What classes do we not see enough BBEGs of? What is one you want to see?
I was thinking of how I don't have any examples of Bard BBEGs.
>What classes do we not see enough BBEGs of?
Artificer, I mean usually it's just straight up wizard when the BBEG is a magic user. But Artificer makes more sense for things like massive magical structures and armies of magical creations. Plus you could do a kind of neat reveal/multi part fight, where you start by fighting an oversized warforged, that at the end of the fight breaks open to reveal the artificer within.
...do we need to map out a level progression system for a commoner class so we can have a commoner bbeg?
Level 3, choose archetype
I think pic related could do "commoner" well.
I had a plan for a Bard main villain that would buff his minions.
He got turned into a Blackguard though since I needed him to be able to fight by himself
when the party eventually starts fighting multiples of him and his clones.
sure, you think it's funny now, but how about when your entire party ends up arms tied under the floor of a giant basket, the only thing keeping you from falling to your fiery deaths in the middle of a volcano? of course, the reeds won't hold too long against the flying blazes, so it's only a matter of time...
all the while the villainous frail old lady weaver screams at you for not stopping by her shop that fateful morning
>literally weaves PCs into a giant adamantine basket on his first turn
I like this plan
Definitely not enough fantasy mad scientist BBEG.
I'm gonna go illusionist or diviner. Normally it's a classic wizard or crazy experimenter wizard. If somebody's a string-puller type BBEG, they're often a noble, or still just a normal wizard/vizier sort..
I want to see a completely mad type that enjoys making everyone doubt their sanity; or a complete magical chessmaster wizard that fills up their spell roster with all the divination spells those schrodinger's wizard wankers talk about all the time (but which don't actually fit any extant spell).
I also feel like we haven't seen enough of the classic melee warlord BBEG recently.
A paladin BBEG? They usually don't fit the usual mold of a villain, so they're usually not the boss at the end of a dungeon.
But one I would like to see is a monk, probably buffed up with some cool enchanted equipment. Imagine an evil version of Jackie Chan who is nearly impossible to hit and just knocking you over and against each other, and telling you all sorts of wise things throughout the fight.
The Inquisition who see all the deeds that your party has done over the campaign to be an affront to the church they serve. It could be that the party's actions have directly gone against the religion or has sown seeds of doubt in the hearts of its devotees and now they're gonna kick some heretic ass, or maybe they just singled out that party to use as scapegoats for all the shady shit the Inquisition have done.
Singing is a must
I've always felt that the Joker is a good example of a bard BBEG.
But he's going up against a monk/rogue multiclass.
>Implying that antagonists should be describable using PC classes
>Implying anything other than PC protagonists should be describable using PC classes
PFFF, way to undermine the uniqueness of PC heroism, while simultaneously making your game feel like some computer game that literally runs on its mechanics rather than using the mechanics to model a fantasy-action world
Give him the Chicken Infested "flaw", a Commoner-only flaw which gives him a 50% chance of spawning a chicken whenever he pulls something out of his backpack.
Then make him a farmer so dedicated to his work he has learned to communicate with the chickens.
GO FORTH MY CHICKEN MINIONS, AND PECK THE EYES OF ALL WHO OPPOSE ME
Removing the possibility of NPCs describable using PC classes would be kind of disappointing to me even as a player. I like the idea of playing characters who come from organizations of people with similar abilities that they got their cool training from, like orders of holy knights or circles of warlocks or whatever.
In the end it was mankind that had become the true monsters.
isn't there something or other that lets people draw items out of inventories as a free action in basically every edition of D&D? Have him get that. Then he infinitely draws specks of sand from a bag until the desired number of them come out as chickens instead.
It's what I do in my own system and game, in that the players each have a singular class with a powerful spread of abilities they get over time. All NPCs, however, are mixed classes with a few powers here and there to make them a weaker but identifiable mixture.
Then when it comes to the BIG Bads, I toss on normal classes on par with the PCs, sometimes reflavored or reskinned with a few tweaks to make them unpredictable.
It basically follows a strong Final Fantasy Tactics style of design.
>chickens are almost universally slaughtered and eaten by the millions
>likely all across reality
>his final power is to tear open a rift in time to summon out every dead enraged chicken ghost, undead, skeleton, or enraged bloodied feral to ever exist across any timeline
No one can defeat an entrenched noble without a huge effort.
