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MTG prices too damn high
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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzrjdSbcmic&ab_channel=TolarianCommunityCollege

right, i forgot about how easy it is to brew your own homebrew winning deck for any of the 3 major formats, not to mention cheap.

MTG takes so much skill.
fuck this shitty game. 500$ to play something that will rotate out in 6 months, and new sets full of shit cards that drop from 50$ to 2$ in a week.

This game is bullshit.
>>
>>44627980
Get the hell out, Redditturd.
>>
>>44627980
I agree. 20+ year player here.

This explains why Modern is so popular now. Perhaps this is calculated?

Unless you are a "pro player" and keeping up with standard is literally your job, the direction Wizards is going is troubling. TCC makes good points.
>>
It's pretty shit, MTG went from "fun card game to dick around with at the FLGS" to "literally everyone is competitive, don't even show up if you're not running a netdeck that costs more than a beater car on craigslist".

Also WotC ruined the aesthetic of all their franchises with the shitty deviantart level art direction, game jumped the shark a decade ago. TCGs as "fun" games are a thing of the 90s, playing this shit in 21st century is just nah.

Similar thing happened to wargames. Basically, if you want to actually enjoy games just play pnp.
>>
>>44627980
Get a job.
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>>44630089
walmart and pizza delivery doesn't pay for magic cards son.
>>
Just play casually with friends, shit-for-brains.
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>>44630189
This is honestly the only way to play.
>>
I always loved MTG for it's card art. I love card art in general. But I remember reading an old old old old magazine (but new at the time) about a guy who won a tournament with a, I think, Mongoose deck or something.

I was like "Why play the game if you end up just using the same cards all the time? What's the point of the other ones?". Then I realised it was tournament play and wasn't something that should surprise me.

Still love it. Can anybody remember that deck? I'm sure it was around 15 years or so ago.
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>>44627980
>stopped playing magic shortly after revised
>back then it took some thinking to build good decks
>now it's just two card "i win" combos and three card "fuck you combos"
>watch the prices rise astronomically

At least with my stupid plastic army men I can still play even fifteen years later.
>>
>>44630189
What if you have no friends who play Magic
>>
>>44627980
>>Still has his 400 dollars worth of orks he has been using and adding to since 1995 for 3rd ed 40k.

If only the game was as good as back then. Ah well still a good long term investment.
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>>44630224
Pic related?
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>>44631523
Yeah I think that's it.

Plus this card.
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>>44630498
Then make some friends, obviously. Why are you playing when you're not playing with people?
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>>44628876
>>44630124
>>44627980
A good, competitive Modern deck can be made for as little as $100. Standard slightly more so than that, EDH even less.

>>44629918
Find a better shop.

>>44630498
Not MTG's fault.
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>>44627980
It's pretty shit that power is based on rarity.

Rarity is just an artificial constraint on supply to raise prices, the fact that you have to buy cards at random (or second hand) is retarded. Wizards should just sell every card directly online for ยข15.

But that would outrage the second hand market kiddies and the bafflingly large number of people that LIKE the rng.
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>>44631643
>power is based on rarity.
Found the standard player.
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>>44631643
Rarity based power in standard sets is mainly for limited based environments
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>>44630089
Buying garbage doesn't make you rich, or smart.
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This is why so many people have moved on to LCGs. There is a variety of them for whatever your taste is, and their sale model is so much less bullshit than any CCG. No matter how much money you have (or don't have), so long as you can drop $12 on the latest pack once a month, you have the same exact cardpool as even the richest player.

Not to mention that Magic is already an outdated card game that has to constantly invent new formats to keep people interested in its old and busted design.
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>>44627980
Then don't play fucking standard you asswipe. Invest like 500$ in a modern deck (which will get you for example Scapeshift, Mono Black Eldrazi, Living End, Bogles, Ad Nauseam, Death And Taxes, Mono U Tron, Jund Makeshift, Living Twin, Soul Sisters, Naya Allies) and then you can play that for however long you want, or until something gets banned (which those decks will probably not). 500$ is not that much for a deck you can play for years if you are an adult.
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>>44633415
>constantly invent formats
Riddle me this you fucking ignorant elitist poorfag. How many formats have been invented in the last 5 years?
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>>44633831
$500 for a single deck is a stupid investment when you can get a game system and a few games (each of which will probably give you anywhere from 30 to 100+ hours of enjoyment) for that price.

Admittedly if you plan on playing that deck all the time forever and never playing any other deck, it's less retarded of an investment, but realistically most people like to mix it up from time to time, meaning you're actually looking at having 2-3 decks, or spending $1500. And that's discounting any number of other internal or external factors.
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>>44634377
when I compare it to my other hobbies I don't mind spending that much on MTG.

$500-$1000 for a new deck every few months isn't that bad compared to $250-$350/mo on ammo.
>>
>>44629918
>jumped the shark a decade ago
Then why the fuck do you patrol these threads?
>>44631643
No it isn't
>>44633415
Everything you're saying is wrong
>>44634377
You can resell your cards for 50% value at worst, you can't do that with a PlayStation 4 3-4 years from now
>>
>>44634521
>50% value at worst
I'm not sure what luck you've had, but I've never seen cards that weren't actively meta (and not Reserved List) sell for anything more than 10%-25% of their original value.

