>>44877864 It has unrealized potential. I honestly think the developers underestimated the time it was going to require them to achieve what they set out to do though and the GIMMIE ELDAR NOW crowd is going to force the game into release before it is ready, where it will be universally reviled and then whither and die in obscurity. Shame too, because they could make it great.
The original developer team was completly shit and full of people lying about what the game was going to be. Once the change in management came around they grounded themselves really fucking quick. I actually respect the new guys for lowering the scope so much, and pushing small victories over huge claims of glory.
It's going to start out as just big Space marine multiplayer games with some vehicles, and really, that's something I want anyway.
>>44882488 Only if you hit a thinner/weaker point in the armour. Pauldrons/chest etc cannot be punctured by a single normal bolt-round. This is literally the reason vengeance rounds exist >>44882583 No because captains can kill warbosses with good roles and power weapons
>>44879187 Force first person for guns, make the gunplay really satisfying. Like really responsive and skill based. Third person for melee, mostly used for finishing opponents off. Except for Assault Marines, but you still have to relay on movement to not get slaughtered.
>>44879804 >wanting to play the "I shoot you for 1 minute until you die and only move to cover to reload" the game.
It's problems come from the lore it's trying to replicate. Lore varies wildly between writers and therefore the expectations of the fanbase will vary wildly. Ork players expect orks to be killing machines on par with marines, sm players expect orks to be mere pests. Everyone thinks IG are cannon fodder except IG players who wonder why they're not a playable faction. No one will be satisfied.
That said, if they get a half decent shooter with orks and eldar in it, I'm sold. They've got something noone else has, and if it sucks it'll inspire someone else to do better than they did.
>>44887190 As someone who still plays competitive Doom, you're fucking wrong. Shotgun kills in one hit, maybe two. Bolters are similar in caliber to a 12 gauge (bit bigger actually, .75 compared to .71).
Honestly, I don't understand some of the massive negativity. Not gonna just say "It's alpha: it'll get better," but it is a decent idea and the game's progressing steadily.
Will it still be a thing 5 years from now? No fucking idea. Will it at least be decent? Almost for sure.
They're planning to do free DLCs and updates quarterly, so this game has potential to be a long-term thing. If it's a decent shooter with 40k themes and I can fuck around with my friends as orks, what's so wrong with it?
I'm pretty sure their plan right now is to make it an MMO over time, if that makes any sense (I don't understand most of this shit; too computers for me). First, it'll be a normal map shooter, and they'll add more maps over time. Second, they'll take all of those maps and make them all instances (Some said this was like defiance?). Lastly, they'll eventually just make it all an open map.
Honestly, I don't get what's so wrong with an instanced MMO. It seems way easier to pull off (especially for such a small studio), and that's still like 90% of the "real" MMO experience.
The game's going steam early access soonish. Idk if this is a good idea. This probably isn't right, but I always have a bias against early access game; 95% are shit and the devs don't give a fuck, so will people think EC is like that, too?
>>44890504 That was a good move though, I followed the game early on, and the devs were completely horrible. Promising constant streams of shit and then pounding out those founder packs. I'm honestly happy for the game now that changes are made.
>>44890340 I think most people's gripe with this is that they started out promising Planetside scale fights in a 40k setting, but now it's been scaled back to BF4 64 max players maps. Sure they plan to eventually merge everything into one map but by then there may not be the population to have massive fights that everyone wants. That and impatience.
Well given that the game is now 32 v 32 arenas instead of the actual open-world gameplay that was promised, Free Boyz just wouldn't work, given that they were specifically designed to be much weaker than their paid-for enemies, but they would overcome that through numbers. It was actually a rather ingenious and lore-friendly way to do things. But then the dev team shit the bed hard and any hope for the game is now long gone.
>>44890917 I know that people are upset about not getting the 40k MMO originally promised, but is there anything wrong with a solid, battlefield-scale shooter? If the gameplay is solid, the races are unique/fun, and they deliver on the promise to update it for free, what's so shitty about that?
>>44890975 The key point being IF. And the scale was one of the major original selling points. I can understand why they're doing this and hopefully it will allow them to build a solid game up, but people want massive fights and they want it now.
The market is fairly saturated with battlefield-scale shooters, and has been for some time now. What the market is missing is an MMO shooter, with the only option for a long time being Planetside 2, a game with more than it's fair share of issues. Much of the initial hype around Eternal Crusade was that it would be a viable alternative to Planetside 2, providing a similar kind of gameplay but with (hopefully) improvements, and in 40K to boot.
it's very telling that as soon as the devs announced that the MMO side of things was being delayed indefinitely interest in the game dropped right off. We don't need yet another battlefield-scale shooter, even if it is set in 40K.
The core of the gameplay is kind of like if you took Space Marine and the lock-on mechanic from Dark Souls and smooshed them together to make this weird shooter/melee hybrid. In fact I guess that's pretty much exactly what it is. Controls are a clusterfuck right now (left click is shoot, right click is melee, lock-on is ctrl, and a defensive melee is left click + right click? The hell?), but the concept is pretty neat and--even with the wonky controls--it's pretty fun.
Gunplay is solid if standard. Melee is fucking weird as hell but feels good and shows potential when it's not bugging the fuck out.. Their idea of a Planetside-style giant MMO single-server third person shooter RPG whatever the fuck crashed and burned a long time ago but if they can give me a quality Space Marine sequel with more factions I'll be all fucking for it.
