>>34633813 Personally, I view noblebrite as more useful for contrast. Like... When you have legitimately good people and earnest prosperity to compare it to, the badguys work better. Grimdark just oversaturates everything with shit, and while the truly "good guys" do shine brighter, most grimdark is just... Shit versus different shit.
>>34633813 I always viewed noblebright to be the stereotypical one-person-is-super anime thing, where the heros make everything right, there's not always good, like in grimdark it's not always sucky, but it's just enough to keep you interested.
>>34633889 I didn't say it was shit. Or rather I did, which was my bad. What I mean is a lot of grimdark seems saturated with "evil versus evil" which sort of kills it for me. I meant shit like shitty people, not as in poor writing.
like D&D alignment, these categories aren't absolute. no "noblebright" setting is going to be absolutely perfect, in the same way an LG character isn't going to be a flawless saint.
you might have a good place where problems still exist and need to be dealt with, or where the goodness of the world is being threatened, or where the story revolves around exploration, discovery or otherwise exists on a personal level.
Standard good vs evil is virtue vs vice: honor against cruelty, courage vs cowardice, patience vs wrathfulness, etc.
grimdark gives evil vs slightly less evil. Wrath vs depravity.
Noblebright is virtue against virtue. Virtues conflict all the time. Honor vs Generosity. Diligence vs Freedom. Duty vs Justice. Real, meaningful conflicts can arise out of these, and just because ultimately everyone is decenthearted and wants what is best doesn't mean everything is perfect and everyone will work together.
>>34634576 Personally I see it as the struggle against overwhelming odds, with the hope of victory.
Extinction is approaching, fight it.
There is hope, there is the chance of victory, as I GM it it's the tale of terrible foes and long odds, but also the tale of the brave ones who will rise up, stare into the yawning abyss, and fight back.
Different anon, but seriously you should look at the name. Eclipse Phase... as in when a cell is infected with a virus but is not symptomatic....Yet.
Transhumanity is utterly unchained and has the gates. They are the infection, and they have spread to dozens if not hundreds of worlds within a few very short years. The galaxy is not symptomatic yet, but is about to undergo a golden age of unprecedented success. The TITANs left for what the fuck ever, the Prometheans stayed and vainly try to pull back on the reins. Transhumanity is literally going and doing whatever they want. The Factors are frightened of humanity because of this and are SOL on stopping us. We've already won, Transhumanity has spread so far and wide that removing it is basically impossible. The hypercorps don't own all the gates and Transhumans looking for opportunity are going where they please. In ten years there will be so many resources and manufacturing capabilities to anyone in the gate network that the corps will have literally no choice but to fall under the heels of the anarchists....If the hypercorps are stupid enough to piss them off. Protip...they already have.
To me noblebright is not just the conceptual virtue vs virtue aspect of the setting, but the aesthetic. A world worth saving, a people worth loving. I don't quite know how to put it, but I get this deep sense of longing whenever I think about the things presented. I want to be there, I want to see the green hills laced with ivory stonework and sail sea's more blue than the sky while fighting arm in arm with time-weathered companions I know will always be there for me. I don't think it's so much a desire to be in a 'perfect' world, but rather a world where wanderlust and kinship is rewarded at every turn.
>>34636951 I kinda get you. I personally enjoy noblebright because the people who shit all over everyone else are all the more imperative and interesting because it's so rare and so in contrast to the prosperity of other parts of the setting. Slaughtering peasants sort of loses it's shock factor when every township seems to have an office branch of the Administrative Bureau of Peasant Slaughter
The ETI infected TH as soon as it found the Titans with the extinction disease. Transhumanity, when it comes to the ETI tech and the gates are toddlers playing with daddy's "Build a nuclear warhead in your back yard in two easy steps" kit. Sorry. I just can't see the setting as anything anywhere near hopeful. Your mileage, obviously, may vary.
>>34637872 Wait what? Did you SEE Star Wars? Really? Did you even watch it? Luke succeeds with flying fucking colors. The only one that ended on a down note was Empire Strikes Back and that's because it was the second in a trilogy.
>>34634457 whenever I see this pic I always get the impression that the dude with the bowls has a thing for the red head but is too shy to do anything and the two guys on the left are trying to make it happen.
