Calculus 2 - What is the point of it?

>>7804506
here's your (You)

>>7804506

without calc2 you can't even solve a simple problem like http://www.motleytech.net/en/2015/03/20/falling-into-the-sun/ with analysis alone, and would have to resort to using other equations (which were derived from calc 2, by the way)

>>7804506
Integration by parts is the product rule of derivatives done in reverse. Trig substitution is tough, but you learn the patterns if you do some integrals.

The point of calc 2 is to prepare you for integrals in calc 3. You'll be using the same techniques, but it will be with more dimensions. This doesn't make it harder; it's only really a couple more layers and it does make it more useful. When you learn integrals in calc 3, you can add up surface areas,or figure out force applied to something that's not a perfect geometric figure. Calc is mad useful with probability theory, and integrals are central to meaningfully understanding how it all works.

Right now, it may seem like you're doing a bunch of worthless substitutions and pointless syntactical exercises. That's because you are. I find calc classes too often separate the meaning of the work from the actual calculations. It's annoying. But if the structure of your class is anything like mine, you'll start to get into very basic applications soonish. GLHF

>>7804506
>the point of Calc 2
it all makes sense when you take Diff Eq and Numerical Methods.

taylor expansion is pretty much engineering bread and butter.

heat diffusion equation? taylor expansion
fluid mechanics? taylor expansion
RK4? taylor expansion

all those integration techniques are useful when you learn about error in approximations. you will one day have to shoe horn a function into trigonometric form just so you can achieve spectral accuracy.

Calculus has a myriad of applications from physics and economics and while most the computations done with it today are handled by computers there will never be a time in the near future where they allow someone incompetent to be in a position that requires its use.

>>7804506

Everything in math has applications. Have faith in it and you will be rewarded in the next life or academic year (whichever comes first).

>>7804506
If you're an Engineer, you'll very soon find applications for ALL of it.

>>7804544
………...By letting Autocad do all the calculations behind the scenes. You forgot that part.

>>7804735
you will still be building algorithms from first principles all the damn time.

Just wait until you hit infinite series and sequences, and taylor series, OP. You don't know hard yet. I cried when we left integrals and into series. I don't know why, I just can't get series locked down.

>>7804506
>I am a purpose driven learner.

Oh so you are
>smart but lazy
huh?

Fuck off, you are not a 'purpose driven learner'. Either you are a learner or you are not, you mongoloid.

If you were a learner, you would learn fucking calc 2 without crying like a little bitch when they ask you to integrate trigonometric functions.

It's funny that you say it, OP, because Calculus is one of the most useful branches of math.

>>7804506
Calc 2 is everything that doesn't fit cleanly with Calc 1 or Multivariable. Just practice constantly you'll pick it up. Integration by Parts is one of the most important tools you pick up from Calc 2, namely it lets us shift a derivative onto something we can handle, thus allowing us to integrate. Everything you learn here will translate perfectly when/if you take Calc 3, because you won't be able to do some of those integrals without IBP, Trig subs, partial fractions, ect. Someone also mentioned Taylor series, and yeah that's one of the key things you get from the Calc sequence. It allows us to do all kinds of approximations when running programs, such as on Matlab, to integrate numerically, among many other important applications. It all honestly has a purpose, and if your Calc 2 course follows the same scheme as most do, then the second half will be less stressful than the first half. Once you get into Polar applications and Vectors you'll feel much better about the course, but for now you will have to power through the Trig subs and the IBP problems. Anything STEM related is going to need Calc 2 though, so running from it won't help.

>>7804769
If I was the grade you on your ability to play [INSERT_SHITTY_MMORPG] you would say that is unfair. You may deny it, but everything you learn has to be for a reason. If you do not understand the reason why you are learning something it is harder for you. Also, I never said I was smart but lazy. School work in general has always been easy for me. (Regardless of the topic.) A gym class about dancing is more harder to me than any physics or math class since it is about a topic I do not care about.

Do not grade a fish on its ability to climb a tree. The fish doesn't give a fuck about trees, it never has, and it never will. I did not see a point in Calc 2 until I read this thread but now I realize it is probably needed for Calc 3. Math is too abstract in general. All the courses should be based around a purpose. I think Calc 1 is taught nicely since it always starts with the tangent and area problem. Calc 2 doesn't seem to address any new problems.

