Do you prefer the Ravnica or RtR art?
I'm going to judge whether the rtr or original version of each shock is better
Close, but the mossy rtr version is better
Not a huge fan of either, but the more spacious art on the original gets my vote
Near impossible to decide because they are both so good, the rtr one has those recognizable colors, I'll give it the edge
This one is no question for me, the original is far superior whereas the rtr version looks childish
The original is beautiful with subtle details that really work well, but I can't pick against the gorgeous and flavorful symmetry of the rtr version
Neither of these do much for me, guess I'll say the original because the art is less murky
The original is slightly better, but they do different things with the art, so this one is particularly hard to decide
Both are fantastic but I think the more clear, and therefore striking, art is the rtr version
This one is easy, the original is a gorgeous piece of art that really gives you a feel of the metropolitan social order azorius flavor, whereas the new art is poorly composed from a perspective standpoint and just not as good
Advantages to each, the original is mysterious and unnerving, and that's why I like it more than the grim dark of the rtr art
First for Gifts being the best deck in the format.
Also, how's everybodies matchup against Bx Eldrazi been going so far?
TecEdge/GQ has not been very great in that matchup for me so far.
Tarmo/Rhino are my way of surviving against decks like Burn/Zoo/Infect/Affinity
I used to run Nobles/Caryatids but they've proven to not really accomplish much outside of dying very quickly
Rhino helps me stabilise and Goyf is either a blocker to help me survive long enough to Gifts or Goyf is a beatdown creature the opponent needs to answer leaving me time to grind them out.
TL;DR Goyf is awesome when there is a lot of aggro and so is rhino
That seems rather random. Why do you suppose that Cycling of all mechanics would return in Shadows when they have just made Scry evergreen and it fulfills pretty much the same purpose?
Innistrad was a graveyard set. They could go back with flashback and graveyard matters, or other fair mechanics related to the graveyard or filling the graveyard, so cycling and or maybe madness has a chance to reappear
>Innistrad was a graveyard set
So they're reprinting Rest in Peace, Ground Seal, Scavenging Ooze, and Scrabbling Claws to make sure no one ever has fun with graveyards in standard again.
As far as I can remember, it was pretty much just Grafnigger's Cage. It wasn't until RTR hit that the graveyard hate in standard became legacy levels of powerful with Deathrite Shaman and Rest in Peace. Then in M14 Scavenging Ooze came along and made sure that the last few months of Innistrad would contain ZERO fun.
Elves is still pretty good, though it depends on your meta. Right now it isn't exactly looking good in higher levels because of all the RG Tron craze, Elves' worst matchup.
That deck has the ability to do completely broken things on turn 3 and consistently wins turn 4, but cheap boardwipe just destroys it if it doesn't have a Chord of Calling
The problem I have with it in this deck is that your win conditions are 4-5 mana. And the inclusion of birds and caryatid gives you acces to a fifth color which let's you go harder with bring to light.
This is the deck i'm building towards
Bob Huang is a cunt. Rules lawyering his way out of a loss, yet fetched a Mountain with Polluted Delta and casting Manamorphose with UB. Either he's a cheater or a bad player, and either way that infuriates me in light of his technicality win. Anyway,
>OG Temple Garden.
>Ravnica art, although a few RtR arts are good in their own right
My first ever shocks were Temple Gardens, I just wish they were these ones
It's close for me. Dissension I think is the superior choice. The gatecrash art is fine but could just use a bit more detail and I don't like the orange contrast for a simic land.Just looks wrong.
OG Borborygmos doesn't even have an activated ability, and he named it with Pithing Needle after seeing it and losing to it the match before. I don't think that's "stupid shit" so much as naivete about context and implication being obvious enough that it won't be contested.
The Pithing Needle aside, fetching a goddamn Mountain witth a Delta and playing Manamorphose for UB both have two things in common - that's the kind of shit that would never come across a seasoned (or even new) player's mind because both of those actions are completely illegal. Bob Huang's known for being slimy so I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional, but even if it wasn't, those actions are WAY sloppier than misnaming Borborygmos with Pithing Needle.
agree, but the more I look at the original by itself the more I like it, it just looks off on a card however
both are meh, I actually prefer the Expedition (and that saying something cause it's mediocre)
Old-school all the way, I like the grittiness and the sense of scale
the new one is so ugly and plain, the old one has this beautiful gothic look to the buildings and feels "lived in"
original by a long shot, that beautiful orange glow across the entire image just gets me, the new one looks like something out of a comic (not inherently bad but not suitable for magic landscape art in my opinion
tough, but the old one again, has that beautiful reddish purple light streaming through is wonderful use of chiaroscuro. The new one, while I love the colours, has perspective that almost looks off
I like them both but the new one, the way lighting is used with the position of the pillar, enveloping what should be the central focus of the image is shadow is an interesting choice and captures the chaotic and unnerving nature of the Rakdos Cult
New one. The framing is what gets me, the buildings reaching upwards and towards the sky and the sterility of the whole setting is really indicative of the Azorious Senate
I don't really like either of them but if I have to choose I'd go with the new one, I enjoy the dreary vapors rising from the water, it reminds me of what you seen in concept art for a videogame
It really doesn't, since they both fulfill the same role.