>>44891063 >We don't need yet another battlefield-scale shooter, even if it is set in 40K.
Well you're getting one. If nothing else, that much is clear by now--especially if this fucker is supposed to release this year.
>>44878203 pretty sure the developers are not shitty and your idea of what a MMO is is world of Warcraft when the rest of the worlds idea of what a mmo is is some thing similar to DayZ. it seems fine they are just working out the shooting engine and maps and what server stuff they can afford atm. I think it will prob end up being sort of like the modern day planetside. but who knows.. they could take it a step further and start doing NPC stuff.. they just want to get a product into the market and get people buying cosmetic stuff so they can pay the bills don't be so fucking negative. big ideas take time. have you ever even worked in a video game developer? you realize most video game development companys have a big idea like this for a decade and work on smaller shitty commercial shit while keeping this idea in the background and then eventually if they where luckly like Blizzard of ID or some thing they get to release their swan song. sounds like your just not really up to date on the realitys of the video game market atm. yes I agree this game is not finished and yes I agree they will release it unfinished and boring perhaps and almost as a scam but if they get the community they need it will start reaching the goals they want just like world of Warcraft was actually quite feature shy at launch and grew into a amazing thing. Personally im glad they are giving you ever space marine load out options possible. and I love the artwork of the maps I think its very top not. I have no interest in playing as a marine thou and hope they add lots and lots of races and classes and stuff b ut for the meantime ill be a happy ork until the game evolves. have faith that's what is the definition of good design "faith" trust me all the best designers and artists in the world have about a 10 year period of struggle and this company is compounding that into a 10 month beta if you want them to do some amazing feature they suggested why don't you start learning to program
>>44892364 That's my only real big complaint. Of course optimization comes at the end, when you know what you're dealing with, but the game is very difficult to play in its current state. Without the optimization and the server lag, the game could easily be much, much more enjoyable, so it's kinda hard to judge it in its current state.
Another reason why I'm kinda scared for this game going early access. I doubt many people will be understanding about this major problem right now, so a lot of peoples' first impressions will be that it's a buggy, shitty game (which I don't think it is).
>>44892439 Unfortunately, it's Nathans time for the steam agreement to come full circle. After about half a year of hosting he has to put his game publicly on steam as per the contract he signed with them. Such is the woes of game development in a smaller studio I suppose.
>>44892488 Hmm, I haven't heard anyone mention that they're obligated to put the game on the steam store. It sounded very clear that it was an intentional and thought out decision. Did their time run out, or are they doing it early?
>>44890340 The problem is seeing devs promising things for later turning back from them. You don't start building a game when the tech and resources for it don't exist, it only shows that their transparency is not to trust.
>>44890165 Saying that a boltgun is an automatic rocket launcher is even more stupid. Sure, technically, it does shoot "rockets" but using the term is just plain misleading, seeing how an individual bolt doesn't even have a fraction of the explosive power of an actual rocket that is fired from a proper rocket launcher.
Boltguns are automatic weapons that shoot armor piercing, detonating gyrojet bullets. Not an automatic rocket launcher.
>>44894780 A proper rocket launcher doesn't leave anything left of a person if it lands a direct hit. Bolts are powerful, sure, but not on the level of actual rocket launchers. Their killing power comes from the fact that they detonate inside their target, which, needless to say, is pretty damn lethal. A single bolt won't hover, reduce a victim into "chunky salsa". A single bolter shot into a human's chest will leave a massive, gaping hole there, and the guy very much dead. However, if a human is hit square center into the chest with a frigging rocket, there won't be much to find left of him.
That's the difference. Bolts blow massive holes into people, rockets blow people into tiny, tiny bits. This is also why Boltguns can't do much to vehicles if they have half way decent armor, as the real power of the bolts comes from the detonation inside a body of a target.
>>44894591 It's a result of d6 system like stupid armor saves.
Some real world statistics. Only about 10% of gunshot wounds cause minor wounds with little risk of dying from complications. In all other cases you better drop your gun and try not to die within hours. Orks are notoriously tough but bolters were designed to kill them. For simplicity sake we can just apply this statistics to ork population.
Lasguns on other hand would be absolutely useless against orkz. Lasgun shot cauterizes the wound and prevents further bleeding and infection. Combined with Orkish natural immunity and regeneration it means Orks will always survive if you don't destroy his brain or large part of the body. Fucking flashlights.
>>44894820 Even though bolters were designed to kill Orks, that doesn't necessarily mean that all it takes to kill an ork is a single bolter shot. Orks are tough motherfuckers, who can survive being decapitated, and their head being re-attached into another ork's body.
>>44894839 >who can survive being decapitated, and their head being re-attached into another ork's body That's extreme cases. Bolters tear large chunks of meat on unprotected target. Even Orks will catch severe infection if explosion didn't destroy their heads or chest cavity right off.
>It's a result of d6 system like stupid armor saves.
It's a result of the Ork's being as tough as marines. Orks don't have an armour save against bolters. Bolters aren't that special compared to other faction's basic gun. There is no need to have Ork players spawn into death to satisfy your fanwank.
>Some real world statistics
Oh that'll do some good on a point about 40k! Especially about Orks who are sentient funghus with no comparable human physiology.
