So we have yet to come in to contact with aliens. I do believe they exist.( virtually impossible for them not to) but what if they don't exist... Yet. There has to be a first everything. What if it is us?
>retarded star trek crap
space travel is hard OP, more intelligent beings lightyears away would still have a hard time creating a ship efficient enough to travel those long distances whilst holding enough energy to continue travel and sustaining the lives of its passengers.
also, if a society was able to evolve to become hyper-intelligent while not killing themselves off or succumbing to some natural disaster (both difficult over the long run), why would they want to contact us? they might want to observe us for lel's, but there would be no rational reason to make contact. we would just start asking them for things and feel inferior.
we don't want to be space niggers.
There is a lot of literature on Fermi's Paradox. Really, there are more reasons to explain why we haven't seen alien space-faring civilization than reasons why we should.
Basically, things evolve on geologic time-scales, millions of years, scientific, advanced civilizations probably only last a few hundred until they run out of resources or kill themselves off.
Also our main method of finding aliens is fucking around with a radio receiver. Why would aliens try to beam radio messages or anything else to make them easy for us to detect? Probably don't even use radio for communication and if they do, it'd be encrypted or compressed into white noise anyways.
If aliens do use EM for communication, they may be long extinct by the time we get their message, or weay be long extinct by the time it gets here or theyvreceive our reply, or vice versa.
either way if they were super smart they could easily just build a robot and do the same thing, but they still haven't. so i see three choices:
1) white people are the best in the universe
b) aliens don't want to make contact
3) ultra-long distance galactic travel is so difficult/costly it's not worth it just to kidnap so goobags and stick metal objects in their butts
my money is on 1.
>aliens made of antimatter
>hottest woman you've ever seen
>penis obliterates immediately upon inserting into antivagina
>alien bitch laughs while reproducing some other way and keeping humans from reproducing
So you want to hypothesize about aliens?
First step: Dont ascribe any Human attributes to them.
You are literally left with no idea.
You also can't assume they don't have human-like qualities.
Sure, they might be 2 mile long radioactive squids with vast intricate cultures that entirely revolve around novel forms of vibrating glands in their assholes, so their too busy to worry about intersteller travel or communication or they might be basically like humans with bumpy foreheads, that just don't have petroleum and have no means to achieve escape velocity. Impossible to know.
Intelligence doesn't necessarily mean being self aware.
I think he means that European culture was the driving force behind science and industrialization and that was an aberration on top of the aberration that humanity even exists at all.
In other words, intelligent aliens out there could be forever stagnant with 3rd world type mindsets.
if you're going to be rational you need to basis your rationing/logic on some base assumption. for us it is "i exist" (or i think, therefor i am)
i can't imagine any other base assumption for logic, can you?
Anon, there are intelligent animals that can't pass the mirror test, and unintelligent animals that can. You don't have to be self-aware to be intelligent (and in this case, intelligent in the sense of being good as problem solving)
mehhhhhhh, ok self-awareness isn't the right term, but we're arguing terminology here. if you're going to use logic there has to be some base assumption.
if i say a=b & b=c, how do we know a=c? well for starters we know how the symbology works and that "=" means equality. how do we know what equality means? well, we've been taught, and we can form our basis of understanding based on things we've seen in life. we created the abstract way of representing it, but we actually understand its physical representation based on our observed and innate knowledge of the universe and being.
if you truly knew nothing of existence, whether explicitly (consciousness) or innately (sub-consciousness), you could only know the abstract representation and you would only know it as such as an entity in your memory. wipe that memory and you won't be able to piece it back together.
i mucked it up a bit i know but i hope you feel me senpai.
>getting anywhere in the 2020s
>flying machines require the bending of physical laws to work
>bending of physical laws
You mean the limited current understanding of physics? Modern physics is laughably incomplete, with no understanding of what gravity or spacetime is. Anyone who would claim otherwise is an idiot, let alone someone who would state absolutes based on very limited knowledge.
it's being able to "hear" your thoughts. the thoughts that you are aware of, and if you are capable of language, the thoughts you can then voice.
sub-consciousness is all the background noise we don't even know is going on, but probably where most of our true brilliance and intellect lies (last bit is speculation).
