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>The races with the toughest codex units in the game belong to the Tau and Eldar, both races that favour speed, technology, and stealth
Why is this allowed?
THIS THREAD NOW BELONGS TO THE IMPERIUM OF MAN!
It's a good question, in that if the justification for ELDUR BESHT is their high tech then Necrons should be even more capable of outclassing everyone.
They actually took away the C'tan's Hellstorm D weapon though.
I have a question about Cadian wargear. Can I take a piece of Cadian wargear even if I am not using the formation, but my army is Cadian modeled? Also, can I bring a Taurox and still have it be a Cadian army?
Superior technology to 95% than the stuff Orks and Imperium field. Heck, even when the Admech own troops were deployed against the Tau, the text still said that the Tau had the tech advantage.
No, but considering that Orks literally throw gigantic rocks at worlds that have military installations on them all the time to achieve victory, I think my argument still stands.
>le corrupt ethereal face
Farsight enclave waifu or bust
Expand their race to have other specialist classes, or give them more weapon versatility on the field.
Really I think they could be a good unit if given the right weapons, and if they expanded on the race's background more that would be awesome.
all of the yes
>put them in a codex that isn't filled to the brim with some of the most efficient units in the game
Sorta, still wouldn't take them in IG, AdMech, or Chaos.
What if the earth caste gave fire warriors power fists?
Based on how GW are doing codexes now with supplements and all I think this'd be a pretty nice plan for CSM.
Two separate codices, one for the Traitor Legions and one for Renegade Chapters.
TL codex brings back all the lovely cult armies, maybe each legion gets CAD-like formation and 1 or 2 other specific formations.
Renegade Chapters codex has limited access to magicks, marks and daemon princes but can steal the loyalist gadgets like razorbacks and centurions.
Would anyone else like anything specific from a new CSM codex?
Ork Mercenaries, yeah...
Remember when Orks had a small ammount of non-war culture and the Imperials had some fringe interaction with Xenos?
1st and 2nd ed fluff was best. Can we just go back to that and staple in some goofier versions of Tau and Necrons to fit the tone without invalidating their model ranges?
>Why are we still here?
>Just to suffer?
>Every night I can feel my age and the pewter....even the mould lines... the codex I lost...the players I've lost....won't stop hurting...It's like they're all still playing...you feel it too, don't you?
>I'm going to make them give back our army....
>Check your codex anon, it states outright that tyranids suck against tau.
Don't pretend this is actually a problem guys: They need to be able to fuck them up with their tech so they can stand for a little while against their insurmountable numbers. Without an advantage, the first Hive Fleet to hit Tau space would wipe out the entire race.
Well, they're already I2 so unweildy wouldn't hurt.
I'd love to see an assault broadside, swap out the missile pods for dual Onagers and fluff it as Farsight being a crazy bloodthirsty bastard.
Yeah seriously, I much prefer the concept behind thriving ork cities that are straight out of Victorian London when not on a WAAAAGH!. There's much more room for ork focused stories that way as well which is definitely needed I feel.
Plus ogryns in the codex, aww yiss.
Shut the fuck up faggot, literally copy+paste from last thread.
>Why are we still here?
You aren't, you are irrelevant
>Just to suffer?
You are choosing to.
>feel it too, don't you?
No my models are all plastic besides finecast HQs.
>I'm going to make them give back our army....
You wont do shit but jerk it to 40k porn and play some RPG
>What if the earth caste gave hammerheads pilots xv02 suits?
>What if the earth caste gave every criris iridium plating?
Probably future developments, along with Shadowsun's suit becoming the new standard Stealth Suit and fire warriors getting all rail rifles.
Not on the tabletop mind, just next gen tech in the fluff.
I've talked to some guys IRL and have finalized my 1000 point Smelldar list.
Farseer with Singing Spear
20 Guardians, 2 Scatter Lasers, Warlock
10 Guardians, 1 Scatter Laser, Warlock
10 Guardians, 1 Scatter Laser
4 Warp spiders, 1 warp spider exarch - Spinneret Rifle
Vaul's Wrath Support Battery - 3 Vibro Cannons
Wraithlord, 2 flamers, brightlance, ghostglaive.
It fits how I want to play, seems like fun to play and doesn't see too ridiculously bullshit.
If I expand to larger points, Ill probably give the Support Batterys the D weapons though.
Both 10 man guardians, rangers and support battery will camp the back, 1 of the ten man guardians will slowly move up the board leaving the rangers defensive near end game to grab an objective mid table or if maelstorm requires it, sniping with snipers, vibros and scatter laser while the 20 man guardians, warp spiders (who will deepstrike behind armour or monsters and glance/shoot it to death) and wraithlord will move up in a nice big blob and dakka the shit out of everything. Suggestions for physic spells for the Farseer? How's this look?
In my opinion the Tau are the ones that suffer the most the staleness of the setting.
A great part of their appeal is that they are the army in the middle of a technological revolution that will never reach it's higher results because to do that they need the setting to advance and reach the actual year 40'000
Technically that's the direction they're moving towards. Rail Rifles were superduper experimental weaponry back then, much like cyclic Ion Blasters were 1 per detachment.