Unless you're talking about selling off a deck that IS actively meta, in which case I can see where you're coming from, even if I don't agree with that particular value.
>>
>>44634609
Where do you see people sell cards? Bulking Commons and uncommons at gps can be about 10 cents a common and 25-50 respectively.
If I sell my 4 goyfs I'm not getting 10% for them. As well you said 500 for a deck to play forever, 500 can Get you a very decent deck in modern, and modern decks can be sold whole for at least 50%
>>
>>44634670
I use pucatrade to get rid of shitty rares and get okay rares

I sell valuables on eBay
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>>44634749
That's smart thinking, even on eBay a good rare can go for 60-100% value
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>>44627980
I've accepted that Standard will never be fun to play again but the state of modern staples is pretty disgusting. I already own Jund and was building Twin because my meta is full of Tron decks, the day after I bit the bullet and decided to buy Tarns they absolutely explode in price. I understand that Wizards can only react to price changes so quickly but for fuck's sake they should know what cards are staples and which staples are in desperate need of an increase in supply so they aren't as easily manipulated by greedy fucks.
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>>44631643
The most powerful card in Legacy is a common that has been printed in multiple sets
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>>44631625
A passable, competitive Modern deck can be made for as little as $100.
A good deck is a fair deal more expensive if you don't already have a land base.
>>
Does anybody play pauper?
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>>44635723
>$100
Maybe for creatureless mono red burn, a tier 6 deck at best
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>>44635907
I do, got five decks costing me around $100. Feels good.
>>
>>44635907
Yup. I play UW tron in pauper.
Modern i'm on merfolk, and DnT in legacy.
>>
Remember to buy Chinese counterfeit cards.
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I wouldn't have an issue with standard if it was back to innistrad levels but BFZ and Khans has made standard unplayable for me. I'm not wasting money on a garbage format that isn't fun.

I'm a little mad though that a year ago I could have finished my affinity deck for about 200 bucks and now it's jumped to like 400 because of Arcbound ravagers price.
>>
Having fetchlands and fetchable duals both available has ruined Standard. Everyone plays hideously expensive 4-color decks that just run every good card because the manabase is so efficient.
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>>44627980
If rich kids are the only ones who can afford to get into the game, then yeah, it is for rich kids only.

As it turns out, playing the game has now made me a rich kid, so that feels good.
>>
>>44630124
Get a real job. I was able to finance a pimped out Cube on the salary of a store clerk over the course of a year or so.
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>>44636584
This.

There is a ridiculous amount of blowback to these cards though. Most importantly, it is rude to the storekeeper. They're providing space to play on the premise that you buy their shit. People who buy their shit at Walmart and Target but play at the store are pretty shitty, the same goes for people who buy proxies (myself included).

However, card prices are fucking ridiculous. All the proxies I got nobody can tell they're fake. I bought into Legacy and Modern for about $300 plus another $100 for real commons and uncommons that round out decks. Wizards is the only group that can fix this problem but they won't because they've essentially bought all the voices and pros in the community with their marketing dollars.
>>
Limited Magic is one of the best games ever.
Constructed Magic is one of the worst games ever.
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>>44635907
Wouldn't pauper decks vary on which sets/blocks you use? I mean some cards are common in one set and uncommon with another, not against the idea of pauper but this keeps me from building one
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>>44635512
You mean an uncommon printed once with a judge promo foil.
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>>44637253
How could you possibly think that? Limited is even more luck dependant than constructed
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>>44637357
>Thinking force of will is actually more powerful than brainstorm
Here's how I can tell you don't know shit about legacy
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>>44630498
Then play the Microprose game. Or play against yourself.
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>>44627980
Don't play standard then? Modern is much more fun.
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>>44633895
Lol the mtg players are getting really mad that their game is dying
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>>44627980
Fuck.

Off.

$600 is literally nothing for a hobby.

Standard is fucking trash anyway, who cares?

>>44629918
Sounds like you're just playing in the wrong scene. You are the problem.

>>44630680
The game is still that good. There is nothing stopping you from playing the game the way you like it but yourself. Fuck off.

>>44631643
hi bab

>>44633415
How does it werk

>>44634377
WHY ARE YOU HERE

>>44635496
just buy stoneman you wanker

>>44637581
(you)
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>>44627980
>Standard is too expensive

Fucking Modern is too expensive
Buyouts happening everyday now.
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>>44637322
If a card was ever printed as a common it's allowed in Pauper. Use Gatherer to find out a card's rarity.
>>
It is indeed to expensive.

Mythics was about the worst thing that ever happened to the game. Mostly quit after that, then after seeing what happened to Tarmogyf (and other cards like it) after Modern Masters came out quit playing completely.

Sold all my MTGO shit and cashed in the tickets to put together a few sweet EDH decks and I just play that with friends every few months.

Also the competitive playerbase is the most cancerous gaming community I've ever witnessed.
>>
Well this thread was eye opening, I have never seen so many accusations of 'poorfag' in such a short space of time. Are you people really so pathetic you got personally offended when OP says the game costs too much for no good reason?

