so, why can't a Hind fire their Saggers while stationary?
Hen and Chicks! is it better than hero tankovy?
all this and more! on this week's edition of.....
Flames of War SCANS database:
---Includes our Late War Leviathan rules!
Official Flames of War Free Briefings:
Current /tg/ fan projects - Noob Guide &FAQ, and a Podcast
Quick Guide on all present FOW Books:
Archive of all known Panzer Tracts PDFs: http://www.mediafire.com/folder/nyvobnlg12hoz/Panzer_Tracts
WWII Osprey's, Other Wargames, and Reference Books
and, for Vietnam.
Panzerfunk, the /fowg/ podcast.
http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=1949 the Azul Division: no longer linkable off the main page
Which army do you play the most?
what actual country are you from?
here, have a thing.
This suprises you? It's late Sunday night/early Monday morning. Hell, I'll be calling it a night soon myself.
>why can't a Hind fire their Saggers while stationary?
Wait, what? I can understand a weapon that can only fire when stationary, but a weapon that can only fire on the move? That seems a bit odd...
it's the best shit to happen to Soviets since Red Bear Revised.
you can even do a versitaile Hero Tankovy
I saw thing and if my understanding is right, you pay more for the army bundle than for the items individually and there is no difference.
Please tell me i'm wrong about this because that is a $10 difference.
According to this you get the same amount that you get in the boxes. (5 tanks and 2 choppers)
Even if that's correct (and i'm not sure it is, since the delay in shipping meant they added extra stuff to that box), you're getting the extra objective and the template for that $10, so it's not like you're getting screwed.
Anybody got any pro tips for a friendly traveler when it comes to fighting German Big Cats out of Remagen? I am going to a 1750 points LLW Red on Blue tournament and I have to pick Allies from Berlin and Desperate Measures. I am looking at these 5 king tiger companies at 1750 points and come up with nothing that can fight them effectively. The best thing I can come up is like take Sturmovik or 152mm Artillery and roll dice really well.
I mean just look at this:
510 Schwere Abteilung (Reluctant/Trained) 1750 points
HQ 2 King Tigers
2 King Tigers
1 King Tiger
Volksgrenadier (8 teams)
Volks Nebelwerfer (3 Guns)
4 SS Panzer Pluton 4 Panzer III L (Fearless/Trained)
Heavy Anti Air Battery (4 8.8 guns with Extra Crew)
I could probably do an infiltrate+ flamethrower assault with a Berlin sturmovyye in Defensive Missions, but otherwise the Cats are going to stay at long range and shoot a trained soviet army to shit. Anybody fought these German Companies and can offer some advice?
160mm mortars; artillery, the heavier the better and preferably Hero; Sturmoviks; Pioneers or infantry with integral Panzerfausts.
Also, I'd focus on stripping the support: take that away and the KTs are easier to deal with.
Heavy arty to blast his AA & nebels (have both observers spot these from different positions so they can't be smoked), a medium tank platoon to kill his Panzer IIIs when the 88s have been cleared. and whatever you like to kill his infantry. Sturmoviks to annoy the cats and maybe kill one (prioritise his CiC or 2IC, or whichever tank is in the open) - remember heavy AA only gets one shot against air. Then just dig in your infantry on objectives and wait.
You also get the artillery template and a resin objective marker in the Bundle.
The template is pretty low quality, but I'd say the objective marker is well worth the additional price.
Only the US got the objective marker; the soviet box just got the shitty template.
Honestly if it'd just been acrylic, I'd have been fine with it. Cardboard, though? Just... Really?
That was kinda my thoughts as well.
It's not horrible, and the print job is good, but it still feels cheap compared to the plastic template we'll be getting eventually.
"Not having any stationary fire profile" isn't really a problem because you can always just say "I move this model fractionally". The only way I can see it being an issue is if a unit has a weapon that only fires from stationary and one that only fires from the move.
If I remember correctly, the Vallejo Air range uses the same pigments as their regular ranges, so English Uniform, I'd assume.
At least, that's the colour that was in the Battlefront British Paint sets, iirc.
It's this a game-balance thing to try to compensate for the fact that American and German infantry have more AT than they know what to do with, or does Battlefront actually think some welded-on fencing material would have the same effect as a tank's turret and sides being covered with armored skirts.
You do know a lot of schurzen were actually mesh screens, right? The solid plates you see in BF sculpts weren't the only style avaliable. Notice that it gives the same save that a few mm of armour loosley hanging on racks from the side gives, and only against weapons very sensitive to that sort of thing. 'armoured' is giving it a bit too much credit.
Not to mention they were effective because they're not meant to block shots, they're mean to prematurely detonate HEAT rounds, which are very sensitive to that sort of thing.
Do you actually think that the Soviets were putting them on thousands of tanks for shits and giggles? They just issued them and slapped them on without testing? Testing using the literally thousands of Panzerfausts they'd captured? After losing also literally thousands of tanks to Infantry based AT?
Goddamn anon. Get it together.
As >>44860499 mentioned, the Panzer IV J had mesh instead of armour plates as side skirts, as you can see here:
The principle of spaced armour protects against high explosive anti-tank (HEAT) projectiles which create a focused jet of plasticised metal, very effective at the focus point, but much less so beyond there. Relatively thin armour plates or even metal mesh, much lighter than fully protective armour, can be attached as side skirts or turret skirts on tanks and other armoured vehicles. This light armour detonates the warhead prematurely so that the jet of metal is focused well before the main armour, becoming relatively ineffective.
Do we have any preview of what the British paras weapon box will be? Mortars and MGs I assume, but there's only one mortar used in paras groups, and they're not going to make a full box for only 8 teams, I assume.
how dare you go after poputchik, fascist dog.
I'd listen to Virus, he knows what he's talking about.
All-tank lists are difficult to use well and have difficulty dealing with infantry in a well-prepared defensive position.
There are work-arounds if you're dead-set in going vehicle-only, but generally speaking you'll want to try to build a solid combined-arms force with tanks, infantry, artillery, etc.
I just started playing flames of war and i bought and assembled 5 panthers along with the German force from open fire.
