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Your spaceship is traveling through an unknown quadrant and will take seventy years to reach Earth without alien technology or wormholes or something. On your first day, you meet a smuggler who lied to you and put your crew in danger so he could rescue his girlfriend. He offers to come and share his knowledge of this area with you. What do you do?
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>>44573418
Morale is an essential if intangible factor in the survival equation. My morale, that is.

Take him aboard and torture the crew with his horrible personality.
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>>44573418

Put him in the brig.
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>>44573418
Space him.
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>>44573418
Fuse him with one of my crew to make a more tolerable individual than either of them
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>>44573418
depends how hot his girlfriend is, obviously. If she's super-hot then clearly they can come aboard. The majority of the audie.... crew are young, single men, so they'll need a pair of tits to keep their interest while we act fucking retarded for seven years straight. If she's only moderately hot, but the only other females available are a brain-damaged middle aged woman and a klingon whose whole shtick is that she'll crush your nuts for talking to her, let them aboard. Then, after three years has passed, kick the chick off and replace her with one that's really hot. Like, seriously, absolute 10/10, one that makes the first chick look like a teenage boy. This will improve morale considerably. But keep the smuggler around for some reason; maybe just in case you need someone to fuse to your security chief that will make it an actual moral quandary whether to try and save two people's lives at the expense of one person's life.
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>>44573418
Keep the girlfriend, throw the dude out with his trash shuttle.
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>>44573802
Eat Harry.
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>>44573418

I give him an honorable death.
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>>44573418
No wormholes? Well, I'm out.
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>>44574330
Didn't literally everyone like Tuvix more than either of the originals?
How much must it suck to know that your own friends hate you more than an abomination?
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>>44574483
Man that guy creeps me out.
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Keep him, but make it absolutely clear that he's only useful for his knowledge of the region. He is not to leave the ship without an armed escort. If he tries to do anything without my explicit permission, I'll have him vented into space or marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead planet. Buried alive... buried alive...
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>>44573418
I call the shuttle before the tater clown finds me.
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Space the girl.
Amputate the smuggler's arms & legs and give him to the crew for their amusement.
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Scour his computer banks for any and all relevant information on the area we're in.
Assess whether there's any further value in information he can provide
If yes - put them to work
If no - brig and break down his ship for useful components, deliver them to most suitable planet.
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>>44574488
Wait! Scorpy! There's a naturally occurring wormhole you could study close to their destination. If you joined their crew and helped them get home you could study it.
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Accept his help, but if I ever catch him lying again, he's gone.
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>>44574396
>Like, seriously, absolute 10/10
Like seriously overrated, 7/10 on a good day. Given a choice, I would definitely fuck the teenage boy. Or the nut-crushing Klingon, for that matter.
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>>44573418
He's obviously a PC.
Drag him along until he manages to get himself killed.
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>>44573418

>seventy years

I'm not spending the rest of my life listening to some bullshit space tour guide tell me about "this area". All organic crew and passengers are going into cryostasis. I'll hand him into the proper authorities once we get back to Terra Prime.
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>>44574512
>Didn't literally everyone like Tuvix more than either of the originals?
Yes.

And they still killed him while he begged for his life, because reasons.
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>>44573418
I'll be a hypocritical retard who demands people share their technology with you and refuse to do the same. Then bitch at the unfairness of it all when they tell me to fuck off.

Also I'll mood swing to the point of schizophrenia.

And put the obnoxious smuggler in a minor position of authority.

Then, when everyone's sick of his attempts to improve moral, punish the navigator for running a lottery game as alternative entertainment.

What's that? My chief engineer has just been abducted by the though police and is going to be lobotomized because she had unfriendly thoughts? Better play along with their retarded laws even though she is one of the most irreplaceable members of the crew.
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>>44580790
Because if you could murder one stranger to save the lives of two friends, I think you would too. And even if you wouldn't, it's an interesting moral quandary with no right answer.
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>>44581173
>Bitch about the unfairness
Actually, she goes "right, the other side of the prime directive. We rarely get our own morals in the face. Oh well, move on then". And the "punish the navigator" bit was a big setup, if you recall, trying to sell him leaving the ship to catch a spy.
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>>44581595
>two friends

No.

one oath-breaker and one criminal.

Half the crew despised Tuvok because of the turn coat traitor that he was and most of the crew either had brain damage or must have been barely tolerating Nelix.
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>>44578810
I'd say more of a 7/9 personally.
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>>44581611
And it was a poorly executed story.

Him genuinely leaving because he didn't like most of the crew would have been better. But we can't have any personal conflict in the perfect utopian future in the super perfect federation.

And setting up an alternative and slightly suspect entertainment option would have been a good continuing theme. Maintaining and hiding the still from the vulcan could have been one of his unofficial jobs.
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>>44574396
>depends how hot his girlfriend is, obviously.

Don't you have an alternate universe to run into the ground Kirk?