Hurr durr get a job is not an argument, hurr durr all hobbies are expensive is not an argument.
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>>44637360
>You have to adapt on the fly with your own skill; no matter how much you learn, every Limited event you have to use your brain
>$10 for the cheaper events, which usually run several hours, show me that kind of value
>If you're actually good the cost plummets; anecdotally, if you're good enough to consistently place you very nearly play for free
>if you have friends who play the same format have some fun later throwing around draft decks
>yeah the strongest player won't win 100% consistently but let's be real you're not one of the people who makes a literal living from Limited
Learn to fun, breh.
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>>44639816
Does anyone have that comic of a man being asked why he pays such a huge amount of money to shovel shit into his mouth and his only response is to laugh and call them poor for not wanting to spend money on his pile of horse shit? It's basically that.
I still play Magic and I still have a lot of fun with it but calling people poorfags has always been a retarded justification.
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>>44640340
>$10 for hours of fun. Show me that kind of value.

I bought skyrim in a steam sale for 10 or 20 bucks, and got 500 hours out of it. Even more if you include the hobbyist side of it with modding.

Even limited prices/fun duration ratio is too damn high. Though I agree with you that it's better than most other areas of magic.
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>>44640545
Aight, fair. Solo stuff is way better time value. But for social, out-and-about stuff, this is right up there with a trip to the zoo; certainly compares favorably to the price of a film ticket, which I admit I'm pretty arbitrarily using as a benchmark of "things anybody not in abject poverty can afford at LEAST occasionally". I'm fairly comfortable (living at home), but I have very little disposable income and even I played for some time (and probably will again).
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>>44640564
You get better value from any PnP RPG then.

I think wizards is being too clammy with their toys.

The reserved list is killing legacy and vintage.

Modern prices are inflated because reprints don't happen fast enough, and when they do, they're strictly limited so as to not significantly effect the secondary price.

Standard is a constant upkeep, and you have to constantly rebuild your mana base.

EDH is fun, but hampered by the reserved list again.

Limited is also great fun, but you don't actually build anything meaningful from it. Generally speaking, a good limited deck will be full of unplayable shit in constructed. When the limited does allow you to build meaningful things from it (modern masters), store owners jack up the price of the packs to absurd levels.

WotC is enabling all this by choking the life out of eternal and semi eternal formats like Legacy and Modern. They need to let the good cards be reprinted more often.

Also, mana. Mana reprinting policies need to be seriously reconsidered. Standard players should not have to constantly throw hundreds of dollars down to even have a proper mana base every update.

WotC should follow their own NWO, and stop limiting all the good lands to rare. Good dual colored lands should be available at common or uncommon, while rare lands should be reserved for complicated lands.
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>>44637360
Goddamn it's hard to find a dumber comment than this
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>>44627980
it's funny to assume that you HAVE to spend that much just to play a card game rather than you CAN

i like playing this more or less as a hobby with some friends and family with cards costing as about a tenth of what you're saying a "good" deck would cost. This would make sense in tournaments where people will definately devote a lot of time and money to get the best cards out of it but anything else than that? completely unnecessary. you can get as much fun or even more with far cheaper decks than that at a night game with buddies.
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>>44633895
>elitist poorfag
lol
>>
>>44640782
this

OPs image claiming it takes $1000 to get into EDH is willfully retarded. you can make a competitive EDH deck for $20plus shipping
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>>44639768
>Also the competitive playerbase is the most cancerous gaming community I've ever witnessed.
Ahahahahahah. Look at league of legends . Magic pro scene is pretty okay
>>
>>44640817

Literally just build Heartless Hidetsgu
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>>44640817
Post this mythical $20 competitive EDH list so that I may laugh.
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>>44640828

>pro scene

I'm talking about the majority of people I encounter in local events such as prereleases or FnM.
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>>44637686
>$600 is literally nothing for a hobby.
You're fucking retarded mate. That $600 isn't a final purchase, it's the first investment to a constant stream of purchases until you're blown a shitload of money on what are in the end, images printed on paper used solely for a single game. For that amount of money you could buy an OK rifle and spend pennies in comparison on ammunition to get good at blasting shit. Or buy enough shit on Steam and GOG to set you up for a god damn decade. Fuck even 40k isn't that bad in comparison because models don't suddenly get completely invalidated and require you to buy a whole different army. TCG's are just cancer and the people who buy into them and make excuses like you are simply deluding themselves so they don't suddenly realize they blew a shitload of money on shit.
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>>44640830
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mikaeus-extreme-sub-20-budget-edh/
>>
>>44640867
>spend pennies on ammo
straight up lies

>$600 buy you enough videogames for a decade
it'll cost $600 for a competent PC as a first investment

>40K
>doesn't invalidate your army every update
>>
>>44640886
>no sol ring
>no mana crypt
>no mox opal
>no chrome mox
>no dark ritual
>no cabal ritual
>no LED
>no thoughtsieze
>no cabal therapy
>no demonic tutor
>no vampiric tutor

Instead, you get such stellar and competitive cards as:

>pith driller
>spin crusher
>diabolic tutor.

This list is not competitive. Any tuned, vintage singleton list will beat it 4 out of 5 times.
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>>44640898
PCs are something you need anyways, and you can get a competent gaming PC for 400 dollars.

Or you could get a competent emulating/web browsing/shitposting laptop for 150.
>>
>>44640898
I mean pennies in comparison to hundreds of dollars on TCG's that get invalidated builds constantly. Unless you like to shoot some REAAAL exotic shit like .264 magnum, ammo is cheap as hell for .22lr.