Are panthers worth playing at all for how expensive they are or should I use those points for artillery, AA and more infantry such as pioneers and recon units?
Panthers should be seen as a corner stone of your army, Panthers are a thing you decide to bring early in the making of the Army list. You probably won't ever use Five unless you're doing one of the Reluctant Trained lists, two or three is a good solid Anti-Tank force.
I believe that there are two kinds of Flames of War Players. Those who believe that All Tank lists can work, and those who have experience playing Flames of War. Tanks are great, but they can't hold ground, they are rarely good at assault, they're vulnerable to Infantry AT weapons in assault, there's a thousand and one different reasons why you can't do all tanks. I think you could get some progress these days with a Soviet Army with a lot of breakthrough guns, but you'd still be short artillery, Recon, and the ability to hold ground. Nothing hurts more than a sudden last turn Light Tank grab for your objective when all of your army is too far away for you to respond.
Panthers are worth taking in groups of 3s?
Here's the list I'm working with from Bridge to Bridge.
SS Kampfgruppe Spindler
Company HQ with Panzeerfaust smg and 2 panzershreck teams
2 SS panzergrenadier platoons with 3 squads each
3 panther A's for 640 pts
total of 1345
don't know whether to fill the rest with AA or artillery
Artillery is more useful than AA, although if you can get Nebelwerfers, you can get cheap artillery for smoke and the occasional High Explosive bombardment and AA probably.
And that would bring you up to Six Platoons.
one list people have looked into is the CV Panzer Group from Desperate Measures:
1 Panther in HQ
2 in one platoon
2-4 of something supplementary in another
1 Tiger in Support
add other stuff to fill pts.
yeah, it's not 'all the Big Kitties!' but Flames of War is the kind of game where Full KG Bake is the realm of 3000 pt games...and you will see A LOT of sov' tanks on the other end of that match...i could take 2 Hero Tankovy up against that....
do you know if your buds will plat 2000-3000 pt games? if so, you may just get to face the red tide, and see how great you can do at it.
>I think you could get some progress these days with a Soviet Army with a lot of breakthrough guns
nope. NOPE. nope, nope-itty nope.
i ran a few supplementary ISU's in my list last tourney
worst choice ever.
SU-122 or bust, and lo, that weapon doesn't have the armor to toe-to-toe tanks or AP to adequately aggress most counters to SPG breakthrough. i'm sorry, those who are fans (or who fear) Sov' BTG haven't suffered from Slow moving, ROF 1, yes but can you hit it madness?
Soviets need CmbArms worse than any other army in the game....
Don't max BTG....not even with IS-2's
It does the same job, but with less metal and, more importantly, less weight.
Keep in mind these are purely to defeat panzerfausts though, they'd be useless against AT rifles, unlike the shurtzen armored plates earlier German tanks had, which helped defeat both.
By 1945, nobody used AT rifles anymore so it was pretty safe to just use mesh armor, especially since soviet tanks had thick enough side armor that it wasn't a problem anyways.
A Light Self-Propelled Assault Gun Company can take 16 SU-122s and a HQ T-70 for just 705 points , so 32 Breakthrough gun shots per turn. If you're still doing a All Tank List, you could dump in Five IS-2s, and Five T-34/85s for about 1730 points. Six Platoons.
Nebelwerfers' primary advantage is that they're cheap for an effective battery of three compared to a 105mm battery of four.
FlaK 88s are good upper-mid tier AT, but they're not as good for AA because they've got the Heavy AA rule that drops their rate of fire to one even if you bought extra crew. If you want cheap AT for a list, you buy Luftwaffe 88s.
You can't get Medium Assault Guns, the SU-85/100 with the LSPAG. IS-2s are hard to kill and offer more breakthrough gun and some degree of AT. Of course you could drop the stupid tanks only requirement and get better support probably.
Cool. Nebs are a lot cheaper cashwise compared to the 10.5 arty anyways.
Might get some Flak88s also just because everyone at my store uses air and Im getting sick of it and the gun is cool in my opinion.
Any better alternatives than 88's? i have pak40's, panzershrecks and panthers for AT so my list isnt lacking in in that area.
Your cup runneth over with solid AT. With the Bridge By Bridge list you could run Air Support to sweep off their air, or better choice, 2cm AA guns in Luftwaffe El-Cheapo flavour or SS-Fearless flavour.
Depends with what one means with all tank lists. I get accused of using all tank lists but I always throw in a few gun teams or aircraft as support. I very rarely use infantry with tanks because they are to poor offensively. Infantry is too slow and gets shot to pieces when it leaves foxholes, the usually need the tanks to clear an area for them. It is a bit much too count on there being terrain so that they can walk up to the objectives unseen. Infantry that is effective offensively like armored rifle or Japanese use very large platoons and they ain't cheap.
I don't agree that tanks can't take on infantry. They can shoot infantry to death if they have good firepower and they can fight in assaults too if they are veteran. I only do assaults if time is about to run out because they are risky as hell.
I think I will go with some kind of Vistola-Oder Strelkovy. I think heavy artillery would be preferable to the sturmovik, because if they artillery ranges in, it would probably force the big cats to move. Not sure what to bring vehicle wise.
Frankly the best German AA is the 3.7cm IMO, with quad 2cm a close second and 88s in third place, mainly due to their versatility in killing tanks. It's also usually better if you get Wehrmacht AA instead of LW AA as you need to pass skill tests to hit airplanes. LW are cheap but that comes with really shit ratings (RT means if they get pinned they stay pinned and they die easier to boot).
Taking an all tank list is not a bad idea, unless you have enough budget for it, though having combined arms are always better than spamming tanks.
I played several times with 31 M3 lees, 8 SU-122s, 3 ZSUs and a decoy tank platoon (I know it has AA, but at least they are all tank teams) for 1730 points. I changed those SU-122s and decoy tanks with SU-85s or SU-100s when I exepcted to meet tank-heavy list. They worked not bad, untill I met always defending JT list with 2 RV platoons with all PF... ;)
My saying is, go with it if you like it. I had played combined arms lists, but now I am bored with it. A biased list have a lisk of being beaten easily against a counter-biased list, but unlike 40K list-building is not deciding the game in FoW.