>a klingon whose whole shtick is that she'll crush your nuts for talking to her

Until invisible aliens decide to hook her up with the ships pilot.
That, actually wasn't that bad of a concept, even if it was basically another "The Doctor and/or Seven save the day" episode.
Or possibly because of that.
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>>44581735
Any episode that where the Doctor took a leading role was good.

If only by contrast.
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>>44581786

I always liked the story about how Chekotay's actor kept trying to get himself written out of the show by asking for larger and larger raises each season, and Paramount just kept agreeing to them.

So, on the one hand he's forever tied into this terrible show... on the other he never has to work again.

The guy I feel most for though is Tim Russ who played Tuvok, that guy had been trying to get a main role in a Star Trek show for literally decades, he narrowly lost out to Levar in the audition for Geordie, had several bit parts in films and episodes, and when he finally DOES get his supposed big break?
It's for fucking Voyager.
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>>44581976
There's talk of a new series of Star Trek happening either this year or next. Maybe H e will get a not-shit part in that.
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>>44582006

Isn't he pretty busy with the MMO these days? A *lot* of the Voyager actors have done stuff for that.
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>>44582013
The only direction after Voyager would be upwards.

So much wasted potential.

Such a flat non-existence of a story arch.

So many 2nd hand ideas.

Such inconsistent/no-existent/dull characters.

And people got paid to write it.

I'm tempted to run a game of it now.

Crew members of Voyager or not!Voyager replacing the bridge crew from the show.

What system would you recommend? I know Trek has its own system but I've also heard its shit.

>inB4 GURPS
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>>44582065
Either Lasers and Feelings or GURPS.
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>>44581661
For me it was weird he wanted to leave or that one Indian criminal commander had a problem with him an episode or two after he broke Warp 10. He clearly proved himself to be a productive individual.

I'm on the third season and I still don't get why anyone accepted any of these Mockee whoever the fucks as anything other than the bottom line criminals. Especially since two of them turned out to be spies.

I was disappointed that one murderer crewmember didn't have a more vicious action scene where he murdered all those tall oompa loompa aliens
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>>44582225
The psychopath crew member was wasted talent.

He has played the evil mentant from the first Dune film, Brother Edward from Babylon 5, the scientist from Alien: Resurrection and Wormtongue from Lord of the Rings and probably other things as well.

But yes. It was also wasted character. He gets one episode where he is the main character, 2 brief appearances in other episodes then he gets shot in the gut and bleeds out in sickbay.

That episode where the ship gets boarded should have been all of his birthdays and Christmases turning up at once. A ship full of people with skulls to bop with a spanner and no negative consequences.
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>>44573418
Our crew are clones.
The Captain Vice-Admiral's name, CVA-Ellsah. Seven Hundred and Thirty-Six, is quite an important clue to understand.

The ship has been following it last orders to the letter for so long that nothing of the original crew remain. Clones are taught only what is essential to their position and anyone's ability to to think independently is a highly prised commodity.

CVA-Ellsah. Seven Hundred and Thirty-Six is less then impressed he was dishonest in his interaction, VC-Uhnna. Seven Hundred and Twelve is inclined to continue trusting this smuggler whilst the three redundant CVA-Ellsah supporting staff have reached an agreement with the three redundant VC-Uhnna supporting staff that his knowledge outweighs leaving him behind.
After consultation with the current forty-two independent thinkers of the crew and preying for guidance from Adrasteia, the ships AI system, it's decided that he and his girlfriend may move aboard.
Their actions will be monitored and there will be a guard, more ceremonial then actual, who'll escort them about the ship but otherwise they have relative free access about all the ship.

The primary and secondary cores, as well as medical bays 0003 through to 4007 are off limits, access granted by permission only.
Also access to medical bay 5031, 'The Gallery of Princesses' is only under genuine heavy guard.

Otherwise, do our two new guests wish to contribute any genetic samples for research?
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>>44582266
The worst part was we saw how Tuvok endured 'The Violence' as if it were some sentient hatred that drove men to relentlessly kill or destroy.
I was really ready for him to sneak around the ship and come up upon Oompa Loompas in similar situations that parallel his interactions to the crew, and then murdering them in the most horrible fashion. Maybe even doing some Vulcan death grip moves he absorbed from Tuvok.

But no. He walks into a room and tries really hard to press a button.
I needed a Saw movie level of violence from that man for an hour straight
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The answer is pretty simple.
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>>44582403
Great concept.
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>>44573864
Underrated response.
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>>44580790
>>44574512
>>44574330
>>44581595
It was one person with both of their friends inside. They murdered them both.
It was totally out of character for literally everyone on the crew to do that.

That episode is considered largely "non canon" by every single person, because of this.
Voyager had really good and really shit episodes. And the worst ones are so bad that the creators are embarrassed about them.

Threshold anyone? Where paris and janeway had alien kids in lizard form?

>pic related: a starfleet captain and her helmsman
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>>44583251
forgot pic
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>>44581595
The fucking hell I would, and no, morally there's really no option to do so. It'd be one thing if the stranger was threatening to kill my friends, but that's not the situation here. "Muh friendship and emotions" is not a moral stance.
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>>44583251
I didn't even see it as a moral quandary, Tuvix really wasn't even his own person.
He was just a walking mess of two people's memories and responses.
Was pulling apart a Vulcan & Faggot knot really murder?

