Scientology got me thinking. Tolkien and Robert were way better writers than Elron Hubbard, why does HE get a cult, but no sick Cohan/Silmarilion religion.
Those honestly sound way more fun
Can I be an elf for reals?
Cuz I'd sign up so fast
>Implying Morgoth isn't real
>implying my silmarills just walked out of my house
Is there surgey to make me a beautiful, well dressed, tall, thin, agile, immortal yet dying all while being hillariously rich? Are the sweet hats included?
Hubbard isn't a master but fuck. Putting endless descriptions autistic language creation and anti social teenage boy wank power fantasy on a pedestals is just hilarious.
Xenu would fuck Morgoth up. Jet fuel can melt giant spiders. Check it.
Malekith from whfb could totally fuck up Xenu if he threatened his dear
Nigga Malekith styles on Xenu and unlike your science fiction, he's real
>Malekith is real
>Malekith can beat Lord Xenu
Nigger managed to conquer the galaxy and create melancholy without any help from his mom. Scientologists go back to your volcanoes, you got no game.
I posted a real picture of Malekith
Where is your image of Xenu
Matt Ward: 1
I wish it wasn't such a badly-written scam cosmology. With some touch-up, I'd almost want to play a Scientology campaign. Fly your own Space DC-8 and fight Xenu. I don't know, I'd find a way to make it work.
Nah, it's just more shit from wightpower. He draws Star Wars porn.
You posted a dwarf, and brought great shame upon Matt Ward's legacy. Xenu lives!
I can do this all night. Thats clearly an alien mask
Next you'll say Santa isn't real
can'tdo this all day as well because xenu cosplayers get sued or assassinated, it seems.
I would put it past Scientologists, but there's just not much cosplaying of the guy.
I wish. I really like that badass alien conqueror look for him, instead of just being a gray. I have no idea what Xenu is supposed to look like.
Wouldn't be surprised if it is. Scientology exists for two reasons: take money from its members to enrich its leaders and harass people into oblivion for the slightest bit of criticism.
Just jumped into this thread, does this mean Morathai is real too
Isn't someone basically practicing Howardism every time they go full murdohobo in their game?
I was actually talking about starting a religion of from worship and worship would be done through prayers said to crom then lifting weights or getting in fights and ending in eating and drinking, I was talking to a friend about offering it as a religious service for recruits on parris island, the lure of free food would be enough.
>I was actually talking about starting a religion of from worship and worship would be done through prayers said to crom then lifting weights or getting in fights and ending in eating and drinking, I was talking to a friend about offering it as a religious service for recruits on parris island, the lure of free food would be enough.
this exists its called Asatru praise Thor
You know how otherkin think they're really wolves or dragons trapped in human bodies or some shit?
Fictionkin are like that, but they think they're actual characters from stories.
Odd. Do they think they're their own OCs? I know furries do a lot of that. Maybe there's overlap.
Or do they actually fucking think they're Draco Malfoy or something?
They go for canon characters, yes. OCs would just make them a run of the mill furfag or whatever, and that'd make them less unique.
Remember, these things aren't about liberating your soul or spiritual harmony or whatever shit they preach to justify their mental deficiency. It's about garnering attention, plain and simple.
On this subject of insanity and attention
are Tulpas and headmates real insanity or just attention
Somehow I don't see it as too farfetched for ponie fags to be legit insane with beta
It's quite possible for things like that to be legitimate mental issues. Unfortunately it's incredibly difficult to tell where the insanity stops and the bullshit begins, because furfags/otherkin/whoeverthefuck are incredibly prone to lying through their teeth to get what they want.
Not completely on topic but wasn't Howard a paranoid schizophrenic? Didn't he actually believe that Conan sat behind him and told him stories to write down as they occurred to him? I remember him allegedly stating that when asked why the Conan stories weren't in any sort of chronological order. Also that he was terrified the whole time because Conan threatened to kill him if he got anything wrong.
>you will never be Morathi's adored pleasure slave
>you will never worship her entire body from head to toe
>she will never reward you with cuddle time, your head resting on her milfie titties
You're thinking of Phillip K. Dick.
Strangely, Phillip K. Dick's main focus was on the idea that the US Government was spying on him, which pretty much everyone dismissed as ridiculous, but it turns out he had been tagged as a potential security risk of some sort and was under observation.
Scientology started as a bet between Hubbard and Heinlein as to who could start the more successful religion.
