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How would you incorporate the lightsaber...
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Thread replies: 70
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How would you incorporate the lightsaber forms into a system of combat without some being patently better than others?
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>>44690800
Same way KOTOR2 did
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Shii-Cho Style (+4 Attack and +4 Defense when 3 or more enemies are within 6 squares)
Makashi Style (When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11. Shii-Cho Style cannot be used against this character.)
Soresu Style (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Ataru Style (+4 Attack if exactly 1 enemy is within 6 squares)
Djem So Style (Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker.)
Shien Style (When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11)
Niman Style (+2 Attack and +2 Defense while this character has more than half Hit Points remaining)
Makashi Style Mastery (When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11. Shii-Cho, Soresu, Ataru, and Niman Style cannot be used against this character.)
Soresu Style Mastery (When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Ataru Style Mastery (+4 Attack and Twin Attack if exactly 1 enemy is within 6 squares)
Djem So Style Mastery (Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker with +10 Damage.)
Shien Style Mastery (When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes damage equal to the prevented damage; save 11)
Niman Style Mastery (+4 Attack and +4 Defense while this character has more than half Hit Points remaining)
Juyo Style Mastery (Scores a critical hit on an attack roll of natural 17, 18, 19, or 20. Whenever this character scores a critical hit, make a save of 11; on a success, this character can make 1 immediate extra attack.)
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you have to keep it plugged to an energy source with a cable or it won't work
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>>44690800
Use the rock-paper-scissors scheme.

Also have each of them be better than the others against a specific enemy or in a specific situation
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>>44690800
You don't. Needing that level of "each minutia of difference gets its own simulationist subsystem instead of being abstracted" always has and always will lead to one or two of them being the good ones, and it only serves to limit role-play for those who also want to be mechanically effective.

I've never seen it work out any other way.
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Is form 6 the only one that lets you dual wield, or can they all dual wield but form 6 focuses on it?
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>>44690800
They already do that.
One is really good at just wailing on enemies, but leaves a ton of openings for opponents to fuck you over. Bonus to STR rolls, minus to DEX rolls
Another is really good at finesse work, but lacks physical power. Bonus to DEX, minus to STR
A third is tanky as fuck, good at deflecting and defense but not too good at anything else. Acts as a bonus to AC, Dodge, Parry and Deflect rolls (the minus is of course that it's not proactive at all)
Still a fourth is basically a barbarian's Rage, and you run the risk of tapping into the dark side. Bonus to DEX, bonus to STR, but every time you use it, roll on whatever the Force equivalent of Perils of the Warp would be
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>>44690930
Not that bad of a hindrance if a backpack unit was possible and it wasn't crazy huge. I'm thinking Ghostbusters style. Might be worth it in some settings.
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>>44691438
>>44690930
Knew it was only a matter of time before the 40kids dropped in
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>>44691363
Maybe not full on Perils of the Warp. Perhaps the equivalent of the lesser phenomenon one? Or if Perils then maybe there's a save with a cumulative penalty for each time you've used it that day?

It should be internal stuff though like momentary confusion, blindness, insanity, etc. Short of "it makes you angry" I don't see how moving your lightsaber in a different way would make bloodrain and demons (or equivalent) spawn.
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>>44691505
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>>44690800
RuneQuest 6's Star Wars rules aced it.
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>>44690896
How did Kotor 2 do it

>>44690800
You have to stop swinging mid fight and charge it with a wanker motion
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>>44691505
Older lightsabers(First Sith War old) had that or required the user focus force energy into the saber to make the blade.
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>>44691505
I'm not sure I follow your logic. I was just thinking on a way to get around this supposed problem in that it doesn't have to be setting specific. A sort of early 'proto-saber' in a system before the miniaturization made the hilt the only thing required.
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>>44691550
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D6 system from West End had a system for it. I can post it later on if people want?
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>>44691505
But... archaic lightsabers used a huge powercell, usually worn at the belt, witch was linked to the hilt by a cable.
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>>44690896
There is still blatantly better forms in Kotor.

So basically you get a form/style.
Each form is either a small bonus to everything, or a huge bonus to something alongside a huge downside.