>>44894913 it was originally advertized as Space Marine on the scale of Planetside but not a garbage game. currently it looks like an average deathmatch hack and slash/shooter but supposively the MMO part comes later, I dont know.
there was originally word of a pve element and a co-op survival mechanic involving tyranids but I havent seen anything on that since the announcement.
>>44894893 >Bolters aren't that special compared to other faction's basic gun. This is something that Muhreen fags don't seem to get. Outside of the Orks and the IG, (even though Lassguns are arguably pretty amazing too), every faction in 40k got nasty as fuck basic weapons.
The Tau pulse guns fire fucking plasma, the Eldar Shuriken catapults spray countless, razor sharp blades that basically shred their targets, Dark Eldar Splinter Guns fire clouds of crystals that are all coated in countless deadly poisons and toxins, the Skitarii of the Admech have radiation guns and riffles that fire target seeking bullets that electrify their victims or some shit, the Nids have weapons whose ammo literally fucking eats you alive, Chaos has bolters too, and often also friggin magic added into the mix, and last, but not least, the Necron gauss flayers freaking vaporize their targets at the molecular level.
>>44894817 >Bolts blow massive holes into people Again we have contradicting data on the size of bolts. They range from huge warheads of destruction to tiny self-propeling explosive missiles. Heavy machineguns are known to pierce light armor and rip heads and limbs off and they use smaller caliber than portrayed in wh40k.
>>44894817 No, you clearly just don't read any 40k material.
“He swung his bolter up. His weapon had a gash in the metal of the foregrip, the legacy of a greenskin’s axe during Ullanor, a cosmetic mark Loken had told the armourers not to finish out. He began to fire, not on burst, but on single shot, feeling the weapon buck and kick against his palms. Bolter rounds were explosive penetrators. The men he hit popped like blisters, or shredded like bursting fruit. Pink mist fumed off every ruptured figure as it fell.” / Horus Rising, p.25 - **
Bolters almost always cause people to turn into chunky salsa. When they don't, they either completely vaporize something like the head or send them flying back for meters.
I don't think I've ever heard of Orks being susceptible to disease or infection, unless we're talking about supernatural contagions or specifically designed bio-weapons. They're astonishingly resilient, hardy creatures. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if anything less than a solid head/chest hit wouldn't kill them, though obviously they would be incapacitated and at risk of bleeding to death if a Dok didn't find them first.
>>44877864 Based on what the Devs have said, they're trying to get the game working at a basic level before they move on to the MMO part of it.
I believe we're going to get a good game out of this. I played the alpha on its initial release and it was unplayable (no graphics slider for my shitty PC). Once they added the ability to turn my FPS up, it actually plays rather well. After seeing this I realized BEhaviour works at a slow pace, but they'll get it done eventually.
>>44894980 Doesn't matter if you don't like it, it's canon along with everything else. Bolters are .75 caliber autocannons firing rocket-powered munitions comparable to anti-aircraft canons from WWII or the 30mm guns on attack choppers. The force of the round alone is enough to completely tear somebody to pieces- but the explosive either outright vaporizes a limb or completely destroys a body.
>>44895019 Those are still not on the level of power of actual rockets fired from a rocket launcher, which is what this whole argument is about. Calling bolters "automatic rocket launchers" hypes up their power way too much.
Again, I am not saying that bolters are weak or anything like that, I am just saying that calling them automatic rocket launchers makes them sound far more powerful than they actually are.
>40K mmo >Oh good! About time! >Marinemarinemarinemarine >I will never be the semi-nude, gothic dark elder princess simply rping and enjoying my life with my courtiers and nobles with the occasional raid or battleground.
>>44895020 No actually, when it comes to fluff they're only superior to something like say, subsonic rounds meant for anti-light infantry. Tau Pulse weaponry is actually inferior when it comes to lethality- it leaves a very small hole in whatever it penetrates, demanding shot placement for a kill. Meanwhile you put a bolt virtually anywhere but the lower leg, with the shittiest guardsmen's aim, and it will instantly kill the person hit or mortally wound them.
But depending on boltgun ammo, you can get hypersonic rounds able to shred tank armor. There's even Melta-Bolts that carry a small melta charge to deliver a blow close to the power of the meltagun, but with the range of several kilometers.
Didn't realize the thread turned into a "THIS GAME ISN'T LORE FRIENDLY" discussion.
To clear this up, getting one-shotted by an automatic weapon isn't fun and it isn't intuitive. Asking for a game that properly represents this would be asking for call of duty's hardcore mode turned up to gears of war (which if you're playing World At War, might actually represent the gore that you want to see, as it's the only CoD with dismemberment).
>>44895082 They do, but honestly it's just due to "muh tau stronk" than anything in the fluff, and the bolter being laughably under-statted on the TT.
I'd compare a Pulse Rifle more to a Hotshot lasgun. It will cut through power armor, but it shouldn't be a high strength weapon to represent the fact that it's punching a tiny hole in something with redundant redundant organs most of the time (Space Marines, Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar Wracks etc).
Although, this is also taking the shooting phase as literally being a single shot for each troop, and not volley fire with each dice representing a magazine.
>>44895091 Eldar of all types>Admech>Tyranids. Those are the armies I collect. The only imperial faction that really interests me anyways are the Admech. In general, I find the aesthetics of the Imperial factions rather dull, especially in the case of the IG and the Marines.