>it'll cost $600 for a competent PC as a first investment

Unless you're living under a rock, you should already have a computer of running most modern games before getting into gaming by virtue of living in a first world nation and having a job.

>doesn't invalidate your army every update

As a 40ker, it doesn't unless you get skipped like the Dark Eldar for several editions. But for Space Marines, Eldar, Necrons, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Tau, etc you basically buy the single hot new model that just came out to add to your army once every year or two after building your army up several years ago.

I mean there are Orks and Tyranids, but their armies have been consistently shit for a while to the point that the codices themselves are invalid.
>>
>>44634377

I built living end at the very beginning, spending around 100 euro (150 dollars at the time)

I went out on top of it, that deck probably won me well over 500 euros
>>
>>44640930
>you basically buy the single hot new model that just came out to add to your army once every year or two after building your army up several years ago.
That's literally what I do with jund. Latest change was adding a single card. The deck has always been good and just gets one card tweeks here and there. Only time wizards invalidated a whole deck was pod and even then, now we have podless pod.
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>>44640951
I've been thinking about making Living End too.
Can i see your decklist? I wanna know a good sideboard.
Im mainly missing only Living Ends.
>>
>>44631966
Gameplay wise, rarity is control the power level of limited, but it also effects the prices of cards for constructed.

Serum Visions, a decade out of print card that's a four-of staple in practically any modern deck running blue, is $7.

Liliana of the Veil, a four year out of print card that usually sees play only in black control, is $90.

Why? Serum Visions was common, Liliana was mythic.
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>>44640911
>tier 1 is the only tier that matters!
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>>44640830

Apostole Atreus?
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>>44640911

> what is having fun
>>
>>44640961
I've heard with magic it's more like replacing your entire deck and builds get invalidated constantly. I don't play, I just pick up from what happens at my FLGS.
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>>44640974
Serum visions had significantly more printed as a common, there's a higher demand for Liliana because more people want her for other formats as well.
>>
>>44636584
This. Until Wizards puts their foot down to reign in secondary sellers, I have zero problem buying cards solely from chinese counterfeiters.

Wizards never will though. They're too busy riding the super-secret-foil-ultra-rare money train.
>>
Sell now
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>>44640993
It isn't that bad. Standard totally is like that which makes that format hot garbage, and don't ever play standard, but any format where cards don't roll out isn't all that bad. There's a huge entry cost and skill barrier to the game however and that needs to change
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>>44640977
>my deck can be competitive if I arbitrarily redefine what competitive means.

Have you seen my competitive Cephalid tribal modern deck?

It doesn't actually win, but that's only because I haven't found another tier 6 player yet.

>>44640983
>hey guys, here's this competitive list I made
>that's not competitive though, here's why
>fuck you, it's just for fun!

I don't know which of you posted that list to begin with, but both of you are retarded.
>>
ITT: salty poorfags
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>>44640993
It's called a meta, it's a thing that changes.

Once standard rotates your cards don't just disappear. Anyone who claims you need to pump $500+ into the game every standard rotation is a tryhard
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>>44641010
I'm guessing the guys at my shop play standard then.
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>>44640753
>Modern prices are inflated because reprints don't happen fast enough, and when they do, they're strictly limited so as to not significantly effect the secondary price.

We're reprinting Tarmagoyf! In a severely limited run! In a set that's $10 a pack! And it's mythic!
>>
>>44641011
I'm sorry we don't meet your requirements for vintage singleton, we'll be over here playing EDH
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>>44641042
Oh, that's cool, my vintage singleton list is actually EDH legal.
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>>44630124

Hey fuck you, Walmart pays my bills, for my Magic cards, AND my miniatures. Learn how to manage your money, retard.
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>>44641042
>my list can be competitive if I kick the people that regularly beat it out of the group.
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>>44640996
That's my point. Serum Visions being common made it more available, so it's cheaper. Liliana being mythic made it less available, so it's expensive. Rarity is a tool for limited, but outside of limited it effects availability which effects prices.
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>>44641030
Yeah I'm sure it's the guys who didn't invest thousands upon thousands of dollars into little pieces of card with pictures printed on them who are salty.
>>
>>44641067
Oh yeah you are right with that, the examples are Piss wrong because Liliana has significantly more playability outside of modern which effects her prices very differently, but rarity does effect pricing
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>>44641062
>If your deck isn't tier 1 is unplayable
>>
>>44641076
>drop a bunch of money on a hobby
>play a fuckload, get enjoyment with friends
>cards retain their value and can be used in other format when they rotate out
>yo-your're just salty you spent so much money to have fun!
>>
>>44627980
>500$ to play
Every hobby costs money. If you can't afford it it's either because your priorities lies elsewhere or because you have such severe financial issues that you shouldn'tt even consider getting into a hobby until they're sorted out.
>>
>>44641155
in a competitive environment yes it is
>>
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Including taxes, a full casual deck will cost you around seven bucks from any reasonable bulk card sellers. If you live in mid-southern US, try Vintage Stock. Half the ones I've been to don't even pay attention to the values of cards, so you'll find all sorts of good shit just by digging.
For example, my first time buying I found a badlands.