There is experimental evidence that all decisions are made by the "subconscious" which is fed to the consciousness as an illusion that the decision was actually made consciously. The conscious mind is basically an observer.
i read that on business insider a couple weeks ago. i mean it's freud's iceberg theory right? he makes a distinction between the sub-conscious and the unconscious but same shit, you could just combine the two.
i feel like the conscious mind is still more than an observer though. you're capable of making conscious, rational decisions, its just often easier to use that snap-judgment mechanism that utilizes something else.
>feel like the conscious mind is still more than an observer
This is experimentally proven to be false. The subconscious mind makes all decisions in advance of the conscious mind being aware of them.
The extraordinary claim is that life on Earth is somehow special and powered by magic pixie dust, not by common chemical reactions of common compounds.
my argument against that would be that time when you're sitting there taking a math test, you're sweating it out on this problem and you can literally hear yourself "ok, so, if g is proportional to sin(a) prime and..." you're literally thinking about it, consciously and rationally.
however, as you're working through it and you suddenly reach that eureka moment where you take a gasp of air as suddenly you realize you have the answer before you can even say what it is, that might be where you guys are right, i dont really know where that comes from or what it is exactly
i'm with you anon
>The extraordinary claim is that life on Earth is somehow special
but it is special
where else in the observable universe have we seen evidence of life thus far. nowhere. enjoy your dumb violent primates meme though.
flying machines were hard, but turns out not that hard. making those flying machines get near the speed of light without structural damage or running out of fuel is really fucking hard.
of course if you have all the answers any problem is easy, that's not new anon.
>that might be where you guys are right
Sorry faggot, but there's no denying that the "conscious" mind is a tagalong. There's undeniable experimental evidence to the fact that the subconscious calls the shots and that consciousness is an illusion. Humans are admittedly smart, but still automatons.
>Humans are admittedly smart, but still automatons.
>where else in the observable universe have we seen evidence of life
>implying that there has been a comprehensive survey of the cosmos for life
There has only been the most insignificant glance, akin to an indian looking out of their teepee and seeing no smoke signal on the horizon, and proclaiming that there are no other people alive.
Statistically, alien life exists else were in the universe. The problem is that we will never meet them. To do that we would need faster than light travel or communication. 99.9% of all known life went extinct without coming anywhere close to that. Why would we be any different?
There is a 100% certainty that life is possible. It is up to you to explain how life is only possible here when the building blocks and reactions of our life are common throughout the cosmos, let alone other unknown basis for life.
Is this a joke? If anything, right NOW would be the best time to make contact.
We are in a unique time period. In the past, we didn't have the offensive capabilities necessary to wipe ourselves out as a species entirely. Now, that is a very real threat. And in the future, we will have either a) wiped ourselves out, or b) worked past our issues with nuclear weapons/climate change/whatever issue the world as a whole is facing, as we will not all be dead.
But right now, that's up in the air, and if some alien species discovered/had been watching humanity, right now would be the best time to make contact, in order to either straighten out our shit and make us their subordinates, or to destroy us and take the planet for themselves.
Actually id think intelligent, spacefaring aliens would be more human like than we think. they probably have something similar to opposable thumbs, or some other dexterous setup that allowed them to create tools. They also probably have free limbs to do such tasks, so bipedal isn't even that much of a stretch.
Their eyes probably "see" a range around the peak wavelength of their host star. Their various sensors are probably elevated, in one place, close to their brain, as to be maximally efficient and protective.
Sure they most likely don't look like the bug eyed aliens of sci fi but im convinced they would look much more like us, than say, a giant insect
Well let us think for a moment before making assumptions either way. Consider the possibility that in the cosmos life is common, and that there are possibly many billions of civilizations throughout the universe.
Now consider that for a civilization which mastered the understanding of nature and graduated past burning things for energy, it may be possible that the ability to manipulate spacetime, gravity and energy at will.
Now I'm not saying that's the case, but I will say that as far as we know, this is neither possible nor impossible.
OK that's the setup, now consider possibly millions or billions of civilizations with mastery of interstellar travel, where distance is arbitrary and irrelevant and could travel anywhere at will.