The Eldar just look great, and their fluff is interesting too. Nids on the other hand, scratch my itch for mostrous bugs of all sizes.
As for the rest of the xenos, none of them interest me enough to start collecting them at the moment, though I might get some necrons at some point because they look pretty cool. I don't care much for their fluff though.
>>44895083 tldr; gameplay is more important than lore
And would you play a game, Warhammer or otherwise, where you ran around with around 31 other players (i can't remember player count, but they're planning to hit somewhere around 1000 on full release) one, two, or three shotting another player with anything short of an accurate sniper shot? CS:GO can be like that and the fanbase it has isn't something you want touching your WH40k. Not to mention, do you really think that the average player would be skillful enough to enjoy that sort of gameplay in order to come back for more? From what I understand, it is going to be free to play and they'll need to make their money off of cosmetic purchases and faction passes (ie, Orks are the free to play race, the rest will be paid races).
While lore-friendly guns is probably an important thing to consider, making sure the game has a player base larger than half a potential server would be more important.
>>44895082 Tabletop bolters are Str 4 ap5 and Pulse rifles are Str 5 ap5. This means that they both cut through flak vests but won't deal with carapace armour. Pulse rifles can penetrate light vehicles and are more effective at damaging infantry however.
>>44895153 >not liking fabulous as fuck Spesh Elves that range from ninja murderclowns, to nomadic samurai wizards, sadistic cybergoth aristocrats, glorious spesh pirates, dinosaur riding spesh amish, and frankenstinian mad scientists, who are all bound by common ancestry and a Chaos god lusting for their souls.
It's like you hate fun or something. The Eldar as a whole, have so much variety in them both appearance, and fluffwise.
>>44895162 This. Gameplay>lore in a competitive shooter. I love it when things stick close to the lore, but certain games can't do that without fudging a lot of things. A game like dawn of war can stick close to war because you can compensate in a strategy game. If you did the same in a third person shooter and had something like and IG fighting an ork 1 on 1, the IG is getting force fed his own balls. And that wouldn't be fun or fair to the IG player. It also applies to the four basic races that will be in EC. Of course they have to change how much damage guns will do and how much health each player has because making a FUN game is a lot more important than having lore accurate damage stats
>>44894893 >There is no need to have Ork players spawn into death to satisfy your fanwank. If it was MMO ork boys would NPC mobs and low level PCs. Once players beat enough boyz they become ardboyz and then nobz. Nobz are a big deal. They are very tough, brutal and cunning.
In this case, it's an MMOTPS, meaning levels aren't thing.
Also the free-to-play model lets non-paying people play as the most basic level of Ork, meaning that the Ork Horde will compose of stupid people and poor people running around zerging stuff not unlike the lore.
So I've been following this game for a long, long time and I gotta say, I'm a lot more optimistic about it lately than I was in the past. The current developers are extremely open and honest- rather than their hopelessly idealistic predecessors.
The game is insanely unfinished right now, missing probably 90% of the features of the game but I think the bones of the gameplay are there and they're solid. Melee and ranged are about equally viable (weapons are still being balanced but even at this early point I feel like the only unviable weapon is the lascannon).
Melee is actually pretty fun with a simple little rock-paper-scissors system with fast, heavy and defensive attacks. I could see it argued that the melee should be more complex but I think it' fine for something that's happening in the midst of huge shooting battles.
Vehicles are still being balanced and a lot of people will say they're too weak, given that to use a predator properly you need a driver and gunner. Personally, I like the way they fit now, and needing two people to use a predator properly requires a bit of teamwork and giving tanks a 'tax' of two infantry makes them a bi more balanced. They're not super duper durable, but it fits the tabletop- against basic infantry weapons the armor value of rhinos and predators is just a wall, but they'll go down quickly enough once you bring anti-vehicle weapons. I really can't overstate how fucking fun it is destroy a predator with a power axe or melta bombs (they function like grenades with 0 range and a long fuse in this).
The biggest thing that's made me more optimistic about this game is how the developers seem to have really hit their stride and content patches are rolling out really steadily. Last week was storm shields and the mark of Nurgle, this week is custom loadouts and power fists. The thing I'm most worried about is that the factions might come out samey, but since all we have so far is loyalist and traitor marines it's hard to judge.
>>44895422 Additionally, the way of using rhinos as mobile spawn points is a great way to integrate metal boxes into gameplay. They make a nice anchor for your squad, and a nice mini-objective for enemies to take out. Each class and most weapons have a different feel to them, or even the same class with different weapons (playing assault with a jump pack or trading it for a storm shield for instance makes a huge difference, as does playing devastator/havoc and switching between plasma cannons and heavy bolters).
>>44895633 I hate that Eldar have an overpowered codex. I want to pick up a second army, and because my first army was Necrons the crazy variety of infantry that Eldar can field is really appealing (not that any unit in the Necron codex is bad, but I'd like to switch to mobile, specialized infantry). But I get enough hate for playing one strong codex that I'm gonna go with daemons instead.
In Mount & Blade: Napoleonic Wars there is a mode called commander mode. In that, you play a character and also command a squad (depends on what the server has set it to, but it can get as high as 50-60 bots, cannons etc)
I have been trying to think how eg a space marine could be balanced vs an orc without making the orc completely OP compared to the lore or just a plain bad experience for the orc players to just die and respawn constantly (even if they have more healths or whatever).