The question just comes down to cantrip vs rebound. Rebound is great if you can't go for 10 that turn but have gas in hand for next turn, cantrip on Slip makes it a less useless topdeck in the late game when you probably have an Agent or an Inkmoth ready to punch through anyway.
Both are good, prefer the original
New art, no contest
Old art is far superior, a lot of the new art looks italicized and this is one of the worst offenders
I actually prefer the new version despite it suffering from the same problems as Godless Shrine, the old one just looks pasted together out of a bunch of things that don't fit
How could anyone prefer the new art to the old art?
Actually prefer the new art because you can tell what's happening, the old art is basically unintelligible
Old art no contest. The bulging transparent water rubes are ugly as sin
Neither are particularly good, but I prefer the original
Original art for sure, the big tree with the big tree symbol on it looks ridiculous
New art actually looks like a UB land, old art looks green
Bumping mostly to not have people think there is no MTG Modern thread going.
For actual content/discussion, what cards are you looking at from Gatewatch that could see play in Modern?
Hard Mode: Pick things other than Nissa's Oath or Eldrazi Displacer.
I'd like to disagree with that
Most creatures in the list (Tasigur, Goyf, Scooze) can close out the game on their own along with support from things like Lili.
Siege Rhino is just strictly a value card.
I used to run the all-in Gifts version which ran many singletons and the Loam combo, I gave it up because of it's consistency
So far the consistency with the Junk version is nice and everything Bring To Light can grab only costs 4cmc or lower so, going four color is more optimal honestly instead of running the dorks.
Should I sell mine now? Or will the price continue to go up after it won the open
I mean, talking about the shocklands art is fine, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about other things related to the Modern format.
As for what OP asked, this is my opinion of best art for each shockland:
> RTR Overgrown Tomb
> RAV Hallowed Fountain
> RAV Steam Vents
> RTR Blood Crypt
> RTR Temple Garden
(either version is acceptable)
> Original Godless Shrine
(either version is acceptable)
> RTR Watery Grave
(either version is acceptable)
> RAV Stomping Ground
> RAV Sacred Foundry
> Original Breeding Pool
(either version is acceptable)
There's something about the deck that attracts me, I hate white though
Let's say I activate this 4 or 5 times after enough time to generate the required mana. What's the likelihood of it being any good? Maybe sideboard?
Tipping malady temple referring it as "m'lady" level shit right here.
Not really, builds with no lands (i.e. manaless dredge) have plenty of ways to cheat the Spy into play, but they'll pretty much never be able the 1 mana for the informer's ability. The difference is pretty relevant.
First modern deck, what should my upgrade path for this thing be over time? I wanted to keep it relatively budget so this all cost me about 65 bucks. What upgrades would be most optimal to make at first?
You'd want to slowly build into proper Affinity builds
For now you can either go for
4x Steel Overseers and 4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Glimmervoid and 4x Galvanic Blast
Your last step should be the most expensive parts, ravagers and opals
It's alright, but that card gives you the edge in Grixis matchups and fixes your colors when you run say, Shaman of the Packs, or other silver bullet creatures like Burrenton Forge Tender. You can skip that one for now, but at least get 2 if you have the chance
Drop scissors to one
If you run tempered steel you drop thoughtcast and scissors
If you run thoughtcast you drop tempered steel. Too mana restrictive to run both
You want 4 drums
Get your mox opals. Affinity decks without them are shit
I was thinking about getting 4 green/black shocks instead since they are way cheaper and I might build some abzan stuff afterwards.
Another question would be about Chord. I figured it would be nice in the sideboard to let you fetch other SB cards like Reclamation Sage. Is there any merit to playing Chord mainboard though over stuff like CoCo or Lead the Stampede?
what >>44735207 said, however if you want to make it better as it is now get yourself some fetches and shocks, though you'll remove them as you build proper affinity with glimmervoids (40 dollar card) and inkmoth nexus's (a 25 dollar card) they'll make your deck more consistent an the price of both of them should stay about the same or rise in the case of the fetches, so if you sell them when your done you pretty much got to play with them for free.
So I just played some guy playing what looked like Bant tooth and nail and it looked crazy strong.
