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>Primarchs were a mistake
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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

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>Primarchs were a mistake

>I'm starting to change my mind about mankind

>Before I pass out tell all Space Marines they can go fuc-

and that's just few of the shocking things Emperor said

do you really want to follow this man anon?

I think you should start playing Chaos instead.
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>>44688515
Or we could join the tau and get free health care.
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>>44688544
I like art like this, the aftermath of a battle rather than in the thick of the fighting.
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>>44688574
This isn't even WH40K art it's about Starship Troopers (the book not the movie that fucking cut out power armor for some reason)
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>>44688574
How are you sure that's the aftermath. Looks like the start to me.
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>>44688587
Did Starship Troopers have gorillas in power armour?
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>>44688515
>I think you should start playing Chaos instead.

Didnt they just get temporarily squatted?
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>>44688544
Don't the tau castrate men?
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>>44688651
Only the ones that won't stop rebelling or if the hive they just captured needs its population brought down to more manageable levels.

The Imperium also does this. Only less kindly.
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>>44688685
Then I would go with the Tau aswell, as long as I am not losing my gonads. I'm quite fond of them.

Chaos is so edgy with all it's hate and murderfuckkill policies.
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>>44688622
Squatted means removed from the game not nerfed to fuck unless there is something I don't know about.
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>>44688587
>(the book not the movie that fucking cut out power armor for some reason)
Yet the movie was 100 times superior to the book in every regard.
>Movie: realistic and believable portrayal of a militaristic nation - secret services and propaganda up your ass, populace manipulation, dumb jingoism. Drowns enemies in underarmed and undertrained cannon fodder. Still sympathetic and awesome.
>Book: Muh elite super troops. Muh teacher filibuster. "Everything just works because only army meat gets to vote and reproduce". Unironic admiration of fascism. Pathos up your ass.
>>
>>44688788
>common soldiers carry fucking nukes around
>under armed
yeah, right, whatever you say
also
>realistic military nation = under armed and under trained soldiers
ayyyyy
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>>44688722
They arent getting updated in 2016. They are so far out of the game, and apparently have no chance of being included any time soon. Essentially being ignored, and temporarily squatted.
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>>44688515
Why? This isn't 3.5 anymore and nothing good goes to Chaos fans besides Khornefags. Also where is your proof that he said those things?
>>44688544
Enjoy Fire Caste health care. Etheral health care blasts it out of the water like ten Riptides against Orks and Bezerkers.
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>>44688836
>ayyyyy
I request a counter-example other than contemporary USA, while raising you:
>Soviet Union
>Nazi Germany
>People's Republic of China
>Best Korea
>and the rest of quasi-commie regimes in SEA.
>Cuba end the rest of Archipelago/Latin dictatorships, and generally every country that Ernesto Che Guevara stepped in.
>Every single Middle Eastern regime, from Saddam's, Assad's and Qaddafi's little funhouses to talib Afganistan to Saudi Arabia.
History consistently shows that the more wars a nation wages - the more expandable it's armies become. Small elite corps are built only in peacetime.

>common soldiers carry fucking nukes around
The movie was pretty damn clear on MIs not having nearly enough firepower to safely deal with the bugs. It's like IG - yeah, giant tanks and Deathstrike missiles and whatnot, but considering the power of the opposition the main weight ends up being pulled by sheer bodycount and adamantium balls.
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>>44688714
>Chaos is so edgy with all it's hate and murderfuckkill policies.
Not all of us, but yeah...

>>44688788
>>44688836
Indeed, you do realize that's Robert A. Heinlein you're talking about, right?
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>>44688788
Are you retarded militaristic nation using people as cannon fodder is realistic? Which one even did that in real life? Pointlessly wasting lives is the last thing a militaristic nation would do.
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>>44688996
>Not all of us, but yeah...
Shut the fuck up, you advocate for rape you don't get to fucking talk.
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>>44688714
Enjoy getting symbollicaly castrated, traitor!
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>>44688788
That's exactly why critics say book is better right? You know better than them of course?
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>>44688869
>Essentially being ignored, and temporarily squatted

>Chaosfags comparing their treatment to squatting
>with existing Blood Angels, Black Templars (who fucking lost their own codex not that long ago), fucking SISTERS OF BATTLE.
>non of whom dares to call themselves "squatted"
The defining trait of CSM players - unrepentant whining.
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>>44688982
Sparta and Rome are the two main military nations that actually did it properly
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>>44689025
Enjoy getting turned into a servitor, fuckwad
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>>44688996
Yes it is all of you. You do nothing but lie, and corrupt because you want to watch the galaxy burn.
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>>44689025
So not actual castration then?