If you can't find them that way, Craigslist is excellent for bulk deals, even better when they aren't listed - those are the ones from old people who don't know the value!

Morally questionable? Yeah.
Financially valuable? Double yeah.
>>
>>44641155
No, but if your deck isn't tier 1, it isn't competitive.

Stop being obtuse. You can't buy into competitive EDH with 20 dollars. no matter how many retards your 20 dollars beats at the McDonalds Playplace you call your LGS.
>>
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>>44636584
>tfw man of stone saved me a bunch of bucks

I still hate him for the atrocious other enemy fetchlands though.
>>
>>44641259
fine! I'm still gonna spend $20, I'm still gonna play, and I'm still going to have fun
>>
>>44641259

Here I thought EDH was a just for fun format. I didn't realize there was actually a competitive scene now for 100-card highlander. I suppose if you introduce assholes to any format they can make it oppressive to play.
>>
>>44641285
>I didn't realize there was actually a competitive scene now
>now
It's been a thing for pretty much as long as EDH has been a thing.
>>
>>44641299

You do realize people like you drive people away from the game, yea?
>>
ITT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZvXiUlRWKg
>>
>>44641281
Okay.

I still have fun in vintage singleton competitive EDH too. Glad you like it, and your delusions of competence are gone.

>>44641285
Competitive EDH has been around for a while. Competitive singleton even longer.

I like the seven point system for regulating decks. Almost no cards are illegal, but they all have varying point costs. For instance, sol ring might cost 4 points, necropotence 3 points, and any of the moxes 4 points. Most cards cost 0 points.

You can only have 7 points in your deck. So you could have sol ring and necropotence, but not sol ring and a mox in your deck. I just wish I could get people to play it instead of the atrocity that is the multiplayer banlist.

>>44641317
you do realize that nothing of value is lost when people like you are driven away from the game yea?
>>
>>44640963

The mainlist is almost the same for everyone, I tend to be a little more heavy on lifegain due to the ridicolous amount of burn and aggro I have in my local playgroup.

x4 fulminator mage
x2 avalanche rider
x4 deadshot minotaur
x4 monstrous carab
x4 street wraith
x3 spike feeder
x2 shimian spirit guide
x2 pallid heremit
x2 valley ranneret
x1 jungle weaver

x4 violent explosion
x3 beast within
x3 demonic terror
x3 living end
x2 gnaw to the bone

x3 copperline gorge
x3 wooded foothills
x2 bloodstained mire
x2 forest
x2 overgrown tomb
x1 stomping ground
x1 temple garden
x1 blood crypt
x1 swamp
x1 mountain
x1 kessig's wolf run

Side is:

x3 ingot chewer
x3 ricochet trap
x3 leyline of the void
x2 shriekmaw
x2 gnaw to the bone
x1 anger of the gods

Been considering about switching the leylines for some more hate cards, like blood moons, and swapping the base mountain for an additional fetch or shock
>>
>>44641317
You mean to tell me that you've seiously never heard of French EDH?
>>
>>44641337
>You're just bad, unlike me who plays real magic

I've probably been playing longer than you kid. And I don't have an immovable rod up my ass about being a tryhard
>>
>>44641405
I never said casual magic wasn't real magic. But you are bad, because you suffered under delusions that your deck was competitive, when any good player could easily identify it as a joke.
>>
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>>44634749
I can attest to PucaTrade working well for your $1-2 rares, even your high value rares that you just can't seem to get rid of.

Pic is roughly $847 of value in trades.
>>
>>44631672
That's modern and legacy also.
>>
>>44640898
>$600
Way too cheap to be a gaming pc. If it isn't already it's gonna be completely outdated within the year.

>>44640920
>you can get a competent gaming PC for 400 dollars.
lol
>>
>>44633415
I played Thrones 1st edition for a long time. That game was an absolute mess in terms of rules. You think Magic gets complicated? You might have an aneurysm when you dig into the specifics of moribund.

Now, I haven't played 2nd edition yet, and it does sound like they cleaned a lot up, but that 1E clusterfuck will always stick with me and make me hesitant to go back. They did get rid of Greyjoy choke though, which I'm glad about. Believe me that a well-designed 1E choke deck is more evil than anything Magic could ever hope to muster in terms of dickery.
>>
is naya burn tier 2 ?
>>
>>44641626
a lot of high value puca sellers are frauds hawking their china proxies
>>
>>44641741
>Believe me that a well-designed 1E choke deck is more evil than anything Magic could ever hope to muster in terms of dickery.
Now I'm interested, please explain
>>
>>44641716
400 bucks is enough to beat current gen console specs. You won't max out graphics, but you will be able to run all current gen games.
>>
>>44641741
>You think Magic gets complicated? You might have an aneurysm when you dig into the specifics of moribund.
I've seen a level 3 and level 4 judge discuss hard rulings. Please explain
>>
>>44627980
Just play with fakes.
>>
>>44629918
>It's pretty shit, MTG went from "fun card game to dick around with at the FLGS" to "literally everyone is competitive, don't even show up if you're not running a netdeck that costs more than a beater car on craigslist".