The opening of the episode seemed like it was going to be a Neelix/Tuvok learning experience and they were going to have to get frustrated at each other trying to work a single body while doing something dangerous. Instead we get this shit about nothing happening, I can only assume Tuvok tuned out entirely and Neelix was in full coward mode and there was never a Tuvix
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>>44583403
>Was pulling apart a Vulcan & Faggot knot really murder?
He was a different person from both of the previous ones. They made that abundantly clear
he did not act like tuvok and he did not act like neelix either.
it's like saying that you're essentially just your parents genes mixed, so it's totally a-ok to kill you to get your parents back.

Especially since they could've done shit like duplicate him via a second transporter accident or something.

And if anything is capable of begging for its own life while also showing all signs of sentience, then yes that something should not be just disassembled.
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>>44574488
underrated post
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>>44582065
FATE/FAE.

I'm actually attempting to run one in Strike! because my players like tactical combat. I'm explaining the combat powers away by the federation experimenting with shit after the dominion wars.
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>>44583251
>Threshold
I'm still weirded out by that episode.
Janeway and Paris have lizard sex because FTL travel and evolution or something. Utterly insane.
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>>44583818
>evolution
The moment anyone in Star Trek mentions that word you know it's going to be a shit episode.
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>>44583251
The problem with Tuvix is that his murder could be justified: The ship needed Tuvok more than it needed Tuvix. They could undo the death of their security officer by killing a guy who might be likable, who might make a good security officer one day, but who is -basically- just a hitchhiker they picked up. The only downside is that you get Neelix back, too.

But the whole problem with Voyager is that they try to make Janeway out as this tough woman who makes the calls everyone else is afraid to make. Except they just jump to the conclusion without showing us the merit in her decision. Literally everything Janeway does is excused because it's Janeway doing it.

Threshold is a good example. Because what's the most cringeworthy part of that episode? Janeway telling Paris at the end that SHE probably initiated mating. Even in an episode where Janeway's ONLY function is to get kidnapped and sexed up, they have to give her her muh strong wimmin moment. And it's fucking grating.

Janeway made Voyager suck. No wonder kate Mulgrew hated Jeri Ryan, because Seven of Nine was everything that Janeway wasn't. Janeway was one of those characters who got carte blanche from the writers.
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>>44581735
>even if it was basically another "The Doctor and/or Seven save the day" episode.

No, it was another "Janeway's insanity saves the day" episode. The Doc and Seven doing their stuff made sense in the episode. The aliums can't get to the Doc because he's a piece of code, and they can't get to Seven because she's the odd-one-out character and it reaffirms how she's stuck between being Borg and Human.

For most of the episode Janeway is having a killer headache and becoming an unhinged bitch because of it. But only fucking Voyager would turn a headache into a superpower, by making Janeway taking an unacceptable risk that should have had Tuvok or the Doc relieve her of command.

>>44581976
Yeah, Tim Russ had a rough deal. And then he got his break, and Tuvok is one of the criminally underused characters of Voyager. Worse, he gets paired with Neelix the space gypsy, who keeps being overtly racist to him. Neelix, you're the only member of your species onboard. Stop calling Tuvok by his fucking race, Mr. Talaxian.
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>>44584000
I loved the way kate mulgrew played janeway though.
I never really paid attention to the plot, i just liked the whole atmosphere of the show, and the fact that it was engaging.
The atmosphere in TOS was too over the top. And not only because of kirk. It felt like a play rather than a tv series. VOY was more believable.
TNG mostly did well, but there were some intensely dull moments, and the acting from sir patrick stewart was great, but after a while the way his way of leading combined with the slice of life parts and the general slowness of the show were tiring. Meanwhile i could've listened to kate mulgrew all day and everything happening on voyager seemed interesting.
DS9 was simply jarring in that it was basically either "war war never changes", the opposite of what startrek up to then had been, or a soap opera which i couldn't even bear watching until recently. VOY however was pretty decent if you ignore some episodes (okay a lot.)

In my head i just retconned every episode where janeway was less the strong matronly type and more the batshit crazy "let's rape the prime directive with a barbed dildo and then kill people because muh prime directive" bitch.
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>>44584086
When neelix said it it seemed somehow more formal.
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>>44584162
You're not wrong, but you have to remember that TOS is literally half a century old. The style of fighting they use is literally called "stage fighting", which is one of the reasons it looks like a play. TOS is pretty much the only TV show from the 60's that anyone would still voluntarily watch.

DS9 is a brilliant deconstruction of TNG. It's a spin-off done right, and it does exactly what VOY is afraid to do: Move away from TNG and show the ideals of the Federation in a situation where they are hard to uphold. Illustrated perfectly in an early Worf episode, where he apprehends a smuggler and ruins a sting operation because of it.

