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You are currently reading a thread in /sci/ - Science & Math

Thread replies: 49
Thread images: 5
Gravitational waves, now being heralded as the greatest scientific discovery of the decade, do not bring with them some magical form of communication.
Just because some hipster egghead with a liberal arts degree decided it would be a good science word to drop in their shitty science fiction novel, doesn't mean that the practical applications of gravitational waves can be anything you want them to be.
So, let's talk about exactly what gravitational communication would mean:
First off, Gravitational waves propagate at c. This makes them no more effective a means of ultra long distance communication than actual light.
Secondly, they are very, VERY weak, and much harder to detect than light. To give you an idea of how weak they are, the "amplitude" of the gravitational waves detected at ligo, originating from 2 twenty to thirty solar mass black holes spinning around each other pretty damn fast astronomically speaking, was about 1/3rd the diameter of a proton.
To put that in perspective, pic related.
Protons are fucking miniscule.
Lastly, we have no means of creating gravitational waves at any kind of detectable level.
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>>7855340
butthurt
>>
>>7855340
I think it really says something that modern physics discoveries are so dry and useless that the media has to put in so much effort to hype it up. When things like nuclear fission happened the papers merely reported the plain truth which is that it's a potential new energy source and weapon but now thy have to make up convoluted sci-fi applications that aren't even true.
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>>7855373
It's kinda disappointing that all this shits already been predicted and we're just proving it now. I hope I live to see some discovery that completely contradicts modern physics
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If gravity is waves can we build a lightbulb that emits gravity?
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>>7855428
>gravity waves
>light bulb
>light
>gravity
You see where I'm going with this?
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>>7855428
Every matter emits gravity
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>>7855479
But not insignificantly small quantities, but rather strong beam able to actually move objects
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>>7855373
>When things like nuclear fission happened the papers merely reported the plain truth which is that it's a potential new energy source and weapon

If that happened today /sci/ would be filled with faggots talking about how that was unrealistic sci fi.
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>>7855479
>Every matter emits gravity

In the same way that a charge "emits" an electric field. But in order to emit gravity WAVES, the matter has to move.
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>>7855419
>I hope I live to see some discovery that completely contradicts modern physics

How would that even be possible? Even Einstein's equations didn't contradict classical mechanics.
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>>7855340
>some hipster egghead with a liberal arts degree
Who?
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>>7855419
>I hope I live to see some discovery that completely contradicts modern physics

Iirc there were some results from LHC recently that may put supersymetry in doubt. But don't quote me on that.
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>>7855589
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>>7855677
We have sources of strong EM waves, visible light, IR, UV, X waves, so couldn't we build a source of gravity waves?
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>>7855688
you need an extreme event like a binary black hole merger to produce noticeable gravitational waves
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>>7855776
Is that doable?
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>>7855340
So your argument is because we dont have instruments sensitive enough to detect gravity waves right now, just moments after their discovery, they are useless and will surely never have any practical application?

All you need to produce gravity waves is literally flail your arms around. Its just detection thats an issue.
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>>7856176
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>>7855340
This image got me thinking... How is the size of a proton even defined? Is it defined in terms of an equipotential sphere of a field, or is there a real, sharp boundary (based on what?), or just a practical result from electron (or other particle) interactions?
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>>7856192
My argument is that they won't have an application in communication because generating them in a detectable manner requires the energy output of two fucking 20 solar mass black holes fucking each others butts.

>>7856211
That's a really good question that I myself don't have the answer to. Probably defined by shooting like a bajillion protons at each other over a long period of time and measuring the amount that are deflected or blocked, and using that to estimate the diameter. Just a guess though.
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>>7855363
/thread
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>curvature
>believing the earth is round, a sphere or spheroid.

"abyssal plains cover more than 50% of the Earth’s surface.[1][2] They are among the flattest, smoothest and least explored regions on Earth."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyssal_plain

"As is well known, atmospheric ducting is the explanation for certain optical mirages, and in particular the arctic illusion called "fata morgana" where distant ocean or surface ice, which is essentially flat,"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fata_Morgana_%28mirage%29
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>>7856225
>My argument is that they won't have an application in communication because generating them in a detectable manner requires the energy output of two fucking 20 solar mass black holes fucking each others butts.

This is again an issue with detection, not an issue with generation. Its not practical to use them for communications with our current detection capabilities, but you are failing to account for the possibility of more refined detection techniques.

