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Kings of War and other Mantic games
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Kings of War Thread, but feel free to talk about other Mantic games like Dungeon Saga or Dreadball.

Anyway, I'm putting together a Basilean army and I wanted to ask. What's better, a Dictator, an Abbess or a Priest with Bane Chant?
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>>44726906
Make sure to have one Standard for every 500 points, then I'd go with the priest.
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whose skellingstons are cheaper - Mantic's or Wargames Factory's? (cannot go to gaming sites from work)
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>>44726974
>Mantic's or Wargames Factory's?
If you are in the US probably WGF - but WGF are very long to build.
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>>44727016
eurofag here
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>>44727090
Customs will rape you, go for mantic except if your really want your skellies bare and 9-parts each.

WGFs are fun to build the shambling horde, or if you want to give an other theme however. I'll build mine to be ophidian-themed so I gave them curved swords.
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>>44727132
The two normal guys in the unit of skeletons is a nice touch
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>>44727386
They are WGF persians - I don't advise them in the slightest but they were on sale and I have way enough Perry bitz to replace the godawful arms they have.
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>>44726974
They're kind of comparable but Mantic's has more stuff. WGF are as plain and barren as they come.

I'd get both to mix.
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>>44726906
Why not make a fantasy wargames general for WHFB, KoW and others ?
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>>44727870
irreconcilable hostilities, I believe
KoW hates WHFB, WHFB is like "KoW? the ones that make skellingtons? they haz a game?", other fantasy wargames are jealous of bigger brothers, etc.
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>>44727900
>KoW hates WHFB
No, we hate Games Workshop. Most of KoW is current and ex-WHFB players

>WHFB is like "KoW?"
They know what it is. Any hostilities are trolls ("lol Mantic's earliest sculpts suck"), or just WHFB players not doing going through the 5 stages of grief.

I'd hardly say any of us are jealous, save for X game having more players than Y

>irreconcilable
No, smaller games just get drowned out. You couldn't hold a KoW discussion in a WHFB thread very well, it would get lost in the usual WHFB banter.

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON WITH MY WIRELESS CONNECTION
I ALREADY WASTED THE ENTIRE WEEKEND GETTING IT WORKING AGAIN
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>>44728003
>You couldn't hold a KoW discussion in a WHFB thread very well
Dunno man, it seems that both are equally active, and at least there would be the minis in common.
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Hey guys, I was thinking of picking up the Abyssal Dwarfs Mega Army when my next paycheck comes in.

I'm mainly planning to use it as a cheaper alternative for the AoS Legion of Azgorh / Chaos Dwarves, but since i'm spending a lot on them I might as well dive into KoW too and give that a go.

How are the Abyssal Dwarves balance wise in KoW? Does the mega army miss out on any key units, or include units that are worthless?

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/abyssal-dwarfs/product/abyssal-dwarf-mega-army.html

Cheers
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>>44728089
>tfw want to make an abyssal dwarf "soviet" army and a dwarf "imperial russia" army but have already too many minis to glue and paint
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>>44728089
No units are worthless per se in KoW. Balance is good. The mega army lacks a little bit in basic infantry but makes up for it with large infantry. AD shooting units are short-ranged killers and are supposed to go in hot. Also you'll probably lack one overmaster with inspiring.
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>>44728180
Thanks, and how are metal minis? I've never painted any before, but should I be ok if I just assemble and paint them the same way I do plastics?
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>>44728205
I don't know if there is any metal mini that needs assembly in that army but if there was you'd need to pin the arms or they would fall all the time.

For painting, it's the same. Use varnish after painting to be sure the paint doesn't chip.
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>>44728089
>How are the Abyssal Dwarves balance wise in KoW?

Key things I note about them, though I haven't seen them played yet:
Good elite infantry, but cheap infantry (Orc slaves) are irregular (don't unlock), so can't run horde lists very well
No long range units that aren't war machines, but good breath attack units.
Good mix of low/high damage war machines
Weak but cheap flying unit
Medium to heavy but no light cavalry
Good damage already, but high CS options include both De6/shambling and cavalry.
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>>44727900
>hostilities

The only hostility I have seen to KoW lately is from AoS players.
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>>44728302
Looking at each model, seems like the only metal parts are the entire AD King, the artillery not including the crew, and a selection of musical equipment and random weapons.

That shouldn't be too much of a problem.
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Having fun putting together their undead. The skeletons are a good value, but some are limited to the point where you are guaranteed to get identical twins with every regiment. The zombies are better in that aspect as they are all posable. They don't carry handweapons like their GW equivalents, making them more adaptable for other games. However the joints between the torsos and the legs are awful, I get the desire for posability but I would much rather have the bottom and top snap together than have to use so much putty.

Hopefully KoW's campaign rules are good. Would love to see KoW skirmish sometime down the line.
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I'm pretty sure I want to jump into this and play some Dwarfs. Who out there makes good models? Please don't say mantic, their dorfs are terrible.

I really like Scribor but they're kind of pricey and don't really have a basic troop.

AvAtars of War is also really good but kind of has the same problem.

Does GW make the best basic troops? I kind of wanted to avoid buying their stuff if possible.
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>>44729473
Bumping with some cool dwarfs
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>>44729691
>>44729473
Also, Kings of War has a Dwarf unit that is essentially spearmen. I have never seen anyone produce Dwarf models with spears before. Any suggestions on what could be used? I just want to build a cool Dwarf army
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>>44728003
A famtasy games general could be cool, I like to post minis from different games and hearing about others systems.
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>>44729691
I really love Momminiaturas, and they are great value those guys are 10 euros and the basic unit is 20 dorfs for 20 euros.
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>>44729715
>>44729691
>>44729473
These guys are freaking awesome. I think I want to just build a Berserker army. That seems good, right? What's the KoW equivalent of a Slayer?

