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Which system has the worst grappling rules?
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Which system has the worst grappling rules?
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All of the ones that have grappling rules.
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>>44714571
3.PF and all those that build off that foundation. Too abstract to satisfy the crunchy detail crowd, too slow and complicated to satisfy the roll-and-shout gamist/narrativists crowd. It fails on both approaches.
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>>44714571
Probably FATAL, since you risk accidentally raping your grapple target to death every time.
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FATAL.
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>>44714687

Is he getting a boner?
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>>44714668
Hey now, let's be fair, that can only happen if you're a dude wrestling a woman. Man-on-man rape is icky, and as such mechanically impossible.

Still loving the phrasing there, "rape may occur.". I swear, your honour, I just slipped I did!
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>>44714751
he would be gay if he didnt
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>>44714751
would you not?
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>>44714751
she *is* sitting on his face.
...
There's a monty python song here i just can't quite remember...
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>>44714751
I dunno, but I definitely did.
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>>44715310
>rules for how to rape
>not only that, but they're extremely complex and take every little detail into consideration

What mental illness do you have to have to produce something like this?
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>>44715394
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dax_tnZRExc
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>>44716037
Every single detail of FATAL raises that question. If the creator ever commits a felony, the cops will have already got a hell of a psych profile to work from.
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>>44714571
AD&D
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>>44716037
It's not for nothing that FATAL is considered a serious contender for literally worst RPG of all times.
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>>44714571
The ones that don't have them?
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>>44714668
That's not true.
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>>44714668
>>44715310
Raping in FATAL is never mandatory. If you are a human male and your target is female (of any species, RAW), and you get an Overbearing result on your grappling roll, you may choose to rape. It's not a forced choice, it's not a potential accident.
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>>44714687

You literally cannot lose this fight. Even when he loses, he wins.
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Didn't you have to solve quadratic equations to fuck in FATAL?
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>>44716405

thanks for clarifying. truly I have misjudged FATAL! All this time i have been thinking it a mandatory rape game, when in truth the rape is entirely option.
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>>44716405
What if I wanna rape a dude?
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>>44716663
According to the exhaustive research done by the FATAL design team, dudes raping other dudes is historically inaccurate and also icky and therefore impossible.
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>>44716700
...but they gay rape ogres you can summon out of your ass for miscasting is fine.
>those miscast tables
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>>44716700
And why wouldn't you trust them, after all it is the most detailed, realistic, and historically accurate RPG available.

In other news, according to FATAL, menstruating gives 40% of women a solid chance to become as choleric or melancholic as humanly possible (or beyond, technically), no matter what their personality was like before. Perfectly normal one day, instant suicidial depression and/or berserker rage the next.
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>>44716718
What, did you not hear about the Rape Ogre Rampage of 1370?
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>>44717012
Fuckin' dark times, man.
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>>44716718
>Lesser Holocaust
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>>44716955
I thought realms of atlantasia was the most realistic
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>>44716151
>>44716181
You have to factor polynomials during character creation, don't you? I mean, it's not like polynomials are hard, but fuckin' hell.
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>>44714571

3.PF

Any game that requires a flowchart just to perform a basic action deserves to burn in a fire.
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>>44717461
No, I don't believe you have to ever factor a polynomial in FATAL.
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>>44717461
I'm pretty sure that's GURPS
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Are people forgetting the bullshit that was 2nd edition aD&D grapple rules?