As time goes on, tau tech advances enough that they make this shit more widespread. wouldn't be surprised in Fire Warriors got watered down Rail Rifles as a basic weapon (fluffed to be because of mass production issues),
Or they make another FW variant with all Rail Rifles. Breachers are Close quarters, Strikes are medium range gunline, then you have the rail snipers.
I actually think CSM'd be best if they were given a Chapter Tactics-esque system where you picked the 'theme' (Worship of the Big Four individually, Mix of all four, Chaos Undivided, Terror Tactics, Infiltration + Cults, etc) of your warband, with one theme applying to each of the legions. Renegades just pick whichever one applies most closely to their warband. The imperial solution of 400 different codexes is a bad one.
What the hell model is this? I notice it has psycannons and something converted out of plasticard. Maybe it's something custom, but is there a superheavy tank that can take psycannon sponsons?
Man I would love me some chapter tactics. ATM I keep running Crimson Slaughter CADs just for the Harbingers of the Tormented special rule being the closest thing to Chapter Tactics in CSM.
Every argument that applies to why CSM shouldn't have it applies just as strongly to why SM shouldn't have it. Hell, I'd be willing to bet there's more variation between a Word Bearers Warband and an Alpha Legion/Night Lords/Death Guard one than there are between the Imperial Fists and the Ultramarines.
Just makes no goddamn sense why they'd be removed.
+ HQ +
Company Command Squad [Flak Armour, 2x Veteran w/ Lasgun, 2x Veteran w/ Plasma Gun]
Chimera [Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser]
Company Commander [Close Combat Weapon, Flak Armour, HoC: Wrath of Cadia, Orders]
+ Troops +
Veterans [Grenadiers, Taurox, 7x Veteran w/ Lasgun, 2x Veteran w/ Plasma Gun]
Veteran Sergeant [Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol]
Veterans [Flak Armour for Squad, 7x Veteran w/ Lasgun]
Chimera [Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser]
Veteran Autocannon Team [Lasgun]
Veteran Sergeant [Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol]
+ Heavy Support +
Leman Russ Squadron
Battle Tank [Heavy Bolter]
Battle Tank [Heavy Bolter]
I have a 750 campaign game coming up next Saturday. My Vets that have a heavy weapon have relentless. I have to take 2 vets, 2 tanks and a CCS. Is there some point shifting that I can do to make this a more balanced list?
I agree that I'd love to see more ways to distinguish individual CSM armies, but I can understand people not wanting "Traitor Tactics" since that does make them more similar to SM.
I started playing CSM with the second 3rd edition and 4th edition codex so honestly I've never played with a cult army, but they sound really cool.
Even some kind of "Traitor Doctrines" style thing where you pick 2 bonuses and 1 downside would be cool.
When I started playing again last year I was initially playing Tau but I've since moved back to CSM, probably because they have really cool characterization.
Well, they can always introduce railguns as specialist weapons for firewarriors or make Markerlights lighter later on. In any case, the Tau have more urgency in developing higher tech when it comes to interstellar craft and weapons of mass destruction.
"Big guns" on wraithlords are overcosted and not of use once it's stuck in where it belongs, keep it cheap.
Why the wonky guardian squads?
DON'T blob you spider up near friendlies, enemies can use templates to target the other friendly and deny spider's flickerjump since they are not the target.
As for the farseer, Divination.
Eldar's own lore has a lot of offense spells that are best used from a jetbike.
I bet that breachers will increase the range of their blasters and get some close-combat weapon like tazers or something of the style. In any case, you want to keep infantry weapon reliable and cheap. Left the high-tech toys for bigger suits.
I think CSM should incorporate a bit of daemon randomness with the structure that SM provide, the way that the Path of Glory supplement allows you to create a warband seems like the type of thing that would be nice. I think we might see something closer to Tzeench, Nurgle and Slaneesh Daemonkin represent the individual gods with CSM being a mixed force; that, however, depends on if GW liked the way KDK played out.
>"Big guns" on wraithlords are overcosted and not of use once it's stuck in where it belongs
What do you recommend and why?
>Why the wonky guardian squads?
My original plan was 2 squads of 20, but I wasnt sure that would work. Is 2 squads of twenty preferable to a squad of 20 and 10 and 10?
>DON'T blob you spider up near friendlies
I might have worded that wrong, they'd deep strike from behind the enemy, a far away from my models, definitely more than the 12 inch scatter can reach them.
>Eldar's own lore has a lot of offense spells that are best used from a jetbike.
Shouldnt I only take a jetbike if I have jetbike troops? Is he still viable if I attach him to my guardians?
personally I would prefer both Legion Tactics and Warband Tactics, and players would have one or the other and not both
Legion tactics if taken would be a lot like SM Chapter tactics. They would be Death Guard, Thousand Sons, etc
Warband tactics would be more free form. Like pick two or three choices from a chart and each choice would have drawbacks as well as bonuses.
I'm OK with randomness in the daemonkin supplements but please don't bring it to the main army they are bad enough already
In my opinion it would end up being a disaster by a balance point of view
Yeah, I know that the game isn't balance anyway, but there's no reason to make it worse
It would just end up with many almost useless combination and a couple of gamebreaking ones (like, if memory serves me right, I heard the Iron Warriors rules were in the 3.5 codex period)
I don't know how much I'd like more randomness. There's already the Helbrutes Crazed roll, Possessed's whatever-it's-called roll, Chaos Spaw-the tentacley thing's Mutated Beyond Reason roll and the entire Chaos Boon table.