>>44729805
Those are cool. Is there an easy way to get them in the states?
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>>44729845
>In the estates.
No idea.
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What's your skirmishing game of choice KoW? Mine is Song of blades and heroes.
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http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=9

what is the general opinion of these? i like them quite a lot(the hawk is dumb)
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>>44730507
I am just playing around with Frostgrave right now. The skeleton hounds that come with Mantic's skeleton regiments make great war hounds.
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>>44729845
>What's the KoW equivalent of a Slayer?
Anyone know the answer to this?
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>>44732131
Dwarf (or AD) Berserker.
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>>44732657
Could you build an army that's mostly Berserkers or is that a bad idea?
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>>44732997
It would be lightly armoured, but extremely hard-hitting and unwavering to boot. There is a berserker infantry unit, a berserker brock cavalry unit, a berserker king that can be mounted or not and a berserker unique hero on large cavalry as choices.
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>>44733116
What would you say is a good point size to start out with? I was thinking a 1000 points but I have no idea what I'm doing
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>>44733381
1000 points is a good force you can have fun with already. Don't forget to take one inspiring guy every 500 points.
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>>44733425
That would be like a banner or a something like that right? I was thinking one of those and Berserker Lord
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>>44733661
The banner is inspiring, but the berserker lords are too. Take what fits your army better.
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>>44730507
Twelve Elements of War is pretty cool.
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>>44733741
Alright, I'll figure this out. I suppose I should start by reading the rules.
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Am I the only one who is unimpressed by Mantic making a Walking Dead game?
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>>44734246

Basically banners are your cheapest option for inspiring and that's all they are good for, berserker lords cost more but can at least cause some damage if you need them too, even if it's just to other characters rather than units.
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I watched a video the other day where some people were arguing that Scrying Gem is a must-take. It seems pretty damn powerful, and it's felt very handy in the two games I've taken it in, but it's so hard to quantify if it's worth the points or not. Anyone else have opinions about this?
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>>44734894

It seems to me that it depends who you are against. Against an elite army that doesn't have that many units, like a Sons of Korgan heavy Varangur list, it's pretty powerful but against Ratkin or Goblins or any other list with loads of massive shit units pretty much all it's going to achieve is making deployment quicker.
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>>44734767
Is there a basic requirements for army construction?

Like do you need a certain amount to of one troop type, a Lord, etc etc or can you just build an army out of whatever you want?
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>>44735082
It still burns through their chaff quicker, getting to the important stuff sooner.

>>44735137
For each regiment (20)or horde (40) you can have a certain amount of troops (10-man units), heroes or warmachines.
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>>44735137

Basically army construction is based on the size of the units you take.

Every Regiment you buy lets you buy up to 2 Troops AND one Hero OR one Monster OR one War Machine.

Every Horde or Legion you buy lets you buy up to 4 Troops AND one Hero AND one Monster AND one War Machine.

Certain units don't count for the purposes of army building, for example Abysal Dwarves can take hordes of slave Orcs but these Orcs don't unlock anything.
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>>44735212

I'm not saying it's not an advantage, just that it's situational how good it is.

In my mind to be an auto include it needs to be universally great against everything.

Plus it's a dice roll so you might roll a 1 or a 2 and then it's only one more unit deployed than normal.
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>>44731389
Too much horns for mu liking but those guys show promise, lets see if they can make good kits in they kickstarter.
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>>44736263

The CAD images look good but they usually do, something almost always ends up being lost in the final product.

Like Wargames Factory stuff.
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>>44735421
>>44735212
So how many troops can you take to start?
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>>44736468

None, you have to take regiments/hordes first.

Don't think of troops as in troops in 40K a troop is a unit size not a type.

Certain units are only available as troops or are more desirable as troops so in order to take them you need to take a horde or a regiment of something else first.
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>>44726906

>own beastmen
>gf plays vampire counts
>wants Lizardmen and wood elves
>want to start a dwarf and human army /w perry miniatures
>also want more chaos warriors and daemons, already have some but not enough for army

Can all of these be represented in KoW? I'm a pack rat about minis I buy but I haven't found a use for ours besides occasional d&d sessions.
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>>44736468
>>44736652

As an example, in the Varangur list Tundra Wolves, a pretty nippy little chaff unit, are only available as troops so in order to buy them you need to include a regiment or a horde of something else (and you could never have an army purely of wolves).

Also different units scale differently, an example from the same army:

Sons of Korgan can be bought as a troop or a regiment, the regiment has 5 more attacks and 4 more nerve than the troop but costs 100pts more so it's debatable if this is the best investment of points especially when you consider Bloodsworn.

Bloodsworn are available as troops, regiments and hordes. A troop has 10 attacks and 13 nerve, a regiment has 12 and 17 while a horde has a whopping 25 and 24. The horde only costs 130pts more than the troop and has almost 3 times as many attacks and almost double the nerve.

It arguably a much more sound investment of your 100-ish points especially when you consider the other units you can "unlock" by purchasing the Bloodsworn horde.

It of course depends on your list and how you play as to what you feel it's worth spending points on and the actual physical footprint of a unit on the board is also a factor as being smaller kind of makes you more maneuverable and more likely to get a flank charge.
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>>44737123
All of these can be represented in KoW.
>herd
>undead
>salamanders/forces of nature
>dwarves with human allies
>abyssals and I can't remember their names barbarians
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>>44737123

Between the core book and the Uncharted Empires expansion all those are covered.
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>>44737123
Beastmen can be represented via the Herd army, there are two kinds of undead lists in KoW. The elven list is made to represent more or less any traditional elf army, be it desert, wood, high, coastal or dragon themed.