So what if, instead of that, as a base orc you start as a squad with you being the "champion" of the squad. If you die, you automatically transport to the body of a different orc in your squad until they are all wiped out.
That way you could also name all of them and have a pimp-my-squad style gameplay. It could also highly contrash with spess mahrinez who would only be the more traditional Space Marine game experience and it fits much better with the lore of the orc hordes vs more trained troops.
>>44896058 Eh, don't know about that. If I hit an orc in the face, I expect that orc to die, not the orc 2 meters behind him. It would be too gamey. The orcs should still act as individuals within a squad.
In M&B, when you die, you simply get transported into another orc who acts as the new leader. The difference is that your original guy is better than the random soldier you are now as he has spyglass and a pistol you can use on the move.
It could basically simulate how orcs are pretty dependant on their leader keeping them alligned.
>>44895981 While something like this might be good for factions like IG or Tyranids, I really don't think it's necessary for Orks. On physical terms, orks and marines are close enough, it's not going to blow someone's immersion away if they have similar levels of survivability and dakka (remember that PCs are going to be more equipped than just a standard ork boy)
>>44896354 That just sucks for new players. Being cannon fodder is no fun. New player options should be more limited, not flat out worse.
>>44896200 As the other dude said, nobz and bosses perhaps could be considered equal, but an average orc would get wiped by a space marine.
I don't think ALL orcs should have that. In fact, I don't think all humans or even 'nids should. if you play a tyrant, you should be a single character or if you play a psycker human or a commisar or an orc boss.
But it could open the option to play termagaunts or a squad of imperial guards or a squad of orc boys with a minor nob as a leader who would not be an equal to a space marine by any means.
>>44896425 Well, the squad could be like 3-4 orc boys. You don't need 30 of em, and then make the space marine a bit stronger to match the fluff closer than the board game. In fluff, technically, a space marine could easily take out 7-8 normal orc boyz.
>>44896433 Correct, f2p is meant to entice you. Know what isn't enticing? Being smashed to a pulp every time you spawn because the other guy is flat out stronger than you and, probably, a better player than you. It is frustrating and would turn off most people.
F2p should be on par with p2p but it should have way more limited options.
>>44896440 But do you not realize how much work even integrating the simplest form of AI companions would be? The game as it stands would be a reasonable depiction of fluff by making the marines and orkz roughly equal at different things (Space Marines obviously being more accurage and armored, while orkz is biggah and srongah).
Basically you're proposing a ridiculously complicated solution to a non-problem
>>44896494 A) Orks are not stronger than the marines. I mean....they literally aren't. Unless we are talking about the larger orks and we aren't right now.
B) They already are going to have AI with the 'nid NPCs. It is not that hard to adust the behaviour to "follow player and hit roughly what he hits". I have programmed AI before and this is the easier kind of AI to do if you get the pathfinding right, which you need to do for the 'nids anyway. So it isn't really complicated.
It's also not trying to solve any problem, really. The point above is to have a fun mechanic to make the game not CoD with a warhammer theme. Very few MP games have squads and it could be a very interesting balancing mechanic. I don't get the negativity from you on that part.
>>44896562 >they literally aren't. They literally are. They can split straight through a space marine's helmet with nothing more than a rusty choppa and raw, brute strength. SMs have to wear strength enhancing armor just to get the tiniest edge on standard Boyz
>>44896562 Well, you're tone is coming across as being mad about how orkz are going to be implemented and trying to 'fix' it. Certain games can work with squads, a Bad Company style of things could work for Imperial Guard and a Natural Selection style I could see working for tyranids if they ever wanted to make them playable. But with orkz, I feel like it'd be unceccesary and unfun. Lore for 40k is obviously inconsistent, but it's not exactly immersion breaking to see a well equipped ork kill a tactical marine. Plus killing and getting killed by bots is just a lot less fun with players so I don't feel like it's a good thing to bring in unless it's with factions that have such a physical disparity that they -need- it.
>>44896610 Yeah because the fluff for 40k is holy and consistent. The tabletop game is a good meter stick to use since the fluff in the codices varies so dramatically and while marine-wank can work well in a single player game (Space Marine), in a multiplayer game it'd suck the fun right out of a competitive shooter.
>>44896630 Since you brought up the tabletop...you do realize space marines have more strength and WS and ballistic skill than orc boyz, right? The armour is supposed to be a seperate thing. So they are stronger than orc boyz flat out in the tabletop (if we compare that, which is stupid, but whatever) and they most certainly are in fluff with a space marine being vastly superior to an ork boy.
In the game, FOR THE SAKE OF FUN GAMEPLAY, I suggest a happy medium. Instead of sperging over whether or not an ork boy has a bigger cock than a spess mahrine, focus on the merits of my suggestion instead.
>>44896634 I think what I said above is meant to make the game closer to the fluff than the tabletop (which is a good thing, I think) and also add fun gameplay. I am not "mad" at how the orks will get implemented. I just think it won't work well. Worst case, I don't play the game, but this is a thread about discussing it so yeah.
>>44896688 >>44896713 You guys are misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying they need to go out of the way to adhere to the tabletop or lore, I'm saying the opposite. Everyone saying that Orks need to be bots or have a huge horde to believably fight space marines are the people I'm arguing against, my point was that orkz and space marines are close enough to each other that just leaving it at ork players vs marine players is perfectly fine and that making some unnecessarily intricate bot system would be a pointless and unfun complication just because it doesn't fit people's idea of marine wank fluff.