Tolkien wrote LotR because he wanted to justify his fake language.
Tolkien was a Catholic and was pure of heart.
Hubbard's heart was corrupted by the whisperings of Melkor, and such.
Yeah, it's called being of Germanic heritage.
If you ain't, I got bad news for you bruh. You just a broke-ass easterling.
>Despite his handicap of being English
England was God's country pre-60s, you know. Don't talk shit unless it's about neo-England.
Henry was a bit of a wacky cunt.
He said that as an explanation for the out of order nature of his stories. Since he just came up with them with no real attention to chronology, he compared it to being told stories by Conan over an evening.
yeah uh high priestess of slaanesh does not do cuddles
the malus darkblade series features a relatively minor slaaneshi cult throwing a party, and it is only thanks to Our Hero having a Literal Goddamn Daemon Of Slaanesh riding shotgun inside his head that he makes it through being the guest of honor alive.
Morathi is as far beyond dickings as you are beyond the touch of a woman
Tulpas are real and they're basically just self-induced bugfuck crazy.
No. Dissosociative identity disorder manifests as, essentially, different people sharing the same body who sometimes trade places involuntarily. It's negative fun because you black in and out and either have no recollection of anything that happened whatsoever and have to deal with the consequences, or you black out and then later start having random bits of contextless memories, or just having that weird daydreaming feeling where you're not in control of yourself. It's frankly, a complicated mess.
Headmates are just creations of people who desperately want to be special pretending to have things in their head. Or schizophrenia. Or people pretending to have schizophrenia to have a hat to make themselves "different."
You could maybe make Howard's philosophy into a religion, considering that
Tolkien didn't really have enough of a unique take on things to make his own religion. His beliefs were pretty typical of a Catholic: sex is scary, power corrupts, and yet an omnipotent being can somehow be trusted completely.
Just out of curiousity - where do you see Tolkien's Catholocism making him prudish? I get that completely and utterly demonizing the sexuality of a species whose closest relative is the fucking Bonobo is one of the Church's biggest mistakes, but it doesn't seem like one that affected Tolkien or his work much. It'd be interesting to see if it had, and how.
The omnipotent being doesn't actually do shit, he was just a good father that encouraged his children to follow their dreams. All the gods were losing their shit because the dwarves didn't fit into daddys song. Then daddy came around and said, "Its ok son, you followed your dreams. Just keep them off to the side for the second edition so we can work a better introduction for them."
Illu is best papa
> typical of a Catholic: sex is scary
>I get that completely and utterly demonizing the sexuality of a species whose closest relative is the fucking Bonobo is one of the Church's biggest mistake
This meme needs to die.
Just because Aragorn had better things to do than to fuck his elven waifu doesn't mean Tolkien hated sex.
Also power corrupts isn't a catholic belief. It'd be pretty hilarious and hypocritical if it was. And the benevolent omnipotent beings are specifically not using their omnipotence because they know what tends to happen if they do.
Papistfag here. We don't *hate* sex, we just believe overindulgence in vices distract you from doing good deeds, which are at least on paper a pretty big deal for us cause that's how you get to chill in heaven
This, to be quite desu, senpai.
Tolkien's world-building hobby was intended to recreate the Greek and Scandinavian myths he loved so much in a form compatible with his Catholicism.
Because a religion deals specifically in easy to follow answers to questions that would otherwise be incredibly difficult to explain as anything other than life shitting on you.
Hubbard peddled easy answers. Established a very black and white sort of morality and made the enemies unquestionably evil for the sake of evil. Idiots who need to be told right from wrong LOVE knowing exactly what the enemy is.
Howard/Tolkien always made their characters walk the grey area between good and evil. They knew that sometimes life takes a shit on you for no other reason than life sucks.
Also Hubbard has the advantage of being a generally shitty person and was inclined to use cult like brainwashing techniques to convince individuals of his status as a prophet.
Howard and Tolkien never desired to fuck with people's brains for their own personal gain. In fact they were both generally stand up guys by most accounts.
Closest relative is the chimpanzee. Bonobos are popular in intro anthropology lectures because they're thrilling and transgressive and illuminating politically. Desmond Morris's gorillas hold about as much water, which is to say some but not nearly so much as the fanboys claim.
Catholic (and Orthodox) doctrine on sex stems from the prevalence of slaves among early Christians. They suffered horrible levels of institutional sexual abuse, and church doctrine was a reaction against it.