First game he killed me turn 3 with a knight and coralhem combo.
Second game I managed to kill off his Arbor elf early but it didn't matter as a utopia sprawl and lotus cobra gave him enough mana to drop and protect a Garruk. Next turn he casts t&n for big em and xenagod. GG
Honestly I was impressed and it looks like it could be a legitimate threatening deck
It depends. If u just want to be casual, not. If you want to be competitivo then yes. Its much better for vintage/legacy, cause they are way much cheaper there. But be prepared for bad players and people who will scoop if you play an island
If I were you I'd get 4x G/x fetches (windswept heath comes to mind) and at least 2 Tombs and 1 Temple garden for color fixing if you plan a Gbw build
Also Chord is a mainstay MB of Elves. It allows you to fetch 1-of spellskite and Reclamation Sage to deal with removal or problematic artifacts/enchantments. It also allows you to tutor silver bullets like Burrenton Forge Tender, Kataki War's Wage and Scavenging Ooze from the board. Other builds opt to run Lead the Stampede instead, and although it has also shown tournament results, the Chord build is way better in dealing with hate
I think mainboard chord are great, almost always a good, can hit an ezuri or archdruid if you need, or mirror entity or spellskite or scooze defensively. Often will let you close out a game a lot faster. Also if you run shaman can get one of them out for an 8 damage burn spell.
Your options with white have some flexibility, cards like Burrenton Forge Tender help you against damage based burn mass removal, Dauntless Escorts for destroy based mass removal lang Damnation or Oblivion Stone. The latter isn't that used since not alot of decks pack destroy mass removal, so Phyrexian Revoker is a better choice for shit like Tron's Oblivion Stone and Ugin
Im going to play in my lgs modern tournament this friday, and its the first time ive played in a tournament. I play a tribal goblins deck in casual and i was hoping it would translate ok to modern. Not looking to win the whole thig just compete and not get steamrolled.
2 krenko, mob boss
1 goblin fireslinger
1 voracious dragon
3 goblin piledriver
1 ember hauler
1 goblin balloon brigade
1 goblin chieftain
2 goblin arsonist
1 chandra ablaze
1 forked bolt
1 flame slash
2 goblin grenade
2 lava spike
4 dragon fodder
4 krenko's command
4 lightning bolt
1 staff of the flame magus
1 witchbane orb
All thoughts/suggestions welcome and appreciated
Been playing it about a month now in town. Have yet to do worse than top 4 and that's with a lot of tier 1 decks around. Just watch out for Elves, Affinity and Tron if they have Ugins. Been liking 2 hibernations for elves/zoo
Blood Crypt: NEW
>Breeding Pool: OLD
Godless Shrine: NEW
>Hallowed Fountain: NEW
Overgrown Tomb: NEW
>Sacred Foundry: NEW
Steam Vents: OLD
>Stomping Ground: OLD
Temple Garden: NEW
>Watery Grave: NEW
I think most of the new ones look cleaner.
Very important. I used to run 2 but every time playing I always wanted 4. Bite the bullet and grab Caverns asap. However you can opt to not use Horizon Canopies. While a nice card for filtering draws they're not worth the $$$ unless you're playing at a GP or something for that edge.
Yes and i'm presuming you want cards that are Modern legal? What you want is Trickbind. Best part is that it has Split Second so it will always resolve unless there's a Chalice of the Void on the field on 2.
Blood Crypt: New
Breeding Pool: Old
Godless Shrine: New
Hallowed Fountain: Old
Overgrown Tomb: Old
Sacred Foundry: Old
Steam Vents: New
Stomping Ground: Old
Temple Garden: New
Watery Grave: Old
Hardcore hand shuffling.
saying "thinking" after every activation, even if you don't have anything.
Putting creatures behind lands.
Wearing a fedora, khakis and graphics tee.
Grabbing their cards without asking first.
Well your buylist should look like this
4x Foundry Street Denizen
4x Legion Loyalist
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
2x Goblin Grenade
4x Mogg War Marshal
3x Goblin Chieftain
2x Hordeling Outburst
Next you'll be wanting to get some Shared Animosity. If you wanna save some money you can go for Goblin King (get 3rd or 4th ed) instead of Goblin Chieftain, has a similar but also inferior effect. Wait until a reprint for Goblin Guides since you're just starting out.
Cut all your creatures except the Chieftain and maybe one Krenko if you really like him.
As for spells, cut everything (including Chandra) except Bolts, Dragon Fodders and Krenko's Commands.
Should i cut out piledriver as well? Getting a million goblin tokens on the field and 1 or 2 of them and then swinging with everybody is how i useually win. Will these cards you suggested let me play a bunch of goblins really fast still?
