Vampiric Civilization

>>44156053
They're biology makes it impossible for them to have direct power except in small enclaves

I've also read up on "The Millennial King", a setting I found while browsing 1d4chan. And as a necromatic civilization, it has alot of ideas that I could see in a vampiric civ.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Millennial_King

>>44156053
Read VTM. pretty much the basis of a vampire societies in general. Though vampires in open society and not being hunted down would be hard to imagine.

At best they would be treated like 40 k psycers and a neccesary evil.

>>44156116
Perhaps they could bolster their numbers with other undead, like liches or willing/subservient thralls or just allied mortals. There is the idea of the Dhampir, a half human/vampire, that can be the result of coexisting with mortals.

>>44156053
Are they naturally occurring creatures? A virus? Curse? Other?

What kinds of abilities and weaknesses do they have?

How much magic is there? What kind of technology level is the world at?

How bestial/instinctive are they? Can they resist ripping a living creature's throat open if they get a little peckish?

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If you stick to the classic horror and morbid theme for tech, I'm sure you'd find all kinds of weird crap all over the place.
Pic related could be the common form of travel for a poor vampire unable to afford a horse-drawn coach.

>>44156728
OP here
Lets go with the Classic fantasy setting.
>Are they naturally occurring creatures? A virus? Curse? Other?
Perhaps the originated from a cursed individual that spread it around to victims or followers.
This individual could be seen as a legendary figure amongst the vampires themselves and can be the subject of worship.
>What kinds of abilities and weaknesses do they have?
Of course the common weakness would be the sun. If their cursed then objects of faith from the divinity that cursed them could be used against weaker vampire. You could include the other weaknesses such as water, stakes, and even garlic if you really wanted too, but while stakes can work, water would be tricky to work around with, and garlic is really silly.
>How much magic is there? What kind of technology level is the world at?
Lets say high magic so sorcery would be common and technology would be something you'd see in common medieval fantasy that includes stuff you'd see a dwarf make.
>How bestial/instinctive are they? Can they resist ripping a living creature's throat open if they get a little peckish?
This could vary in different ways, it can be a common theme that there is a strong beastial instinct that all vampires have to control, weaker vampires could be more subject to this, or certain parts of vampiric society could experience the hunger more than others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

>>44157195
Oy vey

Does anyone remember that Vampire Byzantium thread from a while back?

>>44157595
>Vampire Byzantium
Sounds intresting, could you possibly give a brief description?

Besides necromancy, what other forms of magic could be possible?
I can imagine a Vampire society perfecting the art of bloodmagic, shadow magic, and maybe even flesh crafting. This could lead to some monstrous creations, but I can picture an aristocratic Vampire wanting a more appealing creature so most flesh constucts would be made to be beautiful and symmetrical in their own morbid vision.

>>44158496
Charms/hypnosis, illusions, enchantment (they've got the time to do the big, powerful enchantments).

>>44158554
Yea this is really fitting, they could use these illusions to add to the horror behind the legends and stories that surround their homeland. Add even more to the terror that is already true or to just keep outsiders or opposing groups away.
The charms would help to bring in mortals to keep up the populace and economy. and I'm sure that with all the time on their hands a vampire could make some powerful magical items with the enchantments that they perfect over time.

>>44156053
Every single one of those questions has the same answer; "depends on how vampires work in the setting".

If you mean traditional fantasy vampires, I'm guessing the feudal model works best for them, with then treating serfs as not only property but food and competing for territory and resources so they can maintain their food supply.

>>44158738
>Every single one of those questions has the same answer; "depends on how vampires work in the setting".
If only I wrote it up better, then maybe we'd have somthing more to work with.

I'd think, using classic vampirism, they'd definitely have a feudal style society, comparable to medieval Englad mixed with Tsarist Russia. I'd think the vampiric nobles would be very careful about watching the different clans/families for expanding with acknowledged sires while their enforcers ride/fly around fucking with the technologically-suppressed serf populace. I'd think unrecognized vampires would be hunted as a threat to the nobility and the population unless they grew strong enough to force their way into the nobility's inner circle.

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>>44159180
WOW I just said "I'd think" a whole fucking lot.
It also lends to itself Rasputin serving as the lich advisor to the throne.

>>44158738
>>44159180
So a feudal style society would work, would they also have a sort of aristocratic caste system. Like the vampires are separated by generations or by the pureness of their blood, as in those who were born as vampires, if such a thing was possible.

>>44159529
Probably by purity of blood, then age, then gender, then wealth, or some mix like that.
There might be lesser nobles that are just humans bred for favorable traits, either physical, aesthetic or other.

>>44159529
Probably; each line would probably be descended from a patriarch/matriarch who was one of the originals or was turned into a vampire by the original, if there was one. Age would bestow more power within the "family" as you earn more trust and responsibility. Any kind of rank would probably come from your generation (where a generation is how many sires away from the patriarch you are); if your sire was, for example, the patriarch or one of their spawn, it would put you in a much more powerful position than if you were sired by a 20th generation vampire.

>>44159770
I also like the thought of Old Blood versus New Money, that is to say, Ancient, powerful vampires, few in number but great in strength and lacking in a more realistic world-view against thin-blooded, less powerful but younger and more business and culture savvy sires who aren't as mired in ideas of blood purity and old rivalries and making alliances with mortals, werewolves, and consorting with things older vampires scorn.

So if there was a single progenitor then it's likely they would be the subject of worship?
I also have the idea that this first vampire could have been the ruler/soon-to-be ruler of the original civilization that the current vampire society decended from. Perhaps an empire that worshiped a solar deity to add a level of drama. This ruler could have been cursed with the hunger for blood and commited a crime of drinking the blood of an important priestess or devotee of this diety and thus the ruler was cursed and damned to be burned by the suns light.

>>44160139
There would likely be a cult of personality around the progenitor. They would be deified by the culture. Even if they were a tyrant to the vampires or was just plain indifferent to them, the vampires would idealize the progenitor. If they were exceedingly cruel, the vampires would probably lock them away. If the progenitor was indifferent they may have left of their own free will, in which case the vampires may be actively seeking them out across the world.

Feudal Republic. Vampires make up the aristocracy and each owns a plot of land and the serfs that live there. More powerful vampires own bigger domains and can grant bits of them off to vassals. Cities are populated by non-serfs and younger less powerful vampires that don't have more powerful sponsers. Non-serfs can be 'ennobled' to vampire status. This, along with any other decision that effects the realm, is voted on in a lords council. There is no king, but the Council elects a Grand Prince as an official head. The Grand Prince has special voting priveleges, but no power outside their own land beyond that.

Eventually this society will be destroyed in a bloody cross between the French and Russian Revolutions.

So in a more coexistant society, how would it be for the humans that peacefully live along side with the vampires? In their government would there be a branch that gives the humans political power or are they represented by other vampires that were once human? Either way this branch, i'm sure, would be devoted to insuring the general safety of the mortals that live amongst the vampires.

In general, would there be a single unified vampiric civ or multiple? Perhaps their is a more necromatic society thats lead by powerful Liches that view the vampires as a threat. This can lead to a war between each sides undead legions if the vampires can control the dead, or if it's a blend of human troops and the more powerful vampire knights/soldiers.

>>44160309
What if the progenitor was more benevolent and just decided to stay with his people/children as a sort of watchful god. He rules from the sidelines and only takes full command when the vampires need to get their shit together and to stop infighting?

>>44156053
I think the best take on anything old&mysic vs techy&modern was daybreakers.
I fucking loved it so fucking much like oh my god.

>>44162079
>Daybreakers
Oh that is a great example, the technology and architecture was creative, like the underground streets, and the beastial creatures that they turn into can be somthing at most vampires can fear of becoming.

>>44162200
plus the cars with the permanently dark windows and cameras, the human blood bank, the consequences of drinking another vampires blood, the inevitable consequences of vampirism combined with corporate greed, and the way that one guy was immunized against the infection.

The best was still the seamless transition and hence comparison of corporate shady businesspeople / feudal vampire hierarchy

>>44161994
Would probably be seen a lot like Nurgle in Warhammer. Kindly, caring grandfather watching over his family (without the plagues and complete willingness to kill his flock). They might be a little distant emotionally, seeing the vast majority of the people they've ever known (including vampires) die over the years/centuries/millenia. Openly caring about their people but practically refuses to really interact with and become attached to anybody but perhaps the oldest of their "children" who have proven how well they've survived alongside him.