We're (supposedly) not getting Daemonkin books, and I'm quite fine with that. That's just tethering too many books together around the same shit stat-lines.
Chaos doesn't necessarily mean "hurrr, random tables everywhere" and going that direction is stupid. It serves no purpose other than making the book worse unless you have some element of choice (Like the Daemon book) or literally every option is good in literally every situation.
Ability to pick choices from a chart is the reason the original Legion Tactics were removed, iirc.
Yeah I kinda veered off with my thoughts there, I think CSM should be more SM-like while DK codicies should bring in daemons and their randomness. I'm personally a fan of chapter tacitcs for CSM with aditional flavour coming from the formations but I know not everyone else is a fan of that.
I have no idea if it was, I assume it was a moderate success since it's a pretty solid army but I don't have any statistics.
>Want to abuse newly found Ork strategy of Blitz Brigade turn 1 charge in a 1500 point game
>Blitz Brigade is 575 points.
that is why I was suggesting the drawbacks and bonuses tied together instead choosing your own drawbacks -- it keeps players in check
alternatively Warbands might do nothing special, but have discounts on wargear or more transport options or stuff like that to reflect how they haven't been sitting around in the warp for 10000 years
don't forget that if you want to guarantee a useful warlord trait you have to pay the 160 point and HQ slot tax
>What do you recommend and why?
2 flamers, sword, go forth and destroy without breaking the budget.
>My original plan was 2 squads of 20, but I wasn't sure that would work. Is 2 squads of twenty preferable to a squad of 20 and 10 and 10?
Since you have a Warlock to buff the units, yes 2x20 guardians with buffs beats 20+10 with buffs and 10 without, in my opinion at least
>I might have worded that wrong, they'd deep strike from behind the enemy, a far away from my models, definitely more than the 12 inch scatter can reach them.
Aight, just making sure, lost my own to a s6 ap3 template shot through another unit yesterday.
>Shouldn't I only take a jetbike if I have jetbike troops? Is he still viable if I attach him to my guardians?
That's why I said Divination, Eldars own lore is best used with a highly mobile platforms or largeish units, remember he can also joing your battery for twinlinking and other stuff.
Formation members within 6" of the tank has a 4+ cover save.
Yes, but when you're up against a LOT of that inferiour technology, your advantages count for much less.
But randomness is FUN! anon! Look at these FUN! situations that can turn up in the game:
>Roll poorly on the chaos boon table, warlord becomes a chaos spawn
>Roll poorly on instinctive behaviour table, half of hormagaunt unit wiped out
>Roll poorly on mob rule table, several orks killed
>Roll poorly on ork weapon strength, fire S1 shots that do no damage
Meanwhile, the tau don't get to have FUN! with situations like:
>Shoot plasma rifle boosted with markerlights
>2+ to hit
>2+ to wounds
>No armour saves allowed
>No cover saves allowed
>Each shot is almost an autokill
How DULL! is that! Who'd want that predictability, eh?
So maybe formations would be a better choice then?
For example an Iron Warriors Warband, basically a CAD with +1 HS choice but mandatory 1 HS. Maybe needs a Warpsmith. Bonuses to killing buildings, reducing cover saves and blowing up vehicles.
I'm not sure any sort of differentiation from loyalists is possible when 80% of our codex is "loyalists but worse". You'd need a complete model redo, with nothing left over except maybe the default marines.
CADs for every traitor legion would be ok I guess, but still sounds like a poor way to represent them and also even more of a pipe dream than Legion Tactics again.
This is the most recent tournament list I know of that won something. He went 5-0, including against Eldar. As you guessed, he was using Zhard.
It's 5x av 14 tranports with 4 hull points, capacity for 20 and access to a poor mans battlecannon.
You can have them all full of slugga boys and a PK nobs, a warboss with a lucky stikk and a klaw of his own for ~1500 points.
Can't do much to AV 14, but it'll be a blast and can make most armies look twice.
RAW that means First player's first turn.
So if you go second you can.
How many fucking times are we going to have to explain this rule.
It says first turn, instances of "turn" are player turns unless specified in the rule. Therefore if you are going second on the first turn you can charge.
Scout rule states that the scouting unit cannot charge, the Battlewagons are the ones scouting. The units inside the Battlewagon therefore can charge, if you are going second on the first turn.
Would love to see this list if you've got any floating about.
First turn RAW means first player turn so if you go second you can charge.
Same question posed, you got any list in the 1500 point range? Feel like with the Blitz you're painted into 4th edition tactics of mass power klaws.
Wasn't whining, at least not from a stats perspective. I don't even own one of the stupid things. Just saying that the idiotic randomness is creeping everywhere.
Everything about the Stormsurge's stats are a clusterfuck of stupidity, regardless of the final result being OP. It reads like they just threw random numbers together with no design logic.
Has anyone got that new IG battleforce formation? I'm yet to see it circulated.
