>>44799912 >Casting from life doesn't jive well with me Never played the game, but my friend told me about a system when magic feeds off of your body, aging you.
In general I just hate Vancian and MP because it makes it feel like a game. Fatigue is great because you never know when you'll end up out of energy, each spell just increases the chance of draining you.
>>44797330 The roll to cast includes a chance for the spell to fail or go horribly wrong.
The spells are balanced compared to non-casters so that the caster can fire off spells as often as the melee guy can hit things with his weapon.
Magic is only useful for buffs. You still need someone good with weapons to do the killing, magic merely makes them better at it.
>>44800041 One annoyance about just using time for casting spells is that sitting there casting the spell is boring for the player because their turn consists of "I continue the ritual to cast the spell".
Though I've seen that mitigated by dividing the ritual steps into individual actions. For example, a minor spell requires a 3 action cycle to keep casting it: - One action to exhaust an ability to ready the spell. - One action to cast the spell (unless using it as a counter attack). - One action to refresh the ability so it can be used again. Bigger spells involved readying a basic spell, then converting it to a bigger spell. So it gave a more ritualistic feel than just spending x turns casting. It also means each action gives the player a choice between reading a bigger spell, casting what they have or doing something else.
In the homebrew I'm developing, magic is free to cast at any time, but every time you cast it you roll on a table to see how much supernatural attention the spell just drew to you with higher level spells bringing your existence to the attention of more dangerous entities.
>>44800363 Why? It's supposed to spark interesting discussion and argument >>44800409 >Do tell how those options will be mechanically implemented in an easy to understand format that is also setting agnostic Why agnostic? Different games require different features
>>44800548 >D&D 5e's magic works in custom worlds of a DMs design, not just Forgotten Realms, the default setting. So long as you build your setting to have Vancian magic.
If you build your world for any other option, D&D stops working, but starts working for something else.
D&D isn't really universal, it's just genericized. We look at D&D and see the elements of it as being a staple of fantasy. If we did that with an entirely different system from the get-go, the largest majority of games would be far different from what they are today.
>>44800612 >So long as you build your setting to have Vancian magic.
No, D&D magic and Vancian magic are different. D&D was inspired by Vancian magic, but D&D magic is is mainly a mechanic, Vancing magic is a depiction, akin to mystical mathematics that burn themselves into the brain, where even the most powerful wizards can memorize four spells or so. D&D magic is a mechanical abstraction.
>>44800548 >D&D 5e's magic works in custom worlds of a DMs design If the DM designs them with D&D magic in mind. For example, the DM needs to consider the effects that resurrection magic has on the setting.
>>44800667 >No, D&D magic and Vancian magic are different. No they aren't. Dying Earth Magic is Dying Earth Magic. Vancian Magic is tabletop game magic inspired by Vance's Dying Earth, which uses spell slots.
People have referred to D&D as having Vancian magic forever, so they can keep it. Sounds stupid, anyways.
>>44800378 >Though I've seen that mitigated by dividing the ritual steps into individual actions This works best if your spells are modularly based on those actions, so you can adjust a spell mid-way through and add metamagic actions. So, 1. "I light a candle to open my spirit-invoking spell" 2. "I perform the damage-enhancing prana to double HP damage" 3. "I channel the power of AIR to make my attack lightning-based 4. "I cast mage-blast to fry his soul with hella lightning"
>>44797310 >the number of spells you can cast is equal to the number you know >you get spells back after taking an hour's rest (maybe a little more) >all spells are quite useful and of roughly equal strength >casters learn maybe a dozen spells in their lifetime Why don't more games do this?
>>44800350 Depends on what you mean by "offensive" and what your target is. If you're trying to siege a fort, that fort is going to have a hard time running away. If you're trying to lay waste to an army that's coming to your fort, they're not running away either. If you're trying to kill one man who's standing in front of you, then it would be more efficient to put some steel through his gut. It's not bad for melee and magic to have different utilities.