You know, if there were any mutations or evolutions that a vampire experienced, then what exactly could they be?
A good example of this would be the Legacy of Kain series where some of the vampires, depending on their clan, developed wings, grew resistant to water, and became physically tougher and stronger.
>>44162414
This works, I can picture the progenitor as some one who was caring, heroic, and well loved by the people it ruled in the past. Perhaps it seeks to rebuild what it had lost and attempts to bring it's vampiric flock to a peacful age, but the vampires inner beastial nature prevents this so the progenitor has centered this vampiric society around the notion of living peacefully with mortals to return a sense of humanity to it's children. Then there are some other vampire civs that just seek to rule over mortals, this can lead to all sorts of diffrent vampire societies that are split with coexisting with mortals, ruling them, or those who are simply neutral and left to their own devices.

>>44162690
You could have certain lines/families specialize in certain types of magic to the point where they naturally have bonuses to it.

For physical traits/abilities:
Increased senses
Speed
Strength
Durability
Sunlight resistance (not immunity)
Animal manipulation
Minor shapeshifting
Mist form

>>44163042
>You could have certain lines/families specialize in certain types of magic to the point where they naturally have bonuses to it.
This works.
These familial powers can either be inherited by blood or taught to newcomers. If so then I can imagine the secrets behind them to be highly guarded and protected by the most dangerous thing the family can muster.
I can also see the Sunlight resistance as being the most sought after power, perhaps belonging to the family with the closest bloodline/ties to the progenitor. This can earn them the ire or loyalty of the other families.

In general, what are the many ways a vampire society could sustain itself on blood. Besides owning slaves/thralls, how can they go about gathering large amounts of blood to feed their civilization and is there a way they can gather blood in a coexistent society with mortals?

OP here, I'm hitting the sack now so hopefully there will few more posts before the thread ends. Thank you everyone who has posted so far, I've gotten alot of ideas for me to better understand a vampire civ so far.

>>44164296
>In general, what are the many ways a vampire society could sustain itself on blood. Besides owning slaves/thralls, how can they go about gathering large amounts of blood to feed their civilization and is there a way they can gather blood in a coexistent society with mortals?
Pay for it.

Seriously, lots of people would be willing to give up a pint if they were offered actual cash. Given how fuckhuge the human population is, there is plenty of blood to be had.

>>44157803
Big pagan Roman Empire.

Romulous and Remus really were raised by wolves. They were were-wolves.

Big were-wolf aristocracy Roman Empire.

Then Jesus happened out in the eastern monotheism provinces. Promises of eternal life after death, working together for a Kingdom of God, God actually loves you rather than just tolerating your bullshit etc, etc.

Jesus dies but not before performing a ritual involving handing his 12 most loyal followers a chalice of his own blood. First vampire coven. A new priesthood bound by the blood of God.

High Priests get Roamsn to nail him to a tree for cuasing disturbance of peace and inciting rebellion with talk of a new kingdom. Dies as the sun rises.

The new priesthood spreads like wild fire across the eastern half of the Empire. Eventually Empire splits in half.

By this time the old were-wolf blood line has long since failed.

The politics of Vampire Byzantium is very fluid. They elect an Emperor every 4 years when they hold the Olympic games. Sometimes a ruler can go for many terms in office. Too many and people get pissed of an "accidents" happen. Elections are suspended in times of great war.

The Church holds everything together against the backstabbery in times of peace. They are extremely stable. Since the loss of their Messiah there have only been 2 or 3 Patriarchs/Matriarchs due to long life spans. The previous one is even still alive and just decided to retire to a monastery.

They also had these time capsule vault/tombs in case of the Empire ever falling.

It's an ethnic feudal state with nobles and classes. About a quarter to a third are vampires, and the rest are slave populations divided into classes.

The empire is carved into regions ruled by nobles and their houses, who in turn answer to the king who owns the largest house. Houses are basically Hamullas.

https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%97%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%94

Large ancient families capable of projecting power and owning a good chunk of the economy. Since the family unit of vampires is different, it's based on a sire and his children. After the end of the clan wars which culminated in understanding, the largest house was given kingship, and sireship was regulated to maintain stability and prevent a cold war of manpower. The sires grew comfortable with the security, wealth and position of powers afforded by the deal and maintain it happily, and the children for the most part obey the sires.

The slave populations are the fruits of war, and are given equally to the lower houses to prevent strife. In turn the clans are obliged to equally support the war effort with all they have. The slaves farm to feed themselves and maintain a local economy, their rights are minimal but their lives are not worthless. A vampire killing a slave will have to answer to a court to see if it was justified, since at best they can be demoted to blood bag class. Blood bags are the lowest of the low. They're blinded, crippled, hands and legs chopped off and chained to a wall. They're fed regularly and blood is taken from them to feed the vampire population. Deaths there occur only due to sanitary conditions and general degradation of health. Bureaucracy is added to make sure deaths due to too much blood loss are rare. Their heads and bodies are covered in black rags except for some holes for feeding and excrement. They're held underground as well.

The caretakers are the second lowest class. They maintain the blood bags, clean them, feed them and take care of the feeding areas.

>>44168182
The caretakers are not allowed to interact with other slave classes and are kept in captivity with the blood bags. It's encouraged for different slave races to maintain others, to prevent sympathy.

Other slave classes are allowed to freely roam, work and pay taxes. The most influential, fit and powerful are given for shireship. The blood bags are an open secret but away from heart away from mind, and each slave race believes he's treated better and held in a higher regard than the others. Bloodbags are common street swearwords in fights between members of different races, each thinking they're above such things.

>>44168182
>>44168214
Wouldn't blood bags be phased out with time though to get a more sustainable source of blood, and to prevent the slave races and individual clans within them from having a personal grudge?
I imagine there would be calls from the "middle class" slaves to end that practice and from some of the more sociopolitically aware and intelligent vampires as well.

There would be a transition to a blood tax, which adds the benefit of each slave lasting longer because of less physical duress, and the amount of blood collected would still be more than before.

Bloodbags would become a thing of myths and the past except for some of the more conservative houses who would want to keep one or two bloodbags out of tradition and in case of an emergency they could tap into their human servants. Even though the practice would officially not be legal, the old and powerful houses would usually have enough resources available to hide what they're doing, and enough pull with the others to smooth things out should someone discover it.

Occasionally some slave families would notice it when their relatives went missing under peculiar circumstances, but they would be seen as insane conspiracy nuts driven to insanity by the disappearance of their loved ones.

>>44168385
I thought about blood tax, but I think it would be more practical in a modern setting. It would otherwise cause more conflict. How would you extract the blood? Who wants to go to the other side of the city every 4 months and have a vamp bite your neck, then go back to talk about it. If there was a good way to extract the blood I think it could war. Key is away from heart, away from mind I think.

Blood bags are separated from the rest and treated by other races. New blood bags are taken from the slums and directly from war.

Maybe it could be a transition that happens inside the game?

>>44168431
Well the transition form the medieval to the renaissance would be the transition from the bloodbags to the blood tag in my view.
You also don't really need advanced technology to extract blood. You literally just need a group of vampires with a carriage with a huge barrel that travel to different parts of the houses territory every month. The slaves come to the town square, get checked for having obvious signs of illness, get their wrist washed and pushed into a tiny spike and then they have to hold it over a funnel for a minute or two, after which their names are ticked and they can go about their business again.

The problem with out of sight out of mind is the weak point the caretakers represent. They are not blinded and basically normal humans who have to watch the suffering of others every damn day without being treated as well as house servants. To break the will of each and every one of those would be extremely difficult and if even one manages to escape it could cause a revolt. Since they would have details and possibly physical proof of the things they saw.

>slums and war
You really sound like some aristocrat there lol. People of any social standing, especially the poor ones care about their family. A lot. And if no body is found some might become suspicious.

And yes, that's exactly what i meant. It wouldn't be a fast transition, just something to show that the macropolitics of the world aren't completely static, but in a state of change.

Players siding with the vampires could either crush this newfound hippie nonsense, or support it.
Players working against the vampires would have a harder time to incite an all out revolution because of the peaceful alternative, and the seemingly "humane" nature of some vampires pushing for a ban on bloodbags. And there would be the additional difficulty that killing a high ranking vampire in such a situation would have a serious impact on the political situation.

>>44168544
>>44168431
Killing a despicable heinous bloodbag supporter might feel good and justified, but it would give that side a martyr and an example of how the anti-bloodbag idiots are ruthless race traitors and kill their own kind, which would lead to them getting more support.

On the other hand killing an anti-bloodbag vampire would mean that that faction would be even more scared of the ruthless traditionalists.But it would get their cause widespread support from the slave population.
In other words such a transitional period offers great high stakes decisions with chaotic outcomes.

>>44168431
Also for context, I took the blood bags inspiration from Abe's Odyssey.