There are rumors about Tyranids this quadrimestre and a single rumor, but from a source that was right 100% of times for Space Wolves (we don't know what, if it means a model "Tyranid-like" or a complete remake of the codex) for february
>Same question posed, you got any list in the 1500 point range?
I play 1850 myself so not really.
1 russ, 1 commissar, 1 heavy weapon team, one infantry squad
Yes, CSM are weird in that their whole identity is like, nega-marines but marines have so many armies that they now do everything. So what are they supposed to do? I guess Warp Talons are sort of a suggestion of what they could be.
I just like the super rad shit like Daemon Princes and Heldrakes, basically the stuff you'd put on a heavy metal album cover, but I don't really know how to translate that into troops aside from Possessed, who aren't really dakka enough for my tastes.
what you see in the picture is how it is fielded
that particular extreme yes
I like chaos terminators, for example, but I don't like to use them like loyalist terminators because they aren't as good as loyalist terminators. Instead they make great units for either suicide combi weapon squads or else for bullying isolated units
I like possessed. I like chosen. I like autocannon havocs.
Don't get me wrong, I like cultists too. But they should be our backbone, not our whole army.
I heard rumors that they were making another new unit at the time of the codex release, but in the end it wasn't released because there were problems with the moulds/the pieces couldn't be composed right/something like that
Someone else heard of this or it was my subconscious that invented it to calm my need of Wulvens?
Yeah I agree, I like chosen and autocannon havocs too. DESU, I've never fielded possessed. I like that chaos termies come in squads of 3 min, because it's different and tells you something about the army.
Throughout my time here I've heard dozens of rumors with one thing in common, the death of Slaanesh, Whether it's Cegorach coming out of hiding to kill it or Tau somehow paying for all it's plot armor and putting the bitch down themselves. What I'm interested in is how would it affect everyone in the universe if it happened (more specially The Emperor's Children and the Great Game/The Warp.) What do you guys think would happen?
Yesh, Wyches are squishy t3 melee oriented guys with only 1 haywire gernade when everyone in the squad used to have them, at str 3 6+ save. Kabalites have long range poisoned shots at a better armour save and benefit more for raiders and venoms, which is how you should be playing Deldar.
He struck down them for January, but the other rumors were just saying Q1.
I'm not saying "Tyranids will come out for sure", just that they can still come out, just in a later period like March
This is how I would do it, although you could drop a few things, Extra Armour is essential to it however if you ask me.
"Blitz Brigade" (675pts)
5x Battlewagon (135pts)
2x Big Shoota, Extra Armour, Reinforced Ram
Warboss Mega Armour
3- 17x Boy(Shootas), Nob PK BP
>I just like the super rad shit like Daemon Princes and Heldrakes, basically the stuff you'd put on a heavy metal album cover, but I don't really know how to translate that into troops aside from Possessed, who aren't really dakka enough for my tastes.
The problem there is that most armies, including the Imperium, are trying to be album covers.
I don't have it saved, but find that pic with an Inquisitor, an IG general, a SM captain, and some other dude, and there's like 155 skulls in the background.
baka senpai, desu
>Extra Armour is essential to it however if you ask me.
I never roll ones when I have it though
Extra Armour is for reducing Crew Stunned (temporary immobilization) to Crew Shaken... the Reinforced Rams are mandatory for the formation
and after I immobilized my Tankbusta Wagon on turn 1 ive never left home without them
Humans also had true, sentient AI for over 10,000 years before they started totally wrecking shit and doing their own thing.
The Tau have only had that level of tech for a relatively short period of time, and have yet to actually develop true, sentient AI. They have AI's currently, but they're much more equivalent to dogs in their intellectual capacity (they form habits and can perform their tasks quite well, but they lack abstract reasoning and the ability to ask "why?").
>There's a Sisters Stormlord in a cabinet at my local GW
That's not improbable, though. Sisters tend to get that good shit when they want it, even stuff they don't get on the tabletop like Valkyries and Thunderhawks.
Why does the inquisitor have a hawk? What's the hourglass for? Why is he as wide as the Ultramarine, even taking into account perspective? Why is the tech-priest's servo arm just carrying around a skull? Why is there a yellow furry creature growing out of the Ultramarine's dick? Why are they all posing, walking towards the camera?
A lot of Ork logic with this model.
>more fins means better flyin!
Psyber eagle, does some shit.
Sanctified sand keeps true time to aid when your perceptions are attacked by daemonic influences.
Repairs/Updates to the servo-skull.
Try not to be a fucking retard
>Why does the inquisitor have a hawk?
The double-headed eagle is the symbol of the Imperium, so I suppose the inquisitor want to represent the origin of his powers. Also, double-headed eagles make rocking pets
>What's the hourglass for?
Together if all the skulls, it represent the whole "dying" theme the Imperium has in it's iconography. You know, "Serve the Emperor today, because tomorrow you will be dead"
>Why is he as wide as the Ultramarine, even taking into account perspective?
The Ordo Malleus inquisitor (I think) can take Terminator Armor
>Why is the tech-priest's servo arm just carrying around a skull?
It's a broken servo-skull that he needs to repair later
>Why is there a yellow furry creature growing out of the Ultramarine's dick?
Space Wolves aren't the only one that wear animal pelts
>Why are they all posing, walking towards the camera?