>>7804811
>If I was *to grade you.
So many typos. Life is rough being a sleep deprived student. Surely there must be a better system than this.

>>7804811
>but everything you learn has to be for a reason
>knowledge has no intrinsic value

lol okay.

>>7804811
You're terrible at both writing and logic.

>knowledge has to have a reason
That reason is to get you a grade. Utility beyond that is entirely irrelevant because you are in school at the moment to get graded.

>>7804811
>everything you learn has to be for a reason
confirmed for being butt flustered and trying to find an excuse for being a fucking failure

>if you do not understand the reason why you are learning something it is harder for you
this is not true
i've aced classes purely on memorization and gotten subpar grades in ones many would consider clearly foundational to my interests

>school work in general has always been easy for me
confirmed for fresh out of high school or pursuing a liberal arts degree

>a gym class ... is more harder to me than any [science] class
confirmed for fat
seriously, a gym class about dancing sounds like a hell of a good time, with all sorts of personal benefits physically and socially (just catering to your "muh purpose" here)

>do not grade a fish on its ability to climb a tree
you've gone from "no purpose" to "not able to"
unfortunately for you, kid, millions of people have passed harder classes with A's; there is no reason apart from your own weak resolve and pitiful philosophy that you cannot do well in a undergrad, lower div course

>i did not see a point in calc 2... but now i realize it's probably needed for calc 3!
confirmed for not actually reading the entire thread
calc 2 is immensely useful and foundational for other fields

>math is too abstract in general
oh boy, time for you to leave

>all the courses should be based around a purpose
and what if you're incapable of grasping that purpose because it's too complicated? what if explaining that purpose would take too much time? or, in the case of calc 2, what if that purpose is just so fucking obvious and available via a simple google search that you're expected to understand it's usefulness all on your own? also see >>7804825

you reek of lazy you faggot

the point is mostly just to see if you can get through it.

>>7804506
Did you bitch in calc 1 when you encountered the product rule?
It's the exact same thing. It's a mechanical rule with no other purpose than to help you compute things.

You already know _why_ you integrate. The purpose of learning to integrate by parts is to actually learn how to integrate functions.

>>7804872
Confirmed for being molded by The Man. You probably do everything you are told. Don't you realize that all they are trying to do at universities is mold you into the perfect cog for a corporation. Unlike you I went straight into the industry when I was a teenager. I was making 40 an hour as a software engineer long before I went into college. I know how the real world works. Keep living off your student loans and grants, and thinking you're going to do anything with that piece of paper. I've already tried the wage slave life. I know that it doesn't lead to happiness. I am learning the stuff I want to learn in order to make real money. I feel sad for people like you. You actually think that paper with grades on it will amount to something. Enjoy being a wage slave.

>>7804914
is this pasta

>>7804914
ah, it seems like i've been rused
move along people, there's nothing but bait here

>>7804811
Hey don't be like that, I am definitely smart but lazy, it's not that bad. Not great either, as I did eventually drop out. But I still found a software engineer job anyway. Of course, no promises, since I thought calc 2 was easy.

>>7804825
Hello princess. From your words I can tell you were raised in a 1st world country. You aren't aware of the concepts of survival. Everything happens for a reason. Because you are spoiled you have the privilege to waste hours out of your life learning useless bullshit, but for the rest of us, we actually have bills to pay and stuff to do. I think you need to take a course on economics and learn how to optimize your limited time on this earth. I only want to learn stuff that will get me rich. If you do not share my mindset you will not amount to anything in a few years from now.

Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare.

Learn for the sake of learning you say? Turn my brain into a book? Why? That is silly. Knowledge without a purpose is silly.

>>7804952
>He isn't aware that top mathematicians earn 500k a year

Oh boy are you in for a big surprise. Keep slaving away for that 40k.

>>7804966
500k? Citation needed. Computer Science folks make more than mathematicians from what I recall reading.

