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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

Thread replies: 96
Thread images: 6
Do you feel like developing a world for your campaign? Reading this book will help you in this endevour.
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Thanks for the recommendation Jared.
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How's 10th grade World History treating you?
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>>44735790
an, at best, shallow examination of the factors that lead to the creation of history as we know it.
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>a bird doctor plays historian/anthropologist, reacting to a slight tendency to downplay environmental aspects by making them responsible for everything: the book
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>>44738634
Nope.

Imperialism can't get anywhere without the resources to actually attempt empire.

Fuck off with your tabula rasa human autonomy uber alles.
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>>44735790
/his/ shitposters fuck off.
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>>44738720
hurf a durf culture means nothing
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>>44738720
No, see, it's in between. The environment has an immeasurable effect on people's situations. As an example, environmental refugees are going to be a huge crisis in the near future due to global warming and such.

The problem with Diamond is that he over-reaches and pretends that human beings acting in various ways, the way cultures form, and so on, simply do not exist. Human existence is a dynamic where the people respond to but also shape their environments.

For more on why Jared Diamond is a fucking idiot that has nothing to do with that particular book: http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/8958
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>>44738766
Culture is irrelevant if you don't have the means.
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Environmental determinism has been discredited for most a century.
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>>44738904
see
>>44738808
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>>44738808 >>44739033

I'm pretty sure he's just trying to explain the unfair advantage Europeans have had in conquering the world.

>>44738997
You can't discredit an unfalsifiable hypothesis.
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>>44738904
Please explain why China and India were completely irrelevant compared to european powers for the better part of two hundred years.
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>>44739078
>I'm pretty sure he's just trying to explain the unfair advantage Europeans have had in conquering the world.
Lots of groups didn't try to conquer the world at all. That's part of it as well. And lots did, and did a fairly good job of it. I mean, look at the Ottoman Empire. It wasn't until capitalism took hold that Europe really went into prime empire mode.

Jared reduces everything to environment, which is ludicrous.
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>>44738766
Culture is a product of environment. If you live on a Tundra you're not going to be able to set up an agrarian civilization because you can't grow crops there.
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>>44738766
you're implying that culture isn't resultant from the culture environment.

If not environment then what?
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>>44738997
*culture's
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>>44738904

what. Are you fucking kidding, mate? Culture sure as fuck isn't irrelevant.
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>>44735790
No it won't
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>>44735790
>>Jared Diamond
Not even trying to hide it. /pol/ was right again
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>>44739148

Diamond specifically points out that even if a group has advantages, they still need a culture that takes advantage of it. He also points out that some cultures are more conservative than others, whilst others are more willing to try new things and adopt new ideas. However, in areas where several cultures exist, the ones who adopt new technology are almost always going to be the ones who develop an advantage over the others. Anomalies exist, like Japan, but as Keegan points out, Japan could, thanks to geography and lack of proximity to ocean-going neighbours who did use cannon-loaded ships, avoid facing consequences for this, until Perry showed up.

>>44739112

I assume you're talking about the past 200 years, because both areas were certainly very relevant compared to Europe prior to this. Regardless, the reason is that Europe developed an Industrial Revolution first. China did have an opportunity and nearly went down the same path, but they didn't Why they didn't is a topic that's still debated today. Some cite difference in Chinese religion and culture vs Western culture, others that British sources of coal were close to industrial regions. Why the West Rules for Now by Ian Morris is a great book on the subject.
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>>44743819
>ocean going neighbor who did use cannon-loaded ships

Not quite ocean going, but they fought and lost quite badly to the cannon-using Koreans. Maybe a better example would be in order
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>>44742806

Jared Diamond says its all environment and denies the reality of race.

Would this mean that elvish civilization gains no benefit from having long lifespans? That humans are more advanced than orcs ONLY because they have more trainable animals(as if Orcs even would try to tame something for any reason other riding into battle)?