Also, shock lands have both land types, which is a lot more relevant when combined with fetches. The fact that the Tainted cycle only taps for colors when you already control a Swamp is pretty bad too.
I play them in all my EDH decks though.
Use Pile-Driver only until you get Shared Animosity. With Pile-Driver he is just going to get removed. All the goblins I recommended either benefit from creatures entering, make other creatures or give your entire board some other effect, Piledriver just benefits itself.
Also, read this http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/220256-goblins.
does this refer to the slantyness and super skewed perspectives?
If so, that quality bothers me a lot, especially on lands.
As far as my fav i only have blood crypts and i like each one for different reasons. However i lean towards the og version because it think it looks really pretty and the orange complements my dragonskull summits nicely. And the flames on the rtr version look kind of awkward
tainted cycle would be pretty cool
where you been all week dog? niggas buyin out everything. spellskite is fucking $40 now. inquisition peaked at almost $50 but has fell back down after people started cashing in their sets. thank god it was uncommon.
ACCORDING TO MARO IT WAS ORIGINALLY IN OGW BUT IT PROVED "PROBLEMATIC" IN TESTING. CAN'T HAVE GOOD CARDS RUINING OUR LIMITED ENVIRONMENT NOW CAN WE
>wizards prints all shit every set
>can't put in actually good cards because it warps limited
>wizards never prints good cards or reprints ever again
I mean would IoK as a rare really hurt limited at all?
I am very understanding with Wizards' decisions, but this one is just fat fucking shit. Why couldn't it be in both MM2 and OGW? Smash to Smithereens turned out just fine. At the very least guarantee us one reprint in either.
Wotc doesn't like the idea of a high powered standard format like they've had in the past, because newer players who don't totally understand the game inside and out got steamrolled and lost interest. so they prefer a standard where you just cram rhinos and rhino accessories into a pile of cards and do pretty okay with it. They also believe the players are too stupid for them to print anything genuinely interesting ever again.
From rosewater's blog:
>altik-0 asked: RE Question of the day: Cards that directly refer to the stack. I really wish a red sorcery that shuffled the stack could exist.
>We tend not to mention the stack because the vast majority of players (I’m guessing 90%+) don not understand how the stack works or, in many cases, that the stack even exists.
There was another quote I just cannot find where he said casual players that never leave the kitchen table are about 99% of the MTG player base and that he doesn't care in competitive players aren't happy with the new sets being printed because "they aren't for you"
Catering to casuals ruin everything. This is exactly what happened to vidya and now it invades card games.
Well at least I have yugioh, which manages to get MORE complex every year at least.
Original, no question. New one is too CGI, and looks like something out of Halo
Original. Whoever is responsible for the abomination that is the new watery grave should be shot.
Not big on either, but I have to take the haziness of the original over the wonky scale of the new one
I like them both, this one is a toss up
Fuck the new art, the original is some of my favorite art in the game
Both are legitimately great, but they play off of different ideas. Original feels more like a shrine that god abandoned, new feels like a shrine that god never had anything to do with from the start. Toss up.
Original is infinitely better than the whipped cream and anti-freeze tubes of the new art. Also not a fan of having guild logos in the art, even though it makes sense for izzet
Both are good. I tend to prefer the original, but the new one has grown on me
the giant anvil is fucking stupid. Original all the way.
Close, but I prefer the new art. Old art is nice, but it's very dark and hard to pick out any details. The colors really pop on the new art.
What's a cheap and effective modern deck that I can make to play sometimes just for fun and for my brother to play when he's around to go to locals with my friends?
Preferably something that's at least competitive and around 50-100.
Agreed, the original is overall better, but the new version is both better on the small card scale, and feels better for the card.
Hold the fuck up, have you seen the RtR art for this one? It is fantastic. Easy win.
Eh, not a fan of either. The new one is kind of boring, and the old one doesn't show off the unnatural side of things, and looks like a Golgari card. I'm giving this to the old one, though, because it looks good on its own.
Agreed, although the newer one is probably suited better for card art. Actually, that is a common theme in this set. It seems they realized cityscapes look bad on cards, and a lot of reprints seem to have more focus.
Hard to tell, both look good. The old one is a bit classier, but the new one looks better on the card, and has a smiley face. I'll give this one to the older one, though, it really looks better the more I look at it. The only downside is it is very similar to the basic land art and even the bounceland.
Dat stained glass seals the new version, although the old one might look better in higher res. Sadly, neither win because they did not cause me to orgasm like the expedition did.
Love them both, the older one is more mysterious, and feels like it is more "bloody", but I feel the new one is a better fit for the card.
New one looks more impressive, but that is actually bad. This is supposed to be a hidden place, so clear win for the old.