>>44168544
>They are not blinded and basically normal humans who have to watch the suffering of others every damn day

Maybe if you compare them to your every day human in this age. But people can be pretty savage. The Japanese practiced with spears on live targets in China. Abuse of animals and black people was considered entertainment. How would it then be for a goblin to treat a covered flesh bag of a drow? It has no legs or arms, it's almost always covered. It's a shit job but mostly because you clean shit. I think they'd see it in the same manner you view cows in a slaughter house. And they'd live down there underground with fellow caretakers, knowing only that for most of their lives. I think in that context they can take it ... relatively well.

>>44168642
But yes, I agree there would be a transition, both due to technological improvements, liberalism from vampires and discontent from the slave population.

Also realpolitik. Such a civ would be heavily despised and vilified by its neighbors. It could be seen as a diplomatic concession in return for peace and increased trade.

>>44168431
Plus, after the transition is also a nice period, because the inherent problem with any setting where vampires are common, is that it demystifies them.

In a blood tax setting like i described humans would be blissfully unaware of the heinous things some vampires do, and thus the encounters with such things would be all the more scary and poignant.

Young idealistic vampires wouldn't know that the old houses still have that practice and it could lead to a shattering of their rose tinted worldview of peaceful coexistence.

Vampires in the old houses would on the other hand constantly have to try and hide those practices from anyone not involved and set up a secret system of acquiring the bloodbags.

"middle aged" vampires would know about the shit going on, and it would be a point of conflict that they live in a world where only they know about some great evil that no one really has the power to stop.

>>44168642
If the caretakers were of a different race than the bloodbags, then yes this could be true, but on the other hand you seriously underestimate compassion. It wouldn't be like cows in a slaughterhouse either, because cows are generally not really self aware, intelligent being with complex feelings you can talk to.
Plus for people to do savage things in a military you need extreme mental conditioning and brainwashing, which also happens to wear off with time.
Someone is always going to question the status quo if it's horrible for some of the involved.
Just remember that slavery and some people taking a stand against it has lead to numerous wars.

>>44168686
I didn't even think about neighbors i thought that this was the dominant culture on the current continent.

Generally no vampire kingdom could exist with multiple non-vampire neighbors. The practice of what they're doing is so vile to most humans that war would absolutely definitely break out. Even if the kinds only do it to appease the upset civilian populace in the human kingdoms.

Earlier Blood magic and flesh crafting was brought up and I'm wondering if the vampires wouldn't just create some kind of literal bloodcrop, like a fleshy plant that produces a 'fruit' that's simply an organ or bag of flesh and blood. These horrific crops could help stabilize the food supply and lessen the need for using mortals or blood bags, as what was mention earlier. Blood bags can then be reserved for criminals so that the vampires won't have to waste a blood source.

>>44168782
>>44168642
Generally the idea of blood bags is extremely appealing, because it's so awesomely horrifying and probably a 'fate worse than death'.
Making them commonplace is neither logical, nor does it live up to the full horror potential of the setting.

Let me give you an example: In a dictatorship with a horrific secret police people would of course be scared of it. But it would be in the backs of their minds. They'd try not to slip up, and while living a live in constant fear might be a sort of psychological horror, but it isn't really very interesting. Of course no one you know was actually abducted by the secret police, but you know they exist, and you can live a fairly normal life if you just watch out. But if they happen to come for you it's just a panic to get away from something you know.

Whereas if you find out in a supposedly democratic country that the government with the smiling compassionate looking president is secretly abducting and killing people with your political views.... and all this only at the time when you yourself are being abducted,....
I personally think that would be a lot fucking scarier, because it shatters your entire worldview all of a sudden.

A real life example: people in the former eastern bloc countries, don't or didn't generally like to discuss important personal information over the phone, because it was an open secret that the secret police or others could listen in at any time.
Compare and contrast this to the outrage after people found out that the NSA is doing the same.

Even more importantly contrast the initial outrage with the amount of outrage there is NOW, even though the NSA basically didn't change shit.

>>44168779
There's indeed conditioning involved with the caretakers. They'll be of different races, and the blood bags are already greatly dehumanized, so it does not appear as if they're self aware, like cows. Cowls on the head, blinded, muted, no limbs, and constant familiarity that removes the novelty of such atrocities to the casual norm. It's like ISIS in a world where ISIS is still standard. But yes, can go with a growing need for change. All these things just slow it down, but not stop it.

I would assume there are neighbors. Gotta get the slaves from somewhere, and there must first be man before vampires. It would be a tog of war I suppose. Armies of man marching at day, vampires marching at night. An army of vampires are a terrible, terrible power house, and armies would be quite tired by day for being forced to be on alert at night. But the vampires are outnumbered on multiple fronts and enemy forces still move unchallenged by day, only to be pushed and slaughtered at night. And then of course there are the wars between the non vampire kingdoms. I don't think it's a stretch for a vampire kingdom next to other empires. It's more interesting to learn how they came to be an established power in the first place, and then of course how they maintain all that, which is the subject of this thread.

>>44168899
If going the more horror route, then that is a perfect terrifying idea.

>>44168900
>It's like ISIS in a world where ISIS is still standard.
You do have to keep in mind that one of the ISIL clergy has found the practice of burning people alive to be morally and legally unjustifiable and tried to defect.

He was immediately arrested, but that's beside the point. You can't do everything with people for prolonged periods of time.

Unless you go the way of perpetual war (in which case the entire setting is bollocks anyway, because neither blood bags, nor human slaves, nor any sort of society can be organized in perpetual war without modern technologies) a setting where vampire kingdoms are neighbors to multiple human kingdoms is not stable.
It would either lead to the eradication of most of the vampires and the stable state with a few powerful either in physical hiding or hiding their vampirism, or to the establishment of a grand vampire empire.

The stalemate you described isn't really one, because humans run out of resources, and fighting men, but vampires never run out of energy and powers as long as there are humans, and they never run out of vampires either since they can create new ones in a minute.
Thus in any potential stalemate the vampires win out, so the other two options are that the humans are superior and kill all vampires, or that the vampires are EXTREMELY superior and the human king doesn't allow an attack on the vampires, and the vampires don't try to take over, because the trade would suffer.

Should a human coalition that isn't FAR superior to the vampires decide to wage war upon the bloodsuckers, they would immediately turn a thousand humans, and win.

So really the only way this could exist is if the vampire kingdoms are bordering on only one or max 2 human kingdoms, or are separated by geographical means.

>>44169050
Or the rest of the human kingdoms are quite happy that the vampire kingdom exists because it keeps all of the blood suckers in one place and, more importantly, out of their lands.

If they were to go in with fire and silver and holy zeal and wipe the place not only off map but off the atlas you can bet your ass they will miss at least one.

It was said best in Legacy of Kain "So long as but a single one of us stands we are Legion".

Best to let them be in their own land, the "Kingdom upon which the sun never rises".

DO vampire society use animals?
DO they have pets?

>>44169117
They were human. Depending on how human they remain possibly yes.

>>44168900
In other words the following are the options of geopolitical stability:

a) perpetual war (in which case that's the only thing important about the society, because only wartime infrastructure can function)
b) humans massively overpower vampire kingdom and eradicate most vampires in a war leading to the standard vampire setting
c) humans and vampires are about equal, or humans are underpowered and humans begin a war, which vampires win. leading to a vampire dominated society we described above
d) humans and vampires are separated by geological means. leading to the samve vampire society described above


e) human kingdoms are equal or less powerful than vampires and they aren't compassionate and don't mind what the vampires are doing. This would lead to flourishing trade, but still no trade concessions, because they have been trading for ages like this and no one would want to change that. Essentially still the setting i described.

So what i'm trying to say is that pressuring the vampire society into not having bloodbags, by means of trade with their neighbors is not going to happen.

>>44169110
You seriously underestimate the power of holy zeal.

People have been fighting lose-lose wars for fucking ages, just because they disapproved of the other. If it's something as vile as sucking out peoples lifeblood, literally everyone and their mother would stand in the recruitment line.

>>44156053
See FB VC fluff. Strygos before its destruction is what you look for.

>>44169117
As a vampirosociolist I can attest that they do use animals. They use horses for long travels, ox for product transportation, they use animals for feeding their blood donors, and they grow sheep for wool. As for pets, insects are quite popular with vampires. Spiders are well liked. Some vampires take to cats as well, but only in a disciplined environment. Animals carry blood after all, and vampires can get drunk, and (then of course there's the rare case of toddler vampire that just has to stuff things in its mouth).

Damn i really want to play in a campaign with bloodbags now.

>>44167885
metal

>>44169256
There was more about the other half of the Empire falling apart, the reintroduction of a were-wolf aristocracy from Saxon noble houses and the formation of a Holy Were-wolf Roman Empire.

Also a secretive order of Russian Necromancers advising the line of Tzars ever since Koschei the Deathless.