Well, Tolkein was a devout Catholic, for one. LRH was actively trying to make a cult/religion. Tolkein would have been horrified if his fans started a religion based on his fiction.
He's right though. It's not so much that "Melkor did nothing wrong". He made his choice and stuck with it. That said, in my opinion, it is certainly arguable that the Valar's (the stewards of Arda who were supposed to look out for this kind of thing) lack of action against him after invading Valinor with Ungoliant and stealing the Silmarils, was not in the best interest of anything or anyone. "Hey, that prisoner who destroyed half the world while we were trying to build it went and smashed up our house and stole the shiniest shinies to ever shiny. Should we do anything? Yeah, let's sit here with our thumbs up our arses because!"
Again, this is ignoring the will of Eru, in setting.
And for an example of life taking a shit on you for absolutely no reason, look no further than Túrin Turmabar.
Because L Ron Huckster was a dribbling cunt, whereas Tolkein and Howard were bros. Even Lovecraft was endearing, despite being an autist, like that one fat neckbeard who rambles and rules lawyers, but is still your homeboy who always shows up on time, brings snacks, and has all the coolest plastic men and oldschool books.
>Tolkien wrote LotR because he wanted to justify his fake language.
Come, now. While it's true that this is one of his passions that came through in the writing, he clearly had a hard-on for mythology and moralistic fables as well. And Hobbits are his love letter to the virtues of simple country living.
Sex is irrelevant in LotR, not scary. It goes ostensibly unmentioned, because it's not important to the story he wanted to tell. I'd agree with you if sex was given any negative connotation, but in reality it's wholly neutral.
>From my point of view, the Valar are evil.
Both Bilbo and Frodo were apparently completely asexual and aromantic, remaining single for life despite the fact that they're kind of important hobbit nobility (Fun fact - the only Baggins who makes it all the way through the books is a woman, and thus House Baggins goes completely extinct right afterward.) And when he does write about romance, he seems to be sorely mistaken about how it works. He even claims that his own relationship with his wife was of the fairy-tale love-at-first-sight variety, which makes you seriously worry that Mrs. Tolkien got stuck in a situation where she couldn't say no to an insane person.
Because as we all know, Tolkien was a very economical writer who never included superfluous details. He knew exactly when a story should start and stop, neither beginning too early nor ending too late. He also definitely did not churn out volumes of pointless supplemental material.
I'm with Toynbee on this.
>There was a time when the Hobbit fantasies of Professor Tolkien were being taken very seriously indeed by a great many distinguished literary figures. Mr. Auden is even reported to have claimed that these books were as good as War and Peace; Edwin Muir and many others were almost equally enthusiastic. I had a sense that one side or the other must be mad, for it seemed to me that these books were dull, ill-written, whimsical and childish. And for me this had a reassuring outcome, for most of his more ardent supporters were soon beginning to sell out their shares in Professor Tolkien, and today those books have passed into a merciful oblivion.
Howard never really worried too much about who's good and who's evil. He did have some off notions about civilization and barbarism. I get the feeling that he kind of hated himself for having a job that could only exist because of modern infrastructure and literacy rates, and that he wanted to be some kind of rugged individualist frontiersman picking fights for no good reason.
Tolkien had a similar kind of hypocrisy. He was a a professor, someone whose job is to work at a center of civilization and teach some of the least simple subjects ever devised, and yet he preaches the virtues of being an ignorant country bumpkin as though he had any idea what that meant.
I've had to deal with real ignorant country bumpkins, the kind of people Tolkien and Howard admired from afar. I can aver that they were completely full of shit.
By all appearances, and there are many, Edith and JRR really did have a fairytale romance. It was filled with disapproving guardians, transcending religious barriers, lazy afternoons at tea shops when they should have been doing other stuff and being separated by a war (the big One).
Don't be jaded, they *were* Beren and Luthien.
>He even claims that his own relationship with his wife was of the fairy-tale love-at-first-sight variety, which makes you seriously worry that Mrs. Tolkien got stuck in a situation where she couldn't say no to an insane person.
>I've never read a damned thing about their relationship and am completely unaware that Edith dancing for him while out walking one day was the inspiration for Lúthien
>the kind of people Tolkien and Howard admired from afar.
Except that Tolkien was commanding these aforementioned country bumpkins during the Great War and couldn't help but come to admire them for their tenacity despite the lot they'd been handed.
The science is still being debated. Bonobos are a kind of chimpanzee. The genetic difference between them and the common chimpanzee is very slight. Both are close to humans genetically.