>>34634457 Looking at this image made me suddenly REALLY want full-immersion VR to be a thing. I mean, that's not a new desire for me, but for some reason looking at that image made all that want come into focus all at once.
Closest thing we got to true VR right now is getting into a good book. Acceptable, but not nearly good enough.
>>34634457 >Tfw you used to have friends like this >tfw you used go camping and adventuring for the hell of it >days at a time just roaming the fields and forests where we lived >tfw you slowly tore away from them for pussy. >tfw you'll never get them back
>>34637684 Vastly superior does not mean any thing. If the TITANS wanted to wipe out humanity they had their chance and instead flew away into parts unknown to do whatever. The Factors are aliens acting in alien ways. Extinction disease? lol nope. Let's take synthmorphs and cortical stacks off the table for a moment. Every person in the gatecrashing program has their morph analyzed down to the cellular level, anything weird and morph is destroyed. Now, let's talk about synthmorphs. they never Age, never die, and when shit wears out or you want something else, switch, oh and they are cheap. The need for skilled labor is increasing with colonization. The quest for raw materials and that full blown cornucopia machines can make literally anything from elements means there is nothing out there unbeatable. Resleeving at huge levels of the dead for colonization is within five years. Transhumanity has already won, the genie is out of the bottle.
oh, and just because you don't know how something works doesn't mean you can't be its master. Magnetic compasses were in widespread use 1000 years before science could explain how they worked, why they worked, and why sometimes they didn't. It is literally exactly the same thing with the pandora gates... Sometimes the gates don't work, but only in less than .5% of the cases. Sometimes coordinates disappear, the network is obviously mutable and works because it works. Sailors, gatecrashers, colonists, are all pushing outward and away in search of whatever they hope to find, just as European or Polynesian colonists did and each passing day more worlds are discovered, more resources and humanity can cherry pick.
Transhumanity has already won, there is not a single calamity that can wipe out the entirety of the species in a short enough time period to really matter. The future for humanity is brighter than it was even five years previous. Mileage does vary but pay attention at least to how good it really is to be a transhuman.
>>34638945 No, that's sort of a shitty way of describing it. Basically, you have a setting that is probably not as bad a place to live in as say, the Song of Ice and Fire universe, or 40k, and in fact might actually be pleasant, but the general tone and the people filling that setting are not the best things in the world. This is the home of background conspiracies, post-cyberpunk, and idyllic paradises that are flawed in some way.
so if I'm getting this right, Noblebright is any setting that has: >places worth exploring >companions worth protecting >people worth saving >causes worth fighting for >and a positive win/loss ratio of good vs evil.
The heroes fail to save the worldloads of people die and it all turns into some crapsack post-apocalyptic setting. But this doesn't stop the survivors from picking their shit up and doing what needs to be done in the end.
>>34642458 >>34642762 This is the idea behind one of the settings I'm working on. The world is dangerous, but it's also strange, beautiful, awesome, and full of folks worth meeting. Never mind saving the world. World's fine. Let's go see what's behind that mountain!
Would Cucumber Quest be considered Grimbright? The world is consistently cute, colorful, and optimistic (the sun has a face and says "gee willickers!") but the heroes and villains are constantly presented with the futility of their quests and the heroes are regularly outclassed completely.
>>34643338 Dunno, I haven't played it. But I think a lot of it has to do with presentation. Like, you can have a post-apocalyptic setting where humanity is slowly meeting its end, and still have the setting be noblebright.
>>34635796 >The Factors are frightened of humanity because of this and are SOL on stopping us.
there's no evidence of that, the factors don't seem particularly impressed by transhumanity. the reason they've warned against using AIs or the gates is probably because this will lead to the ETI getting involved (they've already intervened once in similar circumstances), and given the ETI killed the vast bulk of transhumanity barely lifting a finger, if they actually arrive in person then it will make the fall look like a picnic.
Noblebright, to me, is a setting where things are inherently good. Bad guys are either mindless monsters (giant spiders, dinosaurs, robots) that are evil by nature or have noble goals which through desperation or misjudgment produce evil means. Every enemy is worth weeping for or can be turned to the path of good. Golden cities, kindly wizards, pure maidens, brave knights, merciful emperors, fisher kings and high adventure are the order of the day.
