It doesn't even mean "character I don't like" anymore. It means "character some people on the internet said I shouldn't like".
Google search tells me these are characters from Wizard Poker. I personally find it weird how much fluff there is for this game, but I don't know anything about it at all so I won't comment.
I will go into what I think the term Mary Sue should be used for though. I prefer a conservative approach, but I don't like the "only applies to fan fiction characters" definition. I feel it unnecessarily limits a term that is pretty useful.
I personally use two qualifiers for a Mary Sue.
1)The Mary Sue is always right. As in, objective reality conforms to the character's perspective. All of her observations on the world are correct, even--often especially--if nobody else she meets agrees with her. She never makes mistakes, she is never a poor judge of character, she is never misguided beyond a superficial level.
2)All other characters exist for the benefit of the Mary Sue. Their personalities are defined by their relationship to her. The Villain is only the Villain because he seeks to hinder her. The Love Interest has no personality beyond being the object of her awkward, aww-so-quirky affection. The world literally revolves around her and everyone's motivations can be neatly sorted into either A) killing/capturing her or B) helping her.
Based on these qualifiers, other common standards--like skill, knowledge, power level, etc.--don't make a Mary Sue. That status is defined by both the plot and other characters bending over backwards for her.
>>44759309 >Based on these qualifiers, other common standards--like skill, knowledge, power level, etc.--don't make a Mary Sue. Correct, being overpowered or getting handed artifacts left-and-right, etc, are only gateways into possibly becoming a Mary Sue, but are not indicators of a MS in and of themselves. They are most often an indicator of bad writing though.
>>44759882 Not well-written ones, or rather, not in well-written books. In a good book, the Villain is the Villain for totally unrelated reasons, and the Hero is the Hero because she wants to stop him/do a thing that works against him/etc; the Love Interest is his own character who the Hero happens to fall in love with; in short, the world exists outside of her.
>>44759793 Given he seems to be one of the few people who know who she is it kind of makes sense. Hux thought Ren was being a real weenie for focusing so much on her.
I may be a minority on 4chan but I don't think she's a Mary Sue. She just has high power levels, which isn't exactly new to Star Wars protags. Anakin was far, far worse in that regard. And if /tg/ was around in 1977 we all would've hated Luke.
>>44760198 Luke also had a much more sheltered upbringing. Rey's knowledge of flying, fighting, and languages make sense given where and how she grew up.
Also, after watching it a second time I realized they imply she knows about the Force. I won't lie, I was a little out off by how easy it came to her but it was still more restrained than winning the Daytona 500 when you're nine.
I would like to see her face a lot more adversity in VIII though
>>44760895 Kylo also had her on the defensive for most of that fight. Plus he was mid tier even at his best. His crowning moment of martial prowess was when he and his neo-nazi friends shot up his school
I have a friend who I've been talking about this with. He was also concerned about Rey's power levels, expressing a hope she wouldn't wind up like a certain other female character with special powers that dominated pop culture a couple years ago.
I told him the best way they could make Rey a great character (not that I think she's a bad one) would be to give her her own heroic flaw. For Luke it was impatience. For Anakin, it was ostensibly frustration. For Rey it should be overconfidence. She spends some time training with Luke. This stuff comes easy for her. So she rushes off to face Ren, thinking he's a chump and she can end this now. But then when she gets to him, she realizes too late he didn't bring his A Game last time, and now he's got a lot more training under his belt. So he hacks her arm off because pottery. Bonus points if Luke has to come out of retirement to try to save her, not because "omg Rey is so speshuull" but because he'll be damned if he's gonna let his fuckwit nephew kill yet another student. Maybe he'll even job it, and Rey will have to deal with the fact her own impatience got her here.
Then we go into Episode IX having established a cold, bitter rivalry between these two characters. They've both gone through a transformation. Rey has learned to cool off, and now acts like RotJ Luke. And Ren has finally learned how to be a real badass like grandpa.
Wasn't part of the point of Legend of Korra that Korra was an extremely flawed avatar and needed to grow the fuck up and find balance in herself to try and bring balance to the world?
She also fails both the things used here >>44759309 if we're going to go by that metric. She's objectively wrong a number of times and most of her villains have goals only tangentially related to Korra's position as Avatar.
>implying Korra's bisexuality was the real problem with her character >implying it wasn't the fact she had a score of people willing to die for her despite her being unlikable and confrontational >implying it wasn't her never getting called on her pre-Season 3 bullshit >implying it wasn't her incompetence.
The lesbian stuff was just an example of Bryan pushing a pet idea based on his personal politics. It wasn't very well done, but it certainly wasn't the worst part of the character.
Also, they've been casting a love interest for Finn for Episode VIII. I honestly think Rey will probably be pretty aromantic, much like Luke. Besides, even if she and Finn do hook up at the end, would that be a bad thing? They actually do have chemistry, though most of that largely comes from John Boyega being really likable.
What? No, how could you say that. Everything Korra did was portrayed as right and good by the show in every single context because the show was shitty and terrible and Korra was horrible and she never fucked up and everyone was obsessed with her for no reason and REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I don't think Korra was a Mary Sue. I think they were going for: >an extremely flawed avatar and needed to grow the fuck up and find balance in herself to try and bring balance to the world
but didn't do it particularly well. The most jarring example I can think of was S2 where she barged into her boyfriends office and trashed the place because they didn't see eye to eye on politics, then ran off. And when she comes back, they never address any of that and they're completely okay despite her hissy fit and the fact he'd gotten back with (and promptly dumped) his ex.
She wasn't a Mary Sue, but she definitely wasn't well-written. I guess that's just what happens when you don't have a long term plan for the series.
Well, admittedly when she comes back she doesn't remember the incident and Mako's too chickenshit to spill it. At the end of the season they do face that, realize they're not right for each other at all, and break up permanently but remain friends.
I do feel like the show could've gone a lot better if it had been planned for four seasons, though, there was room for improvement everywhere.
Keep in mind that Korra was only meant to be the first 13 episodes. It was only after how well the first season was received that Nick asked for seasons 2-4 and they kinda had to wing it on the script and be a bit loose with plot holes.
Look at Moors and evaluate it only on the first season, THEN look at season 2-4 and see how it doesn't even stack up to season 1.
As for OP's question, neither are Mary Sues and have actual character traits and flaws, especially now that they've fleshed out Chandra and Lili's backstory a bit more.
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