Also, I don't care about salaries. I want to create a startup or any type of a golden goose that keeps laying eggs. My former boss dropped out of college and started a multi-million dollar business. That is what I am trying to do with my life. Salaries of any form are for tools.

>>7804914
$40/hr is around $80k/year.
If you know how the "real world" works, you'd know that's a damn fine and damn "real amount of money".
>>7804966
Top prostitutes make multiples of that.
>>7804975
>Salaries of any form are for tools.
Confirmed for >underageb&

>>7804735

>xd le calculators can do it for me why do i have to learn addition and multiplication? fuck education im so cool and edgy xd

This meme has to stop.

>>7804975
>Citation needed

http://ucpay.globl.org/index.php?name=terence+tao&s=gross

2014 Gross pay: $518,625.00

And the salary increases about 50k a year so we can expect that 2015 salary to be close to 600k.

>I want to create a startup
Then why do you care about knowledge not being complete useful?

Some old mathematician (still alive) got out of academia, created a way to predict stocks and became a billionaire in a second.

To start a business all you need is to not be retarded. However, knowing a fuck ton of math helps.

>>7804952
>money is the end all be all
okay, now i know you are just trolling.

>>7804506
Calc II is an extension of Calc I. You know how to do basic integrals, but what about trigonometric integrals? What about integrals that have a fraction in them? You are introduced to the concepts of the natural log and logarithmic properties in order to expand the types of problems you are able to solve. There's your practicality.

Integration by parts shows you how to integrate functions that are being multiplied as well as how find new integrals of functions that calc I alone would be unable to solve, such as the integral of ln x (You need integration by parts to solve this, and since a lot of functions in the practical world are based on logarithmic growth, how can you solve them without integration by parts?)

Finally, these calculus classes are not job training. But they laying the foundation for which you will build your future calculations on. You are correct that you won't probably remember everything you do in the class, but that's not the point. The point of it all is to expose you to it, so that when you get a real job, and that real job requires some calculus math, you can go back and revisit it and relearn it with ease due to your previous exposure.

The point of calc 2 is to arm you with better tools to solve more problems than Calc I would've allowed you to. If you hate it or are having problems with it, you are either not studying it enough, not putting in enough time, or you didn't do as well in calc I as you should have.

I had the worst professor in my college for calculus 2 and still had an easy time because I understood everything about Calc I going in and understood that the Calc II concepts were merely an extension. Only series was a bit difficult but that's natural for everyone, and it became easier after putting in the time and the work.


Stop complaining. Shut up. Man up. Pass your damn class. If you can't do it, switch your major to liberal arts.

>>7804982
>Salaries of any form are for tools.
>Confirmed for >underageb&
Like I said, I was making $40 an hour when I was a teenager. Most of my peers at that time were making $8 an hour at fast food places. I already know what it's like to buy a brand new car and have more money than you know what to do with. As my hourly rate increased I got more tasks and responsibilities and it only made my life miserable. A higher salary would not give me happiness. If you honestly believe salary is the only way to live then I feel sad for you. You should try to raise your expectations in life. Instead of dreaming about being the best employee try dreaming of being the best CEO. I can't relate to people like you who have low expectations in life. I suppose 4chan attracts people like that though.

>>7804986
My bosses' company made several millions in profit last year. Spare me with your "500 or 600k" salaries. Add an extra figure to that number and I will be interested. You can't buy my boss' mansion with a 500k salary. Well you could, but that would take most of your life to pay it off.

>>7805049
Nope, never implied that. Money is just freedom. Wage slaves do not have the same freedom of people who started their own companies. That piece of paper you'll get from college will only get you a job. It won't bring you true freedom or happiness. At some point when you are working you realize that more raises do not lead to more happiness. When I quit my job my boss tried to boost my salary up higher but I turned him down. My freedom is not for sale.

>>7805085
>Blah blah blah money freedom business independence

>Can't do easy as fuck integrals

Just shut up already god damn.

>>7805085
>That piece of paper you'll get from college will only get you a job.

it doesn't matter if you have a fortune 500 company, if you don't have a degree you will be viewed as uneducated in the eyes of society. particularly the upper echelons of it.

and you obviously have zero clue as to how legally defined professions work. you can't start a law firm without being a lawyer, can't start a medical practice without being a doctor. same with engineering.

the ambitious high school dropouts are the exception to the rule. most CEO's have degrees buddy.