>>34643516 >Final Fantasy XII When you think about it, it's surprisingly (and refreshingly) bright and lacking in grimness, considering the themes and plot threads. I mean, half the story is about a widowed princess, fugitive in her own country, haunted by the specter of her late husband, obsessively searching for WMDs to fight back against the empire that assassinated her father, killed her loving spouse, stole her country, etc. There's mass murder, crimes against humanity, attempts at genocide, successful fratricide, and more. It even has a villain who despite conquering two countries, nuking one of them, plans to conquer the rest of the known world, is already responsible for thousands of deaths even before the game has started – and despite it all he successfully comes off as morally ambiguous without it seeming contrived or it making the heroes look bad. I really think it's one of the better examples of noblebright I know of in RPGs.
Here's how I interpret the noble/grim/bright/dark 3x3.
Noble/Neutral/Grim- Overall theme of the setting is hopeful/Overall theme does not lean either way/Overall theme is pessimistic
Bright/Neutral/Dark- "Bright" aesthetics and atmosphere/Neutral aesthetics and atmosphere/"Dark" aesthetics and atmosphere.
Noble Bright- Heroes vanquishing evil in an uplifting setting like a lot of the pics in this thread. Noble Dark- Heroes struggling and ultimately prevailing against unspeakable darkness, their actions changing the world from decay and misery to one of hope. Grim Bright- A false utopia propped up by dystopian means. Any victories the heroes win will be limited to self-preservation. They are powerless to make a real change.
You literally just cited why the Factors are afraid. Transhumanity is already like HIV it has mastered diversification and can live in a star or in a server under the stairs and change at will. This makes transhumanity VERY hard to pin down in a definable way, and combined with that we are spreading like cancer all over the galaxy, We've won. If the factors are simply stupid shit heads jogging our elbow. If the ETI chooses to intervene it will be for reasons completely beyond comprehension because alien minds are alien. Where exactly would the ETI arrive? one of the dozens, soon to be thousands of far flung colonies? Oh nose... Unless it killed everyone all at once everywhere in the galaxy, we still win.
The ETI "killed" a large portion because humanity was unaware that something like Exsurgent virus existed. Kinda like how the black plague or influenza annihilated cities back in the day... but humanity still survived and learned around similar threats.
I propose to you why did the TITANS not wipe out humanity completely if that was the purpose of being infected by the Exsurgent virus? They had the chance and the means. This means that either the ETI is a RETARDED evolutionary despotic tyranny or is not all that interested in destruction of other races, or is simply indifferent. All are winrar for transhumanity.
It could be that the TITANS actually did Transhumanity a huge favor and purposefully destroyed Earth to force us into the stars in some kind of twisted "this is going to hurt me more than you". This is a direct counter to slow ass Bracewell probes. They spread us to the wind, and we've spread so far and wide that we can't be stopped. Winrar again.
Or it could be both... Double winrar
In any event Transhumanity has won the war the second they stepped foot on Ascension.
There's a /tg/ custom chapter called the Conservators who are pretty noblebright.
They're an understrength, very relaxed chapter who have a strong knightly feel to them, view protecting and supporting the common man as their highest calling, and are generally just very nice to be around.
They live with the normal humans in the medieval worlds they protect, in their little corner of space it's considered perfectly normal to go into a tavern and have your drinks brought to you by the space marine who owns the place.
>>34638945 Actually I could totally see that for a Grimbright setting. Roaring 20s but you're a hobo...
But for reals, something like Star Wars original trilogy is an example of a Grimbright setting, particularly when you get into the expanded universe emprahsplainin' where he saw the Yuuzhan Vong coming and had prepared humanity's butthole, and then the Rebels ruined everything (...forever).
>>34646988 I don't know, it's an aesthetic thing for me. I don't want to see this shit. I want to see fantastical places inhabited by fantastical people. I want to see impossible architecture in an impossible world.
When I imagine a noblebright setting, the first thing I see is verdant green, rolling planes. Friendship and comraderie are themes. There are wonders the like this world has never seen. Reaching the crest of a hill you can see the beautiful castle and city in the distance, the area around it warm and inviting.