There are several human factions, including Basileans, Byzantine elite paladins that fight for good.

The brotherhood, a holy order of knight templars that fight demons using holy and water magic and get their own little gimmick of all knight characters granting morality buffs to nearby peasants.

The League of Rhordia is a human and halfling faction similar to warhammers empire.

The Varangur is a human faction of northern barbarians blessed by elder gods, this is your Chaos warrior stand in, even though they got lots of cool things that could be seen as more Viking or even lovecraftian instead of demonic, they also got mark of the gods type rules for some added depth and flavour.

The kingdoms of Men is supposed to be able to represent next to any generic human kingdom or empire, from ancient to renaissance, from ancient Egypt to vikings to Ming dynasty China.

As for Dwarves they can always ally with neutral or good races wich includes all humans except Varangur. Daemons can be represented in either forces of the abyss, classical biblical/fantasy demons or in the nightstalker army for some more wierd, spooky and warp fuckery ideas.

Pardon my English, it's not my native tounge but I hope this helps, please ask me if there is anything else you'd want to know, I'd be happy to try and help.
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>>44737123
Beastmen could be use 'The Herd' from the new rules expansion book, 'Uncharted Empires.'
Vampire counts would be 'Undead'
Lizardmen would be 'Salamanders' from Uncharted Empires.
Wood Elves would be normal 'Elves.' (Elves in KoW are a combination of wood elves and high elves.) Possibly ally with 'Forces of Nature' for more nature themed units like Elementals and giant Beasts of Nature
Dwarfs are just 'Dwarfs.'
There's a few options for humans. There's the 'Kingdoms of Man', a sort of jack of all trades army with stuff like pikemen, shieldwalls, chariots, muskets, bowmen, beasts of war. Basically, you could make whatever historical human army you wanted using this list. Then there's the 'Forces of Basilea,' which has a bigger focus on paladins, warrior nuns and angels. Finally there's the new 'League of Rhordia' from uncharted empires, which is a lot like the empire, only with a lot more halfling units.
As for Chaos Warriors and Daemons, the Chaos Warriors could be used as 'Varangur' from uncharted empires while Daemons could used as the 'Forces of the Abyss.'
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anyone with pics of WIP Nightmare armies? I'd like to see what others are using for for scarecrows, nightmares, butchers and phantoms. I've got all my monsters complete and found great bones models for them.
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>>44738097

Most I've seen so far are pretty rubbish unfortunately.
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I want to play herd. Is there any options of plastics Beastmen beyond GW? I see Wargames Foundry has metal Beastmen.
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>>44739234
None yet, but I've seen people use Reaper Bones figures to make up their herd units.
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>>44739234
Herd isn't strictly beastmen either- satyrs, centaurs, forest sprits, that sort of thing.
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>>44736652
>>44737391
Ok, I see what you mean now. I was thinking troops = infantry. Troops are a unit size, got it.

For example I want to build an army of Berserkers for dumb reason. To do that I would have to take a regiment (20 badass dudes) before I can take anything else like a hero or a troop.

Thanks guys
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So do individual models just hang out by themselves or are they able to attach to units? Thinking about lords and characters
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>>44742821
Individual units are by themselves and do not join units. You'll have your characters moving separately from the unit.
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>>44743450
Doesn't that leave them super vulnerable to getting shot off the table?
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>>44743538
It does, but it also means that your opponent has to target heroes. Also remember if your hero is the same height as your other unit you can hide behind it and they can only hit your hero with indirect firing. A lot of people hide their standard bearers, for example, behind blocks of troops to stave off a lot of potential attacks.
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>>44736421
What's the problem with wargames factory? I never had a mini from them but they looked pretty rad.
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>>44743538
>>44742821
Actually I think you'll find individuals being separate adds quite a lot to the game. Their movement and flanking rules are different, and this can be very significant in the course of the game as opposed to just being attached to units.
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So my LGS has multiple boxes of 40 [email protected] collecting dust since the kickstarter. I kind of want to do some conversions. Any ideas? The arms and head are separate, and the torso/legs are easily divided. The torso is a bit taller than normal, and the arms are a bit more brutish than normal. The heads aren't terrible if you give them all mustaches. This is all readily fixable with a couple minutes effort per mini, but I kind of want to "recycle" them.

I'm thinking:
>Undead: skeletons/ghouls/zombies/vampires
>Mix with other humans for mixed heights
>Imperial Guard detachment (picture)

Any other ideas?
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>>44735137
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>>44745213
Well I've replaced the [email protected]' heads with heads from victrix's highlanders. They look pretty decent.
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>>44745311
pics of conversion?
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>>44743538
>>44742821
Think of characters like normal units with a smaller footprint. They often have special rules like inspiring and anything smaller than a monster can't get flanking bonuses. Except against warmachines, fuck warmachines.
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>>44745320
Here some WIPs. Not paint yet.

Pictures a bit blurry because I had to use my camera phone
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Do you guys think a Dogs of War style army would look too visually variable?

For the start I was thinking Perry foot knights to represent the mercenary captains own guys, some Gripping Beast Arabs and Vikings for some footsoldiers/archers, maybe some horse archers and GW Ogres.
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>>44745576
>Do you guys think a Dogs of War style army would look too visually variable?
It would be variable but as long as you have at least one recurring theme (say, one banner and a colour) it's all good.
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>>44728541
>no light cavalry

Slave orc gore riders.