They aren't posing. They are walking with probably hundreds of kilos of things, they ever walk slowly, like they were posing, or they drag their feet, and they are too important to drag their feet
>MFW some faggot stole my post and applied it to Sisters
No shot fired, no fire at all actually, not even an explosion, no heads being cleaved or blood spilled no thunderstorms, dinosaurs, mutants, hostile cyborgs, daemons.
Fuck the eagle isn't even eating an eyeball or anything.
Given that it tricks sensors from Spaceships, I believe you. They should make an entire fleet of these things.
Because GW decided everyone should be able to do everything so now everyone needs MC's not just Daemons, Tyranids and like 1 Ork unit.
An Eldar Wraith-construct army should be one of the toughest in the game in all fairness but riptides, stormsurge's and babby carriers are definitely things that should not exist.
>Start Collecting Tau! box has eight drones along with everything else
Ha ha HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>Dying race with limited forces struggling to surive
>Represented by having bargin deals point values on everything.
Table shouldn't even bloody exist.
>Snapfire can't move
>Lose your weapons and become useless in certain walker cases
>Lose your ability to move full stop
>Blow yourself up even from full HP and a single pen.
Moronic. Want to know why Superheavies are so good? Because they ignore that piece of shit.
What is the difference between a walker and a MC in the fluff? Walkers are machines? So why are a bunch of Tau stuff MCs? And MCs get FNP and IW and can't explode with the shitty hull point system.
I miss the days when IG had something special about them.
Army know for fuck-hueg tanks?
>Eldar get flying ones that do 2-3x the damage for half the price
Army known for artillery?
>GCs and MCs and Missile spam across the board
>Skimmers/flyers everywhere that carry better weapons
>Using AV in this edition
Army that relies on moving men from cover to cover with little in the way of invul/fnp?
>Implying you would get those saves anyways.
That can pen it and have ap2 or better.
Because they are immune to anything not designed to kill tanks, and MCs can die to conscripts.
It's just a matter of points balance.
Dreadnaughts have buttons and levers?
Deff Dreads are literally Orks welded and hardwired into their machines.
Maulerfiends and Soulgrinders are daemon imbued machines, doesn't get more "interfaced" than that.
>MCs can die to conscripts
>Vehicles are immune to small arms fire
>the VD chart is fair
What MC can REASONABLY die to lasguns? Most have T5 so you wound on 6, and some kind of invule save.
And no, in assault hitting on rear armor means that most basic meele units can get a pen, and then IK it on a 6.
Do Tau actually have any weaknesses? I know they're bad at melee but I've tried countless CSM lists and they never survive to get into melee, and outshooting them nearly seems to be an option.
>It's just a matter of points balance.
Having random and punishing charts on half of the shit in 40k isn't a problem, only that they are often costed like they don't have those faults.
>immune to anything not designed to kill tanks
Are scatterlasers designed to kill tanks now?
>and MCs can die to conscripts.
s3 is useless against t6.
And krak grenades work on both walkers and MC's
Be mad, but be factual.
>What MC can REASONABLY die to lasguns?
You can finish off a riptide with lasguns, can't do that to a predator, not saying that they are pointed correctly, just that the different weakness do exist.
I just think the idea of a unit that big having a jet-pack and flying around is stupid.
It would be ok if it was some obscure super-gundam kinda deal that tau only pull out in special situations, but you can now take like 10 in a list if you want to.
Actually yeah I forgot they aren't jet-pack units.
They do look kinda retarded though.
I think they should be MC's rather than GC's though.
If a unit needs extra stabilizers to stop it falling over, how the fuck is it able to stomp anything?
Actually, I think that IS the problem.
>GCs/MCs roll for saves
>AV rolls for additional dmg.
GW sure knows how much better it is to be a GC, thats why the stormsurge/ ta'unar are GCs instead of SHWs.
>GCs/MCs roll for saves
>AV rolls for additional dmg.
But this is only a problem because they are similarly costed. If a Riptide costs more than a landraider, it makes sense for it to be better, etc.
I think the table should just be scaled back really.
1-2 is nothing, 3-4 is crew shaken, 5-6 is stunned, 7 is immobilized, 8 is explodes.
But give certain weapons a bonus for rolling on the table - so melta could have +2 from AP1 and another +1 from the melta rule.
GW's eldar/tau codex target audience.
>bad in melee
My stormsurge has killed just as many points in combat than he has with shooting.
My riptide has also killed bloodthirsters and primarks in combat.
They are no push overs
>Or just git-gud and buy some useful fucking units.
Jesus is this how disconnected Top Tier Codex players are
>Please inform me why it is a piece of shit? There is nothing it is bad at.
You just answered your own question.
Oh and add to that the rules being shittily constructed and weird, the rock paper scissors meta mentality it helps encourage as a result of said rules, the crap appearance and complete lack of fluffiness.
>My riptide has also killed bloodthirsters and primarks in combat.
How the fuck?
Were they nearly dead upon reaching combat?
A riptide hitting a Bloodthirster on a 5+ with like 2 attacks has killing one from full?
>Marker lights dont dmg and you shouldn't get saves!
