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Guaranteed mana draw in MTG
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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

Thread replies: 51
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You know this mana flood/screw thing is annoying lets be real. It comes up so much and for like 90% of people who have this happen in their games, its really no fun.

Is it possible to customize the rules of MTG so that you have a separate pile for land?
Has anyone tried this?

Obviously, you'd have to make a lot of changes to the cards to get this to work. Maybe change some effects to be based off percentage likelihood in a balanced deck or something.

What do you think /tg/?
Would this be an interesting way to play MtG if you balanced it right?
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>>44662814
>Every turn
Well, maybe every second turn. Not sure.
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>>44662814
A lot of decks would become broken.
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>>44662814
Just use some artifacts.
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>>44662814
There's this TCG called Force of Will which plays in a very similar way to Magic, but with a separate deck with 10-20 cards for magic stones (equivalent of lands).

I've played this game more than Magic, so I can just imagine how bad mana problems are, but I feel this system lets you concentrate more on your strategy without having to worry for mana. The only issue you could have would be drawing mana of an attribute you don't need.
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>>44662905
You'd have to rule some out I suppose. Perhaps it would be better if it was the average number of turns.

Its been a while, to be honest. That mana rule (and the general expense) puts me of off magic, so I apologize if that's a little too obvious.
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>>44662929
I guess you could do that. Artifacts could be broken, though depending on what the other deck is, but I guess if both sides agree, that could work.

>>44662933
Interesting. That artwork looks about as polished from what you posted as magic. To bad its so hard to find people who would play new tcg.
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>>44662963
>broken
*discarded
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Inb4 the deck with the one multiplying plague rat card and 30 something swamps turns up
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>>44662963
There's been a small but growing community around the game. Since it's kinda new, the game is easy and cheaper to get into. It has a very similar battle system, with mechanics simila rto Haste, Flying and others.

However, it seems some people find it hard to get into because of the artstyle. It's a jpanese TCG, and most of the cards have an anime-style art. Some have less anime-ish artwork, but it's a minority.
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>>44662814
How about don't keep a hand you cannot play 50% without needing to draw ever?

>>44662929
Pay to play, let alone win is not fun, and that's just the false scarcity crap
Pseudo-power 9 shit is inherently broken, all massive fast upside, no downside
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>>44663044
Yeah, I just looked it up. That would be a problem. The issue lies less in the style necessarily and more in the number of.. eh...
Waifu cards...Its possible to do anime without that overtone. Not really an issue for me, but it does make me kind of... more wary of letting people see that I play that game and who I might be playing it with.

I think I remember seeing this game around and thinking some rather mean things about it when presented amidst the general smell and aura of /tg/ shops.
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>>44662814
The VS system had a mechanic where any card can be played face-down as that game's equivalent of a land. It's just, certain cards (i.e. the ones intended to be played face down as resources) had effects you could flip them over for.

Shame it ended, but it got a lot of sets, and its fairly rich in material.
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>>44663044
Rip FoW. Had about 10-20 people at my local get into it but over the months it has died down and they no longer do events.
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>>44663233
This does not necessarily mean something is dead.
10-20 is a lot now that I really think about it.
Even if they don't play and its been relegated to a select group for now, that sounds like quite a revealing too me.
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>>44663233
>>44663264
At my local, we're around 8 players. Last event, we had a 4 people tourney, with one of the shopkeepers participating. Here where I live, FoW is pretty new, so we're working on bringing new players. The artstyle isn't a problem, since most of the customers here are weebs anyway.
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I love duel masters' mana system. Any card can be placed into your mana pool and you can place once per turn, but once the card is in your mana pool, you can't cast it anymore.
Makes you deal with the tradeoffs of putting in your creatures into the mana zone
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>>44663188
Now that you mention it, some other games also had this mechanic, for example the predecessor of Hearthstone (WoW TCG) or one of may favorites, Hecatomb
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>>44663413
That's true.
I guess its really only something that bothers me a bit.. but, well, no not really.