Also, It's worth noting that most of their infantry are slow and have a good Def.
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>>44738097
One of the guys from Master Crafter has a really nice Night Stalker army, using minis primarily from the Dark Eldar in 40K

https://youtu.be/sN6ZdCQft1w
Skip to 2:12.
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>>44745026

They're ok but often end up just looking "off", it's hard to actually describe.
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>>44745026
>>44746946
Eh, I wouldn't say they look off, but you do kinda have tousle a bit of planning to get really good poses out of them.

I used Wargames Factory Vikings to make my warband for SAGA, and they came out looking pretty good.
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>>44747136
>tousle

*to use.

Stupid autocorrect...
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>>44745301
So you can have as many heroes as you do regiments. That seems strange but ok.
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Is there a place to download the full rule book or at least the army list for Dorfs? I can only find the free ones and they're missing most of the army options
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>>44748049
I have never seen a list where someone actually did that. In practice you want to use those war engine/monster slots too. One inspiring hero per 500-750 points plus appropriate support is what you usually see.
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Bumping again with cool Dwarf models.
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>>44748934
I really dig Scibor minis, they do amazing work. Does anyone know a good place stateside to buy them? I want to get some of their stuff if possible
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>>44740809
It really should be Troupe. But oh well.
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>>44749553

Given that we aren't talking about singers, dancers or other entertainers it really shouldn't.

Troop is a military term, troupe is not.
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>>44748091
Damn, this guy screams to be a Brotherhood character.
What do you guys thinks than Mantica needs to be a good world? As for now I think it's souless, very kitchen sink, but with the right polish it could became a good one.
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>>44748091
There was an undead list that won a tournament that did exactly that. Undead's Pharaohs and
Vampires on Dragons are beastly, and weirdly it had 3 Lycanis and no werewolves.
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>>44748934
>>44748959

I got a few Scibor dwarfs a couple of years ago, those Moscal dwarfs or whatever they called them. Very impressive sculpts with a high degree of detail.
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>>44748959
Can't you just order online?

I don't know of any american distributor.

But damn, Bear cavalry.
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I'm kinda divided between KoM Spear block, Pike block and Heavy Pike block.

Heavy pike is 45 points more expensive than the Spears at a reg level but got ensnare and elite and one additional point of morale. Pike is 30 points less than heavy pike but got -1De and no elite.
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So after looking at the book, with little to no knowledge how the game works, this is my first list for the Dwarf Berserker army I keep talking about.

Berserker Regiment - 180
Berserker Regiment - 180
Berserker Troop - 125
Berserker Lord - 120
Berserker Lord - 120

725/750

I also have no idea how you guys format lists, sorry about that.
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>>44758388
You can always proxy until you decide, but I like spears for how cheap they are.
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>>44759258
You can add a little magical item if you want.

>>44759305
I'll likely do the three options anyway. The warlord landsknetch are way too good for me to pass.
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>>44759334
>You can add a little magical item if you want.
I missed that section, thanks
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>>44759258

I probably wouldn't have two characters in 750pts, but it isn't exactly wrong either. Your formatting is fine.

Give it a go, anon. Looks like good fun to play.

The problem is that like most gimmick-heavy armies I think you will get punished by counters, which in this case will be hammer units with Move 6 or better (most armies have something that does this) or anvils with defense 6 and a bunch of nerve like greater earth elementals. But I'm not sure, I've never seen an army with so much punch-per-point on the table as yours actually played.

If you give one of your berserker units Brew of Strength for 30 points, or give a Lord Blade of the Beast Slayer for 20, it will be much easier to handle a Def6 unit.
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>>44759429
>>44759334
So is building an army of Berserkers a terrible idea? I know I'm missing out on the excellent guns and screening troops
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>>44759518
No It should be extra fun to play. Maybe you can replace the troop and a lord by two berserker brock rider troops.

I know you want badger-riding berserker.
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>>44759518
>So is building an army of Berserkers a terrible idea?

Only if you hate having fun.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it at 750 points.
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>>44759585
I would go for bears like these guys >>44748959
But yes, yes I do
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>>44759518

It's not the best idea but it'll be playable.

May I ask why you want all berserkers though?
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Does KoW have a Dogs of War type army? Because having Pikemen, Dwarf artillery and Ogres in the same list is fun as hell.
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>>44759655
Your army is perfect as it is - extremely hard hitting. Riders would make a good flanking unit but ultimately it's up to you.
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>>44759656
I like the lore and models of GWs Dwarf Slayers from before Warhammer died. Its mostly just an excuse to play a new game and paint a bunch of these guys >>44729845

Dumb, I know, but they're really cool models and I'm a little burnt on painting Warmahordes stuff right now.
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>>44759845
pls halp
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>>44759845

Not really, at least not yet.

Just the regular ally rules.
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>>44760012
>at least not yet
Are they gonna got a armybook?. Could Kingdoms of Men work as an all-human mercenary band in the meantime?
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>>44760059
>Could Kingdoms of Men work as an all-human mercenary band in the meantime?
Yes definitely. And since warmachine crewmen are purely decorative, you can even have them dwarves if you want.

If you want to add dwarves or ogres, you can use the ally rules, of course.
>>
>>44760129
Does it use an allies matrix, like 40k? Or can anybody ally with anybody?
>>
>>44760149

Each army has an alignment, good, evil or neutral.

Good can ally with good and neutral, evil with evil and neutral, and neutral with everyone.

You can only take allies from one list though so a human army would have to choose between ogres or dwarfs, it couldn't have both.
>>
>>44760149
Neutral can ally with good or evil, good can ally with neutral and evil can ally with neutral.
>>
One thing you can do to at least visually have your cake and eat it is proxy stuff as something else.

The rules in KoW are intentionally abstract to allow this kind of army building/customisation.

