, seems pretty on point to me. I think the biggest difference is Vikings wouldn't talk up their honor quite as much and would point more to good track records for certain leaders than anything else. "Sven the Bloody sacked three villages in a row last summer and brought home his weight in silver! We should follow him!" vs. "Galrosh is the most honorable Klingon ever! None can compare to his bravery! Now let's secretly murder everyone he doesn't like and blame the humans."
Pretty sure Vikings had no code of honour or anything like that. Every human society has "some general rules of conduct" as an unwritten situational thing; far fewer try to make some kind of code of it.
IIRC the Klingons were based on the Soviets (militaristic, confrontational and the federatioons natural enemies, but not really evil), which is why they used stealth ships from the beginning: It is essentially american cruisers vs. russian subs IN SPACE.
Romulans were more meant to be Chinese (Asian inspired, more political then anything) but had every cold -war trope they could no longer foist on the Klingons loaded over them, and Cardassians were more meant to be North-Korea (in the time when they werent the laughingstock of the enitre globe) mixed with Nazii germany, but they are basically every totalitarian regime ever.
Here in the UK, everyone but the youngest schoolchild knows that the vikings didn't have horns on their helmets (except for ceremonial purposes) and that they were vicious raiders who sacked largely defenseless settlements and monasteries, or conquered already-weakened kingdoms. I've never met a single person who thought them 'honourable'; just brutal!
What most people DON'T appreciate is their legal system, or the fact that they were far-reaching traders, or ASTONISHING sailors, or actually fairly disciplined for a stereotypical 'barbarian' people.
>>44896394 Eh, not that mind blowing really. The Varangian Guard were required to accompany the Emperor to the church. The little graffiti that is there is the work of two separate people, the first is a name followed by meaningless scribbles, likely because the person had only learned to spell his own name and nothing else but wanted to make the text look longer, and the second is the beginning of a sentence that is abruptly canceled, likely because someone caught him writing it. They were simply bodyguards on duty, bored out of their minds.
Okay, we all agreed that overall vikings as real people were less or more shitty like everyone untouched by roman empire. but let me state that their lore (after being retconned by Sturluson, ok) is really neat?
>>44898935 The only reason I always come back to /tg/ is because as soon as I find a board that I like it turns to shit just a few weeks later, and everytime I ask myself >Why did I leave /tg/? It was nice there. We talked about Magic, and RPGs, and character builds, and when we didn't argue over which system was best we argued over which edition of a particular system was best. Fuck, I hate every single one of them, but I miss them. Even that one guy with his naked smug salad men.
And I return, and everything is good until the cycle repeats itself and I decide to leave again for the next board that promises me even more greatness.
every peoples have their vikings. vikings are just popular because they lasted longer than other retarded pagans because they lived in the shitty land no one wanted until all the good land was already taken and oil was discovered.
I can't wait for multicultuarism to kill off the viking meme forever.
>>44882715 If we're talking historical vikings here and not fantasy, I'm going to throw in my two scillingas
>Honor-driven warrior culture In their art, yes. What texts we have surviving really emphasise this. Beowulf's death is mostly because he refuses to let his Thanes fight alongside him because muh honour. However in practise? They were profit driven, or rather desperation driven. Scandinavia is a shitty place to grow crops and has few natural resources. As for warrior culture? Warriors were valued, yes. But those warriors became farmers and fishermen the moment they were back home. It wasn't until the Great Heathen Army that the Scandinavians had anything resembling a standing army formed of warriors, aside from Thanes to lords (and even then they were mostly aides rather than warriors).
>Causing trouble for weaker empires I'd hate to be the one to tell you this, but raiding a bunch of fucking monasteries on an island absorbed by infighting isn't really preying on weaker empires. You could argue that with the shit precluding the Danelaw then they were, but that wasn't so much 'causing trouble' more 'oh my god our land is terrible why don't we just go settle in a place where the weather is actually decent once in a while and there's a better quality of life'.
>Cool armor No better than anything else at the time. The idea of chainmail clad warriors leaping from longboats is pretty much a work of fiction. Metal was expensive (there's a reason axes were more common than swords -- the metal was so expensive it made the swords the reserve of the nobility as they needed more metal to make the blade). Only lords, and perhaps notable Thanes would have had anything resembling the armour we're used to. As with most groups at the time, troops were expected to provide their own equipment and if you're just Bjorn Bjornsson from the farm down the road you're going to go raiding with your cloth shirt and your axe.
Dudes were focused on honor, as are most warrior cultures. For examples we have republican Romans, the Mamluks (Furusiyya), the Prussian soldiery (Prussian virtues), Samurai (Bushido), and so on.
>>44883475 >90% of their attacks to south countries were sea-to-land raids to farms and shit. they carefully avoided places with fighting personnel. pretty honorale uh
Yeah, I mean when they conquered the Rus, or when they sacked Paris, or when they established the Danelaw by beating the shit out of all of England except for Wessex.
That was all just fighting farmers, right?
>the reason they lasyed so long is exactly the reverse: since they attacked mostly the enormous holy roman empire, taking offensive action aganist them would have been a hassle so fuckhuge nobody gave a fuck, and sent missionaries instead
In general, Denmark didn't get much involved in Imperial politics until Valdemar II, Sweden stayed out of it largely until the reformation, and Norway never got involved.