8 regulars is fairly decent from what I've seen of ccg.
Looking at the site it doesn't look dead, just really early.

Looks like its not made it to where I live, so if I wanted to try it out, I'd have to get it online and then convince someone to play.
...
I need to start playing MtG at card shops again just to meet people.
Even though I have so much trouble meeting sane people at card shops. Oh god.

I'm not even completely sure anyone off-line shares my hobbies except weird neo-pagans and cookie cutter stereotypes I can't really connect with let alone stand or be in the same room with for more than 5 minutes without feeling a tangible sense of loneliness and isolation.

I don't think it was the game I was thinking about earlier, by the way. It looks more polished. With the one I was thinking about, the artists didn't really put any effort into it at all, so it just looked like the CCG for some generic slice of life anime and I'm not sure how I conflated the two.
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>>44663437
This would probably be the way to go:

You can play any card as a mana source once per turn as a special action.

Mana sources can tap for any color of mana in their card colors (or should color identity be used?). For example, lightning bolt could tap for just red. while Spiritmonger could tap for black and green.

Lands that are played as mana sources have their tap abilties printed on them. Basic lands can tap for their appropriate colors, as provided for in the other rules.
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>>44663712
>once per turn
So you can only use one card as mana?
This would still be problematic for people getting too much mana too early.
Too me, that alone is not very fun.
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>>44663712
>>44663794
Unless you just mean the card taps like a land.
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>>44663794
>>44663814
Never mind. I misread the duelmaster rules.
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Any card in your hand can be played face down as though it were a land. Face down cards played this way are colorless lands and have "T: Add <> to your mana pool". You would still need actual land cards for colored mana, but this would allow you to not completely fall behind if you get mana screwed.

Several TCGs have had resource systems like this, and I think it's the best balance between mitigating mana screw while not falling into complete degeneracy (separate land deck so you're guaranteed a useful land every turn, playing any card as a land and having it tap for its colors, etc).
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>>44662814
>hey guys, what if we take magic and make it's resource system work like literally every other card game
>It's only been around for 20 years, I think we should fix it

Mcfucking kill yourself
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>>44664137
>Every turn
Again, misspoke there.
I should clarify. It would be more like every 2 or 3 turns you'd draw land only. If you get a card that draws more than one card, you'd do draw from the land pile every second or third or whatever card you'd need to draw.

Basically, it would be like stacking the deck so you always get a land, but without the associated shuffling problems.

The tapped card thing seems like it might be a better way given the nature of MTG and whatnot. I just thought I'd clarify that part.

>>44664276
What crawled up your ass and died?
This is just an idea I wanted to see /tg/s thoughts on.

Go back to /b/.
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>>44664276
>hey guys, what if we take this old thing that was built on uncharted territory and make it more like newer things that were created with the benefit of 20+ years of hindsight
>"hmph! i don't like change! you should literally die for thinking things can be improved upon over time!"
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>>44664297
It's not a particularly new idea, people have suggested it before on this board and FoW already exists which was literally designed to be Magic with a "fixed" resource system.

I'll rephrase without greentext

The most unique thing about magic at this point among the glut of CCGs now is the resource system. MtG was the first big card game and almost every game that came after it explicitly did not use the same resource system because they think they can improve it. Is MtG's resource system flawed? It has it's downsides, yes it is possible to get mana screwed or flooded. Those are important factors in helping less experienced people sometimes win. If you build your deck with proper land/nonland balance you will play far FAR more games without screw or flood than you will with it.

At this point in the game's life, trying to change the resource system is just not going to work. Regardless of how you mod it, being able to have a deck of cards with garunteed no lands drawn is just too phenomenal.

How are you going to do opening hands? Do you NEED to draw X cards from your land deck? Burn would love to draw 7 cards of gas and only ever draw lands when it needs to

Is there an enforced limit to you big or small your sub decks need to be? Combo would love to have a 15 cad deck of exactly what you need.