Let's say you play a league of Rhordia army with Ogre allies there is nothing to stop you modeling the crews for your war machines as dwarfs, or having a unit of dwarf handgunners in place of a Musket block, you could even have fully mixed mercenary units with dwarfs and humans fighting alongside each other.

As long as your opponent knows what they are and it's reasonably consistent it'll be fine.
>>
What do you guys use for movement trays? I play a lot of skirmish games and this whole infantry block thing is a foreign concept.

I've seen people with plastic ones, ones made of lego, cut from cardboard boxes, I even have a friend who lazer cuts his out of wood. What are you supposed to use?
>>
>>44760416
My old WHFB units are magnetized and I use metal sheet as trays.

My new units are either on multibases or on hard cardboard 100*80 bases.
>>
What's Mantic's official rules when it comes to models, for tournaments at least?

Does it have to be Mantic stuff, or could I show up with an army made out of Perry and a smattering of GW?
>>
>>44760552
Doesn't matter at all as long as it's obvious what represents what.
>>
>>44760416

You can use whatever as long as the footprint is the right size, individually based in a tray, multibase, whatever.

Personally I use laser cut bases from war-bases.co.uk
>>
>>44760471
I've also seen some guys at shops with empty trays and no models. Is that common? I understand proxies but these guys had fully painted armies that they just left in their bags
>>
>>44760416
I use a bunch of 3D printed movement trays, all dolled up with texture paint to match the bases of the troops themselves. I am going to order some washers and rare earth magnets to hold these guys in place later on.
>>
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>>44760569
>>
>>44760572
>>44760569
Multibase?

Sorry, not new war games but I'm new to this whole block infantry thing
>>
>>44760576
I played my first couple of games with cardboard rectangles and a name scribbled on them. Painted armies are great, but if all you want to do is try out the system, it works exactly the same.
>>
>>44760552

Again you can use whatever, you need to at least follow the 60% rule (the unit needs to have at least 60% of the models it's supposed to have) but that's pretty much it.

>>44760576

To maintain my faith in humanity I'd assume that they were just testing lists or something. That's the only time I've seen people just use cut outs.
>>
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>>44760552
>Does it have to be Mantic stuff, or could I show up with an army made out of Perry and a smattering of GW?
They don't give a fuck.
>>
>>44760552
Anything is fine within reason. They have rules for models they don't sell, have pictures of other companies models in their rulebook, sell other companies models on their website, and use other companies models on their demo tables occasionally. So about the same standard that Flames of War has, where you don't need a single model that is made by them to play in a tourney.
>>
>>44760576
For tournaments, it's disallowed. For testing, I do it too.
>>
>>44760610

One big base with all the minis stuck on it.
>>
>>44728003

>Any hostilities are trolls ("lol Mantic's earliest sculpts suck")

Im sorry do you think mantics KoW dwarves are good or something?

I like doorfs, and if mantic made some that dident look like ass i would play them.

But their current selection looks like 80's GW.

GW's dwarves on the other hand would require me to sell my arm, leg, firstborn son and soul to build an army with.

For fucks sake cant the perry bros just make some dwarves already?
>>
>>44760679
I find Mantic's take on third parties pretty healthy to be honest.

>>44760747
Avatar of war. Hell, even Scibor is cheaper than GW now.
>>
>>44760747
You can always use dwarves from MoM Miniatures or Avatars of war. Cheaper than GW while still looking nice. Or you can join the Chinaman master race and build a GW dwarf army.
>>
>>44760747

Buy the AoW Dwarves or just use GW Dwarves from the based chinaman.
>>
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I tried KoW for the first time the other day and it was fun! I had a few questions, mostly is the herd any good andvwhere can I find the rules for them?
>>
>>44760786
>Cheaper than GW while still looking nice
While looking better you mean. God, that last batch is fucking hideous.
>>
So in KoW i know the footprint is all that really matters.

But how do they go about having it killed or wittled down?

Comming from a 40k view point would a unit of 30 human pikemen be a model with "30 wounds and 30 attacks" and it functions at full effect? or would it loose at attack for every wound?
>>
>>44760786
>>44760800

Wait. I know chinaman did the chaos dwarf stuff but now he dose regular stock plastic dwarves too?
>>
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>>44760855
The rules for The Herd are on the Mantic website and in the Uncharted Empires book. They can ignore difficult terrain which is nice, but I hate how they have no good ranged options. Same with the Abyssals, no artillery options.

Off topic, but are those rock pillars hand made? If so how did you make them?
>>
>>44760800
>GW Dwarves from the based chinaman.
Wait, this is a thing?
>>
>>44760890
It depends on which Chinaman, but Zanchui has the troops of regular dwarves. You can also buy the starter set GW Dwarves which are somewhat plentiful on Ebay.
>>
>>44760866

One more thing...

I have a massive collection of gw's LOTR line. how hard would it be to go about making a KoW army out of uruk hai? Gondor? Rohan? Shire? ect ect.

I can see mixing and matching the Forces of good with other good armies and likewise with evil. but would want to avoid having gondor fight along side uruk hai in the same army.
>>
>>44760945

Lot of people play KoW with LOTR minis.
>>
>>44760939
Is it rude to ask for a link to such places?
>>
>>44760965
The latest catalog/contact info should be stickied on Reddit in the Yoyhammer board

I have been painting up some of his Bloodletters, and they look identical to the real deal. Have fun with it.
>>
>>44760965

Dunno, not sure if it's bannable. Just google yoyhammer and it'll link you to the subreddit which has all the info you need.

inb4:

>reddit
>>
>>44760939
Wait, Z does Dwarf Warriors? Since when?
>>
>>44760945
Not hard, the Kingdoms of Men army encompass all of those except the Uruks easily. The Uruks might work as varangur, but Orcs in KoW are closer to the huge green orcs in WHFB than the LotR ones.
>>
>>44760993
>>44760992
Whatever, reddit is just as dumb as 4chan. Thanks for the help
>>
>>44760917

Not that poster but the rock pillers look like hunks of insulation foam cut with a hot wire knife.

