>>33981665 Worst food combatant in the galaxy: Worf always achieves a victory in physical confrontation with any character lacking an above average physical trait, and always incurs a defeat in physical confrontation with any character in possession of an above average physical trait.
Get shot down: Captain and bridge crew receive a moral high ground bonus whenever Worf's recommendations are discarded out of hand.
>>33982183 How does this work? I mean how does ... If you fail at something, how does it directly help anyone? How does it help in Like if I fuck up at something then why does the guy next to me suddently get strength out of no-where and shit how does it WORK
You can't transfer your success to someone else with the drawback of fucking up can you?
>>33982664 It's just going by how much Worf gets played in the show but I would totally play it as an actual class.
It's easy enough to fluff, I think. Bards themselves are pretty nonsensical and require you to accept magic morale powers. So you could have them coming from failure, like you're some kind of bad luck magnet who absorbs the bad luck in the area, or you could just fluff it as a normal Bard with Perform (Pratfall).
It would be great, no pressure. Every excuse to use all the stupid weapons and tactics you've ever imagined. If they work, incredible. If they don't, at least everyone else has a shot.
>>33982713 >>33982715 >you're some kind of bad luck magnet who absorbs the bad luck in the area >Perform(failure): You excel at outright failure to such a degree that it brightens spirits and raises morale.
-claims to excel at martial arts but often loses -claims to have participated in great battles but is only ever seen fighting holograms -obsessed with glorious klingon imperial culture -expert in the use of the klingon katana -"can't talk to women" -no sense of humor -constantly peppers his normal speech with unintelligible klingon phrases and references to obscure klingon culture -massive superiority complex
>>33982715 >Perform(failure): You excel at outright failure to such a degree that it brightens spirits and raises morale. If you excel at failure, then your goal would obviously be to fail If it's your goal to fail, and you succeed, do you fail or succeed? What if combat starts and Worf just proceeds to paradox the whole universe to oblivion on the first turn?
>>33983051 Doesn't Worf become the Klingon emperor at some point? So every time you remember beating up some guy that wrecked Worf you're thinking 'wow I am more of a badass than the Klingon emperor, Klingons ain't shit'.
>>33982664 In GURPS: Ridiculous Luck (Wishing Only, +0%; Combat only, -20%; Must fail a roll prior to using, -20%) . This lets you reroll a teammate's roll every 10 minutes of game play provided you fuck up first.
>>33983051 I don't know why but everything makes so much fucking sense at this point I'm trying to prove you wrong and I CAN'T, I just can't come up with anything agaisn't that You just proved that people giving performances in which they fuck up can boost other's morality I fucking tried to stop this from happening I fucking tried
Troi's mother was entirely insufferable in her 1st season appearance (as was everyone), then a surprisingly interesting if somewhat of a joke character later on. And still better than Troi.
>>33983071 For about 10 seconds, if that. Well, high chancellor anyway after shanking Gowron in an honourable duel. And later made the Federation Ambassador. Did take a lead role in getting an actual emperor appointed as a figurehead to inspire though. And making 2 high chancellors in a row with Gowron and Martok. For a figure outside the empire of middling rank (not even with his own ship) and actively shunned by it for much of the time he sure did have a lot of influence in trying to fix the empire.
Worf did really well in DS9, pretty much entirely forgetting his reputation from early TNG and having a ton of character expansion and growth around his weird outsider ideal of Klingons, continually having his ideals confronted by the reality of Klingons yet still holding true to them.
>>33983474 His ideals are basically all about the whole Kirk era klingons. They lie, they backstab, and they are GOOD at it. Also EVERYTHING that gives you victory is honorable after you won. They were basically cunning, stealthy and dangerous soviets in space. And they also glorified themselves and kept lying through their teeth about an "Honor Code" and stuff.
Now, compare that to TNG Era klingons. At first they were bearable, then quickly devolved into MUH HONOR and MUH Battle skills. I felt like they became a sort of "People so weak and incompetent they become Comic relief but arent actually funny". They also lied through their teeth about being sklled, dangerous and cunning warriors with an honor code. But they weren't. They were just bad thugs.
Now, the Ferengi in DS9 were pure comic relief and achieved maximum lulz potential.
So basically Worf idealized the whole "Soviets in SPESS" Ideal of the Kirk era but constantly encountered the "You dun goofed" Klingons of his time and reality.
And he was rather competend and good, he just got to go melee against the bad guy of the week to show how tough that bad guy was.
He was a red shirt sacrifice that didn't get killed, only knocked around and defeated. The worf effect!
