It has to be north of 60%, r-right? Spanos hates Kroenke more than hates being in San Diego?
I hate how a lot of people are telling us to drive to LA and watch the NFL. That's like asking a Red Sox fan to watch the Yankees if the Red Sox moved from Boston.
With traffic, the trip from SD to LA is easily 4-5 hours. I can fly to New York faster. Fuck LA.
Our rivalry with them is deep, and there is no way in FUCKING HELL I or any other San Diegan would ever cheer for an LA team.
> What are our chances of keeping the Chargers?
If the Chargers don't go to LA, the Raiders do. If they do go to LA, then the Raiders will seriously consider moving to San Diego if a stadium plan is approved. If the Chargers go to LA and SD doesn't approve a stadium plan, then the Raiders go to San Antonio.
Spanos doesn't want to be in SD and hasn't for a long time. They have invested a whole lot on getting this far, they won't give it up.
OP should know sharing the Kronkedome was always going to be the NFL's final choice and literally everything else that was said and done was propaganda or misdirection. Spanos and Kroenke knew theyd have to share for at least two seasons.
For their part, Faulconer and the county have done a good job making it seem like they really wanted to spend taxpayer money when they never were going to. They offered a plan and then wisely said it had to be put up for a vote to make it seem like they were trying but that was rejected by Spanos because that would never pass. SD doesn't pass major spending propositions in a presidential election year.
In summary, you are being played, even right now. The Union Tolietpaper is wall to wall with football to make the eventual break a bit softer and deflect any anger towards Faulconer.
If spanos is smart he would go back to SD and take one of the proposals like the mission valley one
but he is dean spanos and he will think that SD fans are such cucks that they'll move with the team to LA in one of the most expensive states to live in
Revenues are so much greater if Chargers are in LA. Eventually they will find a stadium site in north Orange County and settle their, but even sharing a stadium is an improvement on San Diego right now.
The idea that the numbers haven't already been crunched and the decisions made is laughable. This is not happening live.
>Revenues are so much greater if Chargers are in LA
lets be realistic here
LA will no accept the chargers when a majority of the fanbases there have been raiders , niners and cowboys.
Rams have a following but if chargers move in then it is a guaranteed control of the city
Anaheim , Inglewood , all of SoCal including SD due to chargers moving would be a ram territory and this is not NYC where you have loyal folks that will support both
You are telling your fanbase to fuck off , move to another that does not care about you and possibly have the raiders move down south to vulture the rest
yeah no spanos can not be this stupid
everyone in LA didn't care about the chargers then , we didn't even care about the NFL until the final weeks of relocation meetings.
That is such a gross exaggeration. The previous proposal offered by the Mayor was in a location different than what the Chargers wanted (which they had not vocalized publicly or privately) until after he had presented it, and that presentation asked for a little more than $100 Million than Dean Spanos's representative said he was willing to pay. Acknowledging that downtown would be more expensive than Mission Valley, the Mayor has already said publicly that he is willing to help the Chargers get to downtown if that is what they want, the additional $100 Million offered by the NFL certainly helps with funding, and the County Supervisor confirmed Thursday night that Goodell had called the Mayor Thursday morning and confirmed a desire on the part of League ownership for the Chargers to remain in San Diego. If the Chargers come to the table, say what they want, and legitimately negotiate instead of using negotiations as a means of acquiring reasons why they can't stay in San Diego, there is absolutely a chance to stay. Everyone and their mother was swearing that the Chargers were going to execute their option as soon as the next day. Guess what? a call to the Mayor suggests to me that Dean is legitimately in no rush, and is considering all of his options. He was caught Tuesday night in a very candid moment, and said himself that he hopes to find a way to stay in San Diego. If city government and Dean can set aside their egos, the Chargers may totally stay in SD, and not require the city to give the keys to the kingdom to keep them.
Let's be honest here: the best outcome here for the NFL is having the Rams and no one else go to LA, with both Oakland and San Diego staying where they are or maaaaybe having Oakland go to San Antonio.
The Chargers will have absolutely no fan base here. As someone living in Los Angeles, I can tell you nobody's been hoping for the Chargers to move over. The Raiders might have a fan base, but it would be exceptionally small and limited to the inner city and East L.A. Not to mention how having a second team in LA when only having one is a gamble really makes things unpredictable economics-wise.
The best solution: Put the Rams and only the Rams in LA. San Diego stays. Oakland either stays or goes to San Antonio.
If you think they haven't done years of market testing and research into this, again, you are being played.
If LA wasn't going to be profitable, they wouldn't have gone all this way.