>>44896688 >Since you brought up the tabletop I actually didn't, I'm referring purely to the lore, where a bunch of orks can easily outmaneuver DA EMPRAHS FINEST and hack clean through them. That said... >you do realize space marines have more strength and WS and ballistic skill than orc boyz You need to learn to read, friend. I straight up said that marines have a slight advantage over Boyz...thanks to their armor. A naked marine would get torn apart by your average ork
>>44896821 >intricate bot system would be a pointless and unfun complication But it would extremely fun! Killing hordes of boyz or gaunts with heavy bolter and flamer if you play as a muhreen. Or play ork nob, bash your ork bots on their heads and send them to soften your enemies or use mobs as mobile cover.
>>44897058 >I'm referring purely to the lore >a bunch of orks can easily outmaneuver DA EMPRAHS FINEST and hack clean through them You know the old saying? All factions win in their book except Tyranids.
>>44896821 This. Is everyone in this thread that autistic that they can't have fun with a game if the health and power of each race isn't EXACTLY how it's depicted in lore? With some of the ideas I've seen, that would be like playing the space marine single player and having all the orkz be player characters. I don't know about you, but I don't think it's fun to watch countless teammates get slaughtered while the space marines waddle through the hordes swinging randomly and jerking off their ultradicks. It doesn't matter how "Lore-accurate" it is, that's not how you make a fun and balanced TPS
>>44897257 While I disagree with the other guy on the weakness of orks, I do get where he's coming from. While things need not be EXACTLY lore adherent (>implying 40K can ever remain lore adherent with itself), you still want each faction to bring their respective flavor to them game.
Orks should feel like orks, not green space marines. Not what exactly makes an ork an ork seems to be where disagreement stems from. And I do think it would be cool if Nobs had limited control over ork bots in the same manner as you could always scoop up a few bots to run with you Pikmin style and give them the simplest of commands (for them to then fail to carry out) in the original Star Wars Battlefront, but that's just because I love any game that let's me have some dudes of my own to take care of.
>>44897377 There's actually already a squad system in the game, a lot of people don't realize it but you get a slight buff from sticking close to your squad leader (plus your squad shares a rhino). I think the issue here is that it'd be best to avoid replacing roles that could be filled by players with bots in a game focused on player vs player. Nobs buffing surrounding orkz for example is a good no-brainer, but it'd be a lot more engaging and fun for those orkz to be real people.
>>44896664 40k is pretty consistent that the average lone Ork is pretty shit, and the reason why they're actually dangerous is because a WAAAAGH has millions of the fuckers. The Brotherhood of the Snake killed thousands of Ork boys in the course of a couple seconds.
>>44897377 I never said that they should all play the same. For example, the orks could instead of having an over shield thing like the CSM and the SM, they should have a bit more health and can regenerate over time. And if you wanted more of a green tide, the orks could have a faster respawned rate than the other races could also help balance it out
>>44899547 I think Orks should have higher body count than all other races and bots for masses of Ork boyz. Players can choose to play nobz leading groups of boyz or specialist castes like mekboyz, weirdboyz, commandos, etc.
>>44886135 Personally, I would go for adding a group system that gives you some kind of bonus when you're in a group with other members of your faction. Space Marines gain Squad Tactics - if 5 space marines are in a squad group together, the accuracy and damage of all their weapons increases. Meanwhile, Orks gain DA WAAAGH! which gives them bonus melee damage and fire rate but reduced accuracy based on how many orks are within a certain radius. This encourages gameplay fitting with the lore - Space Marine squads going off to be tacticool and working as a team for bonuses, while Orks just come in a huge wave.
>>44900184 Rather, keep the squad system exactly how it is for marines right now- when you join you're assigned to a 5 man squad, you have a leader and a rhino. But for orkz, don't make their squads designated, have maybe two or three Nobz allowed at any time, and their location is visible for the rest of the orkz at any time, so they don't have to be loyal to a single Nob they just have to go where da fightan iz
>>44895161 Only works in that sort of game if you make every Guardsmen either a Catachan, Kasrkin or Ogryn, or hand every dude a personal Leman Russ tank and a heavy weapons team as backup. Else the next Spehss Muhreen/Edgy Muhreen/Nob/whatever the Eldar equivalent to that is, just walks by and punches you into oblivion.
>>44900860 Boyz are much tougher than your average human. Nothing compared to a Space Marine, but as far as I know, most ork boyz just shrug off a Lasgun shot like it was nothing. Also, you'd probably wouldn't face just a single ork, but many of them.
The whole "charging into melee in the future" thing probably originated from orks and other primitive xeno species they fought back in the Great Crusade. At some point they will get close enough to you, and then you'd want a nice weapon to stick between their eyes.
>>44900952 >The whole "charging into melee in the future" thing probably originated from orks and other primitive xeno species they fought back in the Great Crusade. At some point they will get close enough to you, and then you'd want a nice weapon to stick between their eyes.
And maybe from all these "techno barbarians" and the Thunder Warriors from the Unification Wars, I should add.