But it did that in 1996. The game came out when I went into middle school and was ruined by it's fan base by the time I made it to high-school. It had the life span of every other CCG. It then just would not die.
>>
>>44641811
Hoo boy, this might take a minute

So AGOT is a game of resources. You get a set amount of gold to spend each turn (barring any bonuses from cards on the field). Choke takes away ALL OF IT. Make it Winter to reduce gold each turn by 1. Drain or steal their gold bonuses with attachments. Play characters that steal whatever gold they have left. They can pay for literally nothing. AND, you take away their initiative so they can never go first (it alternates each round in AGOT). Meanwhile you never have to worry because a well-built choke deck never wants for gold, their characters are cheap with good effects.

The worst part? There's no hand size limit in 1st edition, so you can be sitting there with a 25 card hand and be able to play nothing but 0-cost cards, and they'll do nothing for you because they have nothing to interact with. It's an awful archetype to play against. I had a choke deck that I'd break out for tournaments, and I made no friends using it. If you ever lose to GJ in 2E, be glad there's no Choke.
>>
>>44636584
Does anyone have experience buying from swzheng99?
>>
>>44641877
That doesn't sound complex at all man. Magic is a game of resources and resource denial is a huge aspect of the game. There's multiple ways of just stopping an opponent from doing anything. I mean a simple combo players do is mindslaver lock that lets you play their turn for them. What's worse than not being able to do anything? Not being able to do anything while someone does the worst things possible for your and then beats you and gets to look at and write down your sideboard. There's turbofog that's a killjoy to play against and there's also winter orb effects. Im probably underestimating this game of yours but that's not an overly complex situation you're describing
>>
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>Weekly draft
>Costs less than a friday at the pub
>"muh bullshit overpriced gaem111"

Draft, trade, brew. It's not that demanding to keep up with standard at the FNM level. If you feel compelled to drop hundreds on a pro tour netdeck, that's your problem. The cost of the game hasn't changed that much, your attitude has.
>>
>>44641915
I never said that Choke was complex, I said Choke sucks ass to play against. Reason I like Thrones so much is because there's some crazy decktypes you can build, thanks to Agendas. Imagine being able to start your game with a hexproof Valakut in play. Or having what amounts to basically a second deck that you could use as a toolbox. Thrones had some really wild shit that you could build, and I wish Magic had stuff like Agendas, it would open up some really neat avenues for deckbuilding

Plus the multiplayer is so much better than MTG multiplayer. Board politics are built into the game and it makes for some amazing and ridiculous plays
>>
>>44627980
Who gives a fuck about formats and tournaments full of fat neckbeards? Just play it with friends like I do, it's a lot of fun.
>>
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>>44642004
>Imagine being able to start your game with a hexproof Valakut in play
This would break Magic. There has to be a downside to these Agendas, holy shit.
>>
>>44627980
>pic in the OP is a reddit meme
>128 replies and 6 images omitted
>>
>>44641820
Pshh, unless you can run Witcher 3 at max, you can't call yourself a reeeeeaaal PC master gamer
>>
>>44642041
There is. Thrones has what's called a setup phase, in which you draw 7 cards, put down 5 gold worth of locations (lands) and characters (creatures). The Agenda, House of Dreams, only allows for 6 cards and 3 gold worth of stuff, so you start at a disadvantage but your location will start putting in work for you the second the game starts. I had a deck that netted you +1 gold for each instance of a certain character type on the board, and I'd be drowning in gold by Turn 2 or 3
>>
>>44641929
>Costs less than a friday at the pub

Wizards took away all the sanctioned events in my city, and we have no LGS, so drafts are literally Monday nights at the pub and EDH is Tuesday nights at the pub.
>>
>>44641806
Would be a hell of a bad investment then since people rarely send expensive cards.
And I've yet to see a proxy come my way, unless youre a dickweed who sends proxies to people.
>>
>>44641803
Solid Tier 1.
>>
>>44642439
>playing Magic at the pub
Never ever
>>
Holy shit, Inquisition of Kozilek shot up like a rocket. Wizard's really don't give a shit anymore do they?
>>
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feels good
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>>44641851
I don't get where this idea that netdecks haven't been around since 97. FNM is fairly new, and is supposed to be reasonably competitive. What people remember is playing with their friend's, which isn't exactly FNM
>>
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>>44629918
>>44641851
>>
>>44641851
>it had the life span of every other CCG
>it then just would not die
Anon, if it hasn't died, that means it's still alive.
Why the fuck does anyone play competitive Magic?
>go to one or two drafts per set with friends
>never buy singles
>trade internally and sometimes online with the draft cards we got
>rotate with standard
>occasionally change our rotation rules just for fun
>toss together EDH decks from old favorites
>everyone has 2-5 decks built at any given time
It's like you all don't want to agonize over whether you're willing to trade your good kill spells to your friend for a planeswalker. It's like you don't want the tension of deciding to draft an awesome rare for your constructed deck, or taking the safer option to have a better draft deck. It's like you don't want to have a deck on the back burner waiting for the last three copies of the build-around card you want, getting prize packs of the set that contains it every time you win anything at FNM. It's like you hate fun.
>>
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>People complaining about prices when it's easy to just drive out to some card shop you never plan on going to again and stealing one or more decks or binders
It's like you guy are new to card games or something
>>
>>44655673
we dont play yugioh
>>
>>44655673
Theres a guy that I know at an LGS who has a 10K Jund deck.
I would try to do something but I like that LGS.
>>
>>44629918
>with the shitty deviantart level art direction
Insult to deviant art.
>>
>Standard is rotating too frequently
Only the really point I disagree with.
No, I would rather not have to deal with Abzan Midrange or Jeskai Black for 2 years at a time. People got bored of Abzan Midrange after only a few months.
>>
>>44657557
Well standard is rotating faster which in theory should have meant cheaper card prices but in actuality jack shit has changed meaning you are flat out playing with your cards in standard some 6 months less than you did before.