Britain was becoming increasingly Fae-touched. The faeries had intermingled their blood with that of the Irish and its was spreading across the sea.

The Holy Roman Empire and the Byzantines were both in a cold war staring match. Both saw themselves as the true inheritors of the Old Empire. Neither knew who would have the advantage if shit started to go violent.

Can vampirism spread to other creatures, like animals in general? The only example I know of are the Vampire horses from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. I can see a Vampiric society using vampire enhanced animals as a better form of manual labor, like oxen that can plow larger fields without getting tired for too long.

If these are vampires that can use necromancy then I'm sure that their society would use the undead as servants and manual labor. Hell, the humans too could use the undead as well, so that would make the humans themselves the middle class and perhaps they wouldn't feel so powerless compared to the Vampires they live with or are ruled by.

>>44168686
>Also realpolitik. Such a civ would be heavily despised and vilified by its neighbors. It could be seen as a diplomatic concession in return for peace and increased trade.
If the large scale vampire empire used the illusion magic that >>44158554 mentioned then I'm sure the vampires would warp the land around them so as to deter other nations from attacking them, especially if the vampire empire is shrouded in legends of being in a haunted land where the dead roam and is full of other monsterous creatures.

>>44156053
Vampires are constantly the one percent. Vampirism is a gift that you get for being rich and successful and keeping your wealth.
It is only given after paying an exorbitant amount of money to another vampire, or otherwise gaining their favor.
There are no middle class vampires. They can't afford it and don't deserve it. They're food. The vampires pay them pretty much nothing for their blood. Drinking humans and such dry is illegal, since you're harming the peasant workforce.

If going the more evil route, would the vampires function more like the Dark Eldar from Warhammer 40k? Emotional Vampires themselves that need to torture mortals in order to sustain themselves and launch raids on worlds to capture slaves and then retreat to their dark city to continue living out their decadent lifestyles.

>>44170173
Tools if left untended for more than a year will seek out human blood.

>>44171437
So then, would such creatures be used for war instead?

>>44171971
Regardless of dick ass animus there is only a very limited amount of damage a wood chisel can do to someone in a shirt of chains.

What other races could the vampires align themselves with? I'd imagine liches with the whole controlling the hoards of the undead thing.

>>44172808
None.

They stand alone.

They barely socialize with their own kind.

They are a race of apex predators that don't even need others of their own kind to reproduce.

They are capable of putting aside their hate for each other to form an empire because they understand that the Empire is good for them.

Everyone else, they instinctively view, is a rival for he next meal.

>>44156053
Never understood the whole "All the living things are dead or foul because vampires rule here" trope.

A vampire would profit most from a normal thriving human settlement, while eating the undesirables who won't be missed.

>>44173091
>A vampire would profit most from a normal thriving human settlement, while eating the undesirables who won't be missed.
This was always somthing that I tried to get around to when ever I tried writing a coexisting race of vampires. The whole corrupting influence thing was always just somthing that followed vampires because of the whole preying on those they rule, raising the dead around them, and adding to the horror and dread of the land that the vampires currently inhabit.

If there was a vampirc empire or civilization then how large could it possible be or expande? Of course the number of humans would be more than the vampires themselves. But I also wonder what sort of landscape would best suit their society.

>>44172119
>a very limited amount of damage a wood chisel can do to someone in a shirt of chains.
I'm sure the vampires would at least supply their mortal troops with dependable gear. If the soldiers aren't fighting the they can serve as a blood source.

As said before, a feudal system would work well with them, maybe mixed with some Confederate south.
the society has three classes. At the top are the vampires, of course, the only ones allowed to own land or flesh. the empire is divided into small fiefdoms run by one vampire Lord, which would usually form a coven of lesser vampires around it for assistance and company. these lords elect their emperor, since vampires do not have royal lines. Infighting between lords rarely occurs openly, but it is still very prevalent.

Below the vampires are the citizens, free people of all races within the empire. These are the soldiers, the clerks, the aides of the vampires, and also make up the empire's middle class, of teachers and shopkeepers and suchlike.

Below the citizens are the serfs, who provide food, labour, entertainment and resources for necromancy. Each lord has large masses of serfs, most of them appointed to dull, unremarkable tasks like farming and woodcutting. Serious efforts are made to keep the stock up in the face of,regrettable but necessary losses, both by breeding and by raiding and trading with other nations for slaves.

While most die where they are born, the empire does have a degree of social mobility. Serfs can, with exemplary skills and a lot of luck, be set free and turned into a citizen. Citizens can be both made into serfs as legal punishment, and be turned into a vampire if the local lord wishes it so. Vampires will always be vampires but even among vampires there are differences in power and influence.

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>>44156053

Ever heard of a Civ 4 mod called Rise From Erebus? I'd like to believe it would be a bit like these guys http://fallfromheaven.wikia.com/wiki/Calabim
Basically the simplest way to control large populations of humans with a small population of vampires is to have the humans control themselves. Create a society in which you promise a select amount of hopefuls to become future vampires and use them to keep the rest in check.
Kind of imagine how the SS used some of the jewish prisoners as guards and enforcers.

The actual mod has alot more content about the faction and sadly I dont have it anymore and can't remember much of it.

>>44176441
>>44176721
OP here, I've been gone for awhile but I'm back now. Glad to see the thread is still up. These are all interesting ideas guys, thank you.

>>44174325
If its internally stable then it could, with the right conditions and patience, engulf the world.

>>44177463
>patience
They've got all the time in the world.

How strong do you guys generally accept a single Vampire can become? Since their long lives allow them to train at certain skills for as long as they last then it's said that a vampire can certainly become a devastating master at both martial and mystical skills. And this isn't even getting into a group of vampires, let alone an entire army. Course their would be difficulties feeding a lasting army of vamps, but if possible then it'll certainly cause a lot of damage to any poor sap that finds himself in front of a charging vampire line.

>>44177906
Power is linked to age and status.

A freshly turned newb on the bottom of the social heap, barely grown their first set of fangs is barely above human.

They are a bit stronger, a bit harder and have better night vision.

A centuries old Vampire Lord has hit the level cap in terms of their Dark Blessing maturing. They can be killed by mortals still. It's just not very likely unless they get hit with a siege weapon or something.

When you find a member of the aristocracy who has had their job for longer than lesser empires last you know not to fuck with them because not only are they an apex level predator but they can also socially and politically outmaneuver you and leave you out of court favor.

How's it hanging, Nathan? Enjoying yourself?

>>44178059
Ah, court intrigue, I forgot about that. It's all too likely that an old Vampire that's seen entire nations rise and fall, would just have to lift an eyebrow and he'd have unleashed entire guilds of assassins that are out to kill the one guy that was foolish and unlucky enough to spill the vampires chalice of blood.

>>44176441
their was a movie like that Abraham Lincoln vampire hunter made sense for the vampires to be the owners of a bunch of slave platations

>>44178434
>Slave Plantations
Would it be possible for vampires to literally breed and rise humans the same way as cattle?

What kind of different ways could a human become a vampire?

>>44179630
they pretty much kept them as normal slaves occasionally invited a group into the manor for a party where they drain their blood and id imagine they occasionally drag one every now and then to the hidden chamber to drain their blood

>>44180492
I see, thank you.
So out side of cities, it comes down to vampiric lords ruling over their servents/slaves on small or large plots of land where food is grown for mortal citizens or cattle is bred and raised for the vampires.

>>44180604
pretty much and the profit made from the slaves allows them to live lavishly

What would be the perfect land or terrain that a large scale Vampiric city could be built in?

Sanctuary had a Vampire civilization. The story went that the rulers of the ancient world, the pharaohs, the kings etc, were all Vampires and they greatly advanced the world with technology and medicine and other knowledge. They were worshipped in some places, and they ruled over humans as 'benevolent gods' (at least thats how they saw it).

Then the humans rose up and destroyed them, cast their cities down and ushered in the dark ages because without the vampires the advanced knowledge they enjoyed disappeared.

It was kind of interesting stuff, shame Sanctuary went belly up.

>>44181568
>Sanctuary
This does sound intresting, it's too bad that such a thing ended, imagine the rest of the stuff it could have added to the vampire mythos.

>>44181818

Eh probably not much. By the time Sanctuary starts the Vampires are gone, their last city was wiped out in a secret operation during WW2 by a combined US, British and Russian operation. Their civilization was most background story, but it was cool background story.

The last vampire left is Nikola Tesla, who spends most of his time trying to revive his species.

>>44181895
I see, well it serves a purpose with helping the thread gain an idea for a vamp civ.

So as OP brought up, what sort of gods would a vampiric race worship besides the first original vampire? I'm guessing they'ed also worship the first spawn of the progenitor or his vampiric lovers, woman that became what the vampires would refer to as the 'Dark or Black Muses'.