>>7805085
You're trying to justify your own lack of motivation by saying that college is not worth it in general. Just go.

>>7805095
Unlike you I don't care about being right or wrong on an anonymous imageboard. If you want to walk away from this thread feeling like you beat me then fine. Take your victory. I am just trying to help you. I honestly feel sorry for people such as yourself who don't think like me. Are you honestly okay with learning bullshit in college that won't make you real money? Are you fine with being a wage slave? I am giving you advice that will make you real money which in turn will give you real freedom. Is your mom or the taxpayers paying for your internet right now? Do you even know what life will be like in the real world. Protip: knowing integration by parts is not going to put food on your table.

>>7805120
>real money
>real freedom
Simple people, simple logical errors

Take away your government loans, grants or scholars. Take away your mom's basement. Now go out in the real world and survive with your knowledge of integration by parts. Let's see how much food it puts on your plate. I am going to try walking to a corporation and tell them I know integration by parts. Maybe they'll hire me!

As a self-taught programmer I have real abilities and skillsets that can put food on my plate. Enjoy being an underpaid math professor because that's the only job you'll get.

>>7805137
>only math majors take math classes

>>7805137
But you're not good enough to make something up to make "real money".

>>7805120
dude, most people don't want to work that hard. running a big ass business, successfully, is demanding as fuck. i'd rather be home with my wife and kids or tinkering in my garage.

you think "yeah, once i hit x amount of dollars, i can take it easy!". but you never do, and all the money in the world can't buy you back the time you are going to have to sacrifice to climb that mountain.

if you want to be that guy with the pimp penthouse office that you never leave, then go right ahead m8.

>>7805137
>As a self-taught programmer I have real abilities and skillsets that can put food on my plate.

yup, but without a college degree you are legally barred from doing certain things. credentials are a real thing for a reason dumbass.

Both of those just comes out from chain rule [math]\partial_x \f(g(x))= \partial_g f(g) \cdot \partial_x g(x)[/math]

>>7805120
Then why the hell are you in college? If you truly believe what you say, go drop out right now. Do it.

Why make a thread about why you can't do calculus II and turn it into a philosophical debate about the benefits of college and practicality and wage slavery? Or did you fail rhetoric too?

>>7804506
Calc 2 is literally the easiest thing.
Integration by parts and trig sub you will remember forever, if you understand anything about calculus.

>>7805176
After 2 semesters I am considering dropping out. College would be much better if we didn't have to take so many bullshit classes. How do the academic folks justify 120 credit hours for a degree? Is that just a random number they threw out? Also, why are useless classes like gym a requirement. You should be able to get a degree with only 30 to 60 credit hours in my opinion. I suppose I am only in college to buy time. I use my spare time to work on my startup project(s).

>>7805200
What's your major right now?

>>7805176
>Then why the hell are you in college?
He's not.

>>7805110
>>7805167
Well, sort of. Supreme court just struck down a bunch of credentialing crap. see
North Carolina State Board of Dental Examiners v. FTC

>>7805208
Computer Science. The only classes that a CS student needs is:

Intro to programming I & II
Data Structures & Algorithms
Intro to Unix
Machine Learning
Operating Systems

Anything above that is just a waste of time. Man do I hate school.

>>7805217
...that doesn't mean what you think it means.

>>7805232
Then enlighten me, O Great Anon.

>>7804506
>Integration by parts
What universities did you apply to, HS senior?

>>7804513
That's cool.
Just:
-How is v^2/2= GMs(d-x)-GMs/d the conversation of energy rule?
-I never realised that a= dv/dx*v, but how should i visualise this?

>>7805200
>gym is a requirement at his school
well no wonder you have issues, you go to a shit school
also
>he has trouble making 120 credits
buddy i had fulfilled all of my requirements to graduate in three years, and i barely qualified to take the first quarter of calculus on entry
this is you blaming your failures on others and "the man" instead of your shit, lazy, faggot attitude

>>7805258
It simply means that groups like these organizing agencies can be sued if a certain threshold of those serving on the board are still active in the profession that they govern (i.e. it's no longer legal for them to choose their own competition without legal retribution for shenanigans).