That's just about what I was thinking
Nobody I know plays FoW, which is one of the downsides of living in my area, I'm just looking into having another wargame to play when my Infinity group gets a bit stale (we're all ww2 buffs so it's an easy sell)
We most likely will stick to the 1500 and under range, considering we're not about to drop a whole bunch of cash into it
I've been looking into schwere panzerkompanie, gotta download some more books to see what I can move around, that list looks solid
Look at PSC & Zvezda for relatively cheap plastic kits. These will make it much easier to get into FoW than buying BF blisters.
Also, you can try out lists from the older books for free here: fowlists.blogspot.com
Heavy tank lists are *very*, very difficult lists. low numbers, low weight of fire, and more than enough AT floating around naturally in most metas to beat the everliving crap out of them.
It's not recommended for your first list in the slightest. Well, not unless you're a serious masochist and enjoy losing all your games...
Been looking at those guys, 20 bucks for 4 tigers? Sounds reasonable
Thanks very much for the list builder, it'll be super useful!
Not gonna lie, I am a bit of a masochist when it comes to wargames. However since everyone is (or will be) inexperienced I expect it might not be too bad
The main thing with Heavy Tank lists, is that they're acting a bit like a noob barrier. If you don't know how to handel them, you freak out and loose due to them having higher armor and better guns (assuming everyone rolls reasonably statistically). Then you learn how to beat them, and they get beat down into the dirt with no worries.
>Nobody I know plays FoW, which is one of the downsides of living in my area
What part of the world is that?
We've had a few people find other players in their area recently just by posting here on FoW/tg/.
There is KG Hummel which can get decent numbers of Tigers, but even then they'll still likely be out numbered by Medium Tanks with decent AT values.
Heavy tanks are also a bit of a Noob Magnet. Especially the German Kitties. I can't tell you the number of brand new players that come in here wanting to play with "ALL THE TIGERS AND PANTHERS!!!"
And then we have to explain to them why playing a Heavy Tank list is kinda like playing on Expert Mode. Hell, I'm a moderately skilled player myself, and I'm not sure if I could use a Heavy Tank list all that well myself.
>We've had a few people find other players in their area recently
One was quite local to myself. We're slowly working on organizing a Team Yankee group.
And before he says anything, yes, I know I need to email you back. I've been busy.
Miami, FL. Wargames, RPGs and such are pretty hard to come by. As it is my Infinity group consists of 4 people counting myself and that's the only wargame being played in the area anymore other than x wing at an FLGS an hour's drive away
Incidentally, I found a list in DM (Panzer Ausbildungs Abteiling 500) that lets me field 5 panthers, 4 tigers and 2 panzergrenadier platoons for just under 1500!
Yep, and because they all have junk for training and motivation, they'll be bailed, bogged or something else for most of the game.
Cheap KTs are the only reason to take an Ausbildungs 500 list, DESU.
CT is only good enough if you have large quantities, otherwise you won't be able to afford the inevitable casualties and the platoons will break too quickly. CV is best (FV gets too expensive), FT or RV second best, usually, depending on list and taste.
Got it, so maybe more like a veteran panzer kampfgruppe?
HQ (Veteran) Panther G (190 pts)
Panzer Platoon (Veteran) - Command Panther G, Panther G (375 pts)
Panzer Platoon (Veteran) - Command Panther G, Panther G (375 pts)
Schwere Panzer Platoon - Command Tiger I E, Tiger I E (430 pts)
Volksgrenadier Platoon - Command Panzerfaust Assault rifle, 4x Panzerfaust Assault rifle (120 pts)
1490 Points, 4 Platoons
>Heavy tanks are also a bit of a Noob Magnet. Especially the German Kitties. I can't tell you the number of brand new players that come in here wanting to play with "ALL THE TIGERS AND PANTHERS!!!"
Is a panthers primary deck still expert mode?
The problem with Panthers is the same as the problem with Tigers and King Tigers. Too few vehicles for the points.
If you want Confident Veteran German Cats, you're paying for it points-wise and not getting a lot of vehicles.
Or you can take Confident Trained, Reluctant Trained, or even Reluctant Vteteran Cats, and be getting a few more vehicles on the field, but getting hit more often, and not wanting to stay in the fight when they do get hit.
I've actually never had a problem with Panthers before in my games. My Berlin list runs four Panthers, and it operated just fine in the two games I played with it. I had to use some Volkssturm to allow for the Panthers, but other than that it went just fine.
Especially at 1500 points, 5 Panthers is overkill, even more so with 2 Tigers. Drop the second platoon. Increase the size of the infantry platoon (otherwise it will be nigh useless) and get them armoured transports, and fit in some armoured cars for recon and AA.
Reluctant doesn't mean that much when you're not planning on assaulting, and have Protected Ammo. That's one of the more obnoxious bonuses to Germans. You can pay less for worse motivation, and it's largely moot since you can hang back, have a good chance of remounting a vehicle even when Reluctant, and can take platoon counts of 1 or 2 big cats to avoid ever taking a platoon morale.
Been a while since i've been here or played FoW but i'm trying to get back into it and was wondering if you guys could drop some thoughts on the list i'm putting together. This list comes to us via Road to Rome.
4/8th Indian Div Rifle Company (F/V)
HQ + transport = 40
Gurkha Rifle Platoon + Sherman Kangaroos w 50s = 275
Gurkha Rifle Platoon + Sherman Kangaroos w 50s = 275
Heavy Mortar Platoon + Transport = 180
Carrier Platoon (1 patrol) w Indian Pattern Carriers = 100
Indian Recce Platoon (UC + Extra MGs) = 160
Polish Pancerny Platoon(3 F/V Shermans) + 50s = 285
Polish Pancerny Platoon(3 F/V Shermans) + 50s = 285
AOP + Dixie Air Support = 35
Limited Air Support = 170
Total = 1805
A Firefly can be added to the Polish Tank platoons but at severe cost. Able to part with one of the Recce platoons if necessary.00
What point value are you aiming for? 1850? 1900?