>>44182981
If they are highly predatory they would probably have a god of "the hunt" or something like it.

If they are concerned with staying hidden a god of secrecy/intrigue would likely be worshipped as a guardian to their kind.

A god of hunger/consumption as a reminder of their nature; it could be a rampant destroyer by nature that even they fear.

For vampires concerned with using their Eternities well, a god of knowledge and skills, much like Athena.

>>44183192
Sounds cool so far, but I'm wondering how badass and metal we can take it, these are vampires after all. I'm thinking that using some of the Aztec/Mayan gods as a base would be perfect, what with the whole sacrificial stuff. Perhaps their is a god of death that constantly desires to claim what remains of the vampires souls, a sort of Vampiric Norse Hel that hungers for souls instead of blood.

>>44183192
A God of the hunt would work, a deity that strives to keep the vampiric hunger in check and who teaches the vampires to only consume enough to survive and to never glut themselves, lest they fall to the corruption of the God or beast of hunger/consumption.
>>44183330
A little Norse I see, perhaps there's a more valiant warrior God that protects the vampires from the death God and which teaches them to overcome the beast within themselves. I can imagine a cult or order of vampiric warriors dedicated to this god, and which they seek only the blood of strong foes to drink.

>>44183192
So if there was a progenitor then he'd be seen as the head? And what exactly would he represent? Perhaps blood magic in general or darkness, even the concept of being an immortal capable of living for throught the ages.

>>44184325
Allfather-type god; the population of vampires owe their existence to the progenitor. Would probably also get lumped into being the god of the night/darkness.

>>44184530
And if it was evil it would most likely be made the source for all sacrifices.

Aztec vampires sounds cool, somthing diffrent from the gothic medieval variety.

>>44181485
A broken landscape of chokepoint terrain for defence and shade.

But that is small scale.

For large scale it would need a large sustainable population of people. So fertile soil with good weather.

>>44190366
>A broken landscape of chokepoint terrain for defence and shade.
So a mountainous or canyon like terrain, where they might build their cities under overhangs and the crevices and cave systems.

>>44183192
Go Bogomilist.

There is a God. There is a Devil.

The devil made the world as a prank.

>>44190550
>>44181485
or..
Essentially the same as all vampire myths: High as fuck snowy mountains, in an extremely mountainous region, where you have to travel for days before getting out of it, dense as fuck forests, waterfalls, with the city nestled between some mountains with only one easily passable entrance to it, that you could miss if you glanced over it. That plus huge cavern systems beneath.
Think a mix between markarth and falkreath from skyrim.
Basically a mix of the carpathians and the black forest.

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Basically this

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>>44190921

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>>44190942

>>44190851
Would make them unassailable as they could strike without warning and be active in the daylight hours.

Could be where they originate/holy land and last call back point.

But to have an Empire you need numbers so they would either have to either have captured a land capable of maintaining a larger population early on or start elsewhere and retake their holy land.

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>>44190984
Cities like markarth and falkreath could be enormous and sprawling (for medieval times) if it weren't for the compressed geography of skyrim.

Even better, if the valley basin their deep opens to has a river in it, all the goods could be shipped u the river to the city.

There can be arable land right around the corner of one of those deep valley and high mountain systems.

>>44191233
From this thread I'm getting an image of a Byzantine Switzerland with a sort of Bogomilist faith and vampire Jesus for a religion.

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>>44191233

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>>44191316

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>>44191334
these patches of arable land ant the canyons are close to each other.

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>>44191386
Carpathians.
You know where the modern vampire myth originated.

>>44191271
>>44191453
>>44191271
Also their Joan of Arc type figure is Vlad the Impailer.

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>>44191453
This place which looks fertile enough

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>>44191561
and this place are literally minutes away from each other.

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>>44191597
finally this thing. called the altar stone.

>>44191661
That is the best fucking name I could ever imagine for a big ominous rock sticking out of a primeval forest.

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>>44157195

>>44190550
Essentially yes. but to put it more simply:
-in geography the Transylvanian origins of the vampire myth would d the setting justice in any case.
-The state would be a mix between german mini-fiefdoms and byzantium.
-In religion, you can go nuts as long as the progenitor is worshipped.

>Be Romanian
>All these westerners misunderstanding an originally Hungarian tale attributed to my nation and raping my nation's shitty folklore while at it

Listen here youfuckers, if you want to do medieval Transylvania vampireland just make it like this:
>Subregion of a large not!Hungarian kingdom, protected by mountains to one side and the rest of the kingdom to the other
>Population living as feeding livestock is highly rural, lives in mostly iron-age conditions
>The not!Hungarian king has made a pact with the vampire voivods that they can feed on as many peasants as they like as long as the vampires stay loyal to the kingdom
>Other two similarly undeveloped, backwards kingdoms try to make incursions into this region but fail most of the time.

>>44191918
The point was that this was supposed to be an entire vampire society. Where vampires where the dominant species, and not just a fringe group.

Also, i didn't see anyone trying to rape any sort of folklore apart from the person who mentioned vlad the impaler.

The only reason i brought up transylvania is because the myth originated there and the geography would suit even a vampire run civilization, not just one or two vampires hiding somewhere.

>>44169354
what happens next

>>44192573
That was the current starting date of the setting.

>>44192716
can you tell me more about Russia and the necromancer order

>>44192773
Ok, so I didn't read much of this thread, but I love vamps. Did anyone talk about them living far North or South in tundra. Also, if you have a vampire society that's not highly aristocratic, what's the point?

If magic is high in the setting, they should essentially farm mutated humans that are just stupid walking blood packs. Farmers walk their herds around feeding them what? I have to assume they live somewhere with little sunlight. Maybe they keep herds underground and feed them fungus. Only the richest of vamp douches can afford real human food sources as these thralls would have to be well cared for like a prized dairy cow so that they produce the most succulent potent blood.

I also assume the slave trade is prolific as fuck. Vampires can't own vampires but other races are fair game. If there are orcs or goblins in the setting, they probably have a very profitable slave trade going on.

Finally, really rich vamp douches should have exceedingly beautiful human slaves who are sometimes treated even better than family and kept as concubine thralls. Some vamp lords become obsessed with them and go to great lengths to keep them happy as they'll threaten to stop eating if they are mistreated.

I see the thread has picked up.
>>44191661
Thanks for the pics and info anon, this helps to paint a better picture on what the land could look like.
>>44191918
>All these westerners misunderstanding an originally Hungarian tale attributed to my nation and raping my nation's shitty folklore while at it
It happens, but thanks for the suggestion.
>>44193406
Good stuff, I never thought about using underground fungus to feed the Vamps mortals.
>I also assume the slave trade is prolific as fuck.
With the slave trade, I can imagine the Vampires working with or coming to blows with a nearby Dark elf civ over raiding rights or trade agreements. And the thought of two elder races with superiority complexes going to war is a cool idea.
>
Finally, really rich vamp douches should have exceedingly beautiful human slaves who are sometimes treated even better than family and kept as concubine thralls. Some vamp lords become obsessed with them and go to great lengths to keep them happy as they'll threaten to stop eating if they are mistreated.
This Idea I really like, as it helps with being an example on how some more harsher Vamps could see the mortals they rule over or coexist with.

For the god-like progenitor, I can see it representing the whole idea of "a ruler should be both feared and loved, only choose fear if they can't have both, and always avoid being hated."
It rules over immortal creatures that struggle with a beast within them while they in turn are bound to the progenitor by blood and curse. You can be sure that some of the vampires would desire the chance to rule over the others or to free themselves of the progenitors rule. Thus it'll have to be ruthless when dealing with dissenters as these are it's own monstrous kin, but being generous and loving to those that follow it's teachings of mastering the beast within and being able to live peacefully amoungst mortals.

Are we sticking to the typical vampire or are we just brainstorming?

>>44192773

The Russians were never really explored in that thread very much beyond necromancers and sinister wizards always having a place by the throne.

From Koschei the Deathless to Rasputin the Mystic.

Magic that wasn't inherent due to fae-blood or vampire blessing was never common in that setting. Russia was the exporter of weird people with beards. Why? Nobody knew, they just seemed to generate more wizards than anyone else.

That was about it before the thread died last time. There was talk of were-bears as elite Imperial Guard but the idea was dropped as too fucking stupid. Instead it was just a story told by merchants to impress locals. The Imperial Guard did have magnificent beards however and were built like bears.

>>44196346
I doesn't seem to have been nailed down for this thread beyond start out weak and get stronger as they mature.

>>44197688
Sounds like we can work a little more with any kind of vampire that still resembles the classic. Why don't we go ahead and get a bit more creative with the Vampires that make up this civ.