>You can also get great saves by forcing your units in certain locations that are never constant per game and paying 15 points on
>its only fair I get to jink whenever I want
>Im gonna use my 2 markerlights to remove your save :^)
Judging the quality of a rules set by one of its worst codex is just stupid, compare it to a genuine mid tier like IG. It's like saying Sisters are OP because they have access to more saves than you. The Ork codex needs to be better, not everything needs to be brought down to Orks.
>tfw started with chaos daemons
>tfw switched to necrons until new codex is released
>both one off lucky instances
Its not about luck its about being consistent. Im not talking about a 1 off "its so lucky to kill this thing in combat" its consistency takes off units in combat that you would think "it shouldnt survive".
The only bad thing the riptide/Stormsurge etc have is the fact they have WS:2, WS really doesnt effect all that much.
It's just mathhammer vs. anecdotal slapfight, or waac/casual pissing contest, or bored nerds with nothing going on in their lives.
Choose any one or all and't you'll be right 9/10.
Run a black legion list with a Flying Daemon Prince with that ML4 Psyker relic.
Swoop into range of all of the tau and use the power it gives you to unleash an 18" aura of rape on their army.
It will ignore cover and thus stealth-suits and also has blind, which with i2 can suck balls.
Try it and report back.
Need to cause 6 wounds to get 1 wound through on average. Similarly, only 1 in every 6 hits wounds. So you'd need 36 hits to generate 1 wound.
Given that the standard Guardsman has BS3, that means 72 shots to cause 1 wound, on average.
>tfw I pretend to be one of these 'Tau faggots' to work guys like this and I play IG
Wait? You're saying you shouldn't judge the quality of a rule by how it affects the least "special" unit in the game? Why?
Surely how it effects the weakest unit should be a base line for adjusting it, so you don't have to have super special rules in every instance to mitigate just how powerful they are.
Do you not get that?
>"It's just a real representation in the fluff!"
>"this is a FUN game! You should be HONOURED that you lost against my army!1!1!1"
>"Honestly, you guys are prob bad at tactics"
>"None of you guys even have friends. You should play with real people and learn that the game is about having fun while losing"
You know I recently said to a GW employee that I love the look of the T'aunar and would love to own one, but would be worried about being unable to find a circumstance where it's actually playable.
His response was to say he thought it would be fair to play because it costs 600 points to play.
Dude knows full well I almost exclusively do pickup games. I'm in every week looking for them.
Were the Eldar always broken, or is this the result of the later codex?
I play Orks and CSM...
Use FW stuff.
Don't take any of the shit formations.
Here's a list of the good ones:
>Mogroks Boss Boyz
>Kaptin Badrukk's flash gitz
Other formations can be fun but generally suck.
The problem with Ork players is they aren't orky enough so they don't want to think outside the codex units and they don't respect the dakka enough so they just want to think of ways to make assault work.
>don't fucking bother
Also, pics of army with timestamp or gtfo.
You're clearly playing with some shitty people.
Im more than happy to not take my Stormsurge if my opponent doesnt wanna face it
maybe you should do that instead of running back to /tg/ to moan abouts it?
>It's hard to watch something you love destroy itself...To see it fall apart....Shit codexes seem so distance, detatched, someone elses struggle in some far away FLGS...
>It's not until it's our codex, at our FLGS, that we realise how bad it really is, all of us, all of this...
>When it leaked, when it came down, it came down hard, and we fell... we buried ourselves in anger and fear....in the instinct to WAAC.....
>And the real truth is...noone watched, nobody wanted to see, shit codexes are invisible, people turn away from it, they switch armies if they can
>And it's hard knowing the you belong here, that your purpose lies in amongst all this pain
>But somebody has to play the army...to pick it up...to push back....to put the first piece together...to put all the pieces together
Babbies have always cried on both sides of the table.
OK, from a modeling and gaming standpoint, what could possibly be good about the Stormsurge? Do you think It looks good, or plays in an interesting way? I am genuinely confused as to why anyone would buy the thing.
We have this fucking kid who just graduated high school, went online found the most cheese Newcron lists, bought all of it, and now gloats when he beats people who weren't handed 800$ for not being a piece of shit.
He then bought some dark angels. Made them 2+ reroll jink bikers and complains when he losses because he "can't play necrons cause people complain".
Fucking cunt makes me hate this game.
Wingnuts flier formation too.
>Kaptin Badrukk's flash gitz
I love the models but fuck if i'd buy a large formation of expensive models with 6+ saves.
Token size just for the looks, or even as loota stand-ins.
I love the stormsurge from a tactical point of view.
Not tabletop wise, but argument wise.
Notice how fast the whole
>tau suits are MCs/GCs to show how more articulate and agile they are
>They are MCs and GCs because they dont know where the suit stops and the Pilot begins.
I converted my a bit because I wasnt a fan of the default model. So modelwise I sort of agree.
Rule wise its great, people seem to forget the past year Tau have had. constantly being ran down by deathstars and stuggling against knights, now tau have an answer and its great!
I agree the rules for it are bent but I only usually if my opponent is also bringing a bent list, so I have no problems using it.
Nope, 5+ from ID, oh wait 6+ cause I SHOT THE MEDIC FIRST.
Probably not allowed or something. I haven't played 40k in like 4 years, but I was thinking of bringing out my dudes and playing, but I want to check out the codexes before I commit to purchasing them. Any good torrents?