>>44907037 >However in practise? They were profit driven, or rather desperation driven. Scandinavia is a shitty place to grow crops and has few natural resources. As for warrior culture? Warriors were valued, yes. But those warriors became farmers and fishermen the moment they were back home. It wasn't until the Great Heathen Army that the Scandinavians had anything resembling a standing army formed of warriors, aside from Thanes to lords (and even then they were mostly aides rather than warriors).
That's a bullshit counter argument to the notion that vikings were a warrior culture of any kind. The great heathen army is part of the kickoff to the viking era.
I mean even then, you're still ignoring just how much the Norse in general fought each other. This transition from warrior to farmer that you speak of just plain didn't happen, the farmer was still a warrior, and was expected to fight for his clan, his lord, or his honor if it was required. We see as much evidence of norse warfare in Scandinavia as we do outside of it, and even more if we look at the sagas. Likewise of course, the warrior was still a farmer. Very few people wwere just a warrior, Scandinavian conditions simply did not allow for a significant part of the population to just straight up do nothing but murder each other, they had to create food between the murder session, but the same exact shit applies to the Roman legions.
Also, of course, the great heathen army was not a standing army, the vikings were never a standing army, Scandinavia didn't get an actual standing military until the reformation (And I believe Sweden kicked that off) which pretty quickly became abandoned until the Napoleonic era (Denmark got really super screwed by not having its navy be prepared for example),
I don't know why this anti-viking force is so strong on /tg/, but it'd be much more effective if they knew what the fuck they were talking about.
>>44911139 nah, the version most of us heard about literally never existed
the only reason the image of the vikings as mighty warriors is a thing is that the only english-language records of them is of FEARSOME TERRIFYING WARRIORS who killed a bunch of civilians near the local monastery and then ran the fuck away before anyone capable of fighting back showed up.
the only difference between the vikings and modern-day Somali pirates is that the fishing's probably a little better in Somali waters and so they don't have to go on desperation raids as often.
>>44901185 Levonian pagans lasted longer. The Vikings weren't even that competent when it came combat and often got their asses handed to them. The conquest of England was a military campaign undertaken by the king of Denmark, not really the same thing.
The main reason vikings became so popular was because Scandinavian national romanticism in the 19th century, well, romanticized the fuck out of them.
Vikings were weird with honor. They were pirates and shit traders, but they were awesome to each other. Also have in mind Greenland exist because a faggot was evicted, started spreading rumors about how awesome his new settlement was, and the idiots that fell for it were to proud to leave that suicide-inducing chunk of ice and frozen shit.
>>44907583 >Doesn't know about their punishment of rapists. For their own women. They were still rapists. Also the vikings were specifically those who went raiding, it was like a part time job title. Are you trying to attribute their laws, that held during peace time and applied to their own lands, to the one who broke peace AWAY from their own lands? >Doesn't know about their lore keepers People telling stories are just that. They're people who tell stories. They were practically monks without the centralisation, which when it comes to standardising historical accounts makes them inferior. >Hasn't read the sagas. Great. More stories. Does this mean that every european king should be praised as heroes because they all had the divine right? >warrior cultures. Raiding does not a culture make. >Samurai (Bushido), and so on. Were you not aware that Bushido is a straight up work of fiction, the romanticised image for which was penned some time in the past 200 years? >sacked Paris You mean when they caught the plague and got exposed to Christianity for the first time, eventually dooming their entire religion and even way of life once Hardrada finally snuffed it within 2 centuries? >or when they established the Danelaw by beating the shit out of all of England except for Wessex. Look at history. England staraight up isn't relevant to anything before Alfred the Great. Conquering the Heptarchy is nothing to brag about. >That was all just fighting farmers, right? Well, yes. Obviously. Why do you think they were attacking England in the first place? Because they wanted fertile land to settle and farm. Sure, it was rainy but they stood a better chance with it than they did the Franks. Not all of them could be as irritating as Rollo
>Were you not aware that Bushido is a straight up work of fiction, the romanticised image for which was penned some time in the past 200 years?
Of course that's not true. Bushido, as we know it, is largely fiction, but honor codes that inspired bushido, which we refer to as bushido in historical contexts for simplicity's sake,existed and have existed since the Heian period (Which puts it prior to samurai). True it only becomes recognizable as what we know as bushido during the Tokugawa bakufu, but to deny the prior influences is to be historically illiterate. Which I suspect you are.
>For their own women. They were still rapists. Also the vikings were specifically those who went raiding, it was like a part time job title. Are you trying to attribute their laws, that held during peace time and applied to their own lands, to the one who broke peace AWAY from their own lands?
We have found literally, and I do mean literally, no indication that there were separate laws for vikings. On the contrary we know the law codes they established in Ireland and England were reminiscent of the ones they used at home.
>Well, yes. Obviously. Why do you think they were attacking England in the first place? Because they wanted fertile land to settle and farm. Sure, it was rainy but they stood a better chance with it than they did the Franks. Not all of them could be as irritating as Rollo
Rollo was not "irritating", Rollo was brought in to rule Normandy because his forces were sufficient to end a civil war.
>>44918929 >historically illiterate. >Which I suspect you are. Cute, but I'm not the one who thought that vikings weren't farmers while talking specifically about the time they invaded England to settle and become farmers. With farms and farming and other things that people tend to have when they're interested in being farmers.
>>44919292 It seems that I did indeed misread your initial post, my apologies. Why not tell us the aspects of their "warrior" culture that made them distinct from non warrior cultures? Obviously the majority of posters here are only familiar with them performing sea based raids and beating the snot out of the Heptarchy. What did they actually do or have that made them particularly noteworthy?
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