Example

http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=109495
>>
>>44760866

Basically units in KoW have a stat called nerve that's two number. the first is it's wavering limit the second is it's routing limit.

Whenever it takes damage you roll 2D6 and add the damage it's accumulated. If you hit the wavering limit that unit is a bit panicky and can't charge or shoot. Hit the second number and it's been destroyed or has fled. Hit neither and nothing happens.

Double 1 is always a pass and double 6 is always wavering.

Other than that yeah units kind of just act like one big model when compared to warhammer.
>>
>>44760855
>rules for the herd
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/meedbza42sp4m/Kings_of_War

>>44760866
Your 20 dudes have a set morale at game start (say 13/15). Everytime you take casualties you do a morale test adding your total casualties and if you fail the unit is shaken (if you are over the first number) or removed (if you are above the second).
>>
>>44760964
>>44761013

Is there a lot of options for guns or arty in KoW though?

I have some gondorian trebs and bolt throwers. but of course there is no gunpowder units.

Can one be competitive while using only LOTR minis for an army?

I dont need a WAAC tournyfag army but i dont really enjoy getting smacked around all the time.
>>
>>44760917
I couldnt find a free version.

They are hand made, not by me. Its foam discs stacked on each other then glued together with like a skewer in the middle.
>>
>>44761115
>>44761151
Never mind, ty
>>
>>44761136

Just use the treb as a mortar and the bolt thrower as a volley gun. Problem solved.

KoW is pretty fast and loose, as long as people know what the thing is it's fine.
>>
>>44761136
>Is there a lot of options for guns or arty in KoW though?
KoM have bolt throwers, cannons and trebs.

For infantry, they got bows, crossbows and handguns.

KoW isn't unbalanced to the point of making your armies unviables if you don't take X, except if X is "inspiring hero"
>>
>>44761136
Yeah, catapults and ballistas both have rules in the Kingdoms of Men list. Check out the rules yourself, there are a decent amount of options.
>>
I was looking into Kings of War because I miss my Empire army so much, but I'm a little miffed/confused. For one, I'm not sure whether armies with no Hordes are viable, but of my ~2000 point (7th Ed) Empire army no single unit is very large. In KoW it seems to convert to about 1250 for Kingdoms of Men using the free rules. I'm not exactly in it now to pick up the hobby, as I spent a lot of man hours painting this army already and don't relish doing Averland's yellow/black ever again. Basically, I wanted to know if this seems like the basis for an okay army or not:

20 State Troops=Foot Guard Regiment
20 Greatswords=Foot Guard Regiment sans shields
20 Halberdiers=Pole-Arms Block Regiment
10 Huntsmen=Bowmen Troop
20 Handgunners=Arquebusiers Regiment
8 Empire Knights=Knight Regiment
5 Pistoliers=Mounted Scouts Troop
Cannon=Cannon
Helstorm Volleygun/Rockets=Siege Artillery
General=General
Wizardx2=Wizardx2

The knights are bumped up to Regiment with filler because otherwise I have too many troops/chars per regiment, I guess. Is this a playable list? Does having no hordes or lots of troops really hurt lasting power because of how Nerve works? I'd love some input, so thank you fa/tg/uys for being fat with the knowledge of wargaming. Picture not mine, but still awesome.
>>
>>44761343
Regiments are usually preferable to hordes because of the smaller footprint, so it doesn't hurts your list in the slightest.

>Is this a playable list?
You lack at least one standard bearer or an additional general or a wizard with that item giving him inspiring.

I also doubt the handgunner reg is needed other than to allow you to recruit more heroes. But that's me.
>>
>>44761343
It's not bad, but hordes can certainly eat a lot of hits. That list is perfectly playable You might want to increase the point total to about 1500 later on, which doesn't neccesarily require getting another block of troops.
>>
>Slave orc gore riders
Those are medium
They're not Nimble
>>
>>44761343
>>44761546
Also I usually play my Helstorm as ballistas. Take that as you will
>>
>>44760855
>andvwhere can I find the rules for them?
That book there on the right of the picture
>>
>>44761632
The Herd is in Uncharted Empires.
>>
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>>44760747
>Im sorry do you think mantics KoW dwarves are good or something?

Yes

They're not that bad and they did an aesthetic nobody else did.
>>
>>44761672
I meant left damnit
>>
>>44761546
I am only using the free rules as a 'ballpark', I'm sure with magic items this would hit 1500pts, but I'm also not sure if 2K is still the standard. It was when I last played Warhammer, but that was 7th Ed. I haven't a clue what things are like right now. I do have a BSB that I could use, but I honestly made him as a showpiece.

Out of curiosity, is there a particular reason to nix the Arquebusiers? Are they just not very good? Aside from the cannons, I don't have much shooting. This was always certainly more of a sedentary army, so I likes my shooting.

>>44761628
I take it a Ballista has more universal usefulness than Siege Artillery? I don't have the rules up now, but I just like trying to keep like to like. I'm also aware those Halberdiers are more likely to become a Pike Block or Spear Phalanx or something. Previously they were two 10 man detachments for those sweet, sweet flanks. I'm going to miss Empire rules...
>>
>>44761681

If

>Ugly as shit

Is what you look for in a mini by all means go for it.
>>
>>44762806
Not him, but people have different tastes man. No need to be a dick
>>
>>44762806
>90's GW is now "BAD" objectively
OK
>>
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>>44762905
>>44762969

Dont get me wrong here. I will always have a warm and fuzzy for that nostilga feel they give.