The issue is people have been playing Abzan for a long ass time now. Even with completely different cards in from rotations because mana has been insanely good and WOTC refuses to print any sort of multicolor punishers its still basiaclly been a deck since Theros. A Back to Basics reprint or Dwarven Blastminer would have gone a long ass way to giving some validity to people playing 1-2 color decks.
>>
>>44655357
I don't understand them either, anon.

>Plays CCG
>Hates collecting
>Hates trading
>Hates deckbuilding and limited by extension
>Can't enjoy a game without winning easily and/or being in the top power bracket
>>
>>44658478
People can enjoy different aspects of things
>>
Anyone have any experience selling on ebay our of the US? Basically I want to sell Americans my Expeditions.
>>
>>44633831
>Soul Sisters
>$500
What. Other than Serra Ascendant (~$20), Path, and Ranger of Eos (~$10 each) everything in Soul Sisters is like $1-$2 tops. You could get a solid Mono-W Soul Sisters deck for $150. It's admittedly not T1, but still.

You also didn't mention RDW, which while it's in most cases better to splash at least one of white or green, can be built for sub $200 if you drop Blood Moon or Goblin Guide.
>>
personally I just wish there weren't so many "I must win a casual game at all cost" tossers out there.
Literally none of my friends are interested in MTG and I don't have anything local. Nearest is a 2 hour train journey away, more by car.
Been having to play MTGO quite a bit and it's just... christ. People take it so fucking seriously.
>>
>>44659142
Eh, I've never seen a RDW deck outside of Burn, but even so its probably best to stick to a Boros or Naya build.
Alternatively a Red budget Zoo is possible if you don't want to purchase Goyfs, but Fetches and Shocks will still be expensive for someone who isn't looking to spent at least $300 imo.
>>
>>44641340
>No Groves
>No Cliffs

Hows that wonky manabase?
>>
>>44627980
Honestly, its only expensive if you're the very competitive type. I enjoy taking homebrew decks to FNM. I don't usually 3-0 but I very rarely 0-3. I enjoy the challenge, the company, and the just playing the game.

Plus, if you spend a couple years playing limited regularly, you'll have enough in trade to Pucatrade yourself into a more competitive deck, which I'm currently trying, successfully, with a Modern Tron deck.
>>
>>44627980
MaRo just confirmed no Legendary Duals ever because it "breaks the spirit of the resserved list".
>>
>>44663381
>just confirmed
He's said that for years now.
>>
>>44654869
I don't get it, did this person's group of friends not know how to play the game back in high school? Why would he complain about someone summoning Morphling after his 1 cost 1/1 unless this was turn one?
>>
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>>44663381
>maro doesn't want to go against the spirit of the reserved list
>as if anyone besides "muh investment" shitfuckers even want the reserved list adhered to at all
>>
>>44663599
The point is that casual is inherently inbalanced and that the decks you played in high school consisted of nothing but shitty cards with the possible exception of the one of the one or two bomb rares you happned to have.

But the one major point is that casual simply sucks.
>>
>>44663649
Maro doesn't like the reserved list either. He thought he could surely get ridof it when he started working for WotC. Turns out it's the legal department that are against removing it and that their argument is very convincing.
>>
>>44648473
>what are playmats
>what is not being an incompetent shit that spills their drink over everything
>>
>>44656948
>10k Jund deck
Is that even possible? Or is he playing legacy with beta duals?
>>
>>44663700
I could buy that if it wasn't for the foil clause.

For years, Wizards had the ability to reprint things from the reserved list as foils. It was written clearly into the rules of the reserved list. They did it multiple times - Karn Silver Golem, Yawgmoth's Will, Survival of the Fittest, etc, all have modern frame reprints despite being reserved.

But then, after years of it being this way, investment-fags complained, so Wizards modified the reserved list to remove the clause that lets them do these reprints.

Wizards isn't just begrudgingly sticking to the list as written, or sticking to the spirit of it to avoid problems. They have gone out of their way to actively modified the list in favor of investment-fags.
>>
>>44663691
>casual simply sucks
Confirmed for having a shit group.
>>
>>44663870
Because that's the source of the legal troubles. WotC believes that by not sticking to the spirit of their word, even if they follow the letter, they might incite legal actions being taken from retailers and collectors, and that no matter how likely WotC are to win such a case that it would cost them far more than they would earn. In the case of promo reprints they changed their own rules to clarify that they wouldn't be doing it again.
>>
>>44640753
>downside to limited is that you don't build anything 'worthwhile'
this is a dumb critizism
>>
>>44641155
If everyone in a meta knows that strategy X has a high success rate against the field, and you choose to use strategy Y which has a poor win rate against strategy X, then you are objectively making a bad decision.