>>44800409 >how those options will be mechanically implemented True Name: You can pay for the true names of certain servants (demons, elementals, people) at character creation. The rest must be obtained through play, or with DM's permission, purchased with experience as a result of down-time activities. Contagious: I don't know what this is. Ritual: The same way it's already been done in lots of games. Alchemy: Like Ars Magica but with materials. Music: Buffs and shit, you learn a song, or you learn elements and compose songs, and you can play them whenever. Theurgy: This is super non-specific so I don't know what he means. >that is also setting agnostic Having magic at all is already not setting agnostic. Best you can do is offer multiple solutions and let people jut not use the ones that don't fit. It's gonna be a lot better than D&D's "everything must be vancian" at least.
My DM's homebrew system uses a Magic Words system.
Basically, depending on your primary gimmick, you know a certain amount of words. Let's say for example, you know 5 words, and you have Gravity, Push, Flora, Fire, and Area.
So you could make a number of spells from each of those.
>Fire, Area: AoE fire spell >Gravity, Push: Force Push >Fire, Flora: Conjure flaming plants >Gravity, Flora, Area: Cause plants in an area to be pulled towards a point.
Then you rolla Magnitude Die, which is a 1d6 by default, and can go up to 1d10.
>1: Spell backfires >2-3: Spell fizzles >4-5: Weak spell >6-7: Good Spell >8-9: Damn that's a great spell >10: WHAT HAVE YOU DOOOONE
How many words you know depends on your primary casting type.
Wizard casters get less words, but have access to all of them all the time.
Sorcerer casters get way more, but have 2 words, and then a card deck of words, and only have about 2-3 word cards in hand at a time. Basically Sorcerers are more versatile, but also more unpredictable.
Dude, you're literally arguing with Gary Gainax on nomenclature - spells slots = vancian magic, as opposed to Powerpoint system or "narrative magic" or whatever you want to call Mage style of "I can always magic to a set amount, and only circumstances can stop me."
>>44801346 Meant more of extra effects. The spells always deal an amount of damage based on the result of the magnitude die.
Haven't run into any issues yet, since I always explained what I'm going for when using a spell, and he's never interpreted in different ways.
The word system is also how magic items work. Add magic words to an item(and expend some amount of magical resource, depends on setting/what you're using) to make it magic. As a standard, effects added to deal extra damage do 1d4 damage a hit, and up to 2 damage adding effects can be on an item at a time.
>>44800300 True name magic and contagious magic are good in principle but they can be difficult to manage and easy to break. However, both are good tools to integrate storytelling and gameplay.
Alchemy in a classic sense is less magic, more potions. Not bad, but not really magical. Integration with inventory management and prep time keeps things like Potion of Str+2 from getting too out of hand. Spiritual alchemy also doesn't jive well with tabletop settings in general. Not enough outward effect for a strictly magical class but it could sit well as a Monk, Cleric, or Paladin supplement. FMA-style alchemy is basically The Last Airbender minus the martial arts and no element restrictions. Hilarious fun if done right.
Magical music makes every character part bard. I feel neutral about this but I do like that it would mesh with background music very well.
>>44799948 >Fatigue is great because you never know when you'll end up out of energy, each spell just increases the chance of draining you. That's not the fatigue system I'm familiar with. GURPS or Dominions both give you points of fatigue so you still know.
>game uses both a rolling to cast spells on niggas system AND a magic point system
The magic system of Fantasy Craft was the worst part about it to be entirely candid. You could hardly do anything fun with how restrictive the spells were in duration or effect, you couldn't just focus into damage and go full blasting on niggas with some of the martials making you useless in that same respect. The buffs weren't even that good, I guess dual-casting haste was as much use I was to my (min-maxed out the ass) fellows at a certain point but it sure felt kinda shitty to throw out two maximized fireballs a turn (and suck up all my resources in doing so) for a few turns and still get handily out-damaged.
Dunno what the fuck a mage is supposed to do in that system, but at least I was a giant and could casually carry a cannon around if my shitty BAB let me get a lucky hit or two, I guess?
Also fuck enemies not having HP. "I'll just roll to see if mooks die hurr hurr" what an absolute crock of a system. You could expend actual limited effort or not at all and the end result would still be left up to a fucking die roll.
I'm not the most creative guy around, but sometimes I enjoy the idea of making alternate magic systems.
Can anyone rate these?