Not like the Imperium did to the original loyalists of Armageddon.
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>>44688982
None of the nations you listed are military nations except perhaps Best Korea.
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>>44689053
That only happens if:
A: You did an unforgivable crime.
B: Made a Magos mad
B.2: You raped the Magos
C: You were born in a vat for the purpose of being a servitor.
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>>44689053
I will! Atleast I will do a duty to benefit my species!
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>>44688788
why did they removed guns from the bugs then? In the book they were intelligent altough emotionless and still attacked in massive swarms so the soldiers had it worse than in the movie because they essentially fought against a wall of projectiles a lot like Imperial Guard in their battles.
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>>44688685

read here >>44689062
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>>44689135
oops i fucked up
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>>44689113
Or, you know, as a servitor you'll become possessed by a demon because you have no will of your own and turn against the poor emperor-worshipping crew still on the voidship.
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>>44689164
Before that happened I would have done my service and I would rest eternally by the emperor side
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>>44689113
Congratulations! Your noble sacrifice has become obsolete. We have robots.

Also humanity will survive under the Greater Good. The Imperium is dying.
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>>44689193
Whats left of your soul will belong to what ever god has just clammed it.

You were forsaken by the Emperor when he gave sanction for his adepts to mutilate you.
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>>44689193
Well, if you want to stay by the side of a decaying corpse, than who am I to stop you dude? Go right ahead.
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>>44689202
Living under the boot of another species!?
No thank you!

Or humanity rule the galaxy or we burn it, there is no middle ground!

And about your robots, I'm just waiting them to rebel against yours blue masters asses.
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>>44689036
> You know better than them of course?
Indeed. I can argue beyond appeals to authority.

>>44689006
>militaristic nation using people as cannon fodder is realistic
Well, yeah.
>Which one even did that in real life
Almost every single one?
>Pointlessly wasting lives
It's not "pointlessly" - it's for achieving a specific goal, which importance outshines that of human lives.
> the last thing a militaristic nation would do
"Soldiers are numbers used to solve political equations" - Napoleon Bonaparte

>>44689050
Rome achieved military dominance not by building a universal and disciplined army, but mostly via developed logistics which allowed them to uphold a standing army that outnumbered most of tribal militias and raiding forced that their neighbors managed, while an average Gallic warrior actually had a plenty more combat experience than an average legionary. "Lone testudo standing up to a matchless barbarian horde" is a myth. And when it came down to a worthy opponent (Carthage), Rome was not above ranking up the bodycount if it meant victory.

Sparta is a valid example, and even then - high casualties go through all of their military history.
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>>44689244
Yes, because you're a chaosspawn you automatically advocate for rape. Everyone knows that.

Also, if it were for you, all men would become women or die: fuck you for that aswell. Fuck off back to Slaanesh fucking cunt.
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>>44689218
>>44689222
No man who dies in His service dies in vain.
>>44689244
Ew. Just ew. Fulgrim, please rape this is thing out of existence. Do it and I will reward you with potato salad.
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>>44689222
The custodes don't let me enter the palace anymore.
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>>44689270
look how much emphasis modern military has on soldiers surviving and Starship Troopers takes place in the future which is a little bit different from Napoleonic Wars era I doubt they would suddenly change their mind.
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>>44689103
>None of the nations you listed are military nations except perhaps Best Korea
Well what constitutes a militaristic nation then?
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>>44689306
okay.jpg

>>44689294
>No man who dies in His service dies in vain.
Except when they do.
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>>44689293
>Yes, because you're a chaosspawn you automatically advocate for rape. Everyone knows that.
TIS A LIE!!!

>Also, if it were for you, all men would become women
But of course, it is the only way the galaxy will know peace!