Jared Diamond pls
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>>44735790
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ITT people arguing about single determinants of complex phenomena. Where's contingency, bro?
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>>44739112
>Please explain why China and India were completely irrelevant compared to european powers for the better part of two hundred years.
Fucking 'muricans.
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>>44738808
Ah, the old: Western academic goes: "THESE ARE AN ANCIENT PEOPLE LIVING LIKE THIS SINCE FOREVER" while locals go: "Not really, we displaced those negro bastards into the rainforest where they barely get by, we hope they'll die soon, LOLOLOLOL."
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>>44739112
>Please explain why China and India were completely irrelevant

>India
>completely irrelevant

The British Empire would disagree.
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Race is not a social construct. Society is a racial construct.

Cuckservatives and Marxists wilfully ignoring the biological reality of race and its profound impact.
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>>44745354
What is Yellow Peril?
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>>44735790

>guns, germs, and steel

whitepersonridingazebra.jpg
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>>44735790
That book is fucking awful and I hope to God you know it.

>>44738766
Culture does mean nothing you retarded /pol/ack. It is itself a result of material conditions, see?
>>44739112
>India
>China
>Irrelevant
>Ever
No shit you're going to believe in retarded theories like "culture is da most important fing eva" if you don't actually know your basic history.
>>44745468
Race doesn't mean shit.
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Hey fa/tg/uys. I need help on 2 points of my setting. First i need a Paladin oath as paladins in my setting are a big thing; and i don't want to just use Dragon Hearts oath for the millionth time.

And second what do you guys think of Egyptian inspired Dwarfs. They fall into the more artisan aspect of the Dwarfs as opposed to the hardy workers. So they still build massive monuments.. Just on the backs of Goblin slaves and the like.
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>>44746010
It isn't just /pol/tards that criticize Guns Germs and Steel for it's over-reliance on environmental determinism.
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>>44746050
>it's
oops
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>>44746027

First, >>44742198 is probably a better place to ask.

But anyway
>oath
Make it personal. Something like the paladin promising to sacrifice everything they hold dear in order to uphold the tenets of their god/morality/whatever (as in, "I promise to devote myself to God and to do everything I can to spread His word and His goodness, even if it means the death of my family").

>Egyptian inspired Dwarfs
Too chop-suey "let me just mix X with Y" for me. But your emphasis of the artisan is pretty interesting. Personally, I'd go with a more obviously artisanal people like the Greeks (which would allow for some pretty interesting exploration of Greek-style religion where the Titans and Tartarus are the good guys).
>>44746050
No, it isn't. Hence my own criticism. But it is just /pol/acks (or people of that persuasion) that believe that culture trumps environment (usually because they think there are significant genetic differences between races, which requires both a total lack of understanding of history and of biology).
>>44746065
Nobody gives a shit, I guarantee you.
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>genes and evolution mean nothing, seriously goy-...guys!
>jews are genetically smarter than goyim
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*tames a zebra because i am white and not a useless 60 iq negro*
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>>44746075
I wonder when /pol/acks will realise that their arguments can be more easily taken to prove the superiority of the Jewish race than that of Zionism.
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>>44746066
>Too chop-suey "let me just mix X with Y" for me. But your emphasis of the artisan is pretty interesting. Personally, I'd go with a more obviously artisanal people like the Greeks (which would allow for some pretty interesting exploration of Greek-style religion where the Titans and Tartarus are the good guys). I don't disagree, but just as a general idea and a starting point.

Also . First, >>44742198 → is probably a better place to ask.
Thanks just posted it there.
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>>44746091
Never. They aren't smart enough. Probably because they aren't jewish.
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>>44746088
You can't tame a zebra you shitlord.
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>>44746173
It wasn't even white people that tamed horses in the first place.
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>>44746215
Still you can't tame zebras and there are no horses in Africa.
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>>44746236
Not with that attitude you can't.
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Guys, remember all those threads with "modern" solutions hilariously misapplied to "dumb and primitive" fantasy settings (like making sword blades in a mold and other dumb shit like that)?

Why do i get the feeling OP of this thread is the same guy?
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>>44746091

IQ wise Jews tend to be smarter, this isn't a /pol/ argument, return to reddit

Jews developed IQs through eugenics to adapt to European societies, because they were forced into high IQ professions

despite this Jews have never created civilization or lived independently, they have always hung off the backs of gentiles like parasites and occasionally inject them with embarassments like Freud
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>>44746173
>You can't tame a zebra you shitlord.