But even then some forms gives you large advantages, and downsides you don't care about.
Or the small bonus is insane(one grants +300% force regen if i remember correctly).
The only good thing is that you only get to obtain 4/7 forms, and they are obtained by deciding to fight or ally the 3 Jedi Masters.
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>>44691520
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII/Legends
The form itself was about opening yourself up to the Force in a way that had you give in to your emotions and passions, which isn't light side at all. Mace Windu is pretty much the only Vapaad user who didn't end up going dark.
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>>44690800
Have each get a roll modifier based of of an attribute
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>>44690800
I'd throw everything canon out the window and make up my own. The canon forms never made any sense to me as fighting styles.
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>>44691867
He's also painfully autistic or something because he has no emotions at all, or so says his backstory. Also, he had Shatter Point, basically the ultimate FUCK EVERYTHING dark side related.
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>>44692147
He has emotions, he's just super in control of them because, well, dark side.
>Also, he had Shatter Point, basically the ultimate FUCK EVERYTHING dark side related.
Funny you should say that, Darth Caedus nee Jacen Solo made much use of Shatterpoint. He could also reach into people's chests and grab their hearts, but that's another story.
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>>44691505
>Knew it was only a matter of time before the 40kids dropped in

I really hope you're trolling
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>>44691867
Huh, didn't know that. Neat. Good to know it's more than just swinging your glowstick in a special way. Thanks for showing me. Still, I don't think it should roll on something like full on Perils. That's the table that has people switching bodies, summons demons, and basically creates localized warp storms.
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I never was that big of a fan of the idea behind lightsaber forms, especially when applied to the original movies "Luke is using form x in his fight against Vader, Vader is using form y" nah, the two are pretty much just wailing on each other because they're both filled with emotions. Are the forms still canon?
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>>44692305
Maybe Luke was just wailing. But I can't imagine one survives as long as Vader does without learning something that resembles a style, even if you just figure it out yourself by separating out what works from what doesn't.

Now, the plausibility on whether there should be entire schools of thought behind them is another issue.
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>>44692270
Well it's the closest thing I could think off. The basic concept is sound - if you're doing bad shit, bad shit's going to happen to you. Dark side powers make you a worse person.
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>>44692372
>>44692305
Luke had no one to teach him how to swing a lightsaber.
Anakin, starting at age 9, was actively taught how to swing a lightsaber.
Luke should not have a form until after Return of the Jedi when he starts delving into old Jedi lore in preparation for opening the Jedi Academy. Vader should most definitely have a style.
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>>44692372
From a logical standpoint, the Jedi Order as an organization would have developed named and organized methods of fighting with the lightsaber, but to me, the ones written in the EU always ranged from bland and vague to downright retarded.

In a spiritual sense I suppose there could be fighting styles developed around philosophical approaches to combat, but again, the existing styles are just clumsy as fuck in concept. I'd write my own set from scratch.
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>>44692305
>>44692444

Luke at least learns some swordfighting between ANH and ESB, and more after ESB. It's not just "I try to hit him with a sword made of plasma." The novella "Weapon of the Jedi" has him go to a Jedi Temple and learn how to use a lightsaber basically by practicing against drones like what he used in ANH. The temple walls had murals depicting different stances and how to move the lightsaber in different ways.

>>44692305
As for forms, yes.

In Rebels s1, the Inquisitor mentions that Kanan favors "Form III," and indicates it means he probably studied under Master Depa Billaba.

Absolutely Everything You Need to Know About Star Wars also technically recanonizes their names and basic descriptions of what they're about, though to be fair the book also openly admits most of the information it contains is from material now considered Legends.
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>>44692147
If you read Shatterpoint the book, it's from Mace Windu's perspective. There's also some of his perspective in the Revenge of the Sith novelization, by the same author.
In those, it's not that he has no emotion, he just keeps them under such tight control that nothing shows through. It's the only way that he can manage to use his style without falling to the dark. It also means that he can't fucking relax, ever. So maybe a little autistic.
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I posted the link a few days ago, but a friend of mine wrote up all the Lightsaber Forms as External Styles for Legends of the Wulin, which works pretty great.
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>>44692305
I'm pretty sure the whole idea of lightsaber forms came after the movies, even the prequels, when people just made up styles based on what sounded cool. It's easy to argue that Yoda had a particular style, yeah, but in any other fight scene, it looked like everybody was using pretty much the same moves.
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>>44692618
I wish we'd seen him snap when he fought Palpatine. Would have been great to have Sam Jackson moment in a Star Wars movie.
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>>44692702
>Fuck these muthafuckin Sith in this muthafuckin city!
Screw it, why not?
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>>44692646
Can you post the link again, friend-anon?
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>>44693012

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sFXnMTMSkZ1gCPXz2O-xejC1ioluaL0xvMmagvMO7jQ/edit
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>>44691341
underrated post
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>>44690923