I'm all for people having fun however they want to have fun, but if your trying to be competitive and arnt playing a tier 1 deck you are doing it wrong.
>>
>>44664608
Card synergy isn't just about pure efficiency you know. It's genuinely fun to use interactive decks, which is something limited environments usually hinder.
>>
>>44629918
>"literally everyone is competitive, don't even show up if you're not running a netdeck that costs more than a beater car on craigslist".

I only have two LGSs within reasonable distance, and in both places asking someone if they want to play a game is met with a response along the lines of "Which format, Standard or Modern?".

A shame too, because both players and staff are really nice, everyone just seems to play top tier decks exclusively.
>>
>>44627980
>This game is bullshit.

God forbid you play casually amongst your friends...
>>
>>44630232
This. I started playing around zendikar/scars of mirodin. I used to play with my friend's cards and decided it was time I get my own.

I had fun with innistrad, return to ravnica and dragons of tarkir but damn that new way of doing things killed it for me.

I'll keep playing with friends but I doubt i'll ever buy new cards
>inb4 what am I going to do with my disposable income
>>
>>44651514

Any fakes or all legit? If legit, then neat. If fakes then, eh, I'd be too worried about getting caught by elitist neckbeards who do deck checks to do it myself, but good luck.
>>
>>44668978
It's all legit.
>>
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>>44669392
>not being able to afford beta dual lands
>settling for white-bordered trash
>>
>>44630498
Find another hobby, or be more social
>>
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>>44669483
>he's never tasted the grapes

lel
>>
>>44669392

Neat.

Used to play Legacy back in 2007-2010, then took a break from the game due to life stuff. When I got back into it in 2012, prices had gone way up compared to what I was used to, and the only local place had Modern, Standard, EDH and Limited as the only formats anyone played, so I sold my Legacy collection to make a pretty decent Modern collection. Now I'm slowly making Lands, which was my dream deck back in the day that I couldn't afford as a poor student. Hilarious how the cards are so much more expensive than back in '10, but it's way more affordable now.
>>
>>44659142
I just named the decks I could think of for 500$ or under.
>>
>>44627980
Go and work
>>
>>44670766
I do work, and so do most of us who play, the point is we shouldn't have to pay more than $500USD for a deck that rotates out in 6 months, or $1,000-3,000 for a deck that doesn't rotate out, or 500-1500$ for a mostly casual only format.

Think of the things you could spend $500-$3,000 on instead.

such as,
down payment for a new car.
first and last months rent for a new apartment
pay off credit card debt
pay for college/univeristy fees
pay for brand new furniture
save for the future
buy a brand new 50+ inch smart tv
buy a brand new computer
home improvement

and many many more things!

but noo, instead lets spend it on fucking cardboard.
>>
I have no such problem. The FLGSM is a bro who despises high prices on the things he enjoys. Sells booster packs and other stuff at around 3/4th the price in other stores.
>>
>>44671819
If you need money for all those things then you should probably not spend your money on a hobby.

Personally I can all afford all those things and still have money over to play Magic.
>>
>>44665058
This is precisely my problem with MtG. I first started because all of my friends in college played, and we were all hyper casual. We only got cards from boosters and trading, and we saw buying singles as being in poor taste. It was some of the most fun I've ever had playing the game. Sure the decks were shitty, but we didn't know any better and we were all equally shitty.

Now that group has scattered across the country and we can't play each other anymore. If I want to play Magic, I have to go to fnm, where everybody plays competitive decks. I've gotten leagues better as a player, but I've spent a stupid amount of money, and it's nowhere near as fun or interesting. Even EDH, a format designed initially as casual, Unpredictable fun, is full of tryhards, and half of every deck is made up of identical staples and tutors that completely invalidates the point of making a 100-card Singleton deck.

Now I only ever play Magic if I can get a group together to draft my cube.
>>
>>44669726
I was fortunate enough to get a lot of Legacy staples around 2002-2006, before shit got really insane. I'm sort-of getting more into Pauper these days, but again the good shit tends to be really hard to get ahold of at not-rape prices.
>>
>>44640340
Yeah but if somebody is bad at drafting they can still fuck over your deck.
>>
>>44655673
I just want you to know I've seen one of your types get shot before. Don't do this in FNMs where the owner of the store is packing heat, thanks 'Murica.
>>
>all the MtG fanboys ITT defending their pay2win bullshit

How does it feel spending tens of thousands of dollars on bits of mass-produced cardboard with ink?
>>
>>44675771
I bring my gun with me m8. A shoot out just means more cards for me in the end.
>>
You guys are right fuck second hand sellers
Where the fuck can i buy some proxies
>>
>>44676209
like i say, its just a matter of time before they perfect the method of reproducing cards and it will be all but impossible to tell the difference between real and fake.

then what? suddenly 100's of thousands of dual lands start getting played and traded at fnm, and it spreads to high level competition?

magic prices are a bubble. and we know what happens with bubles.
>>
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>>44676500
Dual lands bugging you? Try ruination!
>>
>>44630498
Play draft and/or sealed at FLGSs
>>
>>44640911
>tuned vintage singleton
>vs multiplayer commander on an extreme budget
I bet you like playing Legacy decks against Conspiracy draft decks too.
>>
>>44641337
Which points list do you use?
>>
>>44675867
It's fucking amazing
Thread replies: 201
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