>>7805222
>He is content with being a code monkey

Oh man now you are just coming off as underachieving.

If you were to only take those classes you would only be able to get jobs making fucking phone apps. Kids can do that shit.

>Job software for engineers
>Not even calculus to even begin helping them

>Physics simulations
>Not even calculus to even being building it

>Fluid simulations
>Not even complex analysis so you can't even begin building it

>Any kind of industry/academia tier research
>Not even anything. You have nothing to help you here.

Also
>Machine Learning
>Without first doing at least theoretical linear algebra

You are retarded and obviously a python baby. You have no idea on the kind of maths that are used in industry. With a curriculum like that not even app companies would hire you.

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>>7805222
You are literally this guy.

>>7805302
but PUA works though. its the same psychological gimmicks advertising has been doing for years. it doesn't work on everyone, but it does well enough to invest into it.

>>7805222
holy shit bro, stop posting.

CS/math double major here. you have no idea how helpful advanced calculus and algebra is in ANY of the following fields:

computer vision
artificial intelligence
data mining
robotics
pretty much every engineering discipline

>After 2 semesters

ah that explains it. thanks for adding to the reason nobody takes computer science seriously.

>>7805297
Unlike you buddy, I've already worked in the industry for 5 years. Those things you listed are mostly academic. The two startups I've worked at do not care about fluid simulators. The theoretical crap you mentioned will get you research grants but it won't get you a job. I am not a scientist. I don't want to be the nerd who invented the next great compression algorithm. I want to make a golden goose that gets me a lot of money/freedom. Want to know the difference between you and me. You live your life trying to impress people with your grades, I live my life trying to impress people with my products. Moot started 4chan with zero programming abilities, yet here both of us are using his service. My first assignment at my job was building a social network. If I could build a social network back then, what do you think I can do now. Let's see where you and I are 3 or 4 years from now.

>>7805302
That is feminist propaganda but I still laughed.

>>7805336
>but PUA works though
So do nigerian prince letters

>>7805356
and?

>>7805354
>building a social network is hard
oh buddy...

>>7804952
>>7805085
>>7805120
How do you do this? Write so pasta-able posts?

>>7805354
>why is calc 2 important
get BTFO
>I've already worked in the industry for 5 years
so you've been a monkey for 5 years? nice. hence:
>I'll never get a job at a large company with my grades
that's because they want to hire people who don't bitch out after the first hint of real difficulty.

also mate, the length of your posts is telling. you have an extremely fragile ego.

>>7805302 was right, lmao

>>7805348
Not OP but I have a question for you.
I haven't declared a major yet but I'm thinking about doing double in math and computer science. Is it extremely hard to balance both? I know there is significant overlap, which is why I was considering doing both, but while I am willing to put in work I also want to have some resemblance of a social life. Tell me your experience please.

>>7805354
>going into UNIVERSITY, intending to learn a CRAFT
I feel like there is something wrong with this statement, don't you think.

>>7805354
It's hilarious you can't even keep your bullshit straight, but here's something that no one else has bothered pointing out to you:

You are in the wrong major if your dream is to be doing shit like startups and whatnot. You need a business or finance major. CS/CE or the like won't teach you how to run a business.

>>7805377
it depends on when you want to graduate. I'm probably gonna be hammering at this for another two years (already year 3) but the trade-off is not being swamped with work.

Of course if you're a genius you can finish fast but then I don't think you'll have much of a social life.

I'd say go for it. Even if you don't get excellent grades, it's an extremely rewarding major and employers will recognize its difficulty. Plus it opens doors that OP will not have (like the ones I originally posted).

Good luck either way, man. It's up to you.

>>7805377
>significant overlap

CS and math do the same math all the way up to sophomore year. Starting your junior year, your CS degree will be completely applied because you need no math further than ordinary differential equations (or this is what colleges thins).