From the old Star Wars figures game, yeah? Man, that was a solid ass ruleset.
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>>44691345

All the formally taught techniques for dual wielding are type 6 moves. Although some Jedi started with type 6 as a sort of basis and went into uncharted territory. Which is pretty typical, really. There's not that many purists out there, even if people tend to lean strongly one way or another.
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>>44692700
>when people just made up styles based on what sounded cool
For what it's worth, they were made up by a guy who apparently had done a lot of fencing, so the basic foundations of them are solid enough, even if the movies weren't made with them in mind. I think it's a bit retroactive as well. Dooku's saber style is very distinctive, and so it's easy to say that it's a very pure example of type 2, which was all elegant and fencer like and used cuts rather than hacking people to bits. Anakin routinely used a very powerhousey, angry, smashy sort of form, and so they made up a style that fitted them. Obi-wan's use of Soresu, particularly against Grevious, fitted a hypothetically style as well.

So even if the movies weren't made with styles in mind, the styles were made with the movies in mind.
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>clone wars novel
>obi-wan and kit fisto stage a lightsaber v energywhip duel with fisto masquerading as an assassin to scare a politician
>politician figures out the trick when his people look at the fight from another angle in security cam footage
>it looks dancy and choreographed as shit
I don't know why, but I loved that moment
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>>44694642
But.... ALL the prequel lightsaber duels were dancy and choreographed. Especially Obiwan vs. Anakin.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I really enjoyed watching them, but really? Making that a plotpoint? Come on.
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>>44697147
>>clone wars novel
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>>44691644
What system is that from?
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>>44697237
Look one post further into the chain, and you'd have gotten your answer already.
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>>44697237
It's the RuneQuest 6 Star Wars. It's fan made, but really good for a small supplement.

http://kurgan84.free.fr/RQ/RQ6StarWars.pdf
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>>44690930
Ha ha ha HA HA HA!
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>>44697147
I can appreciate the effort and skill and coordination that went into making the duels, but I Would have much rather seen something that looked effective, rather than a trashy show of effects.
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>>44691341

Very, very much this.

However, if you want the forms represented in your game, then look to GURPS Martial Arts. The martial arts style system in there allows each style to be distinctive without unbalancing anything. It also makes it easy to mix multiple styles together, which virtually every character in the setting does.
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I love that Obi-Wan had such a good track record for duels.

sure he's legendary to us, but in his world he's just another Jedi, only we know he's secretly probably one of the best duelist jedi's to ever live, but he has no ego to brag of it, and no one is alive that knows.
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>>44700511
Soresu paragon ain't nothing to fuck with.
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>>44700511
>I love that Obi-Wan had such a good track record for duels.
Well, yeah his victory:
- Droid
- Anakin with primitive Djem So.
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>>44700892
Clone Wars is canon, he walks all over Ventress constantly while trading sexually charged banter
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>>44700892
you forget all his clone wars victory's, and his Darth Maul victory.

Darth Maul is a big one, because before him, Sith hadn't been seen for like a thousand years.

think about it, no one had really fought another force user up till then, and a guy trained to kill jedi gets beaten by a Padawan.
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>>44700958
I kind of wish Maul had the light-spear that one guy had in Force Unleashed. It would have been less ridiculous, it just seems like a normal staff, good for walking with OH SHIT
Also you could move your hands up and down the length and adjust your grip without lasering your hands off
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>>44701014
And I just realized they could do that with Rey's scrap staff for episode 8
But they won't
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>>44700956
If clone wars is cannon, that means dooku didn't die on that ship but on... where was that fight even taking place?
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>>44701123
You'd have to give me an episode number for that.
Besides, he died in Episode 3, which, as a theatrical release, is auto-canon.
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>>44701123
the 3rd movie is after all of Clone Wars which takes place over the course of like 3-5 years.
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>>44700958
>you forget all his clone wars victory's,
Which one?
>Darth Maul victory.
It wasn't duel.
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>>44701215
>>44701957

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctN5s8z3E8E
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>>44702104
Notice the ending. Dooku isn't dead. Some sort of Sith Hallucination
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>>44702104
>>44702202
If I said I know, I just linked it to show what anon was talking about, would you believe me?
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>>44702104
watch the whole clip idiot.
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>>44702080
>vs darth maul
>not a duel
>>44702104
It's a Force-induced vision.
>>44702219
No. Because we're anonymous. Why would I believe you?
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>>44701069
I was, and still am, hoping for the same thing.
Thread replies: 70
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