>>33984813 >His ideals are basically all about the whole Kirk era klingons. They lie, they backstab, and they are GOOD at it. Also EVERYTHING that gives you victory is honorable after you won. They were basically cunning, stealthy and dangerous soviets in space. And they also glorified themselves and kept lying through their teeth about an "Honor Code" and stuff. The Morat in Infinity are basically Klingon clones, at least of this kind of Klingon.
Popping in to point out that he's canonically the greatest bat'leth combatant in the Star Trek universe, as well as probably the mek'leth and other Klingon melee weapons. Problem being that he's basically canonically the highest level fighter in a universe full of wizards.
>>33982183 Also sings Klingon opera, confirmed for bard. Also instructs and inspires a Romulan prison full of Klingons to return to their roots, confirmed for bard. Sticks his Bat'leth in K'Ehleyr then snatches Deanna Troi out from under Riker's beard, confirmed for bard.
Masquerades as a fighter so he can go in alone, get beaten, and then inspire those around him to band together intelligently to accomplish what he couldn't by himself.
"So what if i get beaten up. If it allows everyone else to carry the day then it is worth it. Only a fool believes there is dishonor in fighting and being defeated. Only when you refuse to get up and continue to fight are you truly defeated. Only then do you lose your Honor."
"And to this very day, no man, borg, godlike Q, or alien has defeated me, although the entire universe tried."
And let us not forget: When he was horribly crippled and rendered unable to move his legs he at first wanted his 10 year old son to kill him, as klingon honor demands that a cripple cannot fight and only a death in a ritual killing performed by a son can redeem his honor. He later gets his head around the fact that this is bullshit, undergoes complete spine removal surgery, gets a new spine, dies for several hours, and then comes back to life ALL ON HIS OWN. After that he begins the painful process of rehab, and endures the shame and dishonor that he feels comes with it. He even allows his son to help him in the therapy. This whole thing took a maassive feat of willpower as he overcame EVERYTHING he believed to be sacred when it turned out to be impractical.
>>33986119 Well, Worf is the Perfect Klingon by virtue of growing up in the Federation and taking all that Klingon bullshit at face value. He's like those Muslims who live in the West and are more Islamic than Osama, except that he takes the values of the society he lives in to heart.
Meanwhile, Klingons in the Empire know it's all about backstabbing and scheming from day one.
Worf was called home to Chronos once. He was to be put on trial. He was accused of that a) his father sold out an outpost to the romulans and made a klingon pearl harbor posible and b) he had to carry the dishonor for that, as klingon honor demandded and c) was a total dishonorable douchenozzle for NOT joining the glorious klingon navy, and instead joining the starfleet pansies (klingon point of view, not mine)
Picard was with him as a kind of "the captain of the accused may stand by his side to testify to his HONOR and COURAGE deal"
Worf fought of an assasination attempt against 3 klingons with knives while he was unarmed. Then he found out that his father was NOT responsible for selling out his entire klingon starbase and several ships to the romulans which resulted in a pearl harbor for the klingons. This dishonored him and his entire family name forever.
It was actually another man of another family. The son of that man was one of his accusers too. There was irrefutible evidence that proved that fact.
HOWEVER if that evidence were brought forth, Worf gets clear, but the other guy and his ENTIRE FAMILY get dishonoruburud' and sharmefur dispray'd . Problem is: That family is big, wealthy and is one of the biggest contributors to the overall klingon war navy. Shaming that family would entail a massive loss of power for the entire klingon empire as well as a delicious weakness and opening for any foreign power to attack and score the klingon empire for massive damage.
So what did Worf do? He bitchslapped that guys son and told him he was dishonorable. Then he told his lawyer dude to hide the evidence. He decided to take the dishonor for the good of the entire klingon empire, and only bring it out later when the empire was strong enough to endure such an event.
So he went into the circle of shame, turned to each of the high counselors in turn, took their swears of dishonor and spit in the face, and stoically wlaked out.
So that is what Worf did. He did it for the empire he loved. For the ideals he held high, as he believed any klingon should. He stood up to what the klingons claim makes them klingons. He is the only one who stands up to those ideals while all the other klingons are basically various shades of grey on the "immoral - dishoonorable - cowardly - asshole - egoist" scale.
He stood up for the ideals of his empire, knowing fully well that it was corrupt, rotten to the core and about to tear itself apart from internal greed, noblemens machinations and avarice. He did it to protect his beloved empire and all klingons AND his ideals from dangerous enemies, like the romulans.
He did his duty and honorable accepted total dishonor, for all his children generations to come, to save the hypocrite empire that doesn't hold a candle to its own ideals. The same empire that renounces him his klingonhood and literally turns its back to him (via the counselors during their ritual of shaming).
He, the outcast, the outside, the one who is eternally laughed at behind his back. He took it like a man, like a champ, like a true Klingon.