We need to become more like Fighting Games, and foster an even more intense atmosphere of hostility towards casuals.
Ritualistic hazing of anyone who enters an LGS for the first time would be my suggestion.
That doesn't help, SFIV and V are garbage, Marvel went to shit, and everything else is a weeaboo anime fighter. There is no stopping it. Companys realize it's easier to make casual shit with cheap skinnerbox gameplay than make an actually good game with a fraction of the effort.
>Jap Fighting game devs
>Community complains of "bullshit"
>Lol we made the game as balanced as possible and we know that gitgud scrub
>Other competitive games
>Community complains of "bullshit"
>O-ok we'll fix that right up, do you want a complete nerf?
>wizards cracking down on proxy tournies
>stores can lose their WPN status if they continue to host them
Fucking rip paper Legacy and Vintage. Rip my LGS's proxy Modern and Legacy events.
Are you guys ready for more Modern price hikes?
Just play Guilty Gear, familia. It's gaining traction in terms of playerbase, has high profile Japanese players playing it and it looks gorgeous as fuck. People like to rip on it because they removed FRCs, which was a legitimate entry barrier anyway
Faultless Roman Cancels. Basically ways to reset a combo into another combo by burning 25% of your meter.
Note that most characters in Guilty Gear don't rely on meter for special moves like in SF, instead using meter for ways to reset their stance and chain hits together.
Orignial zendikar was hated in limited aside from rise of the eldrazi.
They were also pretty terrible for standard, but it had powerful cards and people care more about whether a set is good for their gambling than whether it is good for the game.
Are the Zendikar Expedtion lands allowed in this thread?
That's why MKX was never a GOOD competitive game. Nerfing once a fortnight is bad.
At least, SFV promised to not do gameplay patched until Dec 2016.
Netherrealms are shitty devs, and their patchfest philosophy is what made the game shit on top of no push back on moves, block button and nonsensical High-Low properties on moves.
KI is actually pretty decent for a western fighting game
>Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. As we discussed we received information concerning some questionable or undesirable activity that occurred at your store. We understand many of these issues stem from misconceptions or miscommunications and I have summarized what we discussed below.
>Magic events (sanctioned and unsanctioned) can only allow genuine Magic: The Gathering cards.
>Proxy cards are substitute cards created solely by judges in sanctioned tournaments pursuant to the official tournament rules. These substitutes are allowed when authorized game cards become unplayable during a sanctioned tournament because of damage or excessive wear.
>Counterfeit cards are copies or reproductions of actual Wizards trading cards, whether or not they are identified as non-genuine. The creation and distribution of counterfeits violate United States and international copyright laws and negatively affects the integrity of Wizards’ trading card games. Counterfeits are strictly prohibited, even for personal, non-commercial use.
Wizards goes out of its way to dick over its players. It goes out if its way to dick over WPN stores. It bends over backwards for investors and speculators. They are soulless money-grubbing sons of bitches who have long since stopped caring about the quality of their product.
Flick the cards in your hand.
I play 8-rack.
it's to break your opponent's concentration. if they know you're constantly moving they'll try to watch you to see if you're doing anything they could call a judge about. if they're watching you, they're not thinking about their line of play as much.
Bruh, you are just making me want to wear a shirt to prerelease now
>the vast majority of players (I’m guessing 90%+) don not understand how the stack works or, in many cases, that the stack even exists.
That's terrifying. This is why we can't have nice things like Ravnica/Time Spiral standard...
I'm autistic and even I find that shit retarded. It's even worse when people try to defend it for some sort of tactical reason instead of just owning up to being a spaz.
>robbing the other player of the win they totally could have gotten if you hadn't made the match go to time.
This cost me the first time I would have won an FNM draft
I'm still pissed
slaughter games naming ad nauseam
cast silence in response to ad nauseam
spellskite. they can't combo until they get rid of it because you can change the target of lightning storm to spellskite.
leyline of sanctity
use an eldrazi processor to put their suspended lotus blooms into the graveyard from exile. this one will probably result in an aggressive judge call followed by salt. be wary.
>"90% of our players don't understand one of the fundamental parts that makes our game work."
>"Rather than addressing this, we're just going to ignore it and restrict our ability to make cards that do interesting things."
This is how you get players who think that if they shout the name of their burn spell before you cast your pump spell that your creature is dead, or that if they cast spells while you aren't paying attention, you don't get to counter them.
most ad nauseam deck have slaughter pact to deal with spellskite. they also have lab maniac backup win in case of leyline. exile SSG to cast rituals, use manamorphose to change to blue mana, cast lab maniac, cast serum visions.
>the vast majority of players (I’m guessing 90%+) do not understand how the stack works
So... MaRo thinks nine out of ten of us, at least, are gibbering morons?