Of these millions of species, it is reasonable to assume some evolutionary convergence will occur, even if only superficial. Imagine that a couple of times, a few other bilateral quadrupeds produced a human-like body plan, like a grey or Chewbacca or something.
Now considering all of the above, would it be reasonable to assume that a spacefaring race which had some superficial resemblance to us humans would be interested in studying us? Perhaps they feel some kinship in a cosmos where the norm is to look like a farting balloon with tentacles, or a massive buttplug with a crown of dicks (pic related).
Anyway I think it just shows a lack of imagination to assume anything about unknowns as absolute fact.
The universe is pretty big. Even a ship traveling at the speed of light will take a few hundred, thousand, million, billion, etc years to reach a destination. FTL travel is physically impossible, wormhole manipulation is physically impossible, and time travel is physically impossible.
If aliens contact us then it will be through telepathy. Why spend time and energy building space-faring vessels and dyson spheres to power them when you can travel the universe from the comfort of your own house using the power of your mind?
>"we need petrol burning engine to turn propeller but to burn that petrol we need to case it in a big metal block which weighs a lot therefore this will never get off of the ground"
>"our propellers made of two flat paddles are not working, why not?"
>"What the fuck is a wing"
Our knowledge of aerodynamics and engine design was so bad in 1907 that all official attempts to fly based on theory failed and it was the Wright Bros trial and error flukes that eventually managed it. Sometimes the theory isn't there and you have to just get lucky stumbling upon something in order to move forward. This will happen for FTL travel one day.
>I think he means that European culture was the driving force behind science and industrialization
I don't think it was the culture, I think it's more a case of europe having access to the atlantic and all the resources of the americas, having the mediterranean as a large sandbox for easily using and ships and iterating naval tech for thousands of years, and the geography being conducive to trade but not conducive to conquering large areas of land long term, meaning that there would inevitably have been a bunch of different states competing and fighting with each other, and arms-racing with tech, until eventually sufficiently high tech would push the fighting outwards.
>The Solar System is pretty big, Even a ship traveling at the speed of sound will take 600 years to get to Pluto, therefore humans can never send anything there within their own lifetimes
>We can't travel faster than the speed of sound because the shockwave would rip the spaceship apart before it left Earth's atmosphere
This is how dumb you sound.
This, it was more the geography. Civilizations grew around the Mediterranean which meant that any empire ended up controlling bits of three different continents instead of the whole thing. This left them open to constant attack on three fronts causing all the empires from Carthage to Macedon to Rome to break up. What was left were many small competing states on all the many peninsulas.
But speaking from a purely realistic standpoint, humanity is an extremely infantile species. The issues have taken on a new dimension, but the only reason they are perceived as being ingrained into the fabric of our species is the phenomenon of a cultural hegemony. These characteristics of the unique time period are mere complications of those chemically reinforced behaviors. This species can't make any meaningful social progress, as the biological makeup can't change meaningfully within a time frame that allows for mitigation of such issues. These issues are an "acquired taste" in that the perception thereof must be shaped separately from innate reflexive reaction. Consequently one can assume that our biologically primitive nature limits our ability to function as a social species, given that each new member has to learn things the previous member learned independent from the previous member's knowledge. This is not to say that knowledge cannot be expanded, but it clearly indicates that there are certain limitations that make the human race undesirable in the case that the alien group wishes to perpetuate its existence in a manner befitting growth of social knowledge.
But what is the material that will carry such a mental signal? Is there even a compatibility of biology allowing for such communication? You assume that there is in the case of telepathy. Furthermore, your ambiguity on such a communicative vector implies that such means of communication can indeed move "faster" than any other reliably documented particle or energy. In order to foster such communication the problem you decry as grounds for impossibility of such travel will have to be solved, along with the problem of gaining human specimens from which to build a working manner of mental communication. In essence you've complicated the problem.
Here's what I think:
Aliens were actually humans who reached technology advancement and some sort of apocalyptic cataclysm happened which forced them to leave in the saucer ships. Eventually they found other planets that they could settle on after drifting through space for a good couple hundreds of years possibly, every so often they send scouts out to Earth to see what type of condition it is in or whether it is hospitable again.