VOY is the most recent show of the bunch, and it shows in the sets and effects. It's one of the saving graces of the show, but the writing was baaaaaaad, until they finally picked it up with more Doc and some decent Seven of Nine stuff.

Kate Mulgrew's performance as Janeway wasn't bad, but I dislike the character. She's poorly written, and she's shoved even into plots not related to her at all. Janeway messes with my suspense of disbelief, because it's obvious where the writers said "and this is where Janeway saves the day". In TNG Picard is the Captain, but he doesn't save the ship every single time. Sometimes it's Data, Riker, or even Troi. The same with Sisko. They're functional characters who just happen to be the Captain, but Janeway is written in a way where she's never allowed to fail, and that just makes it more obvious where she would fail, if the writing didn't save her.
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>>44584385
I disagree that she isn't allowed to fail.
A whole season of the MMO can only exists because Janeway and 7/9 both failed their rolls against the Vaadvaur's bluff. Janeway fails lots of times and if she is always at hand to save the day, it's because the entirety of her person is consumed by the one imperative to save her crew. That's pretty much her thing.
While even Picard considered some losses to be acceptable for the greater good.
Which is why the Tuvix episode seemed soo out of character to me.
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Fuck Tuvix.
Bifurcating him back into original constituents was the right thing to do.
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I'm marathoning DS9.

Why is Garak so based?
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>>44584471
Janeway only cares about her crew first and foremost in some episodes. Even in the pilot she cares more about the Prime Directive, and chooses not to use the array to get home. That's one of those times where they want to show her being strong, but in retrospect it's kind of stupid. All they had to do was to make it impossible, and she wouldn't look like such a hypocrite.

But one of the big problems with Voyager was that the writers didn't really talk to each other, so they all ended up writing Janeway in a different way.
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>>44584543
>>But one of the big problems with Voyager was that the writers didn't really talk to each other, so they all ended up writing Janeway in a different way.
This.
So much this.

Also, the pilot episode was pretty clear.
Had she not destroyed the array the borg would literally have invaded the beta/alpha quadrants on the spot. They wouldn't have had a civilization to come home to.
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>>44584534
Because Garak is a charismatic rogue. On top of that, Garak is always one or two steps ahead of others. That's what kept him alive, after all. When Klingons come to beat the shit out of him, he just insults them, because he knows they can't kill him. And one of DS9's best episodes is basically just Garak taking the reigns from Sisko without him even knowing it.

And his borderline gay relationship with Dr. Bashir is great.
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>>44584534
He gets to be witty and irreverent on the occasions when he's involved, in a series where the main characters appear too frequently to always be witty and too sincere in their beliefs to be irreverent. He's an excellent counterpoint to the Federation and Bajoran crew on DS9.

Not that he has a monopoly on wit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqW4GVOZN7Q
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>>44584589
Bro, the Borg aren't written into the show until season 3. She destroyed it because those space savages the Kazon wouldn't get their hands on it. And those guys can't even rub two isolinear circuits together.
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>>44584639
Wait what... Did i remember the pilot episode wrong?
Shit. I suck.
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>>44584676
>>44584589
>>44584543
A couple of big bricks of C4 and some timers.
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>>44574396
>just in case you need someone to fuse to your security chief
Pity that Tuvok was also very poorly utilized in the series because Russ fucking nailed the Vulcan role
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>>44584843
I have to admit I was a little weirded out when I first saw a black Vulcan. But Tim Russ gives one of the best Vulcan performances ever, and it's probably only me being nice when I say that Leonard Nimoy did it better, and only then because he invented half of the Vulcan ideosyncracies Tim Russ portrays so well.

What Tim Russ does well is let the "human" side shine through. Vulcans aren't without emotion, they suppress it. Tuvok isn't alien to the emotional interplay nearly every other species has, and he lets that show with subtle hints.
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>>44581976
>I always liked the story about how Chekotay's actor kept trying to get himself written out of the show by asking for larger and larger raises each season, and Paramount just kept agreeing to them.

Did that seriously happen? That would be hilarious if it was true. It's Office Space: Star Trek Edition.

"I tried to get them to fire me. Instead, they kept giving me raises!"
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>>44584589
>Also, the pilot episode was pretty clear.
>Had she not destroyed the array the borg would literally have invaded the beta/alpha quadrants on the spot. They wouldn't have had a civilization to come home t

I think you have the pilot episode and the series finale confused.
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>>44573418
Wait, how old did you say his girlfriend was? Two years old? That's perfect. Our malfunctioning holographic doctor won't perform his functions until we supply him with a toy. Probably a bug in the code.

I guess we'll take the space pedo along. Every ship needs a mascot, and Toby the Targ died when he gnawed through a plasma conduit.
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>>44581629
Screwy thing is, Janeway liked them both for different reasons. And yet, she was the one who split them.

I mean shit, Tuvok's offscreen mental breakdown and the resulting image of him scribbling on the floor was basically the impetus for future Janeway to travel back in time and get the Voyager home sooner.
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>>44586101
Voyager would have been home a lot sooner if she had used the Caretakers device.
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>>44586411
That's the irony of Janeway. She blows up the Caretaker's Array to protect the Prime Directive, and then breaks the Temporal Prime Directive ten times over in order to get her people home. A little sooner.