So bonobos are very close to other chimps, and all chimps are very close to human. Which is closer is still not clear. The chimps differ behaviorally from one another enough that it's foolish to try to directly apply insights specific to one species to human behavior.
Fun fact: you clearly don't know a damned thing about Edith Tolkien.
Also, at the time, the asexual bachelor lifestyle was a common one among upper-class English men. The single, wealthy, solitary intellectual would have been a very familiar trope among Tolkien's early readers.
>He even claims that his own relationship with his wife was of the fairy-tale love-at-first-sight variety, which makes you seriously worry that Mrs. Tolkien got stuck in a situation where she couldn't say no to an insane person.
Man you are utterly unaware of what the world is like outside of your cynical little bubble, aren't you?
>He knew exactly when a story should start and stop
He was a goddamn master of knowing when a story should start and stop, and show me anywhere in LotR with superfluous detail. Jules Verne one could argue adds superfluous detail, which would still be wrong, of course. Melville, now we're getting into superfluous detail territory. Tolkien? Not at all. He wrote about places when they were relevant, in ways that set the stage for the plot.
>He was a goddamn master of knowing when a story should start and stop, and show me anywhere in LotR with superfluous detail.
I love Tolkien but are you serious? Sauron--the main villain, the center of the entire plot, the goddamn title character--gets destroyed like halfway through Return of the King. The rest of that book is just explaining how Aragorn takes over as King, followed by a long, unnecessary chapter about Frodo and Friends taking back a Shire that was invaded in their absence.
Fellowship of the Ring includes two chapters where Frodo and Friends fart around in the woods, meet God, and get kidnapped by skeletons; none of which has any bearing on anything that happens in the story except a minor Chekov's Gun that doesn't come into play until RotK.
The books are fascinating and endearing, but they were not written by someone interested in economical storytelling.
Lovecraft, despite being best bros with Howard, was still a complete and utter racist. Although he eventually cooled down a bit (marrying a Jewish woman despite his antisemitism) he still hated black people for his entire life. Search "lovecraft nigger" and you'll get what I mean.
>the returning heroes realize the home they've longed for has changed, just as they've changed due to being away
Get the fuck outta here.
>clear up the greatest evil present in the world
>tons of plot threads left unresolved
>lol let's just end the story instead
>Fellowship of the Ring includes two chapters where Frodo and Friends fart around in the woods, meet God, and get kidnapped by skeletons; none of which has any bearing on anything that happens in the story except a minor Chekov's Gun that doesn't come into play until RotK.
Nigger what the flying fuck are you talking about? Bombadil wasn't God, the Tomb Wraiths wasn't some fucking simplistic "kidnapped by skeletons" scenario from some dungeon crawling shit like D&D. It was their first close encounter with a dangerous outside world, with evil of the same kind as what they're fighting, as well as the first time they're aided by hidden forces of good, not to mention it's the first instance of Frodo showing his strength of spirit. It's the first time they can't simply run away. It showed just how close danger was to the Shire despite their lack of knowledge of it, and thus their ignorance of the world they were in. And as you say, the swords. What, you liked what they did in the movie? "Have some sweet swords, go ahead, take them, I can pull more out of my ass if I need to".
I love how one anon described it in a Tolkien thread, a good while ago. Something to the effect of "This blade is enchanted with the magic of 'I really, really hate the Witch-King, and hope he dies'".
You know who else didn't know a thing about Edith Tolkien. Good old J.R.R., when they first met. It is impossible to know a stranger well enough to actually love them romantically. He's really lucky that she was cool with it, because if she wasn't, things would have gotten ugly really fast.
The Scouring of the Shire always struck me as kind of creepily kitschy, maybe even to the point of having a political agenda. It's hard to read Gandalf telling the hobbits that it's all up to them to drive the evil foreigners out of the Shire and think it's not actually Tolkien telling the reader that it's high time to clean up England and start rounding up all the immigrants and other undesirables.
Tolkien's ideas of "cleaning up" England were more literal than that. He was something of a tree hugger and greatly disliked mechanization and industrialism, so I always imagined the Scouring of the Shire represented his innate desire to return his country to a more rural state.
I don't think Tolkien really hated foreigners, or anyone other than Nazis for that matter. Despite what millenial facebook scholars might try to tell you, he wasn't racist. At the worst he was a little Eurocentric, which is to be expected from a conservative Englishman living in the early 20th century.