He took it like only Worf can take it. He literally "failed" his personal honor to save entire empire, so if you wanna call him an inverse bard of failure, you may be correct. That should tell you how much of a loyal badass he is.
In a certain way, Worf should be an example to as all. He is one of the most underrated and unappreciated characters of all Star Trek in my oppinion.
>>33988689 >He is one of the most underrated and unappreciated characters
I'd nominate Ezri Dax for that honour, too. She gets a lot of flak for being a bit of a failure, after honorubru Jadzia bit the dust, but that was the point of her character. And in, what, two seasons they had to develop a new character from the ground up, and I think they did it well.
DS9 started out with a bunch of rejects stuck on a shitty station climbing up to one of the most respected crews in the Federation, and being the lynchpin in a large war. Ezri started out in a way most characters had, and the contrast was pretty good.
She's not the best character. No character with that amount of screentime can be. But she's definitely underrated and unappreciated.
+2 strength, +2 constitution, -2 wisdom or intelligence, -2 charisma. Klingons are strong, hardy beings. But they can't relate to non-klingons very well and while klingons have had their share of geniuses and great philosophers, they never are both at once owing to the klingon sociatal inclination to put brawn over brains. Klingon base land speed is 30 ft Klingon Blood Rage(Ex): Klingons can fly into a rage once per encounter for 4 rounds. This rage causes -2 AC +4 to strength and -2 to wisdom, intelligence and charisma. +2 intimidate. Klingons regularly subject themselves to large amounts of pain. And are as such experts at torture. +2 survival: Klingons are a survivalist culture and train from birth in survival. -2 hide and move silently: Klingons view such tactics as cowardly Spellcraft, Psicraft, and Concentration are not class skills for Klingons unless they spend 4 skill points to permanantly make them class skills. This must be paid for each skill to be made a class skill, and the Klingon must have at least 2 levels in a class including it as a class skill. Klingons begin with proficiencies with Bat'leth and with light armor. Pounce: Klingons can make a full attack as part of a charge. This is due to their tendancy to charge into battle with reckless abandon. Endurance: Klingons have an almost unnatural stamina. Automatic Languages: Klingon'hol. Bonus Languages: Common, Gnomish, Orcish, Giant. Favored Class: Fighter. Level Adjustment: +1.
>>33989333 Ezri was also the one that finally pointed out to Worf that the Empire was a big crock of shit and that they were as much scheming backstabbers as the Romulans they hated. Then Worf went and killed Gowron.
Before that, everyone just kind of nodded and rolled their eyes whenever Worf went on about the glories of the Klingon honor.
>>33997799 Those were special winter event items, so they're just fun little gimmicks instead of them being serious weapons. They actually suck too, so they're definitely not "xXx ZOMG SUPER LIGHTSABER BAT'LETH HXC 420 xXx"
>>33999733 The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine and Voyager all form their own timeline, with Voyager starting right after TNG ends and DS9 running concurrently with the other two starting midway through TNG Season 6. Although the three are mostly self-contained, it doesn't hurt to watch them in order since they occasionally reference people and events from previous series. You might as well watch the three in broadcast order starting with TNG, though be aware that the first season or two of TNG is more of the same as TOS due to the series taking a bit to find its footing. It gets better around season 3 though.
Next Generation might be better then. Though like most other Star Treks, it takes it a couple seasons to hit its stride and find its own way (it was trying a bit TOO hard to be TOS 2.0 in the first season).
If you prefer your TV series to have more long-reaching continuity/plots as opposed to episodic, you could try DS9, you won't miss too much by having not seen TNG before.
That said, while I perfectly understand TOS (my favorite personally) not being everyone's cup of tea, you should at least give some of the "best" episode a try (EG: Balance of Terror, Doomsday Machine, City on the Edge of Forever, a few others).
If its the visuals turning you off, you could look up the Remastered version which replaces and redoes much of the special effects with modern techniques (nothing can be done for the 60s sci-fi aesthetic though, for better or worse).
A lot of people don't really like Voyager because of various reasons (I'm not a big fan of it either) and Enterprise took a while to reach its stride (and only reached it just in time to get cancelled).
DS9 is good, but it quickly turns into a drama much unlike the Treks that came before and frequently is a bit "darker" in its themes than the more optimistic TNG/TOS.
>>33999829 Nah. I'm just fucking with you. I haven't watched DS9 yet, but I have zero interest in either Enterprise or Voyager.
Be warned, The Next Generation is so close to being great while missing the mark entirely. All of the characters have the same acting quirks. All of them. Worf, as this thread demonstrates, is criminally misused. Data is an uppity bitch. I really didn't like any of the characters and the acting/directing had a big part to do with that. I mean, they weren't really characters either. I'd have no idea how to describe someone like Riker. Geordie is sort of a beta, but again I there's nothing else really to him.