>>44689294
>Do it and I will reward you with potato salad.
AS IF YOU FOOLISH MORTALS COULD OUTDO A DAEMONETTE WHEN IT COMES TO POTATO SALAD!!!
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>>44689380
>But of course, it is the only way the galaxy will know peace!
The galaxy being ruled by women, I can already see it. A bunch of passive-aggressive factions throwing their armies at each other once a month because they are low on chocolate reserves and ice cream. Fucking hell.
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>>44689358
Sacrafices must be made sometimes, but when you honor the fallen' sacrafices with a Vortrex missile kiss your Greater Good goodbye.
>>44689380
The potato salad was a trick. The Vortex Missile is coming for you. Go rape some Tau if you feel like torturing something.
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>>44689309
>look how much emphasis modern military has on soldiers surviving
If by "modern military" you mean "US peacekeeping operations that will roast the president if he brings in a high bodycount" - yeah, sure. I sincerely hope that you don't hold those as model warfare, and don't assume that a full-scale war of extermination (like the one with the bugs) would be lead the same way.
And meanwhile, look at every single major contemporary conflict:
>Donbass
>Middle East altogether, especially Syria and Yemen
All that warfare appreciates human lives pretty damn cheaply. Damn, we don't even need to look back really far to see US losing man in droves in Vietnam, UK on Falklands, or Russia drowning Chechens in conscripts.
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>>44689426
>The galaxy being ruled by women, I can already see it. A bunch of passive-aggressive factions throwing their armies at each other once a month because they are low on chocolate reserves and ice cream. Fucking hell.
BUT THERE WILL BE NO FACTIONS!

ALL WILL RETURN TO MOTHER!!!
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>>44689426
That's far more grimdark than normal 40k. Too grimdark.
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>>44689460
Shut it and get shanked to death by blessed knives.
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>>44689460
It's inevitable that there will be factions.

It's just how women are, completely illogical creatures driven by emotion instead of reason: only a little slight and everything will spontaneously go to shit because one of them commented something that could've been said nicer on someone else's hair.

Well fucking done.
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>>44688515
You should consider joining the Squats. Motorcycles and Space Beer.
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>>44688515
I certainly wouldn't follow a man who thought the Primarchs were a good idea, all said and done.
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>>44688515
I can't help but think Emps is overcome with despair when he sees what his glorious vision for mankind has become.
>>Maybe I shouldn't have tried to spread across the WHOLE universe...
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>>44689264
Tau robots have this amazing thing on them called an "emergency off" button.

Also the Emperor, Primarchs, Space Marines, Navigators and the Mechanicus high ups aren't human. You still enjoy them riding your ass like a $2 whore that you are.
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>>44689630
>Tau robots have this amazing thing on them called an "emergency off" button.

Implying a A.I advanced enough to be self aware won't find a way to circumvant this.

Implying the men of iron also did not have a emergency button.
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>>44689652
At least you have your imagination.
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>>44689562
It's certainly not a picnic for him. But his pain reminds him why he's alive, and that death has no power over him.
>>44689652
You're a loony.
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>>44689652
I swear this harlot is more than enough to turn anyone reasonable into a raging Khornate.
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>>44689630
>Mechanicus high ups aren't human
But they are. They're just heavily augmented humans.
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>>44688788

How is fascism compatible with a democracy of the armed? Those are completely different things. You could say both are bad but then they're bad in different ways.
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>>44689630
Implying the Emperor woudn't take his time to make you feel comfortable and loved before gently putting in.
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>>44689734
You just need to not take her seriously.
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>>44689734
>>44689756
>she
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>>44689695
>At least you have your imagination.
>>44689712
>You're a loony.
>>44689756
>You just need to not take her seriously.
And now you get it!
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>>44689735
They might have started out as human. They are human no longer. They have removed and renounced anything and all things that make them human and embrace the cold and unfeeling machine as lover and kin.

>>44689741
The Emperor doesn't care about humanity. Humanity was just a stepping stone on his path to godhood.
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>>44689849
He can shit out warpstorms at wim how is he not a god to you?
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>>44689893
I never said he wasn't.
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>>44688587
>>44688616
it's AT_43 from rackham
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>>44689928
You said he was in the path to godhood, when he is already a god.
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>>44689712
Was thinking more of an eternity of humanity locked in endless war, hiveworlders endlessly toiling to fuel a war machine of unimaginable magnitude, even avoidable conflicts pursued by a dogmatic imperium happy to sacrifice countless lives in his name.
Earth, hell the milky way could have been a utopia had he overreached.
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>>44689849
They're still human deep down.
>The Emperor doesn't care about humanity.
Keep talking lies.
>>44690002
>Was thinking more of an eternity of humanity locked in endless war, hiveworlders endlessly toiling to fuel a war machine of unimaginable magnitude, even avoidable conflicts pursued by a dogmatic imperium happy to sacrifice countless lives in his name.
>Earth, hell the milky way could have been a utopia had he overreached.
His pain is for them. He suffers for every human in the galaxy.
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>>44689960
So hows that standing up thing coming along?
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>>44690109
Some things aren't meant to be rushed. Patience is needed.
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>>44690130
The Emperor is now aware that he has an itch on his nose.
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>>44689737
>How is fascism compatible with a democracy of the armed
Hitler was elected as the Reichskanzler democratically and retained massive population approval throughout his reign. As did Mussolini and Franco. The basic tenets of Fascism actually portray the ideal leader figure as not a revolutionary power-grabber, but as a chosen leader of his willing people. It's just that most fascist regimes did not actually implement that element of ideology due to descent into factual plutocracy.