>A Magic system based entirely on enchanting items. Magic is a bit like radiation and magical objects exude it. Every spell is used via an item; you put ranged spells on wands or small stones you can throw. You put a healing spell on a scroll that can be read to your ally or touch them with a magic feather. Many items that are used are symbolic; you put a light spell in a crystal. To run fast, you use a horse's tail, etc. Some more immediate kinds of magic can be used by sketching magical symbols onto floors and objects, and for instance you could create an object that gives you a certain amount of usefulness as instant magic instead. Such as a magic flask that makes water within it turn to superheated steam, released as a jet attack when released.
>B Magic is calling the names and powers of entities and things from the spirit world. Unlike other forms of similar magic, the entities don't necessarily KNOW they are being channeled, because the Wizard is but a tiny insect drinking from the ocean of their power, but if the Wizard drinks too deeply it can cause the entity to take notice. I'm not usually a fan of this kind of magic, I feel it robs Wizards of their personal power and growth (since it all comes from entities) but this method is an alternate that makes sense to me.
>C Magic is a weird form of meta-reality; anything you've personally seen, experienced or done can be put into magic. If you see a man on fire, screaming in agony then you can do the same to someone else, because you've SEEN it. This concept also goes to the imagination but its much harder, hence really strange and fantastic events and objects, like boiling rain or dragons, are much more magically difficult then simple manipulations of luck and real world concepts.
>>44797310 What's the matter? In my 5e homebrew each class gets Magic points the same way they get Hp. Each class has a dice for it. Sorc gets the highest with d12 Wizards, Druids, Bards and Monks are on pair with each other (yes i replace ki with it suck it) in the mid tier with a d10 And EK, Arcane trickster, Warlock, Pally and Cleric get a d8. Every other non-caster class is a d4.
Monks, wizards, bards and druids train and use their own magic source.
Sorcerers are natural born caster.
Paladins, Clerics and Warlocks are channeling magic from an outside source. And the others are devoting only half their training to magic. Warlocks and clerics however get to expand their magic die when they get an ASI and they can give up 1 point to get a higher magic die instead (from d8 to d10 and from d10 to d12 at a different ASI).
It doesnt really make sense that way either. By that logic, Monk's who cultivate their inner magic entirely through themselves would be higher on their mana dice and druids who get their power from nature should be down with clerics. It's very illogical.
>>44801086 >True Name: You can pay for the true names of certain servants (demons, elementals, people) at character creation. The rest must be obtained through play, or with DM's permission, purchased with experience as a result of down-time activities.
With true name he is problable talking about the d&d one truenamer. -Just verbal components -no mana but each extra time you cast the spell on the same day decrease your chance to cast it (just for the day)
>>44797310 I never liked those dumb "Magic randomly backfires and fucks you over" systems a lot of people advocate here, simply because they make magic not worth it. It's not fun to have your character and their concept destroyed so easily at a single roll, especially when no other class has to. Unless it's a setting where you're meant to be getting killed a lot, like Dark Heresy, in which case it's fine.
But really, it's all a matter of taste. There's no reason to say other people can't like this kind of thing, even if I loathe it utterly.
>>44800409 >ritual magic do specific actions in a specific order and the magic will be cast without fail. No mana needed. On some implementation of this magic system, casting magic is a non 100% literal way will cast a spell that is a little different or will have the thing have a chance to fail. This is sort of not dependent on magic, skill, imagine someone memorising how to turn on a plane, no matter what his flying skill are he will be able to turn on the plane (flying is another thing). So if someone memorise a ritual and to it in a 100% literal way it wont fail. >alchemy Mixing stuff can have not only soft scifi results but magical stuff.
>theurgy follow what god say or help him and he will help your giving you magical powers or helping you in specific situations.
>contagious magic dont know what is that. Maybe some x-men version of magic. Some monsters can do magical stuff without learning magic, so you could have some sort of mutation occur on specific humans that allow them to do specific magical stuff.
>truename magic This is related to the name of things, can have magic points. But many times its just a verbal only version of ritual magic.
>magical music ritual magic but with only a musical component
there is also >'genie' magic You have a genie, and you ask him to cast stuff for you.
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