Noblebright, to me, is adventure. Although our heroes may be tested mightily, the tone is still light. There might be an evil army with its slave legions, but there is also the army of good, knights in resplendent in their armor astride beautiful white horses.
It is a place of wonder and adventure, and I love it.
Damn. First a feels thread makes me cry with that comic of the Eldar girl sending a letter to the emperor, and now this thread comes celebrating the wonders of everything noblebright with a fuckton of awesome art.
>>34651772 >You literally just cited why the Factors are afraid.
they're not "afraid" because they're not the ones in risk of being assfucked. they seem more like a disinterested stranger watching a child playing with an electrical socket. he feels obligated to warn the child, but he's not the one about to be electrocuted.
>Where exactly would the ETI arrive? one of the dozens, soon to be thousands of far flung colonies?
anywhere they like. you think they don't know how to use the gates? shit dude, they probably built them.
>The ETI "killed" a large portion because humanity was unaware that something like Exsurgent virus existed.
transhumanity is still terrified of just the pockets of remaining TITAN activity, and those aren't even an active threat.
>This means that either the ETI is a RETARDED evolutionary despotic tyranny or is not all that interested in destruction of other races, or is simply indifferent.
or the purpose of the exsurgent virus was to throw a wrench in the unfolding singularity, which it did. the ETI don't need to get involved again unless transhumanity continues to moves toward that aim, which they are. and when that happens it's time for transhumanity to pull out the nanolube because they're about to get fucked all over again.
>>34658555 >they're not "afraid" because they're not the ones in risk of being assfucked. they seem more like a disinterested stranger watching a child playing with an electrical socket. he feels obligated to warn the child, but he's not the one about to be electrocuted.
Then why warn humanity? they have offered no real technological advances and their altruistic advice really isn't if they are representative of several alien cultures. They have as much to lose by being in contact with Transhumanity if the ETI rolls into the solar system.
>anywhere they like. you think they don't know how to use the gates? shit dude, they probably built them. Then why have Bracewell probes? that is redundant and shows that they DID NOT build them or the virus would of originated there.
>transhumanity is still terrified of just the pockets of remaining TITAN activity, and those aren't even an active threat. People in North America are still afraid of Ebola despite it being more likely they get struck by lightning standing next to a left handed virgin on Ash Wednesday.
>or the purpose of the exsurgent virus was to throw a wrench in the unfolding singularity, which it did. the ETI don't need to get involved again unless transhumanity continues to moves toward that aim, which they are. and when that happens it's time for transhumanity to pull out the nanolube because they're about to get fucked all over again.
Then why did they half ass it? They are indifferent because the resources spent to squish transhumanity would be trivial and would of been deployed first.
Some noblebright setting should offer almost endless supplys, like that even in winter you'll able to find bushes with juicy, bloated, purple-blue fruits. Also included should be profuse hospitality and events of excessive story-telling.
>corrupt government that blows entire islands out of existance for daring to mention the words "Void Century" >Pirates run rampant everywhere, at any point one might show up and slaughter your entire village >Because of said corrupt government anyone attempting to help is more at risk of being imprisoned than actually getting shit done
Just because Luffy and Co. lead a relatively jolly life (actually no they don't, they all have depressing backstories aside from Ussop really) doesn't make the setting Noblebright.
>>34633407 If I remember correctly he had a massive boner for her but knew he couldn't get her.That with being a massive fucking coward so he wouldn't risk his life led him to kill her because he was afraid she'd tell everyone that he didn't go with them.
>>34634457 >tfw you used to see the world and life in general like this >tfw years of suffering at the hands of bullies >tfw years away fighting a war >tfw war is our answer >tfw violence is our path >tfw knowing you will never again see a world of hope and adventure >tfw secretly hating yourself for what you've allowed yourself to become
>>34670847 They see the world and its wonders. Maybe they conquer evil along the way, but if they do, morality is black and white, the good always triumphs and everyone lives happily ever after. Until the next campaign, anyways.
Noblebright settings are all about HIGH ADVENTUUUURE Basically this>>34635350
>>34670695 Harry Potter gets more Noble Dark once you get past the third book.