If so, I'd say adding in the Fireflies might be a good idea. The AT 10 of the standard Shermans is ok, but you lack a good solid punch should you encounter any heavy tanks.
1800 is, or was, a staple around here when I last played.
Honestly with the number of platoons I have that are on the light end points wise I can mix and match for most point levels. I'll probably end up adding those two Fireflies in for larger games anyway.
Yeah this list doesn't answer to big armor well. The air support is spotty and the armor without the Fireflies is sub par. By my estimates it would deal well with most everything else though.
The BF platoon box is quite good desu. The battle damage looks really nice.
No. I live in the suburbs of New York. On Long Island.
The reason you might remember me talking about Atlanta is because I go down there at the end of the summer every year for Dragon*Con.
Oh, you better not be pulling my leg! Are you sure you didn't just confuse it with the relatively new Tiger I model? If not, I really want to see a source before I start dancing like a happy kid...
That's looking like a nice lineup they're getting.
Well, the pioneer blister has a bunch of flamethrower armed figures. If you're talking about the 3rd grenadier platoon getting upgraded to pioneers deal, they don't get flamethrowers.
If you're CONVERTING Grenadier figures to Pioneers, you could use any of the figures with a rifle, but paint the rifle black/gunmetal, and green stuff up a little tank on the back. A few fake smoke/flames bits and perhaps a wire between the tank and 'flamethrower' should make it look like what you need. I know the T-34 from PSC come with little spare fuel tanks, I'm sure other tank kits might have something similar.
Why? Are you in the Atlanta area?
I have a friend or two that lives down there if you need recommendations for game stores.
I think he plays Trek Wing at a store called Dr. No in Marietta, GA. Not sure if they play DoW there though...
I had forgotten about that game.
All things considered it was a decent strategy game and got a lot right about 40K, but it was no WarCraft II, StarCraft or Red Alert.
There's a couple stores in the area that I know of that atleast sell it. Hobbytown USA in Kennesaw, Meeple Madness in Flowery Branch has Team Yankee according to their Facebook page but Ive never noticed it on their shelf, but I admit I havent been in there a ton, and I believe Gigabyte in Marietta. I live north east of Atlanta so Meeple Madness would be closest. Not sure how active the community is. I asked about FoW at Hobbytown and they said they dont get a ton of traffic.
Im not really a name on the hobby radar here. My wife and I moved to the area from the boonies of Arkansas to be close to my folks so they would lend a hand with the baby when needed. Ive got a small comic/hobby store I go to that's Im pretty happy with but the current big thing other than fucking Magic is X-wing, which just replaced Warhammer. I try to mostly go with a buddy of mine so I know one other person there other than one of the employees that I know from a couple years back. Im not able to too reliably due to little man and here lately the buddy of mine, who lives in the same apartment complex as me, hasnt been responding to his phone. So its a weird situation all around. I may try to start picking things up piecemeal and see if there's any interest, and not add something new to the mothball display case with my X-wing and Warhammer models.
Typically they do include the words "mortar platoon" in the name, but might have something else in front of it.
Like Fallschirmjager Mortar Platoon, or SS Heavy Mortar Platoon, or Panzergrenadier Mortar Platoon, etc. depending on what part of the German military that particular unit belonged to.
It makes shaped charge warheads like Panzerfausts, Panzerschrecks, and Bazookas detonate before they are in contact with the hull of the vehicle. It's fairly common in the middle east amongst well supplied military forces to protect from RPGs.
Funny thing about this right. There's some discussion that Armoured Skirts in WW2 actually made the problem worse by increasing the standoff distance of the warheads to a useful degree.
Well, the main thing to remember is that schurzen aren't initially there to stop panzerfaust or bazooka rounds; they were initially designed to cause antitank rifle bullets to deform and tumble before impact, lowering the penetration on the globally-thin side armour of german tanks. Mass capture of panzerfausts and the arrival of the bazooka post-date the introduction of schurzen, and anything that makes it's way to the field is always preceded by some time in manufacturing and design.
I thought it was the cause a barrier to prevent magnetic charges from attaching, which was retarded because only the Germans used magnetic charges anyways. Or is that one other counter measure Im thinking of.
Didn't the Russians use magnetic grenades at Kursk? I could swear I read that in a book, hiding in tall grass and waiting for tanks to pass in order to give them a nice present on the engine...
You know it, this place sucks for any gaming that doesn't require a plug to the wall
If only it wasn't nearly impossible to find people with whom to game it would be perfect though
I did find a good deal of 5 tiger 1's in 15mm for $20 which is nice, and have two people more or less sold on the game (one on the condition that he can play the luftwaffe, is that even possible?)
Now debading whether buying the open fire starter is a good idea
You can play the parts of the Luftwaffe that was actually on the ground. So either Fallschirmjägers (Fearless badasses...or sometimes not so badass, but still very fearless) or Luftwaffe Feld Divisions (neither fearless or badass, but the potential to be many). Pilots and airplanes? Not so much, though some Air Support is generally available on most fronts.
I'm also in the Miami area, I've contemplated getting back into FoW - at 6mm (doing Team Yankee in 6mm now) - the change in scale really revitalized my interest in Battlefront's rulesets.
I also happen to know more than 4 people who play Infinity.
I hated it when the voted best store in the State (and the only one near me) was this place called Tates Comics in Boynton Beach, about 1-2 hours away using SR 7. The traffic was apocalyptic.
It looked like a great clean place, horrifying to get there. I would've *loved* to have actually done something there other than buy my Twilight 2013 book from them.
Cool, Fallschirmjägersseem really awesome, but he'll probably complain about the lack of actual planes, we'll see
Heard that name before, but can't recall where
Whereabouts anon? My group and I have been looking for some people with no luck
Yeah, any time I hear about something it's gotta be north of Fort fucking Lauderdale
Nearest to me is Sunshine Adventure Gaming but they only do x-wing nowadays and it's a whole hour away
I've been giving it some thought to opening a gaming club, but I don't have the time nor the money..
There's a Tate's in Lauderhill (I just learned about the Boynton Beach location from >>44895645 )
I'm 30-45 minutes from Sunshine in Miami-Dade & from the stores in Broward County (about an hour with traffic from Tate's in Lauderhill) living near the county line makes everything fairly even as far as drive time.