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Ok, so a few questions.

>what part of the world do the vamps live in
>how big is their population
>how big is their human crop population
>what tech level
>can vamp chicks have big titties or did they shrivel out in undeath
>why aren't they masters of snow magic
>how much do they resemble humans
>why didn't they enslave werewolves or an army of zombie goblins
>do they have undead minions at all
>are they fuedal
>what kind of cities we talkin' 'bout
>do they live underground at all

>>44198705
Everything right now is speculation, creativity, and idea sharing, but I'll attempt to give some answers for the sake of it.
>what part of the world do the vamps live in
Somewhere naturally dark or clouded I'd assume, some anons have suggested a few and one anon above posted pictures of what the terrain can look like based off real places.
>>how big is their population
Most are saying that vampires would have a small population but OP is wondering if it's possible for them to be on a large empire scale. And other anons have givin ideas on how.
>>how big is their human crop population
If it's the empire scale then it'll have to be large though when going fantasy it dosen't just have to be humans. We're using the term mortal so fantasy races that have large population, like goblins or orcs, can supply demand for cheap blood.
>what tech level
Fantasy dark age/medieval and what evers possible for a dwarf to build without getting too much into ancient advanced civs.
>can vamp chicks have big titties or did they shrivel out in undeath
How can you seduce dumb mortal men without the big titties?
>why aren't they masters of snow magic
Cool idea anon. If the vamps live in a mountainous region then this would be useful for them. Unleash an avalanche on an army of vamp hunters.
>how much do they resemble humans
Fully though it can vary depending on family, bloodline, or clan. Some can degenerate into beast and maybe their are other types of vampires. Though we don't have to stick to humans. Dark elf vampires, anyone?
>why didn't they enslave werewolves or an army of zombie goblins
They can either enslave or ally with other horror races and if they know necromancy then they can raise the dead.
>do they have undead minions at all
Again, if they know necromancy. Which they can since they have the time for it and maybe they'd like to perserve a favorite slave/Thrall.
>are they fuedal
We've posted Idea on how they can be.

There's just no way any vampire only nation could be very large and be sustainable. Either it becomes too much of a nightmare to keep up food production, food slaves rebel or fledglings keep roaming out of territory and the other nations get pissed then proceed to wage holy war on you.

It makes much more sense for them to be a smaller nation of highly powerful individuals living way down in the Southern mountains near in a tundra with really dark winters. They are less of a threat, would make sense if they brought wealth to their kind by being highly skilled mercenary or assassin bands and if their numbers are smaller there's less chance the others will make a huge crusade against your wickedness.

>>44198705
>>44199209
>what kind of cities we talkin' 'bout
Large if going with the empire route, though their can be small 'farming' communities and plantations that grow food for the mortal slave's or citizens and also breed and grow cattle/mortals for blood.
>do they live underground at all
They can, it's possible, and it makes since to have a few cities or strongholds underground, away from the sun. Perhaps they've taken over or occupied dwarven holds that were abondoned or haunted.

>>44199263
Part of the thread discussion is finding ways to make a large scale vampire civ work. Though, of course, they don't have to be unified, there can diffrent and smaller vamp civs and the idea you suggested-
>It makes much more sense for them to be a smaller nation of highly powerful individuals living way down in the Southern mountains near in a tundra with really dark winters. They are less of a threat, would make sense if they brought wealth to their kind by being highly skilled mercenary or assassin bands and if their numbers are smaller there's less chance the others will make a huge crusade against your wickedness.
Is both cool and can work.

>>44156137

They would have to form the ruling elite,or else have some traditional role in the dominant religion. Vampires in a position of weakness would be hunted to extinction before the age of the gun.

>>44200809
>Vampires in a position of weakness would be hunted to extinction before the age of the gun.
This gave me the idea of a vampiric assassin guild or even an inquisition dedicated to hunting those who would endanger or ruin the vampire civs stability.

So whats the general consensus on the vampires going feral or beastial as they lose control over their bloodthirst?

>>44202362
In the previous thread stability was because of the church.

They might get a new Emperor elected every 4 years but the Patriarch/Matriarch is a job that last for centuries.

The church doesn't care if aristocrats are killing each other so long as they don't rock the boat too hard and society remains functional.

>>44204365
The ones that lack self control devolve into cannibalistic predators completely ruled by their emotions.

One that is fully gone is just an animal that looks like a person.

Strong will power is one of the things they look for when recruiting.

>>44191661
This has to be where people are traditionally taken to be elevated to the rank of Risen Dead.

A ceremony performed at sunset.

>>44207943
So mortal would willingly give themselves up to be risen as the dead? Perhaps there a guaranteed that their souls won't be trapped within their walking corpse.

>>44208238
They believe in Vampire Jesus with his blood of God and such.

Vamperism is merely an extension of life and becoming one of His priesthood.

>>44208337
That thread had a lot of interesting stuff, but you don't have a link to it, do you?

>>44164296

Blood fountains.

A gift from their gods. Of course, only the most powerful families have control over them. Their nobility and priesthood.

>>44168642
>>They are not blinded and basically normal humans who have to watch the suffering of others every damn day

>>Maybe if you compare them to your every day human in this age. But people can be pretty savage. The Japanese practiced with spears on live targets in China. Abuse of animals and black people was considered entertainment.

Realistically we cannot forget the inherent cruelty of the human creature. Really as long as a person is not in our tribal group we're not likely to see them as people.

Modern US uses depleted uranium in warfare. Besides being carcinogenic (causing a 4000% increase in cancer) it's also a genotoxin causing horrific mutations leading many newborn children to resemble chaos spawn. There are no plans to stop using this ammunition. In this sense we have not evolved since the days of smashing infant heads against walls and crucifying people.

I don't see why a race of vampires would treat humans any better, save to keep the peace or perhaps if they had a humanity stat.

>>44209676
>Blood fountains
So really large magical fountains in city/town squares or open spaces where vampire citizens or their thralls can gather, meet, and trade with each other while they wait to recive their quota of blood or just purchase it.
Though if shuch a thing were poisened that could prove devastating to the population.

>>44209931

they deserve it if they're stupid enough to have those things undefended.

The Blood is Life. So these things should be heavily fortified.

>>44209917
>I don't see why a race of vampires would treat humans any better, save to keep the peace or perhaps if they had a humanity stat.
Of course some vampires would see humans as nothing more than a food source, but some of the same vampires that see the humans as their major source for blood would want to unsure that they live long and relatively safe lives. It's just like taking care of your crop and cattle, the better care you show them, the more you've insured that you'll have a meal to eat.
And this isn't even getting into the vampires that want to stay as humane as possible.

>>44209966
Of course, and it's likely that those getting the blood wouldn't even ever see the fountain itself as they'ed have workers bring the blood to the citizens themselves.

>>44209676
Would it be possible for their to be distilleries that are ment to refine blood and gore into a quick substitute.

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>>44157195

If I remember correctly, there was a pretty good example of the relationship of a vampire and his thralls in the Gotrek and Felix novel "Vampireslayer". It takes the point of view of the thrall a few times and the vampire contemplates on his thralls. Even going on about how he'll need to get a few of them to breed for a new generation of servents.

>>44210008
Also the vampires with still living family.

They ensure that they find good husbands and wives for their living clan. They are breeding perfect people to make into perfect Risen.

Also there is the prestige if a member of your living family wins in the Olympics or gets a job in high office or officers in the legions.

>>44211473
> still living family.
Oh of course!
I've focused so much on adoptive bloodlines that I've forgotten about the still living relatives.
Though now I wonder how such a family would be structured. Of course the vampires would lead it, but is it possible for the mortal members of the family to be able to lead and hold power?

>>44211473
These families are all likely huge.

>>44211740
If someone is not of sufficient individual merit or worth then they do not receive the Dark Blessing.

If they are then once they are beyond child bearing years, but before they start to get too infirm with age, and so long as they are in good standing and God fearing they are offered an extension to their time on earth.

Most of the Risen men get to their 50s as human, the women some time in their 40s.

It is not that the Risen are given wealth and land and titles because they are Risen. They become Risen because they are successful.

But vampires live a long time and to maintain open places at the top of the hierarchy the Empire needs to make new places and the Empire is ever aggressive as a result. The Risen are encouraged to participate in wars of expansion as it makes victory more likely and thins the herd at all levels of society allowing for more social mobility.

The social mobility, exaggerated in the telling as it might be, is important. It makes people believe that they or their children or someone in their family might one day become one of the Risen through deeds and good work. And it is true, they might. It gives people a personal stake in their Empire and so will be less likely to rebel.

The Vampires are outnumbered 1000+ to 1 in their own Empire. They are smart enough not to intentionally rock the boat for no reason.