The gravity waves my fingers aremaking as im typing this are traveling out through the universe, right now, and will continue forever. They are there, thats the important part. Whether they can be detected is up to the capability of what wants to detect them.
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>>7856246
>trying to be smart
>forgetting your oxford comma
>Fucking pleb.
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>>7856249
While that's technically true, you have to understand that it's simply not practical.
Who knows, maybe we [math] will [/math] find a way to detect gravitational distortions generated on the human scale reliably, but even still, using them as communication is totally impractical when light is so much easier to both detect and use.
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>>7856283
Things like heavy EM interference or the need to communicate through heavy EM shielding come to mind.

You could have a completely electromagnetically isolated chamber, with a gravity transceiver in it, communicating with another one just a short distance away, and then.. do stuff inside that chamber that requires such an environment while still being able to observe/communicate with the outside what what happening.

In this example the close proximity and static controlled environment may make it more readily feasible a goal, and while not practical for distance communication, could still have some practical use.
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>>7856311
Remind me to pick up a gravity walkie talkie the next time I plan on spending a year in a faraday cage
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>First off, Gravitational waves propagate at c

Actually;

>http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0375960198006501?via%3Dihub
>Laboratory, solar system, and astrophysical experiments for the “speed of gravity” yield a lower limit of 2 × 1010c. The link between relativity and the causality principle involves issues of the meaning of gravitational waves and curved space-time analogies. Apparently, Lorentzian relativity better describes nature than special relativity

Gravity is like a pressure wave, which means it propagates like sound, which has an infinite group velocity;

>http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/apl/90/1/10.1063/1.2423240
>Sound beyond the speed of light: Measurement of negative group velocity in an acoustic loop filter

Space is gravity's medium, and we can make one undisputable claim about the intersteller space; it's very sparse. However, saying it's very stiff would appear to be unvarifiable, but note that graphene is very sparse and stiff; I suggest that both traits are corrolated, and that space is the sparsest, stiffest medium.

The newton-laplace equation results in sparser, stiffer mediums conducting sound faster than denser, more elastic mediums.

To top it all off, jets from blackholes have been observed to have FTL velocities;

>http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1086/307499/meta;jsessionid=05877FD4F0ECC2BC25467DE475A75BC9.c2.iopscience.cld.iop.org
>Hubble Space Telescope Observations of Superluminal Motion in the M87 Jet
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>>7856225
It will just be a matter of inventing the gravity wave amplifier now but I'm still fairly skeptical of what they think they are measuring.
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>>7855340
wow this is pathetic. i guess if you are a super autist the only thing you really have going for you in intelligence. then when someone else is getting props for a scientific breakthrough your aspie genes just can't handle it and you get super butthurt. its pathetic really
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>>7855340

you know that gravitational waves are bullshit, right?
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>>7856748
lol
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>>7856742
I'm excited about their existence being proven, why does everyone here seem to think that I'm mad about their discovery?
I'm not even really mad, just sick of media misrepresenting what they are, and as such, people who trust that media misunderstand what their discovery means, and many start thinking it's some magical wonderfuel or some bullshit like that. It's all too common in today's society when a scientific discovery is made.
[math] That's [/math] what this thread is about.
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>>7855638
better to say "contradicts our theories or understanding of modern physics".
like liquid crystals - were thought to be impossible, iirc (and I may not)
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I'm not even from this board, and I can tell people are bitting bait all over the board.
wtf, why?
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>>7857417
It's the damn cat all over again.
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>>7857482
shreder's cat or some /sci/fi lore i don't know of?
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>>7857488
First one.
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>>7855340

Right, but this is how basic research works.
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>>7855340

>Lastly, we have no means of creating gravitational waves at any kind of detectable level.

I can move pick up an object and let it fall at my will, how is that not manipulating gravity?
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>>7857608
the keyword is detectable, genius
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>>7857625

soundwaves are detectable, gravitational waves are too and even work the same way.

cause LIGO aint no telescope, it's a microphone
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>>7855479
i'm surprised that your mother did not interfere with experiment
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So were gravitons disproven?
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>>7857686
No, a gravitational wave is a classical object.
Light waves don't disprove photons - a wave of light is a whole load of photons, and a gravitational wave is presumably a load of gravitons.
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>>7857645

if it requires about 300km length to gather a detectable phase difference for 2 black holes, how long would would detector have to be to detect something human size.

pretty fucking long
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>>7856454
>Lorentzian relativity better describes nature than special relativity

egghead hipster autist detected
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>year 32XX432 A.C. (After Clintons)
>surfing gravitational waves on my hover board
>some bitch starts crying about how gravity waves aren't useful
>careen past him while dousing its corporeal form with god bosons
>s/he gets even more pissed and turns infrared
>toss back a couple mini black holes while laughing
fuckin neuronals
Thread replies: 49
Thread images: 5
Thread DB ID: 513576



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