And don't forget that book, for all the prosperity and "effective political system" that it mentions, never actually brings up the political scene itself - we don't know who the President is, how often the elections are held and was the current President by chance re-elected about dozen times, making Federation about as democratic as modern Russia.
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>>44690166
He doesn't even have a nose anymore.
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>>44690206
That's the joke
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>>44690226
Come to think of it, why has no one tried using biomancy on Emps to heal him? Could biomancy fix him up?
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>>44690002
> eternity of humanity locked in endless war, hiveworlders endlessly toiling to fuel a war machine of unimaginable magnitude
I actually believe that this was Emperor's Plan All Along. A plan that required him going against the very core principles that he held and forcing him to take the Abraham's road all the way, sacrificing his sons of his flesh and blood and eventually his own life to the hated God that was himself.

It was horrible, it broke him and still he has no eyes but still must watch the nightmare unfolding, yet knowing that there was no other way to preserve mankind. Or was there?
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>>44690259
Pretty sure, given the constant faith and warp-saturation of his form that the skeleton in the throne is nothing more than an anchor for his soul right now. Educated guess, I know, but it beats the other excuses as to why he refuses to move.
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>>44690206
How does he smell?
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>>44690423
There's probably something on the throne that lets him or he smells with his mind.
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>>44690226
My Emperor's got no nose!
How does he smell?
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>>44690507
Like corpse and chaos.
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>>44690507
Like dry flesh embalming fluid. So basically like Lenin
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>>44688788

The movie is pure satire of militarism. The director (Paul Verhoevem, fucking boss who also did Total Recall and Robocop among other rad movies), openly says he found the book disgusting and didn't even bother finishing it.

The book is also not just pure fascist military jingoism. Heinlein was a thoughtful, sophisticated man. He did admire the military and while the philosophy in the book aligns closely with what he really believed (read the commencement speech he gave at Anapolis here: https://philebersole.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/robert-a-heinlein-on-patriotism/). However, the most useful aspect of Starship Troopers is as a commentary on human social behavior. It tacitly acknowledges that the ONLY way humanity will ever unite (for the most part -- total peaceful unity is not in our DNA) is if there is an external, non-human threat. This is pretty basic social theory stuff. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_identity
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>>44690909
>The movie is pure satire of militarism
I know what Verhoevem intended, that however does not prevent us from seeing admirable things in his presentation of Mobile Infantry - personal sacrifice, courage in the face of overpowering opponent and loyalty beyond reason.

>The book is also not just pure fascist military jingoism. Heinlein was a thoughtful, sophisticated man.
Having read the rest of his works, I understand that although I see his talent horribly overblown in public mind, as the case is with his title of one of the godfathers of sci-fi. But Troopers themselves remain just an unpleasant and irritating book to read.

>However, the most useful aspect of Starship Troopers is as a commentary on human social behavior. It tacitly acknowledges that the ONLY way humanity will ever unite (for the most part -- total peaceful unity is not in our DNA) is if there is an external, non-human threat.
I recognize social theory's status as almost scientific, but that statement is a gross oversimplification, and more importantly - I don't remember human unification to be a major theme through the book.
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>>44689426
even more fighting going on because someone didn't feel pretty enough
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>>44691117
>I don't remember human unification to be a major theme through the book
I haven't read it in years, but I remember the main character's dad going from anti-military to signing up after Buenos Aires.

>his talent horribly overblown in public mind
I can't speak to how he is perceived, as I haven't talked about him with a ton of people, but he was a huge figure in sci-fi and his works are amazing. I don't like his novels as much, but his short stories are all well-researched and astonishingly well-written. I'm going through his Future History series again and it's some of the best stuff I've read in years.
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>>44691318
>I haven't read it in years, but I remember the main character's dad going from anti-military to signing up after Buenos Aires.
It was an almost insultingly short episode, lampshaded by the "oh we both have our ships leaving in 15 minutes gotta run god I hope the boarding officer won't roast me for being late".