How will cards that search your deck work? How will you reveal the top card of your library with Lantern of Insight vs. Oracle of Mul Daya? There is so little consideration to how these cards will work I don't believe you even have that much experience with Magic and yet you think you have the ability to "fix" it's system.
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>>44662814
>Has anyone tried this?
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>>44662814
Build / mulligan better m8. The variance of mana availability is part of what makes magic such a good game. Sometimes it loses you the game and it sucks, but over all it's a good system. A lot of the time when players get mana screwed either their deck is built suboptimaly or they made a bad keep.
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>>44664297
>This is just an idea I wanted to see /tg/s thoughts on.
Not even the guy that you're replying to, but people have been "having this idea" for about three or four years, and every thread ends up the same.
Magic isn't going to change. Please get better at building decks, evaluating hands, and accepting the inevitable.
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I think formats should just use the Commander mulligan rule.

>Draw seven cards.
>Exile any you don't want face down.
>Draw that many minus one.
>Repeat as many times as you like or until you get to 0 cards.
>Shuffle all exiled cards into your deck.

It helps mitigate mana flood/screw while not changing how deckbuilding or the rules of the game work (no land decks or anything).
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>>44664820
fuck your rule, combo doesn't need more consistency
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>>44664648
I am well aware of Hearthstone and have played it a while back. It is not the same as MtG for more reasons than the mana system.

Even if you exclude the fact that hearthstone involves heroes, there are still differences in the types of cards that are available and various other factors.
Its just not the same as MtG.
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>>44664820
Commander's mulligan rule is nice, but floods and screws are still possible mid-game. I've seen games de decided based off mana draw more than once.
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>>44665066
To be fair, it's a lot easier to fall to the whims of the RNG goddess when you're playing a 100 card singleton deck as opposed to a modern or standard one.
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>>44662905
Honest question: what decks would become broken?
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>>44662814
Has anyone tried doing it so if you want a land card, your opponent discards a random card from your hand while you get to search your deck for one?
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>>44665157
Control Belcher is now the best deck in legacy. Tin Fins and Burning Reanimator both become incredibly strong: Tin Fins with Serum Powder already has around a 60% uninterrupted turn one kill rate, and with increased consistency (and more protection via Unmask) it probably shatters the format.
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>>44662814
I play Mind Funeral. gg
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Building a mana base is part of magic. If you're getting flooded or screwed a lot, then you probably didn't do it well
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>>44663457

The Spoils has a similar mechanic and still functions similarly to Magic.
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>>44665424
Delver decks become way worse, they lose the "i draw maybe 3 lands by turn 5" virtual card advantage that they built around. If you never had to worry about mana, shardless BUG might actually get a huge boost. Their mana is usually the weak point
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>>44667126
Unless they put like 30 lands and 30 non lands, getting fucked shouldn't happen. But it sure as fuck does. Best method for shuffling is to seperate piles by 7, and NEVER fuckin half stack shuffle. Let your douche bag opp do that for you.
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>>44667180
>math is hard
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>>44663044
>I can't tell the difference between flavor and rules text
Wow, I can never play this
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>>44665424

>Tin Fins

Holy shit this looks like a lot of fun.
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>>44664820
That's a bullshit rule. Partial Paris with one freebie. Even that's a bit generous sometimes.
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>>44664966
I wouldn't mind being able to get rid of my redundant combo/disription pieces and draw more cards
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>>44664820
That would increase dredges bazaar consistency to almost 100% in vintage
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>>44664757
The other night the Canadian threshold player was complaining about mana screw after keeping a hand with no threats or deck manipulation. That's not the deck's fault.

"Mana screw" is usually "i kept a hand that needed to draw a land to do anything. Then i didn't for 4 turns and lost" or whatever. Imperfect mana is what makes mulligan decisions interesting
Thread replies: 51
Thread images: 9
Thread DB ID: 385983



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