It has been demonstrated that Zebras can be sufficiently broken in to ride them, Anon.
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>>44746299
This is some next level shitposting.
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>>44746173
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>>44746299
>tfw your parasite is smarter than you
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>>44746305
Hello Reddit!
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>>44746299
>despite this Jews have never created civilization or lived independently
There is a book you might be interested in, you prabobly never heard of it. it's called The Bible.
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>>44746236
>and there are no horses in Africa.

North Africa is a thing. Subsaharan Africa also has plenty of regions in which horses can survive.
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>>44746312
Nigga most of my family is Jewish, I'm just not stupid enough to believe we're naturally more intelligent than other people. I know first hand we're not. And also that that's not how genetics works.

Plus, many Jews did not live in Europe. Many Jews -- in fact, nearly all Ashkenazis (the most populous kind) -- lived in slums pursuing decidedly unintellectual work.
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>>44746173
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>>44746339

science says: you're wrong
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>>44746325
>>44746299
Yemen used to be a jewish kingdom.
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>>44746355
Science does not speak.
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>>44746339
>>44746355
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lsa_97KIlc

https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/the-bell-curve.pdf
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>>44746339
why are you replying to /pol/ poster. Jewgga, you dumb.
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>>44746299
Jews don't exist. Being jewish by now is more like being some kind of hereditary otherkin.
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>>44746357

Jewish ethnicity =/= bunch of Arabs just deciding one day to adopt religious Judaism
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>>44746367
>>44746339
>>44746359

http://therightstuff.biz/2015/09/02/race-and-iq-genes-that-predict-racial-intelligence-differences/
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>>44746390
As long as your mother was jewish you are jewish.
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>>44746367
>IQ, Race and Gender
>But not material conditions
>We can't let that effect our politics
>>44746388
Generally true, although it varies. To be honest, Jews have historically interbred with the native populations so much that their existence as anything other than hereditary otherkin is debatable.
>>44746390
Jewish ethnicity doesn't equal fucking anything.
>>44746407
That's only how it works culturally, or religiously. It's also generally agreed upon that it is whether your grandmother was Jewish that matters, rather than mother.
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>>44746339
this is also a strawman or just ignorance, in the presumption that ALL jews are smarter than all non-jews, just as there are lower iq whites with higher iq blacks, race and iq is a rule, a general consistent line with exceptions to the rule

you might be a stupid jew out of a population of smart jews, IQ is hereditary
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>>44746435
I'm arguing against the whole concept based on the fact that separate factions of humanity, let alone small factions within larger ones, cannot develop such drastic genetic differences.

Plus all the other factual inaccuracies in the post.
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let us all aknowledge that in 1st and 2nd world counties dumb people have more kids, while in 3rd world counties smart people will be able to support bigger families which mean in a few hundred years we might see more smart people in the current 3rd world counties
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>>44746414
stefan molyneux is a retard anarcho capitalist libertarian and murray is apolitical or plain conservative, politics doesn't enter into it - stefan molyneux in other videos provided with sources also has speakers who argue for environmentalism

nice try at an attempt to rationalize your close mindedness though
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>>44746457
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZPsXYo7gpc

your argument: factually incorrect and you: ignorant
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>>44746465
Nothing in your post actually contradicted the point.
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>>44746473
>maybe if I show another YouTube video they'll start sucking my dick!
Nigga you don't even want to get into how many videos there are proclaiming all negative traits belonging to black people are only a result of the white man keeping him down. And we both know those are bullshit.
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>>44746465
He also always promises things he knows he can't do with his new game.
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>>44746476
>trying to run away from digesting material that challenges your belief system with a cheap "durr he COULD be political"
>no argument in response to all the evidence in the links provided

lad...
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If race and environment don't matter how are Ethiopian Jews stupid, Askenazi Jews smart and Semitic Jews average?
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>>44746500
You might want to reread the post, anon.
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>>44746495

>i'm running facts and sources! i'm running you can't catch me!