It'd be pretty neat how integrity in one instance leads to a much greater transgression later, if they'd done it on purpose.
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>>44586588
And with a couple of timed explosives no transgressions would have taken place.
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Why is there no love for the best captain in this thread?
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>>44586654
>Space Adventures!
>Ferrying diplomats and exploring concepts
>Building and soldiering
>Scientist with serious mary-sue tendencies
>Super under-qualified for the job
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>>44583485
>And if anything is capable of begging for its own life while also showing all signs of sentience, then yes that something should not be just disassembled.
Are you a vegetarian?
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>>44587681
i'm on the border.
i like meat too much and having a balanced diet that doesn't taste like shit being a vegetarian is really difficult, but if i actually see that what i'm eating is part of something that once had complex feelings, then i am physically unable to eat it.
Also cows aren't really able to communicate their needs.

>captcha: select all the steaks
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>>44587570
>Super under-qualified for the job
Shut your mouth green-blood, they only had the one Warp 5 ship and only 3 people who were remotely qualified, as far as first contacts go he was damn successful for the most part.
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>>44580700
>cryostasis
Is there a reason they didn't do that? They've got an immortal AI and a really long-lived Vulcan who can keep the ship running. I guess they have family they want to see before they die? I know Commander Chipotle has his dumb family.
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>>44574553
I think that he is supposed to.
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>>44574616
Most of the crew is male. I think the girl would be better for amusement.
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>>44584534
Garak is the best damn character in DS9 and is probably one of the best characters in the series overall.

In every episode that Garak is used in he's the exact same character: a charismatic, witty dickbag with a complicated past. This is actually fairly unique among Star Trek characters due to how episodes were written. Most people seem to agree that TNG was the best series, but think about Picard. There were just as many episodes where Picard was willing to bend the prime directive as there were episodes where he insisted it be uncompromisingly upheld. That's poor characterization and it doesn't happen with Garak. And because Garak is always lying about everything the audience never knows which reveals are true, or which pieces of the story explain certain parts of his character. The audience is left guessing and the mystery entices us to learn more about Garak.

On top of all this Garak works excellently with the other characters. He's witty and irreverent and his cutting remarks are more often than not funny while implying Garak knows more than he should. And even though Garak directly or indirectly puts down basically every other character in the show, he never takes things too far. Nobody every comes to hate Garak because of something he's said, and fans never get upset because Garak was harsh with their favorite character. This and the above help to ensure that Garak is everyone's second favorite character - unless he's their favorite.

Finally, Garak isn't infallible. Sure he's shown as be the most or more capable person more often than not in any situation involving information gathering, assassination, plotting, and tailoring, but he's often the victim of his own overconfidence, making him believable.

Oh and one more thing. He's a spy and assassin with a cover story that isn't obviously fake. Why did it take people 80 years to do this in TV/Film?
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>>44574553
>Man that guy creeps me out.

Watch the film "Kinky Boots" with Chiwetel Ejiofor as the cabaret singing drag queen "Lola", and I promise you, you'll never be able to be creeped out by him or take Serenity seriously again.
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>>44589480
Plenty of experienced commanders of Warp 4 - 4.9 ships around that could have done the job and done it better.
That idiot was only put in charge because of nepotism, not because he was any good. And if you count damn successful as repeatedly nearly causing wars, fucking over a trusted ally, letting confirmed pirates go with just a warning... yeah, sure. The only reason he wasn't recalled and court-martialed within his first year is because writer's fiat.
>>
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>>44590298
I was going to point out how DS9 devoted an entire episode to James Bond tropes with a screencap of Garak looking slick in his tuxedo. But then I discovered that some sick person invented some (literally) gay Quark/Garak fusion.
>>
>>44591121
that is nothing.
>>
>>44591401
>>
>>44573418
Kill him.
Kill him with fire before he opens his mouth.
If he somehow survives, hide the replicator and warp back to Starfleet.
>>
>>44573418

He must poop a substance analogous to Coffee. It's the only thing that makes sense.
>>
>>44591860
OH MY GOD
IT ALL FALLS INTO PLACE NOW!
>>
>>44591860
It's probably from his hair.

Like the rest of the 'food'.
>>
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>>44573418
Prepare a tear-harness... for the female.
>>
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>>44590208

Causes discipline problems.
Nobody is going to fight over a hideous alien amputee. They'll do their business where and when necessary and then get back to fucking work.
>>
>>44591860
>>44592065
>>44594267

"I'm not gay but coffee is coffee"
>>
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>>44584613
>borderline gay
>borderline

He was absolutely gay for Bashir without making it a very special episode. Garak fucking rocks.