There are two guys who still play FoW at Sunshine - usually on Thursdays. It's kind of sad because they've had to bring all of their own stuff to play (which wasn't the case a while back ago).
I haven't played FoW since the previous edition - I used to use a lot of Armoured Recce (Cromwells & A30 Challengers) and Panzeraufklärungs with Panzer II as the combat teams - have those lists received any TLC from newer books?
I was referring to the Luchs, yeah. I have a fixation on light tanks & armored cars. Also: Thanks for the references.
I recall there was a PDF list (Panzers to the Meuse, maybe) that had the option for a fairly mixed battlegroup (you could do assault guns and heavier tanks as the combat platoons, I think). I'm assuming it has made its way into a book by now?
It's as much the community as it is the store: The FFG community just worries about itself - so long as they can play CCGs and X-Wing, who cares what else goes on. Warmahordes & 40k sort of put themselves in a spot to be pushed out of the store. Nothing new gets much traction. FoW suffered from most of the playerbase having to deal with being family men - Wife & kids, you move for a job, retirement, etc. I'm vaguely connected to the rest of the local community - but I'd rather just collect stuff for games I'm interested in and when the community gets around to giving a damn/trying something new I'll be ready.
>FoW suffered from most of the playerbase having to deal with being family men - Wife & kids, you move for a job
Yeah, I've noticed that FoW tends to have a olayer base that has reached that "responsible adult" stage of their life.
Which makes one wonder what the fuck I'm doing playing this game...
Real shame, but you definitely have the right idea
Makes sense, now that I think of it I hadn't really taken an interest in this game until now that I have a full time job and pay rent and shit
They get skullfucked pretty badly in LW. Mixed bag everwhere else. The combat platoons are very cheap on the whole, so they tend to be well supported. They have to assault dug in infantry, and fend off tank hordes though. Tricky.
There's Desperate Measures if you want tank lists with all sorts of platoons in them, and then there are a whole bunch of other lists that mix weird platoons in the Late Late War books (Bridge at Remagen, NachtJager, Berlin). Panzers to the Meuse is still Panzers to the Meuse, I have a bad feelign they won't even put it in the Bulge book that comes out later this year...
Then there's Battlefront's new great idea of digital exclusive lists for Forces of War (they bought Easy Army and renamed it). A detestable practice. For Berlin for instance they had ~7 lists in the book, and about 3 times that many 'digitally exclusive'. Most of which were German, while in the book there's only... one.
How many recon platoons should I have, for example I plan on selling my American tank army I tried to build but never got the time to finish, now want to build a British rifle company and I don't know how many carrier platoons to get.
Also what model would I use to represent the troop carriers. I saw that they have carriers for everything except can't find what carrier to use for the HQ.
It's an oft repeated line over in /hwg/ that historicals have a much bigger audience compared to sci-fi and fantasy wargames. However, I've seen little evidence to support this, as I've been unable to find a group in Delaware, but plenty for 40k and WarmaHordes. Is my area the problem, or is /hwg/ full of it?
Mostly full of it. All the places I've lived, warmahordes, Infinity, and the like by far dominated alongside FoW. Shit like Napoleonics is becoming exceedingly rare, as it dies off with the US grognards, for example.
Actually I remember one time I was talking to someone about how nice 15mm scale is on the wallet, and some dude walks up, "15mm? Fuck, finally; I was on the verge of selling my napos." We were talking about Tomorrow's War, or Gruntz, or some shit. Good chuckle that was when he realized, no this was not the conversation he was looking for and sodded off.
In closing though, historicals are still popular, they're just not as dominating as they wish.
Virus... Seriously, you could at least *try* to be helpful...
>or is /hwg/ full of it?
HWG isn't entirely full of it, but it's pretty close to being full...
The old grognards that sit around playing Napoleonics, Revolutionary War, or Civil War games are an aging (and dying) breed.
There are exceptions to this of course. Flames of War, Bolt Action, and SAGA all enjoy a significant degree of success, but not nearly to the same extent as something like X-wing. Hell, even the "almighty" Games Workshop doesn't hold a candle to X-Wing.
What historical game are you looking to play?
I wan't to say it's Bartosz, but don't quote me on that.
>lives in the SLC area.
both names mentioned can roll into town with a full day trip, but one of us is now another state.
best thing about Salt lake: GAJO games. this Great Tier store only has 3 stories, 2 dedicated to game play, so you could throw 2 tourneys at once here...
and it carries Mini games exclusively, with a strong historic bent. no Infinity or (latest kickstarter game), but you will never have to deal with YuGiOh players here...ever.
though, there are kids who play minis....
second best thing: we have 7 other games stores to choose from.
Actually really good. Bartosz showed this store that's almost heaven on earth. Believe it's called GAIJO games or something like that. 3 stories, carries almost all of FOW's line, and an insane amount of terrain. Other than that, no idea.
It was an awesome enough place that I wanted to move there for that store alone, if that tells you anything
Oh yeah and this is Hungariboo by the way.
If I could get more than one fucking day off a week I'd be down there in a heartbeat Bartosz. It's a fucking desert for gaming up here at Copper Mountain CO.
Seriously, its killing me.
Not as salty as you
glad to hear you're impressed. we've a ton of FoW Players, but the more Anon we get, the less guaranteed rivet counters.
we have one guy who is strict historical. and he heads the moderns....oh, sadness.
Hungariboo is a bro. and next time we tourney, you'll roll Gloria Hungaria all over Allied asses.
about fucking time. say it louder.
also, organization. my 28mm falschirm' can't Chain Of Command because the org chart they force you to play isn't accommodating to my FG heavy truppen, despite being closer to 9th army's org than anyone who leaned that heavily on Kar98 and MG-42....
Honestly, I was hoping someone would shoot me down, so that I could find games that used similar basing and organization. This is my biggest problem with Team Yankee so far. The infantry are already out of whack if I was thinking of using them with other games. The other problem is more easily rectified, but unless I missed something in TY, there should be 10 bmps per motor rifles company, not 5? was it? Would it make The US player cry more?