2nd edition eldar were top tier, if that's what you're asking. And when tournaments started getting big with 3rd, they were the absolute best.
Only time they've been even remotely mediocre was with 5th edition.
>Wingnuts flier formation too.
Didn't include it because I personally don't use flyers and there aren't many at all in my meta so I don't really consider flyers.
Yeah, MC really helps them out. With a squad of MC weapons it works out kind of better than a single one, as you get 1 reroll per model. No opponent is actually gonna make you roll each ork's shot individually just encase 1 makes all 3 shots and doesn't use his mastercrafted.
220 points is a lot for a squad of 10, but as long as you clear away / distrupt any S8 blasts before their transport gets blown to shit, they can be pretty durable with 2 wounds each.
>he doesn't know about this shit meme
I hope this is Socratic irony at play here.
GW has never 'trolled' these threads. It's always some anon pretending and jokingly doing it. It comes in many forms, from going "No, but go buy it ;)" or "Here: [insert link to GW]" or whatever.
If you want the codexes, use the Megaupload.
Well when you say outshoot like that you make it sounds stupid.
Obviously, as Orks, you aren't gonna sit there and go toe to toe with shooty armies.
The main benefit you have are more bodies for cheap, more vehicles for cheap and probably the biggest selection of transports in the game.
With a little help from FW you can make units that are cheaper and more effective than counter-parts in other codices.
Gun trukk's are probably the most notorious example of this, but big trakk's can made into orky Leman Russ equivalents.
The main problems with these units is force-org limits which is where formations and cheap troops come in.
Ork Boyz are good units, but unless you're running green tide or some kind of mini-deathstar unit you should be running them as MSU so anyone wanting to shoot them off the table will have a bad time.
What's your playgroup like? I play with my two buddies, one plays super aggressive all the time and the other kind of loafs around. Even though we've been playing for a long time the lax player still seems to not know basic rules, like how ws and bs works
Kinda makes me want to venture out to my lgs but my stuff isn't that quality yet
550 altogether, but it's still 220 for 1 squad.
Character is nothing but a tax though. He literally costs 1/5th of the formation and is basically a Flash Git +1. I'd pay like 60 points for him, max.
Because people like to show off their hard worked models? Maybe, just maybe they would like the work and effort put into their models be treated in kind with a game with rules with the same kind of care+affection
I play with my brother and wife.
Brother doesn't paint / build / take care of his models, just buys multiple armies and fields them. Mains GK's / Nids / Chaos.
Wife plays DE and is pretty brutal with bike and venom spam.
I play Orks.
40k is a complete package.
There's game, there social activity and there's modelling.
It's game aspect is the weakest part.
It's modelling aspect is solid but there's more detailed, customizable AND cheaper modelling kits out there.
The social aspect with friends or perfect strangers is *ideally* it's strongest point.
Not too sure if it is too late in the thread to post but I will give it a shot. Probably a month or more ago I finished assembling my small Space Marine force. I haven't done anything outside of prime them grey much to the chagrin of my opponent. Still can't decide on which chapter to use and have been bouncing between Imperial Fists and Black Templar. Yellow and Black both seem like really hard paint jobs to pull of well, but besides the point. I have also hood that UltraMarines are the strongest chapter in the Codex, and I see why but have no tried them.
What I am working with is the simplest 500pt list I could make without devoting myself to one Chapter.
>HQ: Bolt Pistol, Power Fist Captain - 115
>10 Tactical Marines with a Grav Gun and Combi Grav in a rhino - 200
>9 Tactical Marines with a Melta Gun and Combi Melta - 181 (this is the Rhino my HQ goes with to get close for the powerfisting.)
What to add? Where to go? What units can I add with staying Chapter Neutral besides troops?
>The social aspect with friends or perfect strangers is *ideally* it's strongest point.
I most definitely agree, talking models, strategy, and fluff with mates is defiantly what keeps my buying shit.
>Implying there has been any real worthwhile fluff in any publication from gw in the last 5 years.
I'm sorry that "My stuff is better then yours and deserves to win because fluff says so" doesn't appeal to everyone.
Worth getting back into?
Orks dont look any better than they were before. I also had Blood Angels and Eldar
From my quick reading, sounds like eldar is OP, but just bike council?
>The main benefit you have are more bodies for cheap
Tyranids get cheaper bodies than us, with Fearless to boot. When was the last time you saw a Nid player running huge numbers of Gaunts?
>more vehicles for cheap
SM get better vehicles for free.
>Gun trukk's are probably the most notorious example of this
10/10/10 single shot Str 6 Ap4 large blast at 55 points vs 12/10/10 4 twin-linked Str 4 Ap6 small blast with Shred and Ignore Cover for 65 points. Very, very debatable whether the Ork version is better.
>but big trakk's can made into orky Leman Russ equivalents.
You mean the stock standard Russ that no-one takes? Score. It also comes out at 120 points for 2 less points of front and side armour and being open topped.
>Ork Boyz are good units,
No, they're not. They have zero survivability and aren't Fearless any more so they take casualties every time they fail a test, which they do 44% of the time. Of course you could give them survivability in which case their supposed benefit, cheapness, vanishes. A 30 man squad with 'eavy armour, a Nob with PK and BP, shootas and a Painboy is 420 points. And it'll still get shot to hell and back trying to make it across the board.