There were potential sites in Oceanside. Potential sites in Chula Vista. Concrete offers at Misson Valley. Negotiations for Downtown. Spanos and Co have repeatedly delayed and avoided these options because they wanted to move. And they wanted to move because a new stadium with expensive box seats and a bigger tv market means more money.
Fuck, amigo. You sound like a desperate ex.
Do you literally think Spanos was waiting for the news reports to find out if he was allowed to move? Or that anyone is sitting around right now, panicking, debating their options?
This has been decided behind closed doors for months, things aren't suddenly changing just because the media had a slow news day
>If you think they haven't done years of market testing and research into this, again, you are being played.
that is the thing
they obviously have not
Ask anybody from Florence to long beach to Anaheim
nobody cares about the chargers and never have since 1994
if they move to LA they will fail and stan knows this which is why he gave the chargers the first option
chargers have the money to compete but not the fans
raiders don't have the money but I know for sure they have the fans and if stan doesn't receive all the concessions like athletics do then no doubt they'll receive more money over the years
this is bait written all over for spanos and he should be smart enough to see it
>maaaaybe having Oakland go to San Antonio.
SA is not a viable option for any team unless the owner is willing to go head on with jerry and Mcnair who are both very influential and powerful unlike davis
plus SA is not a serious option it is just leverage like LA was
San Antonio is 280 miles away from Dallas and 200 miles away from Houston
The two Texas owners may hate it but the rest of the league wouldn't especially if it means 1) free stadium and 2) more money in their pockets
Yeah and now the Raiders are going to move to his backyard and there's nothing he can do about it, unless he wants to pay for a stadium in Oakland himself.
Oakland is even poorer than San Antonio, has worse educational attainment, and has less billionaires.
They're moving to San Antonio
never happening and
Except there is no shot of the Raiders moving into Santa Clara because Mark Davis HIMSELF said it was not an option
It's either LA or San Antonio or San Diego at this point. Moving the Raiders to Santa Clara would kill the Raider fanbase. You'd have to be a horrifically dumb owner to be someone else's bitch
>>It's either LA or San Antonio or San Diego at this point. Moving the Raiders to Santa Clara would kill the Raider fanbase. You'd have to be a horrifically dumb owner to be someone else's bitch
LA or Oakland
Raiders have a fanbase in santa clara despite the rest of NorCal excluding oakland is niner territory . Oakland is a more popular Jets in this situation along with fans from southern california that take trips up north to Oakland to watch the raiders.
Mark would not have to pay a large fee to play in santa clara and would not hesitate if he had to since oc.o is literally falling apart.
Mark davis is a dumb owner that knows football , he is not his father who was a genius of a owner and football manager until dementia kicked in , Mark will go where his team has to go and you can not relocate when one meeting has already finished , the next would be scheduled for next year by NFL rules.
So either LA , Oakland or with NFL and Santa Clara consent(which both said time and time again they would allow it) Levi's Stadium is the last option
I'm willing to bet you're the same person, so lets talk. You are arguing that this is all handled, wrapped up with a bow, and has been for months. Do you have any evidence, or is it all speculation? I'd wager the latter, so lets set that aside because you're effectively saying you're right because chem trails in the sky, and everything that we actually have to base estimations are is fictional and not deserving of consideration. If that were the case, why even have this thread?
Mark Fabiani is Dean Spanos's special council, and public mouth piece. When I say Mark, assume its coming from Deans mouth. Mark said the Chargers were content continuing to try staying in San Diego until Stan Kroenke purchased the Hollywood Park site in Inglewood and declared an intent to build a new stadium there.
Now the LA area has been without an NFL franchise for 20+ years. The Chargers strove to develop a market in LA in that absence, and did so well that when they sought to test that development by holding training camp in Carson, they stopped doing so after two summers because of the abysmal turnout compared to that in San Diego.
If you look at any poll asked in the LA area over the course of this entire ordeal, the Chargers were universally the last team desired to return to LA. Yet despite this, Mark maintains that it accounts for 25% of their season ticket sales. Dean maintains it accounts for 25% of their business. Both agree that San Diegans account for 75% of both. Mark has been asked what they base the 25% number off of, and he said it was based on internal research. When asked if the Chargers planned to release that research, he said "no." That sounds fishy to me more than any of your reasons for doubt. If the number was legitimate, why not release the evidence of it? Not doing so suggests falsification.