But yeah, I hate that 'hurp durp can use models for anythingz' opinion. Sometimes even between editions of DBA/DBM or whatever the fuck that is a nope. I mean sure, I can base stuff however I want, but if I take my figs to a tourney, or move to a different town, suddenly none of my shit sticks anymore.
I can reach over to my bookshelf and pull out 3 rulessets I can use my FoW-based 15mm models in without modification to the rules or models. And that's without having to go looking.
That is delightful, anon. Which ones? Just to name a few off the top of my head without even going to the bookshelf, my Fow cannot be used with BKC/WRG/Schwere Kompanie, etc. Likewise, TY cannot be used with CWC/WRG/Grozny/FFOT/AK47R, etc. I am just frustrated with having to buy so much more shit just to play games with the same miniatures.
Battlegroup definitely, if you don't mind having casualty counters next to every base. But not FFoT, unless there's something different between versions? Each stand is a whole squad, so if you're really playing 1:1, that's still incompatible.
I'm looking at the AFFOT V3 rules right now, and it gives pretty clear guidelines for breaking up platoon stands into squad stands. That the same would apply to squads into teams seems fairly obvious. I've played it that way many many times.
Have anyone else's local gaming stores had issues getting TY stuff in stock?
I heard from my local store that their distributor didn't even get in the stuff they ordered.
Going by the talk on the various FB groups, it seems that demand is about triple what BF were expecting, which would kind of explain things...
Well, my FLGS has had Panther/Jagdpanther kits in stock several different times, so that might be one of those fluctuating stocks things.
Also, sometimes items on backorder at a distributor will suddenly disappear from their administration; my FLGS has had that issue with several different distributors in the past.
When was the last time you checked if they still had your order on file?
My local source tried ordering them from BF a few times, and each time they said "sure" until they sent the order, when they became "out of stock". Since the market here is really small for this stuff, he could only order 2 maybe 3 times per year. Now I ordered them from the UK, from element games (along with some other stuff), they ordered it from BF and got the same treatment. So they sent everything else on the order, and tried again with BF. I'm gonna wait and see how many orders it takes to get me those panthers, at least they seem to be doing those on a weekly basis.
Still no churchills, here.
Also, I've found historicals players are less likely to care about having stuff "correct", like bases, etc, than people are for other games. I've seen 40k players flip shit about a square-based model, but historicals guys are more like "They're FJ, I can see that" and don't mind it's a square FoW base and not a round base or whatever.
Yeah, comes with the ruleset. Historical rulesets have highly varied base requirements, so you can't really fixate on one. More gamey rulesets though, that sort of thing can be more important, so if you're fixed to a system people can care about it.
>it seems that demand is about triple what BF were expecting
That's what I like to refer to as "the right kind of problem".
If demand for Team Yankee is 3 times greater than they were expecting, then it seems like they have a smash hit success on their hands.
That being said, underestimating demand has been a Battlefront problem for several major releases. You'd think they'd have learned by now.
This depends. There's various levels of historical gamer obsessiveness. It ranges from laid-back players who only care that you're using proxies that are 'close enough' that they don't have to ask you every few minutes what the hell that model is supposed to be... all the way to annoying players who are not totally happy until your force is exactly modeled on a real historical unit, right down to markings, exact composition for the time frame, and so forth.
LGS ordered the infantry the day they were announced, never got them. Was told repeatedly stock was allocated by date. Working his way up the chain, it turned out that nobody in BF USA actually knew precisely how the allocation computer worked, which predates BF itself. The guy who maintains it lives in New Zealand. They were "investigating" it last time I checked. There are literally no infantry left now regardless.
Battlefront: miracles into mistakes.
I'll have to double check the official release schedule that BF posted. But I honestly thought that the transports were January, and the guys that ride in them were February.
yeah, those fucking bastards, shitting up our nice thread!
yes, from now on, let's mention any alternate rules sets. this is a FoW thread, but if someone is bitching, it is our opportunity as gentleman gamers to give them a choice with their models and games.
...let the sperg types shit up 40K threads.
why is BF goign to 1420 pts for tourney? that is one lame duck decision. they just waffled off all their heavy tank players that don't play asbildungs....
sure, Breakthrough Shills are showing how viable it is....
that extra 80 pts gets me nebels, you cunts!
>they just waffled off all their heavy tank players
Yeah, I'm sure both of them are real angry.
Beyond that, it's not been this low before. Good way to change up the meta. We've done 1490 and 1550 before, this isn't that different.
Eh, I kinda agree with >>44919284.
1420 points is anemic. Especially when compared to the formerly high points values of the past few years. 1790 and 1900 were both jumps up from the semi-standard 1750 that a lot of places tended to run their tournaments at.
Now they've dipped down below 1500, the smaller of the commonly played points values.
What is the difference between normal panzergrenadiers and gepanzerte panzergrenadiers?
Just the transports they have available? It seems kinda silly that the gepanzerte are cheaper even though they get half tracks instead of trucks
The difference is more important in support options. Gepanzerte tend to have more mobile support, like mortar & cannon totting half-tracks, as opposed to regular panzergrenadiers who have everything in or pulled by a truck (which you obviously never want to drive around in, on a battlefield).
Some gepanzerte lists also get more tank support, if I recall correctly.
They're pretty fun lists, until you realize your chosen units mean you gotta paint up over a dozen half-tracks...
Another difference is that the Panzergrenadier list is both the Panzer Division and Panzergrenadier Division options lumped together, making for some unhistorical combos for players unfamiliar with the differences between the two.
Use the 3-ton trucks, not the Kfz 70 trucks
Can use the mortar platoon
Panzer support should be StuGs, not IV's or Panthers
No heavy platoon, but they sometimes had a machine-gun platoon. Take the heavy platoon with just MGs to simulate this platoon, but with 3-ton trucks instead (no one will mind, the stats are exactly the same).