I don't have a picture that can even represent my disgust and dismay, so here's a picture of George Takei instead.
I can't believe that. The last two years I've split my time (due to business travel) between two stores in the US, one in the UK, and one in Japan, and I can maybe think of one case where I've played anyone that incompetent. And a lot of the Japanese players I've met were kitchen table players who weren't playing at home because they just don't have a kitchen table big enough.
I can't believe that 90% or MORE of MtG players can't understand something as basic as the stack, and I certainly can't see designing for that level of stupidity being a good idea.
the kitchen table players I've met here in the states are complete babbling morons. I had one tell me regenerate returns a card from the graveyard to play while I was staring at a card with the regenerate reminder text on it. he played with the two sided transform cards in his main deck, when a spell/ability let him put one into play without casting it, he told me he could put it into play transformer. I told him no. he looked me right in the fucking face and lied to me, said he looked it up online and you can. he tried to convince me some stupid fucking rat legend from kamigawa that's basically krenko was banned in all formats for being too strong. and I've met many like him. not quite as much bullshit as that, but the "if i don't know for sure just make shit up and go with it" mentality permeates kitchen table play. anyone who tries to play correctly gets told "chill man it's just a game xD" and according to wotc research, the number of people who play like this greatly outnumber the people who go to shops and compete in any kind of events at all.
Rav one seems really fiery, whereas the RTR one looks really cult-y and scary, RTR
I love the GTC one so much I have it as a playmat, Rav is good too
I love how the GTC one has the central color and depicts the inside of this shrine, GTC
Rav one has way more world-building, Rav
RTR one looks so much more gritty and real, the Rav one looks too bright and vague, RTR
the GTC one just looks silly, Rav one looks kickass, RAV
I don't think either is particularily great, but I guess I like the Rav one for showing it as part of the city, RAV
They seem pretty much the same, I like the GTC one a little more, GTC
I really love both, but I think I like the harmony in symmetry of the RTR one a little more
The GTC one is very dark and gritty but almost comical with all those spikes, I think the RAV one is a little more realistic
Ethersworn Canonist is the best card against it. Slaughter games is alright but they have Lab Man. Spellskite is also good but Slaughter Pact is usually somewhere in the 75. Leyline gets blown up by Patricians Scorn so it's not 100% reliable. Thoughtseize and Inquisition can be blanked by a Leyline of their own from the board.
Canonist requires them to have a removal spell in hand before they can even think of going off. I'd say Canonist is probably one of the most important sideboard cards in the format right now for dealing with un-interactive combo.
because you don't have to be smart to play DANK MEME RHINOS SON! and you make them feel smart by counting good with awesome +1/+1 counter mechanics. even incompetent retards have disposable income to blow on boosters that might have rhinos and +1/+1 counters
the worst part is the man I described has been playing this fucking game since kamigawa. he got into mtg because it was a japanese themed set and he thought naruto was cool or some shit.
I mean we've all seen the noobs that tap llanowar elves the turn they play it to fetch a forest and tap it, but at FNM I had to call a judge to convince this kid that you could fetch lands with either type with a fetch
Because wizards doesn't give a fuck if they play the game correctly as long as they hand over their money. Which is strange because if they're going to play wrong because they're too stupid to understand the actual rules and are going to do whatever they want anyway, then why cater to them at all?
smart players just buy singles. or only buy boosters to draft. these retards are buying 3-4 boosters every time they happen to pass by the card aisle at walmart, or picking up a fat pack every week off their burger king pay check. they make up the huge majority of MTG product sales.
wotc couldn't give less of a fuck about the smart players if they tried. kitchen table will always gobble up whatever they put out.
let me rephrase, kitchen table will always gobble up whatever oversimplified uninteresting garbage they put out. if they go making things more complex than fat rhinos and +1/+1 counters the kitchen table players get confused and don't buy quite as much because they have to spend more time reading the cards they already have.
just ask yourself, when was the last time we had a -1/-1 counters block instead of +1/+1. the answer is scars of mirrodin. 5 years ago. making creatures smaller isn't as happy feel good time as making everything bigger, so they stopped doing it.
>5 years since the last -1/-1 counter block
I hate to even play devil's advocate with this idea, but do you think wotc has legitimately discussed if it's been too long and reintroducing -1/-1 counters would just confuse all the players that have started playing since then? and so they just wont do a -1/-1 block ever again?
Oh dear, when 8Rack was a new thing and actually assraping the format (Which was WUR Geist Control, UR Twin, Scapeshift, Jund and Affinity) the local uber spike actually got all twitchy and shit because I left him without cards to flick.
>at FNM I had to call a judge to convince this kid that you could fetch lands with either type with a fetch
Happened to me, the kid had a fucking epiphany and yelled "that's why that shit land is so expensive!".