>make space marines and eldar stupid fast and powerful(bullshit anime tier) >ork boyz and imperial guardsman controlled by ai >specialized ork and guardsman are free players (weirdboy, commisar,etc) bringing in ai squad mechanics when applicable
Saturating the game with numbers and high death counts will keep the action flowing, keep weapons operating close to fluff(as to avoid tedium of one hit death), and places emphasis on tactics(charging with ai will likely get you killed, time for special snowflake stormtroopers or space marine assault squad)
>>44901515 The problem with high numbers is that it takes up memory, and getting the AI to not be pants-on-head retarded is difficult. It would be awesome but doesn't seem like something the studio could pull off with what they have.
>>44901668 they don't need to not-be pants on head retarded.
all they have to do is advance, attempt melee attacks in range when applicable, hipe fire in general direction while advancing, take cover and preselected areas near objectives, attempt aimed range fire when in preselected cover areas.
Even Red Orchestra 2 horribad AI could still work. Really only two changes would need to be made to Red Orchestra AI. 1. Create system to delegate permissions to factions for cover system. Basically, when team red has objective, team red will take cover at permitted defending positions marked red, team blue will take cover at attacking positions marked blue. When team blue takes the objective, ownership of defending cover areas is either disabled or given permissions to blue(depending on map layout, if it's a linear map, old cover positions would be disabled so dumb ai doesnt get stuck). 2. reduce accuracy of ai. I'd rather they not be able to hit side of barn than to shoot with perfect accuracy. if there are a lot of them, accuracy tends to become less of an issue.
As for memory I don't know what to do about that. I think it's something worth testing though.
OK I've looked at some of the videos and it is a bit rough but it's still alpha so that's a given. What I like is that they got melee in it like what you see in Space Marine and the finishers too. Melee is brutal and unforgiving like it should be. And being a lone assault marine is suicide. What I want to see is groups of ass marines hit a line of mooks and kill them in mass melee now that would be awesome. And should be whole point of a fps mmo based on wh40K being about to get stuck into huge battles at range and close up.
Everyone saying the weapons don't work like they do on tabletop is a motherfucking moron. Do none of y'all realize rapid fire and assault weapons' single roll on tabletop represents the user going full auto or burst? God.
So yeah Orks have always taken multiple bolster shots to down. Manchildren.
I wonder if it would be possible to program in a totally AI faction and play last stand type scenarios like Tyranids? That could be totally fun if like in the middle of a heated battle nids just started falling out of the sky and you all had that 'OH SHIT' moment.
>>44902769 That's not the point? There's some weird cycle going on in this thread, where one person complains about the game not matching the lore, one person says it's not a big deal by using the tabletop as an example, with each of them accusing each other of being a nit picky sperg
>>44891063 > Much of the initial hype around Eternal Crusade was that it would be a viable alternative to Planetside 2
Fucking this. If it's just another 40k shooter, IDGAF.
I was HOPING for Planetside 40k edition, even if it used original Planeside level graphics/engine/netcode. If we're not even getting that and just getting CoD/BF 40k... I have better things to waste my time on.
>>44903723 Bruh, the game is too bare bones to start saying shit like that, they want to get competent shooter mechanics and a fun basic game made in the alpha. Am the whole planetside-type shit will come later with time.
Orks won't be a f2p race as a whole; you'll be able to play basic ork boyz for free.
Idk the scope of how full the experience will be in terms of levels/customizable equipment, but it's limited to the basic slugga/shoota class. Stormboyz, Painboyz, and Lootas all still require the full game.
They should put guard in and have you spawn with 2 other AI guardsmen who will auto attack the best enemy or whoever you direct them to like a pet class. You should get to respawn them every 5 mins if they die or something.
So how long till we need to get serious about putting together a /tg/ clan for this game? Wonder how high they can the numbers up to per side. If they can do 100 vs 100. We could actually field true companies depending who we can field. Just thinking of forming into 5-10 man tac, ass, or dev squads and just doing shit in 'THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR' makes me moist.
DESU I do think you can't judge yet how good or bad the game really is. Since no one I've seen is actually playing it right. They are all playing it like a normal tps/fps shooter and they shouldn't be. Since lone wolfing it is totally the wrong way to play a wh40K squad based game which this is. I want see what happens when you do mass assault or heavy weapons in groups. The devs said they took this into account so until we see it in action done properly we won't know if they got it right.
>>44923498 Well, yes since we would be coming from the TT game and understand how everything works in the abstract. We just need to apply that thinking to a mmo vs gamers who are all about racking up kills and out doing their teammates. Like the devs have said it's all about asymmetric play and how best to use that in groups. And /tg/ should understand the concept well. It would be about the execution and mastering it in mmo at this point.
>>44921145 >So how long till we need to get serious about putting together a /tg/ clan for this game? When the games is actually completed and the /top meks/ can swarm maps that allow dozens of raiding players fine.
>>44877864 To be fair, an unremarkable map-based shooter is exactly what a lot of people , myself included, though we were gonna get.
It's a fun enough game and it's technically adept enough to play and have a good time with, hopefully in the year or so it's gonna sit in beta it might actually do something interesting and noteworthy.
For now it's just another shooter, but it's still good exposure for 40k and it's still fun to see it as a proof of concept for what kinds of thing you can do with the setting.
I purchased the game expecting to run around as a bullet sponge while shouting memes and shooting imprecise hits, wanting to crump space elves and see nids up close, to teabag armless chaotics and rustle loyalists while everything explodes and people die in squads in the middle of the meatgrinder, but most of all I'm expecting an enjoyable visual experience of warhammer 40k and entertaining melee.