Kill him? He's already paid for a clone/jar/resrecution.
Attack him? An army of guards, plus you now have a huge bounty.
>accuse him? Good luck. See many US senators go to jail?
Money buys great protection. Title buys more protection.
Plus he could have the PCs declared outlaws/killers / rapists etc. With little effort.
His "level"? Lv 0.
That's easy. Get a really greedy, powerful dragon pissed off at him. The trick, of course, is to be a minimum of 4 continents away when the shit goes down.
This is why Rogues and Witches and the type exist, to knock those fucks down a few hundred pegs when their waistline oversteps their dangerously stunted common sense.
>make like the reed and bow, for I am the wind.
>Flow like a river; Swift as an arrow and as hard as stone.
>Stick and stone will not break my bones
>Fly as the butterfly and strike swift as the mantis
Got a Druid for my BBEG. Let me tell you, when you push them to Shub-Niggurath levels and let them start to violently terrascape places, their mystery starts to dry up awful fast.
>To be the mountain is to give up the power of the stonecutter
>A small fire is quickly quenched by a raging storm
>a blade of grass is merely the smallest weapon of nature, I am the hammer
>the one who makes trouble can resolve the trouble - through submission
>a monkey can reach as much with his tail as his hand, but he must not grasp outside his reach
>to avoid unnecessary pain is the enterprise of all life - those who bring it upon themselves are nothing more than fools
I want to make this BBEG now. Too bad I can't find shit for evil monk pics.
Doesn't have to be a Monk. Could be anyone or anything that uses hand to hand.
I once had a Lich who was a Death Hand. Fought with nothing but adamant-hard iron-cracking bones in martial arts mixed with necromantic magic and the usual slew of Evil Monk powers, like tearing out hearts and the like.
Second on the paladin as BBEG. BBGG?
What *is* Lawful Good anyways? Seems pretty clear, but remember that even your random ISIS soldier's fighting for his God. Nobody who commits the atrocities thinks they're evil. Nazis fought for genetic purity. Al Qaeda fights an immoral and godless West. Torquemada very rationally concluded that torturing possible heretics was preferable to letting them endanger the souls of God's people.
So what about the party? The rogue? Filthy thief, he deserves nothing but punishment and death. The bard? Immoral womanizer who enchants the good people with his sinful rhythms and devious trickery. The wizard? Communes with evil spirts and wields the dark powers of the devils themselves. And the party's paladin? The worst of the lot - she has clearly refused to slay or even bring in her clearly evil so-called "companions". Such treachery and weakness must be made an example of.
The best part? The paladin BBEG hasn't broken a single line of his code. He'll give you a "fair trial", and show "mercy" in a quick death. I can see a lot of BBEG potential there.
More than a few antagonists (big and small) have powers similar to, or even copy-pasted from the PC's, especially when it's narratively appropriate. What I was talking about here >>44723645 is that OGL tendency for the entire world to HAVE to be described under the same mechanical chassis as the PC's, which (to me) made the world feel like an MMO built on an OGL computer code (like how in that Conan MMO, everyone was the chosen one, so noone's the chosen one,) rather than a role-playing game.
There's also alternative definitions of "Paladin".
damn alternate settings, they make everything confusing
no-one here has done a monk?
I'm doing a D&D campaign for some people where their current main BBEG is a Half-giant monk.
He was another person I knew (the party does not know him)'s CharOp Monk, so he's pretty fucking terrifying in combat.
He's killed 2 party members, and although they didn't take him seriously, they did after he killed those PC's.
There was a drawthread a couple years ago, but I can't find the picture of him.
This is more like 4e's definition of a paladin, which is more like a warrior in service of a god. Which was interesting, since it let you be whatever alignment as long as it was the same as your god, but it changed the paladin a lot.
I've always liked the idea of the Barbarian warlord coming down from the hills/steppes with a huge army of united clans at his back for the BBEG. Shame it just doesn't translate well into most RPGs
Nope. I believe there was a 1ed Blackguard. Both were in 2nd. And quibblers gonna quibble -- they fit the exact same archetype, that of a fighter-divine caster hybrid that adheres strongly to a specific god's ethos.