>his works are amazing
Eeeeeeh.

Stanislav Lem = Strugatsky Brothers > Harlan Elisson but ONLY because I'm absolutely in love with his "RL /b/-tard and not fucking ashamed of it" self that just spills outta his works > Phillip K. Dick > Asimov > Clarke = Sheckley > Belyaev > Niven = HEINLEIN > Efremov > Simak > and we're well outside the Essential Patriciancore. Space operas and the like notwithstanding.
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>>44689037
Oh hey, it's the Black Templars again.

Yes, they lost their codex, but what did they actually lose from the transition?

>Still have special characters
>Still have Crusader Squads
>Still have Land Raider Crusaders
>Get all the cool new shit vanilla SM get (including scout/dread buffs and squadroned heavy support)
>Got their own Chapter Tactics despite not being a 1st Founding Chapter

I'll give you losing the Vows and other unique generic HQs, but everyone lost similar shit by the time 7th rolled around.
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>>44690259

Rick Priestley who designed the setting said he might just as well be a dead corpse acting as a conduit for a beacon. Biomancy can't do proper resurrections.
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>>44691712
>Yes, they lost their codex, but what did they actually lose from the transition?
Well, if they are not losing anything from having no own codex - then what do CSM are losing from not being updated?

Don't give me "muh underpower" - melee BT are fundamentally shittier than almost anything CSM can put out in 7ed, and Dark and Blood Angels are certainly sharing tier with you.

And I'd just LOVe to hear you explain your "squatting" to SoB players.
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>>44691813
I'm not even mad about CSM being a fucking awful codex with dozens of trap options, I just want a book for the current edition.

Nobody should have to wait 3+ years for their army to get an update. That's lunacy, and it just might be what makes me stop playing 40K for good.

That being said, I agree that "squatting" is nowhere near an accurate term for CSM's current condition. However, I also think this "All CSM players do is bitch" meme is getting stupid.

I don't insult people for complaining that their army got shafted after waiting a ludicrous amount of time. I feel like they have a right to that, because its stupid for that level of fuckery to happen to anyone.

Not to point fingers, but in my group and around the web they only people I've seen complain about CSM whining have been Imperialfags who've been spoonfed updates and releases, and cannot relate to other armies getting fucked with their updates.

>Orks waited since 4th edition for an update that removed all the flavor from their army and added shitty centerpiece models to compensate
>CSM still doesn't have most of their range in plastic, with some kits being around 10-20 years old
>SoB have had pewter forever, and haven't got a codex since 5th edition
>Tyranids got terrible codices for 2 straight editions, and were only saved from shittiness thanks to dataslates and out-of-nowhere model releases
>Space Marines get model releases and codex updates every year
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>>44692175
>who've been spoonfed updates and releases
As a Dark Angels player, I say - this is completely ridiculous. As in - "it's true and it's bullshit". Dark Angels 7ed Codex was wholly fucking unnecessary, as it added NOTHING aside from formations and stuff that could be fixed by an errata (and formations were fucked up so it needed emergency errata ANYWAY), and the book itself was less pretty, and badly organized compared to the based 6ed hardcover that was a pure pleasure to list through until you opened it on your air solutions, at least.
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>>44692316
Meant to say "Vanilla Space Marines" instead of all Imperial armies, because looking back there have been some rough changes
>Grey Knights losing Inquisition assets, which got moved into their own ally codex
>Legion of the Damned released as an ally-only book
>Militarum Tempestus released as a standalone army
>Sisters getting an e-book update that only made them worse
>Skitarii having no HQ unit
>Imperial Assassins sectioned into their own book
>Imperial Knights beginning the superheavy arms race that brought us to 200 point WKs
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>>44691117

>I recognize social theory's status as almost scientific, but that statement is a gross oversimplification

Granted. I didn't want to get into a deep discussion of sociology here or divert from the main point.

>and more importantly - I don't remember human unification to be a major theme through the book.

Everyone in the military is from all over the planet and learns to speak "standard English" before joining or while enlisted. Then there's all the passages about "history of moral philosophy," which posit that the highest morality is sacrificing one's self for the good of others. The lowest form is sacrificing for loved ones, the highest form is sacrifice for the species as a whole. In Heinlein's commencement speech he only goes so far to say that the highest morality is sacrificing one's self for one's country. Seems logical that the next jump would be to identity with the species as a whole, with the "other" group being aliens.