But as some people here have pointed out, Lovecraft by contrast actually was extremely racist, even for his time. Your average New Englander just wanted nonwhites to stay out of their woods; they didn't write treatises on the evolutionary roles of niggers.
no. According to Descartes, we can trust a god because:
and 4) Unlimited "goodness" ?
Also, he says that gods can't into physical forms except avatars but that's another thing
To me it seems more like showing the evils of industrialism and urbanization creeping into an hitherto untouched society, showing what they were fighting for and against the whole time at a level that is easier to relate to, as a complement to the extremes that had been shown throughout most of the story, not to mention that the hobbits themselves had changed a lot in a way which hadn't been shown adequately due to, again, how much more in those directions other important people they surrounded themselves with were. Plus Saruman had to go somewhere (or somehow), you can't just leave a thread of that magnitude hanging.
"Oh yeah, I know all about country folk. I sent a bunch of them to die this one time."
That explains it, then. He didn't see them at home being cunts. He saw them in an extremely controlled environment where you're not really allowed to act authentically.
Industrialism and urbanization are necessary to keep alive the classes of people Tolkien was worrying about, who were too poor to be rural (even in Tolkien's time it was increasingly difficult to live a "simple" life unless you were loaded.) They also made possible a lot of the luxuries he took for granted. He couldn't even have his precious tea and taters if it weren't for England's colonial history, but the hobbits get those things for free despite not even living in a tea-growing climate.
I think Tolkien's concerns were more about industrialism run amok. Probably his most damning criticism of it was Isengard: Saruman destroyed a massive swath of forest in order to build up a massive war machine.
It's possible he did flat out hate industrialism in all forms, but given what we see in the book it's probably he was more interested in criticizing reckless destruction of nature for the purposes of killing or controlling each other.
On another topic, I never understand why people still shit on Lovecraft for being a fucking nazi. It's like it's right second on their list when someone mention liking Squidwriter, they go apeshit on him.
I remember hearing that Hitler wrote like shit, but hey, if a faggot from /pol/ who believes in a shitload of conspiracy theories happened to write top-tier stories, would you just pass on them because of the autor's autism ?
Moorcock has positively atrocious politics but he doesn't USUALLY inject it into his books and I still like him.
George Martin is way calmer about it but I find myself having a much harder time enjoying his stuff.
It got worse as it went along. The verbal tics accumulate one by one, especially after book 3. I get the feeling that GRRM has a word-a-day calendar and sometimes tries to stuff in a new word he's learned. Like "leal." In the first three books, nobody says "leal." Then once book 4 comes along, everyone's saying it.
Come on, you can't tell me with a straight face that it wasn't hilarious how he named his cat Nigger Man.
You want to read it ? Two things:
1/ You must be english/read it in english
2/ Not sure about this one actually, not even sure if possible...
Fuck it, every one has seen the series by this point
well, except me, but you get the point
Yeah and then he gives Bilbo a grandfather clock. Tolkien is a beautiful, brilliant writer and mythographer, but as a commentator on industrial ills his wisest advice is "Avoid putting evil wizards in charge of your military industrial complex."
>"Their chief is Crom. He dwells on a great mountain. What use to call on him? Little he cares if men live or die. Better to be silent than to call his attention to you; he will send you dooms, not fortune! He is grim and loveless, but at birth he breathes power to strive and slay into a man's soul. What else shall men ask of the gods?"
Bad idea, mate
To be fair he wrote those books during WWII, a conflict that basically happened because several countries for all intents and purposes DID put evil wizards in charge of their military industrial complexes.
Their relationship fell apart towards the end of Howard's life due to ideological differences. Lovecraft was extremely nihilistic, where as Howard was the type of guy who thought Humans could achieve great shit despite the cosmos's indifference to us. This is pretty clear in their writings, particularly in a game of round Robin they played with a couple other Weird Tales authors. In the chapter Lovecraft wrote, the protagonist transforms into a giant alien centipede and it horrified, where as in the following chapter by Howard, he decides that "lol fuck my human form anyways shit was getting boring" and proceeds to become king of the space centipedes.
>And for an example of life taking a shit on you for absolutely no reason, look no further than Túrin Turambar.
While this made me chuckle, it's not entirely accurate. Turin had several opportunities to change and benefit his life, and he fucked them all up (quite literally in one case).
>Lovecraft and Howard being fucking based
Fuck yeah, any link or title of the story ?
not generous enough