>IMO, a paladin should never be anything but LG. Or its not a paladin.
Oh, you're of the Nine Names school. I'm fine with that. It seems like an arbitrary labeling requirement when "Paladin" (within the context of D&D) is a perfectly functional descriptor, but if it keeps panties unbunched then whatev.
It's not so much a quest or adventure as it would be a war.
Unless they had to get some kind of McGuffin to defeat him the party would instead have to be military leaders defending the lands. Which I guess could work, I just haven't seen it done successfully before.
The obvious way to go here is the shonen anime route - have your PCs focus on subduing(or converting) increasingly tougher lieutenants/sub-commanders while working their way up to the big bad. These lieutenants could be former leaders of the various tribes united under the BBEG, and could potentially be persuaded to turn traitor, or just killed outright to lower morale and create dissension in the ranks. Or maybe they reveal some hidden weakness of the big bad when pressed.
This way, you have the PC removed from mass combat, with them acting more like a small strike force/assassins.
it's a barbarian warband, the easy way to deal with this still remains. PCs prove themselves to be powerful warriors by beating up continually stronger opponents, the warlord has to fight them to prove how badass he is, he loses and the warband falls into infighting and chaos.
My current BBEG is a bard that's exploiting the power of fame combined with plenty of mass-suggestion that's spread worldwide through leyline shenanigans to turn into a god through worship.
The party's pretty fucked right now so I think the bard's doing pretty well.
>I was thinking of how I don't have any examples of Bard BBEGs.
That would just be IRL commentary at that point.
>implying the kingdom that hired the PCs for this expected them to kill literally every barbarian in the world
>implying the kingdom's finest strategists are that dumb
>implying your DM is that dumb
I have something like this going on in my campaign. It's a 14 year old noble and his advisor. Granted it's a low level campaign, but the idea is that the kid is a courtier for the king that everyone works for. He's from the mainland and it's common for nobles to send their sons away to other courts in order to learn and make connections. And in many cases to prove their worth.
He's been harassing the characters from the get go. They clear a dungeon and cant carry all the loot back? If they talk too much in town, word might get back quickly to the young noble and he'll send his men (and enough carts and courtiers to load everything) to carry it all back. It was a blast to see the players get paranoid and start taking measures to prevent theft. Like hiring guards, or preparing their own caravans.
When the party almost uncovered one of the young noble's operations the paladin got charged with rape, and the chaos from sorting that out allowed the young noble to finish up operations there.
The party is finding out the kid is part of a series of pirate and brigand attacks in the area, but they're going to find out just how hard it is to kill a noble who is the son of a major trading partner.
I once had a concept for a bard lich BBEG who was the conductor of an undead orchestra with a vampire tenor and a banshee soprano. His goal was to travel the land and show the world his magnum opus, a 12 hour long epic that was so amazing that it killed any who heard it and raised them as undead who would willingly follow him and insist that you absolutely must hear it.
>Party Psion makes the poor choice of grabbing the Mindsight feat and having a psicrystal.
>Being mentally pinpointed and having his intelligence checked is an effect which is not instantaneous and lasts more than one round.
>Party watches with confusion and terror as their psion blinks out of existence about a mile outside the Warblade's castle.
I made a bars my BBEG. Of course she was also a dragon. That might have been more important. 'Bard' was just a way to use dat charisma and get den necessary skill points. And fit her dabbler/debutante flavor.
Wasn't there a drow lich bard called the Dancer in White or the like based on Michael Jackson, who would gather information on any potential threats to his plans for months to get as many circumstance bonuses as they could to then go toe to toe with a party? Possibly with a massive group of followers and layered buffs?
This is why I really liked the villain classes from iron heroes. The villans use their own rules that are similar to the PCs but give the villain more conceptually appropriate powers. Examples were a demon brute, evil mage, warlord.
That is fucking great. I can imagine them having some stealthy smaller types that go ahead of the main group and paste flyers all over towns they're approaching as a way of advertising, just typical flashy concert posters, and the peasants just waking up in the morning and shitting themselves when they see that walls have been covered in the things overnight.
But they're the exact opposite of a paladin. The only reason they're so strongly tied to the class is because they're a darker counterpart that paladins can turn to if they fall.