So on top of that you will have to take the first abstract math classes and at this point the two curriculums completely separate themselves from each other. On one side you will have pure madness like analysis and abstract algebra while on the other you will have applied nonsense like more algorithms, AI, machine learning or whatever your CS programs shoots at you.

At that point, if you are not a godlike genius and master of the universe then... you are in for a ride.

>>7805294
That's about what I thought it meant. Except why do you have to invalidate regulations of existing groups only by suing them? Couldn't you just start up and wait for them to sue you? (And hopefully fail...)

>>7805471
>Supreme court just struck down a bunch of credentialing crap.
Isn't at all the same thing, but w/e.

But to answer your question, they wouldn't have to sue you, they're a regulatory agency. They can just fine you out of existence if you try to play on their playground without the proper licensing. You couldn't do anything about this because if you tried to take it to court, they would just cite immunity to legal action.

Lawsuits are one of the few ways you can touch affect certain kinds of organizations, especially if what they're doing only infringes on civil law and not criminal law.

>>7804975
>I want to create a startup or any type of a golden goose that keeps laying eggs

If you're whimpering about the pain of one lousy calc class when there's nothing at stake but one grade, you'll probably kill yourself when you try to launch a startup.

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>>7804506
You are a fucking idiot.
Jesus fucking Christ just do your fucking work.

>>7805572
._. I have a test in 2 days but I wasted the whole day posting on 4chan. I am fucked. I can't teach myself u-substitution, integration by parts, and trig substitution in 2 days.

CS majors shouldn't have to take Calc 2. In the software industry I lost count of how much CS graduates we turned down due to their lack of experience. Now I realize why they were such shitty programmers. They were wasting their time doing other shitty classes.

>>7805482
I don't know, some licensing regulations is done by those boards. I'd think it will affect that. Probably not doctors and lawyers though.

Anyhow, so they fine you, and you don't pay. Then what? I wouldn't think the cops come bust up your place. They just sue you right? Before a court would enforce their judgment, now hopefully it might not?

>>7805704
>Now I realize why they were such shitty programmers
While true, CS grads are embarrassingly awful, taking calculus is not the problem.

>>7805354
Matter of fact: Every half-skilled mathematican or CS guy is capable of doing the same things as you + got respectice knowledge in their field.
Who do you think would get hired with the same portoflio? You or the math/phys/cs guy from Uni with a good portfolio you cuck?
Learning to code is no problem, especially if you are in some STEM related field. The other way around, getting the knowledge of those people in academic field is a lot harder.

>>7805377
I did math and CS for two years before I dropped the CS part and just finished with a Math+Stats honors degree.

It's more time-consuming than hard.

For one, being a math major is actually quite easy. You don't have to do anything except homework and tests. While the work gets abstract eventually you have so much time to learn it that you shouldn't have any issues.

CS, on the other hand, can be a lot of work, especially as you progress. Programming projects (which can get quite large and eventually will become group-based) aren't necessarily hard but they're long.

>>7805808

Didn't you have choice? CS/Math double major here, and 80% of my 3rd/4th year CS courses have had 0-10% of the work be programming. Most of it was just proofs/algorithms. Although I do agree that if you do more applied CS courses (closer to CE or SE) then you'll have more work, albeit less abstract than in a CS theory or pure math course.

>>7805704
I learned 2 semester Computer Architecture course in 6 days just 2 weeks ago for the exam, I'm sure 2 days for Calc 2 is enough.

>>7804506
>I am a purpose driven learner.
You are an idiot, the whole undergrad is not supposed to teach you something you apply, but to get you into the right way of thinking so you can learn the real parts. The purpose of learning calc 2 is that you learned calc2. If you only want to learn something with a direct purpose go to a trade school.

I'm in calculus III and passed calculus II with a B last semester. I crammed for most of the tests and did well on them (85% average) but I feel like I would have a tough time remembering all that. none of it was hard in my opinion, some problems were more difficult than others, but it was pretty straightforward. See, I'm a civil engineering major and the problem is my whole attitude towards these general education classes is just to pass them so I can move on to the specialized classes. Is this a good attitude to have? I felt that way about high school, too but in college it might be different. I know math builds on itself but after differential equations, I won't need to take another math class.