We'll never know for sure because Heinlein is dead, but it seems highly plausible that he had this stuff in mind when writing. If someone so clearly articulates a moral system at the level of a country, and then elevates it to the level of the whole species, I don't see how that jump gets made without the sociological underpinning. Heinlein's entire body of work is about working out those details that underpin the overall "what if?" scenario. Just seems like it fits too well not to be what he had in mind.
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>>44688544
Who needs healthCARE. We have the god of plagues himself on our side.
Now enjoy your cough, cultist
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>>44689104
But unforgiveable crime is a rather broad description in the IoM. It could be something simple like not making the proper handgesture while passing a statue of St.WhatEverMagus on your spaceship. Or spitting in the wrong way, or ...
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>>44689511
Am I the only one who thinks the new Fyreslayers are a big step away from ye stoud dorf of old and towards leatherjacket wearing bikersquats?
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>>44688515
>Wow the emperor was kinda a cunt and the empire also shit.
>So hey, go and serve the literally worse option :):^):^):)
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>>44689050
The whole "super organized" armies was propaganda from the nobles and commanders to make themselves seem better, like the effectiveness of small swords and the brits walking calmly over the no mans land after only a few months of mental training.

Reality is that the strength that made them conquer the world was good logistics, good morale and hyper agressive tactics ala "never stop running at them screaming bloody murder" kinda tactics.

and spartans are not really valid considering they were a lone greek city state tribe fighting other lone greek and foreign small tribes. When pull actually came to push against a larger army they kinda got slaughtered, greek nationalists at the time may say that they fought valiantly an sugar it up it was more likely that the enemy just took it's sweet time looting the town and hunting down stragglers and guerrillas.
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>>44688982

>elite forces built only during peacetime

Then what are Rangers, Jaegers, Panzergrenadiers, Commandos and litetally every modern European special forces?
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>>44694819
>special forces
They are exactly that - SPECIAL FORCES. For special ops. They don't take on the bulk of enemy force, assault/takeover/hold positions or storm cities. They perform deep recon, sabotage, diversions, captures and extractions. The SPECIAL in name means that they are used for a variety of vital missions that cannot be accomplished by regular (NOT special) forces. They are not a "small elite army" - they are a surgeon's scalpel in the arsenal of a much larger fighting force.
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>>44693555
> It could be something simple like not making the proper handgesture while passing a statue of St.WhatEverMagus on your spaceship. Or spitting in the wrong way, or
Literally straw. Even at it's worst Imperium is not that retarded.
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>>44695502
One of the reasons you can be put in a penal legion is for not returning a library book on time.
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>>44695628
Not all libraries are the like the one on your street and not all books are Ayn Rand paper trash - there are IRL books that worth more than you'll earn in a lifetime, and while libraries that hold them are very reluctant to give them out, it can happen if you provide good enough reasoning and credentials. But not returning that kind of book on time can easily land you in jail for awhile if the library in question gets pissed enough.

Now consider how old Imperium is and how long it's been static. Pretty much any major Imperial world must have libraries full of ancient and priceless unique tomes, concerning (probably revised many times since it was printed) history of that planet or sector, important (and probably secret) statistics and demographics, valuable personal information on people now considered heretics and other kinds of sensitive material. Not returning those kinds of books on time can be a serious offense considering their contents and lack of copies.
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>>44695946
That's a point I hadn't thought of. I had assumed that it was a sort of tongue-in-cheek look at how 'seriously' grimdark the Imperium can be. And I guess it's also important to think there's probably not much in the way of reading for pleasure, or even reading on some planets.
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>>44696389
Having chewed through quite a plenty of media in my time, most of that being literature, and also having served time in the army - 40k, for all of it's young target audience, monetary motivations and escapism purposes, is a DAMN WELL BUILT ALL AROUND setting. Certainly among the deeper, well developed and most believable ones in known fiction. Seriously.

Yeah, it gets some dumber minor elements in recent time, but the core of the world is built on really thought out principles and well-chosen borrowed ideas from across the best works of classic literature, sci-fi, space opera and mythos. In it's aim of making a bleak but yet interesting world buried in conflict with many different and colorful sides, none of them in the right, 40k manages to create a damn fucking believable and immersive setting with great ground for varied and shifting morality in the face of dire circumstances with multiple points of view on different scales. The speculative nature of all the lore is a damn brilliant idea, and reading through works on theosophy - classic and modern - I often found myself thinking back to pantheons of warhammer.