Also the Risen take care of their families. Use political clout to get them lands in conquests and start new clans/tribes/lesser noble houses.

>>44211964
Creative.
Add in the possibility of slaves and servitor races that the mortal citizens can own and I'm sure it'll keep them happy knowing that their already a step closer to acting like their vampiric relatives.
Now I'm sure that to keep themselves in order, the vampires likely have a hierarchy. The basic I can think of would elders at the top and new bloods at the bottom with potential new vampires even lower. Though what if there is another type of vampire like suggest above? Vampires that were more powerful than the standard and were actually able to breed, albeit, at a slower rate than mortals.

>>44211964
>>44212204
Also I like the term Risen. It's fitting in a way.

For the military, I suggest sky-chariots pulled by giant bats. Stereotypical I know, but honestly badass.
Could be the source of the vamp civs legend of their version of Santa Claus.

>>44212204
I'm not sure about the breeding thing. It removes one of the needs for humanity and the connection to a human past. However distant.

Perhaps there could be a bit of a quirk. Risen men cans, extremely rarely, father children with mortal women. Its very rare, almost mythical.

They have some of the advantages of a vampire; some degree of heightened strength, speed and endurance but also the weakness to sunlight and silver.

They get the longevity but are sterile by both the natural means and the turning people means.

But they don't need blood to live.

They are traditionally emissaries of the Emperor/Empress or Patriarch/Matriarch with the barbarian kings outside the Empire. They showcase many of the perfections of the Risen without the need for human blood that upsets so many.

For social hierarchy you have

Emperor/Empress - Elected every 4 years in times of peace. Olympic games doubles as coronation ceremony. Their word is law. They don't officially have an army but do have about 200 personal body guards and property guards.

Kings and Queens - Are sworn to obey the one above them in all things but in practice are mostly left to themselves. They maintain small elite armies of their own. These armies are usually the only ones you will find Risen soldiers.

Lord and Ladies - The administrators of the Kingdoms and their lands.

Dukes and Duchesses - The military leaders and such of the Kings and Queens. Their armies are the legions of the Empire. You might rarely find a Risen officer. Rarely. Usually they have to annoy someone higher up to get this sort of job.

Counts and Countesses - The lowest secular, civilian rank of the Risen. They oversee the correct running of an area of the lands handed to them by the Lords and Ladies. They get a percentage of anything produced by the land and it peoples as well as a free manor house and/or castle. They have no army although they do employ sheriffs to keep the peace.

>>44212600
>Perhaps there could be a bit of a quirk. Risen men cans, extremely rarely, father children with mortal women. Its very rare, almost mythical.
This works and it'll make the half-breeds very valuable spies against of other civilizations. Some of those tribes could be werewolves as well.
Though if the proginitor was looking to make the vampires a stable race then there might be some experimentation on these half-breeds.
This hierarchy would work as well, giving the vampires something to work towards for their long lives and a lot of potential social maneuvering and assassination plots.

>>44212600
There are stories of illegal Risen getting employed as sheriffs but this is either bullshit or people turning a blind eye for reasons.

Beneath Count you get the mortal ranks.

Chosen - the highest secular, civilian rank a mortal can get. For what ever reason they are singled out to be amongst the Risen when they reach a proper age and hopefully wisdom. You are definitely not going to end up as food. Killing you carries the same death sentence as if you were Risen already.

Citizen - Freedom to travel, own property, own slaves and indebted servants, do military service, join the priesthood, get married and do many things without having to ask permission from the Counts first. Although it is considered polite to inform them or one of their attendants if you are getting married or about to do something big. You might end up as food in a real emergency but killing you will be dealt with harshly.

Civilian - You have some freedoms. You can marry who ever you want and if your higher ups give you permission. You can join the military or clergy or travel should you get permission. Permission is usually granted because there is hardly a reason not to. You can't actually own property or slaves and such but you can get a long term lease that is basically amounts to the same in practice. Might end up as food but you would have to piss someone off first.

Subject - Usually part of a conquered population or a Civilian/Citizen who has done something stupid. Can marry and have kids with permission. Excluded from military, clergy or traveling without a permit. Look at the wrong person wrong and you are food.

Slave - You dun Goofed. Holy shit you fucked up to get here. Subjects that fuck up are Slaves. You have no rights. If you were any lower you would be dead.

>>44212858
What about including the rank of Helot, a Greek practice of a person who was basically a half slave and was tied to the land, and primarily worked in agriculture. These can be the guys that are owned strictly by the empire itself that have to grow all the food for the mortals and can still be drained for blood in emergencies, but they still have the slight chance to rise to a higher status.

>>44213073
That would be indentured servant personally owned by the Emperor.

They have given up their freedoms of Citizenship or Civilianship for the good of the Empire. Also for protection. Mostly for protection.

You get in deep trouble for damaging the Emperor's personal property.

>>44213449
I can see this, seprate from the Emperor's personal flock of thralls but still considered his property. Maybe one day they'll have the chance of joining that flock, maybe.

>>44212858
>Slave - You dun Goofed. Holy shit you fucked up to get here. Subjects that fuck up are Slaves. You have no rights. If you were any lower you would be dead.
I'm seeing that this rank could be made up of all the guys the vampires have 'deemed' to be criminals.
Also, if the Vampires know necromancy and use the undead for manual labor, then the slaves would be reduced to nothing more than food.

>>44213741
Corruption varies from place to place.

Some places are almost benevolent dictatorship.

Others are worse than Stalin + Hitler if HitlerStalin was also Polpot.

As a way to keep control of their Mortal subjects, I thinking the vampires would instill some kind of quota law where the mortals have to produce a certain number of children or just keep it below a certain number.

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>>44214129
Mortals produce children regardless.

The quota runs the other way. Its a limiting factor put on the Risen to regulate feeding and Ascension.

It is imposed by the church.

Nobody messes with the church. They aren't as powerful as the Emperor but they are stronger than any individual King or Queen. They have their Templars and Inquisitors.

Most of the church is mortal. But whilst most of the government is made of Risen not willing to get involved in fighting and just a few Risen warriors the church can field way more Risen.

From the monks to the priests and even to the Patriarch himself all will turn upon you.

And given the lack of internal strife and assassinations the church has a disproportionate number of centuries old grumpy old bastards with no sense of humor at all.

Every so often some idiot will try to challenge the church. They are usually paraded around the Empire. Given the size of the Empire they have to be cut up quite small.

>>44214572
>the church has a disproportionate number of centuries old grumpy old bastards with no sense of humor at all.
I see these guys as the ones who are so anal about following the word of the proginitor god, unintentionally twisting his teachings and forcing everyone to worship how exactly they feel is the correct way.

>>44214906
That may be. They have good intentions and do put some breaks on the aristocracy.

Just aren't very flexible.

The higher fantasy a setting gets the less anyone fucking cares about you being a vampire

"BLAH! I HAVE COME TO SUCK YOUR BLOOD! FEAR ME I AM THE NIGHT"

Is a whole lot less compelling when dragons, liches, demons and demigods run around and wizards fuck with reality on a daily basis. They're just another entry in the monster manual/bestiary/whatever.

This happens even in settings like WoD where vamps have a central role. Ddmons, geists, and mages don't give a rats ass about dumb entitled leeches ranting about their mastery just cuz their great great grand daddy hit someone with a rock

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Important factor is how much blood a vampire needs to sustain himself.

>>44176721
I cannot recommend Fall From Heaven II enough to anyone here who wants to play a vampire civ. You get to feed entire, well-fed cities to your vampires to give them more experience and, roleplaying-wise, adopting any religion but the Empyrean makes sense.

Though FfH vampires are pretty unique: they're nominally alive, consume souls (which kills the person and is established as the worst fate ever, in a setting where hellish dimensions are a thing) instead of blood, don't seem to have any special power besides what their long-lived experience with magic and combat can give them, and the only weakness they actually have is that the God of light and truth mindrapes them with the suffering of everyone they've either gobbed each time they catch some sunlight. Their patron God is Aeron, Angel of Rage, strength, murder, and the strong ruling over the weak, and they specialize in Body, Shadow, Mind and Death magic mostly out of convenience.

There's a pretty cool moment in the Decius campaign when, while negotiating with his master Flauros, he pulls out a sword that's coated with a special poison and dares him to risk facing centuries in extreme pain if Decius ever manages to hit him before Flauros can kill him. FfH vampires are dangerous but not invulnerable, and where almost driven to extinction by humans during the Ice Age. So when the game takes place, every other civ knows there's something deeply wrong with them but few know they're true nature, which keeps them from being wiped out.

You also have a mortal hierarchy with Bloodpets (human servants kept groomed to feed vampires in need of a quick snack) and Moroi (who are fed vampire blood to enhance their strength).