I think he is saying that the theory of general relativity isn't comprehensive enough to state that FTL travel is impossible. It may be possible to control gravity or mass forces, thus negating mass effects. Or it may be possible just to warp space to just sidestep that limitation and move the space itself faster than light.
No, because humans are directly related to everything else on the planet.
ETs are probably just that. They might not even share the same chemical chirality as human life.
Though personally I like the theory that the 'greys' are clones, cloned from other clones, for thousands of years and they're only interested in Earth to take DNA material and samples to insert in place of all the degraded, corrupted, inbred sorta DNA, so they can perpetuate as a species. So it explains the cow mutilations and human abductions.
Other than that they're just slightly bewildered that we have nuclear weapons 1 generation after we're all fucking around with horse and buggies.
They're presumably masters of genetic engineering and they can splice material into their own DNA where it works. Consider that 5-8% of the human genome isn't even human-derived DNA. It's endogenous retrovirus RNA elements from a long history of evolution. Aliens derived from vast generations of clones could be even more of a genetic trash-heap than humans and could have flawed portions they could replace with literally anything and it'd be better.
Gene splicing away non-functioning DNA, creating genetic chimeras, ect. It makes perfect sense if you know jack shit about genetics.
I also like the idea that their skin is actually an integrated bio-mechanical space-suit. Why they seem to walk around naked in our hostile environment, with people coughing and shitting on them, ect and never blink and their that weird grey color. It's inorganic material fused to their adipose tissue or something and they're shit out of their breeding vats wearing it.
This is all speculation, man, but some speculation makes more logical sense than others, I think.
Cause they can't replicate DNA or functional genetic code without very minute changes or weaknesses taking place over time over multiple replications. Some sort of physical limitation on the process.
Alternatively, we have genetic material that they never seen before, or are curious about splicing into their own.
If you don't believe all these decades of alien encounters, government documents, video, ect, are real than who cares. If you analyse the common elements, they point that they're not doing much besides passively observing, abducting, or butchering living creatures, or fucking around nuclear weapons or military sites, and the latter was only in the 40s-70s.
So, I like the idea they're after genetic material. Otherwise maybe they developed a taste for beef and human embryos.
Go a better idea?
This is true in terms of the "greys". You might not like Vsauce but check out this link for a few seconds
In zero gravity your head swells and there is pressure on your eyes. If a person was born in zero gravity and lived to maturity, they would look identical to the grey aliens people have seen throughout the years. A child's skull isn't hardened like an adults, so the the swelling in the head would cause a child's skull to take the form of a grey alien.
Cause life sure is prevalent in the universe.
>living creature incredulous that life exists
it's possible that we're a simulation and not "alive"
therefore, it's not certain that life exists at all.
as for implication of intelligent design or w/e the fuck you want to call it, consider that nobody really comprehends the vastness of the universe, and even a seeming impossibly small chance of life existing could still give rise to millions of life forms existing or yet to exist in the universe
Some people are fairly adamand that the sum total of consciousness in the entire universe exists here on Earth, which is horrific.
Others postulate that the cosmos is teeming with civilization, which is cool.
But one thing I've considered is this: what if the total number of civilizations in the whole of time is two, which is absolutely terrifying. Think about it.
I'm afraid the deal is done. We'll see you in 40 earth hours.
Oh just because there aren't any "official" public sources/publications in today's media, that it never happened? You must have access to every government report in the world and know everything that ever happened.
Humans are basically no better than cavemen. For all of our dickwaving, humans still rely on chemical energy almost exclusively, rely on raw materials almost exclusively, breed uncontrolled.
To an interstellar species we might be an interesting novelty, like we would feel reading about the crow using a stick or a gorilla using sign language. The reality is that the vast majority of humanity has a sub 110 IQ and is frankly stupid.
The sad fact is that humans are nothing but space niggers and will never be allowed to join the club. The aliums are here to stop us totally sterilizing our biosphere and keep us contained, but not to talk to us. The aliums are the ones keeping the whole thing secret.
>time travel and FTL is impossible but telepathy is totally a thing xD