Indeed it requires a good deal of irony to enjoy, but so do many cool things, real life well among them. And certainly it can be quite over the top sometimes, but it's alright because reality can also be rather unrealistic and over the top, and 40k has the central theme of warfare, which has humanity at it's most over the top moments. We laugh at stupidly grimdark and grimdarkly stupid descriptions of huge battles, sometimes forgetting that battle of Stalingrad, blockade of Leningrad, siege of Saraevo and storming of Grozny were at times far darker and had a ton of unbelievably stupid episodes in them, and also all of those actually happened. And for every pointless genocide or mass murder within 40k universe, one can bring out numerous pointless and cruel bloodbaths of human history.

(cont.)
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>>44697604
Intentionally or not really, Warhammer 40k does a damn fine fucking job of connecting the fiction matter of warfare fantasy escapism and reality of it, achieving something that not many purely creative (as opposed to driven by financial interests) works created by one collected mind managed. And it's absolutely out of the question that the setting - is the one thing that responsible for absolute most of 40k's popularity and longevity.

Of and yeah, visual work on the thing has also been bretty good for most of the time, which contributed greatly to the enjoyment.

I don't care that I sound like a damn PR manager - I feel like expressing my admiration of a really good setting despite it's reputation as "grimdork shit for teenagers". 40k is good and it will stand the test of time, GeeDubs be damned
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>>44697604
>>44697754
Damn, I do say "damn" a lot, don't I?
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>>44697848
A bit, but you make quite a few solid points, and your feelings for the setting mirror my own.
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>>44697604
>40k has the central theme of warfare, which has humanity at it's most over the top moments
This is normally a quote I use for the harpies who bitch about HFY being over-the-top (heh), but I'll put it here because it's fucking fantastic. Written by a Wehrmacht lieutenant during the battle of Stalingrad:
"Stalingrad is no longer a town. By day it is an enormous cloud of burning, blinding smoke; it is a vast furnace lit by the reflection of the flames. And when night arrives, one of those scorching howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."
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>>44699430
in the grimdark past of the 30's there is only war
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>>44699483
>30's
>Stalingrad
bruh
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>>44690423
Like a corpse.
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>>44697604
Bumping because this is a good point.
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>>44689104
>implying raping the magos won't also make it mad
"Look 31573-jrt, I'm not mad, but I said no, and no means no, you didn't even recite the canticle of the sillicate shield"
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>>44689006
>>Are you retarded militaristic nation using people as cannon fodder is realistic? Which one even did that in real life? Pointlessly wasting lives is the last thing a militaristic nation would do.

You are either trolling or a 12 y/o. The Soviet red army was the very definition of zerg rush "fuck the casualties" warfare. So was the PLA in Korea.
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>>44703562
What kind of "militaristic" nation gets caught with its pants down and nearly wiped off the face of the planet in a matter of weeks? They threw everything they had at the Germans because that was the only way to beat them.

During the Cold War they had so many tanks that we started developing nuclear anti-tank recoilless rifles just so we could take them out one division at a time instead of one tank at a time, but I don't know if you can really consider a fuckload of tanks "cannon fodder."
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>>44703800
>we

You know that's really annoying without context on where you're from - especially since you're probably not at least half a century older than most anons, overseeing the process of making anti-tank rifles.

On another point, you still haven't answered the question about the PLA. Kim Il Sung had plenty of bodies to throw at South Korea and enthusiastically did so, not even waiting for all the armored divisions he could've had. In the turn around where South Koreans actually held together and Americans came in to bomb and fuck things up, thousands of NK soldiers were killed or cut off from friendly lines.

And if I remember correctly, the Nationalists nominally in control of China during the 1920s and 30s used huge conscript armies to try and fight the Communists. They were even worse off than a penal legion - at least a penal legionnaire was guaranteed a lasgun.
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>>44688544
Wait is this actually from Warhammer? Are these Tau Converts? They look fucking amazing.
>>
>>44704544
Nope, it's Starship Troopers. Who do you think the U.N.A. is?
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>>44689133
Because the bugs could fart plasma into outer space?
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>>44703562
>The Soviet red army was the very definition of zerg rush "fuck the casualties
While it's true that Soviets saw absolutely everything as expendable and were eagerly sacrificing troops - their doctrine was never any sort of "zerg rush".