Pretty neat.

Pic related is a cool inspiration, though Requiem Vampire Knight takes place in a crazy version of Hell so most of it isn't directly applicable.

>>44214992
I'm sure that if there was an empire of vampires then some of the more fanatical civs would consider them a threat, especially if they lunch raids to capture new slaves. Don't forget that the common, uneducated, superstitious peasant would still be afraid of somthing he can't immediately tell apart from a normal human. Yea a vampire is still a monster on a list, but when actaully facing one it'll still be the scariest thing right in front of you.

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>>44215513
>Pic related is a cool inspiration, though Requiem Vampire Knight takes place in a crazy version of Hell so most of it isn't directly applicable.
As long as it inspires, then someone will be able to come up with something cool.

Assuming we have a finished idea of a vampiric empire, what would be the best form of rival/enemy civilizations to go up against our budding bloody empire?

>>44213948
>benevolent dictatorship.
So like a vampire that does what is absolutely necessary to keep the other vampires, especially the younger ones, in line? Including public executions?

>>44215513
>Important factor is how much blood a vampire needs to sustain himself.
Perhaps just enough to sate the hunger for awhile, but if it's depending on age then it's possible that older vampires that have become very powerful might require even more blood.

>>44215513
>Fall From Heaven II
Sounds intresting, I'll be sure to check this out.

Is there a bloodline or clan based system of vampires?

>>44216750
Were-wolf Holy Roman Empire to the west and tiefling Ottoman Turks to the east.

>>44218487
Especially public executions.

>>44222604
>Chained to the city gates an hour before dawn
Radical.

>>44222590
>Were-wolf Holy Roman Empire to the west and tiefling Ottoman Turks to the east.
Just cool, as someone mentioned above, perhaps a Lich empire to the south and a Dark Elf raiding colony to the north.
>>44224217
>Chained to the city gates an hour before dawn
Awsome, the city gates are stained white with all the ashes from previous executions.

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>>44157195

So is being burned by sunlight a permanent death or can they stll be resurrected by other means?

>>44226661
Beheading, burning, dismemberment, starvation and silver poisoning are all fatal to vampires.

>>44225727
To the south there are the summoner/wizard kings of Aksom/Axum/Aksum/whatever. Descended from the first man to bind demons to his will an a large scale they have used this power to spread their kingdom far and wide.

Not actually that bad of a place to live.

>>44227355
>To the south there are the summoner/wizard kings of Aksom/Axum/Aksum/whatever. Descended from the first man to bind demons to his will an a large scale they have used this power to spread their kingdom far and wide.
Sounds cool anon. These guys could see the vampires god-like proginitor as just a powerful demon and are seeking to bind it in the hopes that it'll give man control over the vampire race.

>>44227900
Their king claims to be from the same mortal line as the Progenitor. They acknowledge the divinity of their kings distant relative.

They don't accept that all of the Risen descend from Him. They see the vampires as a pre-existing predator breed with delusions.

>>44227969
>Their king claims to be from the same mortal line as the Progenitor.
Ah, now theres a story to be written and told here and a possible backstory for the proginitor, lots of drama to be seen.

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>>44156053
Vae victus.

>>44228882
Such a great game and story. A fun example to use as well.
>Kain: "...and that is why, when I must sacrifice one of my children to the Void, I can do so with a clear heart."
>Raziel: "Very poetic, Kain.

>>44228038
the kings of Abyssinia Claimed descent from the biblical king David by way of Solomon.

Jesus was of David's house.

>>44229338
>Abyssinia
Sounds fitting
"Abyssinia. The realm of blood and darkness".

>>44229076
I know right? I'm surprised Legacy of Kain isn't more /tg/ oriented.

>>44229076
On a related note, The team based death match based on this "Nosgoth" is quite enjoyable. I am currently running a small campaign using the classes and flavour.

>>44229830
Ah Nosgoth, I'm glad that they've finally done somthing with the setting and the vampire clans in general. Hopefully it'll lead to somthing more in the future.

>>44229710
>I'm surprised Legacy of Kain isn't more /tg/ oriented.
I believe there was once a thread that talked about setting up an rpg based off the setting and the vampire clans. But that was long time ago as far as I know.

>>44215513
>I cannot recommend Fall From Heaven II enough to anyone here who wants to play a vampire civ. You get to feed entire, well-fed cities to your vampires to give them more experience and, roleplaying-wise, adopting any religion but the Empyrean makes sense.

The Order and Runes of Kilmorph does not make much sense.

>>44167885
Only now I have realised that Christianity is a coven and Jesus is a reverse vampire

>>44156053
This is how I would run it.

>Cities would be either dome-shaped, enclosed environments or magically treated with some sort of Darkness spell.
>Humans would be kept not dissimilar from cattle; large pens housing them, separated by sex and harvested for their blood over their lifetimes. Exposure to sunlight would be important for their health, so the pens would have access to the outside, prison courtyard style.
>To feed the humans, crops would be grown normally, but tended by slave races by day and harvested at night.
>Underground superhighways would connect cities, which would also delve into the earth in layered cities.
>Large portions of the surface would be protected like National Parks to sustain the world's ecosystem to keep their human cattle alive.
>A small selection of specially chosen human subjects would be allowed to grow up in special communal houses, being taught the ins and outs of vampiric society before being turned to sustain the vampire population.

>>44230622
Forgot to add a few things.

I guess their society and class structure would be largely based on the vampire's personal power and clan/family influence, much like Lords of feudal times.

As for religion and the like? It would be just like any other society, with churches, shrines and the like, all organized and regulated by larger families, Vatican style.

>>44230622
>>44230701
Sounds good anon.
>Underground superhighways would connect cities, which would also delve into the earth in layered cities.
I think the underground structures should be somthing to put more focus on. On the surface of the cities are where all the mortals reside while underground are all the the vampires manors, with the more wealthy having spires that are entered from underground and stretch up into the surface to the very sky.

I'm imagining the Dark Blessing developing differently in each recipient.

Some just look like humans with fangs.

Some go full nosferatu.

>>44231301
>I'm imagining the Dark Blessing developing differently in each recipient.
Right, there can be diffrent breeds/clans/verities of vampires, maybe some posses powers or abilities unique to them, much like VtM or Nosgoth.
Diffrent types can also lead to military use.

>>44231615
Maybe 12 different breeds. One for each disciple.

The one that betrayed would be the nosferatu looking one. His sins made evident and his bloodline cursed. But also the fastest and most agile.

The first leader after the progenitor, the Peter type figure, looks the most human. No special powers beyond a silver tongue but that could be cultural.

That's all I've got.

The current Empress Iokaste was assumed to be of Peter's line. Then they saw her out in the sun with no protection bar her normal clothing and taking no harm.

No bloodline does that.

This has caused quite a lot of the elders to freak the fuck out.

She only got her job because she was too unknown for anybody to object to her and everyone saw her as better than a rival getting the throne.

Wait, so we're using or sticking to the Byzantine era idea?

>>44232198
Byzantine structure of empire but located in Switzerland + Carpathians it seems.

>>44232295
I see, so were using real history as a source for lore. Tricky for me to come up with, but others have posted great ideas so far, so it all seems good.

>>44232383
Real history exaggerated + myths and folklore and mashed around till it makes something usable.

>>44230498
Backwards - both are reverse/parody-Christianity. That's how they were deliberately portrayed to freak people out.

>>44228882
>Vae victus.
For the sake of it and to be a reference of the Legacy of Kain series. There needs to be an order of vampiric warriors/knights with this as their warcry.

VtM had these vampiric servants called Ghouls that were created by feeding a normal human the blood of a vampire. Ghouls were usually stronger, were able to slowly learn vampiric powers, and the vampire blood also made them age slowly but if they didn't get their fix in a months time then they'd age rapidly.
Now I'm thinking of a similar thing except it'll be a weaker vampire referred to as a "Thin-Blood." Introducing the small perks to being a Thin-Blood can be a vampire sire's way of training and getting his soon to be vampire child use to being an immortal creature of the night. Or, for a more military use, this can be done to the vampires mortal soldiers so that they'd be much stronger, faster, and responsive compared to the opposing soldiers. This can be reserved for the mortal veterans, that have already proven their skill and prowess, as a sort of promotion and an introduction as vampires if they'd earn the chance to become one.

>>44222590
>tiefling Ottoman Turks
Awsome.
With or against demons?

So ultimately, is this a unified empireor are there other vamp civs as well?

Is the proginitor the only god or are there multiple? Though I wonder how many there could be anyway.

So do the vampires use human or undead labor?

http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Vryloka
Something to possibly work with as a base for other vampires if your looking for something out of the usual and common stock.