>With a little help from FW you can make units that are cheaper and more effective than counter-parts in other codices.
Name one. About the only one I can remotely think of is the Kustom Stompa, and having a better Super-Heavy walker is like winning the prize for having the best shit.
>for 500 pts sm can take little army
>you can take only single shitty stormsurge with upgrades
It isn't fair!
I'd go Imperial Fists simply because they synergise great with Sternguard and Centurion Devs as well as regular tactical squads, your bread and butter of an infantry based SM force.
No. Eldar are the top army atm. Everything they have is viable and they have some insanely good units like the Wraithknight. Blood Angels are the worst Marines variant, below even GK's. Orks aren't good either, but have probably the best AA in game.
>Fuck fluff, balance first.
>I'm sorry that "My stuff is better then yours and deserves to win because fluff says so" doesn't appeal to everyone.
Chill anon, daemons be random, necrons don't die, hoards do die, etc. I disagree with you logic, not that Tau (and other sues) don't need better fluff. I just care about the theme of shit, who gives a crap if you lose space-Yahtzee?
The optimizer who playess what he feels like and find a way to make them nasty to face, though lists and tactics.
The... punching bag, routinely pounded by every other player in the group unless he field his necrons on cheesemode, combo of bad luck and short sighted tactics.
Me, I play... concept lists, I get an idea, try to make it work and either win of bomb out, regardless It was an experience.
The WAAC'er who buys what's good, plays hard, usually wins against all but player 1, usually has rather bad luck too.
The Wannabe WAAC'er who buys every strong netlist, wins a fight against the punching bad and then gets stomped by everyone else because he can only ape the lists, not grasp the tactics, routinely "misreads" rules.
The Whiner, "I really wan to play but X", "My eldar are OP I can't play them", "My CSM are UP I can't play them" "I really wan tto start X army but I can't afford it" he skypes from his new s6 edge/Nvdia-shield while toking away and inhaling brand name snacks.
Imp Fists does sound good. I really want to field a painted army. However there is know way the model will turn out how I want to because I am a horrible painter so I will probably use one of these Successor Chapters. Leaning towards Subjugators.
This is just being purposefully ignorant. I'm not even gonna bother properly replying.
>Tyranids get cheaper bodies than us, with Fearless to boot. When was the last time you saw a Nid player running huge numbers of Gaunts?
the nids codex doesn't offer you gaunts with cheap special weapons in various different slots.
>10/10/10 single shot Str 6 Ap4 large blast at 55 points
Obviously you don't take the stock fucking load-out.
You're just making it clear you are a shitter who can't fucking read.
>A 30 man squad with 'eavy armour, a Nob with PK and BP, shootas and a Painboy is 420 points. And it'll still get shot to hell and back trying to make it across the board.
Maybe actually read what I put?
What part of this is MSU?
Carry on being a little shitter if you want anon, I don't give that much of a shit about someone as stupid as you.
I'm surprised I actually wrote that much in response so someone who said gun trukks are bad because lobba's suck.
Both the guardian and storm guardian decuricore are mid tier on their own.
Despite bladestorms power they are 12" guns on t3 5+ troops, 24" if you disregard cover and run all you can at the enemy.
War walkers and vypers are good but not easymode units.
Shining spears are almost downright bad and rangers are the same snipers as most armies get.
Autarch is as good as you build him to be.
Uh oh >>44699760 you upsetted /tg/s resident Forgeworld Ork cuck >>44700173. How dare you insult Gun wagons you filthy casual. Don't you know Dreadmob and Gunwagons are literally the best unit in the entire Ork codex.
The main problem arguing with shitters is that they use the fact they are shitters to prop up their arguments
>taking stock gun trukk loadout ever
>paying 4 points to give a fucking ork boy a 4+ armour save then complaining that they cost too much and still die easily
>thinks giving a unit survivability means adding on 20 models
>thinks a razorback is better than every ork vehicle
>thinks no one takes stock leman russ'
It would be fun to have everyone forced to wear a persistent identity for a day, just to see if the majority of shitposting and "new/returning player here" bait comes from a few assholes or it its a tendency.
why is the storm surge a monstrous creature but this isn't
We have over 20 players at out FLGS
Pretty much every army is represented, including sisters, DE, harlies and such. Played and win games too.
Then we have 4-5 other players, the seal clubbers. Min max 1850 printout WAAC tourney netlists every game and they hunt for new players to beat, since everyone who's a regular player simply avoids them. They've taken to visiting other stores in the area in recent months.
We have just about every faction covered. Everyone is extremely established in the game- some playing 40k since rogue trader days. They have massive armies and we have a bunch of guys who play. A normal game is two players on a team (4 people per game) and everyone is fielding 2,500 points. It was quite intimidating to get into considering I had a 1,500 point army to start with. I haven't been playing that long, so my army is smaller, it stinks because everyone knows my army. Its rough when I barely have any tanks (mostly infantry), and the other guys are fielding wraith titans and felblades. I'm one of the few people who has most of my army painted, some of the guys don't paint (or commission people to paint) their armies.