Now, maybe that 25% of business or those ticket sales are legitimate. Personally I'd argue they aren't, and that they are comprised of alienated Rams and Raiders fans who'll return to them when they get back to LA. I'd also argue that they are comprised of ticket brokers who aren't fans of anything other than the profit they make off of their resale of tickets. When asked why the Chargers sought to move to LA, Mark said that it was to preserve their 25%. When asked about the 75% they were risking by moving, Mark said that Dean believed fans would drive to LA to continue supporting the Chargers. Every poll I have seen whether clinical or not has shown that would not be the case.
Now leading up to Tuesday, Mark as well as others conveyed publicly and often that Dean had support. The Dean was liked. That Dean had enough votes to stop Inglewood from passing. 30-2 says otherwise. 30 mind you that almost assuredly includes the 5 members of the Relocation Committee who just earlier the same day voted in favor of Carson during the Committee recommendation vote...unless of course you're going to try to tell me that Spanos and Davis voted for Inglewood instead.
In the months leading up to the vote, there were rumors and plenty of speculation about Spanos or Davis potentially exiting their agreement to jump in bed with Kroenke. To this, Fabiani confirmed that they did not like the Inglewood site, and refused to be a tenant to Stan Kroenke.
Over the course of that time, a citizens initiative grew in San Diego that among other civil benefits was described as establishing a path to stadium construction in Downtown SD. It was point that Mark Fabiani confirmed what had been speculated, and that the Chargers only wanted a stadium in San Diego if they could build it downtown. It was at this point the hypothetical was given that the Inglewood site be chosen and the Carson proposal's existence brought to and end. Would the Chargers consider jumping in bed with Kroenke then?
Mark Fabiani said then that the Chargers were set to either pursue the Carson plan, or return to SD and build a downtown stadium via the citizens initiative.
So then comes Tuesday, and we all know how that turned out.
Dean Spanos, the man so incapable of emoting naturally that I question whether or not he is on the spectrum walks out looking suckerpunched, but in an off the cuff moment he is asked about the potential of the Chargers staying in SD, and while he does not commit, he does express that he hopes to find a way to make things work in SD.
The next day, Roger Goodell is confirmed to call Mayor Faulkner, and convey a desire on the part of NFL ownership that he find a way to keep the Chargers in SD.
Afterwards, the Mayor himself, who up to then was dead set on building the Chargers a new stadium in Mission Valley conveys a willingness to build one for them downtown.
That evening, the County Supervisor say that he and the Mayor are willing to do anything necessary to keep the Chargers in SD.
Now we can talk organizational valuation increasing just by moving to LA, but that only matters in Dean Spanos intends to sell the team, which Fabiani has said many times is not the case. Besides that, staying in SD has moving to LA beat.
>part of LA's "25%" + minority of SD's 75% of Chargers fans, especially if the Raiders go to SD
>taking on $1.5 billion (buy in and relocation fee) in debt to be able to buy into Kroenke's stadium or receiving no revenue out of stadium operations
>no authority to make stadium design choices
>playing out of another man's castle
>playing in Inglewood
>little fish in a big pond
>SD's 75% + minority of LA's 25% of Chargers fans
>extra $100 million granted by NFL ownership
>most likely total revenue from stadium operations, marketing, naming rights etc.
>Complete authority over stadium design
>King of his own castle once again
>playing blocks from the water in San Diego
>big fish in a big pond
To me it is no contest.
get on a fucking train you pleb. people commute from LA to SF to watch games and they dont cry half as hard as these san diego faggots over a proposed drive thats no further than some idiot who lives on one side of LA going to the other side for a game.
im sure that a bostonian wouldnt give two shits about rooting for a team from new york if THE CLOSEST TEAM IN THAT SPORT was in new york. Regional rivalries only exist if there is a rivalry to be had. I understand the hate for LA and vice versa but there isnt even a rivalry to be had
only rivalry is a socio-economic one if any at that point. Personally I wouldnt give two flying fucks what some faggot from LA thinks about my situation in san diego and if i were a pathetic sub human who actually lived in LA id probably assume the same
odds are the Chargers will stay in SD where they will have the entire market to themselves rather than have to split it with the much more loved Rams team. Spanos will also not like having to be a tennant in someone else's stadium
But Donald sterling didn't have to spend 1.5 billion to move
Spanos moving to LA will financially ruin and if he will be saving nearly $900 million building a new stadium in San Diego
It may be more intense but far less relevant and much more one sided. Us San Diegans have bitter hatred for LA. Its more like little brother crap when you look at it objectively, but fuck LA. The Chargers moving to LA is to us as the Eagles moving to NY for the people of Philly.
Yes. That makes it all the more infuriating.
To have your most hated rival hardly even be aware of the rivalry because as far as everyone else in the world can tell: SD and LA are the same thing.
People from SD think LA is disgusting, which it is, but everybody still lumps SD in with LA on everything.