No armoured artillery, just motorized
No armoured Aufklärungs, Panzergrenadier, or Pionier platoons in support, just motorcycle/wagen and motorized versions respectively
No self-propelled infantry guns
All the options except 3-ton trucks and the mortar platoon
Usually no StuGs
I was thinking more in terms of what could back up my schwere panzers, rather than building infantry outright
My idea was to include one or two platoons of guys because I was told all-tank lists were bad
Oh, then yes, definitely get the gepanzerte platoon. Aside from the fact that the transports can stand up to rifle fire (which you should only try once enemy AT has been neutralized), you get the option to do mounted assaults (see the rulebook for this special rule) which may not always be desirable, but is quite fun and against enemy infantry without AT gear (panzersfaust/schrek, bazookas or any sort of pioneers) very nice.
What should I take against anti-tank infantry though? I've heard anti-air against infantry in general but I can't imagine a wirbelwind doing good against AT guns
There are a few options. Motorcycles are not one of them.
You'll likely want to bring a Recon unit, they make it easier to hit dug-in infantry with your shooting.
Then you'll want a weapon that can pin them down. Mortars or artillery are good, as are machine guns. Flamethrowers can also be quite vicious.
Units that can fire smoke will make it difficult for the enemy to see you as you move into assault position.
Then you'll want some hard-hitting infantry of your own to go in there and kill the enemy infantry in assault and take their position.
Infantry are a problem when they're totting AT if they're dug in and gone to ground. To remove them, you either use specialised weaponry like breakthrough guns (found on StuHs, Grilles, Brumbars or Jagdtigers) or flamers (pioneers, flame tanks or flame halftracks - these are available to less lists) or you need to assault them with your own infantry.
If the enemy infantry have no AT gear, then just walk all over them with your panzers. Tigers are especially good in this case, as they have a Top Armour that makes them immune to conventional infantry in assaults.
As Eagles mentioned above, recon is very useful as they can remove 'gone to ground' from the enemy before you shoot them.
If you're going to assault them, make sure they're pinned. This will reduce their rate of fire (they get defensive fire before you assault, and too many hits on you can break off your assault before it begins). They are either pinned through bombardment (mortars, artillery, aircraft), flamers, or a certain number of hits (normally 5, but soviets are bastards and they need twice that number).
That infantry platoon you want to get in your force will also be necessary sometimes to plop down on an objective or strategically important area and dig in and be just such a nuisance to the enemy, so don't think that if you get a few breakthrough guns, you no longer need the infantry. You won't always be the attacker.
Just got back from my FLGS, where I picked up a pile of Panzerfaust-toting Soviet infantry for those Berlin lists before playing a 60-point game of TY.
We went for this points value because the store owner was still kinda limited by the minis he'd assembled and brought along.
He was playing a US list: 1 HQ M1, units of 3 and 2 Abrams, 2 VADS and 2 Cobras.
I was running a HQ T-72, units of 5 and 4 T-72s, 4 Shilkas, 4 recon BMP-2s, 3 Gvozdikas and a BMP-1 OP.
We simply ran a fair fight mission.
Turns out that recon unit can be pretty nasty: I was able to set up 4 T-72s inside a forest, just over 20cm away from a trio of Abrams.
When I got the first turn, they would of course move forward in an attempt to get some flank shots on those Abrams.
Unfortunately, 3 out of the 4 tanks ended up getting stuck in the woods. That kinda hindered that plan.
In the end, though, this was kind of a slaughter.
I knocked out one Cobra on turn one with my Shilkas, causing the other one to run off.
In return, I lost two of my Gvozdikas and two of the T-72s in the forest (plus one more bailed) to the enemy tanks. Both units passed their morale, though.
On the next turn, the Gvozika decided to hide while the intact T-72s and BMPs set up a long-range crossfire on one platoon of Abrams. They blew up one and bailed the other. THe third one had gotten stuck on the enemy turn out of formation and the unit decided to run off. In the woods, the remaining duo of T-72s tried to blow up the abrams also in the woods but missed their flank shots. The third T-72 there failed to remount. The Shilkas also savaged the VADS, destroying one and chasing the other off after bailing it.
On the US turn 2, the remaining Abrams just stayed in their patches of forest, firing at the nearby T-72s but missing.
Next turn, the T-72s blew up one Abrams and caused thaty platoon to run. Other units occupied objectives.
The HQ Abrams managed to blow up the Soviet commander before the game ended.
Got it, unfortunately there is no flammenwerfer pioneers available for schwere panzer so I gotta find a way to get some other stuff into the list
Recon is easy, bikes are pretty cheap, other than that I'm thinking air support to pin, or find a way to wiggle one of those hilarious little brummbars in there
If you're going to use air support for pinning, remember to hold off on rolling air dice until the crucial moment. You'll have 3 dice, needing at least one 5+ to get air support when and where you need it.
Probably end of year, or next? Unless Battlefront realizes how easily a digital card would be as a stopgap?
Either way, I hope they put out T--55's, T-62s, BTRs, etc. I want to be that masochist.
Wonder if team yankee will include lists for countries other than US and USSR, like British, French and such allied with the Americans while the pinkos get shit like China and Cuba
Battlefront's plastics are good.
The only real exception to that are the British tanks in the original run of the Open Fire kit, but I believe that's been fixed since then.
>The only real exception to that are the British tanks in the original run of the Open Fire kit, but I believe that's been fixed since then.
This cannot be emphasized enough. The "First Generation" british Shermans were very obviously the first plastic tanks designed by Battlefront. The british Shermans now available are miles ahead (and are the ones in the new Open Fire). If your only experience with BF plastic tanks are those early Shermans, do yourself a favor and try again (they even have small 2-tank boxes for sale now). Be amazed. Never go back to resin again.
Oh boy, I would definitely jump on that too if I could play the Bundeswehr, leopard 2's are the shit
Not that the abrams isn't boss as fuck but I'm a total deutchaboo
So, let's assume that I'm expecting to face some Russian tanks, and that I love PaK 40s. How does the following list look?