But... Yes. a lot of the old gw minis are "bad".

back in my younger days i thought they were cool. And somewhere in a case i have a RT era army for 40k. They will always have a special place in my heart but they do not get much tourney table time.
>>
>>44763260
Yeah... That's pretty bad. Mantic is arguably better than that. Arguably
>>
>>44759258
So I went over the rules a bit more and I think I might try this for my first army

Ironclad Horde - 180
Berserker Regiment - 180
Berserker Troop - 125
Berserker Troop - 125
Berserker Lord - 120
Blade of the Beast Slayer/Inspiring Talisman - 20

Would this be a good way to start my army idea?
>>
>>44764649

Looks good, do it.

If it turns out that you don't like such a berserker-central list after a few games, they will still be very useful in a more rounded combined-arms dwarf list when you grow your force.
>>
>>44765005
I guess Berserkers could totally suck...
>>
>>44765155

Sounds like you are still on the fence.

Do you have any reasons that you wouldn't want to play the berserker list?
>>
>>44765232
>>44764649
Troops are a bit flimsy for nerve
Berserkers are a bit flimsy for defense
You don't have a lot to screen them either

I can see shooting wiping out a good chunk before you can close the gap
>>
>>44763260
>Pic
Hardly.
Mantic's are on par with the old Skull Pass dwarfs for overall quality.
>>
Is there any lore to talk about? Or is that a weaker point for the game?
>>
>>44765333
They built the game before the lore, more or less. We'll start seeing more lore as it goes.
>>
>>44765232
>Sounds like you are still on the fence.
Not really. I've bought a bunch of stuff I want to paint and build. I'm just trying to figure out a good list to learn with that fits the theme in going for
>>
>>44765333
Definitely lacking at this point. There are a few bits here and there that have potential, but much of what is there at the moment isn't very interesting.

Ogres for example.
>Nomads in the harsh north who venture south to prove themselves as a rite of passage.
>Reasonably intelligent, great storytellers, and terribly fearsome warriors.
>View the politics of the of the nations of the world as petty squabbles, try not to get involved. Have no grudges or prejudices.
>A tradition-loving people who have no real history, but pass down stories of great ogre heroes.

None of that is bad per se, but it doesn't grab your attention. We need some conflict to keep things interesting. Give us ogre tribes who are zealots with clashing religious views to those around them. Maybe make them all subscribe to a philosophy of height-makes-right, so the 'right' to live in an area comes from controlling a mountain which gives you all you can see from its peak as your stomping ground, and the tallest mountains are hotly contested. Maybe bringing back war trophies are part of ogre mating rituals, with the males with the best loot getting the hottest she-ogres, ensuring that every able-bodied male participates.
>>
>>44765333
Many of the armies are very much 'your dudes'. I like that, but your opinion might differ.
There's a book about narrative campaigns coming soon that might go into the lore a bit more.
>>
>>44765445
Warhammer was kinda built the other way around and to include all the minis they had produced. It originally even had a DM.
>>
>>44759845

League of Rhordia. It has a "dogs of war" pikemen,halfling organ guns(just model it as a dwarven one as they are identical rule wise) and you can ally in a unit of ogres. You won't have dwarven infantry but you would have everything you requested.
>>
>>44762185
>I take it a Ballista has more universal usefulness than Siege Artillery?
No, they are in the same category but the ballista is 1/3 cheaper.

Old resources link :
The Game of Fantasy Battles.

Latest Rules: https://d.maxfile.ro/sawjxaourj.pdf

Core Lists: https://d.maxfile.ro/cxozpswony.pdf
https://d.maxfile.ro/kkqpoqjqhm.pdf
https://d.maxfile.ro/zmbvtxoygg.pdf

Additional Lists: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=644257362

Faction Rundown: http://pastebin.com/4usF1pLr

Twilight Kin for posterity: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nhZLDFOHUXC2MCA6NwYQWr0HF2mSyvEWIlNH4oCtBeQ/htmlview#

Ratkin list: http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/File/KINGS%20OF%20WAR/ratkin.pdf

/tg/ Made Homebrew Content: http://pastebin.com/nxRhWT5R

Mediafire archive: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/meedbza42sp4m/Kings_of_War
>>
About the only bit of fluff I like so far is Korgan.

Korgan is basically an ancient evil god who was dying because he had no followers. He was rediscovered by the Varangur, a race of savage north men. To let the other gods and mortals know that he was back in business Korgan decided he needed to have his followers do something bold and let everyone know they did it for Korgan.

Now at this point it's worth keeping in mind that one of the factions in KoW are The Basileans who are literally a nation of paladins who live and fight alongside angels. They are a shining beacon of order and faith in a world largely gone to shit.

Korgan sent his followers to attack, what is for all intents and purposes, hell. He sent his followers to the abyss and had them kick the fuck out of demons and lost souls before marching them back home.

I kind of love that. It has a kind of prison logic to it. Don't pick a fight with the warden or his guards, pick a fight with the biggest bad you can find. That's how people know you mean business.
>>
>>44769119
I love how Korgan is the ultimate Neckbeard, he hates everyone too. Also it open the doors to other gods apart of the Abyssals/Celestials.
>>
>>44761681
You're not alone anon. I love them.
>>44762806
Slurping gw's love juice constantly.
>>
>>44769576

The only thing I don't like about the Mantic dwarfs are the beards. I wish they were fuller like GW's.