How fucked am I on a scale going from "impulse buyer" to "royally so"?
>>44877864 The end goal is planetside 2, third person 40k edition, right now the alpha's basically a competative third person shooter on smallish maps while they figure out the details of combat mechanics and such.
I don't think the "big open world map" thing is fully canceled but their plan is apparently to slowly scale things up over time, honestly I';d be fine with Space Marine multiplayer that isn't fucking abandonware so my expectations are suitably low, it'll be nice if we get to that endgoal though.
It's currently under NDA, it's coming to steam early access on the 25th though and I can't imagine them enforcing the NDA on steam, so you should be able to start gettin serious about groupin up then I guess, and you know actually see people other than 'approved streamers' play it.
>>44924759 it's fun for what it is right now, but when they said "this is in alpha" they didn't mean it in the 'this is a demo that we're going to claim is an alpha' way, it's unoptomized, it has placeholder assets, they're tweaking weapon stats from patch to patch (get ready for the storm bolter nerf)
>>44925076 Actually you're right. I concede that it isn't a contiguous open world because I've barely played since they went to the megaserver system. That said, you encounter other players doing stuff because the the instances are not closed and actually have a pretty high pop limit. It's still functionally close to actual open world, as opposed to Guild Wars 1 which was fully instanced, so you never encountered anyone ever outside of town, and even the towns had multiple instances.
The amount of practical difference is minimal. GW2's full of instances but the instances are zone-wide and public. The baggage that comes with the word "instanced" doesn't really apply to it in most cases. For most intents and purposes it's just open-world with loading screens.
>>44919498 >>44922482 The shooting in SM was subpar. EC is a shittier version of SM. By the looks of it the majority of fights will be actually gunfights, so it makes sense to at least try to make the shooting feel non retarded. And TPS is almost always way worse than FPS and I seriously doubt EC will somehow be an exception.
>>44919941 Melee is M2. The game would switch to TPS once you actually start using the melee/jump pack, not once you equip it.
So this is open beta on the 25tg right. Is there any cutoff for the numbers of players they are looking for? Or do you just sign up and hope they pick you? I've never done a closed beta before how are they?
He's talking about early access. You just buy it on steam and play the game. A little early as far as I'm concerned but whatever I guess they want it out the door.
F2P Orks are MIA as far as anyone knows. Considering that the game is entirely lobby-based at this point, the idea of a weak-but-numerous faction doesn't work. It's likely that that particular idea is dead.
>>44936135 if they have to abandon the planetside-esque map idea, I hope they at least implement a planetary conquest hex grid. They can make a bunch of generic maps that represent your every day run-of-the-mill 40k battlefields, and then a bunch of special maps that represent key landmarks.
I bought into the Alpha/Beta. I know I will be disappointed in the long run, because the devs have promised so much. Yet, I still bought it in a moment of weakness. I just wanted to play a Blood Angel assault marine.
>>44936213 Current plan is have a few maps like currently (We have three, all three are pretty cool), then slowly open the world up. Having explored the maps a bit, there are pieces here and there that are obviously for moving between areas, so that's still the plan, me thinks.
>>44894963 They released a teaser for Nids, so they're still being worked on. Eldar are going to be the next big update (Possibly even with Early Access unlock), Nids will likely be finished next but implemented later, and Orks currently have a few animations done IIRC.
Playing it, it's already better than SM multiplayer, but it does have issues that one would expect for an Alpha, so graphically it's a bit meh and some things need to be worked with to get it running smooth.
There needs to be Guard as a F2P race. Maybe include special classes such as Kasrkin, Catachans, and so on and so forth. It would allow the Guard to have sheer numbers from the amount of F2Per's. Plus who doesn't want to drive baneblades around?
>>44940012 It would be cool if they expanded on that concept and added fodder F2P troops for each of the factions.So marines would get penal regiment troops, chaos would have its cultists, orkz would have their boys.... And I guess Eldar would have randomly generated troops from each of those to simulate their manipulative nature? I don't know what fodder troops Eldar should have. Guardians shouldn't be expendable for obvious reasons.
>>44940087 It's weird that Guardians aren't in the game considering they are the basic eldar unit. That said, they are probably doing so based on the Eldar being quick as fuck. Back to the Guard, if they add them in as playable, make a squad system that makes it VITAL to playing in the guard. And add Ogryns so he can beat the shit out of things in melee.
>>44941290 Uh, no. Bolters are 19mm cannons that fire rounds at supersonic or even hypersonic velocities depending on the load. An XM25 is so weak in comparison it isn't even funny. Their explosive force meanwhile is comparable to the damage wrought by an Apache autocannon.
>>44941779 >Their explosive force meanwhile is comparable to the damage wrought by an Apache autocannon.
Given that an Apache's autocannon is 30mm and probably fires rounds at a much lower velocity I would say that's probably not true. A Boltgun round gives over space to the rocket motor and fuel as well as being a tough-as-nails penetrator, and the dimensions of the weapon means that rounds are wide but shorter compared to 'true' 20mm cannon rounds.
All in all I'd say there's room for 20-30g of explosive filler in a typical bolter shell, which isn't a great deal (old pineapple grenades had some 57g in them) but put that in an enclosed space made of soft tissue and bone and it will obliterate it.
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