I thought TOS had the better characters, although they were a bit more cliche. They were definitely more fun.
>>33999829 The rest is pretty hit and miss. When Deep Space Nine worked, it was fantastic. But there was a lot of shit to wade through to get to those good parts. Same with Voyager, though Voyager was somewhat more consistent at the price of not having the really good peaks like DS9 did.
>>33999829 DS9 is great except when it isn't, then it's awful. Voyager ranges from mediocre to bad, mainly because of inconsistent writing. The writers just really couldn't decide where they were going and characters swung around in a haphazard way. Enterprise was an interesting concept that came out of the gate with a strong pilot, then fell flat on its face and didn't really pick itself up until right before it got cancelled.
>>33999829 The thing with Star Trek is that it's encompassed so many different subgenres, time periods, ideas and aesthetics over six TV series, 12 movies and god knows how many licensed games, comics, books and so on that the only thing you can get any two Trekkies to agree on is that the JJ movies suck. Just watch what you think interests you because that's the only real way to know for sure.
>>33999733 The 80's movies with the original cast. Awesome stuff.
All of the are good, but the first movie is kind of boring, but if you like boring movies, you might like it. The 5th one is widely hated, but whatever, it isn't that bad, it is still better than every Next Gen movie and the two recent ones.
The first movie always felt to me like a 2nd Series TV Pilot that got hastily rewritten into a movie-length feature, mostly by adding in exceptionally long winded, dialogue-less visual sequences and laboriously drawn out closeups of the crew reaction to every last thing they see.
>>34000514 They aren't very good? And, if you take out First Contact, you could even say they aren't good at all?
The original movies are good because they are about the characters from the TV show, the expand on them, flesh them out, and wrap up their story. Its great. The Next Movies don't do that at all, because they were written by hacks.
Though I've always liked to think that was Starfleet taking this long-lost "hero" and putting her on the short leash of a desk job as far from a captain's chair as they can put her without a public backlash.
>>34000514 They throw all established characterization out of the window in favor of pidgeonholing the characters into generic action movies where anyone who isn't Picard or Data is a glorified extra.
The only good movie is First Contact because it a) had a budget, b) was filmed when the actors still gave a shit, and c) had no William Shatner, but even First Contact wasn't well-written at all. It was basically a JJTrek movie with the original cast and fewer lensflares.
>>34000795 >they were modeled on the japs You're correct. After all, when they made an entire movie as an analogue to the ending of the Cold War, including clear parallels to Chernobyl, the implosion of the Russian economy, Siberian gulags, and the August Putsch, it was about Romulans.
>>34000890 the whole being devious at first with the weird little whiskers and then being honor-bound swordfighers means they were japs. it was mentioned in interviews. but you keep living in the clouds if you want
>>34000927 The appearance was based on popular depiction of Genghis Khan-era Mongolians (source: "Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages") but in terms of storyline they were conceived as primarily a Soviet analogue (source: Gene Coon in "Star Trek: The Original Series 365") with vaguer references to totalitarian governments as a whole (source: D.C. Fortuna in "Starfleet Access, TOS Season 1 Blu-ray").
>>33984813 >He was a red shirt sacrifice that didn't get killed, only knocked around and defeated. The worf effect!
Holy fuck. That's it. Worf is an immortal redshirt.
When I go back and think about it, if an ordinary security guy in TNG received anything like the pounding Worf did, they'd die every single time. Worf must have single handedly reduced redshirt casualties by 50%!
They got the whole remasted original series on Amazon Prime for streaming FYI, so I'd been watching some of the better episodes.
It's also worth considering TOS in context to other shows that were airing at the same time. Yeah, it had things like Spocks Brain and Who Mourns for Adonais, or that one time they teamed up with Abraham Lincoln because a space cloud said so. But consider shows like Lost in Space where you had Dr Smith arguing with a sentient carrot man, or Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea with it's Werewolf, Leprecaun and 3 seperate alien invasions in a row episodes.
By the standards of it's time, TOS was fairly straight. Certainly though some episodes definitely stand out. Doomsday Device is one of them, Balance of Terror another. I also loved Ultimate Computer simply for the perfomance we get from William Marshall as Daystrom.
I'm not alone in this either, as that was also Tim Russ's favourite TOS episode for the same reason. You've got to feel sorry for Tim Russ really, this was the guy who had been trying to get a named role in Star Trek since he narrowly lost out in the audition for La Forges role in TNG. He starred as an extra alongside almost every captain ST has ever known, but when he finally does get his big break what is it? Fucking Voyager. A show literally shat out as a contractual obligation so DS9 could get made as intended.
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