Other than that they're pretty neat, kind of retro but neat.
>>
>>44769658
It's a nice change from nordic/celtic dwarves. They look much more industrial.
>>
>>44769119
>Who are you?
>I am Korgan, your new god. My first decree is that you must go and ransack Hell.
Sounds awesome.

I really need to get my hands on Uncharted Empires.
>>
>>44769119
Well, it's a smart move to pick a fight with the guys everyone already hates.
>>
What kind of models would you suggest for the Dorf Badger cavalry? Mantics models are all right but I'm wondering if there are any decent alternatives for Dorf cavalry.

They don't have to be ridding badgers.
>>
>>44771244
Since it's all a matter of footprint, buy a couple of stampeeding bulls/buffallos from an historical supplier and convert regular beserkers hanging on to them (2 or three for each animal).
>>
>>44771349
Hope good are the badger cavalry? Are they even worth fielding?
>>
>>44771523
Most everything is "worth fielding" in KoW. There aren't any laughably useless units like there are in 40k or WHFB.

But to answer your question a bit more appropriately, brock cavalry are fast and hit hard, but don't expect to last very long in combat. Dwarf berserker units tend to be glass cannons, and brocks are really what allow you to be super aggressive. You'll have to be careful about who you engage and how you move them, but if you do it right you'll wipe your opponents off the board before they can retaliate.
>>
>>44726906
Oooh, I'm going to have to check this out. I like the look of the minis.

How's the lore though?
>>
>>44771718
Read the thread.
It's sparse but built to be about "Your Dudes"
It's not bad per se, its just a bit generic and light with tons of room for growth.
Your mileage may vary.
>>
>>44771718
The fluff is largely non-existant at this point. They've said that building a more complete world is one of their top priorieties, but for now there isn't a whole lot to go off of.
>>
>>44771908
>>44771876
This is kind of cool when you think about it. I like their approach to building armies and what you can use.
>>
>>44771908
Well, they are putting out a campaign soon and apparently the outcome among the players will decide the direction of the fluff.
>>
>>44772208
Oh god... A few years ago, I'd think that was a really cool thing for them to do, but now? Now I'm just concerned that it will in no way end well.
>>
>>44772240
I don't see a problem if there is no fluff to screw up to begin with.
>>
>>44772240
I don't really get the concern. How would a campaign setting be bad?
>>
>>44772421
Maybe he thinks Mantic might mess things up like GW has done in the past? I don't see this happening because the setting isn't as character driven and the relation between nations hasn't been fleshed out. So basically the fluff starts with this campaign.
>>
>>44772520
I agree. This campaign is giving the world more substance and getting the community involved at the same time, so I think it's a good idea. Besides, Mantic isn't so dumb that they'd pull a Storm of Chaos.
>>
>>44772208
>players will decide the direction of the fluff.
Pretty sure that isn't what they'll do. They know where they want the backstory to go, but whichever faction wins will have a bigger spot-light in the events then those that lose.
>>
>>44772583
Well, the entire theme of Storm of Chaos hinged on Chaos not fucking up and Archaon taking just one city. What Mantic will be doing will probably be less focused on one faction even though Undead and the Abyss will be central to the conflict.

The notion of KoM winning hard would be fun, though. Since they are presented as the Anonymous faction without central characters.
>>
>>44772240
Mantic isn't GW mate, let's them try it, I bet they will surprise us.
>>
I really don't want more fluff- most of my armies I've thought of a bit of background, picked units that fit that, and used allies and things like that to fit those backgrounds I've made. I don't want that invalidated by stuff that might come out in the future.
>>
>>44774340
Yeah, but a lot of people do want official fluff because they want to feel that they are also buying a narrative. I guess it's just a mindset that GW originally created and it just stuck.
>>
>>44727407
They look good, I might see if I can get some people like this for the back rows of my undead units, fluff them as minor necromancers controlling their little group of skellies.
>>
Next KoW kickstarter when?

I want minis for not-Chaos warriors that aren't covered in spikes.
>>
>>44774659
It's really weird how hard it is for some people to come up with their own back stories and lore for their dudes. They're your dudes, make up whatever the fuck you want.
>>
>>44777100
I'm just saying that people are conditioned to follow canon for some reason. Maybe they don't have any confidence in their imagination or don't want to be labeled as someone who makes fanfic?
>>
>>44777165
>don't want to be labeled as someone who makes fanfic?
What is role play?
>>
>>44777100
>>44774659
GW used to point out heavily that your armies was your dudes and you should totally write backstories for it and give them names and so on. Not gonna lie, it was like 10 years ago.

It changed a fucking lot.
>>
>>44777256
I'm not saying that people are rational or even stupid. Peer pressure gives people weird ideas and no where else do I see people bitch about "special snowflakes", like it's a real problem, than online.
>>
>>44777165
It's still nice to have "your dudes" in the context of a good setting, though.
>>
>>44778890
Sure, Warhammer Fantasy was actually pretty good at this. Kingdoms and factions was large enough to allow you to make up your own things.
>>
>>44778890
Your dudes got sucked into a Warp portal during the end times and wound up in a new setting that you get to create.

Ban, done
>>
>>44779011
The End Times was retarded so I like to think that Storm of Chaos happened instead and Grimgor killed Archaon instead of just being an ass.
>>
>>44779102
>Storm of Chaos happened instead and Grimgor killed Archaon
That's what happened. Period. Any other answer about the WH setting is wrong.
>>
>>44728003

There are quite a few gaming communities that could care less about fantasy but really dig on the KoW mechanics.

Most commonly I see Ancients, but there are a few Napoleonic and ACW KoW hacks out there too.

If I'm looking for a 'rank and flank' fix, I'll take KoW over WFB, Hail Caesar, or any of the even older systems any day of the week. .
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