Which system has functional grapple rules at all?
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>>44717491
You do for calculating sexual pleasure.
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>>44714571

D&D, any version of it, has always had the shittiest grappling rules from the very start.
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>>44714571
Pathfinder. It's all the problems with 3.5e plus it's harder to initiate with the Combat Maneuver system.
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>>44717754
Fantasy Craft has pretty functional grapple rules.
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>>44718016
I read that material component as
>A cord of 7 colons
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>>44717861
No you don't. You solve a quadratic equation by plugging in numbers and doing algebra, and don't need to factor.
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Alternatively, which system has the BEST grapple system? Something that allows for a great deal of things while also remaining easy to understand.
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>>44718177
Which system does it best is a good question. No RPG has a good grappling system. In Exalted 2nd edition, if one person is trained in grappling and the other isn't, the grappler wins as soon as they get a hold. Exalted 3rd is similar. So definitely not those games.
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>>44718486
Riddle of Steel's grappling system was complicated, but so was the entire system. And once you figured it out, it was pretty flexible and while abstracted, generally provided some realistic results.

The problem is that grappling is simply too complicated a concept to represent in a fluid fashion while still having the kind of results you'd expect.
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>>44718177
GURPS Technical Grappling is the most in-depth grappling system I've seen, but it's written in a by-wrestlers-for-wrestlers way where someone with no idea how wrestling works (most RPG players) will struggle with understanding the system. On top of that, there's so much math involved that you'll want (and the developers provide) a spreadsheet calculator to play with it. Lastly, the book is an example in how NOT to layout a book for readability.
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>>44714571
WWE.
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So is grappling STR or AG based? Or perhaps WS or something like that?
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Also, can the captcha stop showing food all the time, it almost 02 here and I get so hungry.
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>>44718631
I'm not talking about most accurate here, because GURPS or Pheonix Command will usually almost always win. I mean what game has a system that when you say "I'm gonna do x move related to wrestling" and the GM doesn't have to look something up, but is still able to provide a semi accurate answer.
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>>44718818
It would be a combo of STR, AGI, and some other stuff.

You'd want a pain threshold tolerance in there as well, since there's shit you can do that isn't really damaging, but hurts like a bitch, and being able to resist it is important.
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>>44714687
0 to femdom in four posts
Disgusting
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>>44718939
Do you know how hard it is to find boy vs girl wrestling where the guy is the one winning, by the way?

Huge fucking pain in the ass.
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>>44718960
Probably because they're all fetish shit
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>>44718986
I mean, pretty much all wrestling videos that aren't for sport or like, Pro Wrestling are fetish shit, so yea.
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>>44718960
Just find some legit grappling drills or tapes.

You know how often woman martial artists get their faces blasted with ball sweat?
Everyday.
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>>44718903
Sounds complicated. Perhaps the user can choose AG or STR depending on what he favours?

Fuck, stop showing me pancakes and cookies, stupid captcha.
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>>44719066
I mean, grappling is complicated as shit, that's why it's so infamous for having shitty rules systems.

But no, you need both to really work.
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>>44719066
>Perhaps the user can choose AG or STR depending on what he favours?
That's not how wrestling works. Agility/Dex/speed/whatever is only a small part of it. Strength, size, and weight make a much, much bigger deal than any other factor. After that it's skill in your wrestling techniques.
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>>44719091
It depends what kind of wrastlin' we're talking about hero. If it's the kind of wrestling that's about overpowering the person at the other end then it's definitely strength. If it's about off balancing your opponent then, well, strength isn't really that big of a deal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GJsld9IVjU
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>>44717754
>2nd edition aD&D grapple rules?
You mean the wrestling rules from the PHB?
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>>44718156
>facial charisma (except in darkness, or with a sack over the head)
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>>44717754
None of the the D&D games do, that's for sure.
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It's a shame this book turned out to be so impenetrable. It's got some cool stuff in it, like a fighting style for unarmed vampire honor duels revolving around draining the blood from your opponent.
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>>44719390
I'm not sure if the 1.2 version helped with penetrability.
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Dwarf Fortress.
>grapple head with teeth
>grapple lower body with teeth
>at the same time
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>>44719416
It did not. That is v1.2. All it did was clear up a few mistakes. Nothing short of a full rewrite can fix it.
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>>44719337
5e has okay grappling rules, though they're quite simple.
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>>44719474
Grapple teeth with teeth.
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>>44719570
Ah, Dwarven kissing.
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>>44718631
>On top of that, there's so much math involved that you'll want (and the developers provide) a spreadsheet calculator to play with it
Bull fucking shit stop lying out your ass. In TG, you roll for control points and track them, it's literally the same as rolling for damage and taking off HP. Higher control penalizes DEX and STR to the point of uselessness (pinning) or can be spent to help your roll/set damage cap for wrenches, locks, and throws. That's fucking it. It manages to be less abstract than most grappling systems while also being more intuitive due to it being more like regular combat with control point rolls ≈ damage rolls instead of weird binary conditions.