When asked if what he thought about people suggesting Garak was gay for Bashir, Andrew Robinson said "Well I certainly played him that way."
>>
>>44595092
there's coffee in that nebula

>>44595114
Who wasn't gay for bashir.
He was engineered to be perfect.
>>
>>44595114

You don't get it.
Every word that Garak ever speaks is a lie.
He's playing an elaborate game with Bashir, along with everyone else.
>>
>>44595114
>"I certainly played him that way."

Double entendre.

Could mean that he played the character Garak that way, or that the character Garak played Bashir that way. Or both. Or whatever.
>>
>>44574488

>"We must know when to be strong, and when to show compassion. … As a matter of compassion, we must sometimes be willing to give of ourselves."

Scorpy would come up with an angle.
>>
>>44595133
>He was engineered to be perfect.

He's a perfect horny teenager.
Can't blame Garak for identifying and exploiting that weakness.
>>
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>>44595133
>Who wasn't gay for bashir.
>He was engineered to be perfect.

Mah Nigga

>>44595137
Oh, you poor man.
>>
>>44595219
>He's a perfect horny teenager.
Well that explains why i liked him and identified with him so much.
>>
>>44584534
>>44584613

Read this after watching 'in the pale moonlight' if you haven't already

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/matthew.adams1/personal/tailor.htm
>>
>>44584953

Tuvok is also a tad older than other notable Vulcan crewmen. This makes him far more grounded and imperturbable in the face of a gaggle of flighty, emotional Humans.

Tim Russ REALLY killed it. His VA post-Voyager has been fucking brilliant, even when surrounded by tripe. He gets the character, on a level beyond the average for the post-TOS casts.
>>
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>>44573418

I have a crew of myself and I can cross the entire length of the galaxy in a month. I'm profoundly not in need of local help, as I can fuel scoop every main sequence star and so long as I have reactor mass, I have indefinite life support. My biggest worry is running out of ammo for my class 4 plasma accelerator.
>>
>>44590167
>Comander Chipotle
I'm dying right now...
>>
>>44590167
The Doctor doesn't know a damn thing about long-term functioning at all at the beginning of the series, let alone things that aren't specifically medical crises.

And Tuvok can't run a whole ship by himself.
>>
>>44601012
So the crew can leapfrog through time. Only those that need to be awake are awake

>>44595133
>there's coffee in that nebula

That's when the mutiny should have been planned.
>>
>>44582266
Brad Dourif was the fucking voice of Chucky, it's criminal that they killed him off rather then setting him up as a recurring character, like a Garak equivalent
>>
>>44597826
>I can fuel scoop every main sequence star
Your fuel is running low, the last scoopable star is some light year behind you, you could go back, and start searching for adequate stars, but you notice, that this segment of the galaxy is filled mostly with brown dwarfs. Maybe the local, with a knowlage of star systems would be a good idea.
>>
>>44573418
to the airlock with him.
>>
The Battlestar Galactica reboot was what Star Trek: Voyager could have been.
>>
>>44584625
it's stuff like this that makes me think DS9 is the best Trek series. You can argue Picard vs. Kirk all you want, but excluding captains DS9 has the best characters, no contest.
>>
>>44602738
Suder was a compelling character, and he would have worked as a permanent addition to the crew. I think the same about Seska, though. It seems a real waste that they turned her into a middling villain, even though it was interesting to see her deal with the misogynsitic Kazon. When they discover she's Cardassian and ask if she's been dealing with the Kazon, it should have been "No, I'm not stupid. I don't agree with Janeway's choice. Half the crew doesn't. But now Voyager is my only way to get home. I'm a member of the Obsidian order, and if I'd suspect anyone, it would be the alien scrap merchant you have employed. He is familiar with the Kazon and their ways, and he's the only person onboard with a motive. The rest of us just wants to get home".

And then they space Neelix.

>>44603394
Fun fact: The BSG reboot was started by Ronald D. Moore, after he left the Voyager writing staff in anger. That's why the BSG series Bible is very overt about doing away with typical Star Trek staples like energy weapons and technobabble. BSG is literally the anti-Star Trek.

That said, I still enjoy Voyager more than BSG. I loved BSG when it was on air, because it's very exciting. But years later, I don't really care all that much any more. If someone started streaming BSG, I'd shrug and reason I've already seen it. Its characters were kind of boring, its plot was simple and convoluted at the same time, and it has VERY few good stand-alone episodes. But more to the point, it only barely engages in proper philosophical science fiction. And with all the crap Voyager did, it did try to be Star Trek, and that made it have good episodes, good characters, and good ideas. And Voyager making a point in one episode about religion is still more powerful than BSG flubbing its ending with a similar, albeit vague, point.
>>
>>44603596

Eh, BSG had a few a'right ones. I actually really liked Scar, despite lots of people deriding it as the ultimate filler episode. The idea of death as a learning exercise was really interesting to me. The idea of a people who could come back to life, far away and in a safe spot, when killed made for some subtle commentary in the way they acted. Someone got wounded? Just shoot them in the head, so they download. Need a quick way to get home? Death is your Greyhound bus.