I was a substitute teacher for 2 years and I don't think I've ever seen a teen's brain work logic until that day.
You're not seeing the forest for the trees.
Dumbass players don't get confused, they don't care. They will buy it anyway.
That's why there's only two non-land playable rares in BFZ. Dumbasses buy the crap anyway, but those "smart" players who only buy singles now have to open aprox 112 boosters to get Ulamog or Gideon, or pay someone (SCG, CFB, etc) who opened aprox 112 boosters to get Ulamog or Gideon however much they ask for it.
I doubt that. The reason they didn't do -1/-1 counters at all for so long was because they were convinced that everything they did could be done with +1/+1 counters, not because they thought that it would be more confusing. Though, that is the reason that they aren't doing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters in the same block.
Only in Legacy and Vintage where there are cards that care about the graveyard order.
>Dumbass players don't get confused, they don't care. They will buy it anyway.
That would seem to be the logical conclussion, but it clearly isn't. The last time WotC did very complex blocks was in Time Spiral and Lorwyn, and those sold very poorly because many casual kitchentable players felt stupid when reading the cards.
Because, let's say that you want to make a Troll that gets weaker and weaker whenever it takes damage. You could word it like:
>If ~ would be dealt damage, prevent that damage and put a -1/-1 counter on it.
Or you could just have it enter the battlefield with +1/+1 counters on it and word it like:
>If ~ would be dealt damage, prevent that damage and remove a +1/+1 counter from it.
instead of putting counters on their creatures, you put counters on your creatures as a combat trick. instead of them being smaller, you're bigger. it's retarded but for retarded players it may as well be the same thing.
Are you serious? Do you have some sort of link corroborating that claim?
The reason time spiral and Lorwyn didnt sell is because players felt stupid reading the cards?
I hope you feel stupid coming up with shit like that
he says in so many words, "old players loved it, new players hated it, they're our real money so shit fuck we gotta change shit"
WotC have been very open about what their market research said on the subject. Complex sets sell less because they make casual players feel dumb.
Here for example
Aaron Foresythe goes through how each block in between the two Ravnicas sold and what their market research told them about it.
Granted, complexity wasn't Time Spiral's and Lorwyn's only faults but there's no point in denying that was a major cause behind why they sold poorly.
To players like you and me, yes. And Future Sight was one of the best sets ever printed. Hell, even Maro has said that it's his personal favorite block of all time.
The problem is that new and casual players make up the bulk of all sales, and to them the block didn't make sense, so they didn't buy it.
Casually, TS and Lorwyn hit during recession same as NPH and BFZ.
Apparently WotC refuses to believe people would rather eat and pay the rent than play magic when money is scarce.
The most amazing thing here is that Wizards have a team whose job it is to find out why certain sets sold particularly well or particularly poorly, and yet you're convinced that you have found the one data point that they have overlooked.
>they're not poor, they're just stupid
How do they even measure this "data" accurately, other than causation mumbo jumbo? Have they ever realized that maybe a set sold poorly because the new CoD came out? Or because the set sucked? Fuck I bet someone just connected the dots that the less keywords/mechanics, the greater the sales, which isn't necessarily true but it happened to fit the bill and WotC ate that shit up.
Or maybe it's a cultural trend, since IMO magic and comics and shit have made a solid comeback.
>NPH sold badly
>It's powerful, so that's not it, or is it?
>Those fuckers spoiled the set, that must be it!
>What? People can barely pay the gas to get to work? Nah, that doesn't matter, they need their cardboard crack more than they need a roof above their heads.
Either they're retarded or they're bullshitting harder than all cow breeders combined to justify the lottery method caused by lowering the power-level of commons, and scare us into denouncing spoilers.
Do you honestly believe that an entire team of people who literally analyze market trends for a living all just happened to ignore all those possibilities and jumped to whatever conclusion they wanted? And you think that these people would still have jobs somehow?
i slap myself stupid for not buying more NPH. but I had just started college and my shitty ass walmart job wasn't cutting it, I just couldn't afford cards at the time. I quit mtg for years because i was just fucking poor
I just got a real job recently so I know how it feels.
I think at the end of the day putting your financial and mental wellbeing over pieces of cardboard is definitely the right play.
Not the same person but.... To be quite honest, yes. Considering how shit the coding department on WotC side is, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the PR/Analyzing department was underpayed group of people incompetent in their job.
Rosewater tells this story about how the two worst-polling cards in Unglued were Blacker Lotus and Chaos Confetti. The marketing department came to him wondering why, since they couldn't figure it out. Was it the art? Did they not get the joke? They had absolutely no clue.