here, the link were in the description:

http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstream.pdf
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>>44746506
>trying to run away from digesting material that challenges your belief system with a cheap "durr he COULD be political"
>no argument in response to all the evidence in the links provided

this is the content, i'm guessing you're just trolling now
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>>44746536
>Your argument is wrong because it does not account for another more important factor
Sounds like a decent argument to me, anon.
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>>44746495
>pfft you know some sources show things I don't like pfft we know that's bullshit AM I RIGHT OR RIGHT???
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>>44746549
No argument, then?
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>>44746544
you don't have an argument, and when presented with sources and evidence to contradict your scientifically inaccurate assertion that race and ethnicity has nothing to do with genetic differences which exist, you refuse to acknowledge them.
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>>44746559
I refuse to acknowledge them because they don't prove shit. They fail to account for material conditions and environment, rendering it null.
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>>44746577

you haven't watched the videos provided, and evidently you haven't read the sources either

here, i'll link them all for you again:
http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstream.pdf

https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/the-bell-curve.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZPsXYo7gpc [Embed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lsa_97KIlc [Embed]

http://therightstuff.biz/2015/09/02/race-and-iq-genes-that-predict-racial-intelligence-differences/
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>>44746577

>They fail to account for material conditions and environment, rendering it null.

literally addressed in all of em
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>>44746593
>>44746611
No, strangely, I have not been able to watch multiple half-hour to two hours long videos in the time we've had.
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>>44746625

get on it champ, should've been able to read the texts - good exercise in denialism/bias, hopefully you'll get past your ideological block and irrationalism. ill be back when you've finished
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>>44746593
I have some videos too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw
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>>44744131
He's not wrong in regards to humans, since our gene pool while diverse doesn't have any wild offshoots, but with fantasy you Do have those wild offshoots in the forms of other races.

That being said, considering for a moment why humans are more advanced than orcs in your setting might lead to interesting ideas (For instance in my own setting Orcs commonly continued to use curved blades do to their naval heritage and thus lack of strong metal armors to fight against with themselves and coastal villages, however while they are much worse at animal husbandry than humans they do have rather advanced naval building skills and navigation skills)
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>>44746010
Race doesn't mean shit except the entire physiology and psychology of a person and everything these components of a person influences I.e everything. You are either an idiot or a slimy Marxist.
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>>44748098
We are products of genetics and environment with the former having a much more profound impact and the latter. This is explained in Nicholas Wades book 'A troublesome inheritance'

These bigots wouldn't have read it though.
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Christ what is wrong with you people? When you're not being stupid you're being pricks.
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>>44748144
So here is the problem with this particular subject, and the reason why the debate around it is constantly and systematically twisted, fucked up and generally awful.

So: the whole issue lies in the inability of people to differenciate between descriptive and prescriptive function of anthropology. So basically: you have two sides of the debate:
One, that claims we are primarily product of our biological substrate, sum of mostly inherent qualities and that our biological nature primarily defines our human characteristics.
The other claims that we are primarily a product of environment, and our biological foundation is merely a absolute basis, the "tabula rasa" as somebody claimed.
This is commonly refered to as the nature vs. nurture debate.

Both are stupid.
Because there is no actual distinction between the two. The line does not exist. Nature and nurture and all their implications are heuristical tools that outlived their usefulness a while ago. Processes that form us are far more complex, the influence of genetically or environmentally induced traits are fuzzy and differ on case by case level: there is no unity or strict hierarchy or system to how individual people or groups are formed, and what principles play role in those.

Yet people are still obsessed with this debate, and are willing to turn into insane pricks to prove THEIR side of the two non-existent (objectively speaking) models is right.

Why?
Because they make the mistake of confusing description (of how we are formed) with prescription (of how we should behave). Not only that the whole nature vs. nurture model is wrong, but people who fight for either side are wrong even more profoundly: they believe that if either of the two models is "proven", that makes their future agendas or current value-models justified. Which itself is one gargantuan logical lapse. They NEED one model or the other validated, because that justifies their future-oriented agendas.
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Whites are evil HURR DURR the book
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