>>44703800
>What kind of "militaristic" nation gets caught with its pants down and nearly wiped off the face of the planet in a matter of weeks
Pearl Harbor, motherfucker
Any actual one. Militaristic nation is defined by participating in numerous major conflicts. And in those, shit happens all the time.
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>>44689630
>this is what Taufags actually believe
Enjoy your machine rebellion, before you say that it will be different this time, remember that this is 40k.
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>>44704544
>>44705744

Dude fuck, that's AT-43.
Stop sucking taint so much and acquire taste.
>>
>>44689468
'tis true, imagine if Khorne was called the Blood Goddess because she was constantly on her period.
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>>44689019

>Like what I don't like
>Therefore, you are not permitted to speak

That's a little fascist don't you think, progressive-chan?
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>>44688515
The only good Primarch was Sigmar
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>>44708070
Put your name back on ND, we know it's you.
>>
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>>44688788
lel
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>>44688544
Or you could go ahead and chop off your balls yourself.
Nobody likes you, Josh. Nobody wants to hear about your castration fetish all the damned time.
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>>44690671
I always thought that it is extremely cruel what they did to Lenin.
He especially requested to be buried in his hometown, next to his wife with only a small tombstone. Ne never wanted to be used as a propaganda tool.
Really sad.
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>>44709212
We've already had this discussion up thread.

>>44709265
It's almost like Governmental parties will put their own lust for authority above the interests of the people they claim to represent. But surely nothing like that could exist in a communist society. Right?
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>>44709265
>He especially requested to be buried in his hometown, next to his wife with only a small tombstone
Wuttt? Lenin was married only once in his life, and Nadezda Krupskaya outlived him by good 15 years, and never even visited Ulyanovsk/Simbirsk to be buried there (for Lenin to be buried "next to her"). And even before his death, Lenin did not contemplate it or leave any will - he was writing for newspapers and corresponding with his allies across half the Europe until sclerosis took his ability to write and talk, hoping for eventual recovery.

After he died, it was Krupskaya (along with Kamenev and Trotsky) who opposed the idea of Mausoleum, Krupskaya wanting him buried on Novodevichy cemetery, but a temporary wooden Mausoleum was built almost immediately (on Stalin's orders) and saw enormous popularity among populace, people from all over Russia going into actual pilgrimage to Moscow by tens of thousands to see the dead vojd. This cemented the idea of building a permanent Mausoleum. And when Krupskaya herself was in her twilight years, Stalin offered her a place in Mausoleum alongside Lenin - not only as his wife, but as one of the major leaders and ideologists of revolution. She, of course, refused. In the end they entombed her in the Kremlin wall.

>>44709298
>It's almost like
Well, for starters - Lenin was not a proletarian for Soviet power to represent him. As a member of intelligentsiya, he described his role and interests as entirely subservient to the working class. But more importantly - both the original idea of embalming and the support for it came from those very proletariat masses, Stalin only lobbying it in the party (he was yet FAR from position of absolute power he attained by 30s). So, in fact, the Mausoleum was (and is, most of the Moscow population retaining position of keeping Lenin where he is) indeed in the interests of the people, which Lenin always placed well above any of his own should they come into conflict.
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>>44709265
>>44710575
With this brought up - it's impossible not to notice some parallels between Lenin and God Emperor.

Both were militant Patres Patriae who reforged the world and people around them, speaking from the grounds of rationality, logic and science - leaving the Communist ideology aside, Lenin himself was a very sophisticated man and an adamant rationalist and atheist. But after the end of their lives, both became unwilling icons far their peoples, death turning former Deicides into gods for a new religion, the process driven by desperation of their people in the dire times, fueling the need for new faith and hope. And the obvious "the Golden Throne = the Mausoleum" part.

After Lenin's death, the "formerly" religious population of rural areas of Russia started treating his portraits as Orthodox icons: praying before them, greeting them with traditional Russian triple sign of cross and bow and even demanding them to be placed in churches - both hilarious, symbolic and quite reminiscent of the Emperor's fate.
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>>44705744

No, it's AT-43 by Rackham.
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>>44688936
I'll let you know I give my warriors the best healthcare aviable. Ethereals can go fuck themselves.
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>>44689426
Wait, shut up.
We already had this discussion once. It ended with a homebrew setting, which was pretty much a 'what if GW wanted to market WH40k to young females instead?'.
Can't remember the name, but it is on 1d4chan.
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>>44689060
Tzeentch isn't about all that. He mixes it up sometimes. He literally has to.
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>>44690423
Like holy light... and space marine gene seed.
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>>44692175
Wanting an update every three years. All of humanity has been using the same tech for 10k years.
>By the Emperor!
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