Thank you all for this thread. I've doused myself in Grimdark for so long now, and all this now is such a relief. I do like grimdark, but you often forget what the light looks like, and you grow used to the dark. And then when you see the light again, you remember how dark the darkness really is.
>>34672206 You are welcome, brother. Even when in the midst of darkness, we must remember the light. All we need do is remember that it is for the light that we go into the darkness and the darkness shall not conquer us.
>>34677170 Neutralbright I think. The world is kind, but your actions basically don't matter. Even if you're a "PC," the machines could have solved all the problems you solve already, they just let you do it because you'll have more fun that way. So in a sense, your actions aren't meaningful.
So, noble-vs-grim and bright-vs-dark? Let's see if I have this right.
Noble/Grim refers to the average morality of the setting. >Noble People are essentially good. Not everyone everywhere, but taken as a whole, people are more good than bad. You can generally expect help from those who are able and the average deal between people is fair and honest. Again, not everyone everywhere at all times, but on average.
>Grim People are essentially bad. Whether they're warlike, thieving, self-serving, ambitious or so on, the average person is in it for themselves and would rather hurt you than help you. There may be exceptions, but exceptions come off as idealistic and naiive. Deals have to be rigorously enforced to prevent being unfair or dishonest.
Bright/dark refers to the aesthetic of the setting, including groups larger than individual NPCs: >Bright The world is essentially good. Things are usually pretty, orderly, and well-kept. Most people live a comfortable lifestyle. Governments and companies are usually well-meaning and responsible institutions. War, when it happens over idealistic motives or heartfelt beliefs, is a meeting on the field of honor.. >Dark The world is essentially bad. Things are usually run-down, decaying, and crappy. Most people struggle to get by from day to day. Governments and companies are usually corrupt and evil institutions. War, when it happens for profit or ambition, is usually a terrible affair in which atrocities are committed and civilians are killed.
>>34677474 Essentially. Noble/Grim describes the players and Bright/Dark describes the setting; other than that I'd say the words can be connoted however you like. So while 'noble' and 'bright' are usually going to mean positive things, they might associate more strongly to different positive things from game to game.
For myself, I'd label the axes: >Noble You're awesome and you know it. Clap your hands. >Grim You're a mean ol' sunuvabitch, ain'tcha. >Bright Tomorrow will be even more wonderful than today. >Dark The world is a spiral of hurt.
>>34634457 >Noblebright is virtue against virtue. Virtues conflict all the time. Honor vs Generosity. Diligence vs Freedom. Duty vs Justice. Real, meaningful conflicts can arise out of these, and just because ultimately everyone is decenthearted and wants what is best doesn't mean everything is perfect and everyone will work together. That's not true at all. Noblebright is your classic good vs. evil. The world and its people are basically good, and valiant heroes must defend it against unambiguous evil.
What you're describing is nobledark - the people of the world and the heroes are generally sympathetic and yet they still cause conflict and chaos. It's very gray-vs-grey where both sides have legitimate points and can be interpreted sympathetically.
>>34677727 I thought nobledark most fit "never lose hope" type stories, where the world is cruel but you can improve it if you try. A good example would be, hmm, Sora no Woto I guess. Or Dragon Age if you play it heroically.
>>34683417 Different franchise. Old Trek is stagnating a bit with STO and occasional rumors of TV series. Also, Next Gen era is more noblebright than, TOS era which was more.. nobleneutral-neutralbright. New Trek is a separate setting borrowing material from the Old Trek canon. Though, New Trek 2 ended way more positively than Old Trek II. WAY.. actually, pretty firmly in Noblebright territory now that I think about it.
>>34642921 This. Seeing as the embodiment of all magic, Kefka, (I know it's a billion years old, but it's still worth a playthrough) probably only loses because he's done LITERALLY everything he can think of to break the heroes and they just won't break, I can definitely see the case that the final boss gives up and commits suicide. While dark in tone, that's pretty fucking bright in flavor. The only way it would be brighter is if he turned around and started helping them, but eh.
Also, all the main characters fail at important points. Except Gogo, who has barely any plot. And maybe Umaro.
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