This was way back in '98 of course. But who knows? Maybe they're still that idiotic.
it's not even the spikes itself but more of the annoying strokes the spikes take in every single card that he makes. it's like he literally applies a filter whenever he's done making a piece
Alright guys.. I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but it seems like you know your MtG shit. I'm a complete beginner and I do not own a single card and never played the game, but I would like to get into magic. What should be my first purchase? (I was thinking about buying Zendrikar vs. Eldrazi) Just for learning the game and later on playing against other people from my local game store.
Would help me alot if someone could give me some directions.
Buy Duels of the Planeswalkers 2014 on Steam (there are more current editions but the series peaked in quality at 2014). It'll teach you the fuck how to play. Then go to the prerelease this weekend (15th/16th/17th) at your local game store.
The prerelease is considered an easy event for beginners. You'll receive six booster packs from which to make a 40-card deck. Typically they cost about $25. Here's a primer: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/how-play-limited/oath-gatewatch-prerelease-primer-2016-01-12
MTG is such a toxic game, casual playing is mostly dead and frowned upon. "Formats" are like restrictions on which cards you can use to play and are mostly competitive.
The good and fun competitive formats are dying and/or have a high barrier for entry (Legacy, Vintage) and what your left with is an unfun competitive environment (standard) but still also has a high barrier for entry because the latter is the only one that is supported by wizards of the coast.
That being said two of the most recent event decks should be a nice buy and can get you started with standard :^)
That's too bad to hear, the game itself seems amazing. Very interactive and social. But I'll have to take a step back if you call it a toxic game and casual play is just dead. Thanks for the information.
Thanks! I've added DotP2014 to my wishlist (maybe it'll go in sale soon). Sounds good, I'll check it out.
Just sick of playing Hearthstone behind a screen...
>That's too bad to hear, the game itself seems amazing. Very interactive and social. But I'll have to take a step back if you call it a toxic game and casual play is just dead. Thanks for the information
Don't listen too hard to guys like that. /tg/ is disproportionately filled with angry bitter grognards, and very few of them actually participate in the game beyond bitching on anonymous mongolian tapestry-weaving imageboards. First question, who are you intending to play against? Friends who also want to get into magic? Or randoms at competitive/semi competitive events?
Dumbass players do stop buying product though. Timespiral is proof of that. At the time of ts, wizards thought that sales were proportional to tournament attendance. Time spiral was a love letter to tournament players and vorthos. It was a very high powered and mechanically interesting set. And sales wise it flopped. The mechanics were too confusing for the majority of players so they stopped buying.
Yeah, from a data set of 150 games, only 30 of which were tourney games iirc.
That guy needs to stop bootstrapping and pretending it's at all adequate.
Let the mtggoldfish guys do their nibble work again wizards. They produced statistically significant results.
>slaughter games naming ad nauseam
This works only about maybe 40% of the time. They can still go off by casting Ad Nauseam on your turn if they have Phyrexian Unlife in play then kill you on their own upkeep, plus they have Slaughter Pact as well. Rule of Law is a better alternative in most decks to it since harder to answer for them other than Echoing Truth or just trying to combo across 3 separate turns.
>cast silence in response to ad nauseam
Works only if they don't have Pact of Negation in hand, otherwise it does an interestingly good job.
Both targetted and non-targetted discards are good.
>spellskite. they can't combo until they get rid of it because you can change the target of lightning storm to spellskite.
This is actually somewhat false and a little bit misleading. Yes you are correct that you can redirect lightning storm to spellskite but all the Ad Nauseam player has to do if they're smart is let the Spellskite activation resolve and then discard another land with LS still on the stack each time forcing you to pay 2 life to keep on redirecting. If you're on anything less than 20 life you will run out of Spellskite activations more often than they will run out of lands.
>leyline of sanctity
Will get blown up by Patrician's Scorn. Still useful though because it necessitates a win through Angel's Grace and not viable to win through Phyrexian Unlife.
>use an eldrazi processor to put their suspended lotus blooms into the graveyard from exile. this one will probably result in an aggressive judge call followed by salt. be wary.
This one is actually a very good new option.
Canonist will slow them down but won't stop the combo. They can have Phyrexian Unlife in play, cast Ad Nauseam on your turn, then cast Lightning Storm back on their own turn during their upkeep. Still not a bad card though, as an Ad Nauseam player i'm usually more frustrated by Rule of Law than Ethersworn Canonist because it doesn't stop me from casting Lotus Bloom's off suspend or Pentad Prism's.
Good to hear the other side. Sadly I don't have any friends who are also interested in Magic (although I could convince some of them maybe), my plan was to learn the game and play against people at my local game store. (They organize FNM and other competitive play but they also have a room where you can just chill and play for fun.)