Only in your own mind, son.
we're getting the raiders senpai
>tfw going from 10 years of based rivers right into 10 years of based carr
being san diegan truly is the master race
the gayders have been pretty much cock blocked into oblivion, and they get to be the sole occupants of the oakland lelasium after this season so they're going to work something out. Also Autismo Davis is poor as fuck and can't afford to do anything else (he's not gonna sell either).
It's okay, SD.
I lose my chargers all the time, too.
>is it all speculation
The NFL is not a democracy. It isn't open, there aren't devils advocates. The owners got around and held meetings to determine the viability of SD vs LA. It is reasonable to assume they brought it loads of experts across a number of fields. They almost certainly conducted market tests. Then these same owners had a big media-day voting session. If you think in that meeting ANYTHING was discussed or debated or challenged, you are naive. The owners had made their minds up months ago either because they were convinced by experts, they owed people favors, or they were bribed. The idea that Spanos and Kroenke haven't known the outcome and haven't been preparing for the media is silly. Everything that is happening this week is show, and what good publicity it is!
>Spanos was content with staying in San Diego
I would dispute that as evidence by the Chargers having nearly a decade to find a new sight and being unwilling to decide on one. They've gone all across the county, found plenty of options, and every time, they've backed out of any new site. In this same amount of time, the Niners have built a new stadium in San Jose and the Rams have got a site in Inglewood. The Chargers were not lacking for options, nor is it impossible to buy land in California.
As the last year have unfolded, the Chargers have played the same cards when dealing with the Mission Valley site as they did in North County, as they did Southbay. It seems obvious that they have only looked at these options as backup to a potential big move, either to Orange County or the unrealistic Downtown site.
The Chargers won't release internal research because no company will release internal research. They might use fake numbers as a barganing chip, but there's something more important about those numbers.
The NFL and its teams want a new audience. Right now the Q might bring in a minority of Orange County rich people and the Chargers might rely on middle class San Diegans, but that isn't the spread the NFL wants or the spread they are aiming for with a new stadium.
As we've seen in Dallas and in San Francisco, the goal is to build a fan base that desires the box seats. This is fundamentally important. The thousand dollar game packages are the new revenue goals. The Chargers see a big pile of money sitting up the coast. They want to have a stadium with 50% big spending Orange County techies and it can't happen in the Jack Murphy and it can't happen in a redesigned Jack Murphy. They want game packages and televisions in seats and big glass boxes and it is going to be expensive and San Diego will not foot the bill.
If they get that audience, they really don't care who drives or who rides the Surf up to LA. That's all media spin. They don't care about loss of fans because there is a whole new group of people the NFL has opened up to in the last 15 years. The fat fuck from El Cajon can and will be replaced.
>he expresses hope, etc etc
Whether Spanos is that annoyed by Kroenke remains to be seen. It isn't impossible that Spanos stays in SD for that reason alone. However, regardless of where the Chargers are in the next two seasons, they want that rich audience. And they will move where ever it takes to get the stadium required to bring that audience in.
Here's the facts: It's an election year. Losing the Chargers would be unpopular. Being the reason the Chargers left would be a political disaster.
The mayor (who is one of the most realistic Republican contenders for the Governor's office in recent memory) is up for reelection. He does not want any backlash or any hard feelings. It is January and everything he says is protection. If he has principles and values, he'll keep them close to his chest for now.
The city council is up for reelection. It is a presidential year, meaning more Democrats will turn out. San Diego Republicans are entrenched, they benefit a hell of a lot from a Republican owned city and they are not going to allow something as stupid as angry NFL fans to fuck it up.
The City of San Diego will do anything to get the Chargers to stay, so long as it isn't their fault when the bill arrives. That is just politics. If Spanos consents to having the proposal be put to vote, it will happen. I've already said that vote is likely to lose this year, and that is why Spanos won't consent to that defeat.
The media show about the phone calls and all the press shit that the Faulconer has done for the last 6 months is not because anyone in the City really wants to spend on a new stadium. If they are fans, they will travel up to LA, what do they care.
This is all politics. It has been politics for months, it will remain politics for months. Faulconer's major goal in life is not to find a way to keep the Chargers, it is to become Governor. The City Councils goal is not to find a way to keep the Chargers, but to keep the partisan make up of the city intact.
It is a show, and if you are absorbed and on the edge of your seat about it, then it's doing its job.
Northridge is the cheapest and safest place you can live in LA
you not only get a easy access for dodgers, kings and lakers but soon rams plus get all the benefits of living in LA
Are you ready for Reagan 2.0, America?
You better fucking get ready.