There's some good stuff there, although I totally concede they fucked the ending bad. Lesson to any upcoming writers; if your show runs on a mystery, make sure you know what the fucking mystery is before starting.
>>
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>>44603770
but the "pull shit out your ass without thinking more than one step ahead" attitude towards writing worked so well for Lost
>>
>>44603770
Scar is one of my favorites. It's the one I used to try and convince a friend to watch the show. Don't get me wrong, I was very much into BSG and I still consider it one of the better science fiction shows.

But it wasn't Star Trek. Ron D. Moore threw out the baby with the bathwater, and as a result it wasn't as good as it could have been. The point about death you make was handled far better in Tom Cruise's Edge of Tomorrow, to the point where his partner cruelly executes him after he breaks his leg during a practice session. Part of me always wondered if HER reality continues to exist, and she's left standing there, wondering why time hasn't reset, with the corpse of an AWOL soldier she just killed.

>>44603829
Man, Lost. I watched the first season, and was less than thrilled when the second season started. There will be no answers, I said. They never gave any last season. So halfway through my sister says there WILL be answers, and they have given them. And the first episode of season two I watch is the one with the redshirt. A survivor we haven't seen before, among a cast of named characters, who has to carry unstable dynamite.

Lost is the show I'm the most glad I stopped watching. Several more seasons of that bullshit would have been so hard to take.
>>
>>44584385
> TV show from the 60's that anyone would still voluntarily watch.

Twilight zone.
>>
>>44584385
>TOS is pretty much the only TV show from the 60's that anyone would still voluntarily watch.

Dr Who.
>>
>>44583251
>Threshold anyone?

The episode creationists look at and say 'you're just straw-manning real science to make it look bad.'
>>
>>44604228
Look, if we start counting what people with brain damage would watch, we can keep going forever.
>>
>>44604609
The Prisoner.
>>
>>44573418
>unsanctioned rogue trader
>putting a glorious icon of the Mechanicus in unnecessary peril

Two new additions to the servitor crew
>>
>>44604664
The Avengers
>>
>>44604127
ain't that the 50's
>>
>>44604902
I thinh the film with Sean Connery and Umah Therma was better than the series

Fooken fite me ya fagut
>>
>>44573418
If you could do it over, the entire thing. How would you write it?

And I don't mean what changes would you make, I mean, all that has to stay the same is that an Intrepid Class Starship is flung into the unknown reaches of Space and try to find their way back.
>>
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>>44605540
I wouldn't have used the Marquis. And the captain wouldn't have been human. They'd have been Trill or Catian or Andoran ect. They'd have an alien but ultimately Federation viewpoint. I'd also have a Vulcan, but they wouldn't be captain, or the Science Officer. Really Tuvok would have been as good a fit as anyone. Everyone else would be human, bar a token third or even fourth alien recurring character. But ultimately they'd be more human than alien main cast.

Once they got to the Delta quadrant things would they'd be thrown a fair deal of choices where keeping to the Ideals of the Federation get challenged but are upheld for better or for worse. The alien captain would be as human as can be, they've served the Federation a long time and they believe in it. From the audience's point of view all of the captain's decisions are going to be logical. It's only when things get out of hand that the captain will become somewhat unpredictable. They still have their own culture, but are first and foremost a captain of the Federation in charge of 160 lives. Alien quirks can come more from their crew members.

Voyager would be a superior ship to the vast majority it'd come across, but it wouldn't come across any specifically designed for battle of equal or greater class. They'd be out there, but they'd be in the hands of civilizations that Voyager doesn't want to risk pissing off or are actively fleeing from. Their everyday threat can't just shoot Voyager down with any ease and the threats that can aren't ones Voyager will be throwing itself up against with any choice.

Also no Kazon beyond one or two episodes. While multi-system spanning civilizations will exist in the Delta quadrant, they're not going to be the Kazon. Things like First Contact aren't going to be done easily either, it's going to be hard decision on whether they even should.

Oh and when they get back, they're on the Cardassian side of the Alpha quadrant, during the Dominion war.
>>
>>44605540
I think you would just have to write it in a more modern way. Voyager suffers greatly from it's episode of the week format. None of it feels interconnected, and you could probably slap a season 4 episode into season 1, and people wouldn't really notice. And that's a problem because Voyager's very premise itself lends it towards more modern TV shows, in which things change regularly, in order to keep views interested and watching the next week.

That sort of writing works especially well with a small group of isolated people, which is what the premise of Voyager is. This means that tensions between crew-mates can linger, setting events are maintained (Oh a shuttle crashed, now we have to rely on the teleporters alone for a few weeks), etc.
>>
>>44604930


It's original run was 1959-64.
>>
>>44604609
Black and white Doctor Who isn't for everybody. It's a bit of a niche thing, but some of the episodes are pretty good. You do get a bit of that "televised play" feeling at times. Of course, chances are your experience with Doctor Who is almost entirely from the new show (which is very different) with maybe a smattering of classic episodes, most or all of which were from the point where the show's quality had precipitously declined (most everything after Tom Baker is, at best, a huge step down, and most everything after Peter Davison is just plain awful). Chances are that you've never even seen any Doctor Who from the 60s and don't have a frame of reference. Or maybe you have, and we just disagree. That's possible too.
>>
>>44583485
>duplicate via second transporter accident

What if nobody in Star Trek is their original selves any more? Just the latest in a long line of duplicates controlled by the top minds of the Federation while everyone is actually stored in cyberspace?
>>
>>44606249
I can see what you mean. Off the top of my head I was focusing more on the crew dynamic than actual writing. I'd put the most barebones thought into and just mentioned a couple things that I'd have done differently from Voyager itself.