Sturmkompanie (78. Division) - 1750pts
HQ: 2 Faust/SMG Cmd, 2 Schreck
Platoon: Faust/SMG Cmd, 6 MG teams
Platoon: Faust/SMG Cmd, 6 MG teams
Heavy Platoon: Cmd SMG, 2 HMG, 2 Mortar
AT Gun Platoon: Cmd SMG, 2 PaK 40
Heavy AT Gun Platoon: Cmd SMG, 3 PaK 40
Heavy AT Gun Platoon: Cmd SMG, 3 PaK 40
Tank Hunters: 4 Marder III M
Heavy Mortars: Cmd SMG, 4 12cm sGW 43
Rocket Launchers: Cmd SMG, 3 15cm NW41
Heavy AA: Cmd SMG, 2 8.8cm FlaK 36 with extra crew
The plan would be to combat-attach the Heavy Platoon and the small AT Gun platoon (and the HQ 'schrecks) into the Sturm platoons to make them 11-stand monsters, backed up by 10 more PaK 40s (3 deploying last as a Pakfront; 4 of them mobile in the Marders).
I'm basically fucked if he doesn't bring tanks, and if I therefore had to attack, but if I'm defending, I'm defending all the way.
Would it be possible to add some fortifications, to make sure you're defending? Or is that option gone in Grey Wolf Revised?
Otherwise, I would personally wish for another mobile platoon (then again, I am a tank player at heart), but other than that, it looks nice.
No joke are they bad. Bloody hell. They just don't fit together without huge gaps in the front and/or sides, and seem to be made of some coarse tough old plastic instead of regular crisp styrene.
Pic are mine, covered in sandbags and filler.
Sadly there are no fortification options, and my mobile choices are two slots: the first is Bäke Tigers (a bit expensive to my mind); the second is either StuGs or Tank Hunters.
I think, if I had to attack, I'd not combat attach the light mortars or the platoon of two PaKs, leaving me at 10 platoons, and relying on 3 templates to pin and smoke.
Speaking of money and such, I figured a good way to introduce my group to FOW is by building some starter armies and Instead of buying miniatures using base-sized tokens
Hopefully this will make the sales pitch easier and one day we'll getthe minis when we're not all broke from buying infinity stuff
So I'm looking for ideas for 500 point late war lists, probably gonna build one for each faction and archetype
As said, BFs first attempt, and thank god they got better.
I would advice going a bit higher, roughly 800 points. 500 doesn't get you much if you're looking at anything other than infantry...
We're in the kendall area, usually meet up at a friend's place in homestead, but been looking for somewhere else a bit further up, by FIU. It all depends on whether another friend of ours can pull some strings
800 sounds reasonable, I'll ask around what they would like to play before I make decisions
well this is my current wip. i know it's going to need alot of work (doing treads separate.)
2 obj markers
doing a black wash .. here is a before and after. going to have to go a little lighter on that wash.
thanks i guess it does look better like that. just did a wash on 2nd tank. going to go hru the remaining 10 doing black then brown then wash one by one. i'll post a 4 tank platoon togehter soon. prob take most of tonight to get 12 tanks done
Found it. Horribly incomplete, but good enough that you can play with it:
Here's a pic from a game a friend and I played with it, me using shermans and panzers for cromwells and challengers.
Kugelblitz was not included as there was a possibility it'd get rules in the Berlin book, or so it was thought.
10cm Tiger has fuck and all historical data on it outside of World of Tanks, so obviously it's not in.
LWL was about stuff that was actually poduced but obscure, protoyped, or closer to actual production than not. The only big exception, the Ratte, is mostly a joke entry sice FiB came out with a ratte model while LwL was being written.
It's cited as having been a proposal along with various other pie-in-sky features on wikipedia, with a citation from what looks like a history book rather than a web article, but that said if the intent was for things that might have seen the war "if only" then the 10.5cm is clearly out.
Yeah, the intent of Late War Leviathans was essentially to provide stats for tanks that had been built but not made it into combat.
Like the Maus. Two were built, but they almost certainly never saw combat.
Or the IS-3. They missed fighting in the war by mere weeks. But they made it to Berlin in time for the Soviet victory parade.
you will fuck bitches.
got it right the first time: if you wash, wash a dark over a lighter undercolor..then it evens out. i hate watering down washes.
i am still debating buying IS-3's for my Soviets...
thanks .. update 8/12 done . still need to do detail work.
Not bad at all, take a look at the pioneer platoon and the 15cm panzerwerfers as well though.
You have access to a 10 stand CV pioneer platoon in your support options that could make a good assault option, especially with the Sturm platoons supporting it, since the pioneers have high AT in assault and can take flamethrowers. Plus they can lay down a minefield, the ultimate troll tool against armor.
Panzerwerfers are fun because in emergencies they can be used as light armored cars with their MG's and they can test to remove smoke trails.
Also, consider the HS129 B or B3, or as its sometimes known, the Duck. The B3 has a massive 75mm cannon mounted to its underside with AT15, which will damn near auto penetrate any side armor in the game (which is what it automatically hits in an airstrike) It will allow you to deal with random bullshit tanks that can shrug off pak 40's from the front, and give you some barebones AA in a pinch.
Yeah, I looked at the HS129; Flying Tank looks like a fun rule for no-selling light AA. If I swapped it in, I'd probably trade out the 88s, as they are probably one of the units that adds least above and beyond my existing hail of PaK.
>can you magnetise the turrets?
i did just that.
they originally come with a tab you glue in the top hull plate and lines up with the bottom turret's indentation. But i wanted to magnetize them instead.
These magnets were 1/8th x 1/8th cylinders. i think were perfect. I did have to tap the hole in the bottom a little BUT it fit snug and the height made it so wihile the bottom hull magnet was reccesed the top hull and the 2nd magnet would just reach the recess in the turret.
(basically build the turret, tap the hole in the top hull, take the 2 magnets and put em into the top plate and put the turret on, Glue the bottom magnet and hit with accelerant (USE GORRILA GLUE FOR ONL,Y THIS), then once set put a drop of glue on the top magnet's top and hit the turret with accelerant. put the turret on .. wait 10 seconds.. done.
N48 magnets are strongest you can possibly get for this so let it set. twist and pop off the turret. continue assembly then paint.
Ok all 12 painted/washed now i just need to do detail work and the tracks.
any suggestions on how to handle the tracks? i thoughjt just heavy black wash and then mud them up but i don't think that woudl really look good.