If you want to bitch about mass-based moves being too crunchy and being only for people more knowledgeable about wrestling, that's fine; that's why those rules are extra optional in an optional splat. But pull your head out of your ass and stop giving a system an undeserved bad reputation for MATH: TEH GA3M using outdated memes that applied to vehicle creation rules an edition and two decades ago.

11/10 yes I'm mad as fuck.
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>>44719829
>In TG, you roll for control points and track them, it's literally the same as rolling for damage and taking off HP. Higher control penalizes DEX and STR to the point of uselessness (pinning) or can be spent to help your roll/set damage cap for wrenches, locks, and throws. That's fucking it
Nice summary Doug Cole, but you've oversimplified it. You roll for control points but then you also have implied control points based on areas you aren't grabbing, all of which are found with different formulas and thresholds; you track the individual limbs you use to grapple and adjust your STrength according to a table; each way you listed to spend control points is different.
You're real fucking mad Doug, stop defending your game on anonymous image boards.
>stop giving a system an undeserved bad reputation for MATH: TEH GA3M using outdated memes that applied to vehicle creation rules an edition and two decades ago.
This isn't an outdated meme, Doug. This supplement earns its reputation for being too mathy.
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>>44714687
>fails to hook the legs or sweep and instead allows her to sprawl
>allows girl to gain a mounted position over his head without making any attempt to buck her or escape from that position.
>allows her to control his arms and eventually pin his arms.

Jesus this guy just lost bad at grappling.
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>>44721488
I think getting caught was part of his plan.
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>>44719607
Nope, skeletal kissing
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>>44714687
this is porno
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>>44717754
>Which system has functional grapple rules at all?

Well, in Mongoose Traveller it's pretty simple to do and pretty effective. If you're attacked and don't have a gun on you, sometimes your best bet is to rush the dude and hope to grab him before you get shot.
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>>44716405
>Raping in FATAL is never mandatory
Raping in fatal is like being flashy in anima, grimderp in 40k and overpowered in exalted.
If you ain't sticking your dick in holes you ain't playing fatal.
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>>44716955
I'm pretty sure that one is realistic.
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>>44717754
Anima.

it's also viable.
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>>44721488
He has no combat training what so ever. And she has.
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>>44722326
If it is I demand sauce.
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>>44714571
>Which system has the worst grappling rules?
luta livre

(only brasileiros will get this)
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>>44719546
5e grappling a shit
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>>44715310

I feel like FATAL would be far more interesting as a ruleset for a roguelike rather than something that you have to waste your time actually playing at the table.
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>>44725675

I have no combat training. My most recent ex took five years of tae-kwon-doe as a teenager and one morning, she told me that she could beat me up. I laughed, and said that she was dreaming.

We went to the park, separated about ten feet, she said "Come at me", and I tackled her to the ground.

Motherfucker outweighs her by thirty five pounds at the absolute least, this is scripted.
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>>44719261
>always adjusts her hairband after throwing a man 10 feet
1933/10
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>>44715310
who the fuck writes this shit and says "yes this is an acceptable thing that i will publish and sell to a large crowd"

i'm uncomfortable just by reading it, i can't even bear to imagine what it must be like to be in the presented situation at a table
Thread replies: 88
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