Honestly though, I'd kill for more aliens in the Federation crews. A Trill, a Klingon and a Changeling with a recurring Ferengi & Cardassian were the most diverse we've had and I think that worked well. I'd like to see it done again with other races. The captain wouldn't have to be alien, I just figured that'd be as interesting a place as any to start
>>
Where is the guy who loves to run into threads about stuff like fat neckbeard autists during tabletops to scream about how it's unrelated to the board with his charts and graphs? Isn't shit like this HIS Prime Directive?
>>
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>>44606897
Ie disagreae witht hwat yoo aare sayenng and demand that yoo changae subject to somethenng that is sufficiently dumbead down to my leval. My autismal littlele mind can't handlele handlele that e subject coold havae sidae subjects that enrich teh original subject witht context and alternata content and if it doesn't obey teh ruleis to teh lettar ie juest can't coap.

Charts!

I think that theare is only onae pussiblele way to havae fun and that is my way and havae becomeam so narrow mindead that ie can naoh longar comprehend teh pussibility of anothar puint of viaw and will go on long windead rants to express such. Also ie am teh only clevar pwerson huer everyonae elsae is stupid for gettenng e basic concept that ie can't understand.
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>>44574553
Dat's raycisst
>>
>>44587570
I want to play the circumstances of Voyager but with the spirit of Red Dwarf
>>
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>>44607774
Instead of holodeck characters/programs going wrong its the vending machines. The gain true AI. They don't go skynet. They just want to serve refreshing beverages.

The ships computer starts to break down. As they can't replicate the correct spare parts they have to use simpler systems they can maintain easily. Computer gets a bit not clever. Less cleverer. More not smart.

The super officious captain and majority like minded federation command staff keep trying to catch those wretched maquis at their games. Shenanigans ensue.
>>
>>44605540
For starters, I'd so away with Janeway. For me, she's the biggest stumbling block on Voyager. I'm not a big fan of the Maquis, either, so the first order of business is Captain Tuvok. Yes, the Vulcan is the Captain. The other character I'd definitely keep is the Doctor, though I'd have them slowly upgrade to a mobile emitter, rather than stealing one from the future from the past. For the rest of the cast I'd want at least one character from Europe, and one from the non-Western world. None of that "bones of my people" stuff, though. I'd also bring in Jeri Ryan right away, but not as a Borg. Maybe as a Vulcan, or maybe as a Caitian. I'd want at least one significantly alien alien on the crew.

In the canon a Cardassian vessel was kidnapped, too. Instead of the Maquis, the crew would run into these guys. Both low on crew, and both wanting to go back home, they work together. The Caretaker's Array is in an ass-backwards part of the Delta Quadrant, and the Kazon are much more spread out, together with a bunch of low-tech civilisations. Voyager and the Cardassian ship (let's call it the Vrask) try to fix the array (the most logical course of action), and for this they need to explore the sector. Both parties distrust one another, but Voyager has the advantage of power. Finding what they need, both for the array as for their ships, is hard, though the Cardassians fare better at this because of their robust technology. They do hire a Neelix analogue to show them around, though this one doesn't try to be funny. He's just a low-rent Han Solo who's lucky enough to have inside knowledge about the sector, and to be the first person Voyager runs across. Like Neelix he is amazed at their technology. He might also be a good cook, but he won't force you to eat hair. He also doesn't bring his 2 year old girlfriend.
>>
>>44607888
Figures it's Cat who still looks exactly the same.
>>
>>44605540
There's an idea that I think would be interesting that they off-handedly mention in a Voyager episode. Chakotay asks Janeway if she would have been happy serving as his first officer, if Voyager had been destroyed and his ship had survived.
Voyager is the Maquis ship in this situation, and Janeway is captain of a science vessel (befitting her background) that is surveying the badlands in the hopes of counteracting its effects. She destroys her ship in order to destroy the caretaker array, which the Federation crew grudgingly acceptof and the Maquis despise. And you go from there, with Chakotay (or a better character, never liked him) as captain and her as first officer. Cue tension and moral dilemmas, preferably with scarce resources instead of INFINITE TORPEDOES.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k

Really, anything that focuses on the price and burden of principles would be good. My favourite Voyager episode deals with that, as well as the advantage of being the good guys.

http://putlocker.is/watch-star-trek-voyager-tvshow-season-7-episode-15-online-free-putlocker.html
>>
>>44607939
Perfection doesn't age. It just matures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klzhYae1bFw
>>
>>44607774
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhdnPt1Ln4U
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